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Enough is enough!

Enough is enough!

Its not AVB, its not Adebayor's poor form. Its not the high ticket prices, Levy's transfer policy or even Mark Lawrenson's shirts. Its the fact that some Tottenham Hotspur fans decided that we had to play both Defoe and Adebayor together. This complete lack of tactical knowledge and understanding from fellow Spurs fans is embarrassing, especially in 2012.

Of course the manager could of ignored the boo's and social media moaning. But his position has been under constant scrutiny since day one, and thus he can ill afford to ignore the fans. The fact that our fan's didn't see this and decided to heap even more pressure on him has been a major disappointment. Its a common mis-conception that 4-4-2 is a more attacking formation than 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1. This is a childish and ridiculous assertion. You have less possession in a 4-4-2 (due to having one less central player), how can you be more attacking while seeing less of the ball?

Our match against Stoke was a prime example of why you need to play one Striker in 2012. I personally counted 4 separate occasion in the match, where the ball rolled across the 'magic' zone (the area between the oppositions penalty spot and 18 yard line), and no player was present. Previously, Keane, VDV and now Sigurdsson would all of been attacking this important space, but with Defoe and Adebayor playing together, you have to play a flat midfield 4, which means there is no player in the No.10 role. This player would usually arrive in the oppositions box at the perfect time to finish these great chances.

In a 4-2-3-1 its obvious which player fullfils this role, in a 4-3-3 its slightly less obvious, but its split between two of the 3 central midfielders. I hope AVB ignores the boo boys and drops one of the two strikers, because quite frankly, 4-4-2 has about as much a place in modern day football as the back pass. Its about time our manager grew a pair, and implemented his favoured 4-3-3 with rotating positions. If you are unclear about this tactic, then please watch this video -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXWq34XByjc&list=FLA7M3jw2g75gXvCJk6QoS2A&index=3 After you have watched the above video and taken our performance against Stoke into account, I'm sure you will agree that its time to join the 21st century and dump the 4-4-2 all together.

Many Vital Spurs readers will already know much of what has been said in this article, but for those that don't, please consider what I say before you boo when AVB replaces Defoe with Adebayor, or moan on social media when we play one up top.

Written by Tactically Challenge



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:Tactically Challenge
Date:Sunday December 23 2012
Time: 9:55AM

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Comments

0
I have absolutely no issue with our playing both Ade and defoe, but I 100% agree with the fact that 4-4-2 leaves us far too exposed in the middle and also predictable. that formation is great when you have the time in the middle to dominate and spread play, but how often do we get that for differing reasons against the strong or weaker teams? for me, you either play one striker or one/none wide men, as I dont feel you can play two strikers and two wingers, something has to give at this level.
oxfordspur
23/12/2012 10:03:00
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One thing that has crossed my mind in recent games with Ade and Defoe is that they have stopped dropping deep and looking for the ball as much. I wonder if they feel it will ultimately turn into a situation where it is one of them and not the two. are they therefore playing for themselves at the expense of team play?
oxfordspur
23/12/2012 10:05:00
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It's becoming noticable how slowly spurs are starting their home games. Lack of urgency at the start of the match, allows the opposition to settle into their pre planned defensive tactics. They build confidence and fight to the death. When really a confident vibrant authorative home team would be at them right from the start. As we know, goals change games.
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 10:08:00
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Not sure how much difference the tactics make. Stoke have one of the tightest defences in the league.They play in their third, concede possession and defend in numbers. We simply didn't have the players to find a way through the wall. One thing we might have thought about was varying the player taking free kicks and corners. In the previous game I thought Walker's delivery was very good, but Bale took them all. When you're playing against a team like Stoke set pieces offer one of your best hopes of scoring and we had plenty of height. Its been one of our problems for a few seasons now that we are so poor at dead ball situations.
jod
23/12/2012 10:17:00
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it was also noticable and has been for a fair while, as well documented. That we lack that one top striker. Our subs bench was not well balanced, for yesterdays game. This keeps showing up. I for one, (plus my 11 year old son)......expect.... a decent top striker signing in january. No excuses.
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 10:18:00
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ade is the better all round striker and he is an ideal lone striker. we need to see the team with him up front alone. defoe is an ideal off the bench player. agree with the article, AVB was strong armed into playing them both by the fans who have made a difficult transition all the harder
Guernman
23/12/2012 10:20:00
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I would say that is is all too easy to be negative and pick holes in the team or manager after dropping two more home points, but was anyone surprised at Stoke being physical, wasting time and packing the defence and midfield as they have done and done very well for years? The only way we were going to get something from yesterday was to have a moment of brilliance, luck or to (I know it sounds obvious) but to score a goal to force stoke to push out
oxfordspur
23/12/2012 10:22:00
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Yes, i agree we have been poor, for a number of years on our set pieces. Considering how attacking and good we have been at gaining these attacking positions. This is inexcusable in the fact that this is what training and coaching is for...i.e..working on set pieces. At this moment in time....and having seen, townsend whip in ...left and right footed inswinging corners....equally good delivery. I'd be starting townsend on the right for lennon. It would do no harm to give the boy a try and have lennon on the bench. just my opinion, though.
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 10:25:00
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Very good article. Unfortunately there are too many load voices out there that haven't a clue how to assess a match and tactics. Their idea of tactics is putting a forward on means attack and putting a defender on means defend. It is difficulty to keep forwards happy when playing only 1 up top but its clear that playing the both of them isn't working.

