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Fans or critics?

As I have got older, calmer and perhaps become better educated in the games finer details, I have become more relaxed about defeat and crisis. I accept that as a fan of anyone outside of the established CL sides, you will witness more downs than ups as a football supporter, and clearly following Spurs hasn't been too stressful in the last few season's, yet still we whine and moan as soon as we have the merest blip in form and the boo boys come out in force and the fans forums erupt with dissenting comment and the blame game starts all over again.

Of course I care about my teams results, but I also realise that winning games and trophies are not the reason I support Tottenham, after all they were losing when I first followed them, so why should I expect anything different? What I do expect is to feel that my team was actually putting in some effort and not going through the motions as it appeared to be the case on Saturday. Losing to a better side, is acceptable, but at least I want to feel that our players are wanting to get a result as much as myself and my fell fans. If I don't feel I am getting that effort, perhaps I should be more angry and demanding that I get value for the hard earned cash I have had to pay out?

It is an impossible argument to win when debating whether it is right or wrong to boo your team after a defeat or just a poor performance. There will always be a thinking that when you pay your money, you have a right to voice your opinions and I suppose they have a valid point, but that still doesn't make their opinions right or reasoned, and that is where it becomes impossible to agree or at least agree to disagree.

So what sort of fan are you? I have to say I have never booed my team or an individual Spurs player. I just can't bring myself to do it. I also can never truly understand a fan who is constantly negative or overly critical. It makes me question why they watch football and Tottenham in the first place. However I know that others simply don't understand my passive support and feel it is their absolute right to make their feeling known, just as long as they pay their money at the gate. Question is, which one are you and which of us are right???

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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday November 5 2012

