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Dont Panic!!

Okay, so we have lost three on the bounce and have just played our worst game of the season. Question is should we panic or keep a calm and considered head?

It might well be that Hugo Lloris should have started. Perhaps we should have played Adebayor with or instead of Jermain Defoe and certainly considered partnering them together when we needed to recover yesterday. Equally, has Lloris really looked so much better than Friedel on the pitch and also in training? What do the trusted defenders currently prefer? Has AVB had a quiet word over how they prefer to play and therefore based his selection of simple team harmony and feeling? Sure we have our preferences, but are these selections really that black and white?

What is very obvious is that we are seriously short in several key areas right through the pitch, even if the keeper isn't one of them. In defence, we have six fit defenders, in Walker, Naughton, Gallas, Vertonghen, Dawson and Caulker for four places. With Gallas only seeming to be fit for one game a week and Dawson looking ever more likely for the exit door in January, we hardly have too many options to make radical or even minor changes. Perhaps with the returns of Kaboul and BAE we will have that opportunity, but until then, we are stuffed.

Without, Parker, Dembele, Sandro and Livermore yesterday, what did we really expect? Hudd has played well in my opinion, but he needs pace and drive alongside him, and all of those senior options were missing. Could he has pushed Vertonghen into midfield and added Naughton to Left Back? I will leave you to debate that one, but if hardly worked at Norwich in midweek did it. It did cross my mind that we could have changed to a 4-3-3 with Sigurdsson and Bale protecting a deep sitting Hudd, but would we have been any better off against a Wigan side that grew in confidence by the minute. Just an addition, what chance a recall for Jermaine jenas, should the prognosis on Sandro and Dembele not be good?

Sure we could have partnered Defoe and Adebayor in a 4-4-2, but when the middle four were unable to supply decent, if any ball to one striker, would they have done better with two and more defensive duties to cover? Dempsey and Adebayor, also offered greater physical stature than little Jermain. Facts are that if your midfield engine isn't firing, you are probably going to revert to playing wide or going route one, so did AVB really make a mess of his substitution's when the midfield was failing and he had so few options at his disposal?

It wasn't so long ago, that fans were glad to be rid of Harry and were happy to embrace Villas-Boas. Equally a season of development was the order of the day and Champions league football could wait a little longer, as we were looking at the long term not instant turnaround. After ten Prem games, have things really changed for the worst to an extent where we are already talking about a clueless manager and useless players?

What we need is to keep our own nerves and back the team in a time of transition that seemingly the majority wanted. We know we are short of several key players and that might well be the case until the new year, but we also know that we didn't bring in the likes of Moutinho or Willian, who were suggested as being key to AVB's tactical master plan. Instead we have brought in good quality, but hardly game winning players into the team such as Dempsey, Sigurdsson and a previously unwanted Huddlestone, who perhaps are fine for our squad, but are they really players to add creativity and enough quality to make us better than we currently are?

Lets do what we were born to do and that is support our club in a time of transition. Lets back our players and manager to get things right and lets pray that our Chairman has the time, money and all his persuasive powers fully charged to bring AVB the players that he feels can take us in the direction we need to be heading and then give him the rest of the season to get them to gel into something exciting regardless of where it takes us this season. I assume we are too good to get relegated, so lets enjoy the developments for all the bumps and bruises that are sure to be inflicted in the way...




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Sunday November 4 2012

Time: 12:02PM

Your Comments

Famous last words, don't panick Mr Mannering!
ItalianYiddo
panick?
ItalianYiddo
we seemed to be going back he ways.the performance's should be getting better game by game not looking like a headless chicken run about.worried a little.excuses don't rub,sick hearing them year after year.
bazdog
No need to panic if we have a plan to turn things around. From what I have seen so far this season we are not capable of challenging for 3rd 2nd or 1st . We are in a group that could get 4th 5th 6th or 7th. AVB must be given a chance to prove himself, If he can't then drastic measures will need to be taken. AVB has been unlucky in as much as injuries have weakened the squad also it is not his fault we didn't get back up in the transfer window that is the fault of the chairman. Both of them have the next 2-3 months to put thing right. So don't panic yet!!!!!!!!!!
4everaspur
I was hoping for a Mourhino style start from AVB where the performances may not have been exciting but a winning mentality was created from the start in particular at WHL. Unfortunately I have been surprised at how easily this Spurs side can be beaten and I'm disappointed that AVB is not better tactically; several times this season I hoped that we would simply out play the opposition I.e WestBrom, Norwich, Wigan... And in the event it wasn't going to plan AVB would bring something that HR couldn't - that being some tactics to grind out a result but that hasn't been the case and I think like many fans were not panicking we're simply disappointed. We can say there's been injuries, we can say we've lost Modric, we can blame the Chairman for not backing AVB in the transfer market but when we lose to Wigan at home off the back of losing to Norwich we have to be concerned.
MrSpurs
no need to panic about the performance, we do this once every season at home, we are spurs, this is what we do. what we do need to panic about the atmosphere at the lane. It is no coincidence that our away performances have been so much better this season, where our top notch away support has BACKED THE TEAM. Sick of the self-entitled consumers who are not supporters at the lane. the lane, outside pockets of the park lane the lane was a LIBRARY yesterday. we need to sort it out.
wiltshirespur
bet you any money and knowing our luck, once we sell dawson in january caulker and gallas will get injured!
COYS_TSB
Hopefully Gallas is injured now!!!
woodyn17
Let's put a little perspective on the situation.

We lose away at Newcastle 0 points, we beat West Brom, 3 point, we beat Norwich 3 points, we draw away at Reading 1 point, we beat QPR 3 points, we lose at Man U 0 points, we beat Villa 3 points, we draw with Chelsea 1 point, we draw away at the Dell 1 point, we beat Wigan 3 points. Total points 18 points.

