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Kings of North London?

This weekend certainly won't decide which of Arsenal or Tottenham are the best side in North London, but it will certainly give us an indication as to which is struggling most.

I suppose it all depends on what colours you follow, but if we look at Tottenham, can we absolutely say we are better that Arsenal in anything other than current league position and perhaps seem to be at least retaining our position, whilst Arsenal seem to be slowly but surely declining.

Yet again Spurs are in transition and still await the first shovel to be dug for the new stadium and who knows what ramifications the cost will have on team building and mid-term success. Arsenal will soon have paid off their build, but you don't really get the impression that any sudden increase in wealth will tempt Arsene Wenger to spend big on the players that his team really needs. Also how long can he continue in the belief that getting a top four place is all that his fans really value?

As things stand, it seems clear that both sides are fighting for one Champions league place with a few others such as Everton, but you don't feel that either looks like closing the gap on the Manchester's or Chelsea and though Spurs have only flirted with CL football, what would missing out do for Arsenal and their own credentials as one of the competitions regulars and elite teams in the game? Will that affect them more than Spurs again missing out?

Not having a huge over-head for paying off The Emirates is fine, but should they lose out of CL money, surely they would remain in the same financial state, give or take a million here are there. We only have to look at Liverpool to see that players quickly reset their priorities from former CL teams to new ones, and how difficult would it be for Arsenal to recover their top four status and how long without it would they be considered as just another team? Spurs may not have remained as a CL team, but did they spend their money wisely and in appointing AVB, was that a step forward or step back? Only time will tell.

But what of M. Wenger, can he keep buying potential to replace world class performers and expect to succeed? There also has to come a point when either he decides to hang up his long coat or his board decide that a change is needed. Changing a manager is usually a cause for internal upheaval, but when a manager has been in place for as long as Wenger, you know the change will be felt from top to bottom within the club and it will take someone very special to take over, even if there hasn't been any silverware in years.

Today, neither side can really boast to being better than the other. As jod wrote yesterday, the table doesn't lie and neither side are punching their weight. Question is, how long will this latest Spurs transition take to complete and how big is the decline that Arsenal appear to be in? I suppose one question we should be asking is which team is currently in the better shape and who looks like turning things around with the least effort???