Time: 9:51AM

Your Comments

Supporter!! The lane on Saturday was horrible. I don't get to go often, and my son's first match was Saturday. The performance was terrible granted, but my son asking me why the kids around him were booing our team was what really upset me.
In my opinion we should all be both. The only reason fans get so critical and negative is ecause they are true fans who really care about the club
I could copy and paste this and exchange "Spurs" for "Arsenal" and it would be perfect for how I feel right now. I understand why people get mad because I used to be the same, I just hope these angry folks realise that football is a lot more enjoyable without the anger and bile ... and that for the most part their annoyance is misdirected.
AVB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the most interesting and telling moment I've had as a Spurs fan was last Wednesday at Norwich when we got that dodgy penalty in the last moments of the game. the norwich fans and players were going mad but almost every single person around me in the spurs end was looking in puzzlement and going 'why are they complaining? do they not know we're going to miss?'. Spurs as a fanbase are naturally and expectantly negative, this comes from years of getting so close and then falling in the last few hurdles. I read once that a study had been done on premier league football that stated that spurs were the most stressful team to support in the prem, I don't know how they worked that out but it does seem fitting. As a fanbase we are one of the most neurotic, negative and paranoid you can get. Yet in some ways, this is a very useful tool in any fans armoury. Setting yourself up for failure and criticising the team makes it oh so much sweeter when the occasional moment of pure joy does come, and it reduces the pain somehwhat when the $hit does hit the fan. I think it is very possible to be both a fan and a critic, some of the most negative and criticising fans I know are also the most passionate and loyal, they have done it all and seen it all, and it is this experience that gives them such a cynical approach. Constructive criticism is absolutely fine, but the booing must stop. Booing is not constructive, it harms team performance and confidence for no other reason than you are throwing a wobbly because you paid money for a, naturally unpredictable, football match where the players didn't quite play well enough or entertain you enough. A fan is a fan as long as they love and support the team through thick and thin, they only stray out of this territory when they begin to affect team performance through negativity and lack of full throated support.
Fan or critic ? Most supporters of every club are both. When a team that is being touted as a Champions League side performs the way ours has in the last few games supporters have every right to comment negatively on the performances of the players and the manager. Maribor, Norwich and Wigan wouldn't get a single player into the Tottenham team but they've all recently got results against us and we've played rubbish football in those games so why shouldn't we get angry and have a go. AVB and the players need a good kick up the arse and start justifying their prestigious status and enormous salaries.
Just need to vents little frustration here, we have only got two strikers at the club an we can't keep them happy, how the hell can that be possible? We have had 4 or 5 strikers at the club and Arry managed to keep at least 2 of them happy. Now another obvious thing, we are not scoring enough goals. I have never been a fan of playing one striker no matter how good they are, you always need a second to grab that rebound, tap the scuffed shot in, ok they are not great goals but they can win games, it happened over and over with ade an van der Vaart upfront. Solution, again obvious but, surely we are being too defensive with two holding midfielders, we are letting he opposition attack too much. We should at least try 4-1-3-2 for the city game because they will destroy a 4-2-3-1, hopefully Dembele and Ekotto will be back this weekend so this line up will be possible. Friedel, Walker, Vertongen, Gallas, Ekotto, Dembele, Lennon, Dempsey, bale, Adebeyor, Defoe.
I care about results, but I care MORE about performance. Points-wise, we are NOT doing badly. That is not the point. The performances have been patchy all season, and we have passed the quarter-way mark. This is what is disappointing. I hate booing, but it is the only way the fans can express how poor the team is performing. If the team is playing good stuff, and unlucky to be a goal down at half time, the fans would not boo. But we have been out played at home by Wigan, Norwich, QPR (who cannot win for toffee). Yes, the win vs United was appreciated, but so far AVB must work harder to get the basics right. This is what I feared about hiring AVB. His first job was a shot to nothing - a struggling second tier club where if you lose all your games, your reputation is intact because the team is poor. His second job was at the best team in Portugal, who almost always win the league. He does well, but the team is head and shoulders above the rest in Portugal. He comes to England, and it requires more than what he has had to show before. This is the time that he must show his worth. I have written this season off to transition. So the pressure is not (for me) to get into top 4 or 5 or whatever. It is to get our side playing with swagger, with confidence, and to please the crowd. We do not like to lose, but at least we want to be entertained with some flowing football played by your own side. Too many people have been focussed on the wrong issue - such as Lloris, or Walker's form, or Defoe vs Ade, or perceived media AVB witch hunt ... but the reality is that the whole unit is not performing. Fix it soon AVB, or it will get worse....
I would never boo my team because I don't think it helps them. Booing the manager's decisions just puzzles me. Do the supporters know better? But we were certainly crap on Saturday, though the results in some previous matches have masked the fact that we've been crap often this season. I've been asked by a buddy, a Man U supporter, about Defoe "sulking" at being subbed and what's going on. I told him it would be a cold day in hell when I started worrying about whether Defoe was sulking or not, or why.
Ox, the real issue is not the booing as such, although I do think its a lazy reaction to a poor performance, but it has got out of hand as the expectations have got ridiculously high considering the complete change of management & philosophy. AVB isn't Quincey & that seems to get forgotten with patience being of limited value to certain sections of fans.

What exacerbates the problem out of all proportion, is the slanging matches that go on within this forum. Some posters seem to completely lose sight of the fact that it is OPINIONS that are being expressed & take those that differ from theirs as being some sort of personal attack, responding with their own personal attacks, usually abusive. All this does is divert attention away from the point of an article, cause resentment & drive reasonable fans away. No one can deny that VS has lost some very good members & others who have simply reduced the amount the contribute. I see more & more, recently, others saying they've had enough & then as good as being told to p1$$ off. Just for proffering an opinion that differed!

Frankly, all the abusive $h1te I've read this last few weeks hasn't made me want to return to VS on a more regular basis. No doubt somebody will make some sort of "smart" remark about this, but I don't care what they think anyway.