How many of you would have not taken the above scenario with a new manager and the loss of four of our most influential players at before the start of the season? Actual points on the board 17. Start supporting your team at home, without your negativity and with your support we may have done better. COYS
ItalianYiddo
First, what chairman sacks the most successful manager we've had in years and replaces him with a proven Premier League flop? Second, what manager persists with a system he hasn't got the players for instead of playing them to their strengths and in a system they are familiar with? Forget Old Trafford and the other wins this season because we were made to look good in almost all of them. MU didn't show up in the first half, QPR were unlucky and Saints nearly came back in the second half. Unless we sack AVB, or he uses players to their strengths (Lennon and Bale on the flanks, Defoe playing off Adebayor, for instance), the signs are beginning to show that we'll return to being a mediocre mid-table club.
hiano
Gallas is already injured, he has right hamstring problems, only the gaffer tape keeps him going, strap it up and i will be ok, NO your not ok, Friedel may have mashed up the attempted corner, he could have turned it over the bar, but when it did drop, watch again who scored and Gallas was standing behind him, not in front of him. How many years has football been played, how many of you guys play football, i bet you always have a player on each goal post when a corner is taken against you? Proven fact a man on the line will stop a lot more go in. Still this is modern day and that just does not happen in football any more, yeah right. PANIC, no just take every win as a bonus.
spu 4 life
hiano right so basically we ignore everything he's done right because... well why exactly? and focus entirely on what he's done wrong, despite him winning away at United and having won 3 more away games than we did in the first half of 2012 under redknapp. The problem is the poisonous atmosphere at the lane. Go and read BAE's tweets over the last few hours on the subject.
wiltshirespur
A team that is within reach of winning against a multi-million Chelsea side without their best two players is now suddenly terrible. Bad day all round yesterday, but come on we are 5th without being able to field our strongest side yet. Surely not all Spurs fans are Sun readers? Please not. COYS
ItalianYiddo
I'm panicking - we haven't played well in any of our home games - certainly compared to most of our home games of last season. Defoe, Dempsey and Sigurdsson are all players that are pretty anonymous unless they score. There is no doubt that injuries are having a big impact on the team but after selling Modric and VDV the team lacks class and the killer pass from midfield - and we still need a goalscorer who can lead the line - we haven't had one since Berbatov was sold 4 years ago. I didn't always agree with Redknapp but he knew what he wanted from the players and the team and the players responded - I like AVB but he got the Chelsea and Spurs jobs on the back of one season with Porto - he seems unwilling or unable to change his methods for home games which are patently not working, I also think he is loosing the dressing room. A year ago everything looked great - now the storm clouds are gathering over the Lane again - this seems to be a familar syory of being a Spurs fan. I wan't AVB to be a success but just can't see it happening. COYS
tottenhamtony
F*ck BAE's tweets. He's a highly paid player and if he doesn't like it when fans express their opinions, then find something else to do. As for all this panic nonsense, fans don't 'panic' about football. They react badly when they are paying a sizeable sum to watch players who frankly, don't deserve the money they are getting. And that goes for management too. Fans panic when they can't pay their mortgage, or are having their homes repossessed, or any of the other myriad stresses of modern life, that, incidentally, are way beyond the understanding of footballers, who display their vulgar trashy lifestyles all over the place, and treat supporters with contempt. Get some fricking perspective; fans do not do 'long term goals', 'transition periods' '5 year plans' and all the other guff. They turn up on a Saturday to be expensively entertained, as some respite from their daily drudge, and if these gits don't do it for them, then give them clog and let them know. After all, they happily accept all the acclaim the rest of the time, on and off the pitch.
lordjohnny
the system AVB is playing seems to work well in away games but at home we need two strikers.My concern is this bloke is going to be stubborn and persist in a home line up which does not work. You can play Defoe in two or three games but then diminishing retuns will set in and he has to be taken out again. Levy is to blame here. We have not had a good striker combination since Berbatov and Keane. Football is about putting the ball in the net and we need a consistent goalscorer to play with Adebayor. We have two away matches coming up and this may work to our advantage.I fear the bigger picture is that AVB at age 35 does not have sufficient experience to manage a club as difficult as Tottenham and I mean the Directors and supporters here. Anyway I am sure AVB will get a season to show if he can adapt and at least at the moment I am happy with the away performances.
cynicspur
Considering we have lost our best players in the summer, our 1st team is decimated by injuries and we are adapting to a new manager, system and methods, we are about where i'd expect after 10 games. Doing ok, not great, but ok. As i said when AVB was appointed our BIGGEST risk is a large section of the home 'support'who never took to AVB from the start and it appears want him to fail. Brainless, but what can you do? The atmosphere at home is shocking, quiet at best, booing the team at worst. Christ knows what our new recruits think. I don't think fans realise the effect they have, (i don't care how little money we have or how much they have - who cares? this is football) its no surprise to me that in front of our magnificent away support we are playing much, much better.
StillRickyVilla
I was there yesterday and, yes, the atmosphere was poor but it surely cannot be blamed for the desperately poor performance on the pitch. From the first minute they were out of sorts and there really were very few redeeming features. Tell me what other club's supporters would have cheered the team on through such a shambles. Funds don't mind quite so much if the players appear to be giving their all - sometimes you just get outplayed - but there was no leadership, no oomph, no passion. Listen to Friedel's MoTD interview; he knows they were rank and I'm sure the others do, too. Blaming the fans is a major cop out. They need to come in tomorrow, sort out their heads and make sure they put things right in the next three games. Both Maribor and Arsenal are fallible and no reason why we can't pressurise City as we did at Old Trafford. They are not the same team they were last season, at least not yet, so we have to show some balls and go for it. COYS
KingGlenn
Fans, not funds, obviously. Does predictive test have a sense of humour?
KingGlenn
2 things you got wrong in your apologetic speech: 1. Yes, the Wigan game might be the worst although when we played Norwich at WHL it was equally atrocious. To be honest it was just as bad as yesterday. Another home game. Talk about pattern here rather than "one bad day in the office". 2. Yes, some of us wanted to get rid of Harry but we didn't necessarily want him to be replaced with AVB. I thought (and still do) it was a mistake of the same proportion. As someone correctly pointed out here the win at OT has hidden our genuine problems. It's amazing how all our games were played under the same scenario: we score and then hold on to that and get battered. With luck we survive. But more realistically we either draw (like Norwich/WBA at home) or lose (Norwich - League Cup). Yesterday was so bad we didn't even manage to score. Now where we share kind of the same view about the current Tottenham team and its manager is that you indirectly admit that fans should be prepared for the mid table position in the end. Can't argue with that. The difference is we know it.
Moscovite
I do think AVB has to make some changes to trigger a change from the lastfew games. I really think Gallas has to be hooked, injury or not. He was responsible for three goals vs Chelsea and was awful yesterday. Play Jan and Caulker in the middle, then Naughton if not BAE on the left. Huddlestone is not up to it right now and Dempsey looks slow. Play a midfield four at home with Sandro and Gylfi (in Dembele's absence), Lennon and Bale flanking and Ade and jermain upfront. Personally I'd play Ade and Jermain on Thursday to give them time to tune up for next Sunday.
KingGlenn
The most magnificent thing about supporting a football team is that you REALLY have an impact, a part to play. You can turn the tide of an entire match with a rousing "COYS, COYS, COYS". You see it in the players, they suddenly get an extra 10-20% and the entire match can change. Its why playing at home SHOULD be an advantage. At the moment, we are having the opposite effect - the poisonous, quiet, negative atmosphere is like tying weights to the players legs. Doesn't matter how much money they have or haven't got - when you strip it down its still 11 emotional human beings running around a grass pitch trying to score goals. Those who want to boo and criticise at games, you carry on but believe this you ARE having a massively negative effect on the team.
StillRickyVilla
lordjohnny dont give me that consumer crap. we are supporters, we support the team, not wait for them to play well. Supporters don't go to games to be 'expensively entertained' they go to games to SUPPORT THE BLOODY TEAM and to sing their hearts out regardless of how the teams playing. Yeah we pay a lot of money, why not make bloody use of it even though the team isn't playing well??? I don't understand people who pay a lot of money to sit there quietly and moan and whine and boo! make your own enjoyment and get the atmosphere going and maybe, just maybe, the team might play better because they are being supported!!! Its not about how you feel about the footballers, the fact is, they play better when the crowd is behind them, we know that from the ridiculously skewed results between home and away form. Support, and particularly home support, can make the difference between a good performance and a bad one, look at stoke at home, terrific atmosphere, and how tough they are to beat at home. Our home atmosphere has been terrible, our performances have been terrible at home, and there is a correlation.
wiltshirespur
I think the Man Utd victory had a larger impact on the supporters than it did on the players. People forgot that our squad isnt actually that great, they forgot we only have 2 strikers of which 1 has been unfit most of the season. We have no cover for Bale or Lennon. If either are off form, or injured, we have nothing from the bench to replace them with. After the Man U game, expectations rose, but the quality of the squad did not. Im sticking with my pre season view, that this squad is not top 4 material. Arsenal and Man City away coming up, our midfield combo could be Thudd and Livermore!
Guyver
lordjohnny's spot on, and StillRickyVilla, the fans are the most important people. If the new recruits think what the fans want them to think then that is all that matters. On Saturday's showing, the message was - if you don't like being booed, then you better buck up. Anyone who doesn't get that message doesn't deserve to play for Spurs.
hiano
Guyver, just out of curiosity: if our squad is not top 4 material then which is? Arsenal? Everton? Liverpool perhaps? Who do you genuinely expect to finish 4th this season?
Moscovite
I do not go along with the proposition that AVB must be allowed to buy players who will fit in with his philosophy of one striker up front at home.The players he has apart from the chronic requirement for a goalscorer are excellent and will perform when played in a formation that will maximise their strengths. AVB is aware I am sure that it is easier to sack the manager than change a perfectly good set of players. Having said all that we do have serious injury problems and in fact our best players are out ,but we struggled at home even when they were all present. That is why I feel his formations at home are the problem.
cynicspur
hiano, well if you think the best way to get the best out of people is to whine, criticise and moan at them well i just hope your not in business mate!!
StillRickyVilla
Probably Arsenal, when was the last time they finished outside of the top 4? If we had no injuries throughout the entire season we'd have a chance, but thats not how football works.
Guyver
I wouldn't want to play football at the lane currently, whatever money you gave me, this is coming from someone who loves the club so how can you expect mercenary footballers to? The Lane poisonous and sickly and I'm fed up of people supporting our appauling atmosphere, we played a lot worse a few years ago and the atmosphere was far better.
wiltshirespur
Wilthire, absolutely. The modern prawn-sandwich brigade, sit back and entertain me please. If i'm not instantly entertained i'm going to moan and groan at you. I've paid my money don't you know? Now ENTERTAIN me! Skysports and the PL have done that to our sport. Its why i go to more away games than home games now, you get amongst the proper support and you feel part of the club once again.
StillRickyVilla
I hope AVB learn from his mistakes by his team selection and subsituitions, I will be very disappointed if he make the same mistake again.
what_sux
again there seems to be 2 schools of thought on this one:1.'come rain or shine i will sing my heart out til i'm hoarse because this is my team regardless.'how many managers have said that the fans are the 12th man and can really lift the team?how many times have managers said 'the fans were terrific and really gave us a boost'?.............2.'i paid my money so go out there and win every game or at least look like you will win every game.sing when we're winning?your damn right!'the players are on ridiculous money,so perform............it's a very sad that at the moment we seem to be of the latter at our home games as our home fans never used to have that mentality.
g. roberts testes
There is NEVER, EVER, a right to boo your own team. Absolutely disgraceful fans, if that's what they were, which I highly doubt, real Spurs fans have much more class and intelligence than that. There's never ever ever an excuse for booing our own squad, period, the end.
tengboon
Fans pay good money so watching inept performances so many times this season is going to cause a reaction. AVB'S tactics are bewildering at times but were still in 5th with many key injuries, new system and losing our 3 best players in the summer. Levy and other board members who make decisions are the ones to blame. Replacing VDV and Modric with Siggy and Dempsey was always going to be a step back. With have a coach who has contacts in various parts of south america and all over europe and we buy an icelandic half a season wonder and a last minute desperate buy for an average american. Im not saying break the bank with high wages for the worlds best players, but surley those 2 players would not of been high up on AVB'S list especially as his scouting network is very impressive.
spurfect one
Guyver, Arsenal no longer have RVP who carried them into top 4 last year in a single handed manner. How can they be a top 4 material or better than current Spurs team I wonder?
Moscovite
I will say that AVB seems hell bent on retaining shape and formation regardless of opposition. He seems to avoid 4-4-2 like the plague, when in fact in since Dembele's been out, 4-4-2 would have taken pressure off our defensive midfield, giving our healthy width )Lennon, Bale) much needed options. I think to get thru this injury crisis, AVB should have it in his locker to change up from a 4-2-3-1, especially last night.
tengboon
Ah well, I forgot they have got Wenger...
Moscovite
just reading through some of the 'tottenham v wigan' posts, some one wrote "it's the same across the entertainment industry".so if you go to the cinema or to watch a play and it didn't live up to expectations,do you boo?....who boo's after watching a crap movie?
g. roberts testes
its not as though the players don't know they are playing badly is it? they know losing to Wigan is atrocious, we don't need to remind them that. All we need to do is remind them that we will be with them through thick and thin and that we trust them on the field.
wiltshirespur
Plus can anyone think of any other club that has more senior Goalkeepers then Strikers? Our squad is so unbalanced. Hardley any quality cover for the wings yet an array of Midfielders who are similar in there style apart from Dembele. Major sugery needed to get the balance right.
spurfect one
We can troll out all the exuses we like, but let's look at the reality of the situation. In all competitions we have P15, W6, D5, L4. At home we have P7, W2, D3, L2. Away P8, W4, D2, L2. We are not yet through November and we have already dropped 10 out of 18 points in the PL a home. We have so far had the easiest start to a PL season in terms of fixtures for years, having already played the teams who were in the bottom 6 in our first 10 games. We have struggled in a soft group in the EL, and we have been dumped from the CC by a Norwich team showing 10 changes from their previous PL game, even in the games we have won, with the exception of the Villa game, we have scraped home, often more by luck than judgement. Yes we are 5th, I should think we are, given our fixtures, we should really be pushing the top 3, lets see where we are after our next 6 PL games v Man City, Arsenal, W.Ham,Liverpool, Fulham, and Everton. It's all very well to say "don't panic", but if things are not addressed, and significantly improved soon, we are in for a long hard season. Yes we have injuries but the players that are actually playing seem lack lustre and AVB's selections, substitutions, and tactics, seem baffling at times, not least to the players, who at times look lost, as though they don't understand what they are supposed to be doing, so sooner or later even the incurable optomists will have to pull their head out of the sand, and realise things are not exactly going to plan. It's all very well to pretend that there isn't a problem until Easter, but by then it is too late. The stats speak for themselves, they don't lie.
Frank
