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Is there a benefit in signing Holtby now?

It has been suggested that Lewis Holtby could be allowed to join Spurs in this window as opposed to waiting until the summer. Is this an advantage to both player and our club?

Of course the easy answer is a yes, but at a suggested £1.6m, plus his wages, whether his current £30,000 or the wages offered under his new deal, it represents money the Daniel Levy may not have calculated in his budget and similarly has AVB a real need for him now, even if Adebayor has a month in South Africa?

Add the basic wage and we are adding at least two and a half million to our costs, perhaps nearer three if he is paid at around the 65 grand we are supposed to be paying, however that also perhaps includes signing on fee's etc. If we consider that we have Dempsey looking impressive and Sigurdsson improving, is there a need to have Holtby today as a first team player and in effect would we be paying up to £3m to get a player used to our game and ideas with the idea that he hits the ground running in August?

Perhaps there is major room for negotiation, as perhaps Schalke no longer feel they can play him as a first choice player as they look and perhaps secure a replacement or feel his mind may not be on the job in hand, something that is always a potential issue for both player and club, once a deal is agreed. If there was a possibility that we could pay half go their opening suggestion and take on his contact, that may well be a good deal for everyone, but I don't feel we should be held to ransom at a time when it may be preferable for Schalke, more than us in the short term...




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday January 7 2013

Time: 12:25PM

Your Comments

Always good to do business first
Big Ron
I always imagine it could be hard for player and the club he is leaving to have to spend another half a season together, based on that is it wise for Schalke to want rid and also make a bit of money on the deal? I assume his team-mates wouldnt give it a thought as long as he wasnt playing up or stopped performing, but the relationship between him and his club is sure to be under some strain
oxfordspur
and the earlier the better as long as he is added to the team in the same manner that AVB has done so far. that is gradually without unsettling the team. Having no prima donnas is really quite good
Big Ron
I do wonder what AVB sees as the ideal roles for Dempsey and Siggy. I thought of them both as CAM but that would seem to be where Holtby fits in too and I doubt that AVB wants 3 players in the same position (unless one of them is a youth player and though Holtby is young he is already established 1st team at Schalke.)
Kes80
Now that we have Holtby, what is everyone's thoughts on still pursuing Eriksen or Moutinho in the summer? I was really hoping we would sign Eriksen, do you think Holtby is as good or will be as good as those two?
laughter7
I don't think that we need him right now. Like you say Ox, Dempsey and Sigurdsson are both improving. Shalke probably just want to make some money out of the deal, rather than lose him for free. However, you have to wonder, is the club still going to play him and how will the fans react to him. We want him to join us sharp and ready for action, which means that he has to be playing regular first team football. In light of this, I think that we should sign him now, rather than worry about spending a couple of million on a transfer fee. It seems that we have too many attacking midfielders at the moment, but none who are as good as Modric. If Holtby comes in now, you have to wonder about the future of sigurdsson.
Fanman
@laughter7 - I assume this means the end of either of those deals. We don't want to stockpile central midfielders and a world class striker is a much bigger priority. Given that we won't be able to buy more than one player in the £20m category we need it to be a striker.
Kes80
The benefits would be huge for an outlay of about £3m. It would give him 6 months to get used to the prem and for AVB to work out whether he's more suited to the deep-lying role or just in behind a striker. It would be a good period of adjustment with the view that he starts proper come the summer. It would also have the advantage of allowing us to send Carroll out on loan for 6 months.
flipper
Let him see year out at Schalke, come to a few Spurs games (he was at West Ham match), then hit the ground running and have a whole Summer preparation with his new team mates. I had heard he was a left sided midfielder, so whilst I really hope not, possibly will get his big chance to shine when we get £50 million for Bale in Summer :(
Windlespur
Get him over here asap. I admit ive nit seen much of the kid but from what i read he is a very talented player. Lets face it, the fee we would have to pay Schalke is peanuts in footballing terms, and if he contributes with a few goals and/or assists it could be the difference between 3rd 4th or 5th. As long as it wouldnt interfere with any other planned transfer activity i cant see the down side. Even if he doesnt feature that much between now and the summer, it means he would be settled into his surroundings and would be raring to go in August

