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Too Defensive?

I for one feel that we will do ok this season and should finish 4th although this is more down to a poor Arsenal, a goal shy Liverpool and hopefully a small Everton squad that will falter in the later months. Hopefully the board will show more ambition if we reach the promised land this time and we will try to really push on!

The above said, one thing that really bothers me and I feel is costing us points is the overly defensive set up we are employing. Now, away to Man Utd, I have no problems with fielding 2 defensive midfielders and I like the 4-2-3-1 system for these games, and even home matches against the big boys. However, at home against, Norwich, West Brom and Wigan we should be looking to take these teams apart and I dont think that formation is right! We should be fielding a far more attacking line up for these matches and personally 4-3-3 would please me.

With the players we have this formation could really destroy teams and then once leading comfortably we could switch to the 4-2-3-1 to shore it all up. Now I know we have injuries but on the assumption that most players were fit, who wouldn't relish the sight of this lineup against West Ham in our next home match. Lloris Walker Vertonghen Caulker BAE Dembele Sandro Huddlestone Defoe Ade Bale. Bench - Friedel, Gallas, Naughton, Lennon, Siggi, Livermore, Dempsey. There are valid arguments for Friedel in goal and people may want to see Lennon, Siggi or Dempsey in the 11 but this shows that our squad is pretty good.

This line up excites me - solid at the back, a strong midfield 3 with the skills of Dembele, passing of Thudd and the defensive qualities of Sandro. Up front I think these 3 would tear teams apart - pace, finishing, strength etc etc. Lets be solid in our next 2 very hard games and hopefully come away with 4 points(that would be lovely). Then get back to the lane and rip into the Hammers and then take apart a fragile Liverpool to set up a nice Xmas for us all.

Written by cassieyid




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The journalist

Writer: cassieyid Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday November 6 2012

Time: 12:40PM

Your Comments

Far too defrensive when we take the lead.
chrishove123
Sorry to go off topic so soon, but I saw this really interesting interview with Edgar davids about the set up in Ajax, and they parralell us in their financial struggle so much, but they have a different attitude towards how they deal with it, their youth policy and how they use their academy which is nicknamed, the future. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9656788/Manchester-City-v-Ajax-Dutch-master-Edgar-Davids-puts-work-ethic-down-to-Amsterdams-conveyor-belt-of-players.html
chrishove123
Problem is cassie with a 4 3 3 formation it would need ALL our players giving 100% all the game and I don't know if we have the players to be able to do that, ref Hudd who runs out of steam and has no pace. Maybe once we get our full first 11 back it will work, but at the moment with no real attacking force we have to defend more because we can't score.
chrishove123
I never like the idea of starting with 2 DM's, pick a combo of Livermoor, Parker, Sandro and its never really worked. I think when we have more players back from injury we will have the ability to chip and change a little more. Looking at the players out, most have been out for the whole season, and here we are trying out different players ect when ideally you need a fully fit squad to work from. Nice article and i also think we can finnish in the top 4, even with the injuries we still have a talented side. I'm sure this is where the players and AVB see the team at the end of the season also. The team i would pick in a 433 would be Lloris, Walker, Caulker, Vertonghen, Ekotto, Parker, Huddlestone, Dembele, Lennon, Adebeyor, Bale. COYS.
SpursOne2
I often think we get too carried away with this or that formation. We talk about a particular formation being too defensive, but Man United often use 4-2-3-1 and I believe Arsenal used it in their 7-5 win at Reading. For me it isnt the formation, but how you use it and who is played. Can we for example really say that Dembele is a DCM when he plays. Same on saturday, did Sigurdsson really set out to play deep or was it just that they were over run by Wigan having an extra body in the centre and us simply not playing well enough?
oxfordspur
Yes, that worries me too chrishove, about being too defensive. A little less of the "hanging on to what we've got" when we're only 1 up wouldn't go amiss. OK when you're 2 or 3 up with 5 mins left, but not 1 up with 20 left!

Spuds-U-Like
Yes, we are too defensive. Our fullbacks need to push forward more. Looking at other top-table teams and even some mid-table teams, their fullbacks push forward much more than ours. Our central midfielders need to push forward more, often there is only our lone striker in the box and no penetrating movement from the midfield. Because we do not push forward there are too few options to pass the ball to. We often have to pass the ball backward to CB and then to the goalkeeper. The main problem seems to be our poor movement.
Jables
last season, everyone was demanding we played 4-2-3-1 today we demand we play something else. What is clear is that AVB is too cautious and whatever formation we play, that is where we are having the problem
oxfordspur
I never wanted us to play 2 DM,s last season regardless of the formation!
SpursOne2
Ox your last post was on point!!!
Ossie
I do not think that it is too defensive...it just ain't working. The high pressing thing ain't working. Having 2 holding midfielders who cannot pass is a problem. The 4-2-3-1 could work if BOTH the holding midfielders could pass. But all they can do is pass crab-like or backwards to Friedel...who hoofs it. Then the midgets up front cannot win the hoof, and we defend again. I would (personally) reverse the central midfield triangle: one holding midfielder (Parker/Sandro) and 2 slightly more attacking midfielders (Siggy, Dembele, Dempsey). For this to work, the "attacking" ones must NOT press high. There really is no point in pressing high if they are not keeping the ball in the opposing half! Spurs' biggest problem is that when behind, our formation prevents us from starting attacks from defence. Previous seasons had this right - as we were always capable of working the ball forward on the ground whilst still threatening the long through ball if the opposition were caught napping. This season, we seem to be waiting for a static Defoe to disrupt the shape of their defence, or ignoring Siggy's runs because Sandro and Livermore do not have the skills to pick out the pass. The formation also causes problems when we are ahead because we cannot keep the ball across the whole team. AVB must however play his way. He has to find a way to make it work. Just like 'Arry adjusted his beloved 4-4-2 into a 4-4-1-1 to make it work. As for 4th, I cannot see it. Transition season for me. 5th or 6th. Arsenal/Everton will take 4th - especially if Fellaini keeps fit. Immense player
TonyRich
We can play sublime attacking football (well we used to) im sure AVB will want us back to our best. I bet he tries to bring in a more attaching minded players come jan/summer. With the team we have (fully fit) we will be less defensive imo! COYS.
SpursOne2
Yes too defensive so far this season. Sandra and Livermore both in the centre is awful, not only holds us back but also prevents the other team going forward and closes the whole game thus stopping our counter attacking threat.