Look wiltshirespur, it is not for you or anybody else to tell other people how they should react. We are not flaming automatons. We don't just turn up and boo. At the start of games there is nothing but positivity. The reason they boo is a reaction to the events occurring on the pitch. There cannot and should not be a default emotion, one of simply cheering and clapping whatever the situation. If you want that, go and watch North Korea's Premier League. As for the consumer crap, well clubs for too long have played on the weakness of being a fan as you cannot, unless you are David Mellor, start supporting someone else, and they bloody well know it, and take advantage of it, and the fans. They'll always call us their supporters, but in reality we are consumers, but consumers with no choice. So it ain't crap. Trying to shut down dissent by calling it disloyalty is more egregious ****. However, given the way civil liberties are going, what with people arrested and sent to prison for calling people names these days, you may get your wish sometime soon, and there'll be signs up at WHL stating anyone who boos will be ejected.
lordjohnny
I think we need to panic a bit. We have been awful at home and all season long we have not played for more than 45 minute spells in games. On paper apart from Chelsea at home, all our other home games this season should have been 3 pointers. Yet in most of this games we have been lucky to get one point out of them. The chairman stitched up AVB to start with and Verts and Dembele, the rest of the signings have proved to be shockers. Ade needs to be a starter but needs to be match fit and Lloris needs games before either player can be judged, but Siggy and Dempsey look so far out of their depth it is not funny. So many of the recent signings have proved to be wide of the mark it is not funny. Who is responsible for signing this players. If it is Levy he needs to stand aside and get someone else in. Do we even have a chief scout now. The boos ringing round the lane are just, but more need to be directed at the board and chairman. AVB does not have a clue and I think our next home game he will be under real pressure as the way we are playing at the moment I can not see us beating Arsenal or City. At least both are away games. Yes it is a blow losing Kaboul, Benny, Parker, Dembele, etc but we were always being left short with so many players being sold recently. We need to be more positive at home and should have played two up top.
nothappyharry
@ spurfect, I accept your GK/Striker comment, but is that because we simply cant get rid of what we have due to the amount of cash we want or what they are currently earning. Who can comfortably afford Gomes, when he is on hefty wages and the club also want to recoup a good % of what the paid, whilst we know that both Friedel and Cudicini could or should be in their last seasons
oxfordspur
Lordjohnny, at the start of last nights game, you could hear a pin drop. Someone mentioned about loads of corporate tickets have been dished out by our board to the north London area, contract bonuses etc., so it seems that who knows how many non-fans are at the Lane, and of course there you have the boo boys. Maybe this is something that needs looking into
tengboon
i can understand the booing in certain circumstances but not after 10 league games and a couple of cup matches.thats what blackburn did and look what happened to them...if/when we get all our players back to match fitness,we don't get a few new signings in january,(which we clearly need),if bale leaves for real madrid in the summer and we don't replace him,if we're not playing to our new found potential,(remember where we were not too long ago....and no booing?),if/but etc...then maybe we have a right to boo...maybe...but maybe i'm just getting old...maybe?
g. roberts testes
And sorry, but I can't remember any time in the last 10 years that suddenly we deserve to be booed off the field at half. It's embarrassing on so many levels, and now I have to troll through every frickin media outlet that has pointed out the same thing. IT'S NOT WHAT FANS DO, we're not the fecking classless goons, ARE we!!!
tengboon
*sorry in there somewhere i was supposed to add "and we are still not playing well"...thought process was faster than my typing.
g. roberts testes
g. roberts testes, very good point on Blackburn's brilliant achievement last season, spurred on by the own fans booing!
ItalianYiddo
I have to read articles like this, which I thought were reserved for league 2 teams, or Emirates.....what the hell is going on at the Lane!!! http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/white-hart-lanes-rancid-atmosphere-needs-immediate-improvement/?
tengboon
Anyway where is the MOTM poll, so many candidates to choose from....still trying to decide
ItalianYiddo
Feel free to hurl tomatoes at your flatscreen if you don't approve of AVB's tactics, but if I was Wigan last night, away from home in the so-called fortress they call White Hart Lane, those boos would have added so much energy and confidence. Fans at home turf have a responsibility as the 12th man, I don't care how much you dished out. It's not stand-up comedy, it's your fecking TEAM for feck sakes!!! #vexedanddone
tengboon
Frank, we know its tough. For all the reasons stated over and over again (injuries to key players, modric/vdv sales, new manager/system etc etc). We knew it was going to be tough and it IS tough! We were NEVER going to IMMEDIATELY blow teams away like when we had King, Modric, Parker, VDV, a fit Ade running through the spine of the team. I don't know what people expected. We are where we are, rightly or wrongly. Now we have a choice - give the new regime our FULL support at games for a MINIMUM of a season (i would give them 3 seasons), look at the bigger picture and help to create a winning atmosphere. Or just say phuck Spurs and create a poisonous atmosphere conducive to one thing and one thing only - downwards and AVB being fired. Its a simple choice, my problem is there are too many morons at WHL on matchday choosing the latter.
StillRickyVilla
italianyiddo....i'm not saying 'blame the fans' but blackburn fans used to boo when they played well and lost.hardly a confidence builder is it....and in all walks and situations in life we do all fell better about ourselves if our confidence is up.say what you will about harry but when he was fully on board was very good at this....no i don't want him back.
g. roberts testes
Blackburn's demisewas brought about by players under performing, a manager who was clueless, and owners who didn't understand the vagaries of owning and running a footall club. Bloody hell I have just described Spurs at the moment without realising it.
Frank
The fans have been the 12th man this season, for the opposition. Just a coincidence that we are better away?
ItalianYiddo
LJ sorry, there has been positivity at the beginnings of games at the lane this season??? I haven't seen it! and I've been to almost every game! The difference between our fans at the Newcastle game and our fans at the west brom game the week after was staggering, the lane is a library currently, and you people are supporting it??? The booing would be fine if the fans had been performing up to par for the rest of the game, but the people booing seem to show no positive support whatsoever, and delight in booing their own team. We do NOT have to force people to show passion for their team, our away fans week in week out show that there are large number of fans who want to SUPPORT their team, not to hinder it. If someone is harming the teams performance and confidence, then in my opinion, they are not true supporters, that is my opinion and I'm sorry if you do not agree. The atmosphere at the Lane is dying and something has to be done, you can sit and accept it but I will not.
wiltshirespur
Blimey, Blackburn went down because of their fans. That's a relief for the players then. And, all you posters on here who are giving critics a hard time, I thought you only had one reaction, and that was clapping and cheering? Surely it is axiomatic to big us up as well, as we are part of it all. Think how wrong-footed that would make us, if you cheered the booers. I'd love to be in your world, of endless positivism, irrespective of the reality. By the way, the panto season's coming up, so if I'm not mistaken, when there's whooping and clapping when the Wicked Witch comes on stage, I'll know who it is.
lordjohnny
frank...did booing help?
g. roberts testes
exactly italianyiddo.
wiltshirespur
spurfect- i get the impression levy looked at AVBs list, said "yea right" and threw it in the bin. this window will show how much ambition ENIC have.We know what positions need strengthening. will levy. im not so sure.
topspur53
*sorry...does
g. roberts testes
Agree frank,the problems need addressed now.10 games in and the players are still lost.tought by now the players would know their jobs and positions but unfortunately this does not seemed to be happening!the players are really starting to look like headless chickens more and more.the opposing manager in our dug out we would have won this game.sack avb?
Little spur
its not positivity LordJohnny, it is traditional, old fashioned support, there is a difference. I am among the most cynical of spurs fans, I am negative at the best of times, but a football match is a unique and special occasion full of atmosphere and passion but expectation and lack of support are ruining that at the Lane. Look, the fact is, support is good for the team, booing is bad and destroys confidence, harming the teams performance - therefore it is bad and I am vehemently against it being done by so called 'supporters' of our club.
wiltshirespur
Is this what some of you meant at the start of theseason about having to go backwards, before we go forward, how far backwards did you have in mind. We must be the only club in football to decide that having finished 4th, 5th, and 4th, we had better have a seed change and have a go at finishing 10th, 11th or 12th, and to assist in that, we will sack our maager, sell our best players, and appoint a dodgy coach, who had got the hard word after about 5 minutes from his only other PL job, and to make sure we avoid buying any players likely to improve the team. It is a fact we are so lucky to have Daniel Levy, who I am reminded is not a bean counter, as I have been wrongly describing him, my mistake. Apparently his degree is in land management, so presumably he is a gardener.
Frank
The bottom line is the fans DO have a MASSIVE impact on the performance of the team. If people think moaning, criticising, booing the players during the game is HELPING the cause they need a mental check-up. People also need their head examining if they think creating a fantastic, intimidating wall of noise at WHL doesn't motivate the players to play above themselves. Its just human nature.
StillRickyVilla
Frank, i agree with you re.ENIC but get a grip! Don't start this rose-glinted view of the HR era. I won't even go into all the well-versed long-term problems he was taking us down. This season we have a team hot-potched together because of injuries and player sales & downgrades (FFS our central midfield is now Hudd and Siggy - last year it was Modric and Parker!) - HR would be faring no better with this team. At least AVB has a long-term plan (not that he'll be allowed to carry it out mind).
StillRickyVilla
We also had an atmosphere that would intimidate the opposition, wasnt quite Galatasary level, but it was solid support. Not sure what's happened this season, but when its dead before the match has even started, its a little worrying. Before the match against Wigan i thought there was a minute silence for an old Spurs legend who'd passed away, it was so quiet.
Guyver
Not having been to WHL since the days of 54,000 gates when your feet might not even touch the ground on the shelf - I feel loathe to criticise those who do make the effort to go and spend their hard earned cash for the club. But I can't ever recall people booing the team even when we got relegated - so personally, I just find the whole booing thing completely embarressing and never thought I'd see it from Spurs fans. Didn't see the match yesterday as I was driving back from Cardiff - I'm sure it was ***** and frustrating - but the clues to me seem to lie in the fact that all our DM's were out. I'd probably have shift superJan into the middle - but there might have been a good reason not to. The pressure at home games seems to have got weird to me. I reckon they'll be up for it at the gooner match. COYS!
DocHotspurs
Please don't believe that the Januarytransfer window will be different from any others, we will be linked with the usual big names that are so clearly out of our range and which Levy has no intention of getting (as wil be evidenced by the usual insulting bids) and we will end up with the usual last minute cheap bargains which will not fit AVB's plans. This is Levys policy and it will never be any different
jonathan01
SRV-I am sorry we are on opposite sides in this debate, as we are normally in unison about how disgracefully the club has been run by this shower of ****s ENIC and their complete inability to move the club forward and do everything on the cheap, and in turn little for the name of the club, having upset everyone they deal with, whether local or national government, never mind other clubs. All this debate over booing in symptomatic of ENIC's tenure in charge, and a lack of definition in any important area of the club. What is surprising is there are still so many apologists for them not just in the wider media, but among supporters. I would respectfully contend that people who turn up and boo, for these are obviously in the majority as yesterday proved, really do care about the club. If they were indifferent they would just clap politely whatever happened (does that sound familiar?- Clue-That club is not so far away, geographically). I would agree that singling out players for abuse is slightly beyond the pale, but democratic inclusive booing of a poor team performance is the only ammunition we have these days to show our discontent directly to those who are in a position to change matters. Finally, we are always asking why the likes of Man Utd seem to have the mental strength to withstand season after season of high pressure matches, and come out with trophies on a regular basis, and I would contend it is the ability to deal with pressure better than others, and I am afraid our players are in that 'other' camp, and perhaps, long term, a little pressure from those who really want them to do well, might be no bad thing.
lordjohnny
Ox. i agree the wages are a problem with our senior gk's. We need a young and hungry gk to cover for Lloris next season. Thats the way i think our Goalkeeping set up should be. Topspur53, for me Levy took his biggest ever gamble in replacing harry with AVB so he must in future windows support what AVB is trying to do not buy cheap last minute deals like dempsey.
spurfect one
@lordjohnny:"democratic inclusive booing of a poor team performance is the only ammunition we have these days to show our discontent directly to those who are in a position to change matters"..........how about not going to the matches at all?this is even more direct.when the gate receipts start falling and fans stop showing up and paying their £40/50 a game and the seats start looking more and more empty.......?enic/levy/lewis/tavistock at the moment don't really care if you turn up and cheer or boo as long as we put £1.2 mill in the bank every home game (very rough calucation:£40 per ticket x home 30,000 fans).
g. roberts testes
*whoops.....30,000 home fans
g. roberts testes
Oh come on LJ, when Man Utd fans are unhappy with how their club is run, they hold protest, either before or after a game. Newcastle supporters did the same, they don't take it out on the players, during a match in the same way we've done. If the reason for people "booing" is genuinely about ENIC, where are the protests? There's no justification for crap support during games. Not even as a tool to "toughen" them up as you suggest.
Guyver
Okidoki - I haven't seen any of it yet (recorded the highlights) and the general consensus was that we played poorly. In reality we have been poor at home all season. Our best home performance was probably vs Chelsea, and we were second best in that. To those who harp on about how many points we have, you need to accept that if we do not perform soon, we will stop acquiring points, and will become under more pressure. The squad is more than good enough to produce a performance. How many would you take from Wigan over their Spurs counterparts? Wigan performed. I fully accepted that we were a team in transition even before the season started. But I am surprised at how little performance we are getting from AVB. Give him time? Of course. But a quarter of the season has gone already
TonyRich
Guyver- You are making my argument. When the likes of SRV, Frank, myself and various other posters have a pop at ENIC, we get inundated with ENIC
lordjohnny
Guyver - there are many reasons to boo: at the ref, at the manager, at an opposing player, at the board, and also some people boo purely because others are booing. One thing I hate is when a newspaper interprets it one way or another, when they don't really know. I was there at the Spurs vs Norwich game, and I can tell everyone that it was a boo at the poor performance. There is no valid reason to boo Levy & ENIC, because look at where we were before them, and where we are now. It is too early to boo the manager because 10 games and 5th is actually not bad on paper.
TonyRich
......inundated with ENIC apologists stating how ell Levy and ENIC are doing, and give them time etc etc. They have had 11 years plus to improve the ground which is woefully small for a club our size. Worse, at a time of plentiful credit, an acquiescent socialist government doling out tax-payer money as if it were their own, ENIC did nothing. Now they have to build a stadium with the worst of economic conditions. If you want to organise a protest against these people, I will be there. The media will wonder what it is all about, as usual, as the myth that we are a well run club is continually perpetrated, without recourse to facts. A bit like the US election at the moment, when the worst president in US history is about to be re-elected.
lordjohnny
LJ, I don't see how im making your argument which is essentially justifying (making excuse for) crap support during games. You state "democratic inclusive booing of a poor team performance is the only ammunition we have these days to show our discontent directly to those who are in a position to change" And I provided you with an alternative, "protests" pre/post game. The supporters inside the ground could also be a little more clear as to who they are unhappy with. Where are the anti Levy chants and banners? Thats what usually happens when supporters are not happy with the owners, im not seeing that at the Lane. Personally, I think people (not you) have simply been sucked into the anti AVB narrative provided by the media and AVB's time at Chelsea. And as fans some seem to be fully cooperating with the media, providing them with more ammunition to keep the vicious circle going. And yes, Obama will be re-elected, but when his opponent is a flip-flopping mormon willing to say anything depending on which group of people he is speaking to, what do you expect.

