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The opposition view...

There is a smile on my face that has been missing. Winning was nice - as was ruining Wednesday night for the Arsenal - both are reasons to be a happy Yiddo. Redknapp's arrival is also very pleasing; you cant help but love the guy. Comments like 'I just told him (Pavlyuchenko) to 'run around a bit' will endear him to the masses in the manner of Martin Jol. Dumping our continental set up and hearing plans for the new stadium is also good news as we attempt to play catch up with the big boys. But pushing all that positive stuff aside, there is no better feeling for me than knowing we are getting to the opposition.

Following our comeback at the Emirates, Wenger tripped over himself in his attempts to salvage some dignity. Having previously stated that the 5-1 loss to Spurs was the combination of an inexperienced team and an insignificant cup competition, Wenger had laid his cards on the table. A victory in the next league game would confirm his superiority and would have given credibility to his views - so when Spurs fought back from two goals down, twice, at the Emirates, there was nowhere to hide and the excuses and bitter words started. Actually, the bitter words started earlier that week with Walcott stating that there was no Harry Redknapp factor, Adebayor promising revenge for the 'insignificant' 5-1 defeat and Fabregas suggesting that Arsenals ladies side would get a point out of us - thanks for the pre-match motivation lads.

Post match, Wenger suggested that Arsenal were 'two levels' above Spurs (whatever a level is measured in?) and that his side had out-played but got nothing for their efforts. If they were that good, then I don't accept his excuse that they are also too young and naďve. Arsenals team have played together long enough to form a feared, cohesive unit and you cannot suggest otherwise just because you were outfought. Simply put, Spurs played until the end.

In true 'beaten manager' style, Arsene also had the cheek to suggest that his team gifted Spurs all of their goals. I will accept that Clichy tripped over the ball for Jenas' and that Almunia should have held onto Hudd's effort before Bent struck; but Lennon's goal was instinctive after Modric hit the post and don't try to claim that a 40 yard volley is a gift. In fact, Arsene might want to recall his own shower of presents. His side's opening goal was the result of a blunder by Gomes and their 2nd came from a free kick that wasn't a foul; the third should have been put in row z before Adebayor bundled it over the line and the fourth was a through-ball by Hutton.

But for all the whining and hypocrisy, I enjoyed hearing it. We got to them - and it would appear that we got to Liverpool too.

Following our victory, Rafa said that 'Liverpool dominated for 90 minutes'; that the 'better team lost'; that 'Spurs were simply lucky' and that he 'couldn't understand how his team didn't win'.

1. You dominated us for 60 minutes before making two substitutions that suggested you thought the game was already won (much like a certain Frenchman earlier in the week). Spurs played well enough in the last 30 minutes to make a game of it, even if we didn't have the clear-cut chances that Liverpool had.

2. You might want to ask your opponents this season if they thought Liverpool were the better team in each of their victories. You will probably find that many opposing managers share your belief that the better team lost.

3. Spurs were lucky; see answer 2.. Being lucky is something Liverpool have made into an art form so far this year and if luck evens itself out over the course of a season then Saturday saw a little bit of balance restored.

4. You don't understand how your team didn't win? Its very simple - Spurs
scored more goals (sorry - childish, but I couldn't resist it!)

Dignity costs nothing - but thanks for failing to show it. Thank you Arsene - thank you Rafa; thank you both for completing my week.




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The journalist

Writer: Woodstaworld Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday November 3 2008