Biggest problem is our squad, we have 4 goal keepers and only 2 strikers!!!
T.H.F.Chris
Pretty much agree, the formation doesnt suit the players or they just havent got it yet. Either way playing 1 striker at home for me isnt enough, the balls to easily turned over putting us back under pressure. The formation appears to work away from home, whcih makes sense considering we should be the ones being put under pressure allowing Lennon, Bale etc to run into the space behind the defense. 1st half against southamton for example.
coys1717
SpursOne2 - last season was 4-4-1-1. That formation with 2 DMs IS definitely defensive. A "come for a point" formation. But 4-2-3-1 is a different animal. The fact that Sandro works his socks off, puts in some saving tackles YET the opposition STILL manage to pass straight through our midfield is very worrying. Chelsea made fun of our midifeld.
TonyRich
T.H.F.Chris - squad is lacking up front, but still miles better than what Wigan have to choose from. I can accept us losing points, but playing pants EVERY home game is not down to squad - which is still very good. It is down to manager's team selection and formation and tactics AND the players themselves.
TonyRich
I 2nd that Tonyrich, i was having a similiar debate on the last article
coys1717
Ox - Is it any surprise AVB is "too cautious"? His team is decimated, yet sit joint 4th in the league. But the slightest mistake & 'supporters' boo him & the press crucify him. If he was more bold he'd just be called "wreckless" or "clueless". The players will also be aware of this, and are getting the same treatment from 'supporters' as the manager is. Is it any wonder we're struggling to perform when every club representative is looking over their shoulder for the next attack?
coopsieyid
TonyRich - 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, still with only one of Parker/Livermoor/Sandro! Im not against a change of formation just not with 2 of the three named. COYS.
SpursOne2
No one up front to hold the ball and link play. Defoe only and he is just a selfish poacher. But considering Abedayor was a late signing then injured we have done ok. Not just defensive MF style of play. Things are still an an early development stage, young players now getting a chance, but if a have a criticsm in is the excessive use of Gallas and Friedel, but this will soon be resolved.
camper
Coops - if that is the case, then he should not have taken the job. He KNEW what he was walking into at Chelsea. And knew KNEW what he was getting into here. I would not call our squad "decimated". I think it is a better all-round squad than last season. Modric is a significant loss, but no one man makes a team, let alone squad. The additions more than make up for it - IF they are played correctly. If you are talking injuries, yes we are missing Dembele and Parker. But how long were Arsenal missing Wilshere and Sagna, and how long we Man U missing Smalling, Jones, Vidic, Young, Fletcher. The fact is that what he is capable of selecting week in and week out SHOULD be able to put together better performances than we have seen thus far. I believe that his formation simply does not work in EPL....as it did not work for Chelsea either with an even better squad.
TonyRich
avb is getting stick he deserves just like harry did
123spurs
a 4231 can be quite an attacking formation, used correctly. The 2 in the double pivot should never be two ball winning DM's...one is supposed to be a deep lying playmaker....either passing or dribbling....ie Thud, Dembele, Modric....it doesn't work with livermore and Sandro or sandro and Parker or parker and livermore....it's about the balance to a team the formation is a template the ability and natural game of the players is the most important factor...
shedboy2
we cant keep a lead so why do or else train the player to be able to adpat, last 15 min if games and we get nervous we panick we clealry dont no what to do, the manager needs to lay hes part in this
123spurs
I personally think 4,2,3,1 is too defensive especially at home and especially with livermore/parker/sandro as the holding two oh and with defoe as the lone striker. 4,3,3 is a much more flexible formation. It still has a back four which is important defensively so players know what they're doing, it has a midfield three of - defensive mid,box to box, and playmaker, all in the middle of the park. then with pace and attacking threat from the wings and a centre forward it provides good attacking ability... the only thing is, we should not set up in a 4,3,3 every game unless we completely re-haul the whole tottenham ethos and academy etc, and set up like barca/ajax. we could however adapt our system to beat the other team like how ferguson or mourinho sets up their teams...
rahn DMC
Coopsie, welcome back, but apology if you have been back for a while. Agree with your comments and as i have said AVB not given a chance either my Levy in transfer market or with injuries, far to early to judge.
Chelmspur
Walker, Vert, Kaboul, Caulker, BAE, Sandro, Djembele, Lennon, Bale, Ade. Yes I would like to see us go 3 at the back for a change
Horny Helen
TR your right we should be better than Wigan, WBA and Norwich at home, or be better than at least one of them! And your right about the mgr has the biggest influence but the squad also sets a precedent, losing modric, VDV, kranj, GDS,Bently, plus Pav in under a year limits our options.

AVB is a bit unlucky in we are a much better away team this year and obliviously home match draws and loses get bigger coverage i.e. if we drew with Southampton and reading, and lost to utd but beat WBA, Wigan and Norwich and were sitting 5th everything would probably look a lot more rosier. Fact is we're doing alright, just not good yet...need patients [and a better squad].
T.H.F.Chris
AVB's "stick" will only be deserved when he's screwing things up when his full squad is at his disposal..


Our club has literally only just embarked upon attempting to take the same path as the 2 clubs you mentioned. Training facility, scouting network, coaching set-up = ALL BEEN CHANGED. Yet people are expecting results after a couple of months of attempting to get this new system in place, let alone actually bare it's fruits? Madness I tell you!!
coopsieyid
Yeah welcome back coops, good to see your name floating around again fella!
SpursOne2
we usually loose to man utd so no points an we beat wigan same number of points
123spurs
AVB deserves stick for his handling of the Brad/Hugo situation alone...god knows what he'll do with a full squad?
shedboy2
123 - That post about usually losing to Utd etc = EXACTLY the point. Why can't this be acknowledged on a wider scale?

