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Defoe and Ade looked great!

Defoe and Ade looked great!

Okay, so many people got what they wanted and that was to see Spurs revert to a 4-4-2 and to play with both Jermain Defoe and Emmanuel Adebayor together. Firstly may I remind you how many fans complained about our playing an old fashioned and limiting 4-4-2 last season. Just wondered what has changed since? Last night it seemed to work out well. both strikers worked well individually and with the team as a whole, even if it wasn't totally obvious that they had a prefect duo understanding. what was clear last night was that having two strikers was double trouble for the opposition, but that opposition was hardly top draw in terms of quality, was it, so should we get too carried away?

Perhaps as a team our problem isn't really about whether to play two strikers, but whether we can play them with two out and out wingers as well? To their credit, all of Bale, Lennon, Ade and Defoe put in a good shirt when not in possession and are happy to drop deep and do their defensive duties, but even if we were to have our perceived best two central midfield players available, would we be confident of playing and beating the likes of City, United and Chelsea on a regular basis?

A team of Loris, Walker, Kaboul/Caulker, Vertonghen, BAE; Lennon, Sandro/Parker, Dembele, Bale; Defoe and Adebayor, probably wouldn't be a million miles from what many of us would pick as our best XI and that looks remarkably like a 4-4-2, but though looking great on paper, is it really solid enough against either the very best or against teams that will look to park the bus and frustrate?

To a degree, I don't really like to get too carried away with this or that formation, but prefer to look at a teams fluidity, flexibility, fitness and function. By that I am looking at how easily a team can adapt and counter an opponents strengths and exploit its weakness. Sure on occasions you will have to look at who fits in better and maybe drop a striker to bolster the midfield, but could that be equally effective by losing a wide man and expecting more attacking input from your full backs. For example would dropping Lennon and if fit, adding Parker with Dembele and Sandro make us any less of an offensive threat?

That question was nothing to do with a lack of ability in Aaron Lennon, who for me has had a very good season, but clearly we are either looking to fit 13 players into an 11, are unrealistic or simply need to ultimately bring in or develop players that have even more versatility or at least the qualities to play the way we ideally like. For example, could Lennon be better in front of goal? Could Adebayor or Defoe work the wide areas better? Probably a yes in both cases, but unless we can bring in the likes of Hulk, Remy or whoever, we might always have this argument and never really resolve it.

On the appointment of AVB many of us were either happy to see change and also accepting that we would give him time to make them. What is never clear is whether we would be better to slowly make changes based around what we felt was a wrong and outdated system or to bite the bullet and get the team to work towards a new formation and way of playing from day one and look to bring in players to fit that system. Problem any manager has is that they so rarely get the time to take a slow approach and unless big chance offers instant success, it is usually dismissed by fans who lack the patience or vision to understand what is happening.

In recent years, fans and media have become obsessed with this or that formation and usually whatever a team is playing is wrong. As a nation we have always reverted to a standard 4-4-2 and we hear our players like it, and we all understand it, but can't resist talking up a 4-4-1-1 or whatever, even if the change is change is minimal or we don't ideally have the players to play it well enough. To be honest, I would be very tempted to play both strikers at City and also both wingers, particularly if Sandro is fit again. City look fragile at the back and will also probably play two strikers. Of course of we play that way and get beaten, AVB will have got it wrong and should have been more cautious. I guess the real thing here is that we need to relax and accept that a manager is only right when he is winning and even then he could be doing better...