Sly - it is not just that we are not scoring enough goals, but the ones that have gone in have been often fortunate - especially our opening goal. QPR own goal. Defoe's miss that hit Caulker on the heels and in vs Villa. Ekotto's deflected shot vs WBA. Vertonghen's great run, but massively deflected shot vs Man U. Defoe's bundled effort vs Newcastle. Even Gallas' goal vs Chelsea fortunately came to him, and he headed it off his hand... There are not enough nicely created goals, or even bread-and-butter tap-ins. Only the Reading game can I say that we opened them up, scored, and went on to win nicely - but from what I hear, Reading were "nothing" that day.
Fan's or Critics; With so many social site's available, you can post the most mundane of notes from cleaning your shoes to your latest holiday snaps, as examples, so to have a social site such as this, football fans can introduce a topic and get a response. I have been a supporter of THFC for 53 yrs, i was 5 when i started, simply because the school kids around me started picking teams, i picked Spurs because my Dad talked about them, he even explained that from our home nr royston herts, to white hart lane was so far in distance. And many many times over the years that journey up the A10 was made together with friends from being a schoolboy into adult life and it continued when i passed my driving test and had my own car, every time i looked forward so much to seeing spurs play having a burger from ''On the Griddle'' on the Paxton Road, the banter in and around the ground, you can't buy that, sure ticket prices have increased, players wages have increased, but spurs is and always will be my club, i have changed a lot of things in life, but not the club i support. So what happened on Saturday? we can say this and say that about it, but what we say changes nothing, but at least it get's it off our chest doing so, right or wrong, they are only opinions, so don't have a pop at someone for saying something different to your opinion, remember all of us support the same team, when you pay your money for your ticket or tickets and the post arrives, what is your first thought? Well if they play shi7, I'm going to boo them, i doubt that very much, but come the day your start to think who's going to play today, is he still injured or coming back, your get to the ground full of anticipation, excitement, maybe nervous about what is going to happen, i can tell you, i do and still do, even if i'm watching at home. Some days the results go for us, other days they don't, your get the odd poor performance, the bad day at the office, but we will bounce back and we will all look forward to the next game, as a fan or critic? No as a Supporter of Tottenham Hotspur FC. COYS.
spu 4 life
Spuds - I agree largely with what you say. The only thing different is that I feel that some people's expectation have risen too high, but if you look at recent history: we have gone from a) never finishing highly, but the crowd were pleased by some entertaining football performances at times - to b) having BOTH results and performance - to c) now, where we rarely perform and probably will not finish as high as past years. The perception is that we are going to get NEITHER performances NOR results.... This is the fear I think.
The other thing is that sooo many were moaning about Harry's rigidity of formation, and he handling of certain players - and AVB is being exactly the same. Just a different formation, and different players that he is mysteriously keeping out of the team. I said this for the last couple of years. You may moan about the manager for doing this and doing that, but when you replace him, you will moan about the new guy in different ways. What is important is that the team performs as much as possible, and we get results. YES I want the crowd to sing and cheer to get the team to play better, but they need an inkling that it WILL get better. Support is a two-way street.
You're spot on Tony, but I would add in the lack of patience being displayed. Fans are forgetting that its rarely possible to integrate a new manager, coaching staff, new ideas, players & have a seamless transition in the style of play & results. Its also seemingly forgotten that we are seriously restricted by injuries in key areas, the absolute key ones being Benny, Scotty & Dembele.

