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Arsenal vs. Tottenham Hotspur.

Perhaps people are making too much of supposed crisis at both North London clubs, but it is clear that neither side are playing anywhere near to their expected standards.

7th playing 8th, is hardly what either side would have hoped for after eleven games and in truth it is hard to pick with of the teams is struggling more. Arsenal seem to be finding their shooting boots, but defensively they look a mess. Spurs have yet to manage a full 90 minutes of good football and seem to be anything from inept to excellent in the space of 45 minutes, which is a huge frustration.

Arsenal started the season with what appeared to be a solid defensive unit under the new stewardship of Steve Bould, but as the season has progressed, their defence has declined into a generous and witless bunch, that seem riddled with individual errors and also struggle to work as a unit. Thomas Vermaelen has again struggled with consistency, whilst Andre Santos simply doesn't look like a defender. Wenger will hope to have Wojciech Szczesny back in goal for the hapless Vito Mannone, but I also feel this defence isn't really helped by having three technically excellent, but hardly 'Dogs of War' midfielders in front of them. There has been a suggestion that M. Wenger will adopt a three man defensive line-up, but is that an even bigger risk, when so many players have been away on international duty and preparation has been so limited?

For every Arsenal problem, Spurs seem to have just as many. A long line of injuries to key players and a team that as yet haven't grasped the complexities of AVB game plan and seem too be getting more confused by the minute. In our managers defence, he wasn't allowed or able to bring in his main summer targets and also have never had a full strength squad to call upon, so it is harsh to be overly critical of a man who seems to have definite ideas, but perhaps doesn't have the players at his disposal to implement them. Based on that if he better to revert back to a way of playing that we know his players understand and have achieved success with?

Of course that formation hardly brought us glory at The Emirates last season as we grabbed inglorious defeat from the jaws of a memorable victory. The capitulation of that 5-2 defeat still haunts many, but I hope the Tottenham players who played that day will use the experience to gain some revenge and heap more pressure of our beloved neighbours. I have a feeling that Arsenal are struggling for confidence at home, with two wins and two draws from their five games, but aside from a 6-1 thrashing of Southampton, there hasn't been much to boast about. As usual, there is plenty of possession, but also a lack of cutting edge and also a fragility at the back that Wenger simply doesn't seem able to sort. Though Arsenal can beat anyone on their day, you also feel more than ever that if you take the game to them, you have a great chance of rolling them over.

The big question is, whether Spurs can raise that tempo to force Arsenal back and to make mistakes, equally if we play too offensively are we leaving ourselves vulnerable to a quick Arsenal attack and also their movement in midfield? I would like to see AVB go with both Defoe (if fit) and Adebayor and the difference between winning or losing this might well be who can control the middle of the pitch. Will Spurs playing two wide men stretch Arsenal or will we be over-run in the middle if we play two strikers and two wingers? As is often the case, it will all depend on which team shows up and can force their will on the other side. To be honest, I have absolutely no idea which team, if either that will be.

I have a feeling that both managers would take a draw here. Not losing might well be the key to at least not cranking the pressure up another notch. You do however feel that Spurs could take a narrow away defeat better than Arsenal take a home one. However flimsy an excuse, could it be easier to excuse losing with so many key injuries and so early in a managers reign than for a team that seem to be slowly but surely losing pace with the teams that they competed with for so long to slide further away from the top four places, let alone the top of the table...




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Friday November 16 2012

Time: 10:12AM

Your Comments

COYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
COYS_TSB
first! gonna be a very tough game for us. We need to shut down Cazorla. i feel he is the key for them!
silver_inca
nearly..
silver_inca
Arsenal has enough firepower to rip us to pieces if we adopt the same defensive minded approach we did against City. If we go defensive I cannot see us scoring, but I can see Arsenal scoring a few and go for a comfortable win. Put Defoe and Adebayor in and with a good balance in attacking and defending we can win this game.
Jables
Got to be a three man midfield IMO with Ade on his own up top. The middle of the park is key here alongside creating 1 v 1's on the wings. Stick to your guns Andre and play 4-2-3-1, a point will do this weekend
nzyido
Sandro is going to boss Cazorla! No doubt about that.
Tactically Challenge
Guys, we are 3/1 with bookies. They are less than double money (10/11). What win are you talking about? Let's be realistic and just HOPE for the draw. Anything else in our favour will come as a surprise bonus. Don't get me wrong I'll back Spurs winning this fixture in any other circumstances but currently looking at all things combined I just don't see what exactly can happen (or how badly they should really be playing) so we can get away with something from that match. In fact I'd be happy if we avoid embarrassment. Good thing is tomorrow won't decide anything. The return fixture is much more important so let's hope our revenge will be served cold. As for tomorrow in the words of Ray Wilkins I hope we'll stay on our feet. COYS!
Moscovite
If we wanna play to win we'll need 2 strikers on the pitch, if he's going to play to not lose then he'll go 4-2-3-1. Come on AVB, let see a bit of the buckaneering Spurs of old. I'm getting tired of having the same moans come Monday morning.
coys1717
Mounting injuries (not that that is an excuse), a manager who doesn't know what he is doing and who in my opinion is starting to lose the dressing room, un motivated players (Bale seemed dis- interested last week and unwilling to carry out his defensive duties), I can only see us getting a hammering here. Apologies for the pessimism but I've seen it all before with Tottenham and the signs are there that we are heading into crisis.
jonathan01
If Wenger has half a brain, he should throw Walnutt and Podolski at us on the wings, with Cazorla picking out passes through the middle. What do we have to throw back at them? We have the wingers, but we have no Cazorla. So I totally understand some peoples' call for Ade + Defoe - to try to readdress the balance. But I cannot see AVB doing it. A tough old game, and we will share 4-6 goals I believe, one way or another.
TonyRich
Nice to see AussieYido and jonathon01 are the thick Spurs fans ruining having a constructable conversation with my smarter Spurs fans, Crisis? You're talking nonsense, you genuinely have no idea, so keep your mouth shut.
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
Jimzoaar, I'm just expressing my opinion of the way I see things. I think that is the purpose of this site. I apologise if my opinions don't agree with yours.
jonathan01
Jimzoar_the_Yid- what are you the thought police? just because you don't agree with someone they should not speak? why not reason with them if you are so certain your opinion is the correct one then after a little persuation I'm sure you'll win them round...stiffling debate is what tyrants do!
shedboy2
Now onto the game, we're playing like stoke at the moment so why not go the whole hog....put Daws on and let him and Thud pump long balls up to Ade and Dempsey (or defoe for knock downs), Caulker, Verts and Daws up for all the set pieces along with Bale and Ade...just keep it off the deck and we might win!
shedboy2
No, i am not. But people with less intelligence than most (jonathon and aussie) think that saying 'its my opinion' is okay, its not, saying the dressing room is unsettled, how is that opinion? Stop playing the opinion card when you have blatantly lied. Noone knows if the dressing room is unsettled, so yes jonathon, you are 100% factually wrong!
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
4-5-1 Lennon, Huddlestone, Sandro, Carrol and Bale across the middle. The flanks can push up and support Ade up top. Bringing Defoe on later is an option. I have a feeling they will play 4-2-3-1, but with Wenger you never know...he loves mixing it up and chucking players in to random spots.
SpursOne2
10 out of 10 Jimzoaar-The-Yid - Calling people thick isn't going to win you any points thou ha.
SpursOne2
Derby, more than three points ? No thats the maximum points you can get from this game, we could get one or none, the only other two options available, that forums had some hits? Never enjoy these games. No view on the formation, no view on who should be in goal and no view on who plays, really don't care, just go and WIN IT.
spu 4 life
Jimz I'm afraid the papers have reported dressing room uproar! Lloris is refusing to eat any croissants until he gets playing time and actually Big Moussa, Kaboom,Bae and Parker are actually faking injury and prefer to be chilling in the stands and booing with the rest of the ****s at the lane! So I think Jonathan has a point don't u?
Mix26
@Mix26 I heard that too, in fact, I think Rupert Murdoch himself said that AVB's completely lost the dressing room and AVB's secretly planning to try a new haircut to get us the wins!
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
I'm ****ting it. Without Dembele we just have nothing in the middle. Hudd is just so slow and Carroll too inexperienced to be dropped into this one I think. Also who plays CAM? Neither Dempsey nor Siggy has set the world on fire. I don't envy AVB's task picking the team tomorrow.
Kes80
I heard that AVB is bring is Chelsea rain mack for this game!
Tactically Challenge
Jonathan & Aussie... Glass half empty? ...I still hope. Trust AVB to be an intelligent manager. Injuries and lack of players bought have limited us so far. If only we had Tevez, Aguero, Dzeko & Balotelli as our strikers.... Or van Persie, Rooney, Hernandez & Wellbeck... But we don't, we've got Ade & Defoe. United have 4 top wingers. We've only got 2. Chelsea have 4 world class attacking players. We've got 2.
ledders77
Mix haha
ledders77
I don't think we did an awful lot wrong last week against City. Ok he probably should have played Siggy instead of Dempsey but if our 'better' players i.e. Bale & Lennon could have retained the ball we probably wouldve won. Lennon in particular was awful but of course our ever loyal fans will blame the manager instead of actual individual bad performances. Now tomorrow, time for Hugo! I would play: LLoris - Naughton, Gallas, Caulker, Verts - Sandro, Thudd, Bale, Siggy, Lennon - Ade. The epmhasis needs to be on ball retention and is vitally important that Carzola & Wilshere are not given any room to play. Spurs to steal it 2-1 late on.
1984Spurs
*By attackers I meant attacking mids, not strikers
ledders77
Agree with ur team there 1984. Please LLORIS!!! Cazorla and Wilshere will do a lot of the ball retention I'm afraid, both quality players. I'll be happy with a draw.
ledders77
Ledders - Harry got by on Defoe and Ade didn't he? Can people stop making excuses. The performances are not good enough because a) the manager's tactics are not working - exposing Walker, forcing Sandro into a futile fight, giving Bale nothing to aim for, leaving Siggy/Dempsey forlorn, b) the manager is not instilling enough passion, team ethic into the performances, c) the sometimes bizarre timing and choice of substitutions, d) the bewildering treatment of some players - Lloris, Hudd, Daws. All teams have injuries and they all manage. Worse of all, AVB is not crouching any more. I am being overly harsh, I know. But there is truth in much of that. We have Arsenal, West Ham, then Liverpool. A tricky trio of fixtures that could lead to an unfortunate run unless AVB delivers. Come on AVB
TonyRich
Yes, Dembele is a big miss and still having too many players out to injury, but, the glass is half full. COYS!
mountainyid
@1984, nice team, even though I haven't been as bemused as other fans at Lloris' absence, I think this is a good game for him to go into. I also whole-heartedly agree with the MC assessment, it was Lennon's worst game by a mile this year, he'll know it, he comes across as being very pro (for such a chav anyway). Some fans don't seem to see the difference between a manager not motivating the team, and players simply not being good enough. Looking further into it, is Lennon really good enough to be our starting winger even if we reach our CL/title challenging aspirations? It would be one of the first positions I got a new player in (from a full strength squad) and I really rate Lennon. its just a shame fans dont see that, and whats more they shout their stupid mouths of at matches and make our manager do even worse, sometimes i wonder....
Jimzoaar_The_Yid

..................................DEFOE.....................................
................................................................................
.......BALE.................ADEBAYOR.................LENNON....
................................................................................
...................VERTS....................SANDRO..................
................................................................................
.....NAUGHTON......CAULKER...GALLAS......WALKER......
...............................................................................
.................................LLORIS...................................

.....starting X1 for Le Arse....

Naughton in at the deep end against Walcott..

Verts holding the midfield with Sandro and helping out the back four, but allowing for Verts to push Bale, Ade, Lennon and Defoe up the pitch and pass them into the game more.....Verts can push on with the best of them..... i think he would be a better DM that pushes on than a CM or LB....

Ade and Defoe play together... Dempsey is proving to be a lost cause at the moment, especially when we could have little and large playing and trying to get the goals....
Yidmarks
The pressure really will be on AVB if we are beaten easily. I think it would be 4 defeats in the last 5...
mattspurs1982
Why's it OK to have a go at the players but not the manager? yeah lets slate Thud or Lennon or Defoe players that have actually done well for Spurs but not the one bloke who's done f all....oh no to criticise AVB is heresy.....people have a right to their opinion, just telling them to shut up because you don't like it is ignorant. Hopefully AVB will start making great managerial calls and win everyone over....
shedboy2
Shedboy - yep Gallas at right back! Demspey to play for 90 mins! Those sort of great managerial calls??
mattspurs1982
If Lloris doesn't start then I'll have had enough of AvB.
Tottenham Hotcore
Jimzoaar, I wasn't stating facts, just an opinion. I can see that what happened at Chelsea is starting to happen at Spurs. I really hope I am proved wrong - I'm just stating what I feel
jonathan01
jonathon, well say that and not what you did say, because what you did say was an incorrect fact and will always get picked up on? @shedboy/jonathon, im really not anti people sharing their opinion, I probably am more pessimistic than both of you combined deep down, but my view is that this is a place i'd check if i was a player/manager, and some people on here dont seem to get the difference between criticism and constructive criticism, noone wants to hear critics, we get enough of those from the papers! Lets unite as a fan base, and constructively come up with idea's to develop the team, then if we keep failing we can blame AVB for not listening, but why are you blaming a manager 11 games into a year?! Your just living up to the 'fickle football fan' stereotype, lets have a bit more about us....
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
I don't think I am being fickle at all. I saw AVB make mistake after mistake at Chelsea and I see him doing the same at Spurs. I am always 100% behind the team at games and I use this site to say what I think. I hope AVB turns out to be a success but I don't think he will get the support of either the players or the chairman
jonathan01
Yidmarks, love that team. Genius!
Tactically Challenge
@jonathon, so why would you make me assume your an a**hole from your first comment, compare your three, the first is drastically difference...
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
I believe the players at Chelsea refused to embrace AVB's style of play. If the spurs players do the same, we will get the same result. Old dogs new tricks and all that!
mountainyid
@moutnainyid, you've certainly hit a sore spot there, anyone else see Drogba, Fat Frank or Di**head John getting much game time? I don't think so, Abramhovich told the Chelsea players they were the reason for his sacking and that he wouldn't stand for it again, anyone care to reconsider their stance....
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
Jimzoaar, jonathan didnt say it was a fact, all what he said was his opinion, surely that's obvious, just like everything you say about AVB is your opinion. I think you placing a lil too much importance on this site,it's jus a fan forum where we share opinions good or bad, not our job to develop ideas. AVB has been in professional football longer than anyone on this site, and he has to believe in his way of doing things, he aint gonna come into a fan site for ideas on how to do his job.
Ossie
Freidel--Walker--Gallas--Caulker--Vertonghen--Lennon--Sandro--Huud--Bale--Dempsey--Ade. What are the chances of the same XI being so poor back-to-back??
yiddyboy
@ossie, I completely agree with everything you've said, but two main responses. Firstly, that doesn't stop someone from portraying fact as opinion to make it sound how they want, he said 'a manager who doesn't know what he is doing and who in my opinion is starting to lose the dressing room'<
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
Although I would go with! ...............................ADEBAYOR................................. ................................................................................ .......BALE.........CARROLL........SIGGY...........LENNON.... ................................................................................ ..................................SANDRO.................................. ................................................................................ NAUGHTON......CAULKER.......VERTONGHEN......WALKER ................................................................................ ...................................LLORIS...................................
yiddyboy
TEST
what_sux
Is this back to normal?
what_sux
Yidmarks - spot on with that formation - just hope he plays it!
silver_inca
When is Benny due back!??!?
mattspurs1982
Jimzoaar, in future I will prefice everything with "in my opinion" just to be clear. However I did think that this site was for the purpose of stating opinions and therefore I didn't think it was necassary. One thing I will not do though is revert to name calling which is not what this site is about. COYS
jonathan01
thank you TACTICALLY....

watch Verts eager to push on in most games... but having to get back..

