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Is it the end for Jake?

I have to say that I have heard two conflicting stories about the long term plans for Jake Livermore, but I have no idea which is true.

Talk has been growing stronger that Livermore is a serious target for both Fulham and QPR and to me both have logic. Fulham are short in midfield and are currently lacking that mix of bite and quality, though I do wonder if Jake's strengths are slightly too similar to those of Steve Sidwell, but of course that may well be what Martin Jol is looking for. At QPR Harry is clearly a fan of the player after picking him so often last season, and will know both of his quality and temperament and perhaps he feels he is just the right sort of player to add bite and energy to his over paid and pampered team of mercenaries.

The big question is whether AVB would be looking to loan Livermore to give him games and also keep him motivated, or whether he doesn't really consider him to be a player with a Tottenham future. Jake has hardly had a look in since Dembele has arrived and the majority of his eleven appearances this season have been late arrivals from the bench, despite playing every minute of the first three games, though one defeat and a draw in those games would have perhaps signalled the end of his partnership with Sandro anyway, because as a pairings they clearly lacked the creative spark needed, but was that Jakes fault or merely a case of them being too similar in style?

The impression I was getting the other week was that Jake was very much in AVB's plans and along with a few other younger players such as Carroll and Kane, they were high hopes for all of them, though the feeling was that loans were the best solution to give them experience. However Jake often being excluded from the Europa team and Tom Huddlestone being preferred to him in the absence of Dembele, did make me wonder if AVB simply didn't feel that Jake had what it takes. Equally was that just a case it using Europe to develop Carroll and add some minutes to Huddlestone's match fitness, after all Livermore and Sandro could again have been a problem domestically. recent games have seen Jake preferred to Hudd, but only as a last few minute closer of games, which is hardly a ringing endorsement.

Though pure speculation on my part, but it did make me wonder if Jake was being shipped as a means of generating cash for new faces, perhaps with a better all-round game than our home-grown youngster? In the last few days, Spurs have been linked with the soon to be out of contract Moussa Sissoko and Yann M'Vila, both seemingly available and both offering the same qualities as Jake, but perhaps both being slightly better and with a better all round game. Sissoko is able to sign a pre contract deal now whilst M'Vila has fallen out with Rennes and France and is potentially available for a bargain that may well appeal to both AVB and Levy.

Add the potential signings of Moutinho, Holtby and God knows who else, you wonder if Jake is a player that could be sacrificed to make squad space and also generate funds for incommers? Personally I like Jake and would love to see him make it at White Hart Lane, but if the club can sign players that they feel are better fits and need to balance the books, who am I to argue, though it is always that much sadder for me to see another Academy prospect miss out. Whether Spurs would perhaps look to initially loan Jake and then review the situation in the summer, that may well depend on their plans, but equally, loaning him, may not only allow someone like QPR their own time to re-evaluate when their own position is clear, but a strong showing from the player may well increase his value from being an emerging squad player to one of genuine Premiership quality...

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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Friday January 4 2013