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:OxfordSpur
Date:Friday November 9 2012
Time: 11:41AM

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Comments

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Lund chaud
JattYid
09/11/2012 11:53:00
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It may have looked good, but Maribor are a) Not very good, b) Not English, c) Playing in Europa league. Defoe is not likely to score goals like that against Citeh, nor most of EPL
TonyRich
09/11/2012 12:03:00
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Dempsey is classed as a forward, so at 1st glance we played a 4-4-2 with Defoe & Dempsey when the team won at Old Trafford... but we didnt play a 4-4-2 as Dempsey dropped off and was a 5th midfielder... Ade was similar yesterday albeit with the ability to convert to a full-blown striker when needed within 5 seconds of winning possession and giving us 2 in the box to aim at. Ade also gives us AN OUTBALL WHEN UNDER PRESSURE by teams pushing for equalisers - something we patently lack with just Defoe up top, enabling many teams to score next after Spurs have taken leads, this happens alot... Ade + Defoe 'upfront' with Ade in the free 'Cazorla' role able to roam where needed, either midfield, in the channels or even dare I say it upfront and in the box when Bale or Lennon are attacking wide with pace.... this is most definately not a dated 4-4-2 and if we regress into playing a midfielder like Siggy or even Dempsey regularly behind Defoe, Spurs will now deserve everything they get this season
Viyyash-Ramosh
09/11/2012 12:09:00
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Tony - Until he does then the next thing Defoe bashers will say is that but he wont do it again and it was a fluke. I dont read other teams forums or anything but i wonder if other teams fans bash their heroes the way some of you do on this site? This is not a dig at you Tony as you have just stated a fact above but whenever i go to games i never hear abuse for Defoe,Lennon etc just on this site COYMFS!!! Caulker in for Daws, Sandro in for Hudd and as your were would be my line up against Man Cheaty they are vunerable lets go for the jugular
JattYid
09/11/2012 12:14:00
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I agree with TonyRich's tone. We were not good last night, far too sloppy all over and both Adebayor and Defoe (yes, I know he got a hat-trick) should be embarrassed that they only got three between them given the continuous service provided by especially Gareth Bale. Adebayor should be told nicely that he should phukking wake up now. Young Kyle Naughton should be smacked against the head for that back pass and young Hugo should be told to sit down and watch how Brad does it, while he still has a chance. How were we still not ahead at halftime? We should have dispatched this poor team after 20 minutes, not allow them to live with us for almost an hour. I hope someone there realises the opposition this weekend will be much stronger.
Shannon
09/11/2012 12:16:00
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I'd brink in Gallas and Caulker for Daws and Naughton and Sandro for Carroll. Tell Ade to drop off - as he did last night. Go at city down the flanks utilising Hudd's passing accuracy to free up the pace of Bale & Lennon - maybe even Defoe. We'll no doubt spend a fair bit of time on the back foot, but the threats of our pace should rein in City.
scoops50
09/11/2012 12:35:00
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Jattyid, only on this site would you wake up to negativity and player bashing, after a good important Euro win, a JD hat-rick and a rousing performance from both team and crowd. I advise to look elsewhere, this place is a nightmare. I really hope i am in Amsterdam in May on a famous night for our club. I bet even on that night there would be the usual culprits on here moaning and whinging about something or other.
StillRickyVilla
09/11/2012 12:42:00
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Shannon so glad im not your child as seems like he would get belt round me a55 every day! I dont understand your continued service and embarrased of misses comment tho as the game i watched i dont remember other than that Ade scoop round the post volley too many missed chances?
JattYid
09/11/2012 12:43:00
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I actually thought at first that Shannon's post was being sarcastic. Someone shoot me now!
StillRickyVilla
09/11/2012 12:47:00
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Ade and Defoe worked really well with Bale and Lennon. You couldn't put Lennon in front of goal - he's shot shy. I liked the interplay and passing and fluidity of the team yesterday and for me it was more about attitude than formation. Naughton and Carroll equited themselves well, but you'd really want Parker and Dembele in the middle with Kaboul and BAE at the back. Not that anyone played badly last night. I'm not a massive fan of Sandro,but only because he never passes forward. He's solid in a defensive role and is adequate as a back up for Parker. Incidently now Lloris has shown he's not perfect perhaps the pundits will let AVB choose his keeper. Lloris is for the future - the very near future - BF can't go on for ever. Overall I think Ade and Defoe up front is scary to any defence and that is what we need to put into the team the same fear factor as facing RVP and Rooney.
SPUDMAN
09/11/2012 12:49:00
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Jattyid, consider: What would the Newcastle strike pair have done with the balls flying in from Bale seemingly every five seconds? Or Rooney and RvP? Or Balotelli and Aguero? I know those are all exceptional players, but our guys need to buck up. We were up against a poor, poor side and it would have been nice to lay down a marker, not allow them to actually equalise and go in level at halftime. SRV, please don't go, its not negativity, just fact. And as for my child, I think he should have got belted around the ass more. Its probably too late now though, but I'll have a go. LOL.