Time: 8:02AM

Your Comments

Couldn't give a flying feck what there opinions are on us to be honest. Anyway both the Arsecum and Liverscouse have more luck than anyone, so boo hoo. Cry me a river d i c k faces.
Real Deal
Couldn't give a flying feck what there opinions are on us to be honest. Anyway both the Arsecum and Liverscouse have more luck than anyone, so boo hoo. Cry me a river d i c k faces.
Real Deal
as was said, liverpool have been a mixture of luck and resilliance this season, so can hardly complain when theing dont go their way for once. wenger will never give the opposition credit, it simply isnt his way..
oxfordspur
as was said, liverpool have been a mixture of luck and resilliance this season, so can hardly complain when theing dont go their way for once. wenger will never give the opposition credit, it simply isnt his way..
oxfordspur
just looking at the pic of benitez at the top, he really is an ugly fecker isnt he, more suited to a quinten tarrentino film or the Sopranos than football...
oxfordspur
just looking at the pic of benitez at the top, he really is an ugly fecker isnt he, more suited to a quinten tarrentino film or the Sopranos than football...
oxfordspur
Both Wenger and Benitez are right, even if their comments reveal how unsporting they are. We were very lucky to get anything out of either game. Point taken that they have been lucky and us very unlucky earlier this season.
Shannon
Both Wenger and Benitez are right, even if their comments reveal how unsporting they are. We were very lucky to get anything out of either game. Point taken that they have been lucky and us very unlucky earlier this season.
Shannon
Egg on face. I dont know whose expression was more priceless, Rafa or Arsene's. Ever hear Wenger give his opposition the benefit of the doubt. He is just one excuse after the next. Liverpool should take a leaf from the Spurs book and get rid of their Spaniards, it worked for us!
marcspur
Egg on face. I dont know whose expression was more priceless, Rafa or Arsene's. Ever hear Wenger give his opposition the benefit of the doubt. He is just one excuse after the next. Liverpool should take a leaf from the Spurs book and get rid of their Spaniards, it worked for us!
marcspur
It’s the ungracious way in which they reacted to the draw and the defeat. Wenger has not taught his players to be generous in defeat and in victory. All this rubbish about being 2 levels above us and seeking revenge for the 5-1 drupping. Do you see winners like Chelsea and Man Utd getting involved in this crap, no of course not. They are professional sportsmen who have learnt how to win with dignity and lose gracefully. We of course expect this from Wenger, as he never has a good word to say about his opponents. He either “didn’t see it” – or they were hard done by. Wenger made mistakes on Wednesday substituting players to earlier. Admit it Wenger, people would respect you if you can admit you made a mistake. Arsenal forthcoming problems this season of winning nothing and finishing 5th or worst will not be down to the talent in their team but the immature attitude the players share with their manager.
deanospurs
It’s the ungracious way in which they reacted to the draw and the defeat. Wenger has not taught his players to be generous in defeat and in victory. All this rubbish about being 2 levels above us and seeking revenge for the 5-1 drupping. Do you see winners like Chelsea and Man Utd getting involved in this crap, no of course not. They are professional sportsmen who have learnt how to win with dignity and lose gracefully. We of course expect this from Wenger, as he never has a good word to say about his opponents. He either “didn’t see it” – or they were hard done by. Wenger made mistakes on Wednesday substituting players to earlier. Admit it Wenger, people would respect you if you can admit you made a mistake. Arsenal forthcoming problems this season of winning nothing and finishing 5th or worst will not be down to the talent in their team but the immature attitude the players share with their manager.
deanospurs
People having been saying how lucky we have been against both arse and liverpool, I was always told that you make your own luck and to a certain extent we have, harry has made positive subs and had the team attacking and taking shots up until the final whistle. To get two results like we have against two of the best teams in europe, some credit has to be given to our team.
function
People having been saying how lucky we have been against both arse and liverpool, I was always told that you make your own luck and to a certain extent we have, harry has made positive subs and had the team attacking and taking shots up until the final whistle. To get two results like we have against two of the best teams in europe, some credit has to be given to our team.
function
Chelsea and Man Utd lose gracefully, what a joke. Winners dont like losing. Every game the players of both chelsea and manu surround the ref if a decision does not go there way. Fergie is a awful loser, dont even get me started with the dignity bit after the disallowed mendes goal.