Time: 1:20PM

Your Comments

Personnally, i'd like to see him stay and fight with huddlestone.....let the loser be sold !!!..joking. Prefer he stay..and huddlestone go out on loan, till end of season. With a view to a sale..5 mill' minimum. But...if he wants out.....than same as huddlestone....but value at 6 mill' minimum.....that's my
Not if he is going on loan no.
i like livermore alot, i believe he is a very good anchor man, has the build and strength to dominate that area of the park but i do also believe he just isn't good enough to break the sandro and dembele partnership, the only way would be to show more attcking prowess which he clearly lacks, would be sad to see him go as i think he is a good squad player but in order for him to develope he must move away, not permanentely though, i would be open to the loan system coming into play on this one as i think he has more to offer than what we have seen. COYS
I think he should stay, or a loan only. Hes come along way over the last few seasons. The reason AVB is keep for him to go out is the same reason Harry let Walker go. To improve him! He could come back 3 times the player he is already. We have Scotty back now and Sandro the beast so it makes perfect sense at the current time. I have a lot of time for Jake, hes Spurs through and thorough and I hope he can prove any doubters wrong and be a massive hit with us. At 23, still loads to learn. COYS.
@spursone2 agreed on that, defo has alot to offer, wouldnt want to sell him at all
in an ideal world, I would loan him and retain him as a long term successor to Parker. even if that takes another full season. Question is, would he be unhappy with the uncertainty and also do we need to sell before we buy? we talk about monies generated from sales, but lets not forget the small issue of a new stadium and we cant just spend spend spend without some rebalancing of the books
Oxford, reading your article it struck me that both these teams could be in for both Livermore and Hudd. Harry takes Livermore on loan untilt he end of the season for the reasons you stated (win win imo) and Big Martin Jol signs Hudd for again similar reasons to those of Harry. which would allow for the signign of Sissoko (my preferance).
Slurms McKenzie
agree Slurms. I can see both going at some stage, either now or the summer, whether loan or perm.
You may be right letting Hudd and Livermore go out on loan, but AVB will not let squad players go without a plan A bringing in a new face? Plus we have ''I can play if I'm not injured Jenas back'' his been out longer than Nelson Mandela
spu 4 life
heard quite abit about sissoko but unsure how he'd fit in instead of hudd and jake? squad player? can someone fill me in on this guy please? would he be pushing sanmdro and dembele for a start? also where would holtby fit in if he and sissoko signed? i have a brief idea how id set up but dont have hardly any knowledge on sissoko
AVB did mention if a few want more minutes he will let them leave if it suits us, and a loan to either Fulham or QPR would be perfect at this time for Jake. also would be great if the likes of Tom Carroll, Iago Falque and Andros Townsend could get premier league loans to show what they can do at this level.
Just as an aside to this but is there also a consideration to other youngsters coming through the ranks? I do question more and more whether Dean Parrett will make the grade at Spurs, if for no other reason than he seems to be constantly overlooked. but what about Massimo Luongo, who at 20, is perhaps a better technical footballer than Jake, has good vision and a good all-round game. He started very brightly on loan at Ipswich at the start of the season, but as they panicked loaned in experience to fight relegation and terrible form the kids suffered as often happens and therefore he was mutually recalled.
Talk of Livermore, Rose and Huddlestone leaving the club could leave us light of 'English' numbers in the squad. I'm sure that is one of the reasons Fryers has been snapped up. I actually don't feel that any of Rose, Livermore or Hudd will feature long-term for AVB but as and when they go (along with the likes of Jenas, Bentley and potentially Dawson) some English blood will have to added to the squad to keep us in line with league requirements.
from what ive seen parrett looks good but needs to get more prem experience, same for luongo, he was getting some very good reports, only way to know is throw them in the deep end, loan to other prem clubs or maybe top foreign leagues instead, townsend is a definite yes for me, he looks classy when called upon but is still very raw and sometimes has a lack of calmness, he seems to run at everyone and he will get found out unless he adapts his game, if he had bales power and pace id say have a go at everyone you get a chance to but until he gains experience he should pass a little more, very exciting though
good call oxfordspur.......i recently saw the under 21's...and loungo was very solid. I feel for Parret (who also played)...but i think he has been overtaken and perhaps needs to settle for a lower league bad thing. I also very much liked.....mason.
Thing is, Jake has already had 6 different loan spells with mixed success some based on injuries. I'm just not sure he'll want to go back into that routine again. My guess is he'd love a fresh start at a club where he gets to play, even if that means dropping down to lower Prem side.

M'Vila would be a great buy though. Apart from his ball winning, he can run a game from deep with his passing ability. Very comfortable taking the ball from the centre halves and dictating the play.
If you accept that in a 25 man squad you look for two players for each position then we have one too many defensive midfielders. The problem is that given Parker's age and recent injury record there has to be a question mark over his long term future. It may well be that Livermore is sent out on loan to get games while the club wait to see how Parker is after the injury. I'm still baffled how Hudd seems to rated above Livermore. At least I know what Jake will give the team, these days Tom doesn't really seem to give much of anything.
Townsend also played and was supplied numerous right and left footed swinging corners.
IN swinging corners.
Don't sell him. He's our version of Darren Fletcher, he is Spurs through and through, and while maybe not good enough for a regular start, definitely good enough to be a squad player.
Great news there Coopsie the kind of business Spurs should have been doing for the last number of years. To get Sissoko in free would give us great strenght and dept to our midfield. I really feel Big Tom's days at the club are numbered and I can't really see Parker with us after the summer so come September we could be looking at Sandro, Demebele, Sissoko, Carroll, Livermore, Siggi and Holtby as our central midfield. Would we be happy with this?
Slurms McKenzie
Good riddance!
Livermore should go, at 22/23 whatever he is he'snever going tto be good enoug on the ball for our passing style . He's probably got decent value of 5-6m so move him on, same as Thudd who will never be a top 6 player. Keep young Carroll, and buy a top CM and our midfield has everything- pace, strengt , experience, youth.
You never know what will happen in football. There will be suiors for players like Bale, Vertonghen, Sandro, Dembele, perhaps even Lennon. You can't however build a team planning for all possible situations. Build your best 25 with what you have and supplement with a great development program that leaves lots of options, even if somewhat green.