Also I think Ox might be right in the speculation that Ade and Defoe both know long term we'll going to have to settle on 1 in a starting role and they are competing to be the point man rather than dropping deep.
MJBSpur
23/12/2012 10:26:00
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Great to see your post MJB, I have missed you!!!
oxfordspur
23/12/2012 10:31:00
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the future has to be in playing one out and out striker and two players that can support him and also bolster the midfield when required. there is the alternative of playing one in the hole behind two strikers, but for that it does force those behind to work extra hard to cover space and also you have still to consider the option of getting the ball to those strikers which for me was probably the biggest problem we have
oxfordspur
23/12/2012 10:34:00
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4,4,1,1....imo..has always been the best footballing system. can addy'...or defoe...do this well ??.......
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 10:36:00
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Agree with your article TC apart from I think it also depends on the team we're playing. Not all EPL teams play 4-4-2 but some still do and I think 2 strikers should be used against these. Yesterday showed how much we need that bit of magic from midfield and until we buy a playmaker who can consistently thread through tight, packed defences we will struggle. Just as a comparison:- Man City V Reading. EVEN with all their spending and all the creativity they have Citeh still had to rely on an IFFY goal in the last minutes to win!! So if Siggy's header had beaten Stoke's keeper in the last minute we would be in the same position as before yesterdays games, sorry we would be 3rd. Sometimes luck does take a hand in results.
longtimespur
23/12/2012 10:41:00
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Agree with you there it suited us for 10 minutes vs arsenal and hasn't since the reason is is because both strikers haven't scored and we've had injuries to bale I still feel it should be used for the next two games as we are playing two less defensive teams
Spursnoob
23/12/2012 10:42:00
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whilst I understand your sentiment...I can't agree that 442 is redundant...yes (thank god) the era of all teams lining up 442 against each other is over...formations must remain flexible to counter the other sides strengths. That said Ade and defoe as you state can't be allowed to play alongside each other up top whilst playing two wingers...one of them MUST drop deep....
shedboy2
23/12/2012 10:55:00
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Hopefully AVB will have now learned....Ade and Defoe IF they play together 1 MUST drop deep! No Brad and no Gallas= clean sheet.....I think it'll take him a while to realise that Parker and Sandro can't play together (if you have bale and lennon on the pitch) as we then have zero creativity....AND we need a striker!!
shedboy2
23/12/2012 10:59:00
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I always knew the fans would be to blame. What a useless lot we are for expressing opinions, especially if the manager agrees with them. Tactics are hugely over-rated if the players do not have the character and brains to implement them. We have too many players lacking in both departments at the moment. Those with character such as Sandro give their all for the whole game. Those with character and brains such as Vertonghen give their all and create chances that others are too slow to take. Some weeks we get lucky and some weeks we don't but yesterday illustrated the level we are at. If we are lucky enough to be in the top 4 at the end of the season on this form I will be surprised unless Levy buys some talent with character in the January window.....I jest of course.
Harry-Kari
23/12/2012 11:09:00
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So you think he played 4-4-2 because the fans demanded it ?
What a tw*t you really are & if AVB bows down to any pressure from the fans then he should be immediately sacked .
AVB is very single minded & makes his own decisions based on what he thinks will win the game .

That team & formation should have won the game but you can`t predict Lennon ,Walker & Adebayor were going to be so bad .Defoe was invisible because his career has been one career of massive inconsistency ,why managers always end up benching him ,too hot & cold .
Adebayor is looking a very bad & costly transfer ,not through his talent ,but his attitude .