Mouthino is not going to happen, and to be hoest i dont think we want or need him anymore. 22m for a player who we dont really need isnt going to happen. Im already shocked at the early dealings (2 players by the 5th must be a THFC record!) but im still crossing my fingers for a striker. Ade just doesnt look interested at all so we need another full stop.
hudderspur
When Holtby joins us, we'll have 3 players competing for the number 10 role. I can't see Sigurdsson sticking with us to be on the bench. He's not going to start against QPR on Saturday. Will he be happy to be a bit part player?
Fanman
No leave it to the summer.bringing players in jan is hard enough to intrograte never mind such a young guy still learning.leandro is the only young one to come in this window.beleive.
Little spur
Getting a forward has now jumped up a position due to Ade going. I would get in some one for up-top (I hope not a loan, but it may be the best option until summer) and then get in someone like Moutinho for NOW if it’s still possible. Holtby should come in July imo, no need to waste the money as he will need time to train, settle with the team and he can do this pre-season. I’m sure we would have got him straight away at the time if it was possible. Seems strange to go back on that? Whats changed? We still have Sigurdsson and Carroll, both are up and coming players as well as this fella, and they will also need the playing time, plus any business going the other way needs be sorted a.s.a.p. COYS.
SpursOne2
I can see the benefits in signing him in Jan. Especially if we do not sign a moutinho/willian/eriksen type player. We are lacking creativity in the midfield area. He will give us an extra option if we are looking for someone to unlock a resolute defence when they park the bus at the lane. Also, it will give him half a season to settle in adapt to the PL.
TornadoYid
I'd go along with your points ox, the initial view of Schalke may be to make him turn up out of some kind of principle but an unhappy dressing room is not going to help them. i suspect a deal can be done
troffer2
If the reports are true that we could be ready to offload Livermore & Hudd then yes I'd bring him in now. He can play in any of the 5 midfield positions in a 4231 so he'd give us plenty of options. A good signing like him could give us that 2nd half of the season lift that we've lacked from recent windows. We made good money in the summer & will probably do so again this month so no reason why we can't at least complete this relatively cheap deal.
Spurs Allday
Windlespur, I think that we can get 60 million for Bale. If Holtby can play at left-midfield that would be a blessing. That's where Modric started to shine for us. Hopefully Holtby has pace.
Fanman
Bring him in now... the benefits are that he will be intergrated over the next 6 months.. And would also give us more options for pushing on to get CL football next season...

the negative is that if we sign him, i dont see another midfielder coming in unless Levy can do a decent loan deal on SNeijder...