The two have to be the same thing. When the club and the team do well, and succeed, then they will be praised and applauded. If on the other hand the club, and the team, are not performing and deteriorating, then they are entitled to be berrated and criticised, that's how real life works. Any of us who are, or in my case were, subject to work appraisals exprianced exactly this, praise, and a nice annual increment if doing well and impressing, but criticism and sometimes nil, or a postpone increment, until improvement is apparent. Those that simply tolerate failure as a matter of course, and contnue with praise or excuses, are simply presiding over a gradual fall in standards that will not recover.
The critic in me says - Terrible performance and Man City up next. Missing Harry so step it up AVB please. Stop starting with Defoe up top by himself, its *****ing me off. Start Lloris in the PL games. The fan in me says - Same time next week, will be supporting my Spurs team, players, new coach as always. We can win. COYS!!!
agree with most things said on here. I have been guilty of taking the game too seriously, whether it was my playing, my young playing of Tottenham. perhaps watching youth football, I have realised that we don't have a right to be abusive, but in the professional ranks, we expect perfection and rarely give the opposition the credit they deserve, instead look towards poor tactics or useless players as the reason. there is always a reasoning that players earn loads, so should always play well and not make mistakes, but we see them as comodities and not human beings that feel pressure and make mistakes, as you and I do. of course I care about winning whether it be my U12's or Tottenham, but winning doesnt make me a fan and losing shouldnt give me the right to be abusive.
Spurs starting XI v Norwich Capital One Cup:- Lloris, Walker, Dawson, Caulker, Naughton, Sigurdsson, Livermore, Carroll, Falque, Bale, Dempsey; - Spurs starting XI v Wigan 2012:- Friedel, Walker, Gallas, Caulker, Vertonghen, Lennon, Sandro, Huddlestone, Bale, Dempsey, Defoe; Yet last season it was what i consider our best XI Friedel, Walker, Kaboul, King, BAE, Lennon, Modric, Sandro, Parker, Bale, Ade, we also had VDV , Defoe as sub, in come Vertonghen, Caulker is back and his played well, reads the game with ease; but missing Kaboul, BAE, Parker, Dembele all out injured, Ade finally fit and healthy, the more he plays the better, Defoe off on saturday, jacket on and straight down the tunnel, well his upset, but his attitude still stinks and his the most likely, along with Bale to score, so i can understand his pi$$ed off, as mentioned before if Hudd had passed the stoke medical, he would be on a season long loan, Livemore used more as back up, ok he deserves his chance, so when you have it, take it, show your worth your place, in my eyes, he has not. Until we have a fully fit squad, fringe players take up the challenge and they are proving, not up to the task. Again the biggest question comes from ''WHO SCORES THE GOALS'' that's our biggest problem and as a fan, i think needs putting right.
spu 4 life
Tony Rich, you are so right. We are now entering an era, if poor results and performances against very ordinary opposition, especially at home are the measure, when we are enjoying neither good performances, nor acceptable results. Injuries maybe contributing to this, but the underlying defensive philosophy of the coach i.e trying to defend 1 goal leads, taking off strikers and putting on DMFers, is the biggest factor. I am afraid the days of expansive, entertaining, and attacking football at Spurs are over under this regime, choose whether top players are fit or not. It is the nature of AVB's latin defensive philosophy, that is the price we will pay for Mr. Levy's latest attempt at a managerial appointment.
spu 4 life it has needed sorting for 8 windows and we are still waiting, the need is obvious, the will to sort it out is conspicuous by its absence, don't expect this to change in January.
What do you mean Frank by "entering" an era of poor results against ordinary opposition? Its always been thus, thats what we experience as Spurs fans. We've lost 2 of the last 3 home games V Wigan & there are lots of other defeats against such teams littered throughout the last 5 or 6 seasons, Norwich, Wolves, Sunderland all at home in the league, are just some that spring to mind.
the heading says 'fans or critics', i'm neither, i'm a supporter, a supporter of THFC, and imo that means i follow the club irrespective of results, players or indeed manager, and booing a poor performance should never, i repeat NEVER enter the equation. sure i can offer my opinion on said results, players or manager, and even get passionate about those feelings, but being a supporter i have never and would never boo the team that represents my club, that imho is damaging and destructive to what we all want, that being, success for THFC! i often condemned redcrap on here and still think that DL was right to get rid, appointing AVB was a gamble but it always is when appointing a manager, as has been mentioned, we are in transition, which by it's implication means patience is needed, after all rome wasn't built in a day! one life one love THFC, COYS!!!!!
If every fan that booed at the weekend, also sung and cheered when we played well, I would have less objection to their negativity. However, too many times in recent seasons, the atmosphere has been as quiet as the Emirates. In my opinion, we've deteriorated over the years from supporters to spectators. We desperately need a "twelfth man" if we are to turn WHL back into the fortress it once was. Stop blaming AVB and the players and take some responsibility yourselves. COYS
... and well said jabbatheyid
