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Manchester City vs. Tottenham Hotspur.

Being the only remaining unbeaten side in the Premiership after ten games is hardly cause for major concern at Man City, though if we believe the media, Eastlands isn't a happy place at the moment. A likelihood to again fall at the first hurdle of Europe's premier competition and getting more than their fair share of lucky breaks domestically, is an indication that City are not playing anywhere near the level they were last season, but the fact that they are still sitting so close to the top of the table makes them a force to be reckoned with.

What interests me is how they are handling the pressure of being Champions and also coping with the supposed big egos within the squad. On the face of things, they don't seem to be coping very well, as several key players from last season seems to be well below their outstanding form of last season and we recently heard a few comments about them being a team of individuals as opposed to being a united team. That might be harsh, but when I have seem them, they certainly don't look as solid in defence or as devastating in attack, though the record states that they have had the most shots on target and had the least against them, so theory might be riding their luck at times, but equally is their season one of winning when not playing well actually a good sign and woe betide the team they face when they actually click..

Spurs on the other hand, have their own problems and question marks, but I do wonder if it is games like this where we will actually see them play at their best? Is there also an argument that the team are playing with greater freedom away from WHL as well? A first win in years at Old Trafford is not a true indication of a great season or a team that is better away from home, but looking at the table and also the games themselves, it seems clear that Spurs have not only earned more away points than home ones, but have scored more and conceded less, whilst also seeming much more comfortable in their way of playing. Maybe we can blame a negative home crowd for heaping more pressure of the team or perhaps it is the anti Semitic chants that upset the players and put them off their game …

As for team news, Spurs will be hoping that Sandro is fit to start, but after Thursdays promising performance, could we see Tom Carroll partner our Beast from Brazil and be a better pairing than with Huddlestone, who though has played well, is more pedestrian that our Mini Modric. Carroll over Hudd seems unlikely, especially after Tom received such positive praise from AVB, but would any of us be too upset to see Carroll get his first Prem start, even if it is such a big game?

What is the most interesting selection dilemma, is whether we retain Thursdays 4-4-2 or go back to the more used 4-2-3-1? Though I have a feeling it will be one of Defoe or Adebayor and not both, I do feel that we should go with both, and I actually felt that though they didn't seem to obviously spark off of each other in nice little one-twos and flick ons, there seemed to be a clever switching of roles, with each taking turns to drop deep, which must be a nightmare for a defence to mark, especially as they are such different players with different strengths.

City are sure to start as big favourites and will also have the big advantage of having two extra days rest from their European adventures, but it will have been Tottenham that had the better feeling following those games and perhaps AVB looking to take the game to City is exactly what we need and they will fear and I wonder if a fit again Maicon will feel he is better waiting another week before making his home City debut. Leave Bale to Pablo Zabaleta to deal with.

I can see AVB retaining a more cautious approach and going with a side of Friedel, Walker, Gallas, Caulker, Vertonghen, Sandro, Huddlestone, Lennon, Bale, Dempsey and probably Defoe over Adebayor and though there is a real common sense thinking in playing safe as opposed to being more gung-ho, I would love to see us look to take the game to City and see what they have to offer. If we lose, at least we lose giving it a go, but wasn't going all out attack and hang the consequences one of the reasons why so many wanted Harry out in the first place ...




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Saturday November 10 2012

Time: 5:04PM

Your Comments

I'm all for 4-4-2 at home but not away to City. I agree with the one up top formation but if we need to score later in the game then Defoe needs to come in as well as Ade not instead of him.
MrSpurs
..... And I'm a fan of Friedel but its now time to play Lloris on a regular basis starting with this game.
MrSpurs
Opta tweets: "Everton have attempted 200 shots this season (including those blocked), more than any other team in any of Europe's big five leagues." sorry for the offtopic. moyes rules. if avb fails, get him in.
logos8
I am 99% sure Friedel will start. No way AVB is going to start Lloris now.
logos8
@logos8, are Everton a great example of sticking with a manager and allowing him to build a solid foundation? I know you can only do that under certain considerations such as steady progression etc, but it is clear that Everton have stuck with a manager when times have been tough and now seem to be reaping the rewards for that loyalty
oxfordspur
Moyes works at Everton, give him a £50 million transfer budget and the expectation of at least 4th and he will struggle too.
MrSpurs
Not so sure about Moyes, but rather get Fellani, he scored a goal and made the second with a cheeky backheel. A central midfield with Sandro, Dembele and him will be awesome in my opinion.
what_sux
i'd still like to see ade (in place for dempsey) and defoe tomorrow. I don't think it's 4-4-2....more 4-4-1-1. COYS
mountainyid
Sorry to say it but it is Friedel to play for me. Lloris just doesn't cut it IMHO. too many schoolboy errors.
chrishove123
This would be the perfect game for Lloris; if we conceed and lose then nobody will be surprised given the quality that City have but Lloris is capable of pulling off a memorable performance in goal that get us a result (remember his the France No.1 so he can't be that bad).
MrSpurs
Ox - Everton are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The CANNOT sack Moyes - even after the poor seasons. The replacement would get Everton relegated with such a restricted budget. Moyes is perfect for Everton, because he is patient himself, and only a more successful club can nick him. Obviously AVB should be given time, but we still need him to show us an inkling that we are going on the right direction.
TonyRich
MrSpurs - Not the perfect game for Lloris. Better not throw him into the fire. He is still getting used to English football. Yes he should be good enough, but he should either play EVERY week to get accustomed (my preference), OR he should be given intermittent "easier" games to gradually get accustomed. Friedel is fine anyway. Not the problem. Midfield and up front are the problems.
TonyRich
Big c - One holding midfielder AND 2 strikers in a 4-4-2...away to Citeh...?
TonyRich
Just go for them. There defence has not been good this year. We nearly done them there last year and we can do them there this year. We're better away from home so far too which is very strange. We already got 3 points from Manchester this year so who knows eh! Play Adebayor instead of Dempsey... He'll be up for this match! Come on Avb and Coys!
TopSpur13
Ade Bale - Dempsey - Lennon Hudd - Sandro Naughton - Caulker - Vert - Walker Friedel Dempsey has not been great, but he sometimes turns up in big games. He seems more likely to score than Siggy. Plus I feel that he will be better in set pieces - which Citeh have been vulnerable from.
TonyRich
Not sure what happened there. Friedel - Naughton, Vert, Caulker, Walker - Sandro, Hudd - Bale, Dempsey, Lennon - Ade. Dempsey has not been great, but he sometimes turns up in big games. He seems more likely to score than Siggy. Plus I feel that he will be better in set pieces - which Citeh have been vulnerable from.
TonyRich
TonyRich - give him an 'easy' game and its a no win situation at least against City nobody is expecting a clean sheet (pessimistic I know but we are Spurs fans :) ) agree that the midfield is the issue. If we play like we did against Wigan we will be humiliated.
MrSpurs
I'd like to see Lloris in goal tomorrow. He comes and collects the ball a lot which helps the defence out a great deal and stifles very attacking teams like City. Give Ade a game, he'd love a goal against City and most strikers don't score many in consecutive games. Sorry Defoe! 4-4-2 is dead, no one aiming for top 4 plays like that with any regularity. it's the start of a horrible run of games for us though so it may be time for some traditional spurs, devil may care, chips to the wind style football. COYS!
edmontonspurs
Like your line up TonyRich but I'd still like to see Lloris. To be fair though it wouldn't be nice to pointlessly upset Brad and when all is said and done they are both obviously very good goalkeepers and even if we concede three tomorrow it will probably not be the goalies fault.
edmontonspurs
The Traditional 4 4 2 is dead. Long Ball, Big man, Small man. But, the Man Utd 4 4 2 if you will with RVP and Rooney is very much alive. Two 9 and a halfs as they called themselves. However, I am fully aware Rooney and RVP is a hell of a lot better than Adebayor and Defoe. But let Adebayor play the Dempsey role linking the play and Keep Defoe on the pitch to try poach a goal. With Adebayor on the pitch there is an outlet too when need be with his height, strength and hold up play.
TopSpur13
That's more like a 4 4 1 1 ore 4 2 3 1 with one of the midfielders who is actually a striker (ie rooney) who is capable of working all over the pitch doing any role he is asked to. Closest we have is Adebayor. if he's alone up front with a 3 of Bale, Dempsey and Lennon behind him around the penalty area he'll stop and look for options like Bale who'll either score or give it back to him in a better position, lennon who'll get to the by line and ping it across the 6 yard box for him and bring Clint in too. Defoe just hits it wide/over without looking at the goal or for another player.
edmontonspurs
Just go all out for the win and chuck the kitchen sink at them just make sure we score more than them.
chrishove123
Just go all out for the win and chuck the kitchen sink at them just make sure we score more than them.
chrishove123
no Defoe-Ade = no points...... be a shame to waste the confidence built from the last match by dropping either Ade or Defoe. Amazed so few remember our best games last year: Liverpool and Newcastle at WHL, both Ade and Defoe started.
Viyyash-Ramosh
The amount Ade drops off and links up play matches the fluidity AVB cherishes so I think a 4-4-2 cum 4-4-1-1 is possible. Think it'd be best for us to have Vertonghen in the middle, but who knows if that'll happen. A Sandro/Carroll partnership seems like a great prospect, and would allow us not to shell out millions on a similar player, especially with players like Luongo and Bentaleb coming through the ranks.
ceejspur
forget Carol, he is nowhere near ready for the Prem.... THudd and Sandro for 2moro should be fine, with the powerful Livermore as backup.... I can just see Carol now going into a 50/50 with Yaya... they'll need to scrape him off the pitch
Viyyash-Ramosh
Viyyash-Ramosh, they said the same about Modric and Ardilles.....
ItalianYiddo
In the absence of Dembele I would play Carroll and Sandro in midfield. Dempsey up front with Ade behind him, sorry Jermaine I don't think is your sort of game to start. COYS
ItalianYiddo
i am all up for the 4-3-3 and sometimes the 4-4-2..

lets have it best of both worlds and play this team...



..............................DEFOE.................................

....BALE..................ADEBAYOR..............LENNON...

.........HUDD/CARROLL............SANDRO................

..NAUGHTS........VERTS........CAULKER......WALKER..

..............................LLORIS...............................

is ADEBAYOR not better than DEMPSEY.... wouldnt you rather see ADE having a dig at TOURE, he is a big lump to. I think we could win the game by letting ADE battle it out in the middle and pushing on by laying it off to the speedy wingers in BALE and LENNON...

id rather have ADE playing that postion than DEMPSEY or SIGGY.... strength in the middle and speed on the wings... thats how we win....
Yidmarks
if SANDRO is still not match fit..id play VERTS in his place and bring in GALLAS to play his position...
Yidmarks
i think Sandro is fit tho,,, he trained today,,
Yidmarks
one of my favourite players is young tommy carroll and has been since he played against Hearts at home last year. hes a proper footballer. isnt big, strong, not even that physically quick, but hes a footballer. quick in the mind, agile on the ball, has a footie brain, an has got fantastic techmique. however, playing a young player that perhaps isnt ready mentally in such a big and tough game as this can ruin a footballer which id hate to see happen to him. so hudd and sandro will suffice tomorrow, especially when man c have such huge presence in their team. my team would be lloris, walker, caulks, gallas, verts, sandro, hudd, bale, lennon, ade, defoe. i thought ade an defoe switched roles really well last game, and just becuase you play with them two doesnt mean you are necessarily playing 4-4-2. ive always thought defoe could be a good number ten and link man and id like to see it tomorrow for the majority of the game, but of course at times switching roles with ade. i think city are there for the taking, and this type of game may suit spurs than a home game against the likes of wigan. city have to lose in the prem sometime, why not tomorrow?? COYS!!!
BrooksySpurs
What ever team we put out makes no odds, it will be a WIN for Man City, but then i love being wrong and I'm trying to get us a result.
spu 4 life
Berbatov double for fulham gets a 3-3 oh, his a good goalscorer that guy, can't understand why we never signed him? When's Harry taking over QPR, can't be long shirley knott?
spu 4 life
BrooksySpurs Bring Caroll on for the last half hour regardless of where we are so he can get that big match experience.
chrishove123
This is the first in a run of games that will decide our true league position, the "easy" fixtures against the bottom 6 that we made such hard work of, are over, now the hard work begins, we may well get a culture shock soon. On the other hand of course we may beat City, Arsenal, Fulham, W.Ham, Liverpool and Everton, I hope we do, but realistically if we get 9 points from that 18 we will have done extremely well. I will be very interested to see what formation and selections AVB uses in the home games. Incidently given his displays so far, there is less reason to pick Lloris, than there is to drop Friedel.
Frank
VR- you lost me at "powerful Livermore". Would go with loris against city's attack, and vert's at the centre of defence with caulker as tracking aguero would be too much for the slowing Gallas. That said, I think a result is not out of the question, we have a great record vs manc clubs away this season!
van der haart lane
See Hernandez scored a hatrick coming off the bench for Utd, they come frm 2-0 down away from home to win 3-2, he cost £7M, why can't we find these players.
Frank
Why would Fellaini want to leave Everton to come here, and why would they sell him, he will stay with them or move up, not sideways.
Frank
QPR still can't win, good, hope Hughes gets the bums rush. I can't stand the fella, and he is a useless prat anyway.
Frank
I don't believe it Manure have sneaked it yet againfter being two down. I dislike them them more than any other team but I wish Spurs had their fight,determination and never say die attitude.However,they have already won the Premiership which is SO BORING.Oh, by the way, someone please tell Lennon to SHOOT....Hoillet's goal today was a cracker and shows what a right winger CAN do.
wentworth
wouldnt say bring him on if we are winning by a goal or even two. would consider bringing him on if it was a draw, almost def if we were losing. i just think when ur that young, unless ur a wilshere or a rooney who are/ were clearly, mentally, years ahead of their time then a mistake that costs the team may not affect them. however, nothing about carroll has made me think he is mentally old enough as he hasnt yet made a breakthrough in the prem, despite his undoubted fantastic ability. i do feel however, he will play a bigger role in prem games this season in the future. i would even consider playing him against a very weak an unimposing arsenal side in a weeks time. feel he could flurish in a game like that an he would suite that type of game better than hudd who is just too slow an immobile unfortuantely.
BrooksySpurs
nah frank we are a much better and bigger club than Everton so a move to us would definately be a ste up for him. however, for how much they would sell him for, we can get a much much better player.
BrooksySpurs
Brooksy..there are no really very weak and unimposing teams in the premiership, and to describe the team that finished above us 6 months ago strikes me as very arrogant. I hope, as most on here, that your words don't come back to haunt you.
jacobslad
Arsenal 3 Fulham 3, Berbatov 2 goals and one assist. We should have grabbed him, he's just what we need, and at at 4 million quid which Fulham paid.
Hot_Spur
Viyyash - Newcastle at home was Ade + Saha wasn't it? Besides, both of those games were are home, and we scored early. If we do not score first, the dynamic changes. The objective is to find a formation that works well when we are chasing game, winning game or drawing.
TonyRich
But the way Adebayor fit in much like VDV used to against Maribor, more like a 4-5-1, I think will be useful from now on and definitely against Man City. Ade HAS to play. How many times have we seen strikers find the net against their old club. And Maribor proved that when Defoe has service, he can finish, that's what Ade provides. Same line-up as at Maribor, except Caulker for Dawson. Naughton deserves to earn a place, as does Carroll.
tengboon
Agreed Hot_Spur we missed a bargain.Best striker we've had since Linecar.How we could do with a great frontman with sublime control and super penalties.Good passer,holds the ball up d two good feet.We ony have two strikers (just) and are desperate for a top No. 9.
wentworth
Hot_Spur - We sign Berba for 11m, then value Berba at 20m, Man U offer 15m for him. We call it tapping up and an insult. Berba signs for man U for 30m+.... Then you expect Man U to sell him back to us for 4m? Would never had happened. Brooksy - Fellaini has no need to stay in England even. If Man U comes in for him, he'd go. Anyone else in EPL he would blank.
TonyRich
By the way Fulham get Berbatov.......we get Dempsey...hmmmm.
wentworth
tengboon - Carroll needs a few more sub apps first. Maribor at home is a million miles away from Man City away.
TonyRich
TonyRich - Your wrong, 4 million was the price ManU put on him and that's what Fulham paid. The price wouldn't be different just because it's spurs bidding.
Hot_Spur
They would not have sold him to Spurs full stop. They can reject our bid....and would have done. Or they would have forced us up until we back off. Some things are just not to be.
TonyRich
Carroll is not ready for PL, especially big games. He needs to go on loan for a season in the Championship.
Hot_Spur
TonyRich - They would have sold him to spurs, Fergie actually said that he expected him to go to spurs.
Hot_Spur
Agreed again Hot_Spur. Carroll is a neat player but NO Modric.He is no where near ready for the tough games. We missed out on Berbs big time.Let's see what happens in Jan....maybe Saha,Rasiak or even Pav...gawd help us.
wentworth
oxfordspur if moyes would have had harry's squad I think he would have done better in his first year with them... everton stuck with him because they are lucky to have him. he has overachieved many seasons there with the squad he had.
logos8
Well maybe you are right on that. However, Berba signed for JOL ahead of Spurs. I could not see it happening. It is the same with Junior Hoillett signing for his ex-boss Mark Hughes ahead of anyone else. Looks like a bad decision right now....
TonyRich
Hot_Spur and TonyRich do you honestly think he would have come back to White Hart Lane even if we had put in a bid for him. I think not, I seem to remember most people calling him Berbatoss a miserable git etc and coming down on him like a ton of bricks and now people want him back. How many of those who want him back were those who slated him in the first place I wonder. Talk about fickle eh.
chrishove123
Away to Man City would be a horrible game for Carroll to start in imo, let him gain some experience against some of the weaker premiership opposition 1st before we put him up on a pedestal. He played "ok - good" in his last couple of matches, but he did give the ball away a fair bit as well and Man City arent as toothless in attack as Norwich res and Maribor.
Guyver
chrishove123, all fans are fickle (myself included) when it comes to players. Just pick any player you don't like (just for example John Terry), and say he signs for us tomorrow. You'll find everyone will be supporting him when he puts our shirt on. We all support the team no matter who plays for us.
In-spurs-ational
in- spurs ational speak for yourself. i would never support that lowlife terry, just as much as i detest bale diving.
topspur53
City will be totally different team if Silva starts. If he starts I will as much as give the game to them. We are not a team like West Ham who can defend for 90min and limit City not scoring. I guess we are more like Ajax, get the goals and slow them. So, having 2 holding midfielders with one striker could work, but without Dembele its going to be tough.
I would play Lloris, Walker, Caulker, Dawson, Vertonghen, Sandro, Hudd, Bale, Lennon, Ade, Defoe.
To me its very simple - Ade is better than Dempsey, better passer, better holder of the ball, better in the air, better in skill, better in defense and a overall better package to be behind Defoe. If Sandro & Hudd can hold the midfield, Ade has the ability to move the ball around him with Bale & Lennon, freeing Defoe to strike.
I will take a draw now. I dont think we have enough in tank to outclass city-like United game, we need lot of skill, determination & luck.
sydqcb5
topspur53, I don't like Bale diving either, but that's not the same as not supporting him. Best to agree to disagree on Terry, after all if we all thought the same this site would get boring really quickly
In-spurs-ational
How can we consider leaving our most potent weapon on the bench. Defoe is likely to give Kompany (shakier this year than a jelly), and the new unproven Serbian a good test running the line. Should be similar to Thursday with 4-4-1-1. It has been said that Ade and Defoe swapped to the deeper role on Thursday so why not against Citeh. I agree we should not play 2 up top, but a disciplined team effort can get a good result and performance. If we are the underdogs then lets have a go, as what do we have to lose. Lets not be saying what if, after the game. Win Lose or Draw COYS.
CoysRus
sydqcb5, I don't think you were very clear in your last post. Is it Ade or Dempsey for you :) Like you, I would take a draw. The only problem is Everton and West Brom keep winning and therefore the gap to fourth keeps getting bigger.
In-spurs-ational
We really need 2 get something out of this Citeh game to keep the momentum going before we face le scums.I really want Us to kick their ass.besides both Everton and Westbrom won yesterday!
SilwalYid
Guys any news on Dembele?I heard he might miss the Lazio game too!!
SilwalYid
CoysRus, I agree. By playing Ade and Defoe doesn't automatically mean we are playing 442. I would love to see them both start but AVB doesn't seem to me to be the kind of person to take that kind of attacking risk. Of course he also seems to me to be the kind of person to do the unexpected just so you can't say he's predictable
In-spurs-ational
Seeing as we are playing them tomorrow, I thought I'd post this little snippet of news http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9669242/Manchester-City-manager-Roberto-Mancini-makes-move-for-Atletico-Madrids-Colombian-striker-Radomel-Falcao.html
chrishove123
thfc1882whl, regarding Lloris, I'd say the pressure would be off against City at their place as no one (pundit or neutral wise) is expecting anything other than a City win
In-spurs-ational
I'm expecting at least a draw tomorrow, maybe we can even nick a win. How's that for blind faith and optimism.
chrishove123
Ahhh YES AVB that is real fighting talk. COME ON YOU SPURS. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/9669073/Tottenham-Hotspur-manager-Andre-Villas-Boas-considers-giving-Emmanuel-Adebayor-starting-place-against-City.html
chrishove123
chrishove123, you're either very optimistic, or a Man City supporter on the wrong site :)
In-spurs-ational
Please AVB play Ade and Defoe. You've got no pressure on you for this one. Be bold, be brave, but most of all, be lucky!
In-spurs-ational
Interesting interview with Walker highlighting the work down analysing the opposition http://www.football411.com/story/0,22162,14287_8239756,00.html?
In-spurs-ational
In-spurs-ational I know I seem to be being unrealistic, but I just have a feeling that we may get something out of this because I won't even be able to watch or listen to the game as I'm going on a tour round the Millenium Stadium with the missus tomorrow afternoon. 0 Either that or I'm just a deluded old fart. LOL
chrishove123
In-spurs-ational Nice posting. So much for the players not buying into AVB and his style. HA HA HA
chrishove123
thfc1882whl Is that fancy or hope? LOL
chrishove123
He gets his hair cut that is.
chrishove123
thfc1882whl, that's okay about the name - I've never been rational in my life
In-spurs-ational
As for Thudd, all Spurs fans as well as thousands of hair dressers hope he scores tomorrow - can you imagine how much it would cost to cut that much hair (especially if you know your client is a footballer)
In-spurs-ational
thfc1882whl, agree. Carroll has earned a place on the bench. He just better make sure he is not too close to AVB when we score, the last thing we need right now is another injury caused by the manager pushing a player out of the way!
In-spurs-ational
The problems we would have had in sighing Berb would have been his wages and zero sell on fee and we all know that Levy likes a sell on fee just as much as Harry liked a bung (allegedly of course)
In-spurs-ational
thfc1882whl, ah yes. Mr Sick Note himself. Lovely player, suspect hair style, and probably the worst singer ever to appear on Top of the Pops (although I think Gazza appeared once)
In-spurs-ational
Okay all (so that's thfc1882whl and chrishove123 then). Off to bed to dream about three points!
In-spurs-ational
Go for it, play the same way as they played against Maribor. Might just as well lose 4-0 and go down fighting as to lose 1-0 trying to defend.
Hot_Spur
And in any case, as they say "attack is the best form of defence"
Hot_Spur
In-spurs-ational- I doubt his wages would be a problem, if Fulham can afford him I imagine spurs could. Fulham are not exactly a rich club.
Hot_Spur
In-spurs-ational, let me ake it clear - Adebayor better than Dempsey - to me its obvious. I dont know which Tottenham we will see, United first half or Untied second half ?! As for as other top4 contenders I would rather keep City or Arsenal as bench mark than Everton or WBA.
sydqcb5
I have to laugh at the 'hindsight' posting here! Berbatov? Seriously? We get a manager in to build for the future, and just because DB is banging them in for Fulham, all of a sudden people are questioning why we weren't in for him! Lads, do you not recall that this was the guy who refused to play for us!! Good luck to the guy, he was almost on a plane to Italy before Jol (who, in my opinion, could/should still be our manager) made a bid for him. If players make it clear that they don't wanna play for Spurs, then good luck, see ya later. Berbatov and Luka? Same thing. Oh, and 2 things: 1 Whether it's Friedel or Lloris against City, lets just support the choice. I have respect for them both. 2 Next home game, take a leaf outta the 1882 movement, block J in the Shelf against Maribor. That, my friends, is what creating a great atmosphere at the Lane can do. Finally, with a lot of lads still out, don't expect too much tomorrow. A Draw would be a great result.
SpursEagle
I would like to see both Ade and Defoe but may be we shouldn't start with that formation because if it doesn't work then do we have plan B anyone to come of the bench to make the change - NO.