use Naughton/BAE in that position and let Verts Defend and Attack and be able to play off ADE and BALE also...
Yidmarks
You did pref-ice it with in your opinion, it was not an opinion, it was fact, and it was wrong, that's all im trying to make you understand, then we can discuss AVB's hair due in greater depth....
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
Does anyone else feel that Friedel should watch 'Escape to Victory' and take particular notice with the scene when they break the goalkeepers arm!!
yiddyboy
Jimzoaar- you're embarassing yourself mate...how could it be fact if it was wrong? jonathan01 you're right to rise above it....name calling is very childish. I wonder what Lennon would think after reading the site? On the other hand I hope AVB does, at least that way he would have some understanding of the issues he needs to address....
shedboy2
Yiddyboy, if watching movies will keep Friedel away from playing I'm ready to rent him my entire DVD collection (for free).
Moscovite
Shedboy - not at all, it is FACT that some things are FACT, what are you trying to say that everything can be opinionated? It can't, you're 100% FACTUALLY WRONG. I'd rather talk to the intelligent fans who talk about a way forward instead of sulking with 'Our managers not good enough after 11 games get rid now'. Smartass.
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
You know what irritates me the most? With all our problems and what not..we'd still give this derby a decent shot had any of the above suggested formations materialised. But comes the time and you know 100% that AVB will put out his tried and incompetent scheme (Dempsey, Friedel, one striker, you know the rest..) which is never going to work and then our mood will get ruined instantly even before the match itself begins. Mark my words. That's exactly what's gonna happen and it sucks big time.
Moscovite
Nowhere did i say get rid of now. Get your FACTS right Jimzoaar!
jonathan01
JtY- that's not what I'm saying....re-read my post....comprehension eh. Moscovite- I'm not an AVB fan but I do think on this one he has his hands tied a bit on the starting line up, you can justify just about any starting line up (except Gallas at RB lol)....the key for me will be how he reacts as the game unfolds...
shedboy2
jonathon - i insinuated it, at least I didnt dress it up as opinion when it clearly weren't.... Big cockeral -- Do you not get fed up with hearing whining? Im not talking about constructive criticism, i'm talking about genuine whining. And for the record....i'm 6ft 5.
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
Big game. Goons are favourites having the Home advantage and I think we are a little worse off in terms of injuries with ours having a bigger impact on the core of our side and playing style. Saying that I don't get any fan who is giving up on this game already. I thought we'd get spanked against Chelsea and City with the players we had out yet in both games we competed far better than I would have expected. The important thing is to back the side but also remember no one is going inot this game expecting a win due to our injury list so lets have a little perspective after the game if we don't get one.
MJBSpur
Moscovite - took the words right out of my mouth. I'd at least like us to have a go than try not to lose
mattspurs1982
BC- I won't go in for ridiculing a fellow fan....the thing that strikes me though is the amount of people trying surpress any discussion on AVB. They are not debating his merits but just trying to shout down other people...I've not really come across that on here before???
shedboy2
BC - Spot on mate, I agree with most of those, I suppose in the most basic sense I think of this as 'What would you actually say if AVB sat at a table and listened?' and it would be vastly different from what people say. People moan at me for talking to other fans like *****? they're talking to our players/manager like it and I won't stand for it, I'll stick up for them, because people like that get a kick out of criticising someone/something that cannot defend themselves, its borderline pathetic really. But you're right, Friedel in for Gallas anyday.... ;)
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
For me it's still early days to discuss a managers future and I don't feel he has had a decent crack of the whip. We lost Modric and VDV, whom both we have not really replaced like for like. Ade has just returned from injury and we still have Dembele, Parker, Kaboul, Benny out due to injury, all 1st team players. Wait and see what the New Year brings ;)
mountainyid
Mix, what are you saying? I've seen more unrest in a tramp, crawling with flees. Big C you gave a score 4-1, but never mentioned the full time score?
spu 4 life
shedboy, i did re-read your post, hence why I quoted it in my comment. I am also correct, still. many thanks.
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
I genuinely believe that AVB has a unique chance to silence his critics (myself included) even we'll lose tomorrow. Everyone agrees that expectations are low. He can use this to his advantage by choosing right tactics or making proper substitutions. It's about time he impresses us with his tactical approach to the game (given the limited resources available). In the end result may not be important as long as he tries to play on opponent's weaknesses (and succeeds) or exploit our strengths to the maximum. The only thing that fans will NOT forgive him is if he's going to repeat the same clueless boring routine observed in the City game (or indeed against Wigan a week before). I know it's just another game but the choice is very yours, Andre.
Moscovite
Big-C, I take on board what you're saying, being brutally honest, I can't have much input on that, I'm 19, and with that comes naivety and also, a lack of bad experiences in my life as a whole. I caught wind of the Berba stuff, and it stunk, i hated that, but forever loved him as a player, as im sure you did. Interestingly, and this really is interesting, How old are you Big C? The reason i ask is that money has driven the changes you suggest, the transfers etc, which as we know is a massive part of the game now which it didn't used to be. I love Dawson, genuinely to pieces, for pretty much 1 proper season i've seen of him, but heres where maybe ive been born into a different envrionment. I hate to say it, i really do, but sometimes you have to cut some loveable characters to progress and do things, compaines get taken over every day and 11-12 MD's who helped the company start and were pally with the Owner get sacked because they simply aren't necessary and dont contibute to the positive direction of said company. It's a very difficult one, but there are still some gems as you say, my beloved Dawson, Bale another, even players like Kaboul and Lennon, in particular would you believe BAE's honesty in why he plays the game. Every plays the 'But I am different' card, but Spurs genuinely are, and I hate to say it, so are Arsenal. We EARN our developments unlike chavski and city scum. We are different, we CAN compete with a 35,000 stadium, which is why i get so frustrated when fans say, honestly, stupid things about our players and in particular a manager only 11 games into the season.
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
bc, did you just swallow a sociology book. Very eloquent and well put. It's a shame really the way players leave on bad terms sometimes, I would have loved Berbatov to want a return to Spurs (and at a bargain price), but I think him and levy didn't quite hit it off!
mountainyid
Mix26 great one about abour our players booing us from the stands. You made my day. thank you.
noone
Big C - I appreciate that, I do get frustrated with supporters, weve won one cup since ive followed spurs and i'd die for us to win a league, i feel like some fans saw the best of us and so are hating us at a dry spell. Its not the players fault they earn that much and it wont make them play any better. Fight their corner with me Big C!!
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
big c..its so obvious stop talking to your self!
jacobslad
Lets not forget who we are playing here..... there's honour at stake! (especially after the 5-2.) I am going for a 2-1 win, let's get some passion back. COYS!
Cairnside Spur
Considering the cycle of the last 2 decades - new manager...lose a few games...fans get on managers back...press pick us on this and get on his back too...players see an easy way to defect blame from themselves...manager loses dressing room...press scrutinise managers every breath...manager sacked - and seeing how it gets us nowhere does no one think that maybe, just for a change it might be worth having a real good go at backing a manager and seeing where that gets us. I mean results aren't going to get worse by backing him and if you think they are going to get better but getting on his back your a fecking idiot so why not have a go at being a SUPPORTER. I mean are those idiots that boo at the lane proud that our players now perform better and more freely away from home?
MJBSpur
Best we can probably hope for is a draw given all the injuries but the future will be a lot brighter once we get all our injured players back. Cannot wait for that to happen. Also hopefully some intelligent investing in January and maybe just maybe we might have a chance at 4th this season!
El Jefe
Big C - I wholeheartedly agree with that list of players. BUt as for the first point, I agree, I would demand a refund at a gig because that's what kind of person I am, and forgive me for judging, but you come across as someone who would kick up a fuss about what your entitled to. So why isn't everyone else? If everyone else was, then we could have boycotted a lot of the changes in football before they became a part of the game. Over the last 10-15 years if supporters had genuine passion for keeping this crap out of the game, then they would have done something, but unfortunately its us as the minority that suffer.
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
Big C - Im not protecting them against anything other than lies? I'm completely with you on the waitresses/nurses, but I put it to you again, is it the footballer's giving them stick and not themselves? No, it's we fans who choose to argue the toss over a £4 burgrer with a 16 yr old McDonalds worker, but not do ANYTHIING to the club/players who dont give a toss about the £50 sky subscription we have, as well as the £800 we spent on a season ticket and the £45 we spend on a shirt every year! I also like your last idea, really would be touching to see that happen, but I would ask, you spoke of players like Bale et al who are top professionals, would they be immune to this? Considering they still don't give anything monetary back (Excluding the odd charity work, often compulsory in their contract) why do we still praise them so highly?
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
knowing us we will go 1 up and loose.
123spurs
123 - almost guaranteed because we'll play 5 in midfield with no playmaker so the Arse will probably control the game and we will be toothless.
MrSpurs
moan moan moan, lose lose lose, AVB out, Players want to lose... blah blah blah!!! We are spurs and on our day can beat anyone. Got hammered at old trafford didn't we!!!!! FFS stop being so feckin pessimistic!!
woodyn17
Woodyn17 - Wigan at home?
MrSpurs
We had a off day!!! Are you saying you cannot lose to a lower team every now and then? Wigan played well and we were poor. Doesn't mean we will lose every game though does it pal!!
woodyn17
Woddyn I love ya ma boy! What would be your approach to the game team selection/formation wise?
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
4 out 5 counts for "every" for me.
Moscovite
Some great, points Big C, as normal. Jimzoaar, keep posing how you were chatting to Big C and not like earlier mate, no need to get all wound up at fellow yids...well maybe some...,;)
Tottenham Hotcore
its frustrating TH, I'ts not as much my passion for Spurs as you may think, more the belief in our fans. I find every clubs' fanbase have a majority group, and I think ours are brilliant, I really rate Spurs fans, they're fair and rational, which is not what you can say about most fans. But when they turn their back on a manager 11 games in, I wonder where we will end up.....
Jimzoaar_The_Yid
You know as well as I do that Losing to Wigan is not a one off don't make me go through the ***** results and performances one by one.
MrSpurs
MrSpurs, how would you play it?
ItalianYiddo
No idea mate I'm not a multi millionaire premier league manager but AVB is supposedly.
MrSpurs
No, none of us are, but if you had to pick a strategy for tomorrow what would it be?
ItalianYiddo
IY - WIN!
El Jefe
4-4-2 Lloris in goal; Sandro & Huddlestone; Ade & Defoe; usual wide men with Vert & caulker.
MrSpurs
Kidnkapp Wenger!
El Jefe
Kidnapp even!
El Jefe
So an all guns blazing stratergy MrSpurs. Can you just remind me when it was the last time Ferguson, Wenger, Mancini and Mourinho applied that stratergy away from home against a top side? When was the last time Man U have come to the Lane playing 442?
ItalianYiddo
Lloris Walker Gallas Caulker Vertonghen Sandro Carroll Lennon Adebayor Bale. Defoe
sadaq
IY.... Again I don't know but I'm not the manager its not my job. AVB will spend all week on it, create a 100 page dossier, watch endless DVDs of the opposition and then probably end up playing Defoe up front on his own then swap him for Ade because rather than pick a formation for the players available he will pick players to fit his 4-5-1.
MrSpurs
Friedel, Walker, Caulker, Gallas, Vertonghen, Sandro, Dempsey, Lennon, Bale, Ade and Defoe. Go for it, nothing to lose!
El Jefe
There is the type of manager that doesn't write dossiers, doesn't bother to study the opposition and tells the players to go and enjoy themselves. Trouble is there is always a chance you are going to get thumped 5-2.
ItalianYiddo
Actually scrap that, I would go 4-3-3, with Sandro, Hudd and Demps in central midfield, Bale LW, Ade RW and Defoe up top.
El Jefe
My team: Llloris, Naughton, Caulker, Vertonghen, Walker, Sandro, Huddlestone, Bale, Lennon, Dempsey, Adebayor. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
Would expect Bale and Ade to tuck into midfield and help when we do not have the ball but would give them freedom to move about when we do! Still risky but if we want to win I think given what is available that would be our strongest team. Just because Ade would technically be on the right would not expect him to play as a conventional winger, more a right sided forward which I think he is perfectly capable of doing.
El Jefe
IY - or win 3-2......"to dare is to do" but AVB wouldn't know that because that isn't in the level 2 official FIFA coaching manual is it!
MrSpurs
MrSpurs, very few successful team adopt the "to dare is to do" strategy away from home. How many games do Man U, City, Chelsea and Arsenal lose at home? We should be aiming for a point, with Ade, Bale and at some stage Defoe we have every chance of getting all three. Go 442 and we'll end up with none.
ItalianYiddo
IY - we're not just any club our selling point is our tradition, our style and the way in which we try to play football - it's Tottenham Hotspurs identity. So I disagree we should go there aiming for a point against an inconsistent Arse we should go there to win - being a Spurs fan you should know we can't sit on a lead and see a game out its not how we play and we certainly don't gave those players at our disposal at the moment. The players pick the system you can pick the system then fit the players in.
MrSpurs
THFC Walker,Caulker,Verts and Naughton, an average age of under 23, I think that would be a first for a back four in the premier league. Gallas I think is selected because he organises the back line. I think thats important.
matt hoten
I'd like to see Ade behind Defoe, but only if Ade is prepared to do more defensive work than he is accustomed to. We don't want too many gaps in midfield against Arsenal away.
Guyver
thfc, Like you, I'd have Dawson ahead of Gallas, especially that Dawson (from recent appearances) seems to have added to his game, i.e., less hoofing and more accurate passing, combined with his usual 'throw his body on the line' for Spurs. But I am fairly certain Gallas will start partly because his 'alleged' experience, his 'alleged' leadership, his 'alleged' organisational skills but mostly because AB is stubburn in his selections and that Gallas playing against his old club. Similarly, I m getting a little irked by the Lloris situation. It seems that with Friedel we are trying to get a few more miles out of a worn/balding tyre!!. Clearly the concensus on this forum (team selection) most include Lloris in their starting line up.