The fact is, we are not playing good quality football. The sadder fact is that we shouldn’t really expect to match last seasons performances as we have lost our 2 most influential players and have about 12 injuries at present. BUT, for me the most upsetting fact is, although we don’t expect to be spanking man city 12-0 away, to lose against teams like Norwich, and bloody Wigan at home who we slaughtered 9-1 a few years ago just isn’t good enough. We can blame the tactics, we can blame injuries, we can blame players performances, we can blame loosing players, but the real blame or problem is that again we simply have not strengthened enough. Lloris Vertonghen and Dembele are all good buys, but once again we go into the season with a joke of a strike force and have lost one of our best players. We can boo the manager and players for loosing at home in the fashion that they did, but looking at the bigger picture, we just havnt got the squad we had in the last few years.
also i think the fault is with our strip! all white should only be used in europe as is our tradition, next time i'm at the lane(i only ever go to away games anyway, better and more genuine support ;-)) i'm going to boo because of the strip! and before anyone thinks i'm serious about this(apart from the away support), may i suggest you get a life! COYS
we can always ask what gives us the right to expect great football and results every game or without a few disappointments along the way
Our support is worth a goal a game! - To the opposition. WE y are only really happy moaning, groaning, booing, knocking the players etc. I am also unhappy with the catering the toilets and the fellow sitting next to me. Can't wait for another opportuntity to boo!
isn't every fan a critic and vice versa?the problem maybe that certain fans may think that they are 'true' fans by booing at the first signs of "trouble" and their booing is a critic of their team......which in my opinion it isn't.....if we are facing relegation at the end of next season with avb in charge and bale,sandro,verts,etc sold off to wherever i.e.if we are in total dire straits and no light at the end of the tunnel then maybe there is justification for booing and very harsh criticizing but i do feel as if those days are STILL a long way off.i also think that all this booing is just counter productive and hardly improves the teams performance.if we want to vent our spleen why not throw rancid cabbage at levy for messing about during the transfer window,lol.the point i'm trying to make is that we should show our frustrations in the right way and to the right people. lewis and Co. don't really care if you boo as long as you pay your entrance fee and buy a pie and a tea at half time.booing only effects the team and in turn ourselves as they don't perform as well....last word:how many of us called for ade to play instead of defoe as a lone striker then when it happens we boo?i understand that we may have needed 2 strikers on saturday but jeez louise!
g. roberts testes
I think all supporters are critics and have a right to their opinion. I am an avid supporter of both Spurs and AVB but do feel he made a mistake on Saturday. Being at the game it was clear that both Defoe and Dempsey were ineffective. At 0-0 I could understand the change but at 0-1 it was clear that Defoe should've stayed on the pitch and Ade come on to support him. This does not dampen my support for AVB as i have been wwatching these players long before he started his career. He will learn from this in time and time is what we need to give him. He needs two more transfer windows to mould his own squad and get the right players in for his chosen system of 4-2-3-1. At present, due to injuries we simply do not have the players to fit the system which works so well away from home. Unfortunately, Saturday was the ideal time to go 4-4-2 with the players available.....hindsight is a wonderful thing!
also i do feel that this divine right to win every match against a team lower down the table that we have ASSumed might be the part of the problem.we seem to think that because a team is 'inferior' we SHOULD beat them but didn't wigan beat the chavs recently?didn't norwich beat the scum recently?the chavs drew with swansea at the weekend,mank 5hity drew with the spammers (league winners remember?)...and believe it or not We even beat manure at old trafford....there will be ups and downs,bumps and bruises,peaks and troughs.lets get behind OUR team and see what pans out for the rest of the season,shall we?
g. roberts testes
As a fan I am entitled to be critical as well as supportive. However as a fan I will never 'boo' my feelings as that is disrespectful. This season I feel 4231 has served us well away from home, at the Lane we should be 442 or 4411 and take it to the opposition. AVB should be better tactically than HR but I felt Carroll for Sandro would have been the better option. Lloris must start now in Prem to see if he can take over. Brad been good but no clean sheet this season means lloris deserves a go.
Wilts Spurs
All supporters probably are also critics, but definitely not vice versa. Unfortunately, as i said previously, WHL is now full of spectators who, at best, are as much use to the team as neutrals. We no longer seem to have any kind of home vocal support - Even Park Lane and the Shelf are getting quieter every season. It's not really that surprising that we do better away from home these days. Until we start to give our team the UNCONDITIONAL support it needs, we can say goodbye to fortress WHL.
Not concerned over the season but recent form at home is a worry. Hope fans sing heart out in next home game so players up their performance. Like to see Lloris in goal and Vert at CB with Caulker to see if that removes mistakes of Gallas / Friedel.
Wilts Spurs
Agree 1984 - Sort it our AVB! COYS.
no boos please :.. that's not nice...
g. roberts testes, spot on mate. On the last thread a posted a little chart where basically we were winning most games at home and drawing away, most of us would be over the moon with that and the points on board would be roughly the same. As I keep saying for better or worse AVB will be with us at least till the end of the season, SO GIVE THE GUY A CHANCE!!!! COYS