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday November 13 2012

Time: 10:00AM

Your Comments

Good day to all :-)
Madaboutspurs
I'm really worried this could be games against city Chelsea and the arse with nil points, just have a bad feeling sorry.
youknowspurs
I have been to the last two derbies at the ar5e, away en OF COURSE! and unfortunately, i think the result will leave me feeling more like i did last year, as opposed to the Bale, VDV, Kaboul comeback year...oh well, COYS
Klinsmann_18
Sorry but I think we are in for a hiding we have looked poor even in the games we have won. The players are getting fed up, the supporters are getting fed up and before long Levy will be getting fed up. It is a downward spiral. However, I do firmly believe AVB needs to be given at least one season and needs to be backed by the board in bringing in the players HE wants. The crowd must get behind him this is so important. Once we have Djembele and Kaboul back and bring in a few in jan we will look and feel a much better side. But I do expect to be midtable after Xmas, seriously.HHXX
Horny Helen
transition- an over-used word just to say you're not where you're supposed to be but hope to get to where you want to but without actually knowing you will...ie lost.
shedboy2
on the game- a must win for both clubs so expect the draw....the fans will be right up for it and I don't expect to hear any booing from our lot...
shedboy2
youknowspurs, why are you worried?? Why do you expect us to get points out of the games you have mentioned?? This is exactly spurs problem. These are not the games to worry about as those sides should beat us with their resources. its the games against wigan and the like that bother me. As for the game itself. Certain spurs defeat Im afraid.
jimmy-yid
Putting a positive spin on it, i'd rather be playing them now when there not firing on all cylinders, the gooner i sit next to isnt looking forward to this game at all. If we get a fast start we could cause a bit of an upset.
coys1717
jimmy-yid - but we way outspend arsenal...shouldn't that mean we win??
shedboy2
excellent article. Really good read :)
wiltshirespur
shedboy no we don't that is a myth... not in terms of margins anyway! we gained money in the last transfer window when we should have gone all out and have spent ***** all over the past few years. We did spend lots a few years ago when we were struggling but since then its been peanuts. Not having a go at Levy or anything just saying how it is.
wiltshirespur
Not quite kings of London but on our way ha. This up and coming game is going to be a big one for me. Both sides have not had the best of starts in the league, but major change through out both sides. Its tough to say how long our transition will take, i think the squad is good enough to win things now, but that's my opinion. As for Arsenal, they have been paying off their stadium for yonks so I'm sure that's taken its toll to date. I think right now our squad is better but we need good fight, determination and to bounce back from the man city game if we stand a chance of winning. COYS.
SpursOne2
wiltshirespur- I take your point but I didn't say net spend (we have made 32m profit on player sales in the past two years) but even then I'm sure we've outspent Arse over the last 10 years....as for who will take over from Arsen well at least they will have money to spend....we on the other hand will have to cover the 250-450m cost of building a new stadium with just an extra 16k seats...how many home games will that take to pay off?
shedboy2
great little link for tottenhams transfer activity http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html
coys1717
Although Dembele is due back this weekend after his injury, will he still be in contention for a starting slot? I hope so. Also Falque had a another good game yesterday http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/News/u21s-saints-report-12112012.page?
SpursOne2
good link- net spend we're sixth and arse 20th since 2003...anyone think we're capable of spending the least amount of money in the prem and getting top4?
shedboy2
One important fact to remember is Arsenal are where they are at full strength where as we have had star players out in key areas for the majority of the season so far. If we beat them on Sunday with those players still absent (though it does look as though Parker and Dembele may be close to returning in time) it would say more about them than it would about us if they were win. I think we've given very good accounts of ourselves against United, City and Chelsea so far this season and the only one in which we had close to our full strength side out (still minus Kaboul, Ade, Parker and BAE!) we won away at OT. We have had some poor results this season but they have been without our most creative central player and people seem to be forgetting we had those same poor results last season under HR with full strength sides. We are certainly in a transition period but I don't think we have taken a step back and if we have its is only due to selling the likes of Modric and VDV rather than changing the man in charge.
MJBSpur
shedboy - We did last year, does that count?
SpursOne2
Arsenal are conceding, but they are also scoring. We always concede but we struggle to score. A win for us is possible but I'm not confident.
Shannon
SpursOne2- only if you think we'll get top4 without spending anymore in january...;)
shedboy2
MJBSpur-????I don't know how you got that? arsenal have the most injuries in the league whilst we're somewhere like 8th...??? their GK, LB two influential mid's and a forward whilst Wiltshire is only just back....
shedboy2
That said we don't know if Walker or lennon will be fit....if wlaker is out common sense would suggest Naughton but who do we play instead of Lennon? Falque? townsend? or perhaps Gylfi?
shedboy2
Slowly begging to realize that we will not be anything but a 5th place team unless we SPEND BIG! In at least one transfer window. No matter what manager comes along, success will be few and far between if he is not backed by the funds! If we can't bring the likes of Damiao, Willian, Isco etc etc we won't go foward! I suggest we stick with AVB and give him a massive war chest in January or next summer, bring in the players he wants and not budge on selling them for at least 5 years! We can't expect AVB to work miracles with the old retired lot Arry brought in! Fergie's time at united didn't start too and hes a success! COYS!!!!
trinispur04
I believe that both lennon and walker are supposed to be fit for the weekend and were apparently only minor injuries
oxfordspur
thanks Ox....
shedboy2
shedboy - Depends really, bit of a strange question. If we have a fully fit squad now or by then, what type of signings do you mean? ect, even with injuries.... Its hard to say. It not a definite no at this stage mate!
SpursOne2
Ask yourselves this... first team against first team, How many Arsenil players make the Spurs Line up and correspondingly how many of our players get in their team. Last year only Vermaelen (and RVP) would have got in our squad Arsenil would have taken nearly all our squad. This year I'd take Cazorla. Arsenil would snap up Bale Kaboul Vertongen Walker BAE Lennon Dembele Parker and Defoe, they'd take Ade now, But the reality is half of our team are injured and those left are doing their best which is just off the mark. Arsenil will raise their game coz this game is their cup final - the only thing their good enough to give their fans this year. The lads that play at the weekend have got to be first to every loose ball, pass and find space, but above all be at thier best. They can do it -with a little luck.
SPUDMAN
As it stands I would say Arsenal are a better side than us even though they are having a run of poor games. They have the experience in being here before and still grabbing that 4th spot over and over again and the experience in a manager taking them there year after year.

Unless we strengthen in January my bet is on Arsenal taking the fourth spot and we will be lucky to take fifth. However, if we strengthen ENOUGH in January then I think we can compete with Arsenal this season and I expect the two Manchester clubs and Chelsea to take top three.

In January I would like to sell JJ, Livermore and possibly Gallas although Dawson may be the one to go and Gomes and Cuducini to free up funds. Bring in a TOP midfelder and striker at least and a winger would be a bonus.