If we start with one of them and hold City or even go ahead then we still have the option to swap as the game draws to a close. If we go behind and it isn't working we still have option to bring on the other and revert to a 4 4 2.

I would love to see Carroll one of my favourite players with a huge future ahead of him at Spurs I hope. However, he may not be strong enough yet against City would like to see him more against lesser PL sides first, ease him in and not rush him as we don't want him making too many mistakes and then lose his confidence. However, I am not convinced of Hudd or Livermore and with Sandro a doubt AVB has a difficult situation and may have to opt for Carroll.

I guess if he does we don't have to worry too much if it is too much of a big game for Carroll as we are not really expected to win are we? So nothing to lose for him.

We need good performances from Bale and Lennon and our striker or we have no chance regardless of City's problems and unease as they are still a very good team and capable of destroying us.

I would be tempted to play Dawson and Caulker at the back with Vertonghen LB as Naughton may be a little nervous after his mistake on Thursday but I would be happy if he is given another chance as he is steady but a little fragile when pressed and put under pressure this is where we miss BAE he is technically able to play himself out of trouble when being pressed back and cocky enough to try anything lol. We need Walker to be on his game as well to do a solid defenders job.

I would be happy with a draw prefer a win and feel we could get one if the players turn up but insist on a good performance regardless of the outcome.
thfan
So lets see what tactical master plan AVB will employ today. His writing up page 98 of his report as we speak lol.
MrSpurs
Well this time around we can use Ade for this game, so let's use him and with Defoe, no so much as a 4-4-2, but in a ''free role'' Ade drops off, links up play, holds the ball up better, his all round game is light years ahead of Dempsey. Who's is goal, toss a coin, but it will most likely be Walker, Gallas, Caulker, Vertonghen, Lennon, Sandro, Hudd, Bale, Ade, Defoe, to go up against, not only a team i don't like that much, but more so that smug little shi7 Nasri, who i hate with a vengance. COYS.
spu 4 life
Berbatov would not have been allowed to play his free style football, with his limited work rate, his ability to drift in and out of the game, mercurial style that is his hallmark in our "rigid team shape" that everyboy including the players say AVB insists on. There probably isn't a computor programme suitable for Berbatov. The man is a pillock, but a great footballer and entertainer, but not one for regimented rigid systems. Martin Jol respects and admires his talent but I doubt AVB would share the same view.
Frank
TonyRich... youre right that it was Saha-Ade but my point is that Ade dropping off and a goalscorer just ahead works hugely for Spurs. and isnt it even more imperative to have 2 strikers in the box when in possession if we concede first cos the other team will naturally defend more and play on the counter ??.... as for Carroll, I think he will develop into a good player but he aint physically ready yet for the hurly-burly of the Prem... as for the snipes at Livermore its silly, he is a good athlete with size and presence that we will need if Sandro is out. so many fickle oneshave forgotten Livermore's attributes after the Utd game when he was MOTM... we'll play on the backfoot today so its important to have 2 solid centre-mids screening the backline so Livermore for me is way ahead of Carroll (this season at least)..
Viyyash-Ramosh
Berbatov was class - I never had and still don't a problem with the bloke.
MrSpurs
The other factor re Berbatov is, woul he have wanted to return to Spurs, I doubt it.
Frank
If anyone is interested the society of black solicitors has a facebook page. If anyone wants to leave them a message or ten. I have already sent them numerous messages about their crusade against us asking why they don't act on REAL racism in football not perceived racism and why they don't act on rappers and bands such as****z with attitude and Wu Tang etc. If you do feel inclined to message them please be aware they are solicitors so don't put anything that can be construed as libel. http://www.facebook.com/messages/117791631567373
chrishove123
chrishove..... its not what you do, its why you do it that counts..... the NWA and others are doing it in an ironic way and a means to turn a negative into a positive....not unlike the 'turn the other cheek to offer for a slap' quote by the big J 2000 odd yrs ago... you are barking up the wrong tree
Viyyash-Ramosh
I watched MOTD yesterday to see how Arsenal were playing for our game next week. I was very impressed with Berbatov, I know people have said it would have been a backward step but the guy is different class. Also I think I read it here but I do remember a post that Manure, Old red nose or the chairman, rang Levy and asked Spurs as he was signed from them, they could have first refusal on his services and Levy said "no thanks" then hung up! If this is true I feel we may have lost out. With regard to today I feel a win would be nice but a draw will still be a good result for us.
Ox Yid
I will be interested to see whether, particularly at home, AVB learns the lesson from the Maribor game, the tempo, the attacking intent, the crowd's reaction to the way the team played, we scored goals and won, or will he revert to his natural overly defensive philosophy, which was amply demonstrated with the Adebayor for Defoe swap when losing 1-0 to Wigan, a hidious decision, when we should have had as many forward players as possible on, to try and equalise. You might as well get beat 2 or 3 nil as 1-0, but at least you give it a go. But this is foreign to his beliefs of rigid team shapes, and regimentation, which unfortunately are his hallmark. In swapping him for HR we have surely gone from one extreme to the other, Harry was totally undisciplined, this bloke is far too rigid.
Frank
Anti Semetic chants at the lane ??? is that a regular thing now ? do fill me in
gRAMMSTEIN
Viyyash-Ramosh Sorry but I don't get what you mean there, I am messaging them to tell them that they are wrong. I KNOW why we chant Yid and am fully aware of the history of our club. The SBL is a threat to our club's ways and as such they have to be told so. THEY are not doing it an ironic way and I also know that WTC Public Enemy Niggaz with Attitude etc are doing it ironically, THAT is why I mentioned them because what they have done parallels what we have done with the word Yid. I'm not an American who doesn't get irony. They need to be shown why we say it and how it equates with what has been done with the word *******.
chrishove123
Personally, my biggest concern today is the unreliability of gallas and walker this season. If I am honest, I would not play either today. The time has come. Clearly naughton is a right back, so give him a go. Vert can play left back and then caulker and for me, Dawson over gallas. We have nothing to lose and I think walker and gallas are liabilities. Gutted kaboul, dembele and Parker are out of this one.
Windlespur
I am a vocal critic of all things racist, so I would question the very existence of the "Society of Black Lawyers" and the "Black Police Officers Assoc.", these are overtly racist organisations by name. What would be the outcry be, if there was a "Society of White Lawyers" or a "White Police Officers Assoc." formed. Rightly there would be absolute uproar.
Frank
For today I share the concerns re Gallas, and his ability to cope with the pace of Aguero or indeed Tevez, if he gets on. The only problem is that to play Dawson instead, would be a Peter or Paul situation, he struggles for pace as well. I would personally leave Naughton at Left Back, and play Caulker and Vertonghen in the CB roles.
Frank
Frank I have already put that one to them LOL. There is also a Network of black Solicitors, but they say anyone in the law of any race creed or colour can join. But yeah by name they as far as I can see are racist.
chrishove123
Frank I think I would prefer Daws to Gallas due to Gallas having the hamstring problem a short while ago. My worry is that it may recur during this game so we will have to make a needless substitution or play with basically ten men.
chrishove123
chrishovel123, if they claim that anyone can join then, there is no point in their existence as we already have had "The Law Society", and "The Police Federation", in existence for a long time, so why the alternatives, if they are not racist in intent.
Frank
chrishove.... sorry, I misunderstood, not relating it to the yiddo chants... of course the chants and the NWA stuff equate and I can see where youre coming from now. as you said, my comments reinforced yours in fact..... about Berbatov, I have him in my Dreamteam entry but still I wouldnt think he'd be as good a fit for us as Ade. Berba was sold cos he lacks the pace to play well on the counter (thats why Fergie sold him). yesday he scored from a corner and a pen, not open-play, and I doubt he would add more to the team than Ade or even Dempsey (as Demps has a defined role behind the main striker).... Berbatov will excel at Fulham cos he's a big fish there, but he wouldnt add value to this current Spurs team
Viyyash-Ramosh
abot Daws for today's game, its the worst choice imaginable against 2 quick nippy strikers with great movement in Tevez and Aguero... I still remember how Dawson played at WHL against Aguero especially and have nightmares about it!... Dawson is a meat and 2 veg type of CB best kept for Stoke and West Ham types of team.
Viyyash-Ramosh
Frank I know, they really seem to have dropped a turd on themselves now. I just see what they are doing as a cheap publicity stunt to raise the profile of a non entity group by going for a controversial "crusade". I feel that with the backing of the Met and THFC we will win this and they will have had their fifteen minutes of fame just to fade back into obscurity.
chrishove123
Viyyash-Ramosh cool man cool :-)
chrishove123
Viyyash-Ramosh You'd go with Gallas then and risk him coming off or struggling for possibly a good part of the game as he did the other week.? I know Daws is a bit of a liability but so is Gallas. It's a bloody hard one this.
chrishove123
I was interested by this post I read yesterday and I would like some thoughts, A Tottenham Hotspur fan has labelled the club’s stewarding system a ‘joke’ after his seven-year-old daughter was reduced to tears in her first trip to White Hart Lane. Wayne Aylott said his daughter Rebecca was left distraught by home fans’ refusal to sit down in the south lower section of the ground during Saturday’s home match against Wigan. Mr Aylott claimed both he and Rebecca were unable to see much of the game, until stewards finally moved them to a seat at the front of the stand 15 minutes from the end of the game. After complaining to staff and sending an email to the club, Mr Aylott, from Potters Bar in Hertfordshire, called for stricter regulations for fans who persistently stand up during games. I am sorry but my take on this is this is Mr Aylott cannot be a regular supporter as no one would take a seven year old girl into the South Stand Lower, The North Stand Family Area is the only place for young Children. Do you not agree?
Ox Yid
Ox Yid Agreed, or he should have sat her on his shoulders so at least SHE could see.
chrishove123
against Titty, I'd play the backline of Walker, Caulker, Vert, Naughton.... Caulker is a talent and has pace (which is whats needed against Aguero, Tevez) and he acquitted himself pretty well at OT recently for his 1st Prem start in a Spurs shirt.... Caulker has played more Prem games than Dawson or Gallas the last year or so..
Viyyash-Ramosh
YId Army... Yid Army...
Yidmarks
Mr Aylott from Potters Bar, should write to THFC and send a copy to the ticket office, will it do any good, well you can but try. Years ago it was all standing in the ground in the lower sections and when my dad took me we sat in the park lane front row, but in those early days you did not require a ticket, just got to the ground early and was in the first dozen in the que, when we did stand, other spurs fans would always allow me and my dad down to the front. I hope this does not put Mr Aylott and his daughter Rebecca (7yrs old) off going in the future, mind you by the time she's 21 the new stadium may have been built?
spu 4 life
Friedel, Walker, Gallas, Caulker, Vertonghen, Sandro, Huddlestone, Lennon, Bale, Dempsey and Adebayor
sydqcb5
No Defoe
duckworth
I hope Lloris starts just so we can stop blaming Freidel for every single goal we concede. Seriously, some on here blame him for every goal. The new Jenas. At least its not as bad as blaming VDV.....jesus couldnt we just do with him today. What a player. Some on here got their wish though.
HuddersfieldYiddo
Sandro starts & Defoe bench
sydqcb5
Btw, City has not lost a game in league this season.
sydqcb5
Afternoon all, just watched the replay of the corresponding match from last year. Still think Defoe should of scored! Anyway, I'll take a point right now. For me the key is Sandro. If we can contain Yaya in the middle of the park, we can have success. Hudd will struggle as Silva is starting. The other key point will be Ade's discipline.................breaking news, Defoe dropped to the bench!
thenuge
On todays game..... FIRSTLY i hope Maicon starts, because the last time Bale faced him it can only be decribed as sexual assault. SECOND, i agree with big racist. Play Ade and Defoe together up top. Go for the jugular, we can devastate them on the break and they have only kept 1 clean sheet all season. Lets outscore them. Also i dont see what Dempsey gives us that Adebayor cant do 10 times better. COYS
HuddersfieldYiddo
Damn you syd :)
thenuge
Sorry it was Duckworth who should get the credit
thenuge
No it was Syd, I'll shut up now.
thenuge
Walker is going to be roasted toasted battered bruised probably humiliated and shut down his facebook by end of the game with Silva, Tevez & Aguero starting. I am backing him to play well but its really hard to see him picking up his form after a dreadful start to the season.
sydqcb5
Hoping Sandro is fit enough to last 90min. He would have to put out lots of fire today. COYS
sydqcb5
So, Defoe scores a hat-trick midweek and then gets dropped. Dempsey has done nothing to impress yet starts. Its obvious to everyone that Defoe and Ade should of started. I also cannot understand the decision to persist with Gallas and Friedel... AVB does see them in training everyday though. He appears to have opted for balance? The sooner we get our first-team back from injury the better.
Fanman
COME ON THE YIDS.
chrishove123
thfc1882whl, even f Silva gets injured City can bring in Dzeko who likes scoring against us and always scores in injury time. While I am an optimist, its really difficult for me to see a draw today let alone a win. If we put in a Wigan performance real humiliation is on cards. We need United first half performance for 90+injury time today to get a point or a win. Every player especially defense have to play their best game today.
sydqcb5
BALLOTELLI NOT EVEN ON THE BENCH. WALKER GALLAS AND VERTS AT THE BACK. FRIEDEL IN GOAL.
chrishove123
Surely Defoe has to start after a hatrick.....Dempsey right mate its about time you started to show you belong at a club like Spurs. You went on strike to get your move yet you've stunk. We need a performance here Clint
HuddersfieldYiddo
Our starting team today is: Friedel, Walker, Gallas, Caulker, Vertonghen, Sandro, Huddlestone, Lennon, Bale, Dempsey and Adebayor
what_sux
Adebayor come on!! Ya better be up for it now!
TopSpur13
And our subs: Lloris, Naughton, Dawson, Livermore, Carroll, Sigurdsson and Defoe
what_sux
The #MCFC team today is: Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Nastasic, Clichy, Yaya Toure, Barry, Silva, Tevez, Aguero and Kolarov
what_sux
And the #MCFC subs: Pantilimon, Kolo Toure, Sinclair, Garcia, Dzeko, Razak and Maicon
what_sux
thfc1882 - Yes but midweek wasn't Man City
Hot_Spur
I like it.... the obvious thing would've been to play Defoe no matter what as the main striker, but against 6'4'' Kompany and Nasty that would be silly... I actually like the idea of putting Ade there and the rest of the team plays like before using Demps as the 2nd striker from midfield... Verts at LB gives the option of attacking in the inside-left channel like at OT, something Naughton can't do well as he's right-footed.... no bad AVB...COYS !!
Viyyash-Ramosh
Jamie has just said he thinks Ade is playing because he is moaning because he is not playing in the team and AVB has given in to him!!
Ox Yid
Yeah a good set up today. i just hope we turn up and play the way we can, that way we can get a "shock" result and we WILL win.
chrishove123
Come on Clint, AVB has shown his faith in you, so, time to step up and show us what you can REALLY do.
chrishove123
I am confident Ade will score and mock City fans. COYS
SilwalYid
Big C - How is today about damage limitation? What team would you have picked mate?
woodyn17
Maybe AVB put Defoe on the bench due to his last premier league outing rather than the midweek game against lesser opposition
PERTH OZSPUR
I am confident Ade will score and mock City fans. COYS
SilwalYid
woodyn17 I think (hope) he means for Citeh. LOL
chrishove123
The only change i would have made was to play verts CM and Naughton LB
woodyn17
We'll either be put to the sword or pull off a surprise result
PERTH OZSPUR
Big C - Minus Defoe this is the quickest team we could play. 4 may be a bit extreme. I don't expect us to win but i expect to give them a good game!!
woodyn17
I hope everyone enjoy the game like how we enjoy the picture I posted ;-)
what_sux
Come on you Spurs
SilwalYid
anyone have a good sopcast link? no bloodzeed today?
Guernman
CAULKER YOU BEAUTY!@!!!!
woodyn17
Caulker has such an improvement that he can be the next legend for us!
what_sux
nice
logos8
How things had changed, we scored from a set piece finally.
what_sux
Dodged one there!
Durbanspur
LUCKY THERE
woodyn17
gallas defending like a girl in a handball team there... should have been a penalty for city. lucky
logos8
We've scored too soon!
MrSpurs
Nice unselfish play Adebayor for Huddlestone
what_sux
Much better with Ade in the team
woodyn17
the problem with having friedel in goal is that I cant see us finishing this game without conceding a penalty. they should have had at least one and as they keep pushing forward things will get congested. great play from ade so far and nicely got zabeletta yellowed. bale needs to run at him and get him sent off now
Guernman
If Yaya Toure goes injured and Zabaleta goes red that will be nice
what_sux
living on the edge here!!!!
woodyn17
Good referee so far
what_sux
COYS
obimikelisdbest
I won't be surprised if we see a red card in this one.
logos8
we need another goal or a city sending off before half time. they are frustrated right now. need to benefit from our luck before the break to go on and win IMO
Guernman
*****ty getting rattled - we must take advantage - a red card would be nic!
Durbanspur
Half way there gents, half way there!!
woodyn17
Embedded image permalink
what_sux
send off kolarov and zabaleta :) and yaya injured + tevez/aguero to be off target! would be a good day then well at least we're frustrating them and hanging on to a lead
spurring you on
we got a lot of decisions that half and really rode our luck. haven't really gotten bale or lennon into the game nor have we shown enough to see this through. while ade has been good and has shown enough to justify benching defoe, dempsey has not done enough. we really need to step it up because we won't be this lucky in the next half
Guernman
Caulker can be the next King with this rate of improvement
what_sux
nice pic what_sux. where did you get it so fast?
logos8
logos8 - Spurs official twitter account mate ;-)
what_sux
Guernman, agree with your assessment. I wouldn't be surprised if Defoe replaces Demps at some stage.....I wasn't sure Demps was in the team until he wo a free kick!!
Critical_Spur
the problem with bringing defoe on is it means ade will switch role and he is doing much better than defoe would at leading the line. would rather bring on siggy as we need to maintain a strong midfield. no room for defoe unless/until we are chasing this game
Guernman
what_sux. nice. thanks. didn't check it during the match :)
logos8
City is switching to a back 3 if I am not wrong.
what_sux
cheers logos8 ;-)
what_sux
One more goal on the break would clinch it!
Durbanspur
Agree Guernman, no Defoe sub today!
Durbanspur
Sloppy play
what_sux
*****!
Durbanspur
come on spurs. See what you're made of now!!!
woodyn17
At last Walker got an assist, alas, to aguero
PERTH OZSPUR
sloppy pass leads to their goal
Cape Town Spurs
Walker at fault again. He needs to work on his concentration!!!
woodyn17
it was inevitable for them to score against our defense but we can still get something out of the game. I would be happy with 1 point.
logos8
Huddlestone's fault for that goal. He's a phucking waste of space
mattspurs1982
We know what's coming next don't we.....
MrSpurs
yep... very poor from walker
Cape Town Spurs
well taken by aguero, but once again no way friedel can get down for that. lloris could, gomes could. the sort of shot perhaps you are not expected to save, but the sort of save that changes games. not on friedel's locker. does he really bring enough otherwise to justify his being prefered to a keeper who will make exceptional saves?
Guernman
It was coming. make a change Dempsey off Defoe on lets be bold.
thfan
SSSSAAAANNNNDDDDRRRROOOO, take that ba$tard
PERTH OZSPUR
Sit down Toure!!!!!
woodyn17
Dzeko!! 5-1 anyone!!!
woodyn17
Huddlestone's fault for that goal. He's a phucking waste of space
mattspurs1982
our passing is also too slow -- we are hovering on the ball, inviting their players on then we are 1 man against sometimes 4 -- passing needs to be slicker imo
Cape Town Spurs
Walker has become a liability and we need to press on them take the initiative.
thfan
I won't blame Walker 100% for the goal, everyone in the defense could have been better
what_sux
friedel is solid but very slow
Cape Town Spurs
Substitute Dempsey for Sandro's twin brother
PERTH OZSPUR
*********!!
woodyn17
We k ow whys going to happen so Why haven't we changed it?? Why is Huddlestone's still playing?? Why is Dempsey starting?? - AVB, AVB, AVB..
mattspurs1982
Adebatore splatter Zabaletta
PERTH OZSPUR
Huddlestone lack of pace is being exposed - they're waltzing past him - should be subbed!
Durbanspur
That 1d1ot Zabaleta is trying to get Adebayor sent off, should sent him off instead.
what_sux
We know its coming lads!!! THing is we have played ok. Not a disgrace and apart from 1 defensive feck up we were solid!!!
woodyn17
And why hasn't walker been dropped yet!!! How many more goals is he going to cost us??!!
mattspurs1982
Walker for Daws??? Must be an injury!!!
woodyn17
Keeper should be faster to take the ball away from Silva
what_sux
i say dempsey off for defoe and hudd off for carroll for the last 10 mins
Cape Town Spurs
I'm glad I've had enough beer to numb my emotions. I feel a sad coming on
PERTH OZSPUR
Why can't Huddlestone's just keep the phucking ball!!!! OMG it's so frustrating!!!
mattspurs1982
what sort of defending was that
Cape Town Spurs
walker injured. ade on a yellow. fair enough avb. siggy for dempsey next please
logos8
Too many times Friedel seems dozen!
Durbanspur
WRONG WRONG WRONG, unless ade's fitness is questionable, that's a bad substitution when/if we get out of our own half we need to keep the ball
PERTH OZSPUR
How is Dempsey still on?!? Had to be Ade and Defoe for the last 10
mattspurs1982
Frozen! ...autocorrect
Durbanspur
agree logos, lets get siggy on. will be surprised if we get anything though :( just nervous really
Guernman
Durbanspur - He seems to be uninterested in becoming a sweeper keeper
what_sux
OK, you're forgiven!
Durbanspur
Lennon is cabbage
PERTH OZSPUR
I am happy it's just 1-1 after 80 mins. could have been 3-1 or 4-1 to be honest. they had enough good chances and some decisions gone against them.
logos8
i think ade went off because there was a danger that the ref would have taken him off before AVB could
Guernman
Squeaky bum time!!!
woodyn17
How did Dempsey lasted so long?
what_sux
If only we had 11 players with Sandro's heart and will
PERTH OZSPUR
naughton for lennon. dempsey's lucky day... but we know what happens after a defensive sub right?
logos8
Oh FFS!!! Told you!!
woodyn17
the curse of AVB's defensive sub...
logos8
Dezko shoots at Friedel's height and he scores!!
what_sux
fu(king gutted... again
PERTH OZSPUR
AVB you got it wrong again!!
woodyn17
Friedels reactions are too slow, I knew it would be Dceko though
philbill
Divoe
PERTH OZSPUR
What else do you expect from someone who failed at a team that went on to win 2 big cups after they sacked him?
logos8
I'm not gutted actually for once, I knew that we are not going to win with the keeper hadn't clean sheet for this season and our attacking is not there yet, just disappointed with the goals let in, disappointing.
what_sux
To be honest, and I am, we're $hit
PERTH OZSPUR
philbill - You are not the only one there
what_sux
We are not getting the subs right and we are just not good enough simple as that.
thfan
This is going to make our North London derby a 6 pointer
what_sux
thfan yes we are not good enough but avb is not good enough either. let's hope he learns and improves. he is still young
logos8
I'm really starting to hate AVB
mattspurs1982
Huddlestone didn't deserve 90 mins!
Durbanspur
Dempsey you useless septic tank!!!
woodyn17
Just wondering whether Parker or Dembele might of put a little bit of pressure on Silva. Hudd is a waste of space. Freidal reaction anyone?...or being too harsh.
thenuge
I'm an AVB fan but his stubbornness is starting to annoy and frustrate me. How long will it take him to understand that we can't defend a lead against weak opposition let alone try it against the league champions. Either he is stupid or just stubborn. Either way it isn't working and it isn't good enough. I get the feeling the players are confused by what he wants from each of them. That isn't good and was the beginning of the slippery slope at Chelsea.
SpuriousLife
I'm an AVB fan but his stubbornness is starting to annoy and frustrate me. How long will it take him to understand that we can't defend a lead against weak opposition let alone try it against the league champions. Either he is stupid or just stubborn. Either way it isn't working and it isn't good enough. I get the feeling the players are confused by what he wants from each of them. That isn't good and was the beginning of the slippery slope at Chelsea.
SpuriousLife
Our 2 American players don't seem to have any pace in their lockers it seems ;-(
what_sux
AVB has to take the blame for this one. The high line the subs were woeful.
TopSpur13
topho you forgot jenas.
logos8
Another last 5 min goal and **** subs. What are we paying AVb for? Please Levy just get rid before we waste January
mattspurs1982
AVB hasn't made the right choices today and has had an off day. We are missing half a team still. Parker, Kaboul, Benni. These are all first choice pick!!
woodyn17
Another insipid performance, I don't care that we were actually leading this game. We ain't played well. It's another ditto
PERTH OZSPUR
Forgot Dembele
woodyn17
let's look at the bright side guys. we scored from set pieces and we led the game for an hour :)
logos8
BTW - We all love Jan, but he his no LB.
thenuge
thenuge you i and philbil thinks the same for the keeper reaction
what_sux
Sluggish and slow with no desire to play. What happened to Spurs who at least had some space before? The answer: clueless manager.
Moscovite
This is going to make our North London derby a cracker it seems, it's a 6 pointer!!!
what_sux
does he make you miss VDV tophobunty?
Guyver
vertonghen showed us he is not a LB. Dempsey showed us he isn't good enough. Walker showed us he needs dropping. Gallas showed us he is past he sell by date. Hudd showed us he is not a starter too many loose balls. AVB showed us he isn't a substitution technician. Levy showed us he need to get some money and buy quality players and not average players.