function
Chelsea and Man Utd lose gracefully, what a joke. Winners dont like losing. Every game the players of both chelsea and manu surround the ref if a decision does not go there way. Fergie is a awful loser, dont even get me started with the dignity bit after the disallowed mendes goal.
function
There are 2 undeniable truths about soccer (and most other sports). Luck plays a huge role, and comes in swings and roundabouts. We had none of it for the first 8 games of the season, while Liverpool had more than their fair share. The other is that the game is finished when the ref says so. Playing fantastci football for 60 minutes never won anything. I have heard it said that Spurs fans are arrogant, but the truth is that these other managers just make it so enjoyable to rub their noses in it. COYS!!
SA Fan
There are 2 undeniable truths about soccer (and most other sports). Luck plays a huge role, and comes in swings and roundabouts. We had none of it for the first 8 games of the season, while Liverpool had more than their fair share. The other is that the game is finished when the ref says so. Playing fantastci football for 60 minutes never won anything. I have heard it said that Spurs fans are arrogant, but the truth is that these other managers just make it so enjoyable to rub their noses in it. COYS!!
SA Fan
morning function, was glad to see spurs revert to 2 up front as i said they should. really cant see what modric brings. harry definately wants 4-4-2
BrownBoyYid
morning function, was glad to see spurs revert to 2 up front as i said they should. really cant see what modric brings. harry definately wants 4-4-2
BrownBoyYid
I think BBY you are right that 442 is the preferred formation of harry, what I said last week is that 451 is the formation that best suits the players we have at present. Modric certainly cannot play in a 442 and with only two main strikers if you discount campbell, it has to be the way to go from the start of games at the moment. If bent or Pav get injured we are screwed.
function
I think BBY you are right that 442 is the preferred formation of harry, what I said last week is that 451 is the formation that best suits the players we have at present. Modric certainly cannot play in a 442 and with only two main strikers if you discount campbell, it has to be the way to go from the start of games at the moment. If bent or Pav get injured we are screwed.
function
it would certainly be 4-5-1 for me at the moment, for several reasons, I think we should persavere with Luka in the hole as he has looked impressive there, we should forget about the fact he struggled to make serious impact against Liverpool, this was more about our back six, not being able to get the ball our of their own half. the other main issue is lack of alternative strikers, If Harry brings in another striker I can see us playing 4-4-2 more, but this would have to be at the expence of Modric, who is never a Left midfielder.
oxfordspur
it would certainly be 4-5-1 for me at the moment, for several reasons, I think we should persavere with Luka in the hole as he has looked impressive there, we should forget about the fact he struggled to make serious impact against Liverpool, this was more about our back six, not being able to get the ball our of their own half. the other main issue is lack of alternative strikers, If Harry brings in another striker I can see us playing 4-4-2 more, but this would have to be at the expence of Modric, who is never a Left midfielder.
oxfordspur
function: Of course Modric can play in a 4-4-2. He has done so all his life (except the last 6 months when Eduardo has been injured). But we need a good defensive player alongside him. Someone who can run (Jenas), play the ball to Modric and CB (Hudd), and tackle (missing). It sounds like a superplayer, but they do exist. Modric himself is pressing the opponent well, makes some smart passing that the others don't understand (like the sulby Bulgarian did in the beginning), and he can shoot from distance. 442 will be the best formation, but we need 1 player for that, a good DM. Maybe a striker too. LM is not necessary, we have Gio. Let him play!
NorwaYid
function: Of course Modric can play in a 4-4-2. He has done so all his life (except the last 6 months when Eduardo has been injured). But we need a good defensive player alongside him. Someone who can run (Jenas), play the ball to Modric and CB (Hudd), and tackle (missing). It sounds like a superplayer, but they do exist. Modric himself is pressing the opponent well, makes some smart passing that the others don't understand (like the sulby Bulgarian did in the beginning), and he can shoot from distance. 442 will be the best formation, but we need 1 player for that, a good DM. Maybe a striker too. LM is not necessary, we have Gio. Let him play!
NorwaYid
Lovely article, all we need now is someone to properly shove the linesmans flags up their bottoms!
Chappers