Shannon
09/11/2012 12:53:00
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@Viyyash-Ramosh - 'Ade also gives us AN OUTBALL WHEN UNDER PRESSURE by teams pushing for equalisers - something we patently lack with just Defoe up top, enabling many teams to score next after Spurs have taken leads, this happens alot...' That is the most accurate statement i've seen all year. So much truth in that, its not even slating little JD, I think he tries, I think the weight training last year HAS paid off, but that doesn't change the defenders mentality when he has the split second to decide whether he's confident trying to knock it up to him. The image of Deoe waiting and Jan/Kyle/Other Kyle/Billy/Caulker and the defender losing the ball sums up our season, I don't blame any of the players, but equally dont blame the manager either. It'd be nice if some fans realised that blame doesn't always have to be place, we're doing bloody well to be where we are this year losing VDV/Modric and getting a whole new manager and set up.
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
09/11/2012 13:00:00
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At last a Spurs team, looking as though it was a Spurs team. We played a familiar system, we had two wide men going down the lines getting crosses in we wee keepingthe ball, attacking, we een carrie on attacking after the first goal, surprise surprise. AVB look very subdued for much of the ame sitting down rather han cavorting up an down the touchline, I wondered if he ha ha his arse kicked by Levy since the Wigan game, or the crowd reaction ha got to him. I know it is conspiracy theory but was there any significance in Klinnsman sitting cosy with Levy, could there be a DOF appointment in the offing. I was pleased not that it happened, but that the goal gaffe happened to Lloris not Friedel, otherwise the vultures would have really been circling, rather than the relative acceptance on Lloris's behalf. In fairness you woul have kicked the arse o an U14 Gker for that, it just wanted row Z ing, Lloris is a keeper not a MFer and should remember it.
Frank
09/11/2012 13:02:00
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Bale was unbelievable yesterday Shannon, but i seem to remember one cross across the box which was way to ahead of Defoe, another byline cut back which went way past Adebayor and several other floated/drilled crosses which were no where near Ade/Defoe. Im not bashing Bale for this but countering your argument of Ade/Defoe missing embarrasing chances. Even your Newcastle/Man City/United pairs would have struggled to convert those.
JattYid
09/11/2012 13:02:00
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Jatt your first post was spot on!!! TR is one of the better posters I feel, but he is a doesn't rate Defoe at all.

As for Defoe and Ade yes they looked good, and yes it was against Maribor, but you can only play against who's in front of you. I hope AVb plays that system alot more of home and away in some games, but obviously not on Sunday.
Ossie
09/11/2012 13:04:00
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Each of our strikers is a 4-4-2 striker. None have the combination of pace, strength, skill on the ball and cutting edge that a true lone striker needs. Yes, Defoe scored 3. Had had 5 glorious chances when finally he managed a goal. This is the real problem. All the created chances that go for naught. How many of the great Bale, Lennon, Walker etc crosses were met? This is the problem. Chances have been created all year long. We need to start converting these opportunities. Lazio were dominated by us. So were Panathanaikos. Means little if the end game is to throw in a cross for a striker who won't be there. 8 goals in over 1000 minutes. That's ok, but 5 are from 2 appearances. These stats should look eerily familiar. It's every year. We need better if we are going to contend. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 13:09:00
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Jatt, how many more Bale crosses will it take Defoe to figure out what he has to do? The have probably a hundred games together. Sorry. This has never worked. These crosses are wasted opportunities every game. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 13:13:00
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Agreed JattYid on the Bale crosses and the effectiveness of some of them. On another subject, re. our MFer selections. Last night young Carroll was excellent, his passing accuracy whether long, or short, was impressive, he got about the pitch, showed a great engine, sought the ball, had a hand in the goals, very impressive. I personally think he considerably out shone Huddlestone, who apart from one or two passes showed his usual frailties, lack of pace, lack of mobility, a failure to use his considerable physical attributes in tackling or ball winning, and "coasting" most of the game. Carroll looked to me a better bet to partner Sandro, at least until Dembele returns, his increased mobility must be avantageous both in attack, and when tracking back if we lose the ball, and his passing ability, particularly with his left foot, means Huddlestone wouldn't neccessarily be missed. I am afraid Huddlestone has gone backwards.
Frank
09/11/2012 13:17:00
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4-4-2 gives us another option, AVB has more amo. I don't think we are reverting to it thou, just that AVB made the right call for this game at home. I would also like to see all 3 forwards on the pitch in Ade, Defoe and Dempsey at some point.. Sigurdsson didn't get a game this time, he could work well with them both as well. Our coach needs to continue and have freedom to imply his own ideas as well, but this shows he can approach games in different angles. COYS.