As for the game tomorrow, I would really prefer to see a change in attitude and approach by the team. I'd rather see us lose whilst trying and and giving it our all than lose by not turning up. We need a 90 mins performance and better tactical management. Despite our injury problems, I feel the players at our disposal are quite capable of producing a performance that typifies the Spurs way. Apart from against Lazio and Maribor, the Spurs way has been missing. In my opinion it is AVB's man-management and reserved approach that is holding us back. Hope he proves me wrong tomorrow. COYS!
Critical_Spur
I must admit, sadly, that I don´t expect a good result for us tomorrow. We have marched to the Emirates with better players and better hopes lately. Wha hurts me most is the complete lack of creativity in our midfield without Dembele. For me, given our conditions, I would even play Lloris, Naughton, Dawson, Caulker, Vertonghem, Sandro, Huddlestone, Bale, Carroll, Falque and Adebayor only to see if it works because I´m fed up of watching Lennon and Dempsey completely absent from last matches. They could also be the case for intelligent subs on 2nd half, along with Defoe.
AlexSpur
Well, what the heck. Last time we visited Emirates Arsenal was on shambles and we were quality and depth all over the pitch and bench. Everone here knows hot it ended and how the result made Arsenal revive. Who knows if it is not our turn to feel it ??
AlexSpur
#Jimzoaar_The_Yid: Mate, I've ranted a few times here at what I've thought to be unfair comments ... but you go too far. 1: 90%+ people here are Spurs fans, so rant on, but have some respect (and yes, I even urge you to extend that to Big C! -- Just kidding Big Man, you are actually talking a bit of sense these days!) 2: You have to respect other people's opinions, no matter how much they oppose your own, so the name calling is out of order (unless someone starts on you first -- then its game on!). 3) I'm sorry to say this, but you are responsible for the worst article I've read since I joined here: See AVB rotation -- Fifa computer game! -- if anyone hasn't read that!(although I don't recommend it seeing as how we have used more players than anyone else ... and with injuries to boot!). Finally, Jimmy Boy, save your 'passion'/insults/opinions/whatever you wanna call it for match days, when you see the real retarded, hypocritical, knee-jerk responses coming. COYS ... PS Again, agree with Big C (I HATE typing those words) that the Arse should beat us, but 2-1 for me. Hope I'm wrong, give AVB a chance, and, as always, love my team ... COYS!!
SpursEagle
#thfc1882whl -- Totally agree with your negative comment -- comment! I ALWAYS predict us to lose this because we didn't win it for so damn long -- I guess bad habits are hard to break! Oh, and I like your team. Friedel/Lloris? I'm happy with either selection. I have faith in Brad, but will get behind Hugo if he is selected. No worries about the fans, as its THE derby, and we are playing at the 'Church' (some praise allowed!) -- Used to be known as the Library, but we've usuped that title at home in the league this season ...COYS!
SpursEagle
A lively 3 - 3 draw with Ade scoring 2 goals. COYS!!!
MalaysiaSpur
Jimzoaar_the_yid, Sorry but I do not by this we are in transition period, AVB has absolutely no excuses at all he has no choice but to hit the ground running .. yes we lost some good/great players in King VDV & Modric however, So you now get personal and call me thick as it is plain to see that AVB is constantly making the same mistakes ... AVB was quoted as being stubborn in team selection it was on an article via the spurs website, it is correctly summing him up .. AVB is the person who selects the team AVB who is the person who others have said is slowly starting to lose the dressing room ... his ethos maybe is not coming across well with the players when he was appointed loads of Chelsea fans were mocking us! Jonathan01 ... never say sorry for having no rose tinted glasses on ... as a Spurs Supporter you have a right to express your opinion ... as much as I disliked Redknapp at the end, I never went into games fearing defeat when the predictable substitutions were made ... for all his faults Redknapp, did do well just the flirting with england and the media bull did it for me completely.
E17YID
Jimzoaar_the_yid, Sorry but I do not by this we are in transition period, AVB has absolutely no excuses at all he has no choice but to hit the ground running .. yes we lost some good/great players in King VDV & Modric however, So you now get personal and call me thick as it is plain to see that AVB is constantly making the same mistakes ... AVB was quoted as being stubborn in team selection it was on an article via the spurs website, it is correctly summing him up .. AVB is the person who selects the team AVB who is the person who others have said is slowly starting to lose the dressing room ... his ethos maybe is not coming across well with the players when he was appointed loads of Chelsea fans were mocking us! Jonathan01 ... never say sorry for having no rose tinted glasses on ... as a Spurs Supporter you have a right to express your opinion ... as much as I disliked Redknapp at the end, I never went into games fearing defeat when the predictable substitutions were made ... for all his faults Redknapp, did do well just the flirting with england and the media bull did it for me completely.
E17YID
Jimzoaar, so your 19, and were thick, you need a reality check when I was a KID, like you yeah will call you a KID for your childish outbursts, I like BC, grew up seein gthe Villa Ossie and hoodle from early 81/2, the point you seem to miss with AVB and you are free to defend him to the hilt is the fact he is making the same errors week in week out losing to wigan 1-0 is not acceptable for a team of THFC stature yes I know you have bad days at the office, but his tactical decisions do leave a lot to be desired taking a striker off when chasing the game trying to defend a 1 goal lead etc ... I know for a fact Aaron Lennon does view this forum his Aunt works at a North London Prison I used to work at Cynthia Lennon, and she stated he did come on this site. but obviously your 19, so have every right to call others THICK and A$$holes just because views differ ... predict the subs he will make or team he will select that will be the same as per out of shape out of position will persist with out of form players will not play the better player ie Lloris over Friedel. ... AVB, will get support but when he is making the same mistake week in week out he has every right to be questioned just like HR was. 11 games in and repeating same mistakes HMMMMMMM, exaclt like he did at Chelsea you have to question if his tactical ethos is up to the EPL standards no disrepects but Porto would not do the treble here in the EPL.
E17YID
Jimzoaar, so your 19, and were thick, you need a reality check when I was a KID, like you yeah will call you a KID for your childish outbursts, I like BC, grew up seein gthe Villa Ossie and hoodle from early 81/2, the point you seem to miss with AVB and you are free to defend him to the hilt is the fact he is making the same errors week in week out losing to wigan 1-0 is not acceptable for a team of THFC stature yes I know you have bad days at the office, but his tactical decisions do leave a lot to be desired taking a striker off when chasing the game trying to defend a 1 goal lead etc ... I know for a fact Aaron Lennon does view this forum his Aunt works at a North London Prison I used to work at Cynthia Lennon, and she stated he did come on this site. but obviously your 19, so have every right to call others THICK and A$$holes just because views differ ... predict the subs he will make or team he will select that will be the same as per out of shape out of position will persist with out of form players will not play the better player ie Lloris over Friedel. ... AVB, will get support but when he is making the same mistake week in week out he has every right to be questioned just like HR was. 11 games in and repeating same mistakes HMMMMMMM, exaclt like he did at Chelsea you have to question if his tactical ethos is up to the EPL standards no disrepects but Porto would not do the treble here in the EPL.
E17YID
lets get the 3 points we NEED today. AVB needs to up the anti and prove he is a top manager otherwise severe pressure will be on him. Lets hope ADE does a good shift and runs to those *****in gooners fans once again. YID ARRRMMMYYYY. we'll sing what we *****in want. Plus we are away from home and bar last weeks match at city we genuinely play better and i will go for a spurs win of 3-1. Get that bet on in the bookie it will come in.
Yidd Fein
COYS & WIN X3 !!!
Madaboutspurs
Getting excited already. COYS, smash the scum. For me this is the biggest game of the season. Why? Cause its THE opportunity to teach that lot a proper lesson. Form book out the window guys, this one is a contest of sheer will and want. COYS.
Arky
Play 3-5-2.
Arky
COYS!COYS!COYS!
Arky
Give them a taste of Spurs steel
Uskok
Yes msiaspur..we're from the same nation..think we were unlucky to get a draw despite our performance...hope the boys turn up big time tonite...TTID!!!!
golron
Lloris to play please...its time to lift his spirit up in such huge game...
golron
...and Ade to play behind defoe....COYS..COYS...COYS..
golron
I don't necessarily agree all the sentiment in this Indy article, but the financial stats make interesting reading if you have the time to look through it: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/daniel-levys-genius-has-given-spurs-a-chance-to-finally-rein-in-rivals-arsenal-8324093.html
jacobslad
I am slowly starting to doubt the logic of AVBs selections. He is a young manager being given the time and opportunity of building a successful team. His decision making should reflect the long term nature of the project. But today, as in recent weeks, we will start (probably) with 5 players who IMO will not be at Spurs either next year or certainly the year after. Friedel, Gallas, Hudd, Dempsey and Defoe. They have been great stalwarts of the club (OK Dempsey is a newbie). They will either retire or be playing with QPR, Fulham, Stoke. I wish them every success. AVB has to use the negatives (loss of Kaboul, Parker, Dembele, BAE) and get some positives from it. We have to play players who will form the nucleus of the team to come, and play them in their correct positions. Lloris v Friedel. Is there much between them now in ability. No. Who will be goalie in 2 years. Lloris. Then play him now. Let him experience now the passion of NLDs. The emotion of the Kop. The intimidation of Upton Park. The pressure at Utd, City, Chelsea. Let him make his mistakes NOW. Not next year. Play Verts in front of him with Caulker. Let them gain knowledge of each others game. Play Sandro where he is, in preference to Parker. OK Gallas at CB with Verts LB for today is probably the stronger option. But its not helping for the future. Play Naughton at LB. Give him experience. Hudd? Love the guy. But we know him. Dembele will walk straight back into the team. What have we learned. Nothing. Play Carrol. Demps has failed, play Falque. We have others. Use the negative situations and try and learn something positive. Ade is fit. Who will lead the line in 2 years time? Ade, not Defoe. Play Ade now up front. Start building the team now with players in their correct positions getting used to each other. This season could turn out to be a wasted year. Sorry for going on.
jacobslad
1882. Probably right. The ability is there but the attitude...? We will see.
jacobslad
THE WINNING FORMATION AGAINST LE ARSE TODAY...

http://this11.com/topics/add/abDJQrmaha
Yidmarks
Hearing rumours that Lloris will start in goal today
Spursteve
Great post, jacobslad. Totally agree with you. Thought for today´s match I would not play Walker due to his loss of confidence and would keep Hudd partnering Sandro to give Carroll and Falque a chance to be aggressive and creative at the front line. I also think Sigurdsson will play an important role in the future for Spurs but now he is probably suffering the effects of coming from a club not the same size of Tottenham Hotspur. In a similar situation, I find Dempsey, though in his case, excuses are less acceptabe as Fulham has been a consistent act for years.
AlexSpur
AVB read my post then!
jacobslad
jacobs lad......like your passion but football is a squad game. I'm hoping to see this team for the arse'. friedel, walker,gallas,caulker,vertonghen, lennon,sandro,huddlestone,bale, adebayor, defoe. subs..lloris,naughton,dawson,livermore,faque, carroll,siggurdsen. "come on you spurs"
82spursdebut
i am with you to Jacobslad.. this is a season of transition, a season that allows AVB to make his mistakes, learn from them. As Coach/Manager..

The LLoris situation, he is the national keeper and captain. He has been playing well for France, and deserves to be our No1 this season. No doubt he should be experiencing all the different crowds, stadiums and LND's. Friedel will stay as No2.

In defense, i have continuously babbled on about playing Naughton or BAE at Left-Back..

VERTS should be playing Dembele's role at the moment because we have players at CB in GALLAS, CAULKER and DAWS..

i would get used to playing VERTS at DM next to SANDRO because i think DEMBELE would be the perfect player to be playing behind ADEBAYOR....

OUR TEAM TODAY..
http://this11.com/topics/add/abDJQrmaha

OUR BEST X1
http://this11.com/topics/add/abDJQ2iage
Yidmarks
Today will give us a better idea of how much influence AVB actually has over the squad. AVB has made it clear he really wants to win this game and that it is very important to our ambitions this season. He and we now need to see this translated into a positive attitude with every Spurs player giving 100% for the 95 minutes of the game. No hiding behind the excuse of injuries. All clubs have them and most use it as an opportunity for the replacements to come in and prove they are worthy of a starting place. That is what we need to see. It's time for our SQUAD to step up. If not they deserve no place at the club. It's AVB's job to ensure this happens.
SpuriousLife
*NLD's
Yidmarks
lloris needs to start
Guernman
Alex...thanks. I forgotten Siggy already! As for Demps, I was all for the move. I read an interesting article this week. Basically at Spurs he has to play to a defined role in each game. At Fulham he could wander and do what he wanted during the game - midfield, wing, forward. He cant do that at Spurs, we cant give him that luxury and I don't suggest we should. So it hasn't worked.
jacobslad
Naughton also starting today - don't know if that means Verts is injured or not. Big blow if he is.
Spursteve
Just read that it's Caulker who is out. Both Defoe & Ade rumoured to be starting. Bold move from AVB,
Spursteve
82Spurs...i don't think I suggested using anyone not in the squad. Just use them where they play best, and develop a TEAM understanding long term.
jacobslad
Strong Arsenal 11: Szczesny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Arteta, Wilshere, Cazorla, Walcott, Podolski, Giroud
Spursteve
yeah lloris starts
Guernman
Our team: Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Gallas, Naughton, Sandro, Huddlestone, Bale, Lennon, Defoe, Adebayor
Spursteve
BBC say Djourou starts for the arse as one of a 3 man attack. Not that I have a clue who he is...lets hope it stays that way.
jacobslad
LLORIS STARTS..

ADE & DEFOE..