@TonyRich, its not just the isolated booing, its the lack of atmosphere in general, even before the game kicks off, so it can't be just based on performance. Players, commentators, pundits everyone can feel it.
Guyver
BTW Pardew did face similar problems and was able to pull through, if AVB is a good manager, thats what he will do also, but our injury problems, combined with poor signings and high expectations will make it difficult for him or any manager in his position and of course the buck does stop at ENIC. Its just funny that in some cases, the same people who spend all week trashing our own players, even established ones like Lennon, are the same ones who have unrealistic expectations. They expect top 4 with a bunch of players they don't even rate. The squad is top 6 material at best imo.
Guyver
Guyver- Infantilising support, in that we only applaud whatever the circumstances, is ridiculous. It'll turn us into some kind of anodyne glee club. As for the US, you perpetrate the oft-repeated nonsense about Romney, from a hugely biased media. Have you checked the facts? When it comes to Obummer's 4 years, no matter that he's borrowed more than all the presidents from Washington to Clinton combined, and therefore more in history than any other president, upped the debt to $16 TRILLION, and has more unemployed citizens than when he took office, oh, and 47 million on food stamps (that means they are pretty poor), you are not allowed to criticise President No We Can't. No-one, I repeat no-one, could be worse than him. I wonder why he will be re-elected? I have my theory, but it ain't politically correct.
lordjohnny
Have I missed something? Lost 3 on the bounce? Er no actually, its 2 on the bounce. People seem to have forgotten that we WON at Southampton, we didn't lose or draw, we won. We've lost the last 2 home league games, we lost to Norwich away in the League cup & the Southampton game was in between that & the Chav game.