In January we need to fix the right side as it`s not good enough ,the left side is breath taking .
And also a striker or even 2 .Defoe is not an every game striker & Adebayor cannot be relied upon to fight for the shirt that he does not care about .
AVB is doing well with what he has ,it`s Tactically Challenged who should be embarrassed pointing the blame at fans for a poor performance ,which in truth Spurs were still by far the better side ,sounds like Harry is disguise .
Possession may be 9 tenths of the law but it means nothing in football .The attacking threat has to come from everywhere ,not just the left .World class left & championship right
big cockeral
23/12/2012 11:22:00
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what a load of crap this article is.... just look at the team's record last season with a fit Ade and Defoe in tandem to show how great this formation can be.... last yr (due to need for move) Ade was willing to 'sacrifice' himself by drawing defenders away from Defoe and thus creating scoring chances, and Defoe even responded in kind (albeit less so) cos Vaart was in the wings ready to take his place.... this season the politics have changed and Ade especially is not willing to do the donkey-work so much and Defoe even less so for Ade.... 2 strikers together can have this problem whereby you can actually help in your partner outscoring you. it needs alot of ego-control to circumvent it.... in light of this, I now see AVB buying an established striker, to compete with and help ensure the main 2 'do the right thing' for the team's sake.... Bale's ego-trip is something else, but its more difficult to curtail it as the guy knows he's heading for bigger things in summer..
Viyyash-Ramosh
23/12/2012 11:27:00
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How many strikers do Man City (league champions) play, they often start with Aguero and Tevez (an unbeaten combination when starting together). There is too much emphasis on the mathamatics of systems and formations. If you play with one striker then firstly you need a striker with the strength, control, intelligence, and work ethic, to hold the ball, make decoy runs, and to occupy defenders, so as to make spaces for supporting mid field players to run into. You also need MFers who are prepared to run past the striker, get into goal scoring positions and finish. I am sorry to say I'm not sure we have either.
Frank
23/12/2012 11:29:00
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Yesterdays game was one we all thought we could win, but a lot of post's mentioned, it's going to be hard work and so it proved. Only thing is none of us are paid coaches of THFC, but did point out the solid defence they have, so during the week they must have watched some recent stoke games and how to break them down, once Lennon was taken off that door completely closed, getting round the back, Bale then kept over on the right. We had chances not enoughof them, but due to various reasons, they never went into the goal. It was very FRUSTRATING to watch, I'm certain we all watched trying to suck that ball into the stoke net, it never happened not the first time in my life and won't be the last. Defoe as mentioned is one yellow away from Suspension, Ade left out of the Togo squad for the ''FRIENDLY'' not left out of the ANC Squad, that's very much still in the balance. Getting the right player, if we do in the January window, the question i keep asking is why oh why have we never sorted out LEANDRO, maybe Levy has the answer and his just not interested or is it a done deal for 2013, one question we all will never know? So do we go into panic mode and try for LlORENTE, but we need someone and both are match winning players. IMO we are 2 players away from a very good side, to become a EXCELLENT side Mountinho or Eriksen, Leandro or ANOTHER.
spu 4 life
23/12/2012 11:32:00
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we do lack goals from Mid....Sandro, Dembele, parker and Lennon aren't going to get you many...
shedboy2
23/12/2012 11:34:00
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If, avb's / freunds tactical formation was 4,4,2...from the start....i.e..2 attacking strikers...(and i think it was). Then i am bewildered as to why addy was still on the pitch after 65 mins'. I.e....I cannot recall a single effort, from him...at the goal...to that time. (bar the ..i got my head on bales cross..effort) Poor from addy , as a striker. Poor from avb /co......not to have used their permitted allocation of 3 subs.
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 11:39:00
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82spurs.... your innocent comment just now has totally encapsulated just why Defoe and Ade may be competing against each other to score goals.... concluding that a forward's only valid contribution is the number of strikes HE has on goal, and not bothering about any other factor contributing to a win.... message to Defoe and Ade: don't bother to help the other out to score goals, cos the fans ultimately will only judge you on the goals YOU score, nothing else..... so dont drop off, don't link the play, don't draw defenders away from the other, just have a pot-shot at goal whenever possible, no matter how far away.
Viyyash-Ramosh
23/12/2012 11:46:00
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vr...please do not assault mr.Bale...about his so called ego.....or try to get him sold, before his time is up. Espec' after what we saw yesterday and given he has been out for last 3 games. Plus does his spurs duties to the full. My son ....is watching.......and has "bale" ..on the back of his shirt.
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 11:46:00
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if my striker..in a 4, 4, 2...set up..........i.e...2 strikers......has not had one decent effort on goal, after 65 mins'. I'd be subbing him. That said......i do think the addy / defoe combination ..has it's merits....and am not totally against it. BUT...when your player is not performing and you have others waiting for their chance. Siggy got 3 efforts on goal in less than 20 mins'...plus took corners.
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 11:50:00
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nobody else needs to try getting Mr Bale sold, as he seems to be marketing himself (or trying to) very well in showcasing how good his shooting is whether from 30yds, 35yds or even more.... the guy had more shots at goal than the strikers combined yesterday, and then some.
Viyyash-Ramosh
23/12/2012 11:55:00
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Tactically Challenge, Good article and agree! 4-4-2 just does not work in the modern game. But I am not going to blame AVB for this. Again the blame lies solely at the feet of the THFC director of football Daniel Levy, who personally decided to sale our star 'in the hole' player VDV because he wanted his money back on on him, with 2 years still remaining on his contract. And it was Levy who refused to provide AVB with the funds to to secure the signing of the world class 'in the hole' Willian, who would have been the ideal replacement for VDV, and was available in the summer. Instead Danny boy went into the bargain basement bins, yet again and personally bought 'two for the price of one' mediocre players, Sigurðsson and Dempsey. Neither player is anywhere near the class of VDV! And neither player was was signed by AVB! Willian was the man AVB wanted, but as usual, as with Harry, Levy did not back his coach! Daniel Levy 13 seasons in, still believes he knows more about football than his coaches! This problem will continue and continue until the spoilt little brat is driven out of our club. LEVY OUT!
pelebro
23/12/2012 12:04:00
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Yes, he resorted to trying himself......after supplying decent crosses in the first half and on at least 2 occaisons, made their goalkeeper work. One day, he may help to supply spurs with hefty financial profit that may pay for the foundations of the new stadium. So if i was you.....as a so called spurs fan........i would be praising him and not talking about his so called ego. I expect him to be at spurs for at least one more season after this season.
82spursdebut
23/12/2012 12:06:00
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The question has to be asked, we have 4 goalkeepers the latest Hugo is IMO in the top six around the world, We have cover right across the back four, We have cover for holding midfield players, We have no like for like regarding Dembele, if his out who pulls the strings? Same goes for Bale, we can make do, but is making do the answer, same regarding Lennon, then you come to attacking midfield players Dempsey the only one, Siggy what is his best role? Strikers Defoe and Ade, if one or both have an off day, which happens, who can we bring on to get us a goal? We have not one player in the current squad. I asked this question before, who scores the goals. Harry Kane out on loan is not going to be a prolific goal scorer, Obika is he worth a place on the bench and trying out, Souley is making his way from next Gen to under 21 reserves, came on the other night, we just lack and have done for so long another striker, the number 9 is still in a plastic bag, who is it waiting for?
spu 4 life
23/12/2012 12:31:00
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"You have to play a flat midfield 4" Wrong, rubbish, heck we even invented the Diamond some would say and you we are tactically inept? The problem is we don't have enough Goal Scorers, has been all season, simple, we sold VdV and on Defoe scores now with Bale popping up every now and again.
stu_u2k
23/12/2012 12:36:00
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82spur.... Bale, by common consent of many, has turned into more and more of a selfish me-me player with each passing week. the guy when he broke into Arry's team was a grafter who played for the team in tracking back, supplying the strikers and generally helping the team by unselfish off the ball running.... this has now largely vanished, and he is playing basically for his next contract next summer, and scoring the most goals for himself even if that means less for the team in total.... Ade too, has now got his Spurs contract so can afford to not be Defoe's (and others') bitch by doing all the donkey-work for the OTHER'S to score from
Viyyash-Ramosh
23/12/2012 12:55:00
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stu_u2k, How would you play a diamond with Bale, Lennon, Defoe and Ade??? You can't play with two wingers, and two strikers unless you have a flat 4. Tactics have to take into account the characteristics of the players available to you. Also, dropping Bale might prove controversial?!
Tactically Challenge
23/12/2012 12:58:00
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everyones an expert. Trouble is our players ar not good enough for what the fans expect them to do. Either change the players or change the expectations. Neither will happen so the void of supporting spurs goes on
jimmy-yid
23/12/2012 13:05:00
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Bale has the worst shot to goal ratio in the prem I think....wouldn't it be nice to see him, defoe and Ade working as a team? you'll notice how often Lennon and Defoe pass to each other...indeed Lennon's first thought is where is Defoe?? Defoe and Lennon work best when there is space behind and so does Bale...in fact we're a much better counter attacking team than trying to break down a team...this won't change without players able to pick the lock...
shedboy2
23/12/2012 13:21:00
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To me the lack of goals is not down to formations. These 2 guys scored 11 goals in 8 games together last season. When Ade played with Saha as well there were goals. I believe its down to confidence level & how secre Ade feels. He is a complex person.