COYS
Yidmarks
Our starting team today is: Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Gallas, Naughton, Sandro, Huddlestone, Bale, Lennon, Defoe and Adebayor
what_sux
And our subs today: Friedel, Dawson, Livermore, Townsend, Carroll, Dempsey & Sigurdsson
what_sux
And the Arsenal team today: Szczesny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Arteta, Wilshere, Cazorla, Walcott, Podolski & Giroud
what_sux
And their subs: Mannone, Jenkinson, Santos, Coquelin, Ramsey, Oxlade-Chamberlain & Arshavin.
what_sux
NO CAULKER BUT YES LLORIS :)
what_sux
BBC have amended their typo!
jacobslad
Very positive attacking team for Spurs today, but I am slightly worried about Naughton going up against a Walcott who is out to prove a point this season. Also a little concerned that Sandro & Huud could be outnumbered & outpassed by the cultured trio of Cazorla, Arteta & Wilshire.
Spursteve
Finally AVB picks the right team Here's the Spurs line-up: Lloris, Walker, Gallas, Naughton, Vertonghen, Lennon, Sandro, Huddlestone, Bale, Adebayor, Defoe.
LOcE1980
Jacobslad really like that idea of building for the future and maybe all your options especially the younger guys could work this season
Big Ron
What happened to Caulker?
Moscovite
About time we played 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, however you like! Buzzing, looking forward to the match - hoping we can get atleast a point but would obviously be lovely to get all 3, especially away to them!
El Jefe
Well NOONE can say AVB hasn't got the team most people would want now. Lloris in goal, Ade and Defoe up front Bale and Lennon wide. If this isn't an attacking side I don't know what isn't. Brave move AVB nice one.
chrishove123
What happened to Caulker? - Moscovite...good question, he must have got a knock in another phucking england friendly, oh what is it with spurs players and england? yeah pleased he played, pleased he scored, but the cost to us is WHAT?
spu 4 life
Sometimes, when I read who´s going to be in our starting XI I have bad feelings about the incoming match. That is exactly how I felt against City. Though I miss Caulker´s name on team sheet, I liked the feeling of having Lloris and Verts where they were supposed to be playing. Still, I would like to have Falque on bench rather than Townsend.
AlexSpur
AVB reads this site lol
Guyver
Caulker came off after 75 minutes against Sweden so he's either injured or needs a rest.
Hot_Spur
Well, one thing is certain, most here, including myself, will not be moaning whatever the result. This is the sort of line-up we'd all been wishing for and what a game to give us our wish. Now let's be having the 3 points!. COYS!
Critical_Spur
I agree with you re Falque Alex. He had a v good game at Norwich and is now deemed surplus to requirements. I'd have played Carroll behind Adebayor. That Arsenal midfield looks impressive. Ade will need to run around a bit. Hope Sandro doesn't get booked too early, so much resting on him today. And welcome Hugo to the premiership and the machinations of AVB. You've sat on your arse all season (OK one game you played), and the manager now decides, in the most passionate and frenetic game of the season to give you the green light. Wonderful. Just do it. COYS.
jacobslad
We'd need to bring Carroll on at some point in this match. I'm worried about their midfield dominance.
Moscovite
REMEMBER it's only one away game amongst the other 19 we have to play away, so don't go beating yourselfs up over what might happen, ENJOY the ride, we win that's a bonus, just take every spurs win as a bonus, worst case, we lose, won't be the first time and won't be the last. Good Luck fellow YIDS...
spu 4 life
its the right team, but shame caulker is out as he will be a big miss offensively from set plays where arsenal are defensively very weak. such a shame. i hope that AVB is not criticised too much if we lose though, without dembele we lack options in the middle and this is going to be a tough game to get something out of. this is a brave line up, and to dare is to do :) COYS
Guernman
what_sux
It really beats me why we are playing this weird 3rd kit again.
AlexSpur
As you know 1882, HR couldn't write.....but he dictates it to me to do for him!
jacobslad
AlexSpur I'm with you. Is their some weird uniform ruling I'm missing here ?
underyid
Walker already looks......What happened to him lately?
Moscovite
0:0 is written all over it.
Moscovite
ADEBAYOR!
Moscovite
Er Moscovite??????
underyid
lol not 0:0 then
philbill
YYYEYEEEEAAAHHHHHH BBUUUDDDYYYY!!!!!!
rahn DMC
woohoo
Uskok
That's fu***d it then
Spursteve
***** it
rahn DMC
adebayor :-(
Moscovite
oh well, it would have been a good game :( no argument with that though
Guernman
The player brought that red card absolute bu8ll*****
philbill
howard webb ur bs
Uskok
its not just 1 up front, its little Defoe up front in a 10 man team.
Guyver
it was a red, two feet off the ground, studs showing, in no control, if that wasn't dangerous then what is
Guernman
was a red imo, stupid challenge.
Guyver
And 3 match suspension. What a stupid act.
Moscovite
Damn, he was our best player up till then
spurfect one
We were all over them, just typical of Arse to get the luck
philbill
Not a great tackle but not a red card -- Webb will always rule against Spurs, it's in his DNA,
Cape Town Spurs
One foot was on the ground and the ball was bouncing!!!
woodyn17
Whether it was red or yellow, Adebayor should have been booked earlier for leaving the pitch when he scored. Any way you look at it, he doesn't deserve to be on the pitch now and has let Spurs down.
muttley
Thats never a sending off. Carzola and Wilshire got him sent off then. Defend for 70 mins? no chance. Thing is, we looked like walking it!!!
woodyn17
hopefully we can get wilshere off, he is pretty volatile
Guernman
stupid stupid challenge...
rahn DMC
absolutely gutted, we were all over them and had their back four pretty riled
Guernman
Ref has once again ruined a great game and what could have been one of the games of the season. Is he not a policeman?
Cape Town Spurs
3 game suspension, this is where our lack of signings catch up with us.
Guyver
bad challenge ,had to go.sad but true....hope it doesn't kill the game or we don't sit back and defend.fingers crossed!
g. roberts testes
If it was an arse player i guarantee he WOULD NOT have sent him off
philbill
Here we go this is bull*****
philbill
webb should not be allowed to ref a kids match... the guy is a bent cop
Cape Town Spurs
We are in for a hiding now :(
spurfect one
Webb is a disgrace regardless. Should never be anywhere close to our matches or indeed football.
Moscovite
studs were up, feet off the ground sliding in recklessly, by the laws of the game its a red.
Guyver
Is a yellow card offence by miles, and now we won't have a chance to win
what_sux
The official guide Tottenham Hotspur 'How to ***** it up' will be out after the arse game, was watching the game but seems pointless now since we are down to 10 men so early on; wasdefinately a red card although its funny web managed to see that when he 'missed' balotelli stamping on Parker's face!
spursnoob
At least nobody will be able to blame AVB for today :) Only a brilliant Bale can save something out of this one for us.
logos8
Wilshere make so many that types of tackles and is not booked at all zzz. We know where Arsenal high tickets goes to, pocket of referees I see.
what_sux
this game could set us back years... it was the right line up, the right formation... but if we loose today, and a man down and the ref playing as arsenal's 12th it won't be easy... if this results in Friedegg back in goal and Dempsey and that Icelandic iceberg back on the pitch then we're phucked for years
Cape Town Spurs
the only cards webb will give aresenal and man u come at christmas
Cape Town Spurs
no ade for three games is a massive blow, that moment of petulance could have serious ramifications for our season
Guernman
Definitely a red card for me - high, late & studs showing. It was a pointless tackle that he didn't even need to make.
Spursteve
friedegg in goal and that would've been their 2nd
Cape Town Spurs
"Only a brilliant Bale can save something out of this one for us". He's been anonymous in all our recent games lately. No signs of a different attitude today so far.
Moscovite
Yeah? You just watched that Moscovite?
Cape Town Spurs
reckless and had to be a red, remember parker got sent off in this last year, so that's 3 games no ade, pick the bones out of that one. hard enough with 11, impossible to stop them scoring again with 10.
spu 4 life
Sandro needs to be careful, he's made several borderline tackles.
Spursteve
I ******** hate welsher
rahn DMC
is jack wilshire made of jelly ... phecking litty sqeuky pratt... i hate that player almost as much as suaraez
Cape Town Spurs
imagine friedegg saving that.... he'd have burst his yolk
Cape Town Spurs
*wilshere
rahn DMC
Thats 2 brilliant saves Lloris made within 5 minutes, well done.
what_sux
Cape Town Spurs - I imagine him standing static there watching the ball goes past him lol
what_sux
Yes, Cape Town. He looks lost and doesn't defend his flank at all. Letting every ball to be delivered.
Moscovite
Friedel would have saved that.
Spursteve
All the problems is coming from there right side, Bale needs to help out more
spurfect one
lloris is going to get a lot of practise today :(
Guernman
That deflection by Huddlestone hurts
what_sux
kind of sickening seeing sol cambell grinning like a cheshire c***!
g. roberts testes
They have had all the luck, the simple fact is if Ade had stayed on the pitch we were far better than them. I think Webb could have given a yellow but he always screws spurs. He has *****ed this game up for us as he always does on the big occassions
philbill
i can't watch anymore of this... between webbs corrupt radicalism and ade's stupidity this game has become a nightmare. a game we would have won. this has imo potentailly destroyed our season
Cape Town Spurs
Like someone said Bale is static. He doesn't even bother walking let alone running. Just stands and watches how everyone is running around him.
Moscovite
another bad day at the office
logos8
Now its all over
philbill
OK, now we officially crumbled.
Moscovite
webb has killed this and slaughtered us. I'm done. night all
Cape Town Spurs
This is feckin hilarious!
CalculatedKalou
I think we will now lose heavily, the spirit is broken going in 2:1 before half time
philbill
philbill - Agree today is not Arsenal 2-1 Tottenham, its' Arsenal's luck 2-1 Tottenham. The referee is atrocious, so freaking overrated, everyone in their camp dives, freekick goes their wayz zzzzz
what_sux
We can all moan about the red card, but the worrying thing is our how we crumbled going down to ten men. I fear for us now, it could be 6
spurfect one
How not to play with ten men. This high line is a joke. This capitulation is a joke. 10 men should not result in such a poor performance
jonathan01
can't watch the second half......too painful!
g. roberts testes
told you i was right, go 1 up an loose.
123spurs
The poorest performance in this half? Webb by miles!
what_sux
10 men with Defoe up front on his own is basically 9 men.
Guyver
"between webbs corrupt radicalism and ade's stupidity this game has become a nightmare" Nice summary. Sad but true.
Moscovite
Gallas needs to be taken off he has been a liability all season. Little we can do expect try not to concede more than 6
Forever Spurs
Totally with you jonathan - why are we still trying to play a high line when we're a man down. We haven't changed at all to compensate for Ade being sent off.
Spursteve
i think moscovite & soursteve will enjoy this scoreline as actually i think they support woolwich
Cape Town Spurs
I am afraid AVB should not be playing a high line in the first place, we do not have the pace in defence to do it. He does not learn from all his mistakes thats why I dont like him. As soon as we lost ADE he should have dropped a little deeper to give space behind Arse for Bale and Lennon to exploit. The loss will be completely down to Ade and Webb though, a disgrace
philbill
Webb is appaling.
spurswede
the one player we couldnt afford to get sent off waas him. it literally send our whole game plan out the complete window. wass a silly tackle but never a sending off. eyes only for the ball one foot going in with the ball bouncing. but we cant feell sorry for ourselves. we need to stick siggy on an dempsey on for defoe cos jermain wont hold it up an the ball will keep coming back to defence. at least with demps he can hold it up an wait for bale an lennon an bring em in. otherwise, no chance.
BrooksySpurs
AVB has done nothing to adapt to being one man down and the scoreline shows it...
logos8
Defoe off for Dawson. Jan to LB, Naughton LM, Bale upfront. Final score 3-3.
thenuge
thank you moscovite... perhaps you are a yid after all!!
Cape Town Spurs
I havent noticed any high line after Ade's sending off. It's not like the back line is on the halfway line.
Guyver
This is unbearable, Howard Webb is incompetent as any referee would have kept 11 on each side 'till the second half at least, unless a horrid foul were committed.
dcruzer
What makes you think that Cape Town? Also what brought you to discuss our personalities instead of the actual game?
Moscovite
Ade is an idiot and with today's rules cannot complain about getting red. 1st goal poor marking by Hudd. 2nd goal very unlucky although Gallas should have done more.
El Jefe
a high line with slow gallas was a wrong move from the beginning imho. they were always going to punish us for that, but now with only 9 men defending it is turning into a goal fest for them.
logos8
Corrupt radicalism?" Someone want to explain that one to me?
underyid
Who can we blame for this? I blame the FA, they know we always have injuries around this time of year. Taxi for Miacon, my god naughton needs a bus, his reallly out of his depth at left back, fancy asking him to mark walcott, silly AVB. Big C said 4-1 this could be 40 -1
spu 4 life
Un******** believable. Our squad is so thin that one daft challenge resulting in a red now means that we're definitely *****ed for this game, probably *****ed for the next 3 games, and *****ed for our season, barring some massive influx of talent and an incredible tactical turn around come January.
VexSpur
we're in for a very long second half!
MalaysiaSpur
you will never get a fair go when webb control freak gets his *****en police notebook
Uskok
Idiots everywhere.
TopSpur13
Lets look at the bright side. At least Lloris is getting some game time in the premiership and a lot of work to do today for him :)
logos8
And for those blaming Webb - the only person to blame is Ade. It was a red card challenge. And to say this result will destroy our season is laughable, we're 12 games in. It's just another defeat to add to the 4 we already have.
Spursteve
BTW, that is a definite Red, Webb not to blame there.
thenuge
I really thought we'd got the team right and with that early goal, there was a glimmer of hope of us taking all 3 points.....
MalaysiaSpur
lloris doesn't deserve this.
Moscovite
What is the scoreline going to be now? High enough to get rid of AVB?
G Spur
4 league losses on the trot, oh dear oh dear.
CalculatedKalou
cheers yids, & apologies moscovite if you are one of us & I made an error in judgement. i'm going to see my wife and baby in hospital -- i had planned to wait until the end of the game but don't think they need me arrviving shouting and swearing. 8olloxs
Cape Town Spurs
I agree with thenuge it was a red...nothing to do with the ref. Ade's let the team down.
MalaysiaSpur
All it would take is Defoe to get injured for a few games and people would really see how ridiculously poor our transfers were in the summer.
Guyver
Hudd looks sluggish once again. Just not fit or quick enough with feet or mind. I'd get Carroll on who can provide an outlet. Dawson on for Naughton. Go 3-5-1. Walker and Bale wingbacks. Gallas-Dawson-Vertonghen. Siggy on for Lennon. Siggy-Sandro-Carroll. Defoe up front. I need a beer.
jacobslad
All season we have been extremely poor when any team, even the weakest teams, attack us. We just do not know what to do, crumble and give up. Now in this game against an attacking team and only 10 men we could be in for a Premier League record defeat.
Forever Spurs
on 1 december we will fight with Fulham for 7th place
logos8
Ade BIG EGO made him make that tackle and has made it impossible for us now.

Bale does very little defensively and not doing much offensively either. It's about time he stopped roaming and got stuck in and did part of his job and defend as naughton is inexperienced and we are getting battered down the right.

Their goal no one challenged and again it shows how rubbish we are in CD with Gallas, he is not strong enough in the air said it all season Dawson is better in the air that Gallas and AVB just doesn't see it and again it has cost us a goal. We have no defenders that can get his head on it including Walker who is playing rubbish again, Dawson should be playing to do that role.

Again their last goal was poor clearance Gallas was the man to clear it but wasn't quick enough. Until AVB stops playing Gallas we are stuffed as Vertonghen and Caulker are different types of defenders and they need someone with the ability to control the area when the ball comes in high someone who can put their head on it. It's about complementing partnerships. We need BAE back and cover at both LB and RB because Walker is useless and Naughton is not ready.

This is going to be a long season and now we are in the decline. We also have Ade missing for three games so we are back to Dempsey/Siggy criminal that we have left ourself short of out and out strikers. We are nowhere near the squad and team we had last season this is heart breakink.
thfan
we need bale to do what he did against Inter.......we can live and hope
MalaysiaSpur
It is not a definite Red, I guarantee if it was an Arse player Webb would have given a yellow. He had one foot on the ground and arse player rolled around like his leg was broken and then got up with nothing wrong. The arse players got ADe sent off, however he should know it was risky in a derby match and with Howard "top 4 forever" Webb in charge
philbill
really missing parker today sandro is doing his best but huddlestone isn't in the same class as parker.ade is now banned for 3 games then a few weeks later he's off to the African nations,this sending off may really wreck our season.can't blame AVB for this.the lack of a signing decent striker and a modders replacement has/will really come back to bite us on the buttocks..UNLESS...we get them in january.can't see it happening though.(sigh).
g. roberts testes
Hope everything's ok with your wife & baby Cape - I assume you've just become a father? If so, congrats & look forward to the sleepless nights!
Spursteve
Main concern now is a 6-1 / 7-1 hiding. Alright kids, check back in after the game.
thenuge
It is not the high line. It is slow old players that cost us week in and week out. Gallas is done. Done, done, done. He is out of position all the time and is no longer quick enough to react. With he and mindless Walker on the right, we are susceptible every game. ManU cut them to pieces. WE got lucky. All the movement is through that side. Get the ball to Walcott or Sagna, throw in a cross to a player who is avoiding his coverage and the chance is there. I would rather see Dawson in there.

As for the card, what can be said? Adebayor threw the team under the bus just like Crouch did against RM. No different. That said, 10 men did not effect our defensive setup. The difference is we now have a useless up top player who is just watching their MF's pull all the strings as he waits for a ball over the top that he will do nothing with. Myself, I'd have changed it up, taken off Defoe, thrown on Carroll and tried to take the MF out of the game. No striker matters not. We're relying on Lennon and Bale anyway. Defoe has as much chance of causing Arsenal issues as I do and I'm 6,000 km away. COYS
peterballb
Dempsey to save our day? hmmm
what_sux
Glad Naughton's off - he had a shocker against Walcott first half.
Spursteve
philbill, if Charlie Adam did that to Bale, you'd say it was a red.
Guyver
The only thing we can hope for is the next 45mins fly by ; Dempsey is coming on, Dawson On
spu 4 life
dempsey and dawson on
MalaysiaSpur
thenuge..like your thoughts on changes. As for the red card, as much as I dislike Webb, he had no option. It is Ade who has single handedly wrecked this game. Hope he gets fined the max possible by the club. Such mistakes would get you sacked in a real job
Forever Spurs
Hudd looks sluggish once again. Just not fit or quick enough with feet or mind. I'd get Carroll on who can provide an outlet. Dawson on for Naughton. Go 3-5-1. Walker and Bale wingbacks. Gallas-Dawson-Vertonghen. Siggy on for Lennon. Siggy-Sandro-Carroll. Defoe up front. I need a beer. jacobslad
jacobslad
Calm yourselves. It isn't over yet. Granted it could get worse but it could get better too. We've got nothing to lose so AVB and the players have a chance to make a name for themselves here - for the right or wrong reasons! The worse that can happen is we go back home without any points. Let's see how we react to the challenge.
SpuriousLife
looks like we're going for it!
MalaysiaSpur
I wanna see Vertonghen and Caulker
what_sux
Just keep in respectable please. I can't cope with this.
TopSpur13
Inspiring from AVB bring on Dempsey !!
DevonSpurs
And like I said last week, this high line is destroying us like it destroyed Chelsea.
TopSpur13
He's done us in the past but Webb has got every decision right today. At least we are having a go. I would rather go down like this than just give up
jonathan01
can't blame AVB, he got it spot on and we were the better team until the red. cant blame bale now either, what should he do, send passes is from the left wing to watch no-one get to them. AVB doesnt want naughton playing today but what are the options, gallas with dawson would be destroyed
Guernman
So its Giroud, Podolski and Walcott against Verts, Gallas and Dawson with the high line.... Forgive me for being pessimistic.
TopSpur13
We'll score at least one more. To be honest, and I am, Arsenal are *****e.
Moscovite
Set pieces.
TopSpur13
Great tackle from Dawson.
Spursteve
oh get up you phucking (unt, great tackle by daws... loks like we're giving this a go.
rahn DMC
Positive move to go three at the back and add to midfield. Walker has been poor all season and Naughton was having a tough time. Three defenders at the back gives tus the opportunity to have a go. First time I have ever seen AVB make positive subs
Forever Spurs
that should keep walcott quiet for a few mins.
jacobslad
Arsenal players are made of glass? They seem to fall at every tackle, come on man up
what_sux
If this finishes 3-2 I will be a happy Spurs fan
logos8
brave subs from AVB, I just hope that we don't concede any more so we could walk away with our heads high
logos8
****
logos8
The high line worked well there. Moron, absolute moron. Podolski walked past Gallas.
TopSpur13
Get Gallas out of the starting lineup. Too slow. Too slow. Too slow. COYS
peterballb
No more Gallas, please...
AlexSpur
POOR DEFENDING, FFS
spurfect one
It's not the high line. It's Gallas constantly playing guys on and too slow to react. COYS
peterballb
2 more goals from arsenal and if newcastle and fulham win we will be 10th
logos8
Lennon is our best defender on the right. There is the problem. COYS
peterballb
Bale just doesn't defend at all. Not that he did much in the attack either.
Moscovite
why play a high line when 1. we cant do it 2. we cant do it 3. we cant do it 4. we dont have players to do it.
123spurs
It's not the high line haha funny man. I bet it wasn't the high line right there either when walcott had our whole box to himself. Thank God for Verts eh
TopSpur13
that was not the high line either, it was the fact that dawson wasn't in the line
Guernman
arsenal lost 8-2 at old trafford and still finished third so there is still hope for a 4th spot. coys
logos8
This should be an end for Gallas too
what_sux
It didn't work at Chelsea and it is not working for us. Ragings One season, one hit wonder at Porto argument making more sense as the weeks go by. Man Bale.
TopSpur13
I cant wait until Howard Webb retires
spurfect one
Finally!
Moscovite
still play for pride....well done bale.
jacobslad
Bale scored - meaning is all losing Paddy power bets will get refunded haha!
Moscovite
What is Defoe on there for? Long balls? Nowhere to be seen. MF'ers pulling the strings under his watchful eye. Bale shoots and he's just jogging. Fortunately the ball went in. Rebound and there'd be nothing because he hasn't a clue. Knows how to be offside and then complain though. COYS
peterballb
Good, Bale scores, Hudd comes off for Carroll, and THE WEAK LINK RAMSEY COMES ON!!
spurring you on
why is Defoe not sliding in anticipation of that? I know, he was offside. COYS
peterballb
We need a penalty.
Moscovite
Oh ffs look at that Dawson versus Walcott 30 yards from goal in a 1v1 sprint....
TopSpur13
there you go defoe, there was your pass from bale
Guernman
Defoe miskick zz
what_sux
There's a top striker for you. Pav would have buried that. COYS
peterballb
Much better in the second half we look like we are trying and have played some decent football...as we did before that tool got sent off
Forever Spurs
Very good corner by Carroll. He needs to play more. COYS
peterballb
Lloris is having a brilliant game, really quick and decisive.
rahn DMC
AVB doesn't strike you as the man to go in to that dressing room and give Adebayor the hair-dryer treatment he deserves either.
TopSpur13
"Santos is on, but rumour has it, that he already has the shirt of Adebayor." lol
Moscovite
i'm just happy we're still playing for it. imagine if we had played like this in other games
spurring you on
I agree about Lloris, his speed of his line is amazing and his handling and reflexes are excellent. Shame for him its in a derby game with us down to 10
philbill
why oh why do gallas and dempsey play for us... :'(
rahn DMC
Dempsey is just *****, he brings nothing but breaking play down for the opposition
philbill
Same score as in February. At least there is some consistency.
Moscovite
5-2 again. I feel sick.
Spursteve
dempsey no good for us. too slow in mind and body. esp mind
spurring you on
poor lloris really didnt deserve this
Guernman
This score makes you wonder whether it's a manager's problem? Both HR and AVB ended up with the same outcome.
Moscovite
Decent 2nd half all things considered and if Bale squares that ball to Defoe its 4-3 and game on! Last goal means nothing really, we are still chasing and players are then knackered, etc!
El Jefe
really proud of the players, a damn good display considering the circumstances
Spurs999
pool Lloris lol. he has picked the ball out of the net as much as brad ths season. lol
123spurs
Thought Demps did OK actually myself, Lennon was the absolutely crap one in that 2nd half - completely pedestrian just as was in 1st half! Look at their wingers, Walcott scored and assisted, Podolski assisted, for us Bale scored, Lennon as pretty much always does f all.
El Jefe
Thats what you get from falling in love with our clueless reject
munich Glory
Not many positives to be taken from that game at all. We had a good first 15 mins, but after the stupid tackle from Ade it was all downhill. The players desperately need a result n Rome on Thursday to get this one straight out of their systems.
Spursteve
Adebayor and AVB take all the blame for me. Stupid red card but that still doesn't hide the fact that he insists on playing this high line which evidently does under no circumstances work.
TopSpur13
That wasn't much fun was it?
DocHotspurs
WE'LL GET THEM AT THE LANE!!!!!!!
zombie-greavsie
Agree Spurs999, they kept trying 'til the end. In previous years it was capitulation the moment the derby would swing in Arsenal's favour. Arsenal aren't as good as the score sheet suggests.
zombie-greavsie
Agree Spurs999, they kept trying 'til the end. In previous years it was capitulation the moment the derby would swing in Arsenal's favour. Arsenal aren't as good as the score sheet suggests.
zombie-greavsie
on a positive note it was good to see us at least giving it a go.
MalaysiaSpur
Hope its not a case of AVB this and AVB that, he picked the team that most of us wanted to see on here. We were winning then Ade shows why most footballer's are thick as planks and gets himself sent off. 2nd half changed things round and like already said if Bale squares to Defoe, its game on with 15-20 mins to go!
El Jefe
Spursteve, I wouldn't invest much into the game in Rome - PL is more important to us at this stage and Lazio is a strong opponent - we will probably get nothing out of this match anyway. Plus we can always get result against Panantinakios at home. Next match against West Spam is crucial.
Moscovite
TopSpur13, a bot harsh on AVB mate. If it wasn't for Ade getting sent off this would have been a different game
MalaysiaSpur
BRING ON THE TROLLS!!! WE'LL GET THEM AT THE LANE!!!!
zombie-greavsie
The biggest positive out of this game for us, has to be HUGO LLORIS, his so quick of his line and showed his a top keeper, little chance with any of the goals; Gallas is proving every week how slow he is, i thought the system AVB tried in the second half was both very bold and his not going to just take it, at least he gave it a go. Someone said in the week our best three centre halfs are KABOUL; CAULKER; VERTONGHEN, get them playing this system and it could be just what we need; SANDRO DEMBELE PARKER in midfield, LENNON & BALE wide, DEFOE and LEANDRO up top, so go and sign him levy. So that's it phuck Lazio, it's more important everyone is fit and ready for wet spam, that is a must win game, not some No hopa cup
spu 4 life
Carroll looks very good, very Xavi like. Always makes himself available. Unfortunately the rest of the team don't know how to get the best out of him. Other than that, AVB's tactical change at half-time did work quite well for us. I was hoping for a more closer loss but with Ade being off and knowing how we are notorious for panicking and crumbling, this was expected. But I will say this, if it weren't for the changes at half-time, it could've been worse. A lot worse.
spuradic
Look the middle of the park was dominated by Adebayor, VDV, Modric and Parker. Only one of those guys played.....for 17 minutes. Fact is, if Dembele, Parker, Kaboul, Caulker were available and Adebayor had stayed on his feet, the match could have been very different. Adebayor is selfish. No surprise and precisely why I would not have brought him in the second he was not going to be in for the Newcastle game. Team players show up for the team. His team is him. No diferent than Defoe who has taken two straight reds over the past .