Picky I know, but that's the lovable pedant that I am!

Spuds-U-Like
"oft-repeated nonsense about Romney".. 1) I said he's a mormon, he is. 2) I said he flip-flops, he does. When as a republican, even Fox news call you out on your flip-flopping, you know its true.
Guyver
He, and Ryan, who was chosen specifically for his budget experience, have laid out a fiscal plan for recovery. No flip-flopping. What has Obummer and that moron Biden done, apart form participate in one of the worst negative campaigns in history, making slanderous statements unworthy of decent politicians? As for Romney's religion, why should that be a factor. He puts his money where his mouth is, and donates more to charity than Obummer and Biden combined. And that is a proportion of income, before you give me the old he's far more wealthy excuse. Why vote Obummer?
lordjohnny
Not sure whether it is AVB's "fault" but we have certainly not been at it from the first whistle this season,as was previously the case in most matches. This situation s so chicken and egg - slow start, no goals, crowd gets frustrated, players are negatively affected, downward spiral, etc etc. I honestly don't believe fans come in looking to criticise or boo but the performances (particularly yesterday) have been so so uninspiring that it does drain the crowd's enthusiasm somewhat. I think the blogs are clear that the fans need to do their bit to reverse this trend;at the same time, hopefully the players will do as Brad suggests, look in the mirror, sort themselves out and start to do their bit to return the Lane to its traditionally intimidating best. COYS
KingGlenn
wiltshirespur, ItalianYiddo, StillRickyVilla: Thanks for your great posts, and I totally agree. I stopped reading when I got to lordjohnny's 'If you want that, go and watch North Korea's Premier League'. Mate, supporting a team does not constitute mindless idiocy, or being forced to clap and cheer. You are using a sensationalist point to try and back up your own. The nature of support also encompasses something called encouragement. When things are going poorly, and using yesterday's match as a good example, is it not better to get behing the team, and by this I mean encourage, when there is still 30-40-50 minutes left in the game? And I'm afraid wiltshirespur is right. If you pay so much to go to the Lane, then you have your own responsibility to make it entertaining for yourself. That's part of the problem, people sitting and waiting for something to happen, instead of creating a rocking atmosphere right from the start. Why don't you and the boo boys try it? What have you to lose? You can always return to your current opinion, which of course, you are entitled to, if things stay the same. But, and here's the thing about support and encouragement, what if it DOES make things better for the players, and you start getting your wish for 3 or 4 goal wins against the 'likes' of Wigan? Be good, wouldn't it? Good article, Ox, this perhaps is the best line in it 'so lets enjoy the developments for all the bumps and bruises that are sure to be inflicted in the way.' -- Been doing that all my life! Love my team!! COYS
SpursEagle
Panic, AVB is not up to the job....and why do people assume that fans were happy to embrace AVB....I seem to re-call that most wanted another candidate to re-place Harry...my preference was for Laurent Blanc with a DoF....but it seems whoever the manager is will be hamstrung by Levy in chasing the folly of a new stadium....
shedboy2
you're not going to sing and clap when there's a bloke in front of you making idiotic decisions that will not only affect the game you're watching but also the club's future welfare...he's *****ing off the players more than the crowd, you can sense it...
shedboy2
"apart from participate in one of the worst negative campaigns in history, making slanderous statements unworthy of decent politicians?" Talk about parroting republican propaganda. You know thats not true right? In fact, if you do some research, you'll find that statement has been made in almost every single election by 1 or both parties in the U.S.. Just like the "we need change" BS you always hear. And its not just a religion, its mormonism, they believe in magic underwear, that God is 6ft+ and were a racist organisation up until the 70's where under growing pressure from the public, they conveniently received a new revelation from God himself, stating that black people did in fact have souls.. please
Guyver
Small Cockeral -- I think SRV's point is that even had we won the game, there would still be a rash of abuse aimed at certain players, many of whom are not being given a chance. When SRV wrote that comment, we were sitting in 4th, so the predictability is in the negativity pervading the Lane, and Spurs fans right now.
SpursEagle
open your eyes and look at the performances....apart from a few glimpses we look awful...the fans are not mugs and can not be fooled by an AVB/levy spin brigade...at this rate we'll be calling Harry in january....
shedboy2
Yawn, always the same people that go missing when we win and are conveniently back all over VS like a dose of herpes when we lose, telling the world how right they are and just how much they know, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these chumps have a coaching license. They've never been a football manager or owned a club, yet apparently they're the most intelligent people ever with answers to all the problems in the world. This place is full of retards, I'm done with Vital Negative, I'll leave you peeps to blow each other about how great you all THINK you are, this place used to be a laugh, not anymore. AVB hasn't been able to pick his best team yet this season, yet lets sack him anyway, genius thoughts from mixed-ability morons. Blow me later, I'm finished with this place, it sucks the life-force out of me these days, I don't need that ****e.
Crissybwoy
I go to away games more due to location cost and the fact that atmosphere is much better away from lane unless we are slaughtering oposition. Went to Norwich home last season bad game bad atmosphere. Went to stoke away carling cup awful game good atmosphere. Feel good factor gone since last year with AVB in charge even though points total is Ok. Not a very scientific analysis but just think without Arry Joe Jordan and Van der Vart Spurs squad seems very competent but not so gung ho. Boring team means boring atmosphere.
sweeneyspurs
Bye Crissy
Cape Town Spurs
OX .. nice one! You have covered points that needed to be said at this point of the season.

But.. lets hope that Levy doesnt start to slip when it comes to the January transfer window..

we really need 3-4 new attacking minded players to make us into CL qualifiers..

WILLIAN, ISCO, MOUTINHO, DZAGOEV, FALCAO, DZEKO, MERTENS, ALEXIS SANCHEZ, LLORENTE, NEGREDO, CABAYE

TAKE YOUR PICK...


2013 Starting 11.. (plus cover)

................ALEXIS SANCHEZ/NEGREDO............
...............(Adebayor/Defoe, Dempsey)............
...................................................................
..BALE...................WILLIAN...............LENNON...
(Andros).........(Isco?/Dzagoev?)......(Falque/Sigg)
...................................................................
............DEMBELE.................SANDRO..............
............(Hudd)..............(Moutinho?Parker).....
..................................................................
...VERTS.......KABOOM......CAULKER.....WALKER..
...(BAE).........(Gallas)......(Verts).......(Naughton)
...................................................................
............................LLORIS............................
......................(Freidel/Carlo).........................