My feeling is, I would sell Hudd. He deserves to play but would be behind Sandro, Dembele and Parker, though, truth be told, he's more of the Dembele sub, but his lack of pace and push will always require the players on the pitch to adjust. Mid-game, that takes us out of our rhythym. If he's in as a starter, I think it's fine. Fact is though, he needs to play and he's not going to get enough match time for that to happen. I think Fulham, Stoke or a couple of other clubs would suit his skill set for years to come and playing every day, he could be quite good. Sell him. I will enjoy his success, so long as it is not at our expense.

Jake needs to be loaned out. He needs to play every day, and I do believe he is more suited to the Parker/Sandro role than the Dembele role. I like his size, strength and feel he has been unfairly maligned by Spurs fans. That said, I would rather play Carroll than Jake. A loan is best and at QPR, it's pretty certain he'd play a major role. That would allow us the option of calling him back or selling him in the summer. If he keeps QPR up, there will be a huge extra value on a transfer. If not, and he shines, much like Rose is doing in a very poor team, the transfer value goes up. So, for me, a loan would be best for Jake.

Here's the rub - RULES. You can only have two players on loan in the PL at a time, unless I am mistaken. Kane is at Norwich and Rose is at Sunderland. Rose has greatly increased his tranferability. No doubt we could sell him, but what is BAE doing? Extending, or will we have to sell him? If he's staying, to me, it's a no-brainer. Sell Rose. We just signed Fryers who is a much better talent. Naughton, Vertonghen can all play out there, if need be. And we could then loan out Jake. Kane needs to play and calling him back would be a big mistake, unless there was a Championship team where he could play every game.

To me, it all depends on BAE. Jake, Tom, Danny and Harry all need to play often and at a high level. How to make it happen is why Levy gets paid big bucks. COYS
See M'villa putting himself in the market again, his name was thrown around a lot in the summer. Still feel we missed out on Debuchy.
Definitely should stay! Hes had some top quality games - especially for England he didnt lose the ball once. Everyone was talking about what a bright future he has. As he hasnt really broken through as of yet we wont be able to demand a high fee for him anyway. Keep him. I'd bet any one of you here we'll regret it in the years to come if we let him go.
'It will be excellent if we can match last year's run to the semi-finals but we want to reach the final and win the competition." Lets win a trophy this year. Success breeds success.
Peterballb that is the question I've been asking myself for the last couple of days - is there a limit on the number of players you can have loaned out in the Prem. I know there is a limit on the number you can Loan in.
Slurms McKenzie
You're a bit spikey today Coops, take a happy pill as you're letting your ankles get you down again mate.

The handbook puts no limit on the number of players a club can loan out. It limits loaning in to 2 at any one time and 4 over a season. Goalkeepers are exceptions.
Love totty
I think that we should keep Livermore. He's a decent squad player and can come on to help close out games. That's probably not enough for him, so I suspect that he'll be moved on. If we have a situation where Parker and Sandro or Dembele are injured, Jake is our cover. Forget about Huddlestone, he should definately be sold, but will anyone take him with his ankle problem? Huddlestone and Jenas are in the same boat for me. Both of them have had years to impress, and neither has. Jake still has time, and looks a useful defensive midfielder. He should watch videos of Sandro and Parker.
Love totty, I am pretty sure I have read differently. There are different rules that apply to loans within the same league. For example, you cannot recall a loan from within the division after the January Transfer Window closes. So Feb 1, we would not be able to recall Rose or Kane but could recall anyone in the Championship. I also recall that only 2 players can be loaned out by any PL team to other PL teams. COYS
oxfordspur - Good shout re emerging youngsters. Maybe one of our many talented young forwards have impressed AVB??
Love totty, pretty sure V.7.6 of the handbook says that we may only register two temporary transfers. A Team may take in four as per V.7.5. COYS
No worries Coops, its bound to get to you. Understandable.