We were in this one. Were in the one against City. I'm not that concerned. We need Gallas and Friedel out. We need Defoe back as an impact sub. We need a couple of real strikers. Add our injured guys back and we've got a top 4 team. COYS
peterballb
agree with thfc1882whl, the boys could have easily given up but they came out and gave it a go can't ask for more. good performance from Carrol
MalaysiaSpur
I don't doubt that Malaysia. But the high line defensively is suicide. It just makes it too easy especially against a team with the pace of the Arsenal forwards. It was so obvious that was our main problem.
TopSpur13
Lots of lessons to take from this match, I really don't mind the score as it was foreseeable after Adebayor's red card. Why did AVB wait till HT to fix the team ?? HE could have done something right after Arsenal equalised. Bale is good but someone has to tell hi he is not Messi. At 4-2 he again wanted gloy for himself when Defoe was better positioned to tap into the net. Gallas cannot play anymore in PL. He is too slow and his experience is not gaining s any points. Daniel Levy must go shopping and selling next january and he has to be assertive or next season will see lots of key players leaving. Hudd added nothing to side. Let Carroll play from the start. Let Falque play as Lennon has been ineffective for so long. Three defeats in a row being defetead by Chelsea, City and Arsenal.Too much time to react as Arsenal's last season campaign proved, but lessons need to be learnt.
AlexSpur
The worse thing about this game was that Arsenal once again were there for the taking. Like in February we should and could have beaten them.

My most frustrating thing is why AVB persists with Gallas, why Dempsey gets game time, do everyone see how he lost the ball and just stood and watched, he was brought on to try and make an impact, he is disinterested and his body language shows he is not happy.

Second half performance was much improved but again we gave the ball away too easily esp. Gallas and at the end Vertonghen did but we can let Vertonghen off as he is by mile one of the best players we have,

Arsenal also showed us today how to come back, keep the lead and still press on when they were 2 - 1 up, something we don't do. We never seem to want to score a hat full of goals even when we are playing well, we take a narrow lead and then drop off and go defensive, Arsenal kept pressing they wanted five or six goals do we ever want that- NO.

I personally think Carroll should be given more game time, sure he will make mistakes but he can make things tick for us and will get better.

Now we have less strike force with Ade out, a GK who makes a rare Pl start and has five put passed him, I bet he is not happy. Sandro is on a lot of yellow cards so we will lose him over busy xmas season, can it get worse.

Let down by lack of quality players arriving and quality players leaving in the summer and stupidity, Ade has gave us very little up to yet this season with his messing around pre season, then lack of fitness, then injuries and now two games in a huge ego that will and has cost us dearly, is he worth it - NO.

We have not looked good all season and as I can see it now no one in the PL are scared of us, we are not being talked about like we were in the first halsf of last season, even Fergie said we are playing the best football in the PL and other teams were fearful of us, then of course HR messed up after xmas and other teams stopped being fearful of us and no tean are now.