Lovely article, all we need now is someone to properly shove the linesmans flags up their bottoms!
Chappers
This quote in the Daily Express just made me chuckle. “Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez thought Redknapp had every reason to look a little coy when the pair shook hands after the full-time whistle had blown. We were so dominant, controlling the game and everything,” said Benitez. “It was a complete surprise to lose. It’s really difficult to explain how we could concede two goals and lose this game. Perhaps Harry should be a little bit embarrassed.” Is it not Liverpool and Benitez that should be embarrassed over there illegal approach that lead to Keane leaving Spurs
yidarmy07
This quote in the Daily Express just made me chuckle. “Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez thought Redknapp had every reason to look a little coy when the pair shook hands after the full-time whistle had blown. We were so dominant, controlling the game and everything,” said Benitez. “It was a complete surprise to lose. It’s really difficult to explain how we could concede two goals and lose this game. Perhaps Harry should be a little bit embarrassed.” Is it not Liverpool and Benitez that should be embarrassed over there illegal approach that lead to Keane leaving Spurs
yidarmy07
sorry lads still not convinced about modric and i dont think we should be changing the team just to accomodate him. he's good, but still keeps getting easily outmuscled in challenges. hopefully harry can either get him to adapt and play footy suitable for the team or sell him to juventus.
BrownBoyYid
sorry lads still not convinced about modric and i dont think we should be changing the team just to accomodate him. he's good, but still keeps getting easily outmuscled in challenges. hopefully harry can either get him to adapt and play footy suitable for the team or sell him to juventus.
BrownBoyYid
Actualy switching to the 4-4-2 played right into there hands and shoulda cost us the game. We simply didnt have the playing on the pitch or on the bench to play that formation. I realy like Modric. He looks a very skilled player but im not sure he will fit ito Redknapps prefered 4-4-2. I expect Harry will be bringing in players such as Diarra and a left sided player revert back to his 4-4-2. Bale should play at left back imo and stay there.
asherthesmasher
Actualy switching to the 4-4-2 played right into there hands and shoulda cost us the game. We simply didnt have the playing on the pitch or on the bench to play that formation. I realy like Modric. He looks a very skilled player but im not sure he will fit ito Redknapps prefered 4-4-2. I expect Harry will be bringing in players such as Diarra and a left sided player revert back to his 4-4-2. Bale should play at left back imo and stay there.
asherthesmasher
Sour grapes...that's all we get...Arse were lucky in the nld there first two goals came as gifts from the ref...and pool are finding out that you have to hit the back of the net, they miss tores...As for Moddy, I've never been a huge fan although he looks much better in the hole...an area that Gio also thrives (neither are LM!) Is he really good eneough to build our team around?
shedboy1
Sour grapes...that's all we get...Arse were lucky in the nld there first two goals came as gifts from the ref...and pool are finding out that you have to hit the back of the net, they miss tores...As for Moddy, I've never been a huge fan although he looks much better in the hole...an area that Gio also thrives (neither are LM!) Is he really good eneough to build our team around?
shedboy1
I thught we did get a draw against arsenal ladies judging by the Wenger tears when it didn't go there way
geb0649
I thught we did get a draw against arsenal ladies judging by the Wenger tears when it didn't go there way
geb0649
I think if you look at the 442 formation we played last year Keane almost played as midfielder dropping back to tackle defend etc and then create, last season manu played almost without a striker with either rooney or ronaldo breaking from deep to score goals, most prem teams either have a second striker who drops deep or play one up front with a midfielder who acts as a second striker eg lampard cahill etc. whether modric can do this role I dont know.
function
I think if you look at the 442 formation we played last year Keane almost played as midfielder dropping back to tackle defend etc and then create, last season manu played almost without a striker with either rooney or ronaldo breaking from deep to score goals, most prem teams either have a second striker who drops deep or play one up front with a midfielder who acts as a second striker eg lampard cahill etc. whether modric can do this role I dont know.
function