SO2 & chelm - Thanks fellas.
coopsieyid
shed - What if AVB didn't want Lloris?
coopsieyid
agree with the article point about being too defensive at home but have to tear you to shreds about the opening sentance. " I for one feel that we will do ok this season and should finish 4th" Why do you think this?? Have we ever finished above arsenal in the last 20 years?? No. So why with our worst squad in 5 years will we do it now??? Its so arrogant and dismissive, yet you set yourself up for disapointment every time. We are a top 6 team NOT top 4. We could contend for 4th but will we get it?? No probably not. So many fans on here are so delluded. We seriously need a dose of realism, this will only help the team and lift a huge weight YOU put on their shoulders. With our history I simply cannot undertsand why you think we should be top 4, its utter lunacy. Support does not mean being a blind fanatic. Unbelievable.
jimmy-yid
Holy $hit I agree with jimmy!!
coopsieyid
and ive only just got to the bit about getting 4 points in our next two games followed by ripping into west ham & liverpool. 4 points at Man city and the goons??? really??? 1 if we're lucky. Wake up son.
jimmy-yid
i think till about the southampton game avb handled the lloris/freidal situation well... he integrated lloris slowly getting him used to the english game... but now i think lloris must play every game, against wigan freidal proved that. He had played well until that corner which lets be honest, any quality keeper would have dealt with, 'keeping is about being able to produce quality at any given time, perhaps after having 90+ minutes of having nothing to do. I think freidal has played well this season - albeit i think a few of the goals let in lloris could've saved...
rahn DMC
Too Defensive? - Is that more to do with SF as asssistant head coach, the only time Sandro crosses the half way line these days, is when we change ends. To allow the full backs, Walker and either Vertonghen or BAE when his fit, to attack makes sense if you have Sandro and Parker holding, who i think does work if Dembele is the one in the middle, Lennon and Bale wide is the only option we have they both do a good job closing down and defending, it's more to do with the option up front and i would go with Ade, he offers much more in his game. Lloris in goal has to start happening on a regular basis, Walker Caulker in place of Gallas, Vertonghen, BAE, Lennon, Sandro, Dembele, Parker, Bale, Ade; We also seem to have done away with the ''high line'' now who's idea was that, my money is on Gallas, because he can't sprint back half the time. Would are best back line be Walker, Kaboul, Caulker, Vertonghen, with Lloris in goal. Defending is about doing it as a unit, we have enough attack minded players, when the best is all fit.
spu 4 life
yes, welcome back coopsieyid. I agree AVB needs the whole squad at his disposal and our results, had we had a fit squad would have been different in previous games. The loss of Dembele has been massive in my opinion as he fits into the squad perfectly. But, I agree with shedboy2 that the constant rotating of keepers is a bit frustrating. I can imagine if you are France's No 1 keeper and almost half the age of the other keeper you must be thinking wtf!. I acknowledge Brad has had a good season so far, but how long can AVB continue to do this before Lloris is truly miffed?
mountainyid
jimmy-yid - What the hell have arsenal got to do with her opening line?? The fact is we have achieved top4 in the recent seasons, each time with slightly different squads. This season we still have a talented side and can finnish up their. AVB also said this is where we want to be, where we are aiming for.. so i agree with the article.
SpursOne2
Gotta go pick my kids up now.
coopsieyid
if we beat city away, (yes, too)... I genuinely would not care whether we finish 4th... ;)
SpursWho
coopsieyid - A BIG WELCOME BACK !!!! and your allowed near kids again, that means the electric shock treatment is working?
spu 4 life
I think the problem is more to do with our failure to deal with set pieces then being to defensive................ We are too easy to score against from dead-ball situations!!
WestStandEnclosure
coops...Lloris was bought on AVB's watch..if he didn't want him, he should have told who ever was buying that he'd be wasting his money....the fact is Hugo is a Spurs player one of many that AVB had no hand in signing just like Brad yet he plays Brad despite being average at best and the fact that he is no longer an asset....playing Brad devalues Hugo and will be to the detriment of the club over the mid term...wait until Brad gets injured and AVB must win a game to save his job, i bet Hugo would get a back spasm/tight hammy etc..and whatever happened to Gomes??
shedboy2
We are a top 4 side, its just we have other teams to contend with..it gets close with the battles. Down to 1 point in places, goal difference in others. Its not being deluded to think we can finnish there at all. Your out order for saying that.
SpursOne2
jimmy-yid - And last season you said the same as well. Well we finished 4th. We were 4th best side in the prem for 2011. But not a top4 team?? Joke. Sitting there using big words like deluded, arrogant dismissive, luncy ect is not called for? Where the hell have you been for the last decade where we have moved up table to those positions? Exactly, in a cave probably by the sound of it.
SpursOne2
keeping with tradition... welcome back coops ;)
rahn DMC
welcome back coops, and that is exactly what has been going through my head, what if he doesn't want lloris? Then again as he said NO player has the right just to expect to just walk into the first team, he has to prove that he deserves the spot and on lloris' showings so far I don't think he does. Looks very nervy and drops balls, that would have got Gomez slaughtered on here. No consistency from some "supporters" on here. With a lot of people here it isn't how well or badly a player is doing it is almost a cult of personality. Lloris screws up and the majority leap to his defence, Gomez doe exactly the same thing and he gets slaughtered, Friedel does it and he gets a hammering but not as much as Gomez yet it is the same mistake. There is a subtle (serious) lack of objectivity on here these days.
chrishove123
hmmm did we finish 4th last year, 5th the year before, 4th the year before that after recovering from appointing a tactical genius of a manager who knocked us off track after finishing 5th in two successive years?? If he brings Bentley back from russia and plays him at RB we'll know we're screwed....
shedboy2
When AVB was first appointed I was very excited. I was hoping for a new manager with fresh ideas to take the club forward. Unfortunately, I have not yet been impessed but I think there are mitigating factors. firstly, I believe he media have been out to get him and they ridicule every decision he makes, secondly, athough injuries are no excuse, they have been to key players which would hamper any team. Thirdly, as Coopsie says he has not had time to get the squad of players that suit the way he likes to play. It is important that Daniel Levy supports him in the next transfer window. We must not end up wih compromises such as Dempsey, I would rather sign no one and use youngsters rather than take older players on large wages who wil be surplus to reqirements in a seaon or two. After all, I think the remit was to develop younger players. So despite all our doubts we must get behind the team and give AVB a chance, he is clearly a bright bloke wh is still learning. The booing at he Lane must stop. I creates a negative atmosphere for the players. We are supposed to be supporters. My god, have I just posted a posative article!!
jonathan01
WestStandEnclosure Surely dealing with set pieces is all about defending cz you have to defend against them. So yeah our defence is pretty abysmal all round At the moment.
chrishove123
welcome back coopsie!
Guernman
yep, remit to develop younger players...up steps Brad...;)
shedboy2
shedboy2 - hmmm did we finish 4th last year, Was that a typo? Sorry i didn't get your post
SpursOne2
spursone2....just trying to say we've been knocking on the door since BMJ the only thing that has de-railed us has been the appointment of a supposed tactical genius...I'd hoped the board had learned, now I hope AVB can learn, and learn quickly or we'll be back to mid table obscurity before we know it...wasn't sacking Arry supposed to progress us? (for the record I had no problem with Arry getting the boot (I did with Jol) but wanted Laurent Blanc over AVB)
shedboy2
i don't believe that AVB is instructing the players to sit back and defend for their lives as we did against united and southampton but when we go ahead the opposing team will fight back. We currently have three massive problems IMO which create the vicious defensive cycle so apparant at old trafford. No1 is Friedel's distribution. At united he turned over 12 out of 15 long balls. hopeless. friedel doesn't come off his line so the defensive back line is pushed further and further back, when defenders pass back to gain time and space he just hoofs the ball up and turns possession. His long ball accuracy is probably the worst in the league. as Friedel's distribution is absolute tosh and he ensures that we face considerably more pressure than necessary and pushes the team further and further back. I am certainly not anti AVB but this IS his fault because we have a keeper in lloris who would really solve these issues. The second problem is that without modric and dembele we have no effective playmaker to control the midfield and turn defense into attack, something modric was absolutely world class at doing. thats levy's fault as AVB wanted moutinho. Finally Defoe cannot hold up the ball at all so as soon as we are on the back foot as we saw in the second half at old trafford we have no outlet to ease the pressure and to turn the flow of the game. ade has been injured but if he is continues to be second choice than this becomes AVBs fault too. He has shown defoe way too much loyalty and the little mans response to being subbed is a disgraceful way to acknowledge that IMO. combine the three issues of bad keeper distribution, no playmaker and no striker to hold up play and you have the recipe for one way traffic towards our goal mouth.
Guernman
shedboy2 - That's cool thanks, i liked Jol, Harry, both played big parts in moving us upwards. AVB i agree, has to learn and i am not against his appointment. I feel the squad we have can do great things. I think jimmy-yid was being harsh imo. COYS.
SpursOne2
BREAKING NEWS; Controversial Tory MP Nadine Dorries is going on ''I'm a Celebrity get me out of here'' and could be away for a least a month. Is it to late to nominate Brad Friedel for the show?
spu 4 life
Agree with your 3rd post up top chrishove123, would be like attacking an angry lion with a blunt toothpick.
Guyver
@ chrishove123.......ref ajax:i know this is way down the line and very off topic,for this i apologise.i noticed this when they beat mank5hitty 3-1 in the champions league.ajax fielded a team worth either £2.5 or 4.5 million and beat a team worth £200million+.they also won their domestic league last season by 5 or 6 points but we have to remember that their youth academy is light years away from ours or any other in the u.k. because they have patience and build squads from its foundations as opposed to seeking out sugar daddies to buy sucesss.barcelona have also followed suit and look at them now. i'm full of admiration for this type of footballing ideology. ajax have been up there in europe since flared trousers,space invaders and ford capris were the height of 'cool.'every now and again the wheels come off as players are sold,the wrong manager comes in etc but 85% of the time they still finish in the top 4 of the dutch league and qualify for the champion league.i can't remember the last time i saw ajax in a europa type league.lets see how they get on today.another thing to note is that the ajax squad is made up of 75% dutch players.food for thought?...sorry to bang on about this....welcome back coopsieyid!
g. roberts testes
Once we are able to field the following team, we will be able to transition which is the key. We can go from a 4,1,2,3 with Parker the 1, to a 4,2,3,1 with Parker and Sandro holding to a 4,3,3 to a 3,3,4 with Kaboul, Jan and Parker in the back and Walker/Naughton, BAE and Sandro inthe middle and Dembele joining the front 3.
Formation is about transition and this team when we can field them will be able to do so.
Lloris
Walker/Naughton, Kaboul, Jan, BAE
Parker, Sandro
Lennon, Dembele, Bale
Ade
COYS
miamispur
Coops, just noticed. Welcome back!
miamispur
on topic this time......are we not under-estimating the loss of scott parker?this season it seems like we have been playing 2 DF when parker used to do the job mostly by himself.he used to sit back,(and ironically get criticized for this),and break-up a lot of the opponents attacks.which allowed us the luxury of modric and VDV not having to worry too much about this responsibility and if we are honset VDV wasn't exactly the greatest of tacklers or known for his work rate.with parker in the team maybe we won't have to be so defensive and the likes of dembele/sigurdsson/dempsey could go and express themselves......please don't bite my head off,its just a suggestion.
g. roberts testes
g. roberts testes Parker was/is/will be when he gets back to fitness brilliant at breaking up the opposition play and I also feel that we miss that vital quality of his in midfield.
chrishove123
g. roberts testes I k nw they are light years ahead of us in developing youth, but I thought it would be a nice article to read just to show that one doesn't need a sugar daddy to succeed and that we as a club run under similar financial restraints could/should be looking at going down this route in a serious manner if we are to get anywhere and stay there.
chrishove123
chrishove123......i'm in total agreement with you,and loved the fact you posted the link to that article as it shows what grass-roots football SHOULD really be about.having said that,i can't realistically see it happening at spurs.these things take years and even a decade to build and if we are booing our team after 10-15 games what hope do we have of building a footballing academy in the same vein of ajax or barca....at least we have taken a first step towards this by building a great training ground.now hopefully we can start putting it to good use and build for the future.
g. roberts testes
Chrishove-although i am not comparing our youth system to Ajax, it does seem as though we are putting more emphasis on our U-21 and U-19 teams.
this is not bashing Harry but he did get us out of the reserve league when he turned up, which i thought was a mistake at the time. Our U-21 team currently sits top of their group after demolishing Newcastle 6-0. Some of these kids will be stepping up and will hopefully be the next WHL legends.
miamispur
g.roberts, lovely post re.ajax and developing our academy long-term. I thought this was the whole idea, with AVB being one of the most highly sought after young managers in the world with a brand new training facility, stadium on its way etc. Like you said, too many idiots who want instant success. Very frustrating, but yet very predictable. Compare that to Brendan Rogers at Liverpool who is doing exactly the same long-term project yet despite their results being much worse than ours so far, the Scouse fans are much more knowledgeable, patient and appreciative. As i said, very frustrating, but what can you do? The Tottenham fans are just a bunch of Tony Rich's sniping away at AVB until he finally gets the boot. Typical Spurs. No idea how to build something special over time.
StillRickyVilla
i dont think that we are a negative side in the slightest. but key injuries will always mean that teams come on to us more. an coops welcome back son! agree with what you say as well. why are people even assuming we are in a crisis?? we are joint fourth an beat united away playing teams that avb prob would never pick if he got who he wanted in the transfer window an if we didnt have as many injuries.
BrooksySpurs
People say we are not as good as last season - yet ignore the fact that BAE, King, Kaboul, Parker, Modric, VDV, Ade have not been in this season's team. Thats a loss of 64% of last year's first team! And on top of that Dembele and Sandro (on Saturday) injured and Dempsey/Siggy are new and still settling in and without doubt downgrades in quality anyway. There is no manager alive who would suddenly get a team of strangers playing world-beating football. Look at QPR!! I despair at Tottenham fans i really do.
StillRickyVilla
SAf went through all this sort of $hit when he first took over mna U and they couldn't string results together. Now look at him 28 yes TWENTY EIGHT years later. If the boo boys there had been listened to back then, they would not be one of the most successful clubs in Europe today. Give AVB a chance and I am pretty sure he will come good. He has a certain philosophy of football which has to be learned by the players, he is learning his trade as well, so what better to take over Spurs who are potentially on the cusp of being a regular top 3/4 team and learning with them. He can't be that rubbish if he is one of the most sought after managers in Europe. It just seems that because we don't get INSTANT success some people are crying for his head. Instant sucdcess is the same as instant mash, fluffy and unfullfilling, look what has happened at man city, There are rumours of bust ups between mancini and players the team is performing nowhere as well as last season. Maybe because they have been found out to be pretty one dimensional BECAUSE of that almost instant success, they haven't had time to evolve and develop into a team with character and finesse which is what we need to do. It will take more than just one season may be even up to three or so but with a solid foundation we can build over the next couple of seasons and be back where we belong, up the pointy end of the table. I for one am willing noit to for AVB's head, but we must see the board backing him with right sort of finance and backing development given to AVBt as well as a fairly constant flow of improvement all round. If this doesn't happen then it is the board and the chairman who are at fault and must take the blame, not AVB. He can only work with what he is given and imho so far he hasn't done too bad a job considering.
chrishove123
StillRickyVilla......thanks very much.at the start of the season i remember being slated for even suggesting that if we finish mid-table this season but some of our younger players start to break through then i would be happy as we would have something to build on and AVB just might be the man take us forward on a long term basis.two steps back,3 steps forward etc....manure were another example.ferguson was on the brink of being sacked,but built a squad of players that dominated for 5-8 seasons and half of those players were under 22.2 of which are still playing and are legends up there.remember that famous alan hansen quote "you don't win anything with kids"?he was right to a certain extent as those kids went on to win EVERYTHING.granted i can't see that happening again at man u as they now buy young players and there is too much at stake,but wouldn't it be great if this happened to us...?unfortunately i can now see AVB being hounded out by the end of the season.either by the boo-boys or by the under-minding of levy or both.sad but possibly true.
g. roberts testes
chrishove12....kinda spooky that we're on the same wave length like this.
g. roberts testes
Wow! SRV bang on form. Last 2 posts brilliant! Especially the Rogers situation. How many of the moaners would want him at Spurs now? He wouldn't have stood a chance if he'd come, but no doubt it will be said on here that he would've done better with our players than he has with the ones he inherited at the Bindippers.