We can only hope that Levy opens his wallet in a couple of months. And helps AVB push on till May...
Yidmarks
No facts as to why to support Obummer then Guyver. Unless of course you got some of the tax-payers dollars he gave to the likes of green energy Co. Solyndra ($500 million), down the swanny, completely wasted, when they went t*ts up, and many more. A complete t*sser with other peoples money. Never mentioned in the UK though, dear me no. Mustn't spoil the myth. More hopey changey.
lordjohnny
here's the deal!.......its not the fact that we lost, its how we lost...its not the fact that we have won, its how we have won....AVB is not winning the changing room...he aint built like that, he's more like a mathematicion...a strategist ....and some times his decisions baffle the bo££ocks out of the WHL fans who pay a decent amount of money to be in that seat......when harry got stuffed 1-0 by Wigan at WHL last season the whole of VS sponateously compusted in bile hate and condemnation yet if the fans this season express their disgust its suddenely unpatriotic......? Bottom line AVB is a project...he represents the new dawn, a new era, and Levy has no where to go if this goes wrong, if AVB's "new dawn" this "new era" falls flat on his face its Levy who has to stand and be counted not AVB...this is how it started with Chelski..win... win... good result..dodgy draw then defeat..by Christmas AVB was out!..I dont want that to happen to AVB ...I dont want manager 33 in 24 years.....I want some investment...Levy stitched up HR in January 2012..cos he didnt like him..despite that HR got us 4th.....and if Chelski hadnt bored us to death with their negative football to the CL title we might still be in the CL......DL and ENIC have to make a decision...getting us success on the cheap doesnt work....we either buy our success or we get a manager like Moyes or Ferguson who knows how to get the best out of his players..AVB has not only not won the hearts and minds of the players he has not won the hearts and minds of the supporters cos we dont know what he is doing, something is getting lost in translation ......but what I can tell you is that the boo boys aint booing at AVB their sights are set at a much higher level....go to the local boozers around N17 and talk to the lads...this aint about AVB, there is a serious debate about the mind games that the Barmitzvah boy is playing.....either its Levy that is protecting the ENIC purse or its ENIC holding the spondulics back, either way its the performances not the results that are showing us how far we are from where we should be....
OyVeh Maria
Bigcockeral- Good. I hope she and the rest of airhead Hollywood choke on their lattes.
lordjohnny
LJ, "tax" and Romney in the same sentence? Really? Has he released more of his tax returns yet? All that money hidden in offshore accounts, giving to charity is the least he can do. Im surprised anyone knows what his actual income really is. I don't see much reason to support either in all honesty, but do you really think McCain and "Miss beauty pageant" Palin would have done any better? Or Mr magic underwear, flip-flop, 47% Romney and that kid? Most people living outside of America (Israel aside) will always lean towards the democratic party, on foreign policy. If the Republicans could come up with a decent candidate for once, they might have stood a chance.
Guyver
Our motto tells you all you need to know about the club and its ethos. For fifty odd years we have had to put up with the damning phrase 'a good cup side', and even now some seem to be content to settle for average. Perhaps even at this early stage of the season, yesterday's result made us once again realise we'll do nothing in terms of challenging for the major prize. That is the frustration that lies at the heart of fans' reaction.
lordjohnny
A manager is only as good as the tools he has to work with. Sure he can draw a little more from the team but over a full season even a joint partnership of Mourinho and Ferguson would have struggled with a midfield engine room decimated by its 1st choice and filled with 2 players who couldnt tackle their way out a paper bag and more importantly hadn't even played together there before. I have said it before and I'll say it again..Our problems started last season once we blew a 13pt lead and failed to make the champs league. We really had a chance to improve the team and move it forward. I feel would have had a team by now to CHALLENGE for the title. We were linked with some amazing players and without a shadow of a doubt would have got 1 or 2 of them with Champs league..When we were flying in the league and playng great last season our stock had risen all over the world and even the rumours Hazard was willing to come to us wasnt much of a surprise. The recent cnfirmation from him only compounded those rumors at the time..Can we still attract player of such calibre..!!!! Do we have a better team than we had last season?Most top teams improve their squad come a new season..have we? Has AVB had any input into the squad that blew a 13pt lead last season and once faced with a opposition that is technically astute are made to look like school boys and start chasing Shadows..I truely fear for our upcoming games against City and Arsenal. It could be men against boys especially with a midfield duo of yesterday..The anti AVB brigade would be out in force again with the "we told you so" comments.
freddya
Romney paid all the correct taxes when he was an employed individual, and now pays taxes on his previously taxed earned income. He now pays 14% on his investments and money accrued over the years, as he is not an employed individual, apart from his government salary. So he has paid tax TWICE on that money he is paying tax on now. Don't talk to me about parroting, as you sound like the mainstream media, BBC, ITV, Channel 4, who perpetuate this rubbish about Romney, all to disguise their bias in favour of Obummer. Also like you, they give no facts about the economy for the last 4 years. Any facts Guyver? Still waiting.
lordjohnny
Sorry Guyver. Romney didn't take his salary when Massachusetts govenor. He did it for nothing. NOTHING. Also, with his income in 2011 he gave $4 million to charity or 19% of his income. Obummer gave 1% and Biden $300 or 0.0013%. If you think he's divisive, he's worked with an 87% Democrat legislature in Mass, successfully. That's like John Prescott being an MP in Weybridge, and doing well. Oh, and he invested money in a little start up with one store in Mass. That was Staples, now with over 2000 stores, and employs 90,000 people. He's done the same with Burger King, Warner Music, Dominos, Sealy and a host of other companies. Don't believe all you hear from a biased media.
lordjohnny
In many of the more relaxed civilizations on the Outer Eastern Rim of the Galaxy, the Hitchhiker's Guide has already supplanted the great Encyclopaedia Galactica as the standard repository of all knowledge and wisdom, for though it has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, it scores over the older, more pedestrian work in two important respects. First, it is slightly cheaper; and secondly it has the words DON'T PANIC inscribed in large friendly letters on its cover.
In-spurs-ational
agree with lordjohnny, romney all the way...but let's get back to the topic of spurs...our home support this season has been embarrasing. end of.
COYS_TSB
I would like to see our current supposedly strongest team put out against maribor thursday. I'm thinking the performance will answer all our possible questions. lloris,walker,gallas,caulker,vertonghen,lennon,sandro(livermore),huddlestone,bale,adebayor,defoe. subs.friedel,naughton,dawson,falque,siggy,dempsey,obika. my prediction..4-0 ..
82spursdebut
Why would we take off Defoe when we are looking for a goal and replace him with a striker? AVB still has a his tactical struggles where he doesn't want to play out of his favorite formation and just as we were stuck on the 442 in years before now its the 4231. I'm totally in favor of using both but at home and losing a game how do you only play with a single striker?
RagingSpur
We have Ade on the bench who was 3rd last year in the league in assists and goals! I can't understand this and I do understand Defoe has played well in his goal scoring but in linking up with his teammates he has been really poor. He doesn't go deep and work hard and Ade does and he works on the wings and drops all over the place and his assists show for how unselfish he is. Im not saying he is world class but I am saying he brings out other dimensions in our game that we do not have with Defoe. Yesterday we didn't need cover we didn't need Messi we were playing Wigan at home and a loss is unacceptable and while I have not pointed the finger at AVB in Europa and the cup yesterday he deserves all the criticism because while it may be Hudd and co. who are not the best that team should be the likes of what Wigan has to offer.
RagingSpur
Almost LJ, I think you got most of that from some random republican rep. Independent sources say Obama earned $844,585 and gave $172,130 to charity in 2011, that works out at 20.4% of his income. And no Romney is definitely not divisive, seen his debate with Kennedy? He sounded like a liberal then, he doesnt now, clearly versatile...
Guyver
Anyway, he (Romney) isnt going to win, so I guess thats the U.S down the pan, direction they've been going in for about a decade now. Oh well, back to Spurs.
Guyver
Panic?...No. BUT, I remain just a wee bit worried. I am not intending to slag off AVB, his tactics, team selection, the injury list, the boo boys nor the tea lady, as we have all had a go at doing that.