I have just been reading the slating that Bent has given Ramos. Two weeks ago Bent was proclaiming how good Ramos was, how he should be given the time to sort it all out, now Ramos has gone, Bent has not wasted any time putting the boot in. When are these overpaid prima donnas going to learn to keep their mouths shut. Whether ramos was good, bad, or indifferent, the players should not go spouting off to the press, instead they should let their performances on the field do their talking. I did not think much of Ramos as he could not motivate me to get out of bed, but I think less of the players who now that he has gone, start getting on their soap boxes to vilify him. I've said it many times before, the players act like spoilt children, and as such, should be seen and not heard.
denboy
I have just been reading the slating that Bent has given Ramos. Two weeks ago Bent was proclaiming how good Ramos was, how he should be given the time to sort it all out, now Ramos has gone, Bent has not wasted any time putting the boot in. When are these overpaid prima donnas going to learn to keep their mouths shut. Whether ramos was good, bad, or indifferent, the players should not go spouting off to the press, instead they should let their performances on the field do their talking. I did not think much of Ramos as he could not motivate me to get out of bed, but I think less of the players who now that he has gone, start getting on their soap boxes to vilify him. I've said it many times before, the players act like spoilt children, and as such, should be seen and not heard.
denboy
SAF- wtf is 'soccer' mate? is that a derivative of our game you play in your country?
believeinramos
SAF- wtf is 'soccer' mate? is that a derivative of our game you play in your country?
believeinramos
What Bent had to say about Ramos was bang on... was my feeling all along that the language barrier was the reason behind everything... and Bent confirmed that, is good to know what was going on... Now we have Harry in charge who clearly has got motivation in the team... he can even communicate with Pav "get him f***ing running around"... We may be 2nd from bottom... but we are also 2 wins away from 7th... Let the players air thier voices if the results are gonna keep coming, any information I get is a fan allows me to have educated conversations about what is going on in the dressing room.
DelboyYid
What Bent had to say about Ramos was bang on... was my feeling all along that the language barrier was the reason behind everything... and Bent confirmed that, is good to know what was going on... Now we have Harry in charge who clearly has got motivation in the team... he can even communicate with Pav "get him f***ing running around"... We may be 2nd from bottom... but we are also 2 wins away from 7th... Let the players air thier voices if the results are gonna keep coming, any information I get is a fan allows me to have educated conversations about what is going on in the dressing room.
DelboyYid
believeinramos - just trying to get you all speaking South African English so that when you pop over in 2010 you know what to ask for.
SA Fan
believeinramos - just trying to get you all speaking South African English so that when you pop over in 2010 you know what to ask for.
SA Fan
SAF- if that's the case, then keep the lessons coming mate! BTW, how's the support for Spurs in South Africa? Any good superstars in SA that 'Arry should know about?
believeinramos
SAF- if that's the case, then keep the lessons coming mate! BTW, how's the support for Spurs in South Africa? Any good superstars in SA that 'Arry should know about?
believeinramos
believeinramos - time for a name change - It happened to me as well - Regards (Deanokeano) of old
deanospurs
believeinramos - time for a name change - It happened to me as well - Regards (Deanokeano) of old
deanospurs
What Arse-faced Whinger fails to recognise is that Spurs were playing against Arsenal AND the referee. A fact that, if reversed, he would still be moaning about now! Also, conceeding 2 late goals due to arrogance and complacency does NOT make you two levels above the opposition.
The Voice Of Reason
What Arse-faced Whinger fails to recognise is that Spurs were playing against Arsenal AND the referee. A fact that, if reversed, he would still be moaning about now! Also, conceeding 2 late goals due to arrogance and complacency does NOT make you two levels above the opposition.
The Voice Of Reason
we were unlucky in one game (arsenal) and lucky in the other (pool). this has always been the nature of football. what has changed is our spirit and determination, the strength of which since harry arrived means we have deserved every point that has come our way. only 6 or so points from mid table, i'd like to be there by xmas!
spiderspurs
we were unlucky in one game (arsenal) and lucky in the other (pool). this has always been the nature of football. what has changed is our spirit and determination, the strength of which since harry arrived means we have deserved every point that has come our way. only 6 or so points from mid table, i'd like to be there by xmas!
spiderspurs
Wenger's ungraciousness on Saturday, "They played the game they wanted and they played it very well. At the end of the day, they could express their strong points and we could not. Stoke deserved to win." Perhaps research articles and comments slightly better.