We can't keep a clean sheet, we can't hold out for a win and we can't compete we are not good enough.
thfan
no Ade-Defoe = no points..... lucky to lead in 1st half, no control at any time, negative spoiling game mostly, no intention to attack the pen-box, Bale never tracking back to mark the 'winger' Zaboleta.... went out in a whimper
Viyyash-Ramosh
Get this clown out now and take Dempsey off with him too.
Moscovite
You have to be deluded or stupid to pick Friedel, Gallas and Walker in your defence and then think you can defend a lead.
SpuriousLife
This is a classic example of a manager making the wrong substitutions and a manager making the right ones. Ade was our link betwenn defence and attack, and did not seem to be injured or fatigued. Can not understand his substitution. Mancini on the other hand realized that bale was leaving a big gap between himself and verts and put on maicon to exploit it. Dempsey again showed with quality around him how limited he is.
spurfect one
We need signings! This squad is shown still too weak
what_sux
lost three out of 4 in the league. That hasn't happened in a while!! Since Harry was in charge infact!!! We need our best players back!!! Lloris has to be our No1!! Brad has the reaction of a fecking sloth!! Chin up lads. This is the champions we were playing and played well for 60 mins. We are lacking the players we need!!!
woodyn17
How can you play such a high line in defence when your CB have no pace. surely that is basic football sense???? I knew they would equalise just like the rest of you did and then go on to win. I am sorry but I do not like AVB as our manager, i don't like his tactics at home and I think his constant trying to defend a lead by going defensive has not worked and cost us in 4 games now. What he is trying to do does not suit our players unless of course there are no expectations for this season?
philbill
while this is no disaster to lose away to the unbeaten champions we really did not play well today. we are missing key players and for that I will cut AVB a lot of slack. I am also glad that he finally dropped defoe, real shame ade got that yellow and things were getting heated with zabeletta, I hope he wouldn't have been subbed otherwise. I do blame AVB for playing friedel, who will never steal us points, for subbing lennon who defends better than most and could have been important in the last minutes and for playing/not subbing an increasingly ineffective dempsey. we need dembele, BAE, kaboul and parker back asap
Guernman
Did any of us think we were actually going to win?
woodyn17
thfan - post of the year - couldn't have put it better myself - all points nailed precisely.
Moscovite
I am blaming Hudd as well for the 1st goal. He fails to track back and just lets Aquero go. Lazy fat git. 2nd goal, he just lets Silva have time on the ball. At the end of the day, we weren't good enough, the champions came back and played us off the park.
thenuge
I'm worried.
MrSpurs
Avb= worst manager in the league. ***** off and take that useless prat dempsey with you. You are a joke. Dawson for walker whenwe have a natural rightback on the bench. Why on earth would you take off Ade. I've had enough, ***** off avb and bring back harry.
01tottenham
Although overall had a very good game but Ade was partly to blame for the 1st goal, should have released the ball much earlier wide than he did, we had an overlap situation and he held on to it way too long. Then do not know who made that ridiculous "pass" but should have been back to Friedel or hoofed out of play a la Caulker usual style! 2nd goal, Caulker asleep and not going with his man, Daws did his best but think Friedel should maybe have done a bit better, but then probably so should have Hart with our one! Even though they dominated play, very few chances and thought even though we did not play anywhere near our best still deserved a point!
El Jefe
lets bid for dzeko in january, he can't be happy to be fourth choice at city and his goals per minutes stats must be off the charts
Guernman
I said I was happy to write off this season but only if we used it to put in place solid foundations on which to build the future of the club. I'm not seeing much direction or clarity in what we're doing at the moment. In fact it's been the opposite. We seem slow, lethargic, cautious, confused, unable to defend as a team and AVB is beginning to alienate players instead of getting them round to his way of thinking. I'm beginning to get worried. I don't think this project is working either!
SpuriousLife
It's this high ****ing line. At the start of the second half they were caught offside like 3 or 4 times and you could tell it was only a matter of time before they timed it right... and then Aguero did.
TopSpur13
Guernman a bid would be pointless as its always the same problem, not the cost of the player but paying the wages they demand.
philbill
Thfan - top post completely agree.
MrSpurs
Whinge, whinge, whinge. We were beaten by a team with a blank cheque. It was obvious that citeh would get the better of us in the end, especially when they could bring on someone effective like Dzeko with Balotelli missing. They have the strength in depth we could only dream of. We on the other hand are missing key players who could have gotten us a draw at least on another day. This game was bound to be tight and frustrate both sides.
zombie-greavsie
Lennon was poor, but no-one on the bench to really replace him with. Thudd was getting worse as the game went on, but i'd still rather he stayed on than Livermore replacing him. Dempsey was nonexistent, but is Siggy really going to make any difference? He's been as bad as Dempsey this season. Only game changer we had on the bench was Defoe, who arguably should have replaced Dempsey. Man City's subs of Maicon and Dzeko were the difference.
Guyver
We are missing some key players and i will continue to back AVB but i am not impressed. We are just not playing well at all. I am starting to think of other managers to bring in, so i know i am starting to doubt.
asherthesmasher
If there's blame for AVB it's not in the subs. Who was going to come on? Walker went off injured. Ade was tired, though I'd have left him on because he at least wins balls. Anyone else notice that Defoe has not won a single race to a ball this season. 3 times, that I can recollect, he has run at a tired defender in the last minutes and he has been beat for pace each time.