some have stated that AVB should've sent ade to play up front with defoe, while i think 4-4-2 suits us better at home, and in principal i agree, but as we only have teo strikers what happens if either or both get injured whilst playing together? what does AVB then do? case of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't at the moment! i can also understand the system that he wants to impose, with goal scoring midfielders, but i think it will take time to truly implement, and booing the team at home is definitely not the way forward, the teams coming to the lane must be rubbing their hands in delight knowing that our "home fans" get on the players backs as soon as a pass is misplaced! and these same fans berate the lack of support at the haemmoroids, hypocritical morons..............COYS!!!!!
I was at the Norwich game and was appalled by the really foul language directed at our own players. I only get to one game every year or so (when I return to the UK as I live in China) and it took alot of the enjoyment of the day away from me. Yes it was a bad performance, yes people have the right to voice their feelings. But to curse the way some did to SPURS players. I can't help but ask why? To boo a team - it's not what I like to hear but a point has to be made and when things go well do people expect fans to be quiet? So always a fan and a critic- it makes us who we are but please cut out the really vile language.
I think the way we played against Wigan come from the Norwich game, there was no urgency against Norwich it was like a pre-season game and I was there. (Sorry to the poor bloke in front of me when we let in the second goal). I watched the Wigan game at home on Saturday and turned it off when AVB took Defoe off, We just run out of ideas. Team for Man $hitty: Lloris, Walker, Caulker, Vert, Benni, Sandro, Dembele, Lennon, Bale, Ade, Defoe.
Yido T
ParkLane67, I've noticed the declining vocal support at WHL in recent years too. It seems to be in proportion to how successful we've become (not measured by trophies but higher finishing positions and CL qualification), and the more creative, attacking style of football. Perhaps some fans feel there is less need to encourage the team now; it's more about sitting back in expectation of great entertainment and winning as a right. And when things don't hit those dizzy heights, the disappointment turns to boos...
Frank, you mentioned in a previous post that ‘Those that simply tolerate failure as a matter of course, and continue with praise or excuses, are simply presiding over a gradual fall in standards that will not recover.’ But not booing does not equate to an acceptance of falling standards. The point about offering vocal support is to encourage the players. I would argue that it's more important to provide support when we’re not playing well than when we are. If we only applaud when the team does well, it's more akin to a night at the theatre than football. And I suspect that as football has become much more expensive, particularly at Spurs, and more fashionable, the club has picked up some new fans who do view it purely as a form of entertainment, whilst we have probably lost some of our more vocal working-class supporters.
I'd like to see all our fans make a massive effort for the game against the spammers in a few weeks in reaction to the recent atmosphere at lane. If you agree, get the word out, twitter, facebook, mates, other spurs blogs whatever, get the word out that for that game we won't be watching a game in a library any more...
Spuds-U-Like... hear hear...totally agree. COYS.
More words of sense from Frank. People confuse dissent with disloyalty. Fans upset by performances who choose to articulate their feelings directly, are no less fans than those who choose to hold their tongues. After all, we are all supporters, and will be next week, next month, next year. Perhaps if players exhibited a bit more effort, rather than going through the motions, they'd get less clog. I would say the one player who does this more than any other, Parker, is absent. Maybe this is why there is so much bile. On Saturday the fans wanted an all out attacking approach, and we at Spurs don't do pragmatism. If we want that, we can go up the road. The booing might make Villas Boas understand. To dare is to do, not take one striker off and put on another.
For me any fan/supporter worth his salt will be both. I was stood on the terraces at WHL long before any of our current squad and coaching staff were even born and I will still be sat in the stands long after this current crop of players and coaches are but a distant memory. I will be both critical and supporting in equal measure when the response is justified. It costs an arm and a leg to watch football in this day and age and the players are hansomly rewarded for their efforts. Therefore if they play like donkeys they can and should expect a verbal volley, though booing as was administered at the weekend was probably a bit ott. Likewise they can expect, and do expect, a cheer and pat on the back when they do well. We as fans are not able to influence the team in any way other than with our praise or critiscism from the terraces so that is what we do and long may it continue.
pratts bottom
i would to no if HR had this squad, what would the opinions be, manager out hes cluess bad subs bad tactics?????, lets see if AVB can keep us where the clubs need to be were HR left us.
To those criticising AVB for subbing Defoe for Ade and think he should have subbed Dempsey instead, I suggest you watch a replay of the game and pay very careful attention to both Defoe and Dempsey. If you have any understanding of football at all, you will see why AVB took Defoe off and not Dempsey.
if we criticize Redknapp we are fans seeking what's best for the club. if we criticise AVB we are critics and a bunch of whiners. COYAVBS
NOOOOOOO!!!! Andy Carroll means Plan B = Lump It!