Spuds-U-Like
*sorry chrishove123.
g. roberts testes
The point is that even WITH the likes of Modric, VDV, Parker, Ade etc etc, our form in 2012 has been terrible. We needed a change of direction but it is going to take TIME to turn things around and build for the future. Unfortunately HR left us with a bloated, demotivated squad with nowhere to go. Once we have a settled team of Lloris, BAE, Verts, Kaboul, Walker, Sandro, Parker, Dembele, Bale, Lennon, Ade that's already a Top 4 team before we even start. Add a Moutinho and a new star forward things won't look as bad will they? Lets judge then. But until then boo-boys, SIT DOWN and SHUT UP.
StillRickyVilla
g. roberts testes No probs LOL. I just think that some people are more realistic than others and realise that sustained improvement doesn't happen overnight.
chrishove123
People are banging on about how the central midfield 2 isn't working, they can't pass etc all due to AVB's system and how Harry had made it work. Utter crap. On Saturday our central midfield was an immobile Hudd and a rabbit in the headlights Siggy. INJURIES AND PLAYER SALES MEANT WE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE! I mean Harry had England midfield general Parker and the world-class Modric transitioning the ball from defence to attack in an instant ALL season. Get a grip! Let AVB get his best players back, add a couple of new signings, settle the system in and I bet we won't be hearing this drivel from these idiot 'fans'. That's unless he's not hounded out before he even gets the chance to implement any sort of plan.
StillRickyVilla
SRV no1 is saying the 2 DM system under HR worked, it didnt work when it was Parker and Sandro our 2 best DM's under HR, so its unlikely to work with whoever AVB decides to play there.