Difference in the game was Hart made a world class save and Friedel leaked two more saveable goals. If you say that a penalty can't be considered saveable, then that and the tap in are the only two goals that couldn't have been saved. THe mistake of AVB is continuing to persist with a slow past it keeper over a world class keeper. We need saves. We need a keeper who will do more than save what is at him. Yes he threw his feet at a ball at him and he saved it, but then what does anyone expect? Him to jump over the ball. Hart save Bale. Friedel had nothing. There's the difference. COYS
peterballb
they've got aguero, tevez, silva, dzeko, toure, etc playing at home... the spine of our team is out... what did we expect? must admit dempsey looks slow.
ledders77
01tottenham - You are so biased. Take your previous manager blinded eyes off, yes AVB team selections and subsituitions may not be good, but you have to note his amount of injuries, and not getting the players he wanted in summer,
what_sux
Last post, just so annoyed at the moment, but Yes taking Ade off for Defoe was wrong. Defoe for Dempsey and let Ade drop back............hindsight I guess. Those slating AVB though are being unreasonable so early in his tenure, we are not the LA Lakers :)
thenuge
Left back & Creative/Technical midfielder in January. Dempsey as a back up to Bale/Lennon and Vert to play CB. Caulker was struggling massively today too.
Tactically Challenge
We do have a really poor bench.
asherthesmasher
I want the next match, Vertonghen with Caulker at centreback, Naughton at right back if BAE is back, Lloris in goal, No Dempsey please too.
what_sux
Dempsey had more touches in injury time, than in the rest of the 85-90 minutes of the game. Very, very poor and at this rate would be shipping him back to Fulham in a swap deal + cash for Ruiz if they would have him back (unfortunately doubt it). Now there's a player that can link midfield and attack! To be fair its the first proper outing for Ade and Demps together which is what many including myself wanted at the start of the season and harsh to judge them on first game together in terms of a partnership especially away to City. But whereas Ade has now had 2 good games on the trot, Demps has had many more starts and is yet to have a telling game! On current displays needs to be benched and Ade/Defoe given a chance. Its when we play best and actually look an attacking threat, so what if its 4-4-2, if it works for us - whats the problem?!
El Jefe
AVB getting sacked again? How many managers will that be for Spurs in the last few years?
foreign_viewer
thenuge and what_sux - couldn't agree more. I think AVB got it wrong today by the subs but would HR have got a result? We would have been playing Gallas and Daws to start and Caulker wouldn't have played at all this season. People are calling for AVB'S when they were calling for HR'S head at the end of last. My guess - kids who know FA about life and football!!!
woodyn17
The high line and the team pressing is hurting us more than helping us. Our players looked shattered by the 70th minute.
TopSpur13
I don't agree with those who say we should have attacked Man city at their ground. With our defense there would only be 1 winner in that battle, Man City would have battered us and we'd all be complaining more. A player like Thudd caught high up the pitch with speedy players like Silva, Augero and Tevez dashing through our midfield would have been disastrous.
Guyver
thfc1882whl, what substitutions would you have made? Siggurdsson for Dempsey. Defoe for Ade. What else was there. Who was going to come off the bench and control the game. The only thing, as I see AVB could have done, would be to start the better keeper. He could have left things as it was and, if we lost, been castigated by the same ones complaining about the subs, for doing nothing. REally, who was going to come off the bench and take the game by the scruff of the neck which is what we needed? Who is that mysterious player? If you or others can't name him, then AVB is not to blame. Walker was forced and Ade was clearly tired. COYS
peterballb
Dempsey is the result of Levy's flawed transfer policy. This is why we are now little more than a mid table team. Defoe for Adabayor who didn't look tired to me is one of the worst substitutions I can remember
jonathan01
Topbounty, we did enough to frustrate them at home and put them off for most of it. Even at that it was an eventuality that they would prevail. I think this game was tight for both teams and stopped either from being creative or having any kind of flow to their play.
zombie-greavsie
peterballb +1
what_sux
woodyn17 +1
what_sux
players available for free in 7 months time: llorente, dzageov, sissoko, huntelaar, holtby,walcott
what_sux
Walkers injury could be a blessing in disguise!!!
woodyn17
very .imited with THudd in the middle when the opposition have the ball, there was an acre of space between Thudd and Aguero giving him the time and space to pick out Dzeko.... its just very frustrating that despite their huge squad they dont need to replace injured players but Spurs have the likes of Kaboul, Parker and BAE out long-term.... and Friedel is just too slow and took an age to attempt to block Aguero's predictable shot and even the Dzeko header was at him, surely its time for Lloris or why buy a bigname keeper and keep a geriatric ?.... Defoe-Ade longterm bigtime now please
Viyyash-Ramosh
Should have been Defoe for Demps not Ade!
El Jefe
Thing that really fecks me off is that we lost to a goal in the last 5 minutes again!!!
woodyn17
We should never have sold VDV.
MrSpurs
@thenuge I am not slating him. i just don't like his tactics and the style of football he plays, plus he persists with poor players such as Dempsey. Why not start with ade and defoe buzzing from his hatrick? Then bring on Dempsey if that did not work.
philbill
I think Adebayor and Walker is taken off partially because they are the only ones yellow carded too, but Friedel was not at fault for either goal? he could have his reactions much faster for both occasions to be honest
what_sux
I want ye next match to have a manager with a clue
mattspurs1982
Caulker should have stayed with his man also for that 2nd goal!
El Jefe
The high line is only a problem because Walker doesn't get it and Gallas is way too slow. Every breakthrough is off the right side. It's every game. COYS
peterballb
Must be something wrong with Joe Harts reactions as well, because the goal he conceded was similar. Lloris MIGHT have saved City's 2nd goal though, but not the 1st.
Guyver
The keyboard warriors have sharpened the keyboard keys and are on the warpath again. What did you expect away at City? Flair, attacking football and a 4-0 win? They get to choose from the likes of Ballotelli, Aguero, Tevez, Dzeko, Silva and Toure, how many of our team today would get into the City side? Dempsey was poor but what was the alternative? Defoe and Ade was never going to work away at City, Sandro and Dembele would have given us more quality and possession in midfield but could not be. I think under the circumstances we done as well as could be expected. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
Friedel is a pathetic stiff git who's bringing this club down. Why canT people see this. The man has no reactions. Dempsey, friedel bye bye you aragant Americans.
01tottenham
BC, Lennon did not do much but then neither did Bale. We played the game effectively with 10 men due to Demps' disappearing act and he is the one that is supposed to bring players like Lennon and Bale into the game and link midfield and attack. The only one doing any linking was Ade, but then we had no up front! Defoe should have started with Ade in the hole IMHO!
El Jefe
Very early to say, I know, but if we keep playing like today, not Top 4 this season for Spurs. The final score doesn´t annoy me as much the way we have been playing does. Honestly, we didn´t deserve to beat Wigan last weekend and we didn´t deserve to beat City today. We are too poor since Dembele got his injury. Huddlestone cannot be our creative midfielder but who else we have ?? Sigurdsson ?? I think this lad is feeling that play for Tottenham is not the same that playing for Swansea or Hoffenheim. AVB has his share of guilty as well. Don´t wanna him to get sacked now, but he must be clever enough to realise some XI simply don´t wotrk. Stop insisting with Dempsey and Ade. Cannot believe Dempsey forget how to play football. So either he is been played wrongly or he is doing a Sigurdsson. We should have kept VdV till january at least.
AlexSpur
Topho, Friedel was poorly positioned on the first - cheating way too the left because he has no push to the left any more and the second one, with better reactions, was saveable. As for Hart's goal, his reaction told you he knew he should have had it. The save on Bale though, Friedel never makes. That's the difference just as the two brilliant saves by Cech was the difference in the Chelsea game. As for blaming AVB for not trying to take the game to City, which players were you going to use to do that? I thought we did a great job of stopping them from doing what they wanted. Two saves by Friedel and we win the game, AVB is brilliant and Friedel a top keeper. COYS
peterballb
what_sux walcott doesn't want to come to spurs and we probably don't want him either.
logos8
AVB's substitutions, tactics and man management are all questionable.
MrSpurs
logos8 - I personally think Holtby would be good, Walcott is not wanted, but if he wants to come here, then I don't mind, imagine he do a vertically opposite of Campbell that will be a sweet revenge.
what_sux
El Jefe, I agree that Ade should have been in the hole. I'd have had Dempsey up top though and not Defoe. Either way, Dempsey was being forced to play deeper, which was by design to stop Toure having his long runs, which, given that I can't recall one, he did. I don't think Defoe would have been better in that role. Defoe up top of Adebayor, or Dempsey, for that matter, would have opened up the box to box runs. As I see it, AVB gave Dempsey a role, and it was not that of playmaker or striker, it was that of spanner. I think he did it well. Sure, he's slow, but he does get in to smart positions. COYS
peterballb
thfc1882, City would have played like champions if we had Ade and Defoe up top with no midfield to supply them. We would have been outplayed in midfield and could have ended up with another 5-1 thumping.
ItalianYiddo
Oh dear AVB !!......dempsey for defoe ! ...shocking decision !!!!.....given defoe scored a hatrick in the last spurs game.
82spursdebut
Lewis Holtby anybody??
what_sux
More of the same. No invention, no attempt to win a game, average players trying not to lose by too many goals. It would be better to get Erickson or Trappatoni or any old guy from Serie A as manager. They know how to play this old fashioned Italian way of parking the box and hoping to get a goal by some freak, AVB can't organise defence like these guys can.
Forever Spurs
When we win it's a bonus, don't beat yourself up over a lot of second rate, one trick pony players, someone should have told Dempsey that it was only a minutes silence, not 90+. Pop on a postage stamp what he did today, Lennon is Lennon, but then we have had years to replace him, not to worry A.
spu 4 life
I not sure what kind of impact Defoe and Ade would have had in this game. we might have been more threatening going forward, but as poor as Dempsey was, he did do a lot of tracking back and plug up a few holes in our midfield, which neither Ade or Defoe would have done as consistently.
Guyver
spu 4 life - LOL at "someone should have told Dempsey that it was only a minutes silence, not 90+"
what_sux
Why do we expect more of Lennon than Bale? What did Bale do? 1 good shot but he was otherwise absent. Mancini's tactics were to take them out of the game, and he succeeded. Walker's passing is not exactly setting Lennon free, is it. Lennon did defend well though. Why do people on here expect Lennon to throw the team on his shoulders? Walcott may well score a few more than Lennon if he were in our side, but how would he make Walker a better passer? His defence is terrible, so it would not be long before Walker was exposed for the terrible positional player he is. Lennon is what he is. Mancini coached to take the wingers out of the game. He succeeded. AVB coached to contain Toure, and he did. Hart made the save. Friedel didn't. There's the game. COYS
peterballb
Forever Spurs, which of our available players was going to provide the guile and invention?
ItalianYiddo
I still haven't got over losing to Wigan!! That's 4 defeats in a row.
MrSpurs
with defoe upfront..adebayor would have dropped back into the midfield, similar to thursday night. dempsey was non existant.
82spursdebut
score a hat trick in spurs most important game this season, so far..............and get dropped !!!....lol
82spursdebut
17 goals and 6 assists last year in that position. Yes, I'm sure. That said, it was not AVB's tactic, which, as I see it was to have Dempsey contain Toure, their most influential player, and I believe he did that. What would Defoe have done in this game? There were no balls through the middle. Lennon and Bale were marked out of the game. Ade did well to hold up and Dempsey played a strategic role. Defoe could not have done that. Doesn't have it in him. Couldn't even beat a tired player in a race for the ball. What was Defoe going to do but free up Toure? COYS
peterballb
agreed peterballb, my problem with AVB today is that he started friedel and subbed lennon. otherwise he just didn't have the options. there is no shame to losing at city without kaboul, BAE, parker, dembele. but to keep picking friedel is madness and it is effecting lloris negatively, adding pressure when he does play, knawing away confidence, and for what.. a 41 year old, who was never there to be past it. friedel cannot be blamed for the goals today, to save them would be unexpected, thus stealing points. its what gomes did, hart does, cech does, raina did... what lloris can do
Guernman
If we play Ade in the AM role, Siggy and Demps will get even less minutes, which im ok with. But it highlights the weakness in the squad when a striker (Ade) is more effective in attacking midfield, than the players we recently bought specifically for that role. Plus Dempsey is 29, we can't wait forever for him to "settle", his career will most probably take a nose dive once he hits 30, its happened to better players, Keane, Shevchenko ect
Guyver
thfc, we nearly got a point and IMO that was the very best we could hope for. I think your old mate Levy has to shoulder the bulk of the blame at the moment for not backing AVB with creative players ie Moutinho and Villian.
ItalianYiddo
Guyver I have been saying for a year now that Ade's best suited to play behind the main striker. He very rarely gets in the box to receive balls he's happier providing the balls.
ItalianYiddo
The most worrying sign is that players do not try to perform for their manager or indeed for the club. Like someone said they didn't even bother to win or play football at least. How many runs Bale made? Next to none. Why is he suddenly disinterested? Players looked like doomed from the very start. They didn't put up a fight or at least make an effort. Absolutely toothless. Sandro is the only player in this team who's got balls. Literally.
Moscovite
The most worrying sign is that players do not try to perform for their manager or indeed for the club. Like someone said they didn't even bother to win or play football at least. How many runs Bale made? Next to none. Why is he suddenly disinterested? Players looked like doomed from the very start. They didn't put up a fight or at least make an effort. Absolutely toothless. Sandro is the only player in this team who's got balls. Literally.
Moscovite
thfc, I am seriously thinking of joining your club!!
ItalianYiddo
tophobunty - The 2 back to back stops Friedel are straight to him as well as the second goal, for a keeper that difficulty of saving is average imo. Friedel is solid, but he don't have the pace to be a sweeper keeper, which only system needs, and not fast enough in his reflexes for shot stopping.
what_sux
BC - I got a bit of telling off when daring to suggest that Walcott was better than Lennon on here quite a few months ago! I said in the summer wanted a new RW, Willian would have been great as showed against Chelski. That said, Lennon still an important part of the overall squad even if new RW brought in. Moutinho and Willian would have made a big difference creatively and so much better than Siggy and Demps. We attempted to find quality in the bargain bin but so far proving you get what you pay for! With what we paid for both of them we could probably have got one of the other two but so be it!
El Jefe
the reason lloris is warming the bench is b'cos...he has been poor in a spurs shirt.....whilst friedel has been very, good to ok.
82spursdebut
We could have gone there , played our offensive system and seen what came of it. I think most would agree, that given the players on the two squads, given their strikers, given the presence of Toure and given the difference in quality between Friedel and Hart, we'd probably win one of 10 and get destroyed in 5 or 6 of those. You just can't do that. That was City's mistake in the year we got 4th. Mancini, at that point, managed his team to get the best out of his players. Now, he manages to stop the opposition from doing what they wish and has confidence that his quality players, more often than not, will be the difference makers. Proved true again today. COYS
peterballb
ItalianYiddo, I think Ade's best played as a striker, I don't think he has the passing range to be a great AM but he has the abilities to be a great CF. Henry often drifted out wide to the left flank, but he was better as a striker than he was a winger. Same applies to Ade imo, though he can be more effective as an AM than Siggy and Demps, from what we've seen this season.
Guyver
It just occurred to me: why not give the job to Steffen Freund? He looks lively and emotionally driven to me. Surely he'd do no worse. He can be our Roberto Di Matteo?
Moscovite
lloris has not been bad, he has made one real mistake. he controls the box better than friedel, has made saves friedel wouldn't, he takes risks friedel wouldnt to ease pressure off the defenders. how often does friedel leave defenders in the lurch because he is rooted to his line. he has shown himself to be 100 times more athletic than the 41 year old, how surprising. we are creating a self fullfilling prophecy with lloris because it is a ridiculous and embarrassing situation for him to find himself in when he chose to come to spurs as he comes into his peak years to find himself benched. the absurdity puts unnecessary pressure on him. friedel will never save a penalty, never save anything that requires lift off, never control his box and never effectively distribute. lloris may make mistakes as he settles, no problem with me, given a run of games and knowing he is no1 he will soon be one of the best in the PL. FFS we have spent a fortune on one of the worlds best keepers, lest ******** play him please
Guernman
All you armchair premier league managers make me laugh. You make knee jerk assumptions, and criticise team selection and substitutions with the benefit of hindsight. Get out there in the dugout, make the team selections and the substitutions BEFORE the event and then see if you can do any better with the poor selection of players we have available.
Hot_Spur
tophobounty, Friedel was way past where he needed to be to protect the near post. He was cheating to his left because he no longer has anything to his left. No push, no nothing. He's done and was about three years ago. We need better than stopping what's at you provided it's slow enough. COYS
peterballb
perhaps, spurs should make arsenal a offer for walcott in january ...and tell walcott we will make you our No.1. centre forward. £30 mill' please mr.levy.
82spursdebut
82spursdebut - Yes Lloris may not have been good yet, but he kept a clean sheet in his first and only start in BPL. Friedel has not kept a clean sheet in 10 BPL games despite how many appearance in BPL and you say he is very good to ok? I think some need to have same level of expection for both keepers.
what_sux
Daniel Levy - please leave now. Your transfer policy and ineptitude in appointing managers has taken us from a top four team to also rans in a matter of months. Fourth place this season was there for the taking but with your pathetic stewardship of the club we are nowhere near that level. We now have the worst manager in the premier league (who else would play such a strong team against Maribor three days before one of our toughest league match and substitute the only guy who was keeping possession for us when we were hanging on for a point). How many points have we now lost from winning positions. How many goals have we now conceded in the last ten minutes. I have already lost count. Bale will leave on August 31st 2013, not because Levy wants to hold out for the highest price but to leave himself as little time as possible to get a replacement. The only doubt now is how long will Levy wait before admitting he dropped a huge changer with AVB and replace him.
jonathan01
think the team playedf as well as they could, given the tactics and team-selection.. I see why he played Ade in the Defoe role cos he could keep the team just like against Utd. but alas the wide players seemed abit off-form and our main tactic was to defend anything apart from a losing situation which only happened after 87 mins of play.... still should get 4th ahead of a weak Arsenal and Everton should fall by the wayside by Xmas or so...
Viyyash-Ramosh
I think we also have to accept the simple fact that we are not good enough, especially with so many players out! To go and beat City away should technically put as in as title contenders, which we are clearly not. We beat Utd true and very satisfying it was but have to accept was with a large dose of luck as we were slaughtered there for the 2nd half and even 1st half was all down to counter-attacking play! We are a long way away from dominating against the top teams and getting results and its just a question of hopefully giving the right manager time to build a good enough squad to challenge. We have the makings of a good squad but need time to turn it into a top one and with that we also need a large dose of luck as we do not have the funds to make certain of things such as City!
El Jefe
what sux'...no..what i said was....friedel "has" been v'good to ok. would you drop a keeper performing ok ...for a keeper playing poorly in his last two games. I wouldn't.
82spursdebut
Guyver, I am talking about playing Ade as the second striker in a 4411. He seems to have lost the hunger for scoring goals and I am including last season. There was an instance today when he was in the box with an opportunity to shoot and he chose to pass, the complete opposite to Defoe.
ItalianYiddo
We can get Llorente, Huntelaar, Dzagoev and Holtby on the cheap, then go get them please :-)
what_sux
thfc1882whl, great to quote Bill Nicholson, but then what would he have done with our lineup? Sure if BAE, Parker, Dembele, Kaboul were all fit for selection, we could have used more "positive" tactics, but a manager must manage based on what you have. Other than Lloris, and Defoe for Dempsey (which I believe would have freed up Toure), what selections and tactics were you thinking AVB should have used to counter the fact that Mancini played to remove the effect of our wingers? Hit me with it. Have a punt. COYS
peterballb
haha...big c...you know what you are !...lol......have fun
82spursdebut
lloris has started to look on edge because he has been put in this ridiculous position which adds immense pressure. his first appearances, against lazio for example, he was clearly a class above brad. we are creating a situation where we effect a world class keepers confidence in order to justify not picking him in the first place... only at spurs
Guernman
Awful, negative performance.Instead of trying to win,we gave them the game.It was painfully obvious that they were going to score;it was painfully obvious that we wee giving them every opportunity.We should have gone out to win;they were frustrated and giving away load of free kicks and what did we do? Yep.Just sat back and waited for the inevitable.Terrible tactics yet again.Am beginning to lose faith in AVB.He is a loser who cannot attack.I can nowsee why the players at Chelsea uned against him.Lennon and Bale anonymous today.Dempsey ..NON EXISTENT.Entertained by Adebayor.Sandro,Caulker,Verts earned their money.Hudd...well no progress for 3 seasons and not good enough for the pace of the Prem.We could have won this today once we got our lucky goal and had other lucky breaks (Gallas handball!!).Defending does not score goals.
wentworth
El Jefe - It is AVB's job to make us better and that doesnt mean during the transfer window - AVB needs to improve tactically.
MrSpurs
lennon had no service.. walkers passing was horrendous again today. first goal could have been blocked by hudd, its the third or forth time iv seen him stand by, a metre away from the player, as a goal is scored. if parker was playing in his position we'd be fine, although dembele would have to be pushed up as support for ade. Ade had his moments today.. offers so much more than defoe. For me defoe will always be best utilised as an impact sub and starter in second tier games. all this rubbish about "AVB should be sacked" is unfounded. He hasnt had the time or players at his disposal to mount a decent effort on the top 4 yet. Time will prove it was a good appointment, for when he has a complete team it will be far more consistent and reliable than harry, who was fortunate to have so many players come into their prime when they did
athenspurs
82spursdebut - Some of Friedel's good saves are not even highlighted when Lloris made them, why? because he is expected to make them? Lloris does not did poorly last 2 games, it is just the odd error, that without regular football. Note, Lloris made the only BPL clean sheet in his first and only BPL game, Friedel has not kept 1 clean sheet in 10 BPL matches, despite how many appearances in BPL before.
what_sux
If this is as expected and is turning out to be anyway a transitional year, does that not mean that players like Lloris should be getting properly bedded in? Caulker is getting such an opportunity and he cost nothing, why not Lloris who cost a small fortune by comparison?!
El Jefe
would be crazy to get Llorente when Ade is here and getting 100k a week.. maybe upgrade to a 5 inch taller version of Defoe but not sure who that would be.... still got Kaboul, Parker and BAE to return so not all bad.... JUST PLAY ADE-DEFOE AND STICK WITH IT...
Viyyash-Ramosh
THfan + Spurfect + Big C = all that needs to be said. I thought we'd get our pants pulled down, and that makes it all the worse. The game could have been ours, but too many missing, heartless Phucking overpaid, talentless, to$$bags with no will to win brought us to another predictable (although I expected us to lose more heavily, having seen every game this season) result. Sandro, Ade and Caulker at least played like they wanted to win, the rest didn't deserve to earn today what most of you earn in a year
PERTH OZSPUR
here's a crazy idea that may just work.... put Townsend at left-midfield and play Bale as striker ahead of Defoe.....Bale is the best natural striker we have: pace, size, shooting, selfishness. he has a great scoring-ratio already from left wing, think how many he'd score down the middle
Viyyash-Ramosh
ItalianYiddo, Ade's never been selfish, if he feels someone else is in a better shooting position, he'll usually pass rather than shoot, thats what he done with the Thudd back heel (if thats the move you're talking about). Ade had about 4 players in front of him who would have likely blocked his shot, the back heel gave Thudd a clear strike at goal. I don't think that means he's lost his hunger to score goals, thats Ade being Ade.
Guyver
lloris made two big errors.......vs'..norwich and maribor........I know, i was watching. And they were nothing to do with nerves or expectation.....vs norwich he had slippy gloves on.....and vs' maribor he "twice" made a error of judgement.
82spursdebut
Mr Spurs, he needs to be given the correct tools if he is to start and finish the job properly. He proved at Porto with the right tools he can do the job. At Chelski - they were a poor side, as showed by finishing 6th in our league. CL was a complete fluke, a disgrace to the competition quite frankly! Indeed if Chelski were such a good side, why the mini overhaul this last Summer?!
El Jefe
I'm not sure what is most depressing, the performance which was pathetic or the inane comments on here. My hopes for AVB are fading fast as he seems to coached out all attacking flair. It's all so static nobody has time on the ball and few options. Ludicrous to blame Friedel.
Love totty
Viyyah, great joke brother. Townsend ought to be farmed out for a loan to nevercomebacksville dispirited. My first, and hopefully last look at him in the first game against Maribor convinced me of that
PERTH OZSPUR
Viyyash-Ramosh, yea that is a crazy idea lol, Bale rarely looks good when playing centrally and Townsend hasnt really impressed when he has played.
Guyver
BigC, that's not fair. We can debate the merits of Sigurdsson and Dempsey as signings and discuss what other viable (read affordable and willing to come) options that there were out there, but what should not be up for debate is that Pienaar, Gio, Kranjcar and Corluka all wanted out as did Modric and VDV the second it was clear Harry was done. We pursued Isco, Llorente, Moutinho and others. Players have to want to come, to accept wages in keeping with what we can afford and the other team and third party owners all have to be willing to play ball. Dempsey was what was available and willing to come at the 11th hour. I think he could do well, but he needs to be up top as a striker with Ade behind. Not because he's fast but because he reads the play well and gets himself in to good positions. He's more likely to get on the end of the numerous Lennon and Bale crosses than Defoe, IMO, of course. COYS
peterballb
Well said Guyver, I remember thinking, if that was Defoe, it would never have been a chance, it would have been blindly smashed against the nearest convenient blockage
PERTH OZSPUR
he we go again, same ol spurs, are we ever going to learn. lennon an walker again clueless, why dones he start when he costs us goals,and again daws ball watching, dempsey is lost . bale wasnt interested, sandro was great thdd done ok an brad was fantastic. 3 league losses on bounce and it seems a long way away from us beating the league leaders.
123spurs
Our problems started on that day the club decided to go for AVB instead of Martinez. Those who consider our injury list as an excuse for negative and lacklustre performances, think of this: Wigan (despite they lost Moses), Wigan (whose entire squad costs less than what we paid for Bentley), I repeat Wigan currently play better football than us.
Moscovite
El Jefe - Moyes, Pardew, Martinez, Allardyce and Steve Clarke are all doing a better job than AVB with lesser players imo.
MrSpurs
townsend.....impressed last season. Still young...He may still have a future at spurs. But falque looks promising at the min' and carroll...well he may progress too.
82spursdebut
The time to truely start judging AVB is when he has a fully fit squad to pick from and then see how he does for a decent enough period. Also his transfer dealings and how they do, not bargain bin buying hoping for the best with the likes of Siggy and Demps. I will be honest and say was not disappointed at getting Demps in the summer given his record last season but AVB wanted the likes of Moutinho and Willian, he had had to settle for what has been brought in. Hopefully Levy will see that they are simply not doing the job and perhaps start backing AVB properly and getting what he wants to work with. Its already starting to feel like even though he has just come in there is already fresh deadwood!!!!!
El Jefe
Love totty, clearly you do not expect a keeper who will make top saves. Just save what is hit at you slow enough to get to. Never mind coming for crosses and corners that always has us on the back foot, or his constant hoofing up to a statistical giveaway (65% of all goal kicks result in possession being turned over). Friedel is very average. He just is not guilty of throwing the ball in to his own net. Joy. COYS
peterballb
Blame the players not the manager, most of them are the same as last season, just playing with no heart or passion.
PERTH OZSPUR
So are we saying that AVB can only be a good manager if he gets £60M to spend in the transfer window??!!! What has happened to a manager 'managing' what he has at his disposal.
MrSpurs
123 think it was Caulker who was caught ball watching, Daws tried to cover up for his mistake IMO! Caulker did not follow the Dzeko run and let him in scott free!
El Jefe
Peter - If Friedel is so obviously average why does AVB pick him?
MrSpurs
Mr Spurs - polishing turds?
El Jefe
thfc1882whl, it took half a season for Henry to adjust, are you prepared to wait that long for an experiment that may ultimately fail? I doubt it, on top of that who plays on the left while Bale makes that transition?
Guyver
big c....i take one game at a time..........i'd have had lloris in for friedel vs....maribor, as posted, after the wigan game.......but after lloris's mistake against maribor.......i too would have returned to friedel for the city game,as posted. next game...friedel..for me, till i see reasons to drop him.
82spursdebut
***transition to CF?
Guyver
BigC, what did you want Lennon to do today? I didn't see him giving the ball away, the few times he had it. He never had passing options (forward or back) because Ade is not an up top guy, he prefers to have his back to goal, and because Walker is just clueless. Lennon defends well and, when able throws in crosses. The fact Bale was marked out of the game should really tell you how much Mancini, in his negative tactics, focused on eliminating our wing play. We still could have nicked the game but for two saves not made. Shame there is not a rule that you have to shoot right at older keepers and do so at a pace they can get to. COYS
peterballb
What a totally anonymous player Dempsey is? Is he a striker? Nope. Is he a midfielder...ugh....nope. Is he anything? Just can't think of what he is.What did he do today????What did he do last week??Lennon has no competition and is a terrible wimp...he needs to bog up.As someone has pointed out ...Lennon v Walcott...no contest.What has happened to the free flowing Spurs. I was bored to death by our negative tactics today...waiting for the obvious. Who wanted to win the most? Very sad day.Disappointing and now we have to look for yet another manager.The guy hasn't a clue I'm afraid and I think he's losing the players looking at their body language.
wentworth
Agreed BC, hijacking Liverpool deals is madness when you look at their transfer policy for the last 3 years!
Guyver
Dempsey starting and staying on... Ade off... Defensive subs... AVB completely lacks fingerspitzengefühl. And how come he's setting us up for negative football - it's Tottenham, not Stoke or a italian side he's managing.
spurswede
MrSpurs, I believe, like was the case with Crouch, it's a contract thing. Just a guess on my part, but there is no way in heaven you sit a top 5 keeper, who, at the end of this year will be all we have, for a 41 year old relic. Our defence is much more shaky with Friedel in. WBA, Norwich, Wigan. There is just no conviction that a save will be made if a defensive mistake is made. Sure, Gomes was always an adventure, but his saves were top notch and he did save about 30% of penalties and in his entire time at Spurs I saw him go the wrong way 3 times. He was quite a shot stopper, but sitting for 2 years has ended his career. Lloris makes world class saves for France all the time. It's frankly expected. 2 penalty saves in the last two international breaks to boot. Friedel has conceded 18 consecutive penalties. The players know this. They all know a mistake is in the back of the net. COYS
peterballb
To be fair, AVB given the injuries, new methods, lack of "his" signings, etc is not doing that badly - only 3 points off top 4! I would settle for top 5-6 if it means a decent transitional year in which players like Lloris, Caulker, Verts, get bedded in properly and we add further like quality in the next 2 windows. AVB has to be given atleast 2 season's to see what can really achieve IMO!
El Jefe
thfc1882whl who plays on the left? We don't have the tools Arsenal had when they bought Henry. They had Pires? on the left, we'll have who? Its just not worth the risk, it would be managerial suicide by AVB.
Guyver
Yes Peter, I to want Gomes back!
spurswede
I suppose I should look on the bright side. I've got a hot babe in my bed awaiting my arrival and it's time I paid her her due. Adios, enjoy the disection of the disturbing disreputable diatribe about the disgraceful disability of our disillusioned demoralised dastards to dare
PERTH OZSPUR
I don't know if anyone has noticed but we don't have Modric in our midst any longer. We all want free flowing football, but who, in our MF, is going to hold the ball up, create space and pick out that perfect pass while reading the game at a level most never achieve? RM wanted Modric because that's what he does. News Flash. There are only a dozen or so of such players out there. None of them are affordable or beating down the door to come to Spurs. We have to make do. Gallas is playing because Kaboul is out and BAE is out. Hudd is starting because Dembele and Parker are out. We don't have a top established striker because none of them are affordable and they cost too much. This is Spurs reality. Our best striker (IMO) is not good enough for City and is still on 170k/week. Balotelli was not even on the bench. I believe tactically we did the best with the players that were available and but for Hart making a save and Friedel not making 2, we could have nicked it. Great free kick and conversion. Caulker is a monster in the air. COYS
peterballb
Personally im desperate for Lloris to start all our games from now on so that Friedel is no longer blamed for every goal we concede. I think by focusing so much on Friedel, some are taking their eye off the real issues. He's received a disproportionate amount of blame this season imo.
Guyver
thfc1882whl, or we could simply buy a striker, its no guarantee that Bale will turn into Henry, it could be a failed experiment and a waste of time (and points). Would all depend on whether AVB feels Bale can make that transition at all.
Guyver
I'm miserable because yet again we have failed to bring together a title chaallenging squad. We are always three or four players short.