this will inject some confidence in Arsenal, come xmas they will be well in front of us and \i just cannot see a solution unless we spend big time in january, will players want to come to a club that are not in contention anymore.
thfan
I will give AVB credit for having a go at half time, however it is plain for all to see that to play a high line you need fast central midfielders and Gallas is just too slow. Although I do believe Lloris speed of his line will help...
philbill
im sorry im all for people having an opinion but ppl having a go at avb for this... are they for real?! if it werent for him we would have conceded a lot more than 5. when ade got sent off that completely through our game plan out the window an there was no way we could hold on like that. his changes at half time were very positive an very tactical. i didnt expect it. yet in the first ten mins we were a completely diffferent side. we had 64% against an arsenal side away with ten men...granted it got too much for the players but they couldnt have done anymore. oh an tom carroll coming on was very good.
BrooksySpurs
well, there are positives. carroll again showed real promise. lloris played far better than the score line suggests, again his speed off the line and distribution were very good. I am actually feeling positive about AVB too. My biggest problem was with the lloris situation but he did show a few continental traits today which need to be suppressed in the PL, punching when he should catch etc and a little over eagerness in coming into congested areas so perhaps the phasing in is not madness. Furthermore we were the better team in the first 15 minutes and could so easily have gone 2-0 up. AVB got it spot on, and ade really let everyone down with a crazy tackle that was red all day. shame we couldnt hold out till half time because again AVB got the changes spot on for the second half and what could have been the most painful 45 minutes ever turned out to be a pretty close contest against the odds. at 4-2 the arse fans were worried. AVB is also stuck with players he doesn't want, and in dawson and huddlestone they don't have what it takes to take us forward. AVB is doing very well with what he has, but without a top striker and playmaker we have real problems. bale must be getting very *****ed off because he really has no options with defoe always offside and just incapable of reading the crosses. sandro was immense again, but we also need parker back to give him a rest. AVB will drop gallas in a heart beat IMO as soon as he actually can, but dawson is not the answer, even though gallas is slow he reads the game better than dawson..we need kaboul back. i am sure that AVB would rather have other options for dempsey, hudd, walker and naughton too.
Guernman
I think the biggest positive out of this is that we didn't give up. We fought to the end and kept on trying to take the game to them. I think AVB got it spot on, after the sending off it was as if our players were a bit shell shocked. It took them a while to recover, but they and AVB managed to deal with it and ended up IMHO acquitting themselves very well.
chrishove123
Spu4live..a lot of us believe that system, well me at least Play to your strengths. I posted very early in the day. Given Dembeles absence we must play Carroll not Hudd. We must think future. Lloris is in for good now surely. Nothing against Brad, but Lloris is the future and he has to keep getting this experience now, this season. No Ade for how long and then Africans Cup. So we need to look at more youngsters. The U21s are scoring goals for fun. I dont care if their not ready we got phuck all choice. My biggest worry is that Verts, Sandro and Bale must be thinking WTF.
jacobslad
For all the criticism Defoe comes in for on here, surprised Lennon gets an easy escape from many! Poor, poor performance from him yet again! Defoe made the 1st goal with an excellent 1st time shot that forced the jam roll to push the ball out into Ade's path for a simple enough tap-in! If it was like playing with 9 men because Defoe was all alone up front, then it was really like playing with 8 with the ineffective Lennon on the pitch!
El Jefe
think AVB got it spot on today. Good 2nd half. Ade needs to issue a public apology to the spurs fans.
woodyn17
I'm not sure how I feel after that. I was glad we showed a bit of fight in the second half but can't understand why we waited until half-time to make the necessary changes. We all know Gallas is too slow for the PL but the only available replacement we have fit at the moment is Dawson and he is slower than Gallas! Despite conceding 5 goals I actually liked the way Lloris played. He's quick of mind and body and has to be our number one going forward. Defoe continues to frustrate me as he delivers when it is easy but is invisible when we need him. That is not helping us at the moment.
SpuriousLife
I am sure that AVB can see that gallas is slow, but dawson is just as slow plus he can't read the game as well. he is a real weak link playing any line, he was more than a yard off the line to play them onside for one of their goals. we need kaboul back alongside vertonghen for what will be a truly immense pairing. Yes i would play vertonghen and caulker ahead of galls, but we have to credit AVB for bringing caulker into the side and giving him the run of games that has taken him to scoring for england. I am sure that gallas will soon be fourth choice, but perhaps his featuring alongside caulker has really helped the young man to develop. I really hope that AVB is given a fair chance at spurs because he has played more members of his squad than any other PL manager and he has brought through youngsters like caulker and carroll when harry would have loaned them out. He showed courage today in his team and the changes he made, if he is given time i think he can really do something with the club
Guernman
AVB lost the changing room. You're 'avin' a giraffe mate. HA HA HA
chrishove123
Hudd's corners were poor, phraps he really is out the door in Jan? Of everyone he seems the least interested, to me - tho I may be wrong. I'd like to see Carroll get more game time - someone with something to prove. Anyway - Like some have said - at least we had a go after half-time, shame they couldn't have kept it shored up at 1-1 -we might have nicked it. COYS!
DocHotspurs
Well all those that were slating Freidel and using "clean sheets" as a stat against Freidel - Peterballb and BigC in particular, what do you say now? Freidel hasn't let in 5 goals this season. Argue your way out of that one, you chose to use "clean sheets" as an argument against Freidel, now it's come back to bite you in the arse.
Hot_Spur
lennon brings so much defensively that is overlooked, his game also relies on a partner in RB who can play to his strengths going forward and offer real defensive stability, only corluka provided that and his through balls for lennon were ideal, ahead of corluka lennon was touted as the best right winger in the country, now he is all too often left to fill in the gaps created by walker while never getting the kind of delivery going forward that gets him in behind defences.
Guernman
you have a point TopSpur but you've got to give AVB some credit for getting the boys fired up for the 2nd half and the substitutions given what he had on the bench were reasonable
MalaysiaSpur
SpuriousLifeI think the idea of Defoe up front on his own is to act as a decoy. They know that every time a ball is put up to him he will take at least two players, the same when he runs, he may even pull 3 players with him, this opens gaps for us to exploit. A lose ball we are already in the gap unchallenged, giving us just that extra second or so on the ball, hence a better and more accurate delivery. Then again I am no master footballing wizard. If I were, I'd be on FIFFA all day long. LOL
chrishove123
It shocks me how many fans hate on AVB, he got it as right as he could have done today... blame for me falls squarely on Ades/Howard Webbs/Levys shoulders. Ade because there was no need... ref (mainly all refs and this is more me being angry than a valid reason i suppose) because it ruined the game and (I need to have another look at the tackle and this is more just a complaint at modern day football) he doesn't have to whip out a card at every situation... and levy, because he has not backed AVB at all and this Jan we NEED 4 real quality players.
rahn DMC
I agree with you, El Jefe. Lennon has not been himself lately. As some have already mentioned, and I'll repeat this, from now on it has to be Lloris over Friedel, Falque over Lennon, Carrol over Hudd (until Dembele comes back) every game.
spuradic
El Jefe, Defoe either scores or he does little to nothing. You can slag Lennon all you want. Like against City, Bale and Lennon were marked out of the game. This was possible today because Adebayor got sent off. Lennon did defend. Better than Gallas or Walker, so while I am not happy with Lennon's movement today, the one shot was class and oh so close. Lennon has a complete game. He pressures the other team's MF and wingers. He forces players to stick close so he does something. Defoe does nothing. If he doesn't score, he's invisible. His shot that Adebayor tucked in the rebound should have been buried. Scuffed as ever. No technique. Gives no passing option to Dempsey. Twice Dempsey had to slow attacks because Defoe's runs were of no effect. There was no pass to pick out. I'd blame Dempsey, but I've watched Berbatov, VDV and others have the same issues. He is terrible. 4-4-2 striker or impact sub. Nothing more. COYS
peterballb
Guernman he is a winger first and foremost and that means he must have attacking quality. He was never considered the best right winger in the country, he has never scored or assisted the type of number's necessary for such an accolade. Bale does not need anyone behind him, he keeps producing because he has the quality! We need another winger of a similar standard and also a playmaker who can bring everything together.
El Jefe
Guernman+ I thought Lennon's tracking back and actual defensive efforts were superb, especially when you take into consideration how poor attacking players are in defence. I thought he made a couple of really good crucial tackles, very confidently. I can see AVB slowly instilling confidence and self belief in the SQUAD.
chrishove123
water under the bridge. bring on Lazio!
logos8
Lennon like Defoe ultimately should only be used as an impact sub, when their pace can fully be exploited. We need a whole better class of player both for up front and for the RW if we want to really achieve. To be top 5-6 and maybe challenge for 4th we can make do with the likes of Lennon and Defoe, but if we really want to challenge and be guaranteed top 4 we need better quality attackers of the ilk of Bale and also Ade (although he has done himself no favours today with the sending off, you can see from his City performance and also his positioning for the goal today and taking of it the kind of quality he offers)!
El Jefe
The positives for me were 1. the team spirit, they didn't let their heads drop and gave it a go, 2. I thought AVB got it right today. team selection and substitutions, he went after the game from the off 3. Carroll's performance was encouraging and hopefully he'll get more game time in future 4. I thought Lloris did alright and the scoreline doesn't reflect how he played. The worry for me is the depth or lack there of in the striking dept. I thought the Ade / Defoe combo was good till Ade got sent off but what happens when either is injured? I also think this game may just spark a reaction that could get us back on track.
MalaysiaSpur
Peter agree Defoe ultimately should only be a go to impact sub, but then personally same can be said of Lennon. Disagree about the shot though, beautifully taken on half-volley and forced an excellent save which only resulted into a parry for Ade to tap in!
El Jefe
el jefe in the 2009/10 season lennon was often touted as the best right winger in the PL before he got injured, i remember after one performance MOTD spent quite some time discussing his MOTM display
Guernman
I'm sure I'm not the only one but Hot_Spur, comments like that show your maturity level........enough said.
thenuge
Yup, dunno why most blame AVB. He is doing the best he can with the limited quality squad that was given to him. We don't have many more brilliant players other than Bale, Dembele, Sandro, Vertonghen, Lloris, and Adebayor. Its really Levy's fault as usual. He could have gotten more cover, but is unwilling to make a small sacrifice or risk with up and coming players. In the end (sooner rather than later) our limited quality players will want to leave. Bale can easily go to Madrid/Barca. Vertonghen and Dembele can go Man U in a wink. Sandro would easily get snapped up by any top Italian club. Worse, Lloris could end up going to the Arse, easily back to France, or even become Madrid's No1. And Adebayor would probably stay, but by then our team would be clearly finished. Our luck with getting the quality players we have right now may not come back so soon, thus Levy must cut the C r a p and get us really good players now, not find them near the end of the transfer window.
dcruzer
avb is on thin ice now. Hes destroying lloris by putting him in for this beating. he better not drop him next week, then i really will be for AVB out. When can we appoint the best man for the job? At least the more we lose the quicker we can sack this clown. GET ME MOYES !!
jimmy-yid
Malaysia - I agree with that but when you have a 3 man back line of Gallas, Dawson and Verts which isn't the fastest why not put them on the 18 yard line, stand tall, head the ball away and defend the way their best equipped to. It opens up more of the pitch for a counter attack and doesn't make us have to witness the horror of Walcott and Dawson is a straight 30 yard sprint. I liked the the subs for a change and firmly acknowledge that Ade being a moron cost us massively going forward but I just cant accept this high line which not for the first time this season did not work at all. You seen it last year and how Terry struggled with it because that's not how he defends. If you have the right pacey defenders it could work but we didn't today nor have we had all season.
TopSpur13
A lot said about Lennon, his one downfall is goals, maybe that's why AVB was after Willian?. For weeks i've said hudd is to slow, but his all we have left un-less AVB sticks Carrol in every week, Hudd will soon start to look like the count from monte christo, i've more chance of scoring then he has. Gallas, well his captain that's the problem and his toys will be all down the high road if AVB leaves him out, but it's time he did. We hva lost games to chelsea, Man City, This lot, but is that any surprise, not to me. It's hard because games are coming thick and fast, i would love us to do well in the No hopa Cup, but if it means more injuries and games lost at the weekend no, 11-v-11 is hard enough with 10 impossible, we have some top players, we have a top coach, we need everyone back and some new ones in January, that is clear. But i have faith in AVB to work on this season, we need 23 more points and we are safe.
spu 4 life
I emphasise SQUAD because that is most important. Harry I feel had the first team at one stage filled with that self belief and confidence. The only problem was that the rest of the sqaud deidn't feel anaything of the sort, they wanted out because they knew he had his team and that was it. He ran an autocracy, I think what has changed big time is that WE are going to prove that we can go with the revolution. THAT is what it is. It's not "transition" it is out and out revolution. AVB has brought in the age of the meritocracy. This makes ALL the players who are good enough, or who have the potential feel that they have a chance. As he rotates the squad and gives them all more playing time he will strengthen the squad. He is doing this instead of loaning them out, I suspect, this way they learn to play together. Bit like getting new bass and drums into a band. Use this season as a training session for the squad. Not that many squads next season will have played together that way in top competitive football.
chrishove123
Peter the shot was OK but a better player might shoot first time instead of taking extra touches to fully compose himself, etc and there have been several times already this season where an easy shot was on and he looks for a chip into the box, etc - overcomplicating and actually making it harder when no need to. Also several times when we were on the counter attack he cut back and looked to pass it off instead of taking it on himself and doing something with it, stuff that Bale always attempts to do and many times pays off!
El Jefe
Can't see why Lennon, Defoe etc are getting o much stick. The game was over when Ade got sent off and with the system we use. In the second half we went to three at the back and the whole balance of the side looks much better. For me that is how we should go in future; Daws, Caulker and Verts at the back, with two wing backs, three in midfield (I would try Carroll with Sandro & Thud) and two upfront
Forever Spurs
Viva AVB. Viva la revolution.
chrishove123
Thudd was running the game before Ade got sent off...just look out it without your distorted glasses on and you will see...thought he played well all game looking fitter than he has all season. I would like to see him though with two others in midfield. I have always said that to play him you need that...unless you have someone of the class of Modric
Forever Spurs
Couple more players, bit of tweaking, and we are there..
chrishove123
It was Brad Friedel's idea to let Hugo play, he told AVB that hugo deserves another prem game, i don't mind missing this one, yeah Brad knows best.
spu 4 life
B
TopSpur13
haha that went well.
TopSpur13
Guernman and Peter he was actually for a long time my favourite player, but now I have opened my eyes to his limitations and it will only get worse if AVB persists with a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 etc, Lennon is not good/productive enough to play as a right forward, its why we wanted Remy.
El Jefe
I can't argue with you on this one TopSpur, you need young fast defenders to make the high line work.
MalaysiaSpur
I see many are having a go at Dempsey. Wouldn't be the same people who said what a great player he is, Siggy is and how they are much better then Modric and VDV and would give the team more enegy and shed loads of goals. Oh dear some people maybe now are seeing the difference between carthorses and thorougbreds
Forever Spurs
Next week vs wet spam keep the roof closed over white hart lane, it will stop most of their play
spu 4 life
And/or Willian!
El Jefe
Dempsey I still have time for as stated last week, he has proven over various season's he's a good professional who scores regularly in Prem. Siggy is a completely different story though, half a decent season in Prem and some form in the Championship - indeed all his journeying around at such a young age should have had alarm bells ringing really and to think we paid the same for him as for VDV!!!!!
El Jefe
Here we go again with how good he is at tracking back, perhaps then we should employ him at RB then?! Maybe then we can get a RW who can take a man on, cross a ball and score a goal!
El Jefe
Lennon has never been a great goal scorer and has always worked hard defensively, so nothing new there, but I must admit, I do miss the old Lennon that would terrorize Clichy, Evra and Ashley Cole. He use to do this more consistently.
Guyver
And agree with El Jefe, for the system AVB clearly wants to play, is a 1 in 10 goal scorer good enough for the right wing? He could definitely use some competition for his place. I do still rate him though, when he's at his best.
Guyver
Was dreading the second half, but actually looked better than Arsenal for large periods. Strange game. 11 vs 11 we looked dominant. But god do we miss a playmaker, Carroll looked better than Hudd.
Tactically Challenge
Impact sub for me just like Defoe if we have true aspirations! Sure he's been around a long time for us and is a favourite but if he was that good and given our track record why has nobody come in for him of the top clubs??!! I see people worried about losing Lloris, Verts, Dembele, Sandro and Bale but nobody has ever been worried about losing Lennon and that said Defoe either, there's a very simple reason - they are ultimately not of the quality top clubs want! If we want to join them we need to address the limitation's we have and improve on them and for me he is becoming a limitation due to always being a starter and producing little from a position from which should be producing a lot!
El Jefe
Good effort with 10 men from the 17th minute! Disappointed with Ade's uneccessary red card, as we had control of the game at that time, typical strikers tackle. As much as I think Hudd is too slow, his game has improved since the start of the season, but still a sub for the future in my opinion. Gallas I believe along with many others has become too slow now. I would rather see Dawson playing in his place. I thought Verts head dropped for about 10 minutes during the game but came back which was good to see. Sandro as usual was 'full steam ahead'. Bales goal was fantastic, shame Defoe missed the perfect cross.
mountainyid
and I forgot, Carroll looked sharp, if he continues to improve he is going to be a fantastic playmaker!
mountainyid
Mc - very rarely is he at his best these days! Agree on his day can be a terrible burden on any left back but these are now few and far between! Used to love lil' Lennon but if we go 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 etc he is simply not productive enough as in such systems the onus is on production on an attacking level without defensive responsibility!
El Jefe
"Sandro is going to boss Cazorla! No doubt about that" @Tactically Challenge Erm NO
iceman10
yep EJ, ironically, today was the system that maybe suited Lennon.. up until the 17th minute. Maybe the system's we've used over the last few years have been the main cause for him struggling to find his old form. Watching him these days is like watching a faded boxer, desperate to see him take people on like he once did.
Guyver
Why won't it let me post AVB out? Censorship? Not even I am allowed to speak my mind anymore.
RagingSpur
Thfc agree Defoe has done well this season, but my point though is we need a better calibre of striker to really push on just as we need a better calibre RW aswell. We have some excellent players like those I mentioned we might be worried about leaving sometime soon, we need to add to them if we want to keep progressing and get back where we belong amongst the big boys!
El Jefe
My preseason prediction is closer each week. We need to part ways with this idiot and get in a real coach who knows the PL better. He is taking is to the bottom and this team deserves much better. He ruined Chelsea and now he is ruining us.
RagingSpur
thfc1882whl - good sensible post and agree with it all...think though you have strayed onto the wrong site as blind prejudice rules here
Forever Spurs
$hit is an exaggeration BC, even if we upgrade on him, Lennon would still be an excellent squad player.
Guyver
As brilliant as Bale is and by far our best player, hope AVB has a word and reminds him about the "team" ethos of the game and how that helps bring results! Should have squared to Defoe who made a great little run behind his defender, that makes it 4-3 and by some minor miracle we are back in the game with still 15-20 mins to go and us on the ascendency. Does not mean we would have done it or Arse might not have scored again on the break but we would have had a chance and thats a fat more than what we had at half-time!
El Jefe
thfc....don't have sky sports, so can't watch a replay, but to me it just needed a foot suck out. Like crouchies goal against city in may 2010!
mountainyid
iceman10. Lol! Don't think Cazorla touched the ball for the first 18 mins. Not sure what happened to change that???!!! Sit down and shut up!
Tactically Challenge
After 12 games we are -1 goal differential and sitting in 8th and not playing at all better than we did at start of the season. Don't like my crying? Wake up and open your eyes and just admit AVB is the wrong man for the job already and say RAGING YOU ARE GOD! You know everything about football.
RagingSpur
oh, i forgot, Defoe only has short legs!
mountainyid
The worrying for me is that we will take a strong team to Lazio and then be knackerred for the West Ham game. If this game tells us anything, it is that we must bring the younger players in. No more Gallas, no more Dempsey and no more Freidal. Have faith in the youngsters AVB. Carroll looked good today, stick with him. And in January, look for young emerging talent and stop wasting time putting in insulting bids for players we have no chance of getting.
jonathan01
Goes without saying grates like hell losing and not necessarily because its to them, but just in general! One might argue we should be used to it by now but still hurts. Coming on here venting a bit of fury at Lennon has helped though and will stop this completely ruining my weekend. Looking forward to Strictly, or should that not be admitted on here, machismo and all that!
El Jefe
Please defend a 5-2 loss and how we played good for 18 minutes because that sure wins games.
RagingSpur
Raging - disagree but LOL!
El Jefe
When you play 4-4-2, your asking strikers to make tackles in midfield. I guess there is always a chance that they will get sent off trying to win a bouncing 50-50.
Tactically Challenge
Is there actually people criticizing AVB for losing this? Seriously, are you retarded?
Tactically Challenge
Ade is a complete idiot for that tackle, but overall is of the quality we need to aspire to in order to achieve things. Would go down well to see him fined the wages he would be picking up for the amount of weeks he is out - that should hopefully get him thinking a bit more!
El Jefe
Take it no one else is up for Strictly then?
El Jefe
I must say we are a very obliging team. Last week we played Man City into form and this week we did it with Arsenal!
jonathan01
Cant blame avb. IMO he made the right choice with the starting line up and the right changes at half time. You cant compensate for a moment of stupidity from ADE. What did worry me was the way we crumbled when going down to ten men. This has been a mentality of spurs for a while now and for AVB to try and change that mentality after 12 games is very difficult. Some times the players need to ask questions of themselves. AVB Is still learning and he is young, mistakes are going to happen. Imo this season is transition, we need to truly judge AVB ater he has had a few transfer windows.Saying that defeat to west ham next and the knives will be out.
spurfect one
With supporting and also not to mention owning a small stake in the club comes the right to criticise surely! Lennon is technically an employee of mine after all LOL!
El Jefe
I don't think it's a coincidence that we haven't seen the best of Lennon since Walker's been starting. We've seen more of Lennon tracking back and defending than taking on the defenders at the other end, which speaks volumes.
tengboon
This season is transitional. AVB is young and learning. Losing 5-2 to Arsenal is disappointing but acceptable at this stage. Life goes on.
dazzwater
spurfect one I didn't think they crumbled at all, as I raid earlier I thought they were slightly shell shocked, but I also thought they dealt with it really well. . I thought they fought pretty well. They were bound to leave holes because they were trying to take the game to arsenal. In doing so they got tired, but they carried on trying until the final whistle. We were the better team at times during the second half
chrishove123
Miss the good old years of inspired players and exciting football. 2009, 2010, 2011. Would have gone for a drink but I have work to do today.
dazzwater
What's the point of finger-pointing? Does it matter if we blame Ade for the red card, or Gallas and Walker for poor marking, or AVB for lack of immediate action after the sending off, or Levy for sacking Redknapp after three good years? Life goes on. What will be will be.
dazzwater
Chris what i meant by "crumbled" was conceding goals not our overall display. Im not saying we should have won or even drew but conceding so quick after going down to ten men shows we cant cope with the transition quick enough to adjust properly, its been like that for a while at spurs to be honest. Thought AVB was first class today even though we lost, he made the right choices with his starting line up and subs.
spurfect one
thfc, already criticised him aswell mate, in fact if you read above you will see I think he should be fined for as long as he sits out - hit them where it hurts - in no walk of life does anybody like being hit in the pocket even if they are happy/content/satisfied with an inadequate or poor decision/job, etc! Now you might say everybody makes mistakes, etc but there is no excusing going to ground with a foot raised at around knee level - plain and simply asking to be sent off - so suffer the consequences of your action's because your team-mates, manager, fans and share-holders had to suffer them even more!
El Jefe
the good news is we have still not fielded our strongest 11, and with lloris to feature more and with kaboul, BAE, parker and dembele all to come back we could have a stronger second half to a season for once. i just hope we can get through the next home games without ade because defoe is not the solution especially at home
Guernman
I agree AVB picked a good side today and hopefully he will not be disheartened by the result as 4-4-2 was working as showed by the first 15 minutes where we dominated and went ahead! Hopefully he persists with Ade and Defoe (once silly bugger becomes available again) because with our current squad it is the best solution!
El Jefe
sperfect one We did not have that defeatist mentality with the previous manager, although we did have that with the earlier teams under Graham, Gross, and even Jol at times. With the earlier manager we would come back to draw 4-4 and win 3-2. But what's the point of reminiscing? We are what we are now. Think that mentality is starting to get to me.
dazzwater
Guernman totally agree as said yesterday cannot wait to have a fully fit squad to pick from and then hopefully some signings come Jan to add to that. Demps for me now Ade is out, think he is capable of scoring goal's especially in games where we can dominate like we should at home! Stick with 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 and slot Demps in for Ade for the time being!
El Jefe
With Demps we need the wingers to do their job, carry the ball and make crosses, he will get on the end of things and score goals just like he did at Fulham. What we cannot expect from him though is to carry the ball himself or be a passmaster etc because simply he is not that type of player. Until we get Dembele back and add a quality playmaker we need some serious effort from the wings, personally I know we can count on Bale for that, but the jury as always is out on Lennon IMHO!
El Jefe
Guernman that is good news indeed. With Dembele we will be going places. It's just disappointing that our coach doesn't have a backup plan when we're missing our key players. Hopefully we won't devolve to the days of using injuries as an excuse. Darren Anderton anyone.
dazzwater
Well at least Jose is fed up at R Madrid.. his 16 yr old daughter starting at Art coll. in London... rumors are he is going back to chavs... or will he arrive at spurs???
Block D Spurs
in fairness I thought AVB did well today...he went for it at half time, as far as we could, so no complaints on that front. Shame Ade threw it away, now we are light on the striker front. We've learned Gallas is slow and easily bullied in the air, Daws may be slow but he's as good in the air as any...we desparatley need re-inforcements or we have no chance of top4....if so see you later Bale!
shedboy2
Dazz thats true we did have a lot of good come backs during harry's reign. But i still remember us conceding goals quick when we went down to ten men under harry. I suppose you need a lot of grit when your backs are against the wall and in that situation these set of players dont give me confidence. Scott parker is a big miss but can we really rely on him to come straight back and give the same performances?
spurfect one
1882..we talked about this before about Lloris and Friedel. Picking a team today there is not much between them, but Lloris is the future, and that game today will blood him well. But like you I find the crucifying of Friedel totally beyond belief.
jacobslad
Personally would like the same thing Thfc, some quality signings in Jan, in fact even just one if it was a top quality one as that is what we need to add to improve - no more squad filling as such! Ade - silly, silly boy but still a quality player and easily our best forward. He was brilliant last season, this season agree should have kept himself fit for starters and today was very stupid. ACN does not help one bit, hope they get knocked out of it ASAP! Surely though that means we'll be buying another forward in Jan as cannot be expected to go upto a month plus with just Defoe??!!
El Jefe
Ok here i go before ade got sent off we was all over them. We must take this on the chin those red nose mugs know we had them. Ade should have got a yellow but webb likes to be in the papers. I like what AVB done second half if the bale shot/ cross goes in there bums would have gone. They are s##t. Come on boys the future is bright those gooner mugs are just papering over the very large cracks. In arsene they trust. mugs.
Yido T
No.9 shirt vacant - wait leave it to me - I'll get on the direct shareholder line to Levy and let you know the result ASAP!
El Jefe
thfc1882whl - If he put in the performance Lloris did then yes, he would deserve all the plaudits. Friedal is a very good keeper, and has had some good games this season. I respect him for keeping up his level of ability for such a long time, and I personally think giving Lloris time to settle was a good idea. However, Lloris in my opinion is in the top 10 keepers in the world, arguably top 5 and I think his time has come to play regularly, it will settle the defence and give him confidence, especially after playing so well today.
rahn DMC
What we need is to get a really good squad, like WBA, have a settled coach, like WBA, have lots of money to spend, like WBA...oh forgot they have none of that. It's just that we are unlucky / have lots of injuries / have bad referees / always choose the wrong tactics / score too early in the game - pick any of those excuses and use rotationally
Forever Spurs
@ Spursteve, yesterday mate, a beautiful baby girl. Thank you for your kind words.
Cape Town Spurs
We have to start playing players where they are best at playing. AVB has to grasp the nettle. We have to think FUTURE. Ade is NOT a support striker/attacking midfielder, as we all saw with his awful attempt at trying to be one. He should have led the line and Defoe left out and Carroll in. Defoe wont be here next year. Nor Gallas, nor Dempsey, nor Hudd. Love them all. We gotta build a team for the next season and the one after that.
jacobslad
I hear you "forever" but then what is the problem and that will ultimately lead us to the answer? And on a side note, if I've been rude or *****ed any one off on this site, unless you're a troll or a compete and utter (fill in the words yourself) then I apologize. I love this site, love the banter, and love being among fellow yids (Black Lawyers Assoc VS can put you in touch with me)... out if interest if I am Jewish do I get a reprieve? Nite all, and phuck it.
Cape Town Spurs
"avb is on thin ice now. Hes destroying lloris by putting him in for this beating". LMFAO Jimmy-Yid, yeah, it was all AVB's fault for giving people what they wanted.....(unt.
Crissybwoy
I forgot you too RagingSpur....(unt.
Crissybwoy
Forever Spurs, theres always 1 club that does much better than expected early on, this year its West Brom, they won't last.
Guyver
friedel would not have saved any of the goals today, but nor did lloris make any saves that friedel would definitely not have made, lloris' distribution was better though, for instance lennon's shot off the post came from a quick and accurate long pass from lloris that friedel would never have made. more than anything though, lloris represents a large investment by the club, so we should be putting his future before brad's remaining months. i still admire friedel as the consummate professional that he is. Lloris did not deserve todays scoreline though, he didnt make any obvious mistakes and he deserves to start the next PL game
Guernman
Agree Mc, no way will West Brom last! It'll be Arse in 4th and us in 5th most probably. To avoid that and get 4th we need all our injured players back quick smart, some continuity, a bit of luck and perhaps 1-2 quality additions in January! Probably too much to roll into our favour in such a short space of time so we'll probably be looking at 5th - won't really be that disappointed as that was were I saw us finishing at the start of the season as said on here, indeed I think HOT can back me up on this as we were both in agreement that we were probably not good enough to get back into top 4 this season! Said last night or the other night cannot exactly remember when, we might arguably have a top 4 side but certainly not a top 4 squad and these recent losses have fully shown that to be the case!
El Jefe
As I said the other day, im just glad Lloris is starting now, because if Friedel started and conceded 5 times, most of this thread would be about how Lloris would have saved 2 or 3 of the 5 goals, and again, the more important aspects of the game would have been overlooked.
Guyver
Adebayor will be happy with his goal bonus
rojo2010
I would like to lodge a complaint against crissyboy.
RagingSpur
I forgot if you are not pro-AVB you are not allowed to state your opinion on this site due to regulations of other peoples beliefs
RagingSpur
Bring back Harry!
MrSpurs
thfc1882whl, you would expect west brom to fade because their squad is not strong enough to realistically mount a top 4 challenge while the players are not experienced at those dizzy heights. this is not an attack on west brom, but a realistic assessment. and yes, history, experience and squad depth also suggests arsenal will finish ahead of spurs too. these are the more likely scenarios, of course anything is possible
Guernman
so sir alex couldn't remember pilkington from his time at old trafford, I think he will remember him now if norwich see this out
Guernman
I don't want to get on Lloris because we are a man down and he did make a couple of saves but outside of that talking him up as if he is world class keeper is a little bit ridiculous because he did fairly little to say so. He wasn't responsible for the goals but he could have done better on getting a hand on a few.
RagingSpur
If you are going to look at history than go look at AVB history if he was able to take a 1st place team to 6th than what will he do to a 4th place team? 8th place seems like a high point. We simply SUCK! From the start of the season to today there is not a single positive thing to highlight week in and week out. We have had flashes here and there and never to be seen again. AVB is the worst and that is as nice as I can put it. The fact that you still want to stand behind a man who isn't good enough for the job is your issue but I cannot sit here and imagine him doing a 180 and becoming the SAF that you all dream so hard of. I'll be shocked if he is here after January let alone the end of the season. Time to take this flop out of the PL and keep him out.
RagingSpur
Fed up with these types of score lines. West Ham is must win.
MrSpurs
thfc1882whl, the size of their squad, the ability of their players, the "form is temporary class is permanent" saying. Ipswich, Blackpool, Sunderland, Swansea, we've seen it all before. The season is a marathon, can't see West Brom finishing top 6. They'll finish around mid table, same as last year. They won't keep their current form up.
Guyver
But thfc1882whl, if you'd like to put an audacious stake on Betfair for a West Brom top 6 finish, you'll certainly find a counter offer to match your bet :)
Guyver
Well what's to say, some of us have seen this coming. When you stop playing the relegation contenders, and start playing the better sides, the true calibre of the team and it's manager are seen. Yes we had a bloke sent off (a Striker by the way). I suppose given the state of modern football, where physical contact, and the blood and guts tackling of a mans game, have all but been outlawed from the game (mores the pity), and given the referee was the ardent Spurs supporter Howard Webb (who gives us feck all anyway), it was always going to be a red card after Cazorla's 9/10 mark for artistic impression (he wasn't really dead, he carried on). The problem was after the "Red" we defended like Hartlepool Utd. we didn't mark people, we didn't get challenges or tackles in, we lost headed duels, we conceded poor goals. This was probably the first time this season when AVB's natural defensive mentality needed to come to the fore, but it just didn't happen, we got stuffed, we were an embarrassment, it couldn't have been much worse if a CB or MFer had been sent off instead of a striker. We now have West Ham, and Liverpool at home, and Fulham away, all teams that are playing well, we have now lost 3 PL games on the bounce, we will be without a striker option for 3 games, and we are just not looking or playing like a Spurs team. We are now 8th and slipping, and a top 4 or 5 place looks miles away, and it is a long way to the January window, although that doesn't matter, given tight arsed Levy's record in recent windows, so come on AVB time to earn your corn son, we have had the false dawn against the bottom 6, now we have to play the proper teams, and get results without excuses an sob stories.
Frank
mate, i wouldnt want to take a fellow Spurs fans money like that! To be fair, I just remembered Ipswich's form did hold up quite well that season, didnt they qualify for the UEFA Cup, then get relegated soon after... That was an anomaly.
Guyver
Frank, so we got the relegation contenders out of the way. Are you including West Brom and Norwich amongst the contenders? Because if you are, you are overlooking the fact that they respectively beat Chelsea and Man U today. As for today until Ade's rush of blood we were doing what you and the merchants of doom having been asking for, taking the game to a full strenght Arsenal. And MrSpurs, bring back Harry you say. Are you talking about the Harry that squandered a two goal lead on the way to a 5-2 defeat, without the excuse of playing with 10 men? At least AVB had the guts to give it a go in the face of a hammering and had Bale not being selfish and squared to Defoe at 4-3 they would have been rocking.
ItalianYiddo
who said bring back Harry? Like Levy is going to swallow his pride? AVB is Levy's project, his "chosen one". AVB leaves Levy with no way back. AVB was Levy's Choice, Levy's Baby, if Levy sacked AVB he would have to fall on his own sword! but, Levy has to balance the books first before he balances the side. That is why we have Dempsey, that is why we keep Gallas and that is why we have siggy, anonymous players with anonymous abilities. Its not AVB's fault that Levy aint prepared to buy the players that AVB nees to be successful, AVB cant work with a team that cost £60m he is only used to the £220m + teams so dont ask AVB for his resignation....today he gave it his best shot, at half time, having discovered that Naughton was always going to be skinned by Walcott, he played 3 at the back. But Hey! the fact that we fans all knew that Naughton was going to be skinned by Walcott when we saw the team sheet does'nt matter, what the hell! AVB has to learn his lessons. After all, AVB is a Project, work in progress, give him time, let him get the full squad back and then lets see the real Spurs...the real performances, lets see the performances that AVB can really get out of the team. Lets face it, it wasnt AVB's fault that Bale had a baby and couldnt play so we got stuffed by Chelski...it wasnt AVB's fault that we had Adebyour sent off and let 3 goals in in the space of 10 minutes and it wasnt AVB's fault that we drew with Norwich and WBA and lost to Wigan, at home! So what if WBA beat Wigan at the DW the following week, we are in "transition" aren't we?..We have faith in AVB dont we?..he was the right choice.. he had to be better than Harry because AVB is more tactically better than HR? after all AVB is going to take us to the "next level" ....AVB will lead us to our Jerusalem, our promised land, our faith in Levy and AVB is a journey...the only problem is, its a never ending journey...there is no promised land, just more roads and more journeys.....we are a self fulfilling prophecy and so is AVB, and so is Levy....between the two we are mid table mediocrity, at least I can say thank you to Harry Redknapp for at least giving us a taste of the big time and some fantastic football to watch along the way!....4th Place this season? dont hold your breath! thanks Daniel....looking forward to January only trouble is ...which January?
OyVeh Maria
Does anyone know when our injured 4 are back?
woodyn17
Arsenal had a full strenghth side today, we had four first choice players out and until Ade's act of folly we were more than a match for them. How does this make AVB a poor coach? I have said before I gave Redknapp two years before coming to the conclusion that he was tactically out of his depth at Spurs, can't we give AVB our support for a season before we pass judgement? As fans of THFC it's our duty. COYS
ItalianYiddo
Thank you Harry Redkrapp? He did nothing. It was all down to Modric, VDV, our full squad who did all the work, and the real mediocrity that the "top 4 teams" showed in the last years...
dcruzer
AVB is not a numty. He is well versed as a coach but he can't perform miracles if his team makes silly mistakes and is composed of a few players that just can't cut it at the top. He can't stop stupid unintentional fouls, or make some player do something he is not able to like making Sandro as fast as Lennon. He is only able to select a good team and direct players' football tactics. Beyond that, it's up to the player to execute the coach's directive as best he can. But if a player can't or doesn't want to, like greedy Defoe or Walker with persistent lack of creativity or even Lennon lack of confidence for goalwards shot, then there is nothing else AVB/coach can do but wait for Levy to get the players with right mind sets and skills to improve the team.
dcruzer
Raging I saw plenty of postitves today. The main one being that under HR we would have collapsed totally and gone down by 7 or eight if that had happened. As it was, we pulled aq goal back and took a couple whilst we worried them. Great never say die attitude today. I think AVB is winning the batttle to give the whole squad confidence.
chrishove123
Raging, lodge a complaint against me by all means, you suck the life out everything, you must be the fun and joy of the party with your constant sniping. Harry lost 5-2 to Arsenal with all our best players and 11 men, I say this tongue in cheek but at least getting the same result with 10 men for over 70 minutes is progress. Sack AVB and bring in who? Barry Chuckle is out of work at the minute, as you share so many of your ideologies and philosophies with him he'd be the ideal candidate, for you.
Crissybwoy
AVB has had an unlucky start to the season really. Stuffed by Levy in the transfer window and then has 1st team players out with injury. I believe most supporters on this site back AVB, which is refreshing. Good display with only 10 men for almost 80 minutes. Good substitutions, with players available and I like that his excuse after the game is not 'it was one of those days'. Could not have expected any more today, would have liked JD to have reached the 'what i call a bale cross' for a 4-3 scoreline, anything could have happened after that. Only player who let the side down today was Ade, shame because he was looking good. Will lose him now for the next 3 games taking us to December and shortly after that off to the ANC.. Sweet!
mountainyid
For the record Raging, I sincerely apologise, for my honesty.
Crissybwoy
I want AVB to do well and today he did his best. He really did. It wasn't his fault. I don't care if we lose at the Emirates and to Chelsea and Manchesters as long as we can win any other match in the premiership. We need to beat west ham, liverpool and fulham. It's a tough task with so many injuries. I feel for AVB because even with his mistakes he would have done better if he had all our players available. It will be tough to finish 4th this season, especially if we don't improve in January. Yes Harry gave us some great times but do you really think he would do better than AVB in the current circumstances? no modric or vdv and bae, kaboul, dembele, parker all injured... we are what we are we stand where we stand. if there is a problem besides injuries, is the fact that we did not buy what was needed. Fans should back avb and the players because they are doing the best they can, they really are trying their best even if they make mistakes, BUT if there is someone to be booed is Levy and Co because he could have done much better
logos8
Oyveh Maria, what a great post, a nice balance between irony and the stark truth of the situation we find ourselves in, as you say we are heading for Mr. Levy's comfort zone, mid table mediocraty, it's cheaper there.
Frank
Crissybwoy, it's something to say that we must keep AVB irrespective of his performances, and results achieved, because if we sacked him "who will we get". I'll tell you something if we put the advert in the window see how many applications we would get. AVB is not our last resort by a long way, don't worry about that for one minute. An it wouldn't be Barry Chuckle.
Frank
Chris Hughton springs to mind !
DevonSpurs
What happened today will test Levy's committment to a successful THFC to the limit. Adebayor will now miss 3 PL games and then almost immediately go off to the ACN. Let Levy prove me and others wrong, and go out and buy us the top quality striker we are now more desperate for than ever, or let him fail to do so, and prove us right, that he is incompetent, inept, and a chairman lacking the ambition, the committment, the drive, and the bottle to take this club forward. The ball is in your court Mr. Levy, are you going to measure up or bottle it and prove what many of us have believed for a long time. Get on the phone to Dr. No, and tell him it is time to get his hand down.
Frank
.....dont want to see the highlights I left the emirates when they went 4 up...ask the fans, remember them? the one's that pay £45.00 or more to see our team get stuffed, try being in Holloway Road with the Scum chants ringing in your ears......forget bragging rights try living with the embarrassment of yet another 5 - 2 ......Italian yiddo you have to be kidding me do you know how phucked off N17 is with Levy?
uknowhatImeanharry
I would say that it was refreshing to come on here and not read 3 outta 4 posts ripping the ****e out of our keeper, but I know that if Brad had been in goal that Would have been the case, and I find that sad. Also, anyone blaming AVB for this should just get a life (Raging Spur, you are prominent in this criticism). We finally get the formation so many have been cribbing about -- and we looked great -- until Ade's moment of madness. Fair play to all the posters who stuck up for AVB. COYS and come On Carl Froch!!
SpursEagle
Bring back .. super pav... he is a striker and goal scorer... we need him...
Block D Spurs
Man, Froch is on fire! Bring on Kessler, then a rematch with Ward ... back to Spurs. Block D, I actually think that's a good point. Always felt Super Pav was under-used. We really are rueing Harry's isolation policy of certain players right now.
SpursEagle
I notice with some amusement that having conceded 5 goals there is hardly any mention of the GKer. If that had been Friedel he would have been absolutely crucified. He might even allow himself a wry smile.By the way SpursEagle, if we were prepared to blame Ramos and Redknapp for every failure, why should AVB not get the same treatment, he is the coach, the buck stops with him.
Frank
Frank: I never blamed Ramos. I was gutted when Jol was sacked but felt that Levy should have stuck by the decision he made. Instead, I think he took the easy way out. As for Harry? I'm not and never have been anti-Harry -- but looking at our squad now I feel he made a massive mistake in isolating players like Kranjaer and Pav. I don't understand the reason why Jol was sacked to this day: I felt cheated when Levy gave up on a man he head hunted. Harry had his faults (don't we all) but I've never slated him. And I've been a firm supporter of AVB since I joined here. So, Frank, what exactly is your point again?
SpursEagle
So what is the answer? We need a manager who is good enough to take us forward. A great chance was missed at the end of last season. So we are stuck now with a manager who may or may not get better, may or may not adapt. I think we have enough decent players to make top 4 especially as all the top clubs are vulnerable. But the chances are we will not finish top 8 this season. We just have to lower our expectations and realise that we have been overtaken by several clubs and as they get more money we will drop further behind.
Forever Spurs
forgetting about today, team for lazio: lloris, walker, dawson, vertonghen, naughton, sandro, carroll, lennon, dempsey, bale, defoe. we don't really have much choice than to go with that eleven; I'd take a point on thursday, wouldnt be a bad result, all we'll need to do is beat the greeks at home and its job done. As for west ham on sunday, we need the win. Today was in improvement, in both effort from the lads and tactical bravery from AVB, ade's recklessness phucked it all up and took away a win that would have surely came our way had it not been for that moment of madess. But we need the results, we can be playing like barca for all I care but if we don't get the results it's no use. We need to start getting results, starting on Thursday. COYS!!!
COYS_TSB
#thfc1882whl: Spot on mate! The common denominator is the impatience of both owners and fans. Since our last long-term manager, the Legend keith Burkinshaw, we have had 13 managers, at an average of 2 2/3 years per term. And that is not including the caretaker partnership you mentioned, or Pleat(3 times), Hughton, Shreeves, Livermore, Clemence, Perryman, Allen as caretakers. Can we please, just for once, give a manager a proper f***ing chance!!
SpursEagle
thfc1882whl -- Again, spot on. For me, the buck stops with the owners. The sooner we, as Spurs fans realise that, and stop our almost patented knee-jerking towards the manager and the players we have, the better. The only thing I can give credit to Levy is the new training facility. New stadium? Pah! I'll believe it when I set foot in it! As for selling on our players? Right again, bruv! This latest talk of Utd's interest in Sandro has alarm bells ringing for me: Because I can just see Levy and Lewis, gazing longingly at each other, both with £'s in their eyes
SpursEagle
thfc1882whl -- lmao Now I have an image of Levy, with a bad wig, chomping a cigar, hosting an episode of Dan'll Fix it! damn you for that image, I'm now officially scared for the rest of my life! If I wake my little ones for screaming in the night, I'm blaming you!
SpursEagle
Well, you did bring it on yourself. I've no sympathy for you (not after that image!) so maybe you should pack a case and lie low for a while! Just stay away from my gaff! lol
SpursEagle
Well, I actually call it the Berba-Carrick training center, as Utd paid for it. But yeah, I didn't think of the money to be made by selling the old TC. Damn, Levy and Lewis are milking it.
SpursEagle
Ha ha! I'll be up early to buy a copy! Laters mate
SpursEagle
Give AVB credit, he stood tall on the touchline made some good subs apart from Dempsey! dropped the W.anky Yank, ADE getting sent off ruined the game ... still think it was a yellow but due to the game and the pressure Webb buckled good job he didn't wipe his brow with his Arsenal shirt ... lets move on a loss is a loss yeah frustrating it is to Arsenal but we lost there last season 5-2 and still got 4th ... Lloris is to remain in goal he may of shipped in 5 but he showed his worth yesterday AVB needs to stick by him get shot of the yank in Jan and look at investing in new strikers have no confidence in Defoe as he will go off form very soon he is hit and miss. well done AVB made me happy as said standing tall taking it on the chin! onwards and upwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E17YID
Give AVB credit, he stood tall on the touchline made some good subs apart from Dempsey! dropped the W.anky Yank, ADE getting sent off ruined the game ... still think it was a yellow but due to the game and the pressure Webb buckled good job he didn't wipe his brow with his Arsenal shirt ... lets move on a loss is a loss yeah frustrating it is to Arsenal but we lost there last season 5-2 and still got 4th ... Lloris is to remain in goal he may of shipped in 5 but he showed his worth yesterday AVB needs to stick by him get shot of the yank in Jan and look at investing in new strikers have no confidence in Defoe as he will go off form very soon he is hit and miss. well done AVB made me happy as said standing tall taking it on the chin! onwards and upwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E17YID
It was as clear as night follows day that it was a studs up red card. Thankfully he missed and no injuries. Spurs were spanked, get over it.
johnkelv
actually dawn folllows night then day the dusk then night ... it was a yellow card if it had not been such an important fixture.
E17YID
actually dawn folllows night then day the dusk then night ... it was a yellow card if it had not been such an important fixture.
E17YID
Carzola milked it to make sure Ade got sent off, there was little contact, I remember the days when a foul may have not been given. Having said all of that Ade is the only guilty part in giving Carzola and Webb the opportunity to see him off.