SpursOne2
09/11/2012 13:20:00
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lol Peter, not sure we was watching the same game, I didnt see the first 5 chances Defoe missed before he scored and I was at the game.......lol, you finding it real hard to give credit where it's due.

U complain about him only scoring 5 in 1000 minutes, where the top scorer of the league has 8 and only 4 other players have scored more
Ossie
09/11/2012 13:21:00
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peterballb - in the past 2 seasons how often have you seen bale hug the touch line like he did yesterday? hardly ever and when he has in the past i recall goals being scored, walker against bolton, ade vs chelsea, vdv vs stoke. Defoe was hardly in the team last season to be at the end of his crosses and yesterday he feel Defoe played off the shoulder brilliantly and converted 75% of his chances. We all know his stats and his flaws but anyone dissing the boi for what he did yesterday has got some really high standards on how a striker should perform
JattYid
09/11/2012 13:25:00
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It was not a 4-4-2, just because there were two players recognised as "strikers" does not automatically mean it was 4-4-2. The formation was not really any different to what we have been playing, the difference was Ade playing behind Defoe instead of Dempsey. Ade was outstanding, he was everywhere, making himself available throughout the whole game, doing the link up job we have been missing.
Hot_Spur
09/11/2012 13:27:00
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Anyone want to discuss the merits of Dawson last night..... He has hardly played all season and slots in and I thought was outstanding especially with his ..... dare I say it...... 50 yd passes. He didn't miss one. All perfectly to the foot or chest of our wide men. I still would have him in for Gallas every day. We had a leader on the pitch for once.
COYS R US
09/11/2012 13:30:00
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Only on this site would a guy score a hat-rick and get slated! According to the charts he has 1 goal in 2 games, according to just about everyone apart from on here he's on fire and i might be wrong but does last night put him top scorer in the entire country this season!? Must be at least Top 3. No, he is not the absolute best, but to keep hating on JD is ridiculous. As JattYid says, you never hear it at WHL (or anywhere else for that matter).
StillRickyVilla
09/11/2012 13:32:00
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JattYid - I have never abused any of our players, and I did not intend for it to be so. My point was poorly explained. I meant "Defoe in that system" will not score goals like that. The opposition left him open a lot more than general EPL teams would. I have given Defoe credit where it is due. He did good stuff vs Man U, and Chelsea - when I have previously doubted his ability to perform against big teams. I just personally get annoyed when people refer to Defoe as a "15-20" a season striker, when statistically he isn't (even if you only count seasons where he started 20 league games or more). He has got a blistering shot, but people describe him as a natural finisher - but why does he miss so many penalties? Defoe is Defoe. A guy who only has eyes for goal. A guy who is actually quite loyal. A guy who is very skillful on the ball. Has a rocket foot. Premiership quality, but I do not think top 5 quality because he waits for things to happen, rather than makes them happen. His hatrick was no fluke however, and cup football is right up Defoe's alley.
TonyRich
09/11/2012 13:32:00
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Lets see whether AVB learns from last night, or whether he will stubornly return to his more dour, defence orientated, computor generated, spread sheet, and clip board inspired formations
Frank
09/11/2012 13:34:00
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Just looked it up. JD is 3rd highest goalscorer this season in the entire country. Behind Van Persie and Suarez (another striker people on here say is crap?). As i say, only on this site.
StillRickyVilla
09/11/2012 13:37:00
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I have to agree with peterballb about converting crosses. No dissing of any of the two as they both had great games. But at times I wanted Ade in Defoe's position or vice versa to head them home. Also agree that what we gain by playing both Defoe and Ade, is Ades presence and height and Defoe's speed and killer finnish from his foot. If they both had this then we would stick with one upfront. But we do get more with them both together. I’m afraid I would still pick Ade over Defoe if it was for a formation with only one forward.
SpursOne2
09/11/2012 13:43:00
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If we were to try and replace who wouldd we ge in for a price that Levy wouldd be prepared to pay, answer we have already seen Andy Booth, Gregor Rasiak, Louis Saha. We allegedly make bids for the Rossis, and Llorientes, and Huntelaars of this world, but do we, because nothing ever happens. I would suggest that we put up with Defoes limitations because we don't have the nouse to find the bargain strikers i.e. Hernandez, Jelavic, Cisse, Ba, Fletcher etc.etc. and lack the financial will to sign the more expensive candidates.