Also I think people are getting mixed up between supporting the team and supporting the manager, I can guarantee that every Spurs supporter supports the team, just some are not sold on AVB, like those that wasn't keen in Harry last year.
Ossie
And there's only one guy who will bring the supporters his way, and that's AVB regardless of what is written on here.
Ossie
Ossie I don't call booing the team off at the end of the first half or the end of the game sup[porting the team.
chrishove123
Ossie, people are falling for any AVB-negative media *****e they can grasp hold of. That's why they are not sold on AVB. They are numpties who believe everything they read, including the snipers on here. We started the season with Sandro (who is a great talent but lacks the concentration and positional sense of the injured Parker) and Dembele (who replaces Modric as the 'link-man' between attack and defence but is obviously not in Modric's class in terms of speed of transition). So already, we are massively down-graded on last season - is this AVB's fault?? On Saturday our ONLY fit central midfielders still at the club were an immobile Hudd and rabbitt in head-lights Siggy - we are of course going to struggle in there - is that AVB's fault too?? There's a difference between being open-minded and seeing how things go and not judging AVB until he has a full-team and his own players - and being prematurely negative, cynical and sniping at AVB before he's even started!! That is not helpful!
StillRickyVilla
Just as the majority on here WERE sold on Redknapp because of his clever media one-liners, his '2 points from 8 games' strap-lines and the fact he had at his disposal the best set of players we've had since the PL began at a time when the traditional Top 4 teams were never weaker. We've gone backwards a couple of steps in terms of player quality, that is true and is ENICs fault (another arguement altogether) but the whole point of AVB is to build something SUSTAINABLE over the long term - this takes time and reacting like a bunch of idiots to a couple of defeats with a depleted team is just ridiculous.
StillRickyVilla
StillRickyVilla At least the heat is off for a while as the media seem to be concentrating on Wenger the whinger for the time being, so that should give AVB a bit of breathing space i hope.
chrishove123
SRV, ChrisH, and G Roberts ... So refreshing to see Spurs fans with a sense of perspective and realism. And also you guys seem to understand the nuances of support. It's not as clear as being black and white, where we only "support" when things are going brilliant. Circumstances also dictate your level of support, and right now, this NEW manager, with a team full of changes, with some class players out injured, needs the fans to back them up! How hard is it to get that? All we are asking is for some encouragement. If we were bottom three, with a full squad available, and AVB was established, I would understand the OTT negativity. Come on lads, just give him and the players a fair chance.
SpursEagle
Do any of you guys have access to JJetset's tweets? Apparently there's a lot of rubbish happening behind the scenes between AVB, Levy, and the team. All I can surmise is that AVB is getting stick from both ends; Levy basically has f@cked AVB with the lack of real backing, and further he is getting a lot of stick from our players due to his tactics...
dcruzer
Tonyrich, on another thread you said you were actually at the Norwich game at White Hart Lane. May I ask what team you were supporting?
matt hoten
If any of you guys can share the tweets, that would be great. My personal opinion is that AVB for the most part is being treated unfairly. If we wanted to be really competing against the best, Levy should have planned better than just approaching deals at the last minute with no second alternative option. Also, the players who complain should not even raise a peep, cause it's it their effort and product that's supposed to get us the wins when they are on the field. If players can't "break a leg", show passion (like Vertonghen, Sandro or even VDV when he was around), and have the determination to get the win then why are they playing or complaining? F@CK them, cause if I were on the field I'd been like a beast fighting/attacking (a Sandro) for my team and working together with my teammates to get the win.
dcruzer
SpursEagle, that is right. EVERYONE needs to pull together. I said when AVB was appointed that for the first time in decades everything is aligned for long-term sustained success from players, manager, chairman, the new training acadamy and the new stadium on it's way. My ONLY fear was the fans who i felt my react negatively to AVB's media persona and the Chelsea experience and then compare that with what they perceive as 'Harry glory days'. Unfortunately my fears have been realised - the atmosphere at WHL is shocking and (no matter what anyone says) IS having a massive detrimental effect on our home performances. Just when, as you say, we are massively changed and depleted and they NEED the support. Crazy.
StillRickyVilla
heard we were after carroll. hmmm could what fantastically, but not worth the risk although i do thinl we would beat arsenal more often than not with him. the way he would terrorise their defence would be ridiculous. someone with his aerial an hold up play an strength but with more class please. never really seen huntelaar play but if hes those things i just mentioned an available then why not
BrooksySpurs
SpursEagle I remember when we got relegated, I went to almost every home game that season, couldn't do the away games as I had to stay in the area due to my job, but we were a good team to watch back then even when we lost. there wasn't anywhere near the amount of viciousness or vindictiveness towards the players or manager from supporters. I just read this from a report of the season we went down. ........... Spurs problems centred mainly around Terry Neill’s insistence on selling off the family jewels. Mike England, Martin Peters Alan Gilzean and Martin Chivers had all left. Yet, players like Keith Osgood, Jimmy Neighbour, John Duncan and Ian Moores just weren’t good enough. One of the benefits of this clear-out, though, was that it allowed young players like Glenn Hoddle and Chris Jones to emerge. Sound familiar? and then there was this little gem about the last game of the season when we KNEW we were going down. . Some people might like to read this and realise what it is to support us when we are in real trouble not just going through a dodgy patch, .......... Suddenly Tottenham seemed to have some fight in them. John Pratt and Jimmy Holmes scored and Spurs ran out 2-0 winners. This triggered incredible scenes as fans streamed onto the pitch. There were banners of defiance, such as ‘We Will Return’ and the mood was fairly upbeat. Odd when you consider that West Ham had gone to Anfield and pulled off a 0-0 draw that would mean Tottenham were relegated. http://fmreport.simplygaming.org/t1715-when-spurs-were-relegated 
chrishove123
Too defensive...the headline could sum up the reaction of some fans to other fans who dare to say all is not well...AVB won't get hounded out by anyone, there's no vendetta against him...if he's as good as some people say he'll be here for years, if he's gone by the end of the year it'll be because he's simply not up to the task....handling players, Media, Fans, selecting teams, impacting through subs, tactics, formations, getting the right blend and balance are all important...being good at one (although I'm still to see which one) will not be enough...I hope he lives up to the hype he had in Portugual, I really do but so far he's living up to his Chelski reputation...He's doing a great job getting Hugo in and settled...good job we're having a look at that Irish kid, might end up in goal at this rate...
shedboy2
Shedboy2, you do understand that you need to give AVB at least a full season of FULL SUPPORT and a full set of players and a couple of his own signings before making judgements? You do understand that?
StillRickyVilla
Shedboy2, believe me, its those kind of snide, sniping remarks that WILL hound him out. You hear that sort of negativity all around WHL at the moment. Without the support of the fans AVB is nothing. We can either SUPPORT him and this new team or just carry on being negative and watch him and his team drown. Which is the best for THFC?
StillRickyVilla
If AVB wants everyones full backing then he has start helping himself ,stop with those schoolboy errors .
How many more games will lloris sit on the bench ?
Taking off the poor Defoe ? Yes but we needed a goal ,Dempsey was on a yellow & was just as ineffective .Common sense would have told you that when you`re 1 -0 down to Wigan at home you might aswell go 4-4-2 with Ade & Defoe uptop . Gallas ? wtf Caulker & vertonghen as Centre backs & Naughton to replace BAE ,Naughton aint a bad little player .
Bale & Lennon switching wings ??? It doesn`t work AVB .My pub football team does that but not at EPL level .