What really worries me is that against Wigan and Norwich (mid-week) there was ONLY player he gave his all...rise Mr Bale!. One could say, that with his profile, he is the one that everyone looks for for motivation, inspiration, etc. But why not anyone else? Virtually all the other payers were pants.....and it's that that worries me most. Does it say something about some underlying problem within the team/dressing room? All those players who waited under HR to be given a chance are now getting that golden chance, but why are they not rising to it?.....
Critical_Spur
Ox, thanks for this article. A very good one it is too. I agree with most you said. Considering the squad at our disposal currently, AVB and the players have done ok. I know we are not playing the most fluent and stylish football at present but don't forget only a week ago we were 4th and just beaten Utd for the first time in ages. COYS and these are still Very Good Days for us :-)
Madaboutspurs
StillRickyVilla Totally agree with you about the effect fans have on players. How many times have we heard a manager say that it was the fans that lifted the players and the fans were like a twelfth player for them? Of course it affects them, after all no matter how much cash they get paid they are still human beings with feelings the same as any one of us watching. Get off their and AVB's backs and actually show some solidarity by SUPPORTING the team. Yeah it costs a hell of a lot, but to go to the Lane seemingly with no other thought than to have a go and boo the team and manager if things are going badly is frankly not on. If people got behind the team and sang/chanted instead of being silent then the team would know we are behind them and respond in kind, but when all they get is abuse on AND off the pitch even to the extent of moronic idiots digging at them on twitter is it no wonder they get p1ssed off with those "supporters" and don't perform. When Ade was warming up he had his old smile back on his face and I thought BRILLIANT, but when those fu(king idiots and morons started booing the substitution of Defoe his face just dropped and he looked pretty bemused by it. How many of you saddo boo boys have been screaming for AVB to drop Defoe for Ade? Most of you I bet, yet when he does what most of you seem to want all you can do is throw your toys out of the pram and sound like a bunch of demented cows BOO BOO BOO. Well why don't yopu just BOO HOO off and cry at home. The team NEEDS support not idiots killing them off this way. If you really want to make your point then email Levy. I gave out an email address for him that i have had an answer back from him or one of his reps on the Spurs Wigan posting. I suppose most of the emails if you boo boys can actually bring yourselves to do something CONSTRUCTIVE for once instead of destructive by getting in touch with him, not to vent your spleen but to ask about how things are going to pan out in the future and in January properly ie politely and with respect, the way I have then you may just get an answer, but if you start yelling the odds and behaving like 7urds then all you can expect is the contempt you deserve, silence. MAN UP and show some support we have almost HALF the first tewam out injured and have lost our best players due to transfers and retirements, what the fu(k do you expect to happen? We go and win every game and cup. We were damn lucky to get 4th last season with a squad two or three times stronger than the one we have now and we are better off than we were this time last season so get real and smell the coffee. I have faith in AVB and when he gets the players HE wants you will all be going what a great manager he is and singing his praises hypocritically forgetting everything you said about him earlier on. I don't pretend to understand what is going on in his mind when he makes his subs or team selections but there must be a reason that he does it. Are all you boo boys Prem managers or do you think you are so great because you play fantasy football and get great results in that. If you are so bloody good and wise then why the fu(k aren't YOU managing a top top Prem team? OH I forgot, because you have no idea how to manage a team have you.
chrishove123
Romney, Obama. Am I lost?
Cape Town Spurs
sorry chrishove 123....avb will never get the players he wants.....as no club can afford to buy up the best players in the world and keep them happy, in the real world. That said...avb requires at least a season, before we hang him !!...lol (joking)
82spursdebut
Looks like there are 2 general schools of thought. I seem to be on the side with the likes of tengboon, Italianyiddo, SRV, spruseagle etc. Must say I have never heard so much booing at WHL and I've been as supporter since 1980. COYS and we need to be the 12 th man!!!
Madaboutspurs
lordjohnny ....its just that Romney is homophobic,racist,anti abortion,anti women,anti poor etc. and steeped in mediaeval superstitions.Sounds as though he could be a great leader of Iraq or Iran.
wentworth
lordjohnny ....its just that Romney is homophobic,racist,anti abortion,anti women,anti poor etc. and steeped in mediaeval superstitions.Sounds as though he could be a great leader of Iraq or Iran.
wentworth
oops sorry about the double.My hand was struck by lightning!
wentworth
oops, sorry, my mistake. I mistook this for a football site. Ox, you delete 1st's but Big C & Spurs-Sparrow carry out their personal feud whilst Wentworth Mr Rubber Johnny et al talk about American politics. Maybe it's time for a new poll. Who will win the US election.
Cape Town Spurs
obama...jolly good fella , he be...lol
82spursdebut
how is romney racist or anti-women in any way? anyway, stop discussing politics, its a spurs site LOL!
COYS_TSB
Don't panic... OX.. well i wrote on the pre game thread yesterday.. Wigan Manager, Martinez had a plan to stop us playing.. he told the journos about it...was in the papers.. yet AVB did not take this on board.. even at half time...and we lost... another lesson he has to learn from!! COYS
Block D Spurs
Mad.. it is the fans way of voicing their opinion at those who get paid thousnads of pounds a week, yet do not work for it, just half hearted efforts.. this is what annoys supporters. We can accept bllod & Guts efforts and lose to a good team.. but to just go through the motions, and pocket their wages, is not acceptable. We are all in a modern world of results and success.. this is what matters now.. it is written all round the stadium.. the game is about glory.. they forgot to say.. Glory comes from winning.. not losing.... :-(
Block D Spurs
sorry typos there! in a hurry... no proof check..
Block D Spurs
Yes.. I do know that the glory words are part of a longer statement by Bill Nick.. the best manager we have had...
Block D Spurs
They do get paid large sums of monies those footballers, just for kicking the ball around a few hours a week. The they get to drive around in their Aston Martins, 458's or Aventadors. Fair point Block D. The Wigan game was bad. Everyone need to pull up their socks and us fans need to get right behind them..... and give them a good kick up their backside.lol
Madaboutspurs
Mad.. you have not seen most of them in Range Rover Sports models... lol
Block D Spurs
Madaboutspurs- they don't get paid huge amounts for kicking a ball around, they get paid because people PAY to watch them, buy products, sky tv etc... I didn't see the game yesterday as work took me off to see West Ham/City...let me tell you I think City have some problems in the dressing room of their own...
shedboy2
Don't Panic, We're Only Hispanic!
El Jefe
Correct there shedboy2. The money brandished about with the worldwide audience I am sure is obscene. All 10 games are shown live every week here Down Under. So I don't really begrudge the players with the money they make but like many of you said, they have to put in 100% every single time they get on the field.
Madaboutspurs
The recent results with City certainly not as free flowing as last year shedboy. Let's hope Utd does not win the league by default again, like 2 years ago. With that I mean they are not as good as say a few years back but they still top the league because nobody else is as consistent (in paying off the ref. lol) as them
Madaboutspurs
ENIC have stripped the squad because they don't want to pay for success. We were a brilliant team; now we're just very very average. We won't finish fourth and we'll be lucky to finish in the top seven. It's a disgrace.
Henry Baker Brown
Im surprised anyone feels the players arent trying. Caulker, Vert, Dempsey, Walker, Sandro, Livermore, Defoe, Lennon, whether you rate them or not, these arent the type of guys who coast through games. Some are struggling for form or not fitting in, some lack fitness and some are simply not good enough, but the effort is there..
Guyver
# Cape Town Spurs: Because I'm afraid that you are a little schoolboy (running to Mr Ox to tell tales and all) I'll only say this: You want me and the Big man to stop a personal feud? What feud? I just feel we are actually getting to know each other!! I absolutely disagree with a lot of what The Big Man says, and his style is to be confrontational and name calling, and in my opinion, he talks out of his arse so much there is a permanent smell of fart surrounding him. So that's how I deal with that. I personal have no feelings towards him whatsoever. But he is a passionate Spurs fan, and that is worthy of respect, and why I give him the replies I feel he deserves. However, you? You want us to cease a non-existant personal feud, and then you go attempting to antagonise me by changing my name to sparrow, when me and you have never had any interaction here? I usually skip past your inane comments, because you never offer a considered opinion of your own. Grow up, child.
SpursEagle
Nuts! That should read 'You changed my name from eagle to sparrow when we have never ...' yada yada yada
SpursEagle
From watching our games it seems to me that AVB like Harry has one plan and one plan only. AVB is proving rigid and stubborn in his ways...poor guy has the look of Christian Gross about him
Forever Spurs
That AVB should bomb is no surprise. Levy goes for bean counters as managers and has no idea. Our two most successful managers in recent years have been accidental. Jol when Santini walked out and he inherited though the influence of Arnesen. Then Harry who was a desperate stop gap when Levy messed things up by undermining Jol and bringing in Ramos. Now Levy has got the lame manager type he likes
Forever Spurs
Guyver I think you make some valid comments there. I think the players look increasingly lost. No doubt they are trying to commit to memory all the 789 set moves from AVB's chalkboard sessions. I expect in 3-4 yrs they will have grasped them all so we will be able to push for promotion from league one
Forever Spurs
I caught myself thinking about Tottenham Hotspur...not the XI which was defeated by Wigan on saturday, but the Football Club n its wholenesss. But, first, we should admit Roberto Martinez is a expectional manager. He cannot have millions pouring at Wigan, but he surely knows how to forge a XI capable of playing as a unit. Maybe he was a better candidate to our Hot Seat, but now this is just part of the past. Talking about past is what I meant when I started writting this. I have no doubt Daniel Levy is a schrewd businessman, capable of great moves and brinkmanship master. However, my question is: Does he know a thing or two about Football ?? Not Football as a business, but Football like the manager feels it when on the pitch, when on touchline, when on an away dugout. I dare to say that maybe Mr. Levy is so good a business that he might jeopardize the Football Club by maximizing its profits in the near term. Much more important than Friedel-Lloris discussion, much more important than Ade or Defoe or both at 4-4-2, what Spurs really suffer these days is the total absence of a creative midfielder like, sorry Lads, Luka Modric or Rafael van der Vaart. What I watched last saturday was a side lacking imagination, clever and accurate ball passing, a cool head telling everybody what to do and when to do. Maybe Dembele is this man. I don´t think so. He´s good, better than Sigurdsson (who is good enough to be a Plan B), but not the player to wear Luka´s or Rafa´s boots. And what does Levy has to do with that ?? Well, Modric should be sold, didn´t want to play and a huge amount of money would come. 40MM ?? 33MM ?? 27MM ?? It does not matter. That would be resources enough to bring someone capable of keeping Spurs´ midfield heart pumping and even galloping. From a financial perspective, selling by 33MM and buying for 15MM is a masterpiece. However, Tottenham Hotspur is still a Football Club (yes, there are so many other things related to it, but they could not survive without those 11 players in beautifull white shirts coming out of the tunnel every weekend...) and so it needs players and some players. If Joao Moutinho was the target, Daniel should have signed him lots of days before august,31st in order to give AVB enough time for him to adapt. If it was not Moutinho, then anyone good enough but not at 11PM, aug/31...Apart from Dembele, I cannot see anyone in Spurs´ current squad able to deliver the creativity we so desperately need. I´m not bashing Daniel Levy, make no mistake, Folks. But I think he might have jeopardize our performance till january unintentionaly. I´m not sure a DoF would prevent this to happen, but if it could, then we surely need one.
AlexSpur
Good post AlexSpur. Should have gotten a good replacement for Modric/VDV. Would have likely powered us along this season nicely. So, we wait for Jan 2013 but don't hold our breath for anything special. Still, I am contented at present with what we've got. COYS
Madaboutspurs
I agree, good post AlexSpur. It's actually refreshing at this stage to move away from our fans' performance (which I will admit I had a lot to say on) and listen to a sane, considered voice. Almost poetic. That makes a nice change. VDV and Mod are big losses, you are right, but MadAbout makes a good point too. I'm happy with a Sandro-Dembele MF for now. Injuries permitting that is.
SpursEagle
Apparently Defoe was 'disrespectful' to AVB, and Adebayor is unhappy as well, and the players acted like they didn't give a poop, which resulted in the boos yesterday.

If all the above are true, I fear the players may do a Chelsea and stage a revolt or, even worse, an exodus of talent. At least with a revolt we know that there are leaders in the squad who care and want to change things around. The only thing that's worse than watching a struggling Spurs team is to watch a struggling, unmotivated Spurs team which no longer cares, a throwback to the Gerry Francis days where Nielsen would joke and smile after scoring in the 7-1 defeat to Newcastle, or where the likes of Howell would say stuff like "a team can qualify for Europe even by finishing 10th in the league".