Frank
09/11/2012 13:44:00
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SRV im sure if Greaves or Lineker would have got slated had they played now...maybe Lineker didnt apply himself as the **** never got booked lol
JattYid
09/11/2012 13:45:00
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SRV - Defoe is far from crap mate. I heard he is now 2nd in our all time top scorers now?
SpursOne2
09/11/2012 13:46:00
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Tony as i said above it wasnt a dig at you....btw correct me if im wrong has defoe ever had a proper season i.e 30+ starts?? Im not saying for one second that he would get 20-25 goals in a season, but no striker has a perfeck season (apart from Van *****ie last year) every striker will have 5-6 games spells without a goal, but defoe in his pomp would have reached at least 20goals if played regularily. Obviously im not basing that on fact just my opinion. I also disagree with your point where Defoe waits for somet to happen, remember his goal against Le Ar5e in 5-4 game? Iv seen plenty of times where he forces the issue
JattYid
09/11/2012 13:50:00
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StillRickyVilla - Defoe is the joint 5th scorer in EPL after 10 games. That is the only way you can realistically compare - just League games. Same number of games, same level of opposition. His goal rate is SO FAR good this season. If the guy gets 15+ in total by end of season, then I will applaud him.
TonyRich
09/11/2012 13:50:00
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SO2, I agree with your last post, and I was wishing Ade would score yesterday so he might have a better chance of playing sunday.
Ossie
09/11/2012 13:51:00
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SpursOne2 - This is like Defoe's 10th season in a Spurs shirt. Yes he all accumulated some goals across a decade, but actually his premier league goal record should be better.
TonyRich
09/11/2012 13:53:00
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JattYid - Defoe has had 5 or 6 seasons with 20+ league starts. If you count just those seasons, he is 1 in 3. Which ain't bad, but far from spectacular
TonyRich
09/11/2012 13:56:00
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COYS R US "We had a leader on the pitch for once". Glad to see that someone else appreciates what Dawson means to our team. He is a must against City and especially Dzeko.
dannylane
09/11/2012 13:59:00
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It would have been the icing on the cake for him Ossie, i was screaming for him but alas. Defoe deserved his goals thou, so credit where its due
SpursOne2
09/11/2012 14:00:00
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What the eck is wrong with 1 in 3 then!?!?
JattYid
09/11/2012 14:03:00
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Defoe is 1 in 2 games when you base it on minutes on pitch. If he played 38 leagues games for 90 minutes he would score 19 league goals I guarantee it. Remember for many many years he was playing 2nd fiddle to other partnerships, got subbed a lot, or was on the bench a lot. You have to take that into consideration. Not saying he is perfect by any means and it is disappointing he never developed he's all round game. But play him consistently and you know what you get - 1 goal in 2. Frank makes a good point, I wonder if we will miss that kind of strike rate when he's gone. Arse have currently shelled out fortunes on the likes of Giroud who's hardly scored. You will always be able to find fault in ANY player if you look hard enough. Lets just for once enjoy last night's performance and applaud JD for a well earned hatrick.
StillRickyVilla
09/11/2012 14:05:00
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SRV - I'm not the biggest fan of Defoe as you probably remember from the debate a few weeks ago. Yesterday I applaud his finishing, very impressive. There are two BUT's I want to throw in. 1) Maribor are hardly a team to score a hat-trick against and then get REALLY excited 2) I read above JD is ranks 5th in EPL terms, now bare in mind as EVERYONE keeps banging on about it, we have played the bottom 6 and from our 10 games. So statistically his goals will dry up or will he keep performing against the top. Let's judge after City and Arsenal away. Well played JD last night, credit where it is due. Don't get too excited yet as TonyRich mentions, lets judge him at the end of the campaign as with all from Levy and then AVB down to the playing staff
yiddyboy
09/11/2012 14:05:00
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JattYid - I never said that he "never" does that. I just think that he is unable to do it enough. I am not having a dig at him. Everyone has limitations. He just has a curious record. Why has he scored over 13 league goals in a season once in a 10-year premiership career? He is not started enough? Well, why? There must be a reason. Why when he was sold, he went for only 6m? Why Pompey, and not a top 8 side, let alone top 6? Why is his penalty record so bad? Why is his assist record so low? Why does he get offside so often? It is just curious.