Support for the club is unconditional ,you love it whatever .
But sup[port for the chairman ,manager & players is conditional .On the condition they give it their all for the club & don`t treat the fans like mugs .
Man United away was a great day ,everyone was going wild ,brilliant & AVB & the team got massive deserved praise .
But Wigan was a farce ,& a predictable one .So therefore they got deservedly booed & hammered .
Some clearly love the players whatever ,but i only when they give it back .Even Levy has me worried for the first time in 12 years ,so lets see in January if he can make amends for screwing up the summer .
IMO AVB still has good 11 to choose from to beat Wigan at home .3 of those players on the bench should have started .
If AVb & the players can`t take the heat they should get out of the kitchen .
£70 grand a week ? takes me a year & a half to earn that .We support them enough already ,maybe they should start giving some back .Respect is a 2 way thing .
big cockeral
To me it wasn't odd being upbeat when we went down as it was all about showing support for the CLUB as a whole and letting the players know we were right behind them. THAT is the sort of support we need NOW. Not all this booing and having a go at AVB.
chrishove123
just be done with it and sack him!
merlin
coopsie.. welcome back mate... :-)
Block D Spurs
BIG C, you need to look at the BIG picture. Your first paragraph of that post is just looking at the minutae - YOUR opinions on who should play, who shouldn't, where and when. Its just your opinion, from a fan who doesn't have all the information. Like i haven't got all the information. Only those within the club have ALL the information. Although i am 99% sure that for instance Lloris and Friedal are COMPLETELY aware and happy with the situation and there is not even a story there. Again the media fanning things that aren't there and fans latching on to it! Lloris WILL be our number one, have patience! The BIGGER picture, as has been said over and over, is we have had a COMPLETE turnaround in players over the summer and half a team of key injuries - its going to take time - you do understand this?? Lets give him a FULL season (without making massive knee-jerk overreactions after every result) and then, and only then, start passing judgement - or do we have to make our mind up now after 10 games?? I also don't get your constant references to money. Yes they are well paid. But how much money they have in the bank has NOTHING to do with how well they will or will not perform on the pitch. One things for certain, if we boo, criticise and create a massively negative atmosphere it doesn't help.
StillRickyVilla
Now THIS is a player we could do with now. Alfie Conn. brilliant player who played his heart out for this club. I watched him PLAY many times at the Lane and he really was THE KING OF WHITE HART LANE.  http://www.mehstg.com/a_conn.htm
chrishove123
@shedboy2." so far he's living up to his Chelski reputation..." and what reputation was that?so much for a clean slate.
g. roberts testes
SRV= you do realise I'm an adult capable of deciding my own opinion...I support Spurs...not AVB, not Levy, not ENIC but Spurs..so when I proffer my opinion it's to help not hinder the club, perhaps a bit of fan power might see some common sense decision making (like Hugo playing)...if you want to be an AVB cheerleader go ahead because at the moment that is all you are doing....give me an A.....
shedboy2
StillRickyVilla....some 'fans' made their minds up the moment harry was sacked and unless we win the league or finish 4th,(at the very least),AVB doesn't stand a chance....and i include levy in this.
g. roberts testes
shedboy2 What makes you so 100% certain Hugo will fair any better than Friedel at the moment. I feel that the jury is still out on him. As I have said before he looks nervy when playing for us and has made a couple of blunders one of which resulted in a goal against us where we would have won the game if not fot that. Friedel does the same thiong and you want him out. Gomez does it and nearly everyone wants him out. Yes I know I was in support of Lloris going in goal but now after having seen his match performances for US, forget France, he doesn't exactly inspire me with the confidence i though the would. I just hope it's not going to turn into another De Gea situation whereby he was great in Europe but is just not good enough and robust enough for the Prem.
chrishove123
All I can say that its extremely easy to be an armchair manager, AND with the benefit of hindsight. So, what if he did replace BAE with Naughton, and he played poorly? You all know that he'd be getting the same treatment as Walker, and we'd have hundreds of armchairs managers on here posting that AVB hasn't a clue because Verts plays LB for Belgium so why can't he play there? If he'd subbed Dempsey off, and Defoe had continued to be totally out of the game, some would complain (not many, I'm guessing, because it seems Dempsey has already been tarred with the 'not good enough for us' brush after 2-3 games). And as I said before Big man, there is nothing I can do to change the disgraceful wages that players pick up. What I can do is support my team in a positive manner, give people a chance before destroying them, and hopefully that will help the team. I just pray young Caulker doesn't go through a bad patch any time soon. Oh, and Chris, thanks for those links. I was a baby when that happened, and never really heard much about it, and for some reason, never bothered to find out about that season! lol Cheers
SpursEagle
Shedboy2, you must be some boy to just KNOW that AVB is wrong about Lloris v Friedal. So you attend training every day? You have read the details of both Friedal's and Lloris' contracts? You have interviewed them both? You know their personalities, characters and leadership qualities? Your in there in the dressing room watching how they interact with their team-mates? You've sat in on the meetings between AVB and Friedal and Lloris? You know exactly what has been discussed and agreed between them? No phuck all that - just believe the crap they write in The Sun. Much more believable.
StillRickyVilla
g. roberts testes- the reputation of a flop....sorry it's hard to hear but that's what he did at Chelsea we can't just ignore Chelsea and focus on Porto there both on his CV although Chelsea is his most recent accomplishment...and no I didn't mind Arry going....but I wasn't keen on AVB and havn't seen anything yet to change my mind....only the Lloris situation to show he hasn't learned but it's OK SRV is 99% sure Hugo is happy, all's well there then...
shedboy2
SpursEagle No worries mate glad you found them of interest. I just felt there had to be some sort of perspective in all this and thought that might give some, plus i really rated Alfie Conn Jr and feel that he is a forgotten great of The Lane. Never saw his dad play but by all accounts he was pretty darn good.
chrishove123
Shedboy2, you quite clearly have already made your mind up. Phuck all the big-picture stuff. If we are not playing well and Top 4 by Xmas and not fielding all your favorite players then AVB out eh!?
StillRickyVilla
shedboy2 The reputation of a successful, winning manager who went a WHOLE season unbeaten. Yes it must be hard for yo to hear that, because THAT is how AVB is STILL regarded on the continent, as a very young and still learning manager with the potential to be GREAQT.
chrishove123
It doesn't matter if Brad is the better keeper...he's history, dead man walking, last year of his contract and no longer an asset...if Hugo is not up to playing for us then why did we shell out 12m for him? someone has dropped a major clanger...or are we so well off we can just spunk 12m???...SRV- so presumably you know all of that info do you? because the personalities would have been assessed during the scouting process, interactions with rest of the team should be MANAGED...give me a B! yea, go TEAM!!
shedboy2
chrishove123- you can try and air brush Chelsea out but it's still there...the emphasis has to be on potential and are we really the right club for a manager to be learning on? SRV- you sound like the one who has made up his mind....I'm happy to wait but I won't wait in silence. The whole reason clubs make so much money is because people talk about what happens...good or bad, to your liking or not....
shedboy2
shedboy2 You can't tell if a player is going to gel with the rest of the team until he is there and training with them. Just because Friedel is gone at the e3nd of the season doesn't mean he has nothing to offer playing wiser. We ALL knew Modders was off at the end of the season so by your reckoning we shouldn't have played him as soon as we knew, which was pretty much all season because he was toast and going to be history. Hmmm logic doesn't seem to be your strong point does it mate.
chrishove123
it's very easy to see the negatives that AVB brings with him from across london town but i do feel the need to point this out:who is Chelseas' star player of the moment?juan mata,right?and who brought him to chelsea?some Portuguese guy who now manages our club.its too easy to lay into the players and the manager with your head buried up Rupert murdochs sphincter but if some of us can dislodge our heads from the antipodean's back orifice and spin our eyes and ears 360 degrees (i.e have a look around)we may see that things are not too bad all things considered......don't believe the hype.
g. roberts testes
shedboy2 A GREAT manager is ALWAYS learning. a (rap manager THINKS he knows it all.
chrishove123
Even SAF has said he is STILL learning.
chrishove123
If AVB's apprenticeship with us means we end up great again I'm happy with that and so would you be I'm sure. BUT until then give the man a chance please.
chrishove123
Shedboy2, the point i'm making is we BOTH don't know but because the media have latched on to it as a 'story' you have in turn latched on to it as an excuse to beat AVB with - with absolutely no basis whatsoever apart from what you have read in The Sun. You say you have your own opinions? Well take a step back, ignore what the red-tops and internet gossip columns are saying, and form your own opinion then! Again we both have no idea what plans we have for Lloris, what has been agreed etc. He will definitely be our number 1 from next season anyway so what's the big problem?
StillRickyVilla
We're not great in either defense or attack. We've managed only 3 goals against West Brom, Norwich x2, and Wigan all of which have scored against us! Not good enough.
MrSpurs
shedboy2......i respect your opinion and your right to voice it as it makes for some interesting debate and shows the different mentalities of "fans" who "support" the same team........but AVB isn't just about porto and being a fan of our manager and wanting him to do well this is something you and other"fans" already know.yes he got his glory at porto but he was a decent manager before this......but all our "fans" know this already.
g. roberts testes
Sadly too many Sun readers on this site, hoping and willing that AVB fails, how dare Spurs sack rent-a-quote media tart Redknapp? Not that the world's football elite are queing for his services mind. By the way by who's standard did AVB fail at Chelsky? He was hired to revamp an ageing side, the old guard didn't like it and got him sacked, hardly a failure given the short time given to do the job. Having won a title in a major league and a Eufa title proves that he knows a bit more about football than most of us, let us fans give him a chance and Levy some decent replacements for Modric and VDV. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
No one is saying we are great now, but with AVB at the helm we could be again if he is given the right backing from the board and chairman ie getting in some top players of HIS choice, not more stop gaps and . How is our position a bad one considering all the injuries we have and the players we sold? Just asking. He as well as the team need the support of US otherwise what is the point, at the end of the day you HAVE to look at it the way SAF does EVERYONE in the club is as important as the next person, from the tea lady to the bog cleaner to the chairman to the owner(s), THAT is how a CLUB should be run and as such EVERYONE involved in said club should be supported by us.
chrishove123
ItalianYiddo It will make them feel so much better and boost their little egos to be able to say "Told you so, I was right all along and you were all wrong". It's almost as if they need to be right at all costs even if it is at the expense of our great club.------------------------------
chrishove123
shedboy.....also if 8 months at chelsea and things going wrong for you makes you a flop then sir alek must be one of the biggest failures in the history of football as it took him 4-5 years to do anything great at manure,and 28 years later he's still a flop right?i mention SAF because so far his managers path has been similar to AVB's.they got noticed at smaller clubs by winning in europe and thrust into the lime-light,both got off to a shaky start,man u stood firm and backed their manager,the chav's sacked theirs.....the rest is history/fergie time.
g. roberts testes
chrishove12........can you please type slower than me (if thats at all possible) as it just looks like i'm regurgitating what your posting.lol!
g. roberts testes
off topic but Ajax are the best example of how a football club should be run. all teams have to play the same system throughout their age groups. they buy players to play the system an their manager has long been associated with the club and has a huge say in all that goes on. not to mention the amount of top quality young players that come through their ranks. all this without spending big money on players and in a relatively poor league. yet they are completely embarrassing city. spurs need to implement this sytem.
BrooksySpurs
*argghhh...chrishove123
g. roberts testes
g. roberts testes I have already tried to show him the parallel between SAF and AVB but it got subtly ignored. He seems like he's already made his mind up about our manager and is now on a crusade to convince others of his opinion.
chrishove123
g. roberts testes Yeah it is scary isn't it. LOL
chrishove123
Whether you dislike AVB or think the sun shines out of @rse losing to Wigan at White Hart Lane is a terrible result.
MrSpurs
g. roberts testes Sorry, but great minds and all that LOL
chrishove123
MrSpurs, can you think of any terrible results at WHL last season? I would like to know...
ItalianYiddo
Plus, look how good Chelsea look now, since injuries, sales and suspension have allowed RDM to replace the guys AVB wasn't, and without all the dressing room revolt. And Good point, Brooksy ... I gotta say, Eriksen would be sweet in our MF. Although, our fans would probably have him fearing the ball if he didn't hit the ground running. That's another thing: Who in their right mind would want to come to our team when they see the kind of atmosphere we are producing?
SpursEagle
I'm all for 4-2-3-1 but you have to get the personnel right. In my mind it's not the 4 or the 2, it's the 3 and the 1 where we have the problem. Lennon is going through the motions but not making a high impact. He's not beating his man and he's very late switching on defensively. He is arguably not suited to to 4-2-3-1. Bale is just doing his own thing and not helping make the tactics works just like he did with the 4-4-2. As for Dempsey or Siggy, neither have the creativity to play in the most pivotal position on the pitch behind the striker.

Then we get to the striker situation. We have one striker, Adebayor, who looks the part tactically but never looks like scoring. Then we have our other striker, Defoe, who doesn't work tactically but might score.

