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What Rotation?

What Rotation?

After we have played pretty much the same team 3 times in 7 days, it has prompted me to question AVB's so called strength, in his ability to rotate a team for 4 competitions.

I am an AVB fan, I think he has way too much pressure on him at the moment (Yes I'm talking to you fans as well...) but I also feel that his strengths are not what we all expected. I was expecting that I would ready Thursday's line up against Maribor and say 'Damn, he's really pulled it out the bag playing Coulibaly there, genius!' and though this has not happened, I don't think it's been a weakness.

It is unavoidable however to deny that our rotation system clearly hasn't worked this year. We are seeing players tired, I feel Vertonghen has really hit unacceptable performance levels due to recent fatigue, not placing any blame on Superman Jan before you get on my back. Gallas is another, there are certainly more.

Off topic, I play 4-2-3-1 on Ultimate Team on FIFA, and those that play the game will know, some positions tire faster than others. We would expect that, Walker, Bale, Lennon, Verts in particular would feel the most strain, and I think we're correct. Position's that don't seem to marry up with real life are CB and CDM. If we had direct replacements for both our CB's and CDM's, would we be significantly better off?

This is a very segregated article, I appreciate, but it's not as simple as saying, this is why we're losing, there is no singular reason, it's a combination of things. I'd like to know whether you agree with the rotation policy and therefore feel our overall squad strength is our weakness this year, or whether AVB has got the rotation wrong and where you would change it and what benefits those changes would reap.

Written by Jimzoaar_The_Yid

Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Date:Wednesday November 14 2012
Time: 11:03AM