As for this weeks Derby I am expecting Arsenal to win as much as my heart wants us to win. Arsenal just know how to turn it on against us even when they are playing poor. If Arsenal win then the pressure will start to mount up for our players and AVB and then we will see what the players and manager are all about. To see if they csn stop the decline and how they respond to another loss. It will also show us what levy plans are to see if he stays strong with AVB and backs him in January.
thfan
spudman yeah arsenal sure would take our lennon over walcott gervinho chambelin podolski, good one! id take sagna, on form vermalin, carzola, arteta has been fantastic, wilshire and podolski plus either walcott or gervinho cos lennons garbage!
redknappslayer
if were gonna go with 1 striker id rather see siggy given a chance to play behind as dempseys been shocking
redknappslayer
shedboy2, apologies I'm not as well versed in the goons squad situation as you obviously. Though you only mention 5 players where we also have had Kaboul, BAE, Parker, Dembele and Ade plus Bale through pregnancy and I'd say those players are more influencial to us than those you mention for the goons.
MJBSpur
We are going to maul them, leaving behind a heaving wreckage of men who used to be considered 'top players'. 4-1 Spurs, Defoe, Ade, Bale x 2.
Tactically Challenge
Strange how the poll for a City win last weekend is increasing. Sums up some of the fans on this forum!! As for the weekend, to be brutally honest I'd take a draw to ensure we stay above them, they are at home which is a massive advantage and both us and them are missing key players. Based on the facts I'd put them slightly favourite so a draw wouldn't be a bad result. Of course I want an away win, I just hope all our internationals come back fit and healthy. I believe Parker and Dembele are close to return, Kaboul is due in the New Year. Anyone know how long it is for BAE???
yiddyboy
Here! here! to what jimmy said. Lets work on beating the "lesser" teams, home and away first.
Arky
Can we replace Dempsey and also put falque in for the injured Lennon.
Klspurs
@Tactically Challenged, that's the spirit. COME ON YOU SPURS!!!
Arky
I say we play a 3-5-2 formation against the scum. COYS
Arky
@Totalknobhead, hope that you are doing alright, wheresoever you are right now.
Arky
I dread to say that scum's positive win in this fixture will catapult their confidence and put them on the same run which resulted in Champions League football last year. But the omens are there. The actual question is: what can we REALISTICALLY counteract and oppose them? There is no way Gallas+Walker+Friedel will cope with Podolski+Walcott+Giroud. So expect goals. Without Dembele the midfield will be bossed by Wilshere and Cazorla although let's hope our brilliant Sandro will have something to say about it. Upfront: almost no chance that we play two strikers, meaning is it's going to be Adebayor. So in these circumstances our great reliance is on wingers, i.e. counter-attack at pace. If Lennon and Bale play their level of football, be motivated and passionate enough then maybe and just maybe we have the slimmest of chances. Otherwise we'll go down the drainage. And quite expectedly so too.
Moscovite
MJBSpur- I wouldn't say I'm well versed in their squad but they have 8 injuries to our 5...all the teams have problems at the moment, shame we have our own and aren't in a position to take advantage...
shedboy2
How about heir apparent of London. LOL. Hopefully Dembele will be fit. How about Carroll in for Dempsey anyone? and if Lennon isn't fit play Falque.
chrishove123
I hope AVB and Staff have watched the Man U vs Le scum game, when that lot had the ball Rooney was as close to Arteta as you could get and that made a big difference, it stopped them playing, just a thought?
spu 4 life
Come on everyone, this is the Spurs Scum derby, we all know form books almost always go out of the window for this one so the result is pretty much unguessable. All we can do is support the team properly and make sure we are louder than they are. Our players will have such a lift when they hear Spurs supporters out singing the le ar$e supporters.
chrishove123
OMG we could give that job to dempsey, not to much to ask is it?
spu 4 life
Just saw Van Persie pulls out of Holland squad with injury and thought Oooh great, then remembered he doesn't play for them any more. Just so used to seeing his name paired with that club that it's become almost a Pavlovian reaction to think of the two names together. LOL
chrishove123
Zaha to Spurs??? ..... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/crystal-palace/9674229/Wilfried-Zaha-I-dont-think-anyone-is-better-than-me-except-Cristiano-Ronaldo-and-Lionel-Messi.html
chrishove123
Arsenal will always be a better side than us. We had our chance over the last couple of seasons to really make some gap between us, but Levy didn't have the balls.
Tottenham Hotcore
we aint good enough and i expect arsenal to roll us over because they usually want it more
whitehartmart
Cor i just love the optimism on here today. (irony).
chrishove123
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/News/u21s-saints-report-12112012.page? In case anyone missed it.
jacobslad
"This weekend certainly won't decide which of Arsenal or Tottenham are the best side in North London "