From what I see he values security more whether its football or real life. Look at his entire carerr, when ever his position is threatned he goes into this zone where everything falls apart. But when he is lead striker, he can rip apart any defense. Last season, he was the no1 , scored 12 goals & 17 assists. I am saying he should be reinstated as No1 - wth him the handling should be different.
sydqcb5
23/12/2012 13:21:00
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I think the main problem is this summer we sold our best two players and have not replaced either with good enough quality. Modric could thread a killer pass and VDV would pop up with the goals needed to win tight games. When teams park the bus we do not have any answers to unlock the defence. Lennon only hurts teams when they play a high line and his pace can get behind that. His scoring ratio is terrible too. Bale does go past more players than Lennon and can deliver a better ball and offers a goal threat. Dembele is greater at taking players on but lacks the ability to play a killer through ball. Been ages since Defoe scored a goal when playing with a strike partner. I still do not see why we sold VDV. May have brought a new toy for the owners. The money we bid for Moutinho will disappear and never be seen again like the money we had to bid £30 million for a new striker did a few years ago. The owners have let this club down too often now for my liken. Still no sign or talk about the new stadium for a while now. I think we need a new forward, another right winger and a ball playing midfielder. With our chairman and scouting network we will probably bring in another right back, holding midfielder and goalkeeper. I also think AVB trys talking the wrong players up. Defoe and Lennon just let it go to their heads while Ade does seem like a player you have to show a lot of love to. Not a big Harry fan but that is one thing he did well with his players to get the best out of them.
nothappyharry
23/12/2012 13:49:00
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Peace out - Himwhatwhats
thenuge
23/12/2012 14:55:00
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this site is a laughing stock??? yes, I'm sure there are thousands out there rolling on the floor...but wait, if you have a clever idea or feel you can better reflect the feeleings of 'true' fans then you can just log on and write...it's easy.
shedboy2
23/12/2012 15:05:00
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so now commenting on a match is knee-jerk?...some people don't have the sense they were born with....
shedboy2
23/12/2012 15:08:00
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When Manchester United start a game with 3 strikers it just shows what a $hit article it is .
Nothing to do with the formation ,our attacking players are not good enough .
,br>What formation did we play against Norwich & West brom when they got booed off ? Chelsea when we got taken to the cleaners ? Arsenal scored 5 for fun when we played ?
Everything was good just certain players did not turn up or in Adebayors case ,don`t give a $hit .