TonyRich
09/11/2012 14:06:00
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StillRickyVilla - mate, you cannot guarantee it. Goals from the bench pervert the stats, so you cannot project it that way. If someone comes off the bench for last 10 mins in 3 consecutive games and scores 3, then if you project it, he is scoring 1 goal per 10 mins. 2009-10 18 goals in 34 - excellent record - just over 1 in 2. 2004-5: 13 in 35 ok record - but far from 1 in 2. This last one is a more typical Defoe season
TonyRich
09/11/2012 14:13:00
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Well said TonyRich. He's a good pro, definitely not International material. IMHO his not good enough for Spurs or at least where I think Spurs want to be!
yiddyboy
09/11/2012 14:15:00
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Oh and i don't go along with this modern fascination that the only thing that counts, the only competition worthy of anything is the b1oody Premier League. Its so arrogant and dismissive of all other nations, competitions, teams etc. I agree the EPL is the richest and has the best the brand marketing and is basically one big money-making machine. But football? We are so delusional.
StillRickyVilla
09/11/2012 14:15:00
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(1 goal per 10 mins projects into 9 goals a game, right?)
TonyRich
09/11/2012 14:15:00
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Thats your opinion i guess and i have mine. One thing i do know he is marmite on Vital Spurs but outside of here most prem clubs bar manchester would take him in a flash
JattYid
09/11/2012 14:17:00
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Tony, equally you can't blame Defoe for a few poor average seasons when he only playing 20 minutes a game! Its goals per minutes on the pitch that counts over the long-term! I think its around 0.6 per 90 minutes so its actually slightly over 1 goal in 2.
StillRickyVilla
09/11/2012 14:18:00
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I swear i have read these comments and stats a million times on various articles here lol
JattYid
09/11/2012 14:19:00
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Anyhoo. Excellent hatrick. I am not an ungrateful b'stard!
TonyRich
09/11/2012 14:20:00
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SRV - I think Tony Rich is trying to say, scoring 3 against Maribor isn't like 3 against Inter Milan. Different competition, different level. EPL is the fairest way to judge a player as the opposite is the same for all players in it.
yiddyboy
09/11/2012 14:31:00
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Viyyash-Ramosh The other thing about having Ade in the free role is that it keeps Bale out wide for a lot more of the game so we have a fast counter attacking pace again. I don't get the moaners and whingers on here. We won and we won looking pretty good apart from a couple of mishaps. The attitude was there and that is what was most important about last night. If we go out with a good fighting attitude and throw the kitchen sink at citeh on Sunday and can keep it tight at the back we stand a really great chance of beating them. Two up front, pretty obvious who they are IMHO LOL with Sandro (if fit) behind them Bale and Lennon out wide. I'm still not sure about the 'keeper though, I would probably have lloris as he would, I feel, be more able to deal with the fast runs bursting through our defence if they manage to beat the offside, but then the back four are used to BF and to have a 'keeper they are not that used to playing with in such a high pressure game might not work out that well. I can see AVB's predicament in this department, thing is Lloris is a better sweeper 'keeper. Problem is if lloris is dropped his confidence may start to drop as well. Ho Hum, best to leave the team selection to the person who knows best then, a certain AVB.
chrishove123
09/11/2012 14:44:00
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Shannon A lot of the balls Bale was putting in were not accurate enough, hence no one could get on the end of them, or he had no one to aim for so HAD to cross and hope someone would get there or lose the ball.
chrishove123
09/11/2012 14:47:00
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I think Defoe is our top scorer having passed Teddy Sherringham, for domestic games and only second behind, I think Martin Chivers, including Europe. For the JD haters this is really really (crap isn't it. He should be the WORLDS top scorer especially with the lack of minutes played last season. I just wish we had a striker who was that (rap when I was playing. A hat trick is a hat trick and you can't take that away from him, plus how many goals would we have scored last night if he hadn't of played, just think on that one JD haters. Probably NONE and then you would have been slating AVB for not playing two up front. There is no pleasing some people is there?
chrishove123
09/11/2012 14:59:00
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Why don't we judge Defoe at the END of the season. Same goes for AVB. END of the season so that we can see where we are going.
chrishove123
09/11/2012 15:03:00
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Chrishove, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm no Defoe hater, even though he's short, misses opportunities and has a childlike selfishness about wanting to be the one who puts the ball into the net. Dempsey is like that too, and I wonder if we can accommodate two selfish gits in the same side. Neither will pass to a teammate in a better position, they'll always shoot, even if its highly speculative. And it wouldn't be so bad if it came off more often.