though I agree that we havent seem much rotation, is that due to AVB being hamstrung by injuries to so many key players? BAE, Kaboul, Parker, Adebayor and latterly Dembele, Sandro and Livermore have surely restricted his options of swapping things around whilst also retaining a very similar level of quality
14/11/2012 11:07:00
Agree with Ox, you can't rotate a squad ravaged by injury. He would.
Tactically Challenge
14/11/2012 11:08:00
i think walker may not be injured and is doing this to find time to re-invent himself. i noticed when he walked off at city game he was glancing over to see what reception he was getting from his fans. He seems tense and may need a break. i mean i can only assume dont hold me to it.
G Star
14/11/2012 11:13:00
Whilst i agree Super Jan looks well tired... We have far too many injuries at present to rotate. Our squad just isn't good enough!
14/11/2012 11:15:00
we may not agree with a few of his main selections such as Friedel or Gallas, but in both of those cases we have rotated, but we have been so restricted in almost every other area. in reality we only have six defenders fit and recently have only had two senior CMs and one striker for much of the season. the slow starts for both Sig and Dempsey havent helped either
14/11/2012 11:16:00
Agree with everyone else on here....injuries have been the reason he can't do this. He's rotated where he can. It was such a shame we couldn't have won one of our opening three Euro games as then I'm sure we would have had a few kids in against Maribor, and that would have freshened us up for Sunday.
14/11/2012 11:19:00
I lost interest when you compare a computer game to the real thing! Come on! Get real mate, you cannot replicate the real thing on FIFA 13!!!
14/11/2012 11:20:00
I agree, its difficult to rotate with so many injuries, but the right balance must be found. In Tom Carroll, Andros Townsend and Iago Falque we have 3 top quality youngsters just begging to be given a chance in the prem, where I think they can do well and should be rotated in and out, not to mention the ven younger players like ceballos, pritchard and coulibaly etc. who should start to be filtered in. I feel that the problem with vertonghen is more that he is not a natural left back, although I'm sure he is knackered too, and he needs to be put back in the centre where he is best and wants to play, this was highlighted against city too many times.
14/11/2012 11:27:00
14/11/2012 11:28:00
"It is unavoidable however to deny that our rotation system clearly hasn't worked this year." This is clearly a sentence written by an illiterate ..... when I had worked out what I THINK you meant, I disagreed with you; everyone else disagreed with you too, because we've had a lot of injuries. But you made the point you did because you are a numpty who wants to jump on the anti-AVB bandwagon: go back to playing games on your clapped out pc!! COYS!!!
14/11/2012 11:30:00
yeah if your gonna compare a video game to real life at least compare football manager!!! Fifa's manager mode is the biggest load of ***** I've ever seen!
14/11/2012 11:31:00
dont have the squad to rotate. hes deperately trying to get wins under his belt to quieten the section of fans who have ridiculous expectations . If he rotated and we continued to lose he would be under even more pressure. I have never been a fan and think he is a poor manager but we have to give him the season and stop going on that its 4th or bust for him. To match last year with a poorer squad is just delluded.
14/11/2012 11:32:00
Yeah, injuries have pretty much halted any rotation policy, maybe the youngsters should be integrated a bit more, but can AVB take that risk? I can only imagine the folly of abuse AVB would get if we lost playing youngsters when a regular first teamer was available.
14/11/2012 11:35:00
Yo Jizo whats ur Fifa ID
G Star
14/11/2012 11:35:00
jimmy- yid, good post mate :-)
14/11/2012 11:36:00
wiltshirespur - The youngsters you mention may well be "top quality" in the under 21 league and even ok in some cup games against weak teams but there is a VAST difference between the under 21's and the PL, especially the top teams like ManC which have world class players coming out of the ears. Those youngsters are not ready for that.
14/11/2012 11:39:00
Brilliant, for everyone thinking i'm illiterate and think FIFA is the real thing, please, re read the article, as everyone else understood it and also understood that I did not compare it to a video game, I used a video game to demonstrate my point....90% of people answered the question (not accusation) that I posed. Please, feel free to comment on the article if you have the ability to read it properly.... I agree on the injury front, however I dont feel its just there, what of Adebayor and Defoe? That may be a decision in a band of its own at the minute but it's still something of much discussion lately and there doesn't seem to be as much of a 'policy' as we might have expected...
14/11/2012 11:41:00
@1717, perhaps we could have played the youngsters more, but with a manager already fighting to earn a reputation, I can also imagine the stick the media would direct at him if it wasnt an instant success
14/11/2012 11:42:00
Hot_Spur, Carroll was one of the best players on the pitch against Maribor, Townsend has looked threatening every time he comes on the pitch and Falque had a great game against Norwich. Thats how it works, players take steps to the next level when they perform well at the level they are on. Each one of those players have proved to be a decent rotation option with the potential to become a first team player. of course theres a vast difference between youth and senior level, but where do you think every player came from!?!?! if we didn't take a chance on any youth players then no players would be developed at all. I'm not suggesting they should have been dropped straight in against city, but eased in slowly, to see how they operate in the prem. Think about it, if young tom carroll become the new modric without a penny being spent on a modric replacement how good would that be, he certainly played well enough against Maribor! and if Lennon and Bale knew they were being pushed for their places by top youngsters in Falque and Townsend, as well as having them as quality back up that would 1. make the team play better and 2. make our squad larger and stronger. As for the even younger players, they beat the barcelona youth team 4-1 away from home and our U21's are top of the league. Yes theres a difference in class obviously but these are some of the best young players in europe, whereas our first team aint playing well, take a chance, I guarantee you Coulibaly and Pritchard will be future stars.
14/11/2012 11:50:00
@everyone who read the article properly....I agree with you all, injuries have been our downfall, I thought long and hard about including them in the article, but we're not that type of fan. We're not Liverpool fans who consistently bemoan injuries, we are Spurs fans, and we don't bemoan injuries because we know that its part and parcel of the game and that they should be accounted for indirectly by the squad size/strength. Whether AVB got the men he wanted in the summer or not is irrelevant, he has a squad to manage, i'm judging him on how he manages the squad available, and in that light, how do we feel about these rotation policies? Side note: All this talk of Carroll is getting me excited, he is without a doubt our brightest subject and it couldn't be coming in a better position. Also, I think Townsend is over rated by our fans being perfectly honest, bear in mind he's 21 (not far off 22), for me he needs to have done more, I find him to inconsistent...
14/11/2012 12:00:00
wiltshire - Your last two words says it all, "FUTURE STARS", yes Carroll looked ok against Maribor, but that's the point, it was only Maribor. As I said, cup games against weak teams they could be given some time. Falque is not really a youngster in the real sense, he is 22 and yes he did look good against Norwith but again they are a bottom half team. As for "stepping up", yes of course every player came from the under 18's, 19's 21's etc but you don't jump them from the 21's straight into the PL. You send them on loan to a Championship side and bring them through the levels slowly. Putting them from the 21's straight into the PL is a huge risk of destroying their confidence and ruining them. You don't "take a chance" as you put it, with their confidence and therefore their future. Carroll MAY be the next Modric, don't bank on it, very few achieve Modric's capabilities but even if he does he's a very long way from that right now, you don't take the attitude of "he will be the next Modric lets chuck him in the first team".
14/11/2012 12:07:00