Has AVB actually brought any players?Siggy, Vertonghen I think were on their way before AVB arrived and I think Dempsey was a last minute buy when we couldn't seal a different player so that leaves Dembele. Not even sure he was AVB choice and and Lloris another Levy choice I believe.

The results are annoying but losing our Spurs style of play is worse. We are no longer a side that is pleasing on the eye. I miss our Spurs now is that down to Levy not releasing funds or AVB poor management is always up for debate. I just want it sorted out. Last season we missed a great opportunity.

I feel we have lost better players than we have brought in and that is the saddening thing.
thfan
BigC, Lennon is not the best there is, or even close, but he's the best we have. He is better than most defensively though and he, along with Bale, have created lots of chances this season. The fact no one is there is not their fault. I suggested Dzagoev, Remy and Srna this summer. There are other guys. Willian (we tried, he chose to stay), Affelay (he's on loan). The list really is not that long and there really aren't that many wingers better than Lennon who could be had by Spurs. When Lennon uses his pace, the crowd does build with anticipation. Sometimes you have to give credit where due. Mancini effectively removed our wingers from the game. Well done. IMO, AVB used Dempsey to minimize the push and pace of Toure. Well done. We just let in two and they let in one. The fact Hart made a mistake was something we needed to punish but we did not have anyone between the sticks that was capable of a big save. Hart's save on Bale was very good indeed. There's the three points instead of the draw which would have been the result if Friedel had been in net for both teams. COYS
peterballb
"IMO, AVB used Dempsey to minimize the push and pace of Toure" That may have been HALF the job, which he did ok, but if that was all he was asked to do, we might as well have played Livermore there. Truth is, he was very poor when we had the ball, totally nonexistent.
Guyver
Peter - Friedel is not high profile enough to have such a clause in his contract. Friedel is paying becuse AVB has lost his ability to be ruthless or even worse AVB thinks Friedel s better than Lloris
MrSpurs
Guyver, I think you are misunderstanding what is being said about Friedel. It's not blame. No more than one can "blame" Defoe for being selfish and needing 47 attempts at goal to score 5. It's just the way they are. The blame is really on AVB, if you want to call it that. If you can tell me that Cech or Hart would not have save one or both of our goals against, then fine. Friedel is as good as they are. I have seen saves this year by the aforementioned keepers that would have saved every one of the goals against from open play, save the Chelsea tap-in. The toughest shot Friedel has faced all year was the Ba goal, and that was saveable. Hart made three such saves in one CL game. Also gave up a goal he no doubt wanted back but he kept his side in a game they were thoroughly outplayed (RM). This is what top keepers do. Friedel is not a top keeper and will not become one. Defoe is not a top striker. He's a good striker who will score .60 goals for every 90 minutes on the pitch. In a 4-4-2, that's fine. It's not enough if he is the lone striker. It's not blame. This is what they are and these are their shortcomings. I believe Gomes could have gotten to both of those balls. COYS
peterballb
MrSpurs, I have read that these contracts are quite common with Harry signings. I don't have the contract in front of me, but I know it was reported last season at a couple of points. Crouch had one, and he is not exactly a "high profile" player. COYS
peterballb
BigC - Harry Redknapps net spend during his time at Spurs was £8.9M.
MrSpurs
#Taxiformaicon. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Ref spared your blushes today, big time!
fifthcolumnblue
Peter - Contract negoication is Daniel Levy I cant see the board of Tottenham letting Harry Redknapp dicated terms. Anyway forget Redknapp my conern is that we losng to team we shouldn't be and that is down to AVB.
MrSpurs
Guyver, this is the problem when you man mark. You take yourself out of the game. It's what Defoe should have done in the last third of the ManU game. Taken himself out of the game (he did nothing anyway) and marked Scholes out of the game instead of allowing him to dictate the attacks. I don't recall hearing Dempsey's name in the first 25 minutes of the game. But then, I don't recall Toure having any effect either. If that was the tactic (it's how I saw it), it was well played. I don't believe Defoe or Sigurdsson are smart enough on the pitch to pull that off. If that was the goal, right player for the right job. Then again, perhaps it was a matter of good fortune with a player just having a run about. COYS
peterballb
Personally happy to give AVB time to succeed, but have to admit would be nice to see Lloris given a proper chance and opportunity to gain full confidence between the sticks. Also would like to see an Ade/Defoe partnership given more of a chance simply because when we have gone 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 we have looked a lot more dangerous and attacking and the simple fact is Defoe has been in form and Ade has had two good performances back to back now! Demps and Siggy are yet to put in one decent performance between them and have had quite a few opportunties to be fair.
El Jefe
Look, we lost to a team that cost 4 or 5 times what our team did and who are paid 4 or 5 times what our team are played. We were away, had four starters out of the lineup, and but for 2 saves could have nicked the points. It was not 5-1. We were in this and had a point up to the last few minutes. We brought on Defoe, who had no effect. They brought on Dzecko who scored the winning goal. COYS
peterballb
Peter Demps over Siggy yes, but personally for now would go Ade/Defoe. Ultimately Defoe needs replacing as does Lennon especially if we have title aspirations but for the time being we need to get the best out of what we have and I think atm its got to be Ade and Defoe up front with Demps the relief. Ade as has always shown likes to come deep and get involved in the make-up play, that means we need Defoe to get on the end of things to do what he did against Maribor - brilliant hat-trick!
El Jefe
MrSpurs, losing to teams we should be beating is what we have done for years. Let's wait until AVB actually has his best players to choose from and let's see what he does. Those games have, this season, been at home, and the unfair expectations and dislike for AVB has a great deal to do with the atmosphere at the Lane. People liked Jol. They supported him. They hated Ramos, and gave him no credit. They liked Harry and gave him the benefit of the doubt even in the face of clear facts. AVB is not a fan favourite and has had a whole contingent of Spurs fans wanting him to fail even before he got the job. Go back. Read the posts from the summer. Good, entertaining reading there. Not fair, but then, what does that matter. On the contracts, Crouch had one. That was widely reported as he continued to feature even when scoring once in 21. COYS
peterballb
Peter, Defoe came on for something like 5 mins, I think Dzeko had atleast 15-20 mins so not really fair comparison tbh! Also City were on top and creating, Defoe was feeding off scraps - had Demps provided a better ball at the end, Defoe might have been able to pull off a decent whack! I take your point that Toure did not really influence the game but to expect our hole player to just do defensive duties if that be the case is simply not good enough and as someone questioned above what about when we had the ball - what was he doing? Not good enough no matter how much you defend him!
El Jefe
I understand whats being said about Friedel Peter, but im looking at this article and probably about 2/3 of it is about how **** Friedel is, which is typical on match day threads UNLESS Lloris is playing, where the anti Friedel posts are replaced by excuses for why Lloris made that blunder. The way people go on, you'd think all we need to do is start Lloris and all our problems will go away. imo he'd make little difference, not because he isnt a better GK, he is, but because the issues in other areas of the squad far outweigh the impact Friedel is having, that's why I say the focus or "blame" on Friedel is disproportionate to the effect he is having on our results. Lloris didnt make much difference against Norwich reserves or Panathinaikos, so why would he against the premiership champions..
Guyver
El Jefe, if someone were meeting Lennon's crosses and burying them, Lennon would be seen as brilliant. I merely said that Defoe and Sigurdsson do not have what it takes to man mark a player out of the game the quality of Toure. Dempsey does. I still would rather Dempsey up top of Adebayor and see how that goes before I determine whether Defoe at .6 per 90 minutes is the best we have. Dempsey is very much aware of what's going on around him and it's why he managed 17 last season. He's slow as molasses in January, but somehow gets there. As for Sigurdsson, I am not going to judge him playing behind Defoe because much better players than he have had no success with Defoe so I'll wait until he's out there with Adebayor and see how that goes. His set piece delivery is very good. So was Hudd's today. COYS
peterballb
peterballb, re Demps, the way I saw it, was that Dempsey was simply asked to get back into midfield when we didnt have the ball, he was certainly not tracking Toure all over the pitch. City players were doing the same to Thudd and Sandro, doesnt mean you have to be totally ineffective when you have the ball.
Guyver
I saw West Ham out play City, yes the wet spam that sit above us in the table, and they we're unlucky to lose. How many of their players would make even our 'injury ravaged' team?....make no mistake City are not firing at the moment now was a good time to play them, yet another missed opportunity...
shedboy2
Mcguyver - thank you as nobody has acknowledged the fact that Ade was partly at fault for the 1st goal not to mention the joker who did not put the ball out of play or play a back pass to Friedel to clear (still not sure who it was) and then Caulker for the 2nd aswell. Ade should have passed much earlier than he did instead of only passing once City had regained position by running across the middle from side to side and then for the 2nd Cualker did not track his man, suicidal defending and any other would rightfully have been heavily criticised! These kinds of mistakes need addressing before even moving onto the possible GK errors! Ade sometimes holds onto the ball way too much instead of playing the pass that is on and that is a bit annoying, do not know if anyone else has noticed this. As for Caulker I guess he was tired and looking for an offside that was never there, shame as apart from that had a good game and same could be said of Ade aswell.
El Jefe
Hot Spur made a very good point, it gets quoted, we should buy this player, could have had that player, thing is we don't have those options, players come, players go. Everything is within hindsight that's quoted after the game, on what we have all just seen, goals come from making the right player changes, goals get conceeded from player changes, most teams in this league play the same way, move forward and pass it back, and back, then move forward and then pass it back, the difference comes from class players who can un-lock teams, we don't have that many who can, but most teams are the same, when friedel get the ball, he hardly ever clears the half way line, and it just becomes another 50/50 ball, most of which come back at us, that's not always his fault, if no single player challenges for the ball, to many second rate players, until we get everyone back, AVB still has no idea what his best starting X1 is yet, due to injuries, Kaboul, BAE, Parker, Dembele, still missing, all would start if fit, IMO, But it's not down to me. I said this before, just take every win as a bonus, don't ask for to much from this team at present. we are not going to win anything, until we have players in the jigsaw AVB wants, who can perform at a higher standard. Time will tell, most likely a lifetime.
spu 4 life
anyone else notice how the defenders knocked it into row z rather than pass back to Brad...
shedboy2
Guyver, every keeper makes mistakes. Perhaps next time Naughton puts it on to his left foot and not on to his right. That said, we won the game and I did not see any panic on his part or on the part of the defenders. Hart made a meal of the Caulker header, but did what one expects of a top keeper. Made the save that need to be made. It's the job. It's all glory or nothing. Just like striker. Their mistakes or successes are amplified but that's because if you don't score you can't win and if you concede you usually don't win. We need a striker to start scoring for fun and we need a keeper to steal us games. That is not Defoe and is not Friedel. If that's the best we have (I don't believe so but for argument's sake let's say it is), then in January we need to buy a keeper that can steal games and a striker that can play up top alone. COYS
peterballb
spu 4 life- AVB has already had 1 transfer window...if he didn't get the players he wants why did he sanction the buys? BTW no manager gets all the players he wants...the best managers manage!
shedboy2
Peter we cannot carry players because they might produce a few good set-pieces (Siggy), perhaps Stoke can a la Rory Delap etc but we are different atleast I hope we are. That said I have not given up hope on Demps, but atm would prefer to see him sat on the bench with Ade in the hole and Defoe up top. Eventually we have to aspire higher than Defoe but for now he is the best finisher we have and also in form! As for Lennon - what crosses - it is a well known fact that he lacks a top delivery or a decent amount of goals. Decent/good player but again ultimately we need better but thats another story all together.
El Jefe
the best thing we could do in january is sell defoe while he is "hot" and capable of fetching a decent price and cough up the 22-25 million to bring in leandro damiao
Guernman
Dempsey is not a middle of the pitch MF. He is a narrow winger or an up top striker. AVB has not yet used him in that fashion. He has tried him in place of Bale (nowhere near quick enough) and in behind Defoe or today Adebayor. He is not VDV and VDV was useless with Defoe in front of him. I believe his job was to clog up the MF behind Adebayor today. I don't think there was any focus on this game tactics to have him going forward. Until Aguero's goal, it all looked pretty solid. COYS
peterballb
This showed the difference between a team that can afford to have Dzeko and Garcia on the bench with Balotelli not even named and a team that has to balance it's own books.