Hopefully this really is just a transitional thing, and AVB will eventually get to grips with the capabilities of our squad, and put out a winning formula. Or at least get our players inspired and playing for the badge again.
dazzwater
@AlexSpur I was hoping Huddlestone might grow into our playmaker role in the absence of Modric/VDV and now Dembele. I guess Levy and AVB were thinking the same way. He still doesn't seem up to it, though hopefully it's due to lack of match time than a lack of ability.

It used to be the case that our squad was just a 30-goals-a-season striker and a 40-games-a-season centreback away from being a top class side. Hopefully AVB will soon find our best 11 so that we can at least get back to the level of that squad.
dazzwater
StillRickyVilla, sorry,mate, just seen your post as I've been out a long time. Just wanted to say I am in fact in business, a very successful one for four generations, and I have bought fairly substantial shares in Tottenham. Jimmy Greaves was my hero when I first watched Spurs. I have never booed a Spurs player or manager in my life, or any of my employees (I have forty of them). Unless it is a major major failing, I always give them a second chance - after which I replace them. I wouldn't have persisted with Defoe as lone striker or 4-2-3-1, for instance, for this long. But what does a lifelong Spurs supporter and a businessman know, eh?
hiano
I'm getting bored of repeating myself but take 5 1st teamers out of Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelseam Man City, Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton etc... Would they all be performing at their peak??? The booing needs to stop and getting behind the team should start, make the atmosphere electric and that will spur on our guys and hopefully scared the opposition. Keep on booing and then we can wave goodbye to Bale and MAYBE some of the others will want to follow him. Then YOU booing fans will be moaning again. I'm also bemused to this constant referral to "we have played the bottom 6". Well we have to play all the teams, so lets judge once we have done that!!
yiddyboy
Yes our start to the season has been disappointing, but lets give this manager a chance. By the end of Xmas we should have most of our missing first teamer's back for selection. If then he continues to pick the same sub standard players as he does now, then he deserves all the boos and the calls for his head......................Lets back them at the lane!! COYS
WestStandEnclosure
ign had injuries as well.That is simply no excuse. he problem is that becuse of our depleted squad and a hapless manager, we had no idea how t cope with our injuries. And can anyone please ell me what AVB's football philosophy is because as far as I can see, he abandon it aftger one game at at this moment in time I don't think he has the first clue what he is doing. I wanted to give him time to prove himself and I do actually like the bloke but unfortunately IMO he is so completely out of his depth. Combine that with ENICS delibarate policy of holding onto the cash for as long as possible (dream on if you think the January transfer window will be any different from the last few) then I am afraid to say it but I think eighth is the best we will finish this season
jonathan01
A hapless manager in my book is a manager who throws away a 15 point lead over the 3rd placed team with the best squad we have had in years. AVB may turn out to be a hapless manager but he hasn't earned that title yet. COYS
ItalianYiddo
Good post AlexSpur, perhaps Levy is a competent bussiness man, I use the word perhaps advisedly, but no he doesn't know the practicalities of football, as his manager appointments (8 and counting) and dealings in the transfer market prove (although he consistently looks after Joe Lewis's money). It could be that perhaps his pay master Joe (no tax) Lewis has issued his edict, i.e. we are in THFC as a property investment, keep the costs down, keep us in the PL, but be aware of the cost of success on the pitch, better to remain on the fringes, it is cheaper, the only possible excuse for tearing up a top 4 team, selling it off, buying in some dross, and starting again . The problem is his latest manager recruit (not a universal choice) tends to tick the same boxes, he knows what he knows from gathering data for Jose Mourinho, getting his badges, having some success with a inherited team that was a class better than anything else in his league, waving pieces ofd paper about, and playing football on a lap top or a clip board. He has no first hand experiance, has never been there, done it, bought the tee shirt, on the pitch. He is trying to emulate 2 genii that have managed successfully without having played i.e. Wenger and his former mentor Mourinho. What a huge gamble to think we could unearth the third. So our fortunes are now in the hands of a computor geek, and a gardener.
Frank
Frank, dear oh dear your hatred for Joe Lewis is clouding your thoughts. It may well appear that I am on a crusade to defend AVB but come on, give the man a chance, give him a season and some players and than join in the media quest to destroy him. He has won a title in a major league an a major European title therefore anyone with half a brain would give him a season to prove himself. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
my god Frank and it wasn't too long ago you would have given anything to get rid of harry !! be careful what you wish for I'd say. He should only have gone IF there was better to replace him and simply there wasnt. The article says " It wasn't so long ago, that fans were glad to be rid of Harry and were happy to embrace Villas-Boas" I wasn't and I warned you lot over and over again. But you got greedy and delluded. You thought top 4 wasnt good enough. Why??? What is history has ever told us we are more than that?? What did you expect?? So frank I counter your blame Levy for everything by saying blame the fans. worst in the league.
jimmy-yid
i've read in quite a few posts on this thread that people think AVB is making wrong team selections, in some ways i too am baffled by his use of gallas, freidel, walker all of time, he has naughton, lloris and dawson that can be used, if only to give the players that aren't firing on all cylinders a kick up the jacksey. that said, what about redcraps poor use of players? was he any better? definitely not!!! yep our performances have been well below par and we've squeezed a couple of results, but isn't that what good sides do when under performing? i'm not saying we are a good side yet, but i do believe we have the makings, i also think like some of the others here that 4-4-2 at home is the formation to play, use the other formations in away games and europe, it would suit our squad better.
jabbatheyid
Looking at our next 6 fixtures, there won't be much opportunity to play an open 4-4-2, especially with our injury list.
Guyver
Has anyone seen the league table? Last time I looked we were sitting in 5th. Ok, the majority of performances have been poor but it is only the deluded who thought we were going to be pushing for the title this season. Too much change to bed in for that to happen....
skins
....and I agree the atmosphere at the lane has been atrocious this season. It seems the media's desperation for AVB to fail has subconsciously got to many of the spurs fans….
skins
Jimmy-yid the last tme I looked, in this or any other PL club, it isn't fans who hire or fire managers, or sell the heart out of a top 4 team, and replace them with inadequate alternatives, it is the chairman, thats what the job spec says, whether it all goes right, or wrong, it is the chairman in the frame, the buck stops there, sorry but that's simpy how it is.
Frank
Italian Yiddo, I don't hate Joe Lewis at all, but I don't rate him, or respect his actions since aquireing THFC. His company identified as a priority 11 yes 11 years ago, that we needed greater match day revenues to move forward, so a new stadium was a priority. Where is the new stadium 11years later, closer we are led to believe, we will see. In the light of the emergence of other PL clubs due to investment from his fellow billionaire owners, what reaction have we seen from him,none. No I don't hate Joe Lewis, but I simply regret his lack of committment, interest, involvement, ambition, and investment in taking HIS football club forward on the pitch, preferring to watch his property investment appreciate with the planning and other contents for a new stadium, probably in the end to be built by new owners.
Frank
....consents for a new stadium.
Frank
Skins, I would ask you to look at the eague in a months time when we have played some proper teams We are 5th due to the fixtures so far, we have played the bottom 6 at the time of the games, and Newcastle, WBA, Man U,and Chelsea, from where we have collected 4 points from 12. We have some difficult games in the next 6, so let's see after that.
Frank
Wiltshirespur, I agree with all your posts re the "fans" at the moment. I was in the Park Lane trying to sing and support but even in there were not many takers to join in. I sat in my seat for 3 minutes after the game just wondering what I had seen, and was so desperately disappointed that Al-Habsi had nothing much to do all game. If it wasn't for friedel we would have lost by 3. I don't mind if we lose by having a right go and the goalie has a blinder, but the worry is we created nothing, with the same team that came close to Chelski. The atmosphere is woeful, Wigan had 350 fans at most and could be heard later in the second half. It is NOT a place to fear for the away team now. They know if they bottle us up for 20 minutes then the crowd will get the players down. I have NOT heard a PAXTON song or WEST STAND song ALL season yet. They meekly join in when things are going well. Can we have it that WE lift the players before we score and then keep going. Also everytime we lose the ball there is a huge groan and abuse. Behind me on Saturday was a chap that when Caulker cleared a last ditch clearance, berated him for kicking it aimlessly up the pitch. I assume he wanted him to control it, lose possession and gift them a goal. God knows what he would have spewed out then. Very depressing at WHL at the moment. The team is FEARFUL and the need our HELP.
COYS R US
Hope and CHANGE (his mind)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSevAEtMc4
Underwear needs to be changed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZfXvFAeHVo&sns=em
Flip Flops are the mandatory dress code in Washington/Parliament……

We need to either put on some hobnail boots and start stomping on toes
or
Put on our trainers and run like hell….
By the way, during the game the team should be supported, if at the end of the game you feel inclined to boo then go right ahead. COYS
miamispur
stillrickyvilla - amen brother, couldn't have put it better myself.
jesusthedevil
Admtedly it's with the benefit of hindsight but surely a better substitution when Sandro had to go off would have been to move Vertonghan into midfield & put Naughton at left back. 2nd mistake was in taking off Defoe to make way for Adebayor. Should have been Dempsey as by then we were chasing the game, a goal down. Also Siggy looked lost in the deep lying midfield role, needs to be supporting the striker as a goal scoring midfielder. Hopefully there will be changes for Thursday with Lloris. Naughton, Ekotto, Livermore, Siggy & Ade all starting. And please stop the booing only encourages the opposition. COYS.
yid61
Btw - Obama won - YIPPIE
DaSPURS
 

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