When you add that all up, you can see it needs addressing. Some of it is fixable but I think AVB has to decide whether the transfer market is the best way of addressing some of it.
muttley
BrooksySpurs.....do we have the patience,time,fans to do this?look around you,read some of the older posts,not just on this subject but other subjects.the answer is there for us to see.with all this talk of 'AVB a flop' and 'conditional support for the players' and 'they earn 70 grand a week so i can hurl as much abuse as i like at them if they don't win games i expect them to win',can you realistically see a long term project like ajax working at tottenham?
g. roberts testes
I see that Isco, one of peterballb's suggested signings has scored for Malaga away at Milan. If I ever meet Levy I will suggest Peter as our next DOF. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
to be honest gbt no i cant, but quite simply that is why we will never have sustained success as a club. it just will not happen unless you follow the Ajax, Barca, even Arsenal to an extent role model. However, I do believe Levy has hired AVB for the long haul and a project and even having someone like Tim Sherwood who is doing fantastic with our youngsters, some of whom are real top quality, along with our new training facility, i really do believe this is a different spurs than i have seen before.
BrooksySpurs
isco an a striker is who we need. anyone able to get in touch mr levy lol?? even AVB???
BrooksySpurs
Sadly, Robert, you are spot on
SpursEagle
Just to add, 4-4-2 is a VERY defensive formation. You almost always end up with 8 of your players around your own box. FACT!
Tactically Challenge
ItalianYiddo - Isco is quality mate, as is Eriksen for Ajax... Isco also had a 15M release clause although i don't think he wants leave Malaga, and i heard somewhere that clause has now doubled :/ as for Eriksen maybe Verts could have a cheeky word ;) looks just like Modric on the ball, calm and collected... it's interesting watching City vs Ajax as they keep the ball so well and make city look ever so average.
rahn DMC
ItalianYiddo - what's last season got to do with it????? Why is everyone on this site so ready to make that bloody Redknapp AVB comparison - I don't care who the manager is 2 points from West Brom, Norwich and Wigan at WHL isn't good enough - or do you think it is?
MrSpurs
Isco is a must. Levy should of known about him two years ago. He was bought by Malaga from Valencia last summer. Our scouts should of had him in their sights ages ago. At least with Comolli we were pro-active in the transfer market, we seem rudderless at the minute.
Tactically Challenge
For the record i actually like AVB being our manager ,but he is making some baffling decisions that make you doubt him .
Gallas in his first year here was brilliant imo ,but he`s way off the pace now .Fridel V lloris ? it`s not even a close argument .
Does Bale & Lennon constantly switching wings actually do anything except make us look worse ?.
His substitutions seem to help the opponents more than us .
And you give massive support to youngsters coming through ,they need it .Caulker has been brilliant .But why do senior pros need to be motivated ? they know the crack .Wearing that shirt with pride is what i want to see ,not players strolling around giving it 70%.
Most of AVB`s problems are self inflicted ,he`s over complicating things when there`s no need to .And the players can lose a game & still applauded off ,if you think they gave it there all .But IMO too many players are hiding & not fighting or playing for the shirt .
AVB needs another summer window as Levy the numpty screwed him over ,but he`s making such hard work of this .
Replace the costly Pienaar with the even worse Siggurdsson ? yeah good one
big cockeral
BrooksySpurs Here is an email address i had answers back on so I do know they get read, whether by Levy himself (imho doubtful) or his rep, I don't know but give it a shot if you want. daniel.levy@spurs.co.uk
chrishove123
BrooksySpurs......i sincerely hope so.many thanks to.StillrickyVilla,Chrishove123,BrooksySpurs and even Shedboy2.nice debating with you guys this evening but it's beer o'clock and time to see man5hitty get torn apart by a real football club.
g. roberts testes
anyone think modric could make a return to spurs?? him an real just dont seem to fit at the moment...an bc i agree some decisions he has made im not too sure about but at the end of the day we know very little in comparison to what he knows. he trains with them everyday. ade and dempsey may have struck up an awesome partnership in training that week, we dont know. vertonghen may not yet be vocal enough or even ready to look after an instruct and lead the line, therefore we need gallas to look after caulker. in truth we know very little.
BrooksySpurs
I didn't comment on the SAF comparision because I think it risable...a comparison with Juande might be more appropriate..SpursEagle- you unwittingly make the case that he was a flop at Chelsea....the same squad that won the CL, were struggling under AVB...managing the ego's is part of the job!! But yes he must be special because he won the title with Porto, the richest team in the league containing Hulk and Falcao....now he was a promising young manager but imo that success at Porto short-cut him to a level he doesn't belong...yet. And I'm not on a crusade, I've not given up hope on AVB but I would suggest some are on a crusade to batter other fans into silence...it won't happen....we had it before with the in Ramos we trust brigade...that went well didn't it...if only we'd given him another 5 years!
shedboy2
g. roberts testes Thanks been good. Catch you later and take care mate. I'm off too now. Didn't realise it was so late. mancs 1 Ajax 2 after 57n minutes COME ON AJAX.
chrishove123
g. roberts testes- enjoy the beers....I don't take/imply anything on a personal basis....as for City having 'scouted' them play west ham...we could be playing them at the right time, if AVB gets a win there he'll get more time and who knows perhaps enough to make me eat my words...;)
shedboy2
MrSpurs, what last season has to do with, is trying to make you see that even with a squad full of quality players and with a manager that had four years to work with it we still had some poor results at home.
ItalianYiddo
BigC - So what you are effectively saying is that you will only support the team and the manager if he picks the starting line up that YOU want him to pick? You're a pheckin disgrace mate.
Hot_Spur
We got booed off when we lost against Sunderland at home ,it was dreadful .Harry was furious with the fans but funnily enough we went on a 17 game unbeaten run .
Some see it as counter productive ,i see it as a much needed kick up the arse .
big cockeral
Hot_Spur when did i say that ? But it`s not hard to see Gallas & friedel are not to the job no more
big cockeral
Italian - bad results are bad results regardless who the manager is.
MrSpurs
Agreed MrSpurs, I don't think AVB would have gone to bed happy on saturday night. All I am asking that we give him our full support till the end of the season. I was pro Redknapp for the his first two years and very much anti for the last two for various reasons, I think once you appoint a coach you have to give him the time and resources to prove himself/herself (not to offend any female fans, equal opportunities and all that)
ItalianYiddo
Big c - was that 17 game unbeaten run down to fans booing or the manager? I think it was down to Manager.
MrSpurs
haha thanks chris. out of interest was ur reply beneficial in any way, or more a thanks for your email kind of one??
BrooksySpurs
an gbt nice debating with you as well me old mucka
BrooksySpurs
One of the better posters on here in the last few years is back after taking a few months hiatus. Welcome back and a big hello from Down Under coopsie :-)
Madaboutspurs
what the fudge is the difference between 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1 and 4-3-3? Really? they all stand in similar places on the pitch all play with one out and out striker and a combination of 5 midfield types.
Audere est Facere
Wish I could agree with the author regarding us finishing 4th but personally I feel that without significant investment we're going to be a long way short (10 points at least). I fear for AVB if he doesn't get the backing for players that he wants to bring in, the boo boys are on his back already and he didn't select any of the players brought in during the summer. Vertonghen was identified by the previous regime, Siggy was intended to be one for the future but injuries have forced us to rely on him more than anticipated and don't even get me started on Levys 'Moneyball' signing of Dempsey. As for the keeper issue, we just have to trust what the staff see on the training pitch day to day. I'm sure if Lloris was the best man for the job then he'd be wearing the shirt by now. As has been said by others previously, it may well be that Lloris' English is hampering his rise or it could just be that he's not as good as Friedel and we've wasted £12 million. Let's face it, it wouldn't be the first time we've wasted money on players, Bentley, Bent, GDS to name but a few.
Granted, some of AVB's substitutions seem as confusing as the last blokes, although that could have more to do with injuries and a lack of strength in depth than anything else. Much as we would like to believe that we have world class youngsters waiting in the wings, we don't, we have some potentially good players but to throw them in now could be a big mistake, especially when you consider the hostile atmosphere they would have to contend with from their own "supporters". All things considered I think he's doing as well as, if not better than, could be expected. I'm sure he wouldn't be as defensive as he is if he had a squad of players that he'd built, rather than having to work with another mans tools. Add to that, our injury list, a new system being fine tuned whilst trying to pick up points, the media creating as much trouble for him as they can, a section of the Lane jeering his every move and the board hamstringing him before a ball was kicked. Not doing too bad really is he. I think he needs at least until January 2014 to build a squad and change our style, don't think he'll last the season the way things are at the minute though.
thfc1882whl
Good post there thfc1882whl. I am not even going to contemplate AVB getting the flick at present. It's only been 3 months. If Levy does his job of finding us some players in Jan2013 ( won't hold my breath), and if we get some of our injured players back then we have a chance of Top 4. Otherwise, I too think it's gonna be hard. This booing thing is really counterproductive. If we really want to get the players to up their game, booing is not the going to help at all. Why can't the SUPPORTERS see it on match days? :-(
Madaboutspurs
Madabout - Coz they don't want to see it.
Hot_Spur
First they boo at half time, then they boo at full time, then they boo at both half time and full time, then they boo when unhappy with subs. So, what's next!! Are they going to boo when one of OUR players lose the ball during the game! I know the players and our coach gets paid bucketloads of money and should not be immune to criticism from anyone let alone the fans. However, our prime objective is to get them 3 points and I do not think that booing our players and coach is going to get us there. Just my thoughts.
Madaboutspurs
Mad.. we are still 5th in PL, and fans feel we should be higher,, with better players, and 100% effort from our squad. Better decisions from management. AVB IS a good manager, he has a lot of injured players.. BAE & Kabul for example, half of our back line, and two of the best defenders in PL... Ade & Dembele...As coopise said.. the spine of our team....Yes I thought watching us play Chelsea from Upper East Stand, we do miss Modric, and should have brought in a player like him, but Daniel Levy had other thoughts. So i hope tomorrow at WHL I can witness the start of a 17 match win run.. but until our injured players are back, new striker & AMF / playmaker signing in January window, we the fans will witness similar frustrating performances as in the last 10 games. As long as we are still in 4th or 5th we can push on the run in Feb, March & April to get CL.. FA Cup.. and NOT collaspe as in last 2 years... COYS
Block D Spurs
Madabout, agree with your sentiments: "Are they going to boo when one of OUR players lose the ball during the game!" and if you recall against Chelsea, Dempsey was being booed when losing the ball. But its nothing new at Spurs. I remember the likes of Venables, Pratt, Beal, Peters being targeted over the years to name just a few. The expectations are just so high, despite our poor success rate in the last 40 years! Enormous pressure on new players, and its the sort of ground where when playing you are very aware of it. We've always been a "pint half empty" group of supporters, rather than "a pint half full"!
jacobslad
Have to say I am concerned with the injuries clouding peoples judgement on the Spurs we all love. We may finally have a fit Ade after his protracted move from MCity, shame he will be off to the ACN. Would like to see Huntelaar arrive as an upgrade on Defoe ( well hopefully an upgrade).