Well done 5thcolumnblue, come back when you can best us on level terms, before someone bought you a great team, you were a $hit club and one day you'll be $hit again, along with €hel$ea.
Tottenham Hotcore
Today we were terrible, I lost count of how many passes were misplaced, particularly to Lennon do to moan about him today would be harsh, at least 5 balls were played behind him or way too far in front..
Tottenham Hotcore
Peter - Im not anti AVB I just expected more from a man who is suppose to be a master tactician.
MrSpurs
Although I said at the start of the season did not think we were good enough for top 4, seeing Arse have another poor start means aspirations rise, not to mention beating Utd all be it with a large slice of luck. Have to get back to the thinking that this is a transitional season and not to expect too much as spu has rightly stated, take each win as a bonus!
El Jefe
El Jefe, that's fair, but then I don't think Sigurdsson was bought to be one of our best XI. He is essentially the Kranjcar replacement and he can do a job as such. Best XI as I see it is Lloris, Naughton or Walker, 2 of Kaboul, Vertonghen, Caulker, 2 of Dembele, Parker, Sandro, Hudd, Bale, Lennon, Ade and either Defoe or Dempsey. There are certainly places that can be strengthened, but this really does allow for a pretty decent XI. Thing is, AVB has never been able to look at those players and choose an XI. He hasn't yet had that opportunity. When he does, let's see what he does and who performs and in what positions. Until then you can only pick who is available. We lost 2-1 away to the reigning PL champs. Hardly cause for riots at WHL. COYS
peterballb
Losing today was disappointing but not unexpected, it is the West Brom, Norwich and Wigan results which cause real concern.
MrSpurs
Peter.... Totteham 0-1 Wigan - thats cause for a riot.
MrSpurs
thfc1882whl, you can play Defoe for evey minute if you wish. The stat will likely remain the same. The problem is, when you play with one striker, as we would be doing, he needs to score more than the 23 goals that that would give. Our strikers need to be netting about 40. It's not good enough. The rest of our team may well score 1 goal a game but we are conceding more than a goal a game as well. Either we need clean sheets or we need strikers to start scoring for fun. A combination will be better. Defoe is a 4-4-2 striker. COYS
peterballb
Peter very much agree with that last post - lets judge AVB when he has a full squad to pick from and a decent run of doing so! Even though City might not be playing to their best, players like Silva only need a moment of their undoubted brilliance to change a game on its head a la the pass to Dzeko! I have blamed Caulker for that goal and rightly so IMO but with a bit of hindsight he was great all game and perhaps deserves to be forgiven for making a tired mistake at the end! We faced Aguero, Tevez and Dzeko today all world class and who would walk into our team and most others so not disgraced especially with so many 1st teamers missing and certainly as you say no cause for riots at WHL!
El Jefe
MrSpurs, not cause for riot but, along with Norwich, some of the worst football I have ever seen a Spurs side play. If only the cross had been tipped over the bar and some of the crosses in the first half been buried, then perhaps the results would have been different even with poor performances. City were poor today but managed to win. ManU do it all the time. We are not there yet. COYS
peterballb
"Dempsey is not a middle of the pitch MF. He is a narrow winger or an up top striker" peter, all season you've been saying Ade up top with Dempsey just behind (as most of us have said) and now because of Dempsey's poor performances, you say he can't play behind the front man anymore? I think you just have to accept he isnt playing well for us, none of your textual gymnastics will change that.
Guyver
El Jefe, all players make mistakes. Caulker has been fabulous. He and Vertonghen would be my starting CB's if we had a healthy squad. COYS
peterballb
Again to be a bit fair didn't Wigan do it to the likes of Utd, City and Arse last season aswell?! Cannot wait to get all our players back fit. Lloris, Walker/Naughton, Kaboul/Caulker, Verts, BAE, Lennon, Sandro/Parker, Dembele, Bale, Ade and Defoe/Demps. I want to see AVB pick a team from a consistently fit squad and see what happens. Also has to be said injuries are a part of the game but cruel to be a new manager with such hype and expectation and to lose so many 1st teamers so early on! No easy ride for AVB on any front!
El Jefe
Guyver, no I haven't. I have said Dempsey in front of Adebayor. If it's to be Adebayor up top, it would be Sigurdsson behind him, if I were choosing. Adebayor has to be the target with his back to the net. Sigurdsson is much better working in and out with Bale or Lennon than Dempsey. Dempsey is a Johnny on the spot type player. Right place at the right time. He'll score goals. Rarely will they be pretty. Sigurdsson has one heck of a shot and would be able to use it coming from behind Adebayor. Does not suit Defoe or Dempsey. VDV used to get so much room to run in to because of the players Adebayor would pull to him. You don't need pace, but you do need a cracking shot and some creativity. That for me would be Sigurdsson. Not the same, but he does have it in him. So Adebayor the target with either Dempsey or Defoe in front or Sigurdsson just behind. COYS
peterballb
Think McGuyver might have you there a bit Pete, many including myself were banging on about Ade up top with Demps playing in the hole but also to be fair it was their first proper start together today and one of the toughest places to do it! Going on what I have seen and remembering finally how much Ade loves to drop deep and dictate play, we need someone else ultimately up there to score more goals and atm Defoe appears to be that man! Taking everything into consideration think a top striker would not go amiss in the next window.
El Jefe
dempsey and siggy were top dogs for there clubs last year just as caulker was, berba wasnt even selected for man utd, get real guys, pienaar was shocking for us but went on loan an everton best player.
123spurs
Pete like the fact that when defending Caulker does not over complicate, likes to keep it simple, percentages! Also good on the ball when coming forwards, has everything to be a top, top CB so hopefully between him, Kaboul and Verts we have CB tied up for a good few years!
El Jefe
just to show how fickle and ludicrous our perception of the team performance is, if we'd not conceded after 87 mins everyone here would be praising the team for showing character and grinding out a good result against a bigname team who are current champions and on their home ground..... the gameplan was to defend a winning or drawn situation and we nearly achieved it. had they gone ahead sooner we may well have scored again cos we then had to.... for 98% of the game we were successful in our gameplan to defend at least 1pt..
Viyyash-Ramosh
is lloris made the saves brad done today it would be " hugo " kept us in the game
123spurs
Ok Peter, I thought you had made that claim for some reason. Would make the decision to sell VDV an even poorer one though. Clearly AVB and Dempsey himself believe's he can play just behind the striker, for good reason too, as throughout his career, Dempsey has played as a central AM much more than he has played the striker role.
Guyver
I think Dempsey started as a striker once last season, when Fulham sold Zamora but didnt sign his replacement pogrebnyak in time for the following game. He mostly played on the left or behind the striker.
Guyver
Ade is probably our best player along with Bale. We need to probably play one of Sigg or Carroll to give us vertical penetration with passing. Dempsey is a good as an inside forward, not a No.10.
Tactically Challenge
I think a lot is made of tactics and timely substitutions but for me the issue today was simply talent. The truth is our guys aren't really that good technically. When you see Walker, Gallas, Sandro, and Lennon on the right side 'trying' to play football you can predict very bad things are going to happen. In January it is absolutely paramount we get 'proper' players who are solid on the ball a la Dembele who don't panic in massive games like today. The squad we have lacks big game temperament and nothing AVB could have done would change that.
BlackStar Spur
woodyn17 We've been doing that since I can remember, it's not exactly a new phenomena with us. And Gomes in for the Arsenal game. Just a mad and crazy idea.
chrishove123
OX can you please STOP with putting the opposition colours up at the top of the page. Haven't you noticed yet that we ALWAYS lose when you do that.
chrishove123
Anyone questioning was Friedel at fault for either goal? Well yes, he was still trying to get down for the first goal when Dzeko fired the winner over his head. His reaction time is dreadful, if he's a true football fan then he'd hang up his gloves.
yiddyboy
We are in a transition period like it or not. This season, even with our *****e results and playing really poor, we are still above le scum. We have only played well once, against manure. He needs more time in charge and another transfer window. Still wonder why we have no number 9 shirt!!!!
woodyn17
We seem to be obsessed with 3 factors on here lately, those being the limitations of Jermaine Defoe, what a poor keeper Friedel is, and injuries. None of these are the reason why we are starting our gradual slide down the league, after being in a false position previously, having played the bottom 6 in our first 10 games, and making hard work of some of them. While we content ourselves with these purile subjects, we are either failing to, or refusing to, face up to the real situation. The truth is we are a club who decided having finished in the top 5 in the PL for 3 previous seasons, and reached the last 8 of the CL, and being lauded by almost every pundit to be the best team to watch in the PL , decided to wrap up plan A, and start again. The rights and wrongs of the sacking of HR are irrelevent, but the over riding need was to carry on where he left off, and at least maintain our position. So first of all we replace him with a bloke with a dodgy CV in England, sell 2 of the 4 or 5 real recognised quality players we had, and a number of our back up players as well, failing to adequately replace any of them, banked a healthy profit in the window again, and started the season with a much depleted squad, and then suffered injuries, which could have previously been coped with. So we have engaged a computor geek of a coach, with a mentality as far from the Spurs tradition as it is possible to get, who makes ludicrous selections, and substitions, based on an obsession with "rigid shape", regementation, and trying to defend leads, with a marked reluctance to play attacking football even at home. These factors added to our esteemed chairman's marked reluctance to invest in any real quality players, to replace those sold, means that rather than in transition, it is more accurate to say we are in deterioration. We are returning to our chairman's comfort zone, mid table mediocrity, where running the club, and managing it's limited aspirations, becomes far cheaper.
Frank
Blaming Friedel, Walker or any other single player is missing the point because our overall performances have been poor. Friedel's mistake against Wigan should have meant we won 4-1 rather than 4-0.
MrSpurs
Frank - True. The blame is definately on the board for not investing when we were on the edge of something truely special imo... instead Levy did not back Harry Redknapp we lost momentum, we lost Modric, we didnt replace him and now AVB is suffering (partially) as a result. The club had its opportunity to push on and dithered. Now we're all looking at the next transfer window hoping we sign players that will get us to where we were months ago!!
MrSpurs
"Think McGuyver might have you there a bit Pete, many including myself were banging on about Ade up top with Demps playing in the hole" lol im still pretty certain Peter was saying Demps behind Ade was ideal, as I and most others were, but for some reason Peter seems willing to contradict himself to excuse what was a poor performance from Dempsey today.
Guyver
MRspurs, thats all well in good, but the stupid individual errors is costing us points, walker should be dropped.
123spurs
woodyn- 'Transition period?'. At fifty one years and counting that's some period. And I don't judge our results by some fricking interloper from south of the river. Anyhoo, on a positive front I did a 'kick racism out' special with one bookie, and came up trumps with Terry AND Suarez scoring today. Get in. No, (serious face) I feel dreadful.
lordjohnny
west ham are doing ok for a team who got promoted, they beat newcastle we failed up there, liverpool who are crap get a draw away to chelsea. we fail at home.
123spurs
8th? I may not be to far off from my prediction as long as we keep AVB. Today was embarrassing performance.
RagingSpur
The most worrying aspect about today is in midfield. Were there was once Modric and VDV and their excellent posession ability - There is now Huddlestone and Dempsey who are lower half of the league standard. Luka or VDV could turn, spin and give it and other sides stuggled to get the ball. Today our midfield might as well not be there, the ball just went over there heads. Only Ade looked a threat. Sandro was a beast but we can't rely on him to create its not his game. Really, really worried because that was a dreadful performance. City were there for the taking today but we were absolute tug
HuddersfieldYiddo
lordjonny - Transition period for AVB and SPurs under him. I actually feel for AVB as he has inherited a team that has had it's two most influential players sold, not been properly backed in the transfer market, had a string of injuries to key players (Benni, Parker, Kaboul, Ade, Dembele), and has a fickle crowd that is turning on him after 11 games. We are 3 points off 4th, we were never going to finish third with Chelsea's spending. We are ABOVE arsenal and that is with playing very poor football at present. This is a time to back the team not turn on them like some school ground kids. If we beat Arsenal i bet my bottom dollar that you will be shouting how great we are, just like after the Manure game!! HR is gone - get over it. Friedel is in goal - get over it. COYS!!!
woodyn17
Carrol wouldn't have made a difference and quit comparing the kid to Modric because you will be highly disappointed once you see him play and not pull the strings in the same way. It's far different playing vs Maribor and Hearts rather than any top team in the top league. He isn't ready to be a star and while he may be competition to Hudd that isn't much because Hudd is probably one of the weakest overall football midfielders in all the top leagues. Give Carrol time and he will come good but don't start comparing him to someone who is way out of his league.
RagingSpur
Our team simply isn't good enough. Clint Dempsey, Huddlestone.....these are players that would struggle to get into Stoke's starting XI. Selling VDV a week after Modric was sheer and utter madness. Surely we have to play two upfront from now on - or give Siggy a run because at least there looks to be a good player in there who actually takes shots.
HuddersfieldYiddo
The squad is in need of investment for sure. It's just that in order to see that level of investment of about 50-80 million the board are going to have to change their cheap ways and unfortunately for us they are pretty set in those ways. I always say that Arsenal had something like the best team in the world (England at least) before real serious talk of their stadium began and it feels like where we are concerned we are running before we can walk. If the board commit to improving the playing staff properly and intelligently the stadium will build itself imo.
BlackStar Spur
Was Siggy injured today?
woodyn17
Yeah OK woodyn, I'll defer to your greater knowledge and of course loyalty etc etc. Aren't you going to congratulate me on my Clark Carlisle double?
lordjohnny
Being above Arsenal means nothing as they are shocking. I just look throughout our whole team and see glaring weaknesses. Gallas is all over the place, Walker a liability, no creativity or skill in midfield, im very worried. Stop Bale and Lennon and you stop Spurs as City did today.
HuddersfieldYiddo
I'd rather Siggy than Dempsey!!!! Although it's a bit like prefering Constipation to the trots
HuddersfieldYiddo
lordjonny - Wasn't a dig at your footballing knowledge or loyalty mate. Just get fecked off when a bloke isn't given a fair crack of the whip. Think if there is any blame it lies on the doorstep of a certain Mr Levy and Enic.!!!
woodyn17
Sadly i think AVB has to go big in January if we are to be a top side again. Moutinho and a Willian/Zaha type because we're clearly not as good as we were 12 months ago.
HuddersfieldYiddo
BC - LOL!
El Jefe
thfc - LOL aswell!
El Jefe
HuddersfieldYiddo - Our most creative player is inured, followed by Parker who runs and breaks up play tirelessly. Take Toure and Silva out of city and you wouldn't have had the same result today.
woodyn17
we are ****
Cape Town Spurs
which was supposed to read $h!t€
Cape Town Spurs
wood - Bale was actually playing - he is our most creative player but I assume you are talking about Dembele who is still a huge miss!
El Jefe
why would you feel sorry for AVB...he accepted the job, he had a transfer window to work with....we made signings, who said he didn't want any of them?? all this talk of dempsey behind or in front of Ade is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic....dempsey isn't what we needed, now we're trying to shoe horn him in....so why did we buy him? who wanted him? who wanted Gylfi? who wanted Lloris?...something smells off at the lane and it ain't the players....
shedboy2
FFS...West Ham are above us! where are all their top players? some of the decisions are Ramon-esque, football is a simple game complicated by idiots....
shedboy2
I will watch the Real game tonight. Modric has looked average in their team. I don't know what to make of it yet.
logos8
If it carries on like this the boo's will be deafening against the Spammers....two MUST win games coming up in the PL....no pressure there then AVB.
shedboy2
RagingSpur I agree and disagree. I for one see similarities between Carroll and Modric and do compare but on the other hand I also accept he is not at that level YET.

he has to be nurtured even Modric had to be nurtured when he arrived at the lane and Carroll is younger and less experienced but he has the potential to be another Modric type player.

I don't think he would have made much difference today as it is too soon but then again Hudd is not brilliant either. All AVB can do is keep playing Carroll in Europa and cup matches and see how he progresses but he isn't the answer to our PRESENT problem YET.

With no creative midfielder or a midfielder who can keep the ball moving and retain possession we are going to continue to struggle in the middle. even with Parker coming back and Dembele I don't think we are strong enough. Parker will play Sandro role and Dembele is not a Modric however he is better than Hudd. We need a special player like Modric as first choice to play with sandro and parker and Dembele to cover and give competition.

carroll hopefully will continue to progress and in two seasons be pushing for a starting place.

We have the same problem on the wings and up front. We need someone who can push Lennon and give Bale a run for his money or at least give him a rest and we need another striker to compete

We are also weak at RB and LB. Already we are having to play Vertonghen out of position so Naughton cannot be seen as ready to cover BAE or push Walker as Walker has been poor and Naughton hasn't been given a chance at RB.

Until we get adequate cover for these vital positions we are not going to have a proper challenge and we will struggle with top 4.

Siggy has disappointed me and may well be a 2nd season player, a player that needs time to settle but he may also be a flop. Dempsey I think is a flop and will not recover he is just not showing signs of being good enough but you never know he may be another player that needs a season behind him but my gut feeling is that he will be a flop.

The GK is covered once AVB sorts out NO 1 unless Lloris really doesn't adjust to PL but sufrely that will not happen once he gets regular games.

We should have used Krancjar, Corluka more and they may have stayed and they would be better than we have now and we shouldn't have sold VDV but money talks.

We needed a striker last season as Pav didn't settle and yet we haven't got one again unless Levy call Dempsey a striker but I have seen no signs of him being a quality striker.

We are not as good as last season but then we sold two top class players and two very good players and brought in second hand players. The only signing that is showing class is Vertonghen and hopefully Lloris will do the same.

Where the blames lies I don't know. Is it Levy or is it that we really couldn't attract the players AVB wanted. Only time will tell but if we do not strengthen in jan we will not get top 4 no matter how poor Arsenal are at the moment they will turn it around.
thfan
I agree woodyn we mised Dembele badly today. I think we need someone else in as well though
HuddersfieldYiddo
the French press are saying Lloris could go as early as January...I'd sooner lose AVB than not have a keeper....anyone got Laurent Blanc's number? perhaps he can carry our 5 year plan forward??
shedboy2
With the exception of the Man Utd game it's been a disappointing start to the season considering we've played some of the more easier games.
MrSpurs
I am afraid the adage of one man is not bigger than the club is not true at Spurs. Daniel Levy has made a succession of bad decisions starting with the appointment of santini who walked out god knows what that cost us! luckily he gets jol who proved to be a good manager that produced a side that progressed under his management, so much so that we would have finished in the top four but for food poisoning at west ham then fifth the following year and he gets sacked because of Levy's meddling instead of supporting the manager. He spends another load of millions getting Juande Ramos what a pile of cack he was and then he does exactly the same with harry redknapp and gets one of the worst managers i can remember at tottenham. Todays performance was dire and we got what we deserved i am afraid to say!! I supported tottenham because of the style of play they were known for and under redknapp you could tell most players were happy. i do not see that with AVB , He has already proved he cannot be trusted with VDV and Dawson and he makes me cringe everytime i hears his poxy interviews.. damn cretin and we are in for a really tough year. I am hoping that we get bought so Levy goes or that Joe Lewis tells levy that he has had his chance and he is NOT BIGGER TH
ginola29
manchester should not of lost at home to spurs who they have not beatin in years at old traff, but bc says we should of beatin wigan what a moran he is. bc team talk they have more money then us they are above us it dont matter if we loose, yu can stil have ur jelly an ice cream even though u lost. bc who do u want instead of gallas daws came on today an cost us goal by ball watching, ur in a fantasy land kid
123spurs
Let's be honest AVB is out of his depth big time. I don't think he has enough experience to manage Tottenham. Get Arry back, teams were scared of us when we had him.
Henry Baker Brown
Thfc - yeah I agree with you Man U was the result not the performance and Lazio was the opposite.
MrSpurs
123 it was Caulker who cost us that goal not Daws, Caulker did not go with Dzeko in the first place, Daws was trying to cover Caulker's mistake!
El Jefe
we have a better squad on paper then everton west ham an west brom an newcastle, but u got to earn it.we area a soft touch, simple as. we can have all ball players but we are not ruthless enough. we cant defend a lead ffs, lets put it this way.if i was manager....if ur winning with 15 min to go and u dont win = no bonus. we are a laughing stock and thank god i aint living in london. do we want to be no1 in london or not.
123spurs
My oh my, never felt so confused by Spurs performances.... I am so willing AVB to succeed but the city performance capped a run of games which have lacked passion and cohesion. The great tactician is not really appearing , I am finding myself question him more than HR! Why Gallas & Dempsey and Walker needs to be shown competition. ADE can and should play with Defoe...Want to keep the faith but signs are reminding me of mid table mediocrity before Harry took over???
SpurON
The players looked happy Redknapp, yeah too right! Go and enjoy yourselves lads and don't worry about practising set pieces, how boring is that! The team picked itself, Friedel, Ekotto, Chorluka, Kaboul, King, Modric, Parker, Bale, Lennon, VDV, Adebayor. Till the team knackerd itself, two seasons running. I could have managed that team.
ItalianYiddo
caulker was left side of def and daws was right side it went over daws head, if im wrong i say sorry. also our subs dont seem upto make the diff an see it out
123spurs
AVB was never the right man for the job because his credentials were tested at Chelsea where he had a owner who would invest in the team 100 times more than Levy would ever do so. He failed at Chelsea and now he is once again failing at our club as well. I predicted 8th place and whether or not we lost Modric this team isn't as bad as we are playing and it's all down to coaching.
RagingSpur
if u have a lead u fight an defend as if ur life depended on it bt no not us, we gift wrap them ******** goals. not accepatble, i have no problem dying or loosing if we try. but we aint doing that.
123spurs
AVB maybe out of his depth but with the benefit of hindsight what would you have done different? Get a grip, we narrowely lost away to the champions with a depleted squad.
ItalianYiddo
thfan, if you want a realistic outlook on Carrol it will probably be that he never gets close to the class of Modric. He has potential but he isn't ready to be relied upon in a team who wants to play at a high level. Modric came in and he took this team to another level and there are maybe less then a dozen players with Modric ability in the world in midfield. Carrol will probably never get that but I wish him the best. Potential seems to fail 99% of the team as you can see in some of our recent players Lennon never filled out, Bale stalled on progression after his 1st great season he has gone sideways and backwards, Walker has only got worse...ect It's a cruel world for young players who usually never reach the tag of being the new/next _____.
RagingSpur
arsenal lost more key players then us over the years yet they do a job but us, it like walking in winter wonderland
123spurs
123 from what I saw it went over Daws head yes but Dzeko ran from left to right and Caulker failed to follow, had he followed almost certainly no goal - very poor marking/defending IMHO!
El Jefe
Italian, you can make all the excuses you want of who we played but the other week we were lucky to simply only lose 1-0 to Wigan. AVB has hardly been a tactician of any kind while he has been at WHL. I have not seen to much change in his style outside of Maribor where we played a 442 to finally win a game in Europa. We have been awful at home this year and slightly better on the road but the 4231 with the exact same approach to our attack each game has hardly been clever. We are predictable, slow, and most of all ineffective at home. You can blame it on not having Modric but we are not sitting here losing to Madrid week in and out we are dropping games to bottom of the table teams and weak Europa sides. It may take some time but AVB from Day 1 to Today has not for the slightest second turned my head to think he has changed this team for the better in any way. We don't need Modric to beat Wigan, West Brom, Norwich, ect! A tactician should be able to find ways to beat these teams but like we saw with him at Chelsea he had same issue and now we have same exact issue. The biggest issue of sacking a coach is to get one who can solve the issues you had and improve this team and AVB hasn't done that.
RagingSpur
That's because Arsenal have a good coach that can spot talent outside Match of the Day
ItalianYiddo
Thats very true 123, Arse have lost more quality players in 1 window than we have lost in years. Carrick, Berbs, Modders, King and VDV. Arse have lost teamful of players and still manage to get CL season in, season out!
El Jefe
Italian - thats a bit harsh. AVB wanted the likes of Willian and Moutinho, quality players but perhaps clubs knowing we had the Modders' money put their prices up and we were unable to get them, well that Levy always wanting the bargain of the century in every deal!
El Jefe
well that AND Levy
El Jefe
thfc, the teams nullified themselves because of the respective tactics employed. I am pretty sure that had we played Ade and Defoe up front City would have looked a lot better and we would got battered. At home against most team I think Ade and Defoe would be a good choice, away to the champions, suicide. COYS
ItalianYiddo
We paid around £15m for Demps and Siggy, Arse paid little more than that for Cazorla - I know who I would prefer! Again we paid the same for VDV as we did Siggy - someone has seriously f'd up and I doubt its AVB as just cannot see these two being his signings.
El Jefe
Arsenal usually replace quality with quality, we usually take ages to replace our star players.
Guyver
Dembele was a great signing, but with a bit of hindsight perhaps we got the wrong attacker from Fulham in Demps, should have been Ruiz!
El Jefe
Ruiz is a bit like Kranc, not the quickest, but technically very good and very strong on the ball.
Guyver
ItalianYiddo- you could have managed the team last year? well I reckon I could manage it this year...better than AVB at any rate...when thjey brought on Maicon they pushed Yaya further forward...I would have taken Dempsey off and put Defoe on....if Walker was injured I'd have put Naughton on in his place....and my keeper would be Lloris and Brad wouldn't cause a fuss....etc etc....it's not hindsight just common bloody sense....
shedboy2
I think is back to the old problem of not having a good scouting system. How many of us were aware of Modric and Berbatov? How many of us we aware of Dembele, Cabaye and half the Newcastle team?
ItalianYiddo
It's very much hindsight shedboy, because we were close to getting a point and it would have been considered a great result. And Defoe for Dempsey would have not helped the cause.
ItalianYiddo
ItalianYiddo- I would say there were a lot on here were aware of Cabaye, Ben arfa and Cisse...they were mooted long ago but I thought AVB had detailed scouting notes and compiled logs on players....yet he doesn't even seem to know the how the players he has work best....still we'll have a the AVB spin brigade on here tomorrow telling us black is white and that the emperor has new clothes....
shedboy2
thfc, I have decided that I am joining your anti Levy club...where do I sign?
ItalianYiddo
shedboy, I don't think even you can claim that the present squad had anything to do with AVB. I gave Harry two season before deciding he was a poor coach, I think you should give him one season and some players of his choice in January before passing credible judgement.
ItalianYiddo
"thfc, the teams nullified themselves because of the respective tactics employed. I am pretty sure that had we played Ade and Defoe up front City would have looked a lot better and we would got battered. At home against most team I think Ade and Defoe would be a good choice, away to the champions, suicide"