Lewis Holtby will be a Spurs player this summer! Deal agreed with Schalke.

Suck that Gooners!!!

Lewis Holtby Welcome!
Just heard we have signed Holtby, so probably means Jake will be sold not loaned, which is good cos I don't rate the guy at all.
Spuds-U-Like, please can you stop referring to that wee London club
we've signed holtby subject to a medical !!!
rahn DMC
Its official Holtby just signed for us.Official Fb page and our club's website!
big cockeral, if we get 3 - 4m for him, it really will be time to do the can can (read your post again if you don't get it)
big cockeral, if we get 3 - 4m for him, it really will be time to do the can can (read your post again if you don't get it)
I only mentioned them In-spurs because some of their fans & some in the media had him nailed on for the Emigrants. Besides, you're just miffed about it cos I beat ya to it mate! :^0

Sorry for the double post. I swear I only pressed the submit button once
Darren Fletcher, John O'shea, Jonny Evans, Park Ji-Sung - all these players are and have been lambasted by fickle Man Utd fans for years as "not good enough" yet all have been intregal members of successful squads over the past decade. You need good honest players who dont brake the bank wage wise - and are homegrown and with versitility. Whether Jake Livermore is good enough remains to be seen, for me though he has improved leaps and bounds. Yet for some of you on here it all so black and white all the time - Hes ace, Hes ace, hes *****. the end. Its so short sighted its untrue.
Spuds-U-Like, you win this time. But I'll get you next time ha ha ha (said in evil voice)
Welcome Lewis Holtby!!! Great signing, the kind of signing that would 100% NOT of happened under Harry Redknapp. And i'm a fan of Harry, but we'd have probably signed Joe Cole instead lol. Wonder how much of a role Freund had in this....Shooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootttttt
No Coops but I nominate you for the C.D.M & Bar seeing as the story's been floating around for at least a week mate.

OMG, HOLTBY is coming in the summer, Please stay injury free young man, we have just signed the next GARETH BALE, this lad is one top top player, bring in his team mate Julian Draxler as well, means we will be watching SHALKE 04 games now. Lewis said to his dad ''shalke sign for le scum or spurs, his dad said spurs if you wonna win things''
spu 4 life
In you wet dreams In-spurs buddy, in your wet dreams. (said with slavering grin in voice)

HOLTBY IN THE CITY, NO A & E then Coops, stands for Arsenal & Everton
spu 4 life
Mate (coops) I am so pleased about this signing, not been this happy since my divorce came through.
spu 4 life
or go on then you can do A levels..
spu 4 life
He will be away in the summer (holtby) captain of the german u21 in euro championships get a look at him over that period.
spu 4 life
Brilliant. 2 quality young signings in 2 days. Buy them BEFORE they cost 30m each and another 100k/week in wages - it can be done. Solid foundations being laid down at the Lane. Good stuff.
So young talented players being nailed down, I expect a striker of about 20-23 years of age to come in aswell. Levy and AVB taking care of the squad before the stadium building work starts!
Slurms McKenzie
And again We're heavily linked to Moutinho.That means pretty much the end for Livermore!
Maybe Coops, maybe. Thought you weren't able to see a positive? You little tinker!

That Hog is pretty good I find Big C not much garbage comes from his scribblings.

Villa fan here i dunno if you lot have already heard or not but Sneijder is about to sign for you WOW here is the link
MOUTINHO & LEANDRO next,, pass the kleenex box
spu 4 life
Ok two youngsters in - good news, planning for tomorrow...Holtby can be paid out the fund that is now marked JJ...BUT we still need players for NOW, Striker and creative mid...proven players please we can't wait 3/4 years to see if potential develops, our current strikers are too old...
Coopsie after two years of you calling for us to sign Doumbia I actually think you'd do yourself a mischief if Levy / AVB actually signed him! I think 25 is just on the cusp of the acceptable age profile for our new signings so I'd wouldn't rule him out (just yet)
Slurms McKenzie
Don't read too much into it CLIVE, its a US report & WTF do they know about anything outside their shores? I could tell them Messi & Ronaldo have signed for Spurs on a free & they'd believe it FFS.