Shannon
09/11/2012 15:11:00
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And one last though for today: Just because we lose doesn't mean we played badly, and just because we won doesn't mean we were great, though we have a right to be happy.
Shannon
09/11/2012 15:15:00
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dannylane Yeah agreed i loved the way he was marshalling the "troops" for the corners etc. and Shannon Defoe is a STRIKER not simply a forward like Dempsey. As a striker it is instinct to shoot on sight and be selfish, as stated earlier by someone, how on earth would lineker or even greaves be treated by most on here???
chrishove123
09/11/2012 15:29:00
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The issue with Defoe is against the best he goes missing .
Defoe has a certain level ,or standard where he is brilliant .But there is a limit to what he can do .
Defoe is not a great striker ,never has & never will be .Well done for the hat-trick last night .But the best can do it against the best ,anytime ,any place, anywhere .
I used to be a fan of Defoe but you can really see why manager after manager ends up benching him .He`s scored more goals coming off the bench than any other EPL player ,there`s reasons for that .
big cockeral
09/11/2012 15:33:00
0
the point about last night was that it clicked. The combination worked, which is something we haven't really seen at the lane so far this season (though repeatedly at away games). Doesn't matter who the opposition is (for the record I think that Maribor are a lot better than a lot you lot give them credit for), as long as you ping quick passes to eachother, look in good shape and boss the game then it is a very positive, and this was down imo to 1. adebayor being back and replacing Sigs/Dempsey in linking the play up as the AM/deep lying forward, he is so good at that 2. Bale and Lennon finding the space and staying wide 3. tom carrolls movement, passing and fresh energy, I cannot rate that performance by the boy highly enough, he constantly moved to find space in a Xavi-like way, assisted a goal with a great first time pass and made some awesome passes to Bale and Lennon. Will be interesting to see how he does in England with less space and time but an immense prospect nonetheless!
wiltshirespur
09/11/2012 15:41:00
0
Kyle Naughton put the French goalkeeper under pressure with a shoddy backpass and Lloris tried and failed to dribble past Beric, who relieved him of the ball and rolled it into the empty net. Lloris looked shaky for the remainder of the game, giving a clue as to why Villas-Boas prefers to start Brad Friedel in the Premier League, although the manager insisted the goalkeeper bore no blame for Maribor's goal. "Sometimes things happen like that," he shrugged. "It's more to do with what we want to do with the ball, we don't just want to whack it, we want to play it from the back. So we assume that risk. It could happen to any goalkeeper during any game. It will not affect my decision-making."
chrishove123
09/11/2012 15:51:00
0
Look, this is just like after the Wigan game in November 2009. Everyone going on about how great Defoe was and that it didn't matter that he really had no chemistry with Keane, that Crouch was Crouch and that Pav was in Harry's I can't see you books. We need a striker who can maximize the opportunities that are there every game. We didn't lose to Wigan because we had no chances. We didn't lose to Chelsea because we had no chances. WBA, Newcastle etc. In other games where it should have been done and dusted by the half, we were still in 0-0 draws. Not for lack of opportunities. I am happy for Defoe. All I am saying is if he is our up top lone striker, we will want for goals. I am also saying that we will not be going in to City and Arsenal and getting 5 chances (header, scuffed shot, two crosses he did not get on the end of, a feed from Ade he miscontrolled and then the goal - that's 5 plus 1) as easily as we did against Maribor. Maribor and Panathanaikos should have been away wins. Loads of chances. Ade created tons yesterday. That was the missing link. We still need someone strong and clinical if we are to progress. But then, that's been the story for 5 years. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 16:11:00
0
I couldnt go last night but watched recording at midnight(yeah, crazy!). The fans were brilliant last night. Sang non-stop. No stupid booing after Haribo's equaliser. And a good performance. Coys!