When you have Walcott showing Lennon how it`s done you have a problem ,Siggy done much better with the time he had .Stokes gameplan was easy ,stop Bale & Vertonghen & Spurs have no ideas .
Lennon needs replacing asap
big cockeral
23/12/2012 15:15:00
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I think the article is a load of old codswallop. Whatever the supposed set-up, the actual formation the players adopt is usually influenced by the opposition response and therefore fluctuates as the game progresses. It's not complicated, when they have the ball, press the man in possession and close down the rest. When you have it, lose your marker to create two on one scenarios. We did all that OK yesterday until we got in the final third but hadn't the guile to make the killer pass.
Love totty
23/12/2012 15:20:00
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Spot on Big C, it doesn't matter how many srikers you play or don't play, if they are not good enough to break down the Stoke Citys o this world at home.
Frank
23/12/2012 15:22:00
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SSN are now saying that AVB says that "there is no need to spend in January, he is happy with the squad". Perhaps we are now seeing why Levy was so keen to give him the job, they are both *****ing in the same pot, both as tight as a duck's arses.
Frank
23/12/2012 15:26:00
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On his day, Adebayor is twice the player JD will ever be (I like JD as a squad player), and should be the main striker. Dempsey and Siggy can contest the support role and as long as Bale and Lennon do their stuff, the goals will flow I'm sure. Dembele, Sandro and Scotty between them will dominate all but the best opposition and our defence options are fine. I was frustrated that AVB took off Lennon and not Defoe yesterday - another mistake on his part?
Love totty
23/12/2012 15:35:00
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Frank If we don`t improve on our offensive options then games like yesterday will come again .Defensively & centre midfield IMO we`re in good shape ,& IMO best goalkeeper in the league .
I just hope AVB is a good poker player & holding his cards close to his chest giving nothing away .
When you`re weak act strong ,when you`re strong act weak .
Even Defoe who is having a fine season is still so hit & miss ,the way he is & has always been .
,br>When you look at that bench for ideas with 15 minutes to go you have nothing ,Lennon & Adebayor should have come off ,even Defoe ,but come off for who ?
big cockeral
23/12/2012 15:36:00
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I would love a statement from our chairman to let us know what is happening to the funds being brought into the club. The lack of investment in recent seasons and if it is to save for a stadium then a statement is needed. But nothing. I think that since AVB has come in, the owners have hung him out to dry. Selling his best players bringing in none of the players he wanted, bringing in players of a lesser standard to those sold, more money brought in by player sales than investment in new players, the owners did not even have a proper press conference for him when he got the job. We are level on points with a poor Arsenal side, even a West Brom side, we are only five points in front of a rubbish liverpool side. I do think that the owners have taken the club as far as they can and now time to sell and let someone else have a go. They may deliver the stadium and invest their own money into the club. Im all for running a club within its means but I feel the owners now are only interested in turning in a profit year by year.
nothappyharry
23/12/2012 15:50:00
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Absolutely nothappyharry, I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with every word you say, and the sentiments with regards to our owners.
Frank
23/12/2012 15:58:00
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Dont agree with the article and think a 4-2-3-1 would have lost us the game. From what i was watching our build up was slow and predictable, for a team as organised as Stoke we were playing right into there hands, I was going to post a response to the Stoke vs Spurs article about how difficult tactically this game would be on one hand you have to use our pace against them, then on the other hand you give away possession constantly they will eventually hoof the ball into the right area. I'm confused as to why you think any other formation would have made a difference? Playing 1 up top ie Defoe, what, he's going to hold the ball up for the on running midfielders? I think AVB got it right, we dominated possession limited the opposition threat, its down to our forwards to put the ball in the net, i cant blame AVB tactics when so much relies on the ability of the front 2. Defoe was never going to change the game against the stoke back 4, if i was a defender I would love playing against Defoe. I dont think there was much we could have done to influence the result.
coys1717
23/12/2012 15:58:00
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Tottenham have failed to keep a clean sheet in their eight previous league meetings with Stoke