Really ?? Arsenal are way in front ,have been for the last 20 seasons & sadly in too many ways ,Board ,manager ,stadium ,players . .We have some serious catching up to do .
I actually envy Arsenal & Spurs need to get our own Wenger ,he`s a fine manager .Hopefully AVB will grow & learn to be as good ,because Wenger is a footballing genius .AVB the jury is still out .
Last 20 years Spurs have had an incredible 22 managers ,get a great one in & keep him .Just like Man united & Arsenal did
big cockeral
we aint good enough and i expect arsenal to roll us over because they usually want it more
whitehartmart
we aint good enough and i expect arsenal to roll us over because they usually want it more
whitehartmart
This site is becoming ever increasingly depressing with most of the comments. FFS - We failed against Wigan - fair do's we can all moan about that. We lost to Chelsea, and Man City - two of the best teams this year. Stop being so fecking melodramatic and back the team FFS!! Rant over!!!
woodyn17
if we play well and hopefully get a good result i really think we could kick on from there, and hopefully that would give the players and manager (and whole club) some belief. Right now as a team we are not performing as well as we could be i think... and when i say team i mean the whole club; the players, manager, fans, board etc... by that i mean the board have broken promises and not backed AVB enough, which i hope changes in January, the players have put in some very lack-lustre performances and need to start showing some passion for the jersey, the fans were **** against wigan and have been mainly all season although we supported well against city and against maribor but i would us to up it again and again to really support the team, and the manager needs time obviously but some tactical decisions and team selections have bugged me a bit but our squad isn't as diverse as it should be and hopefully in Jan we can improve in key areas and go for a more attacking team hopefully...
rahn DMC
Woodyn17 - if you think this is bad there were people on this site criticising Harry Redknapp after we finished 4th!
MrSpurs
hope springs eternal.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAojywkXkzA
jacobslad
The Spurs Show made me laugh it was very negative but more worryingly I found myself starting to agree!!!! Lol.
MrSpurs
"This weekend certainly won't decide which of Arsenal or Tottenham are the best side in North London". Of course it won't. We already know that Spurs are the best side in the land!
In-spurs-ational
use them (ars0) as human spades
Uskok
Big C -- Whoa! A well put, honest assessment, that deals in realistic terms over insult and sensationalism. Damn, never thought I'd say this, but I actually agree with you. Must be a sign that the Mayan Apocalypse has some truth in it! I'm off to get a drink ...
SpursEagle
Given that both ourselves and Arsenal are behind not only Chelsea but West Ham in the table the whole thing seems a little hollow.
jod
Yes, Big C, you have it spot on. Let's be realistic. Just heard Dembele's out, that's a blow. I'm in two minds for Saturday, park the bus, but AVB has no parking skills and the players that we have seem incapable of doing that. Or, play Defoe, Ade and Carroll and go for it. Audere-est-Facere after all. SpursEagle, forgot about the Mayan thingy. So let's go for it and mine's a pint....
ParkLaneBB
Well my one vote for a win counts as 25% means we have only 4 votes so far. I wsa starting to think that majority of fans are feeling we are going to lose for sure.
G Star
Spurs Eagle I was thinking the same thing.....lol
Ossie
Rumours are lennon, Defoe and Walker won't be fit. Thanks God for the latter. otherwise why don't we play youngsters like Naughton, Carroll and Townsend - we can always make an excuse out of result then plus good practice and opportunity for those players to step up and be counted. What you say?
Moscovite
By the way Lloris should start.
Moscovite
Ox, if Arsenal are slowly declining how would you describe our progress or lack of it, they are point behind us with this weeks game to come, are in the CL for the 14th succesive season. I honestly believed we were o the brink of taking over as Kings of Nth London" an with 20-30M investment last January we would have achieved it pinching the 3rd place CL spot, but once again we failed to take a punt on the future, jst as we had when failing to build on CL QF success previously. We just lacked the ambition, will, and finanial backing from the ownership to make that final step, it twas ever thus.
Frank
Rather than continually use our injuries as an excuse, if as it appears, we get more than our share on injuries, not only in this, but in successive seasons, perhaps we should be looking at reasons why, are our fitness regimes or training methods causing our problems, or is the truth that we get no more than our rivals, but they cope better than us?
Frank
We're definitely better than Stevenage and Enfield Town.
Love totty
 

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