Gazzaron
09/11/2012 16:13:00
0
Frank, there are always guys that can be had for a reasonable fee. Rossi has become reasonable because of injury, Llorente because he's out of contract etc. But we aren't going to get these guys. 5 windows ago I suggested Castaignos, Kroos and Arnautovic. Guess what? All three could be had still and all three have talent and, while young, compete and have experience. If you watch enough football, you can find the guys. Leandro would be ideal, but I don't see that we will beat out Barca, RM, Inter, AC and Chelsea and ManU unless to Spurs is where he wants to come. For me, it would be Castaignos. Affordable, strong, knows where the back of the net is and has so much upside potential. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 16:19:00
0
chrishove123 - Lloris didn't look shaky after the goal at all. He kept playing his game of retaining possession. My idea of shaky would be row Z every time he received the ball. The only time he missed something was when their forward won a header before he could punch it. If that was Friedel he'd have still been on his line anyway. Sometimes I wonder whether I'm watching the same game as some of the posters on here!!!
yiddyboy
09/11/2012 16:20:00
0
peterballb ONLY 5 years? LOL
chrishove123
09/11/2012 16:20:00
0
yiddyboy i thought the same .If Friedel plays against Manchester City then it may be wise to watch it from behind the sofa .
big cockeral
09/11/2012 16:25:00
0
chrishove123, why do we need tio give Defoe to the end of the season? He has had a couple of seasons in this league already. Best total, 18 goals with 8 scored in 2 appearances. This is Defoe. It always has been. Scores in bunches, then nothing for a long time. If he's accumulating tons of assists and helping others to score, fine, but as you correctly mention, he shoots on sight even if others are better positioned to score. Yes, three assists this season. 2 scuffed shots and an assist. It's just same old, same old. Not good enough. 15 appearances. He has scored in 5. 47 shots, 14 on goal. This has all happened before. I would rather see Dempsey with Adebayor because I believe they can both work off of each other. I do not see Defoe making Adebayor in to a better scorer. It will all go one way, which is fine if Defoe is making up for Ade's goals. That has never been the case with any partner Defoe has had. Crouch benefitted him, but his goals dried up. Keane, same thing. It has all happened before. I wish him well and hope he bangs in 30. It's what we need. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 16:48:00
0
It was also mentioned yesterday that Naughton passed the ball back to Lloris' off foot which made him have to dribble to change to his shooting foot. Anyway. He wasn't shaky and his quick transition was in large part responsible for the advantage and subsequent goal, so you take the good with the bad. Any keeper needs to play every week to be sharp. The more they play, the better they look. Lloris is in most people's top 5 keepers in the world. I fail to understand why this is so difficult to fathom. In the MLS playoffs yesterday I watched 2 of the many young American keepers who are way ahead of Friedel as far as talent and ability go. They all make mistakes. They all also make saves that Brad would not get a hand to. We need a keeper to steal us games or we need our players to start scoring 3 goals a game. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 16:54:00
0
Defoe's stats have consistently been 1 goal for every 90 minutes played. Last season he was better than that because Harry got it right. Impact sub. Running at tired defences with a second striker out there was the best scenario for Defoe. Other than that, .6 goals per 90 minutes in League and Cups. Pav had the same stats for his time at Spurs. This year, 5 goals in 12 appearances with 5 from the bench. Guess what? .6 goals per 90 minutes. It's just what the two are. ok. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 16:59:00
0
Sorry, not 1 goal per 90 minutes, rather .6 goals per 90 minutes. Way ahead of myslef.

Main thing was that we won a must-win game at home and dominated. This side has always been more comfortable with a 4-4-2 setup and I believe such a formation would really allow Dembele to dictate matches from the middle with the cover from the Beast that is Sandro. Carroll looked very good yesterday too, I thought. Some very incisive passes. He has very good vision and I still see him developing in to a Modric/Carrick cross. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 17:11:00
0
But Peter article is about Ade and Defoe's performance last night, no1 is sayin Defoe is the striker we need to take us to the next step. And the games you pointing out, you can't honestly say the reason why we lost these games is because of Defoe didnt score, Im not sure who this striker is that scores every chance. I agree we need better, but to criticize a striker after scoring a hat trick last night ( the only man to score) is way beyond harsh!!!
Ossie
09/11/2012 17:15:00
0
Any sense in that ?
big cockeral
09/11/2012 17:23:00
0
But Ossie, there you have it. The only man to score. This is what the entire system relies on, Defoe to score. We have seen, year after year, that he scores in bunches and more often than not, does not score. As to the article, other than the title, it was not about one game. You like Defoe. That's cool. For me, he does nothing to make anyone else better and thus needs to put 30 in the back of the net in the PL. COYS
peterballb
09/11/2012 17:32:00
0
peterballb because he is playing under a different manager with a different regime and a different philosophy which may well work in Defoe's favour, rather than be made to feel like an outcast. Also you can't judge ANYONE on less than half a season. You may as well say we judge AVB now and get rid of him because some people don't rate him.
chrishove123
09/11/2012 17:55:00
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