So we know what yesterdays issue was
big cockeral
23/12/2012 16:13:00
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The formation debate will rage on long after we have passed on. I feel we are just a little to rigid at the moment and still finding our own style. Dembele goes missing for large parts of the games at times and we lack the creativity that VDV provided. Defoe and Ade, I have no problem with, Lennon is the issue for me. He is forever ball watching and too slow to react. Occasional diagonal run across the middle, but not enough to warrant a continual start. I like the idea of a 4-3-3, with Ade, Defoe, Bale playing the front three. Sando, Dembele and Siggy behind. At the end of the day, I have to agree with Jimmy-yid......"Trouble is our players are not good enough for what the fans expect them to do".
thenuge
23/12/2012 16:36:00
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I think it's a great article, although I disagree that 4-4-2 is completely without use. I also disagree with anyone who thinks that some formation is better than another, it depends on way more factors than we humble pundits could possibly be aware of. Not to mention that AVB is hardly a 4-4-2 type of coach, but he's somehow decided that given his players available, and his opponent, that was the best solution available to him at the time. January is going to tell a big story as to where we're going as a club.
tengboon
23/12/2012 17:00:00
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The reason we are playing with 2 strikers is because we do not have the required attacking midfielder to play in behind a striker. We used to have VdV but we don't anymore. Without an attacking midfielder we will always struggle. It is for that reason that we should sign Eriksen and NOT Moutinho. Moutinho is a deep playing midfielder whereas Eriksen is more of an attacking midfielder.
SpuriousLife
23/12/2012 17:01:00
0
I think AVB very much sees a 4-3-3 future in Spurs with Bale and Adebayor, I can see him going for a right-sided striker, Loic Remy, Willian, a Juan Mata type. Lennon hasn't been as poor as folks on here say, but don't know if he can hold the right side of a 4-3-3
tengboon
23/12/2012 17:06:00
0
Watching Chelsea tear apart Villa, I can't see how we couldn't do the same in a week
tengboon
23/12/2012 17:09:00
0
You fail to point out this happens every game even when we have one striker because Defoe can't anticipate where the ball is going when Bale crosses, even though we all do. If he wasn't a reactive striker but one that anticipates like international class strikers do, then you might have an argument. Unfortunately that's not the case.
Med1
23/12/2012 17:18:00
0
It`s quite ironic how Defoe has been so poor in being offside that yesterday he was not forward enough .
Bale put in some bad ass crosses & Vertonghen put in a peach that was begging to be tapped in .Gary Lineker would have got a hat trick yesterday .