The arrival of AVB should help the arrival of some really good players, that added to the eventual return of out long list of injured may see us have a good final half of the season.

So perhaps we are fortunate to be in fifth place (or joint fourth)but perhaps the return of our injured and the addition of a couple may see a pleasant surprise a seasons end.

Maybe with some additions AVB will be able to substitute in a way that leases us fans.

Either way I am going to support out Spurs and will not boo, may well groan evey now and again ( and not in a pleasurable way ! ) COYS
ro6ertj
Spot on jacobslad, we are like that as fans & I remember that happening to those players back then too.

Spuds-U-Like
We Spurs supporters are going to have to re-educate ourselves, and change our views and values on the type of football we want to watch. I am afraid we now have a coach in AVB who lacks a traditional Spurs mentality, free flowing attacking football is totally contrary to his fooball phylosophy, he has a typically latin, "hold onto what we've got", it's in his DNA. Just as long as he is at Spurs, you can forget the traditional Spurs style. He is even quoted in the press as saying that "there is no need to strengthen the squad in January", if he really believes this, then God help us.
Frank
Off topic, check this out & weep if these idiots get their way:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2229166/Racism-football-Society-Black-Lawyers-10-point-plan.html

Racist tw@s!
Spuds-U-Like
As fans, we always want new players to join the club. We forget the other side of it though. AVB will already know that he is on a course of having 35 players to fit into 25 squad places within a year. We have 5 guys turning 21 - Caulker, Smith, Townsend, Mason and Parrett. We have guys out on loan - Jenas, Rose, Dawkins, Bentley and Khumalo. Offset against that we only have 2 or 3 out of contract - Friedel, Cuducini and Gallas. The maths don't work right now even if we had an infinite pot of money to buy new players. We have to get the squad numbers under control and keep offloading in January.
muttley
Madabout, next saturday afternoon when its miserably cold, jump on public transport and travel to the outskirts of the city/town where u live, head to an open air theatre where its still miserably cold. Go in and pay the man on the door 50+ quid to get in. Not watch the performers stand arounf on the stage looking bored and uninterested, mumbling and fumbling through their lines. Be so bored that you and the other fools that paid to come and watch this show are just all turning around in your seats complaining and generally just chatting away with each other cos the entertainment is non-existant. Don't foget about the cash you handed over to watch this. When the curtain comes down, try not to boo. Or think about the pain in the backside journey home. And that fifty quid hole in your pocket.
micyid
Frank - That's actually quite a positive thing to say mate. Fair play. AVB will also learn about Spurs DNA as well ha. 'Too Defensive' and 'Spurs' should never be used in the same line. But we can learn and hopefully become a better team to challenge for the title.
SpursOne2
Very profound micyid, difficult to find argue against it when put across like that mate.

Spuds-U-Like
Sorry, delete "find".

Spuds-U-Like
Point taken micyid.
Madaboutspurs
you were going alright there until i came to Huddlestone,he is total crap for a big midfielder he cant tackle,head the ball,or break into a sprint,all he can do is ping the ball all over the pitch,he runs along side players wont tackle,so my ideal 11 when all fit and ready lloris walker kaboul vert ekkoto-lennon dembele parker/sandro defoe ade
lisburn spurs
shedboy2 You can't tell if a player is going to gel with the rest of the team until he is there and training with them. Just because Friedel is gone at the e3nd of the season doesn't mean he has nothing to offer playing wiser. We ALL knew Modders was off at the end of the season so by your reckoning we shouldn't have played him as soon as we knew, which was pretty much all season because he was toast and going to be history. Hmmm logic doesn't seem to be your strong point does it mate.
chrishove123....where did you get that Luka Modric comparison from? you make up your own flawed comparison in order to prove your argument....one was an asset, one is not...simple logic.
shedboy2
micyid.. good post there.. sums up what spurs and other teams fans put up with...in a way everyone can understand.
Block D Spurs
Thanks Madabout!!
coopsieyid
BrooksySpurs It was more of a thanks for the email type of one but the thanks were in context to what I wrote , so at least i know it got read.
chrishove123
SRV, ChrisH, and G Roberts ... about fecking time so people started talking sense on here. I was beginning to get seriously hacked off with some peoples opinions on here. Yes you are entitled to them but F!!ck me its so doom and gloom around here at times. For the record:
1. Harry was not sacked, his contract was not renewed.
2. We are suffering so many injuries yet we are still in the mix
3. Stop giving the players all the stick, they have emotions, they were put their due to their talent not all players where from Rich backgrounds so stop referring to them as rich overpaid players. They are paid what the market thinks they are worth. They are Tottenham players get behind them and stop creating a negative vibe towards them as you look stupid booing your own team.
4. Learn to support your team and not constantly be a cynic, journalist, critic, analyst - you my friend are not the manager or an experienced international footballer who knows how it is. You are a supporter. if you are not a fan/supporter then you are one of the others mentioned above. In which case you don’t belong on a fans forum.
5. All respect due to the Tottenham away supporters who follow our beloved team everywhere, they are the 12th man on the pitch and look forward to the city trip with you guys.
I have my opinons and you can debate them as long as you like, see if I care two toots. Coops welcome back fella. Good to have you back.
G Star
I'll try and be more positive tomorrow night ;-)
micyid
I will be there, maybe i can help
G Star
Excellent post G!!
coopsieyid
Its good to have the whippersnapper back on board.

Spuds-U-Like
Yeah I like G Star aswell Spuds ;-)
coopsieyid
C'mon Spuds fans, You attacked Manuire at Manuire and played brill only defending for the last 10 mins as any team would when winning at Old Trafford, and you have played some great stuff this season as a Villa fan ive enjoyed watching Spuds, yes you slipped up at home to Wigan you won't always play well thats a fact, under Harry you slipped up many times at home to the likesof Wolves i remember but you still finished fourth, there is no crisis at Spuds only scare monguring from the media as per usual!
CLIVETHEVILLAN
 

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