Some fans are an embarrassment but many clubs have at least some fans like that. 'The ugly and stupid face of football.' Who is a fan? Anyone who says they are. (It's no deeper than that as you can be stupid from the 'off' or be as intelligent as you are in other parts of your life.) It includes the casual admirer of a club right through to the obsessive. The one has plenty of other things to think about and do and so leaves the club professionals to get on with most of what 'Tottenham' involves, while the other has no such concerns or just neglects them in getting so hung up it seems to crowd out all else. I mostly avoided Spurs-based talkboards for much of summer with their prospect of three months of daily moans and hysterics about transfers just not appealing, and continued like that once the loonies hopped from anger at so-called late signings and possible transfers to whinging about preseason and the first Premier League matches. Whatever happens, whoever is involved, it should have happened earlier, or not at all, for less money or for more money, get rid of this manager, now get rid of the new manager too, and this player is demonised while that player is supposed 'saviour'. And childishly on and on, except that it's adults doing all this, people for whom adults proper have less and less time.
As for booing or not, it is a sign of displeasure, but at a ground like White Hart Lane known for its terrific atmosphere, a much quietened disapproving crowd would be much more effective and constructive than booing, and it wouldn't hit player morale in the process.
Criticism of the level I've seen lately would probably be warranted if we were languishing near the bottom 3, with an established manager and a fully fit squad. As none of those elements are applicable, this ott criticism is disgraceful. This is a prime example of a team and manager that needs encouragement. No-one is aking for rainbows and butterflies, fans holding hands and singing when we concede. All we're saying is: is it really that hard to use your voice right now to try and lift the team?
I've never once booed Spurs when at the Lane and I also could never bring myself to do it. I've become frustrated but that is part and parcel IMO. When I was last at the Lane for Westbrom I sat in the south stand and the atmosphere was generally really good. I went with my Missus and we both enjoyed ourselves. The only downer for me was the bloke who I was sat in front of who spent the entire match berating individual players and telling his mate how AVB should bring on this player or that. It got to the point that both myself and my Missus wanted to tell him to shut up. It actually slightly ruined my enjoyment of what was a decent afternoon (other than the 90th minute goal we conceded). I’m going tonight and hoping for a good performance and atmosphere to boot. COYS!
**I not going tonight as its Wednesday. I meant I'm going tomorrow.
Just seen this thread. Yo airwave, I think you're wrong there mate cos i've been to most of the home games this season and i can tell you a much quietened and disapproving crown has not been heard in many a year. The terraces are embarrassingly quiet, all you hear is conversations between fans and the other team's supporters. Its pretty shameful. ANd it doesn't seem to have had a positive effect on the players. As plenty of people have surely said, the booing was in response to the lack of effort and care coming off the players combined with the defensive set up. And obviously the substitution of defoe
Airwave unless you have played and experienced both, you can't say which kind of disapproval is the most effective, that is just your opinion.

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