wiltshire - The other point is of course that there are thousands of you players all over the planet that show plenty of promise at a youg age but never really develop into top players. They seem to hit a mediocre ceiling. The ones that really hit the top flight are a very small percentage.
14/11/2012 12:10:00
lmfao, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't!
14/11/2012 12:32:00
jabbatheyid - yes exactly, that's the unfortunate position he is in. He's been very unlucky with the loss of Modric and Vdv plus injuries to key players.
14/11/2012 12:35:00
Groundhog day........
14/11/2012 12:57:00
In most games, we've replaced about 20 minutes of possession with about 20 minutes of chasing shadows. It's catching up with us by about the 70 minute mark, leaving players tired and losing concentration. Each game will be a lottery as long as we continue to play in the way we are, and 3 games a week will make it worse.
14/11/2012 12:59:00
Its funny how things change. A few weeks ago everyone was saying we needed to play strong teams in the Europa League and try and win it. Suggestions we might end up playing too many games were derided. Now we are struggling. Yes we have a bad situation with regard to injuries, but injuries happen every season, you have to allow for that. When people look at the squad they need to break it down by position. In some we are strong (DM with Parker, Sandro and Livermore for instance). In others we are very weak, the worst case being the complete lack of cover for Dembele. This means one or two injuries can have an entirely disproportionate effect on the team if they happen to be in positions with no cover. AVB can't rebalance the squad in one transfer window, nor can young players be brought through overnight. The only thing he can do is prioritise games the way Harry used to. Of course as soon as he does that he will be criticised for not trying to win every game.
14/11/2012 13:16:00
@ox- The thing is a lot of the senior players seem to delivering stagnent performances week in, week out. Maybe giving someone like Falque a start would inject the team with some much needed enthusiam and add something to the team thats currently missing. Caulker plays like he wants that spot, and although probably will have to concede it to Kaboul when he returns is letting the manager know that he can be relied on. I 100% agree AVB probably cant risk it, but if results keep going against him i think he'll have to.
14/11/2012 13:35:00
ravaged by injury we have still fielded more different players than any other team in the PL this season
14/11/2012 13:54:00
When I mentioned a couple of weeks back that he could maybe give Coulibaly a run out I got pretty well lambasted because he isn't ready yet, he's too young and that he isn't playing very well etc. I still think we should give him a chance though, he may shine once given the responsibility of playing in the first team.
14/11/2012 14:06:00
Well at least no one can pin THIS on AVB. LOL
14/11/2012 14:11:00
On point jod, great post!!!
14/11/2012 14:11:00
LizardSpur That was happening last season as well so has nothing to do with AVB's techniques on the pitch.
14/11/2012 14:18:00
Just a thought here about the poor performances from a lot of our players. Is it REALLY down to AVB and his tactics, substitutions, and pre match, half time talks. OR could it be down to the fact that they know how much he was "promised" by Levy and ENIC when he came in and those "promises" have not been fulfilled. In other words the team has lost faith in the owners and the chairman NOT AVB. If the workers in a factory were promised X by the owners and it never materialised then the workewrs would feel disgruntled and go out on strike, work to rule or simply lose heart and not work to their full capacity. It must work the same way psycologically with a team, if the owners and chairman promise x amount of money for transfewrs and say the new manager can go for so and so, the players will get a mental lift, but when nothing of the sort happens and they realise they have been cheated as well as the manager then performances WILL drop because it gets inside their heads that the owners don't care about the club and that they (the players) are not worth bothering about, so they either want out or just reflect the owner's attitude which is one of indifference towards the club as far as football is concerned so they end up playing in that fashion. Just a thought mind you, I'm not saying this is THE reason why. It may be a small part of it all or it may be a major part of things or it may just be the deluded ravings of a mad man. LOL
14/11/2012 14:36:00
chrishove123 That is one way to look at it. If anything, AVB probably is the most disgruntled of them all, not having gotten any of his players and having lost two of his most creative ones. We all remember how Chelsea had been wooing Modric last season, as AVB knew he would be perfect. Now that AVB's here, Modric is gone and for whatever reason so is VDV. AVB wanted Willian, Fernandinho, and Moutinho, two of who had expressed the desire to come to Spurs, but nothing materialized. Even Lloris, you look at the situation and you have Friedel who can easily play as #1 for one more year and suddenly Lloris comes in at the end of the window. What club these days rotates keepers? At least in ManU's case, De Gea was the #1 and Lindergaard #2, but circumstances pushed them into rotation. But at Spurs, come the final day of the window we suddenly had 2 top keepers, which I don't think AVB would have planned. It would have made sense to at least try and move Friedel on but with the deal happening so late, there was nothing really to do was there. Hardly an ideal situation for AVB, though who would say no to a top keeper like Lloris? It's Brad staying that is the problem. Also we all remember how he tried to move on Hudd and Dawson, yet Hudd has been starting consecutive games and Dawson also takes part, though occasionally. So is it really AVB's fault for the club's situation? I hardly think it would be fair to cast even half of the blame on him just yet. I personally believe, based on a few interviews and pieces I've read on him, that he is actually quite understanding of the English game but NEEDS his types of players in order to execute his tactics. Without them, AVB will be as lost as the worst of them. He does not come off as the type to bring out the best with what you have, unless what you have can play his system. Our current players cannot play his system 100%, so there is no way we can judge him or the club at the current moment. If it were up to me (i.e. if I were Levy..) I would have cleared out as many of the deadwood as possible and give him players who fit his system. They don't have to cost 30 m pounds but at least stay away from the Dempsey's! Good player in his own right but not for Spurs, and surely not for AVB! Good grief it's no wonder the club is in shambles. But if Levy's statements in the summer are anything to go by, AVB will be backed in future windows. Well, I hope so, for everyone's sake! Now time for bed..
spurring you on
14/11/2012 15:07:00
We`ve used 25 players in the league already this season ,more than any other top flight club .Maybe he`s gone from one extreme to the other & rotating too much .Most has been forced upon him though ,but some have just been odd managerial decisions .
Hugo Lloris comes in ,keeps our only clean sheet & we don`t see him again .
We need a settled system ,settled goalkeeper ,back four ,midfield & strikers .Then you can change 1 or 2 at a time keeping the same system .AVB is still trying to work out the right formula maybe .But this year keep it simple with 4-4-2 ,summer get your players & get them to fit what system AVB wants ,some players just get too stuck in their ways ,it`s human nature .
Too many square pegs round holes at the minute imo ,& he needs to get the players to fit his system ,not the system to fit the players .
big cockeral
14/11/2012 15:11:00
@wiltshirespur - "In Tom Carroll, Andros Townsend and Iago Falque we have 3 top quality youngsters" i want some of whatever you're on... Andros was shocking against Maribor, just about every club he has gone to on loan (Birmingham, Leeds, Millwall) he has failed.
14/11/2012 16:05:00
What a negative load of trash this article is. If we're comparing computer games to real life, in Civilization V I keep getting attacked by Genghis Khan and the mongols, maybe AVB could learn from that too, as it's also fictional.
14/11/2012 16:42:00
As others have pointed out, the article doesnt take into account the options AVB currently has available to him. Rotate with what! We've only had 1 proper striker most of the season, have only 2 good wingers and a depleted central midfield due to injuries. Might need to bring Jenas back if it gets any worse.
14/11/2012 17:21:00
Well at least no one can pin THIS on AVB. LOL