Like when Harry brought on Defoe to partner Ade in the FA Cup against Chelsea last season and was heavily criticised for doing so. We of course went on to lose that game 5-1 and nobody said anything along the lines of "at least we didnt go down without a fight" nope Harry was an idiot, whats changed since then I wonder..To be fair, if Sandro and Dembele were in midfield id be more confident with Ade and Defoe playing together away to city.
Guyver
thfc, no wonder there is only two of you in your very selective club! It was three until Geoff Stern was expelled!!
ItalianYiddo
ItalianYiddo-perhaps I should give AVB more time but his decisions grate on me...most of all the Hugo situation. Is the squad all his?..no But then a squad is never all the managers picks...he's had 1 transfer window, you can argue if players were his choice or not, if there were funds or not but FACT is he's had a window, he has a pretty decent squad BUT he's failed to get them playing, there is just no performance...and for a supposed tactician not to counter Mancini's switch of tactics was baffling?....he just kept throwing on defenders....by that logic if he'd started with 11 defenders we wouldn't have lost....
shedboy2
whatever happened to Geoff Stern? I thought he had an axe to grind but perhaps, just perhaps he was right....do you take Amex?...;)
shedboy2
Wow thfc, that's brilliant, the only other thing I ever won was a raffle at a school fete and that's only because I bought all the tickets!! As I don't have the Club's handbook yet does the FO stand for Formidable Omnipotent?
ItalianYiddo
thfc1882whl Yeah Butland was one of the 'keepers I thought we should have grabbed, I was very impressed with his England performance and talking about him it looks like citeh are going for him again with a loanback deal. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/mancini-ready-to-make-january-move-1430199 I just wish people would stop going on about how selling VDV and Modders were bad moves, THEY WANTED TO GO. VDV cz his wife works in Germany and he wanted things to be easier family wise and Modders was only here still because he was FORCED to stay for his last season. If he had been forced to stay another season he would have done a Berba and we couldn't have played him, so we HAD to sell them both. Tell you what I'll come out of retirement and play instead of BF if he won't play Lloris. LOL
chrishove123
I think VDV would have been ok staying if we wanted to keep him, thats what he was saying while the rumors of him leaving were circulating. I think it was a business decision from Levy, an opportunity to make our money back on a 29 year old. notice we didnt try nearly as hard to keep him as we did Modric.
Guyver
Lets be honest, lets be FRANK, that was an awful performance that we were lucky enough to keep at 2-1.Playing safe was a disaster;we do not have the skills and dtermination to hold a lead.We have nothing on the bench to change the game; although Defoe should have come on earlier for the invisible and insipid Dempsey.Very depressed at our style of play and our ineffectivesness.Today was awful,embarrassing for the travelling fans and now we have Wet Spam above us.Mind boggling!
wentworth
Disappointed with the loss no doubt. However, remember that our squad is currently significantly weakened by injury.I'm more upset we lost to Wigan last week. Some good posts from my fellow Vital posters here. El Jefe!! in particular got some real good ones. I am not one to like to apportion blame, so I won't. Yes there are issues with players not turning up sometimes, yes AVB could do better perhaps, Lloris vs Friedel issues, Levy not getting better players and probably won't in January (Oh please let me be wrong). A bit of deja vu here but let's move on and think about the next game.. Arsenal this weekend.

On the bigger scale, we have Everton, WBA, West Ham, Arsenal and if you must include Liverpool all hovering around the same spots. So, 11 games in, I think most would agree that 4th would be a good result for us this year and imo Arsenal is our main treat because (no offense) I expect the other few to fade a little. lol, just realise that last 2 years, we faded too!! Have a great day to all....back to work :-)
Madaboutspurs
Imagine if the Thudd and Dawson moves went through, both played today but both could easily have been moved onto Stoke and QPR. Thudd especially has become a key 1st team player recently. Stating the obvious, but it doesnt seem much thought goes into our transfers..
Guyver
Our esteemed chairman got a bit carried away with the clearing of so called deadwood. I am glad Dawson was not sold and with the benefit of hindsight, we should have hung onto VDV.

Re. geoff stern, he really did not have anything to say on here except Levy and co. was crap, and that was like every single post he put up, in differing words.
Madaboutspurs
Levy definitely got too overexcited and trigger happy near the end. Trying to offload players without having replacements lined up... crazy.
Guyver
OMG we miss VDV, who cannot play a full 90 min game, or take a free kick or a corner kick,
123spurs
ya blame levy easy scape goat. we have players and signed players to match our ambition. what if fergie had our team, he would never let us play like we do now
123spurs
123, it's good to have options, especially when our newbies Siggy and Dempsey (whom I rate) have not hit the ground running. Also there is another small issue of me having a SPURS shirt with VDV's name at the back. lol. That'll teach me to print players' name behind our shirts.
Madaboutspurs
All you armchair premier league managers make me laugh. You make knee jerk assumptions, and criticise team selection and substitutions with the benefit of hindsight. Get out there in the dugout, make the team selections and the substitutions BEFORE the event and then see if you can do any better with the poor selection of players we have available. Half of our currently available players wouldn't even get on the bench at ManC, ManU, or Chelsea.
Hot_Spur
just casue a player is playing good for one team, doesnt mean same another ok BC
123spurs
demp an siggy we great great for there last clubs, ie we rem we bought danny murphy?
123spurs
how do u feel u about like loosing 1 game 2 games 3 games........... we have no determinitation desire fight till end,,,, undedogs can win. not if u dont believe u can ...and we cant.we are a soft touch
123spurs
walker is so bad id rather play with 10 men, he crap brainless cluess and english just like lennnon daws has all heart but ball watches.
123spurs
123spurs  WTF So, you are saying the fact that he is English automatically make him (rap. what you have written there about him is pretty much bordering on a racist comment so you had better watch what you are saying, especially in light of what is happening now and what has happened in the recent past. According to you all English players are (rap eh? The fact that your English isn't too good is no defence against what you have said.
chrishove123
Oh man, where to start? Okay, Peter, I respect you as a Spurs fan and you manage at stages to make your statistical analysis into quite elegant reading at times! Not easy to do, that. However, your consistent blaming of Friedel for every goal conceded and every loss is becoming an obsession. You keep referring to the Norwich and WBA games. Well, I seem to recall Brad keeping us in the Norwich game, and that goal he conceded against the Baggies was down to us needlessly shutting up shop when a goal up. The goals he conceded, in almost all those games have been due to a weakness in our midfield/forward. We are 11 games into the season, which is still too early to properly judge us because of new faces and injuries, plus the huge loss of Modric, and to a lesser extent VDV. So, what is the common denominator in our performances so far? We don't have a glue player, a guy that the ball sticks to, and that same guy who runs our midfield. Dembele may or may not be that guy, but as he's injured, we don't know right now. BUT, your analysis of Friedel today reeks of an unrelenting vendetta against him. First goal was a sweet finish. If that had been Ade, Bale or Verts, this place would have exploded in orgasmic platitudes. Second goal? Brad's fault? Seriously? Our midfield self destructed, and Dzecko smashed a 7 yard volley that Brad managed to get a hand to. If you think it's easy to save a shot at that speed from 7 yards, then maybe you should critique Hart's failure to save a far less powerful, header, from our own Caulker. If it had been twice the distance, I might think you had a point, but as it stands, he is your scapegoat (and so many others' one as well). And Brad was in goal last year, when we finished 4th, so your argument about Gomes getting us there on saves alone is one made with blinkers on, considering we finished in the same position with Brad between the sticks. You cannot lightly replace King, Younes, and Modric, and it's sad to see a great pro, who occupies the 18 yard box, being the focus of your obsessive analysis. You guys and many like you made up your minds about Dempsey after about 2 games (same way you did with Pienaar and many others who find themselves in the unfortunate position of not living up to Spurs' fans unrealistic expectations .. well done lads, for destroying this guy before he had a chance to settle in -- Note to Siggy, get out now before your career is ruined by the poison!). On a positive note: Sandro was immense today. Ambulance for Toure! Ade was great, but ran outta steam, and Friedel and Caulker deserve mentions too. Jan looked knackered! And without Dembele there, or a Modric type midfielder, Bale and Lennon are wasted. We could have done with a Defoe (guy's confidence is sky high) -- Ade partnership today. So many times lennon and Bale had possession with no forward options because Ade was dropping deep. Another positive, we were 3 minutes away from getting a point. No disgrace in losing at the home of the champs. Love my team ... COYS!
SpursEagle
I was a big proponent of keeping gentleman Brad Friedel as no 1 for a few weeks to ease Lloris in. I really don't know what's going on there anymore tbh. If it was up to me Lloris would start regularly now in the Prem. If there is such a thing as transition going on here then certainly we have to put Lloris in where it matters now. Don't know. I don't have all the facts obviously but the guy is French no 1 and he comes with huge reputation plus we paid big bucks for him. All this sitting around can't be that great for ones confidence. Again, I don't have all the facts I know. Just a bit bewildering to me.
Madaboutspurs
Okay Mad, so you really think a change of keeper would have made a difference today? How can you seriously think Brad was to blame for those goals? Lloris has not looked that convincing with us in his time so far, and I don't recall Brad throwing a ball out and making a chance for the opposition, or putting a young full-back, playing out of position under pressure by a needless pass. We lost today, and other days because we are so weak in MF at the moment, teams are dominating us. You think playing Lloris is gonna shore that up? Wake up man, and stop reading and believing the sh** you read in the red tops.
SpursEagle
Mad! Sorry, didn't mean to sound so harsh there. Things a bit hectic here, am waiting to drive my sister to the airport, and totally bemused by the Brad hate going on here, Sorry bro
SpursEagle
Hmm, my post was a bit random come to think about it. No, SpursEagle to the contrary in fact. I think Brad Friedel is a true gentleman of the sport and if it was not for us having Lloris, I would be all too happy to have him as no 1. And No, he was not the reason we lost. I have always been an unashamed admirer of peterbalb's post over the years but in recent months, I too feel that his dislike of Friedel is over the top. Sorry peter :-) So, SpursEagle, we are on the same page actually. It's all good.
Madaboutspurs
I know you are relatively new to VitalSpurs SpursEagle but your opinion/posts I find quite balanced. Keep 'em coming :-)
Madaboutspurs
BC, Mad - thanks for the praise - always nice to be acknowledged by fellow members but basically just calling it as I see it and trying to keep a level head and keep the expectation under control which as I said above is throbbing a bit given the fact that Arse are having another poor start and not meaning any disrespect to the other contenders but I see Arse as the main player for it. They can go on a run like last season and leave most contenders for 4th spot in their wake, one main difference though this season is they are missing RVP's crucial goal's and I hope that could be telling even if not for us then for someone else, would be great to see them drop out of CL spot and suffer the inevitable consequences! IF we can keep ourselves within touching distance of 4th in the next 2 months hard as it'll be, then hopefully come January Levy will loosen the purse strings and give AVB some of what he craves to give us a proper fighting chance of getting that 4th spot! Personally I would go immediately for Moutinho as an orchestrator and a top striker no.9 a la Damiao. With Defoe in form it would give Damiao 6 months to settle in properly. Moutinho could also also be eased in by being used intermittently with Dembele. I think we would then need to sign another top class RW to replace Lennon but that can be left until the summer IMO and as stated above would still consider the little 'un an important member of the squad! Of course thats my mini Xmas/Santa wish list, personally I doubt we would sanction two big signings in January and will be lucky if we get one of them! We could finally play 4-3-3 Sandro, Dembele, Moutinho, Bale, Ade, Damiao for example with Ade playing as a right forward with Bale left forward. Ade need not necessarily give great width as it would allow Walker lots of space to bombard forwards like last season and thats when he's at his best. BAE is naturally more defensive and could tuck in to help cover the CB's as this happened. Lads' its 3.15am currently UK time so I think I am allowed to dream out loud!!!!!
El Jefe
Again, sorry Mad. Been awake far too long at this stage! Respect mate, and I also agree with and disagree with your posts! Ha ha, isn't that the way it is! But you are a good 'un here, in my opinion.
SpursEagle
Back to bed I go, good night to those still around, well atleast it still is in the UK!
El Jefe
Hey El Jefe, nice to meet you here! Serious optimism with the signings of Moutinho and Damaio in January. You must be newly supporting us, because it's not gonna happen! lol Nice dream though
SpursEagle
LOL! El Jefe, obviously nobody every broke it to you that Santa ain't real ;-)
Madaboutspurs
lmao Mad, but gotta love EJ's optimism! I reckon we should start a movement .. EJ for chairman! Levy out!
SpursEagle
I don't think there are any Brad haters on here...he is a good pro. BUT the decision to pick him over Hugo puts him under the micro-scope. It's a decision that calls AVB's judgement into question, creates a story to bash us with, will make other players more difficult to sign and could cost us millions of pounds and leave us with no goalkeeper despite paying FOUR hefty salaries for the position. It's a self inflicted wound...
shedboy2
lennon for Naughton?....Juande Villas Boas anyone? his judgement is poor...he just doesn't have the experience and I don't see why a PL club like ours should be a training ground for anyone....yes all managers make mistakes and you should constantly be learning but to keep making the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome....what's the that the definition of?
shedboy2
Same idiots on here i see. Can always count on Vital Spurs for a bit of over-reaction! Thought they did quite well - for long spells looked like we were going to win or get a draw at the very least until the late, late sucker-punch. Bottom line is we CAN'T compete financially with the Top 3 teams (and therefore quality of player), so under the circumstances, with a still depleted team, we held our own. Look, it is all panning out how anyone could have expected. Its just idiotic over-expectation that's fuelling the vitriol on this site. Last 11 games of last season (with a full team including Modric, VDV etc) yielded 16 points. First 11 games of this season have yielding 17 points. With the sale of our best players, a change of manager/system and the injuries we have - i'd like to know who believes our results would IMPROVE under those circumstances?? Get a grip, stop over-reacting and enjoy the ride. We are ahead of our only main rival for 4th place and still in Europe and the FA Cup. With all our best players to come back fresh in the new year. Its not that bad.
StillRickyVilla
people are forgetting last season under harry we was completely useless against the top teams. 5-1 city, 3-0 united, 5-2 arsenal 5-1 chelsea in cup, and that was with modric kaboul vdv ekotto
redknappslayer
There are too many problems at Spurs yet AGAI. Last season we had HR who woffled on and made some pathetic substitutions and was tactically useless at times and we lost a 12 point lead and from Jan was very poor. We had ageing players and players that were not getting a look in and this brought discontent. It couldn't go.

Now we have a squad weaker than last season because we lost good players because they were fedup from HR mismangement and sold our better players and brought in mediocre players and a manager that seems to be installing a system that just doesn't work because we haven't the right players to do that. His substitutions and mentality (defensive) is not working either.

We then have the merrygoround every window with reports that we are investing big time for quality players but we just don't get any of them and it seems we have a chairman who demands CL footy on a shoestring.

AVB for me cannot be judged just yet as I am not sure he has brought any players and his squad is average. I don't think he really knows what to do with substitutions because I doubt he trusts any of the players to make a difference. Even if he plays Ade and Defoe would it really make a difference in the PL? If we haven't a strong enough squad then we will always struggle because when players are out of form or other teams match us we don't have a back up plan, players that can change a game. If Ade and Defoe wasn't working who would come on and make a difference. Just like losing modric has Dembele made a difference has Hudd made a difference with Dembele out - NO. Have we enough depth to cover the wings, RB, LB - NO.

We haven't pushed on from last season and probably will not unless AVB can keep us in contention over the next few weeks and we invest heavily in Jan. Will that happen? Probably not.

It is a miserable time for us fans but in all honesty it is always miserable. We are always a 'nearly' team and we always have problems with the managers. Can we not just have a manager that knows what we want and put it in to practice. Our managers are always flawed.
thfan
Nice to wake up to some common sense SRV. However, at the risk of being accused of over reacting, I am still trying to understand how we managed to end up chasing a game with 4 recognised central defenders and one full back on the pitch.
jacobslad
jacobslad, once we get our players back and Lloris is deemed ready the back 5 is completely different to the one your currently seeing. I think the best back 5 over the long-term will be Lloris, BAE, Verts, Kaboul, Naughton. Completely different from yesterday - so its difficult to predict at this time the way things might pan out defensively. And then when you consider we are missing Parker and Dembele, the probable starting central midfielders and with Ade still trying to find his sharpness/fitness - it doesn't take too much intelligence to see that a continuation of last season's form was about what could have been expected at this time. Just need to stay in the hunt until the New Year, get our players back and then push on. As has been mentioned, Levy really needs to strengthen in January/Next Summer upfront and on the wings and in central midfield to give us more options.
StillRickyVilla
Well I have to say it has been a long time coming, in some cases I thought it would never happen, but at last some of you are seeing the wood from the trees. I don't think the sacking of HR is a point worth revisiting, but the direction in which this club is going most definately is. At the time of Redknapp's departure, there was much speculation as to who we would like as supporters to replace him. Blanc, Deschamps, De Boar, Martinez, Moyes, were among the names mentioned, but our dim wit of a chairman, that bloke famed for making destructive decisions ever since he assumed control at THFC, particularly in the field of hiring and firing managers, decided to take an "inspired" gamble and appoint a bloke whose only previous foray in the PL had been a disaster. OK he had done well at Porto, just as another of Levy's inspired choices Ramos had done at Seville, and that had gone "tits up". In addition the bloke is wet behind the ears at 34, with no playing pedegree whatsoever, and is showing a mentality and football philosophy as far removed from that which THFC is used to, and admired for i.e. attacking entertaining football as possible. This should not have been a surprise as he had showed this style both at Porto and Chelsea. As well as appointing his new "star in the making" coach, Levy then proceeded to asset strip the squad, and sell off two star players, one in the last hours of the window, and several adequate squad players, replacing them with journeymen (Sigurdson an Dempsey) as well as accidently signing 2 decent players in Vertonghen and Dembele, but over all turning a top 4,5 squad into a top 10 squad. We are now 11 games in and currently sit behind WBA and West Ham, two clubs better known for ther Yo Yo abilities than their winning in the PL, thats the depths to which our "transition" has deteriorated. The bare true inescaple fact is that Levy's lack of ambition, and his stuborn reluctance, or refusal, to invest in the required quality of player, and the antics of our "L" plated coach are seeing this club self destruct from a CL quarter finalist, and consistent top 5 finisher, back to where it came from, mid table mediocraty, it is sad and criminal but I am afraid inevitable whilst Messrs Lewis and Levy are in control. They are property people not football people, success on the pitch is not ther priority, in fact it is not desirable, as being in their mid table comfort zone is far cheaper to administer. Our only salvation is for ENIC to sell up, and stand aside so that somebody with the money, the will, the ambition, and the committment to take this club to where it needs, and deserves to go come on board.
Frank
What a shock, we lost away to the champions by a goal in the last minutes. They have also not lost at home for nearly 2 season. AVB out? Wake up guys and smell the god damn coffee, we are missing key players and the new player we bought are taking longer to settle in. I remember very well the days when Bale was a jinx to the 1st team, I bet you all moan if he's sold though!! Many posters on here have incredibly short memories and so very blinkered views. We have players in our squad who are not good enough to compete at the very top. When the players we do have get injured and these squad players are call upon the major SHOCK to everyone is "Why can't we beat Citeh away with our reserves" Time will tell, I for one believe in AVB and he should be given time. Some of the so called fans posting for his head are shameful.
yiddyboy
The only saving grace is we are builing a new Sainsbury store, that should it all come right.
Frank
There's too much complete & utter vitriolic $h1te being spouted on here for me to be able to post any sort of measured opinion without being crapped on, so I'm not going to.