Little Dutch
Wenger's ungraciousness on Saturday, "They played the game they wanted and they played it very well. At the end of the day, they could express their strong points and we could not. Stoke deserved to win." Perhaps research articles and comments slightly better.
Little Dutch
"In true 'beaten manager' style, Arsene also had the cheek to suggest that his team gifted Spurs all of their goals." Wenger did not say anything of the sort, he criticised us for not chasing a fifth when we were 4-2 up, he made no mention of gifting you goals. You're probably thinking of Arsenal supporters you have been speaking to.
Little Dutch
"In true 'beaten manager' style, Arsene also had the cheek to suggest that his team gifted Spurs all of their goals." Wenger did not say anything of the sort, he criticised us for not chasing a fifth when we were 4-2 up, he made no mention of gifting you goals. You're probably thinking of Arsenal supporters you have been speaking to.
Little Dutch
its what happens when you enter a game believing you've already won it. The slightest alteration to the planned outcome can completely change the way a team thinks. If you think you are going to win, but you concede, either to lose a lead or go behind, you then have a large obsticle in your way that you were not prepared for. As soon as we bagged the equaliser, we looked much more comfortable and liverpool began to panic.
Dave the Yid
its what happens when you enter a game believing you've already won it. The slightest alteration to the planned outcome can completely change the way a team thinks. If you think you are going to win, but you concede, either to lose a lead or go behind, you then have a large obsticle in your way that you were not prepared for. As soon as we bagged the equaliser, we looked much more comfortable and liverpool began to panic.
Dave the Yid
Lovely article. Enjoyed reading Arsene and Tubby being crucified!
JT_daniel
Lovely article. Enjoyed reading Arsene and Tubby being crucified!
JT_daniel
No sign of Puregold or the other gooners today - They must be in hiding! What added significantly to my weekend was A***nal getting turned over by Rory Delap and the mighty Stoke City (I got 15/2 on the Stoke win). Lovely!!! - And what about Van Persie? What a mug? LOL!!!
ParkLane67
No sign of Puregold or the other gooners today - They must be in hiding! What added significantly to my weekend was A***nal getting turned over by Rory Delap and the mighty Stoke City (I got 15/2 on the Stoke win). Lovely!!! - And what about Van Persie? What a mug? LOL!!!
ParkLane67
van persie was totally out of order an got what he deserved, rory delap is going straight in to my dream team, 7 assists. nice article an very true, all in hiding id say typically
123spurs
van persie was totally out of order an got what he deserved, rory delap is going straight in to my dream team, 7 assists. nice article an very true, all in hiding id say typically
123spurs
believeinramos - plenty of Spurs supports down here. Tell Arry to take a look at Teko Modise, a midfielder, and we all know we could do with some of them. Capped for SA 22 times and this years SA player of the year. The other good news is that looking at the exchange rate, your trip out here in 2010 should only cost you about 10 quid, 20 if you want to holiday like a king!
SA Fan
believeinramos - plenty of Spurs supports down here. Tell Arry to take a look at Teko Modise, a midfielder, and we all know we could do with some of them. Capped for SA 22 times and this years SA player of the year. The other good news is that looking at the exchange rate, your trip out here in 2010 should only cost you about 10 quid, 20 if you want to holiday like a king!
SA Fan
20 quid. I'm on my way :-) lol!!
Big Mikey G
20 quid. I'm on my way :-) lol!!
Big Mikey G
BMG - its not far off the truth if you consider that at a 18:1 exchange rate, a slap up sea food dinner with a bottle of SA's best wine costs about 5 quid a person, a flight from Johannesburg to Cape Town costs about 25 quid and a beer at a local pub about 50p. Add to that about 300 days sunshine a year, fantastic beaches, great wine farms, top restaurants, wonderful golf courses and some of the most beautiful woman in the world, and all you Sours fans should be heading over. Even Arry, so I can thank him in person!
SA Fan
BMG - its not far off the truth if you consider that at a 18:1 exchange rate, a slap up sea food dinner with a bottle of SA's best wine costs about 5 quid a person, a flight from Johannesburg to Cape Town costs about 25 quid and a beer at a local pub about 50p. Add to that about 300 days sunshine a year, fantastic beaches, great wine farms, top restaurants, wonderful golf courses and some of the most beautiful woman in the world, and all you Sours fans should be heading over. Even Arry, so I can thank him in person!
SA Fan
 

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