Defoe ,Lennon & Adebayor are not giving the opposing defence enough to think about ,they make Mary Poppins look like Hannibal Lecter at times .
big cockeral
23/12/2012 17:26:00
0
Chelsea have softened Villa up for us, but will we take advantage. I have my doubts. The bottom line is that our current squad is not good enough for the top four especially in attacking areas. Unless ENIC sanction money for at least one striker, one goal scoring and one creative midfielder then we will not qualify for Champions League. Unfortunately, I believe ENIC are not interested in progressing the club, they are happy for us to stay in the top half of the premier league and eventually sell. I feel sorry for AVB vibe cause I feel he is a fine manager who doesn't' have the players he wants and as long as Levy leaves his transfer business to the last minute(Dempsey) or settles for bargains (Ade) then AVB will never be able to fufill his potential at Spurs
jonathan01
23/12/2012 17:44:00
0
Don't get carried away with the thrashing chelsea have just given Villa before our boxing day meeting, this has done us more harm, than good, players have pride, Lambert will be making changes that's certain and he will be looking for a reaction from them, so will the home crowd, great thank you chelsea, it's just made our boxing day fixture twice as hard.
spu 4 life
23/12/2012 18:23:00
0
Most people on here are stupid enough to have posted on comments and forums for 442, because most people on here are just idiots. 442 could still work, but NOT with Gallas or Adebayor being involved. Adebayor is a terrible player, he gives away possession so much and is so lazy.
SonicBorg
23/12/2012 18:51:00
0
Sonic - How can you call Ade a terrible player? The bloke, for me, had decent ball retention yesterday and if Defoe was more intelligent allowing himself space they would work really well. Some supposed 'fans', and i will call you that as i bet half of you have never been to the lane let alone an away match, seem to think that because a player doesn't bang in a hat-rick or supply pin point crosses 100% of the time they are useless???? FFS - go and 'like' another club and ***** on their parade in the future!! Rant over!!!
woodyn17
23/12/2012 20:10:00
0
It’s a shame that some peeps have slagged this article off (like they do with several others on Vital). Seems that folks fail to realise the REAL purpose of a forum like Vital, which (imo) is to bring together fans to express their views and debate constructively the pro’s and con’s of the article’s headline story. I welcome ALL articles on my club as they provoke me to have a say. Makes for a very healthy forum.

Now re the subject of debate, I disagree with a rigid formation. It’s horses for courses and AVB has to be trusted for choosing the correct TACTICAL formation for EACH game. If AVB chooses a team to appease fans, then I agree with Big C in that he is in the wrong job and should be shown the door. I don’t for a minute think AVB chose Friedel over Lloris and then changed his mind through fan pressure.

IMO, the issue with Spurs NOT being able to break down stubborn defences has nothing to do with the formation, but again to do with the players’ ability, contribution, execution of what is asked of them. I also agree with some that there is element of selfishness that is appearing in our team and some players are reluctant to co-operate with the selfish individuals. The team seems to lack the fluidity in attacks that we had last season. Re-playing the match y’day, I noted how slow we moved up the pitch. Some players only seemed to pass when they were cornered. Rather than the counter atatcks we witnessed last season, I am noticing a slow build up but FAST chase back!. We continue to run out of ideas in the last ¼ and the likes of Bale and Defoe take on responsibility to just smash from distance, rather than involve the rest of the team. Even Walker was having a go from 25/30 yards. Gilfi offered us something in the last 15 mins and nearly snatched the winner. I also think AVB was right in keeping Ade on for the full match as we needed that additional aerial presence, with Crouch coming on too. Defoe should’ve been taken off IMO for Townsend. I think the whole team worked hard y’day, but with no penetration. The statistics re shots on goal were very misleading. I would certainly like to see a couple of additions (Striker + midfield) in January to keep some of the current squad on their toes. IMO, Defoe+ Ade need to get off their high horses and Bale needs a reminder about team play.
Critical_Spur
23/12/2012 20:16:00
0
Good summary Critical_Spur. Personally i'd have taken Lennon off for Townsend and Defoe for Siggy. Don't rate either Townsend or Siggy, but both have performed ok as impact subs recently. Probably wouldnt have made a difference tbh, we just don't have the creativity to break down a Stoke defence that has conceded the least amount of goals in the league.
Guyver
23/12/2012 20:31:00
0
I didnt rate Pav much either, but he stole us a few wins and is far superior to the non-existent striker we had on the bench yesterday.
Guyver
23/12/2012 20:33:00
0
Guyver, Making the subs that you and I have mentioned would've got Pulis scratching his head (well, cap) as they were not going to be like-4-like changes, i.e., a tactical change, As for stoke, their substitutions were pretty much like-4-like as Stoke never have a plan B!. I also believe that Defoe needs to go back to being an impact sub. Since Ade's return, his goal tally has stagnated (wrong time for Spurs I might add). Really need someone to find the net over the festive period. Stiil, COYS!
Critical_Spur
23/12/2012 20:53:00
0
I have noticed Defoe hasn't been as sharp as he was before Ade joined him now whether that is typical Defoe form dropping or the inclusion of Ade I don't know. I think neither have played that well since their partnership and after a slow start from Defoe in the lone striker role I thought he was beginning to adapt his game and was doing well in most of them but since Ade arrival he he and Ade are clueless. I am happy with 4 3 3 but I don't think Defoe is suitable for that role in ALL games and I think each should be picked on merit and who is most suited for each game and that means dropping one in my opinion and maybe odd games they can play together but I agree with article too much pressure on AVB I actually think he will come good he is getting to know the PL and the players. I still think we need another striker that will be a regular goal scorer.
thfan
23/12/2012 21:37:00
0
Slightly off topic, there were SEVEN different goal scorers for Chelsea today!
Critical_Spur
23/12/2012 22:01:00
0
being linked with this fella... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah9AHU1EQno looks decent...
Yidmarks
23/12/2012 22:03:00
0
shame if Sturridge signs for Liverpool... he would have been a good buy for 12m... could have played as Lennon cover/2nd striker...
Yidmarks
23/12/2012 22:05:00
0
Still believe we could be contenders with 60m spent on transfers..