Big C- I thought Huntelaar re-signed with Schalke a week or so ago? was that just to get them a fee??
"MOUTINHO & LEANDRO next,, pass the kleenex box" spu 4 life

Utter filth!!! LMFAO

coops mate we need to constantly evolve....we'll be talking about Parker as deadwood soon...and defoe and Dempsey are knocking on and Ade's not too far behind if you believe his birthday...
Great to see us doing business early rather than at the end of the transfer window. Happy days. COYS
Big Ron
V.7.6. not more than 2 Temporary Transfers shall be registered by a Club at the same time Peterb - I take this to be the club who registers the players ie the receiving club.
Love totty
coops- you're right the evolution is happening but imo it never stops we'll still need a player in the summer even if we buy leandro and moutinho tomorrow....we'll need a pacy RM. It just never ends... BigC- I was on this site with Cockeral a few years back banging on about Huntelaar...he would have been good for're not the same cockeral are you?
Sorry to hear that coopsie 4real, hope it gets better man
Coopsie, I hope Jade and the kids are doing well. I wish you well and hope that all is treatable and that you can control the pain and not the other way round. COYS
Sorry to hear about your physical problems Coops. I hope that everything works out well for you.
This Holtby looks to be an inspired signing. I"m hearing lots of good things about him. Hopefully, he has good pace and passing vision. Sneijder is looking for a club. If he can agree to take a hit on his wages, we should definately sign him. His agent has been trying to flog him off.
Sorry to hear that as well Coopsie. It has been great having you and Peter back on the site. What on earth is the underlying diagnosis which causes so much pain and needs a neurologist? Asking as a retired GP
Big Ron
Schnejder would send a huge signal to every other PL team. Make it him and Doumbia and CL here we come. Only question would be third or fourth. City are out of Europe so they will be a fresh club. Their only worry will be from within. Them and ManU look to be too far out front to be caught. Chelsea has by far the worst schedule of all those in CL contention. It takes it's toll as was shown the other day against QPR when Rafa rested players The marathon continues. Beat Coventry and then QPR and then and then and then. One game at a time. COYS
Hey Ron, hope you are well. COYS
Sorry lads thought that story of you signing Sneijder was a legit one my bad, even i got excited about that one lol think he would fit in with the way you guys play well tbh Bale and Sneidjer and Dembele DROOOOOL +}
With Holtby now on board, to join Dembele, Sandro, Parker, Sigurdson, in our CMF positions it is becoming increasingly obvious that the Likes of Huddlestone an Livermore maybe surplus to requirements. Both have limitations that may preclude them from fitting into AVB's playing style and philosophy. We can after all only register 25 players, how many of them can be CMFers. It might be the time to cash in, the pair should raise 8-10M. Better to stick with Carroll, a free pick, as emergency cover, but surely the aforementioned 5 will be enough, even if we don't sign any more MFers but you never know.
I have never thought jake was good enough for a top four side but I think he is a good guy and a Spurs lad. I would prefer him to go out on loan same with Hudd until AVB has the players in he wants. It is hard for these lads being English and at the club so long but we are no longer a mid table team so we need quality to stay amongst the top four and that is a step up. I think if he goes out on loan then we will see how good he really is same with Hudd who i think time is running out. His style of play doesn't suit our game he is too slow but he is a good player but outdated i feel.
Keep smiling Coops!!
Keep smiling Coops!!
Sorry about double post......
I actually feel that Livermore is already a better midfield player than Sandro who is very 1-dimensional and lacks creativity and is abit clumsy to say the least. Of course Sandro does stick his welly in and therefore will always get fans on side for that reason alone... Livermore played well in most games last season and even exceled against Utd as I recall. he has good athleticism, intelligent passing and has the knack of running beyond the forwards when the situation presents itself and can/has got a few goals for Spurs... a move tho' might be best for HIM in order to get regular Prem football, which I believe he has earned the right to after last season. Fulham would be a great move for him at this stage of career.
Coopsie. I understand the exostosis it's the back and hands I don't understand unless you have rheumatoid or some thing similar. Anyway hope things improve. Its amazing how successful operations are nowadays
Big Ron

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