Spuds-U-Like
And back comes the worn out record, titled FRANK
yiddyboy
FRANK, you should be happy. Your team won yesterday. Sugar Daddy Citeh, they're right up your street.
yiddyboy
I think this summarises the situation very well http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/11/12/3521110/-?
Big Ron
Yiddyboy, why have we got squad players who aren't good enough?Of course we have injuries, everyboy gets the same problem, that's why it is a 25 man squad. Of course a result at Cty was unlikely, but were a result v Wigan, Norwich, and WBA all at home equally unlikely. The problem is deeper than the results, this team is nothing like a Spurs team, we are playing the worst football for a Spurs team in many years. You can excuse AVB all you like, but he ain't got a Spurs mentality.
Frank
We are not paupers yiddyboy have a look at Deliotes listings for richest clubs in the world' we are in the top 15, we have our billionaire owner as well, although you would never know.Those that criticise City and Chelsea seem to think being rich, and investing in your football club is a crime, perhaps they would be happier in Cuba where everybody is skint.
Frank
Yiddyboy - think its you who should wake up sunshine. Have you seen the football we're dishing up this year?? And to say we had the reserves out against is a joke. Friedal, Walker, Gallas, Dawson, Thudd, Lennon, Bale, Defoe, Ade, Sandro - how many reserves there????
mattspurs1982
Peterb - I am not saying that Freidel is brilliant or even is better than Lloris. In am saying that he is not to blame for the poor movement, passing and creativity in the outfield where our problems lie. Yes we are missing key players so I would not expect to beat the top teams away but these players should be able to do much better and that is down to AVB pure and simple.
Love totty
It has been blatently obvious that Gallas has been out of his depth but AVB doesn't seem to fancy Dawson either who imo with a string of games would possibly been a better choice than Gallas. What is the point in having Naughton if he isn't ready to step in for BAE. Moving Vertonghen loses his strengtths and yet again we have a manager playing players out of position because they don't trust or rate cover players.

Now Freidal did reasonably well last season and has shown this season to save us at times but also he has shown some indecisive decision making or more to the point playing safely on his line which is proving to be a problem at times. So we have Lloris and he doesn't get the no1 jersey why? Is there something we are missing something we don't see that AVB does or is it a matter of AVB not really rating Lloris either or is AVB to scarred to drop Friedal.

Walker has been hopeless this season not that I thought he was that good anyway. Do we have backup someone who can come in that AVB trusts and rates doesn't look like it or is it a matter once again that AVB doesn't have the courage to drop players. Is this same same old just as previous managers stick with their faithfuls.
br>Now up top is another ? What do we play? AVB seems set on a lone striker yet as he actually got a good enough player to play just off the main striker - NO I don't think he as so the question is until he finds such a player then why not play both ADE and Defoe.

Back to the midfield problems. We have also screamed for a defensive midfielder no nonsense player and Parker gave us that and Sandro is just as capacble but what do we do - we sell our best CM (ok he wanted to go) but we don't replace him with another top CM. Dembele as good as he can be is not in the same class as Modric and yet again do we have adequate cover for when he is out - NO. We needed to keep Modric or at least replace him with equal talent and to progress we needed to have a second quality midfielder to cover either Modric or his replacement, that would have been progress not lose Modric and replace with a lesser player and no backup.

The same goes with the wingers. for us to progress we needed qaulity backup and we haven't anyone so we are relying on Lennon and Bale and if any get inured or have loss of form we are stuffed. I see no progress in terms of ins and outs and I am not seeing any progress in terms of how we are competing. In fact we are not playing very well but we are hanging in there and as I said before if we can stay close to top four and invest in Jan then we have a chance. If we don't invest we will not make top four and next season it will be even harder to attract players and keep the likes of Bale, Ade, Vertonghen and Lloris.
thfan
Frank - Remind me what trophies sit in the cabinet from the wonderful football Lord Arry delivered? Oh and drawing against West Brom is criminal, although they are above us in the league. I guess a loss would have been more appropriate! Mattspurs1982 - Friedel, Gallas, Dawson, Thudd would not get in my best XI and how many of them would get into the another top 6 best XI?
yiddyboy
No wonder everybody else laughs at Spurs fans. We are the most un-realistic, blinkered fans in the world! What performance did people expect? Going away to the PL champions who've spent a half BILLION pounds on their squad compared to us SELLING our best players in the summer and us having half a team out injured. It was a good game, we did well under the circumstances. For a long-time it looked like we would win. It looked like a well-earned point but their extra quality at the end did us. That chip through-ball by Silva and the Dzecko finish were extra-ordinary. This is football. Its quality that without a sugar-daddy we can only dream about. Its not about idiotic sniping at AVB's coaching. I really don't know what planet Spurs fans are on sometimes. If your going to abuse anyone, direct it at ENIC and Levy, but they appear to be immune on here.
StillRickyVilla
Good to see the AVB spin brigade have made the office chairs....so talk me through the inspired substitution of Lennon for Naughton? genius....SRV the people who name call most often are other Spurs 'fans' although real fans wouldn't debase each other...you only have to use your eyes to see the dross we're being served up...
shedboy2
SRV - All fans get their share of abuse. All fans have a section of support that will boo. All fans have a section of supporters who hate their manager. All fans have a section of fans that hate the owners. All fans have sections that come on to forums to moan or stick up for their club. Why do you think we are special?? I have nothing against anything else you say in your post because its your opinion, but seriously you need to watch some other teams play and talk to some other fans. Your right, it was allays going to be a tough game, but did you really thing some of the people would just change their views even if we had of won? I'm sorry mate, it has to be said. Its a marathon, if we succeed some will still bang on regardless, im not saying its right but on here, its a given...... it happened with Harry and will happen with AVB. We have a derby game coming up next week, we can win it, but its going to be tough like this one.
SpursOne2
Yiddyboy - your point was that we played a load of reserves against city - AND WE DID NOT. They were / are all first teamers. The debate wasnt whether those players would get into any other teams.
mattspurs1982
wonder how much the Hammers have spent in relation to us? they outplayed City and had a goal wrongly dis-allowed? City were fragile, this was an opportunity. Perhaps we didn't expect a win but we did expect us to perform...I'd give AVB a 4 out 10...weakest link in the chain yesterday.
shedboy2
IF AVB makes the same mistakes again vs. Arsenal and we get a spanking, the knifes really will be out...
mattspurs1982
That's right Shedboy, true to form, ignore the bigger picture and focus on one substitution that didn't take your fancy. 1. NEITHER of us know why that substitution was made, so why are you beating up AVB over it when you haven't got all the information 2. Lennon was injured (he's withdrawn from the England squad) 3. What other right-sided player was there on the bench to replace Lennon given that he was injured and we were at the time trying to hold on for a well-earned point? I suppose we could have put Siggy right-wing, but given there was only 3 mins to go, it was 1-1, and we were under the cosh, extra defensive cover on that side doesn't appear overtly stupid to me? I'm not a completely blind AVB apologist - i just thinks its a vendetta from certain sections of the support who wanted him to fail from the start and use any story they can get hold of to back up their argument.
StillRickyVilla
SpursOne, good points you make. You right, some people just have blinkered views regardless of what happens. I see what you are saying. I am open-minded about the whole thing. I'm not making any rash media-driven knee-jerk judgements on AVB for at least another year (i would give him 3 years minimum to prove himself but i understand that's not realistic in the current world of instant gratification). I'm not saying he IS the messiah - all i'm saying is give him a fair chance! Fergie had THREE years to sort Man United out!
StillRickyVilla
mattspurs1982 - First teamers in my book at ones that would start if everyone was fit. Therefore I stand by my comments stating the 4 names are reserves!
yiddyboy
yiddyboy - still not having it im afraid. Out of the whole team vs. Citeh, only really Dawson and Thudd could be considered just outside the 1st XI. Dawson didnt even start and Thudd was good enough to get us 4th 2 seasons ago. The blame lies with AVB - not the players
mattspurs1982
SRV - Exactly fella. I like your posts but some will not change their views regardless mate. I want us to smash the gooners next week for my own reasons, for the benefit of the team and coach...and also to shut a few up on here. Mot of that is achievable..but not that last one ha. COYS.
SpursOne2
mattspur - If you want to blame AVB then that's your choice, IMO Thudd isn't good enough, no mobility which is a shame. He may have been involved 2 years ago but for that season Modric wasn't due to injury. So with your logic, we shouldn't miss Modric either?
yiddyboy
I dont think it is fair to Judge AVB until it is his team, with his players not performing. he didn't really sign any of the players that came in, in the summer and the only 2 he really wanted Moutinhon on Willen he didnt get. throw in to the mix the loss of Moders in that key midfeild role. This season was always going to be about AVB finding a rythem and also testing out his phylosiphies with the team. I'm not blamming Levy either, players like Dembelle, Verts will go on to be star players for us for many years, AVB just need to get his team - then if that doesnt work we have every reason to be dissapointed.

I was unfortunate enough to be at the home game against Wigan with my 5 year old son. he loved it he was there signing and screeming, really supporting his club, so it was really difficult for him to understand the boo's and anti AVB chants, infact he said a very simple thing which actuall helped me realx - he said they shoud cheer louder when the team are bad, then the players know we still like them....... that is the key. Its a marraige and as in marraige we will be togeheter in sickness and in health.

Give AVB the time he needa and i'm 100% sure the rewards will be there at the end.

COYS!!
mattspurs
Yiddyboy - you've lost me (easily done). I just think the players were good enough to hold on for that a point and im not letting them or AVB off saying they were reserves.
mattspurs1982
mattspurs1982, my main point is, any team having to field 4 or 5 reserves/squad players in place of a guaranteed starters due to injuries will struggle. We don't have the depth in the squad to accommodate so many absentees. In the perfect world where all our players are fit and then the injuries could be picked by me, I'd rather have Friedel, Thudd, Dawson and Gallas injured and in return I could start with Lloris, Kaboul, BAE and Dembele/Parker.
yiddyboy
ill re pharese it sorry chrishove, the english players we have that i mentioned arent up to be a top 4 club
123spurs
The biggest difference between us and citeh was when WE attacked we had no one really going forward with the ball holder tin support so when the time came for the cross there was only one or two players there, when citeh attacked they attacked in numbers and had the people up top to receive the delivery and score. We need to be able to attack in numbers like a wolf pack and then we may start to get the results. We have the players to be able to do it, it's just that we don't for some reason. It had nothing to do with BF saving so called easy shots it had to do with our toothless attack not scoring more than them. End of.
chrishove123
123spurs no worriews there mate it's just that in these days of over the top PC policing one has to be careful what one says or writes and how it is said.
chrishove123
123spurs my apologies I was tired and grouchy after a long day. No excuse i know. So once again sorry if I was a bit harsh mate.
chrishove123
No sensible person would judge any coach on a single game. Back in August I said the squad we had was good enough for 4th spot properly organised and motivated. I also said that it would be clear by Xmas whether AVB had the ability to acheive that. It's not looking good but to be fair, the loss of Parker and Dembele has been a real blow. Fortunately Le Arse, Newcastle and Liverpool have been poor too so there is still time to recover. It would be criminal to miss out again when the opposition have opened the door for us.
Love totty
Loosing to city at their spot isn’t exactly a hanging offense is it? Im just getting very concerned that we can’t hold on to a lead. I was happy with the appointment of AVB, and despite some of the disappointing results I think he has brought some positives already. However, some of the tactical decisions have been baffling so far. I mean why does he keep playing Dempsey? Ade and defoe looked awesome together yet he plays a man who has had absolutely no impact in any of the games he’s played in this season. Just disappointed at the moment but I don’t think there is any one person or scapegoat. It’s a mixture of injuries, bad decisions and poor individual performances. Yeah we were good for most of the first half but a game is 90minutes long. Far too defensive yet again for me. You cannot park the bus with half the game to go, which is the mistake AVB keeps making game after game.
hudderspur
All you armchair premier league managers make me laugh. You make knee jerk assumptions, and criticise team selection and substitutions with the benefit of hindsight. Get out there in the dugout, make the team selections and the substitutions BEFORE the event and then see if you can do any better with the poor selection of players we have available. Half of our currently available players wouldn't even get on the bench at ManC, ManU, or Chelsea. All those that think AVB is an idiot and that they could do better, then go and apply for his job. Either put up or shut up.
Hot_Spur
We couldn't beat them last year with a stronger team that was well on form at the time, so to expect to beat them this time around was pushing it. I thought we looked assured and confident in the first half, but just couldn't sustain it in the face of the superior skill and drive of most of their players. I mean, like for like their team is far superior to ours and we had some crucial players out, no Mod, no VDV or their replacements. What is clear is Ade should always play whether up top or behind the front man. He was amazing in hanging on to the ball and frustrating them even when out numbered. I can see Peter's argument for Dempsey, but wonder what might have happened if Defoe had been introduced earlier. The 'sit on a lead' tactics are seemingly not working at the moment and if we're looking to score on the break Dempsey is severly lacking in the required pace. I was gutted yesterday - but realistically, it was the result I expected. I think realism's got to be the key term for this season, especially considering the amount of injuries we have. COYS!
DocHotspurs
SRV- if you've read any of my posts you'll see I also look at the big picture...incidentally is that the big picture to which you don't have all the facts and therefore by your logic should not be commenting on? yep let's give AVB 3 years regardless of performances...he's done so well at implementing 3 year plans in the past...oh wait, he's never been anywhere 3 years! He knew our squad when he took over, he's had a transfer window, he's making decisions that are costing us....I'm not saying sack him now but Levy needs to be aware there's a potential problem, the natives are getting restless and he should have a plan b for January...whether it's a new manager or to heavily back the guy he has to be prepared to act or his head will be on block...that could scupper a nice return for ENIC on their property deals....
shedboy2
Hot_Spur how can we judge AVB before a match? You debate his decisions he made during the game AFTER the match. Thats why we're all here. Who knew he would take Lennon off for Naughton beforehand? Who knew he'd put Gallas at left back? Who knew Demspey would get a full 90mins? Its only AFTER the game we see the failings and rightfully judge him on his decisions post not pre
mattspurs1982
shedboy2 - spot on post
mattspurs1982
*Gallas at RB (not LB)
mattspurs1982
Hot_Spur - great post son!
yiddyboy
mattspurs1982 You mean to say you haven't got a crystal ball? How remiss of you. LOL
chrishove123
mattspurs1982 - anybody can make obvious statements after the event has occurred, this is what I believe Hot_Spur is trying to state. I believe AVB was right to sub Ade (yellow card), Lennon (Looked tired, possibly injured), Walker (injured). The only sub that maybe could have been different would have been Dempsey for Ade, but then I suppose if Ade had then had got himself sent off, all the AVB hate mob would have said he should have subbed him.
yiddyboy
AVB can't win at the moment. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!
yiddyboy
Mattspurs 1982 - You haven't read my post correctly. Read it again - SLOWLY.
Hot_Spur
yep AVB would have been slaughtered if he stuck with Lloris after the Villa game...oh, nope don't believe he would. Yep slaughtered for taking off walker and replacing with Naughton, ah nope. Slaughtered for taking off Dempsey after 60 mins for Defoe or even Gylfi, nope. If Lennon was injured move Bale across and put on Falque or Townsend, yet again he wouldn't be slaughtered for any of those....but replace your RB with an old leggy left sided CB who you constantly play on the right who was actually a half decent LB in his day, disrupting the back 4- that's the sort of decision that will get questioned...and rightly so.
shedboy2
Hot spur - "make the team selections and the substitutions BEFORE the event and then see if you can do any better" - what have I mis interpreted?
mattspurs1982
another spot on post Shedboy2
mattspurs1982
mattspurs - Now you are quoting something different altogether to what you said previously. My point is this, you people that criticise AVB and think you can do better, why don't you go and apply for his job, get yourself in the dugout, make the team selections and the substitutions, with the players we currently have avialable, half of which wouldn't even get on the bench at the 3 top teams, and see if you can do better. As yiddyboy has already pointed out, Walker and Lennon were subbed because they were injured (both have withdrawn from the England squad), and Ade was subbed because he was clearly knackered and also on a yellow card. You and others have severely criticised AVB for those subs without knowing those facts. As I've said before, knee jerk assumptions that AVB is an idiot and doesn't know what he's doing.
Hot_Spur
Hot-spur- do you know something we don't? has AVB been sacked? Is there a vacancy? I'd happily apply for the job but I don't think I'd get it along with countless more qualified applicants (Levy, eh)...if only I'd met Bobby Robson as a boy....as for our players not getting on the bench at other teams I bet Lloris would get as much time at Manu as he does for us....
shedboy2
shedboy2 - Go and look up the word experience and then you might understand why AVB played his experienced players. If he'd have gone for the Lloris, Naughton, Gylfi and Falque approach and we'd have lost 3 or 4 nil I guess you'd be on here saying "AVB playing inexperience away at Citeh, what a clueless Manager"
yiddyboy
any asic spurs fan who knows half a nugget about football would have replaced an injured walker with ANOTHER RIGHT BACK. Did we have one on the bench??? Hmmm Naughton. But hang on, lets bring on Dawson instead and disrupt the back 4 organisation with 10mins left to go when we're up against it. It aint rocket science hotspur
mattspurs1982
Its an AVB witch-hunt - pure and simple. Whatever he does it will give some fans licence to snipe. They have already decided - the most extreme example being RagingSpurs. Its sad and i'd hoped that the club would have united behind a new manager, like when we had Jol. I'm afraid it is so much easier to criticise and moan and the snipers WILL win and hound the man out. Brainless. For the record, i thought Daws/Gallas did well and we looked solid and experienced - but for a moment of absolute magic by Silva/Dzecko it would have been a really well-earned point.
StillRickyVilla
Watching the second citeh goal again confirms what i thought when i first saw it. BF was not to blame, it was the defence who were to blame. Instead of closing down before the lobbed pass was made they just stood off him and LET him make the pass, no one even tried to make any attempt to close him down let alone take the ball off him. Yet again ball watching in the last few minutes has let us down, it's not a lack of skill or players it is a lack of attention to the smaller things and detail, complacency and stupid lapses of concentration that lets us down. It's almost as if we say right we've proven we can do it, now we can just sit back and chill instead of giving 100% for the WHOLE game.
chrishove123
Hot Spur, why you keeping pasting the same post, surely posters opinions are what you come on the site for?? If you don't want to read them , don't come on the site, or don't come on the game thread, it's like to come on the site just to antagonise
Ossie
Chris, admittedly i've only seen it in real time in the pub, but i disagree. I thought it was an incredible dink over the defenders to stop the ball on to that postage stamp was incredible. And not only that but for Dzecko to hook the ball from behind him, generating that power. It was incredible skill. I personally don't think you can blame the defence! We had numbers back, we just got done!
StillRickyVilla
DocHotspurs great post, that's the way I saw things, shedboy2 your last post to SRV is on point !!!!
Ossie
some good posts shedboy2.can someone please explain why, when we play good attacking football and get in front, we then seem to change tack ,go defensive and as usual concede. i wonder if the players really believe in AVB the lack of spirit some are showing.this site often resembles "The Trumen Show.In fact so do some of our performances.
topspur53
Blimey people actually read my posts! Just for the record I do not have an axe to grind against AVB but I find it amazing how some won't acknowledge any errors and attack those that do as in some way not being real fans or brainless etc... yiddyboy- your guess would be wrong...still you're consistent. By the way I looked up experience in the dictionary and it would seem that AVB doesn't have any....(cheap shot I know)..;)
shedboy2
StillRickyVilla I'm not saying it wasn't a great bit of skill, what i am saying is that we stood off and let him do it. I feel that we are far too guilty of ball watching and if someone had actually gone in and even tried to close hiom down he may not have had the time let alone the spact to be able to make that pass.
chrishove123
Hot Spur, it is idiotic to suggest that nobody should criticise AVB, because they couldn't do better. AVB is employed on a good salary to manage a PL Football Club, that it what he does (allegedly), we all of us have our own means of earning a living, we are not interchangeable. Using your arguement can we not criticise David Cameron unless we can prove we could do better as PM, absolute rubbish. When people take on high profile jobs in the media and public eye, one of the down sides is that they become subject to criticism, perhaps that's why they get paid as much. The fact is, our coaches performance so far this season, in terms of the performance of the players, and their results, his selection, substitutions, and tactical decisions all suggest that criticism is fully warranted and justified. There is an old saying "if you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen", this in the end may appy to AVB.
Frank
Spact = space. LOL
chrishove123
Frank ANYONE could do better than camermoron. LOL
chrishove123
Boom, boom as they say shedboy2, lovely that.
Frank
Nice one chrishoveLMFAO! Sorry Frank, good point, bad comparison mate. Barack Obama would've been a better one on the political front.

Spuds-U-Like
Think given what we were able to put out with injuries etc, fact we played Thusday and they played Tuesday so had 48 hours more rest and also the quality we were up against away, we did relatively OK and were undone by a quite brilliant goal in dieing moments of the game!
El Jefe
I mean even if not firing on all cylinders, when you have Toure, Silva, Tevez, Aguero and Dzeko - you have 5 potential world class match winners that can turn a game on its head within a second. We had/have Bale and thats it! So when we look at us against inferior teams its exactly the same as City looking at us yesterday at home - 3 points for the taking - even more so with our injuries and having little rest since our last game!
El Jefe
hot spur.. we are all entiitled to our opinion and as mattspurs said it aint rocket science. I love spurs as eveyone on this site does and i can assure you i would never be a boo boy at the games thats wrong and helps no one! The teams we have played so far this season mean we should be in a better position as our points tally of 17 is very poor! i, like every other spurs fan know that harry took his eye of the ball last season but to replace him with a man that couldnt even do it with the millions chelski have was a very bad move. i will guarantee you we will be mid table this year and more to the point a lot of fans will not watch the rubbish he will force our team to play. i pray that i am wrong but mainly with levy at the helm AVB will not get the players he needs and will not be able to motivate the players he has. which is why redknapp was successful . strange that man management in a time when its all about money is the only reason spurs got into the top four.
ginola29
 

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