We could off-load the likes of Gallas, Bentley, Jenas, Gomez/Carlo... for approx 10m....

Levy needs to put his hand in his pocket and give AVB the tools to do his job...

ALEXIS SANCHEZ ....(STRIKER/AMF/ATTACKING WINGER)
WESLEY SNEIJDER ... (ATTACKING MIDFIELDER)
WILLIAN ..................(ATTACKING MIDFIELDER/WINGER)
JOAO MOUTINHO ......(MIDFIELDER)
MARIO GOTZE ..........(ATTACKING MIDFIELDER/WINGER)
IVAN PERISIC ...........(ATTACKING MIDFIELDER/WINGER)
ROBERT LEWANDOWSKI ...(STRIKER)
KAKA ............................(ATTACKING MIDFIELDER)
SAMI KHEDIRA .............(MIDFIELDER)
JAVIER HERNANDEZ .........(STRIKER)
EDIN DZEKO ....................(STRIKER)
CHRISTIAN ERIKSEN ..............(ATTACKING MIDFIELDER)
ISCO ....................................(ATTACKING MIDFIELDER)
STEVEN DEFOUR ....................(MIDFIELDER)
CHRISTIAN BENTEKE .............(STRIKER)
MAROUANE FELLAINI ................(MIDFIELDER)
FERNANDO LLORENTE ................(STRIKER)
RADAMEL FALCAO ......................(THE MAN)


ANY OF THESE PLAYERS WOULD MAKE OUR 1ST TEAM STRONGER... THATS THE POINT OF A TRANSFER.. BUY TO IMPROVE...

ID TAKE 2 OF ANY OF THE ABOVE TO IMPROVE OUR 1ST TEAM... THEY ARE ALL QUALITY ADDITIONS..

AVB"S XMAS SHOPPING LIST... LEVY GET IT DONE...
Yidmarks
23/12/2012 23:16:00
0
nice fantasy football there yidmarks, unfortunately falcao is way out of our league, benteke can't move twice, city will never sell us dzeko, while he will hardly take a 50% pay cut, llorente and lewandowski will wait to see who comes calling, would love either, but it is out of our hands
Guernman
23/12/2012 23:35:00
0
Well written article but wrong. If you disregard a formation completely then you are reducing your options and that is foolish. There is a time and a place for all formations, not just the 'flavour of the month' ones. Any manager worth his wages will select the formation he feels will give his team the best chance of winning the game. I don't think AVB could care less what formation the fans want, if he did then surely he wouldn't have changed the entire system that has seen us challenging for top 4 in recent years. Our problem is more to do with our lack of a playmaker able to unlock tight defences with an incisive pass, a striker of true world class and a tempo of play so slow that the opposition can get goal side in plenty of time. Yes Bale is quick but more often than not his breaks end in efforts from him because the support is still 10 yards behind him. A world class striker and a world class playmaker in January and we'll finish top 4 whatever formation AVB uses. No business in January and we'll be at least 10 points off 4th.
thfc1882whl
24/12/2012 00:12:00
0
It was the wrong formation in that game but I wouldn't write it off completely as an idea. For the record, I don't think AVB is succumbing to pressure from fans I think he was trying to fit his tactics round the players we have, though maybe you're right he needs to do it his own way.
wiltshirespur
24/12/2012 00:20:00
0
When spurs run out of options and can't be bothered they have pot luck shots from outside the area, it's why bale will never end up at Madrid because he shoots as much as he passes, Lennon always tries to pass at least even when he's clear through on goal
Spursnoob
24/12/2012 01:01:00
0
Regarding the formation, 4-4-2 means stretching the opponent down the wings. We ave 2 excellent wingers who could do this. But the key to this formation is how fast the switch of play can happen fro left to right or vice versa.

With a player like Dembele, this will not happen. Dembele is not a passer of the ball. Dont mistake me, he is a very good player. But he is not the type of CM who can take advantage of 4-4-2. Modric, Carrick, Scholes are best examples of CM who makes the 4-4-2 tick.
Also, we play high up the pitch nowadays. 4-4-2 again doesnt work that much in thiscase because we sqeeze up the space and our wingers dont have space to run. Playing higher up has its advantages with us restricting Swansea to no chances.

Bootom line to me is, if we need to play 4-4-2 we need better CM, else its better to 4-2-3-1. I would give Siggurdsson a chance instead of one of the 2 strikers. While he doesnt score much nowadays, he always makes things happen.
sydqcb5
24/12/2012 01:15:00
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