We know Webb is a poor referee, if anyone thinks otherwise have another look at the Spain-Holland final. A good referee would have given him a yellow and a stern warning because he could see there was an attempt to play the ball and no injury to Carzola, a good referee would have not ruined a game which was poised to be a classic. I have no sympathy for any player that deliberetely causes injury, in Adebayor's case there was a misguided attempt to go for the ball. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
Sorry to have a pop here but Totspur 13 has just optimised the clueless criticism aimed at AVB. Blaming a "High Line" defence for that result is simply regurgitating a tabloid criticism of his Chelsea days with no foundation in the game or goals we've just witnessed. Considering the first 3 goals came from ball into our crowded penalty area how exactly does that point to a high line being an issue!? Sorry again but this is the type of bull***** I can't stand reading. AVB picked the side most critics have been crying for and we looked far the better team until Ade's brainless and quite frankly self centered antics. This is certainly one game AVB can't be criticised for.
MJBSpur
In fact Totspur13 would you care to elaborate on how a "high" line cost us 5 goals yesterday? Ill give u a bit of time to reply as I expect u'll need sky sports or the sun to explain to u what a high line means first.
MJBSpur
Apparently our manager says "we were in conrol from the first minute to the last" and "we were the better side". Not only does he appear to be struggling, he may well be seriousy dillusional as well. This must be the first time in PL history that a team "completely bossing the game" has lost 5-2. It's no wonder him and Levy get on, one thinks he is a DOF and a wizard of the transfer market, and the other thinks we have completely controlled a game we have just lost 5-2, they are both as daft as each other.
Frank
Spurs Eagle in answer to your question re blaming the coach. We rightly in my view blamed Ramos for our 2 points from 8 games start that had it been maintained would have resulted in season's total of some 10 points and, relegation. Then along came HR who managed to recover things, so that we finished comfortably in the top half, followed by 4th, 5th, 4th place finishes, plus a QF place in the CL (the best ever by a newcomer), but on here he was blamed fo every ill at THFC, and every lost game attracted vitriolic criticism. We now have AVB who is undergoing a less than ideal start, we are 8th and sliding downwards, every possible excuse is being made for him,in spite of not only results, but a quality and type of football not suited to a Spurs side, and apparently we are not allowed to criticise him, or apportion blame, as we have with previous coaches. Your point re. Martin Jol is well made, his sacking at the time it happened was utter madness, having just achieved 2 succesive 5th place finishes, wih a mediocre squad. Unfortunately this and 7 other missguided managerial appointments, and dismissals, are the price we pay for having a non football person pretending to be a club chairman, and DOF.
Frank
I can only think that Lev y has long term plans and the stadium is one of them as was the new training ground. This may be why he is being careful with money. If we look at things optimistically in five years time we could be challenging, bigger stadium, more revenue, ability to pay higher wages and attract bigger players.