You wanna bet? RagingSpur, you about?
14/11/2012 17:26:00
Guyver HA HA HA HA. that's so funny because in his case it's probably true.
14/11/2012 20:15:00
I think Ceballos, our ex-Barca prodigy, is ready to step up...he's a bit better than Carroll...and I think he can perform admirably for us against Arsenal. I know most of you may think that's at the very least ridiculous at this stage, but hey, the kid is not weak and is full of skill and confidence. Plus, he couldn't do worse than Hudd or Livermore, and would provide much needed possession against Le Arse.
14/11/2012 20:35:00
Get real. Rotation only works when you have quality in depth that only the trophy buying richboys can afford. Having said that our squad was/is more than good enough to have qualified early in the EL had AVB got the performances right. He didn't and has now had to play the same players in a downward spiral of energy and confidence. If they dig in and get a result at the Emirates things might change but otherwise we're fu(ked for this season. Pessimistic? Negative? Unsupportive? Or realistic and pragmatic.? I just can't help feeling that AVB has tried to fit players to his system rather than fitting a system to the strength of the players.
Love totty
14/11/2012 21:10:00
did someone mention coulibaly?
14/11/2012 21:36:00
we're missing a number 10 - I think modric leaving has been eased greatly by the dembele signing, but rafa's departure has left us wanting...sig and dempsey are great players, I just hope their slow starts haven't ruined their spurs careers.
14/11/2012 22:07:00
jacobslad I did as well as someone else. Great link
14/11/2012 22:49:00
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