When a project like a new stadium you have to prepare for the unexpected in a sense the hidden costs, every big project has pitfalls along the way, look at the Olympic games the costs increased and increased. So maybe Levy is saving some dosh for any potential pitfalls, hidden costs and not just leave it to chance that the stadium will get built on the figure given, nothing runs smoothly in construction industry.

In the last few years we have gone from a mid table team to a challenging top four team. Now it may look as though we are going backwards on the field and missing out on CL last season BUT progress is never linear in any project. There is always one or two steps back or side ways and it is how you respond to those steps that brings progress. So have faith and be patient.

I think the problem we have as fans and that includes me is that is exactly what we are 'fans', where our heart rules our head and we are impatient and want success at all costs. That is what being a fan is all about, we love the game and our team so much we want it to be beautiful, successful, the best and there is nothing wrong with that BUT we have to understand the bogger picture and how we get there.

If we looked at other successful projects outside football and investigated how they became successful most of them will show us that it took time and success and progress wasn't linear or easy. We would accept that because we would be looking at it from a different perspective, not from a fans eyes and heart where emotions run high. We would SEE things more clearly and be more patient.

Patience has many layers just has all virtuous minds. Supporting Spurs gives us lots of opportunity to practice patience, how wonderful is that for the soul.

I myself so much want Spurs to be challenging and at times become very unsure if Levy has made the right decision but in actual fact are there any right or wrong decisions? Is it not our mind that label everything as good or bad, does it really matter? Every decision we make in our lives are opportunity for us to learn and progress, so it is no different for Levy, the players, the board the fans. So we choose whether we remain positive or become negative, its our journey. This doesn't mean we don't have desires and ideas as to what we want for Spurs but is it really ruling our life and is it really the most important thing in our life?

I love Spurs and have done for over forty years but it is a ride, a journey and as much as I want us to be PL, CL champions I want to enjoy the ride, the uncertainty, the rollercoaster ride without labelling it good or bad lol I wish I could but it takes time to see things clearly so I am work in progress, and so is Spurs FC.
thfan
Rumours coming out of Madrid suggesting Modric is coming back in january on loan?
spu 4 life
Patience? 21 years since we won a meaningful trophy. Mine's wearing thin.
ParkLaneBB
Money spent on a new state of the art training ground, Money to be spent on a new state of the art stadium, What about a training ground that produces state of the art players, who can play football in a state of the art stadium. Only problem is, only one of these long term projects has been completed, we are still a long way off a new stadium, with however many seats it's going to have, and currently we are even more looking in the distance, away with the fairys, in producing a team, worthy of both. The new training ground was on the back burner years ago, same goes for the new stadium, what got over looked was producing a football team able to challenge for honours in todays current hurly burly of football's money no object merry go round. Yesterday was nothing short of your worst nightmare, mainly because it was them, of all teams stuffed out of site like your christmas turkey, be it with ten men or like last seasons away game 5pur2, so the jokes will surface, the T shirts will get printed, but it's once again engraved in the heart of all of us, we don't need a T shirt to feel the hurt yesterday gave us. Ade got sent off, so that's football, but in january to feb next year he will be away with Togo in the ANCup, leaving us with just Dempsey and Defoe, any injury to one or both, then what, Levy may have had a long term project to get a state of the art training ground, we have it, his long term project of a new stadium, great more of us can perhaps get a ticket, but the part over looked is the TEAM, the squad when fully fit is a good one but it still needs new players of quality, not squad players, players who can step up to the mark and be first team players and then AVB finally finds his best team, another long term project yet to be completed. it just goes on and on, everything is long term.
spu 4 life
Frank, you talk a lot of baloney a bit too often mate. You can blame a coach for 2 points from 8 games, but do you seriously think we were going to get relegated? Levy panicked after pulling the rug under his feet by selling the best striking partneship we have had for ages, Berba and Keane, we had Modric struggling to get to grips with PL football, he was trying to steady the ship and IMO he would have done. Ramos managed to win trophies in Spain and one for us so he must know a little about coaching. The same thing applies to AVB, two of our key players are sold, VDV and Modric. Kaboul, Parker, Dembele, Ekotto and for most of the season so far Adebayor are injured but we still manage to do what Redknapp could not do with the best squad we had for years, beat Man U at Old Trafford, minutes away from a point to the multi million pound City and having the better of Arsenal until Ade's folly. I would have thought you are old enough to know that any coach needs time to built a team to his way of playing unless you throw millions at the team a la City and Chelsea, but in your case the chemistry of wisdom and age has gone wrong. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
It was daft of AVB to say we controlled the game.We controlled it up to a point for the first 19 minutes then we struggled for the remainder of the game.You can't lose 5-2 and say you "won" the game.Once Ade had foolishly sent himself off we were non-existent up front and except for a cameo run and goal from Bale we were no threat.Really disappointed still with Lennon--totally overshadowed by Walcott who shows a determination and a desire to score.Gallas is really showing his age now and is not good enough to captain or even play.Sandro,Verts and Bale are the only ones to automatically pick themselves.We are more desperate than ever for a goalscoring frontman.Levy's tight purse strings are ruining our chance for progress.Buying Dempsey is as bad as the other poor so called strikers like Rasiak and Pav.
wentworth
Italian Yiddo, how do you know that we would have not got relegated under Ramos, that's an opinion, the facts were suggesting otherwise. Regarding AVB, yes he has had problems, yes he won at OT, but unfortuntely one swallow a summer does not make. Yes he does need time, always assuming of course that he was the right choice in the first place, a matter on which th jury is very much still out, especially given his tenure at Chelsea, he still has to prove that that was a one off, and not a sign that his is unable to cope, and is suitable for the hurly burly of the English PL, which is a world away from La Liga or the Portugese league, as many high profile players have shown after having unsuccessfully tried to make the switch. None of this exempts AVB from criticism when he does strange things, as he has during several games this season, and talks absolute bollox after a game, as he did yesterday. Incidently Big C what he said was "we were always in control" an "we were the better side" there was no reference to 19 mnutes. So Italian Yiddo I have my opinion to which I am absolutely entitled and you have yours to which you are equally entitled, as far as I am concerned I respect yours, and would say neither of us is talking baloney, but perhaps some of us are less guilty of wishful thinking, and succumbing to propaganda, than others. Some toe the "party line" come what may, others look for the pitfalls, and what the facts suggest. We will see what the FACTS say come Christmas, and how far away from 4th place we are by then.
Frank
thfan- very eloquently put, I almost believed but tell me why will we be able to compete 5 years after building a stadium? how long will it take those extra 16k seats to pay off the cost of building? £250-450m? most of our revenue is not from gate receipts and if we had a little more success on the pitch and a half decent commercial team we'd make a lot more money....
shedboy2
Frank: You say how do we know we would not have been relegated? Then, by your own reasoning, how do you know we would have? Do you seriously think we would have finished that season on 10 points! Come on, man. Look, the thing that almost every Spurs manager has in common is guesswork & conjecture: This WOULD have happened, that MIGHT have happened etc ... for once I'd like to see something pan out. Give this manager a proper chance, and let him be judged on a few years, not barely one-third of a season. Otherwise, we'll be having the same damn conversation again and again ...
SpursEagle
Should have given Martin Jol more time. More success than there had been for a long time and still building. Levy and board stabbed him in the back. In came their man Ramos.
Harry brought even better results than BMJ, only to be treated in a similar manner.Bbr>Let's hope that we are not witnessing the beginning of another Ramos type disaster.
Hotspur 1882
 

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