Striker issue more important as Ade looks to be goin to the ANC
Yidmarks
If we are worried about the futures of Dempsey and Siggy now by getting him in early then won't the same be true in the Summer anyway ? Suggest he would only get a handful of starts if he came now but would be immediate cover for Dembele should his hip flair up again. If we only had to pay his wages then take him now, if not leave it till the Summer. We proved we have now a good squad base playing the same way whoever is on the pitch. This was NOT the case with Harry as our second string looked clueless in the EL matches.
COYS R US
Starting to doubt any big deals happening for us. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Adebayor goes we simply recall Kane. If we're not going for Moutinho or Sneijder then we must bring in someone to give us fresh impetus & Holtby(though not on their level) could do that. It's far better than standing still.
Spurs Allday
Get him in now. Half a season to gradually slide into the team without a huge amount of us fans expectations being heaped on a young lad. Go and get a proven goalscorer, and, apart from cover for the wings, and a long term goalkeeper cover, thats the team sorted.
spurboy61
No point in Holtby playing in Bundesliga. He could be made a bit part player which is not ideal for Holtby & us. We have a lot of competitive game coming up with us still in Europa, FA & obviously PL. We have number of games coming up in Feb to April. Someone like him could do well for us.
sydqcb5
I don't see why Levy would chuck an extra million or more at this deal just so he can train with us earlier? Let him play competitively over there and stick to the plan. If he does come early, he should be accompanied with a decent number 9 for the long term (no loan). IMO Moutinho would make the difference for us right now. Having him our our books before summer would be excellent business. Maybe Levy has other ideas, but it would be a shame to miss this chap. Maybe hes already 'one that got away'.. COYBS.
SpursOne2
Only take Holtby now if 1) We can move at least one MFer in THIS window to make room for him, or 2) We can come to an acceptable financial arrangement with Schalke so that either he moves for no fee, and we start paying him straight away, or that they pay up his contract in full, and we pay a nominal fee. What we don't want is to be paying Huddlestone, Livermore, and Holtby, all at the same time. If we can't move either of the aforementioned two, and possibly get Carroll out on loan, until the summer, then leave him where he is until July, as previously agreed.
Frank
Nope...canne see holtby coming to us, this transfer window. Really not necassary either. Let him settle at spurs during the summer and see if he can make a impression. I've only seen a few minutes of video of him. Looks strong left sided midfielder. Shows good Intent and shooting power. Not particularly quick...but apparantly, has a quick footballing brain. I see these extra signings as...money making options for Mr.Levy to invest into spurs.....via player investment. I remember the 80's and Irving scholar....investing spurs money into various business's..to try to make a few bob for spurs. Wasn't a great success. But that's not to say...Young holtby cannot be a decent investment....time will tell. Oh.....I wouldn't sell Bale for less than £70 mill'..in this transfer window, but i suspect spurs would be tempted at £60 mill'. Top striker please.....no excuses. Oh.....Zaha £20 mill'.......your having a Giraffe !!!!....(Palace)
82spursdebut
Don't forget...we now have Holtby on a pre contract..........we got £2mill'.....for nothing when Begovic, went against his.
82spursdebut
I know that Damaio is a big wish for most Spurs fans and agree that it is difficult to seal a deal in January but it may be worth noting that it is Brazil's off season and that doing a deal now for LD makes much more sense than mid-season (our summer transfer window). As I understand it the difficulties lie that LD is owned by at least three different parties and getting them all to agree to the same fee is almost impossible. However, I firmly believe that we will only sign a player from AVB / Levy's wanted list & if they are not available then we wont sign anyone. Hopefully LD is available as he could really make a difference between now and May!
1984Spurs
Talking of potential strikers, what is happening re. Loic Remy. Only a short time ago Marseille were asking silly money, and he was only looking to move to a CL club etc. Now according to the press the two PL (at the moment) clubs seemingly interested enough to actually start bidding etc. are QPR, and Newcastle Utd, two clubs with one thing in common, either or both may well get relegated at the end of the season, and are about as far from the CL as you can get in the PL. Does this reflect how far Remy has fallen from grace, or is he not the player many thought.
Frank
Apologies that the last post was off topic but the 6 monthly LD to Spurs rumours seem to be gathering pace!!
1984Spurs
Would be good business this window if we can flog Hudd and Livermore for a combined 6mil+ & replace them with Holtby & Sissoko on free transfers in the summer or small fees now. We'd be stronger & would have made money. Win, win.
Spurs Allday
I'm surprised at how Moutinho is still being mentioned as it seems to me that Holtby's signing pretty much ended the likelihood of that. For those of you still calling for Mouthinho I have two questions, first where does he fit into our first XI and second do you think he is more or less of a priority than a striker?
Kes80
not needed this season as we have ample backup in wide-midfield with likes of Siggy, Demps, Townsend... we need to get a decent backup striker and should concentrate on that
Viyyash-Ramosh
Frank it could mean that all those reports of us bidding 22mil were in fact complete bo//ocks & we never actually bid for the bloke
Spurs Allday
@Frank - Remy has only scored 2 goals in 12 appearances this season according to Wikipedia, and no league goals in 8 games. Not sure if he has had injuries or anything but it seems like whatever form he had previously has eluded him and that's why interest from top clubs has dried up.
Kes80
Only take him now if the virus in some so called supporters is past. Complaint-itis and Moan-itis previously directed at AVB appointment , Lennon, Walker now Adebayor. Holtby just need a poor start for an outbreak to occur.
camper
Regarding our need for Holtby, if we don't need him now because of the stability of our current MFers, then unless we intend to de-stabilise our current MF, by selling somebody, why will we need him more next season. Of course we need him now, as the season wears on we will need to rotate, and provide cover for, the likes of Dembele (currently no realistic cover) and Sandro (with Parker), and others, and to have alternative attacking MF options for certain games. As I have stated above my reservations on taking Holtby now, are purely financial, to avoid us getting "seen off" by Schalke.
Frank
Only take him now if the virus in some so called supporters is past. Complaint-itis and Moan-itis previously directed at AVB appointment , Lennon, Walker now Adebayor. Holtby just need a poor start for an outbreak to occur.
camper
Half a season is a long time in football........or is it a short time !......puddled !!...lol
82spursdebut
Just realized Jenas is back after his loan with Forest so it's all good, we don't need Holtby, Eriksen or Moutinho now...
Spurs Allday
AVB is doing well to manage the harmony in the camp and give everyone game time. However, adding yet another midfielder would make that harder, so only if the likes of Hudd & Livermore are going. I still sadly believe his chance to shine for us will come next season when Bale has been sold for big money. Hope not (re: Bale), but realistic.
Windlespur
I wouldnt let Bale go for a penny less than 80millions pounds...

Would Barca sell Messi for 100million.... NO

Would Real sell Ronaldo for less than 60-70million... NO...

u want him... u pay over the odds for him... we couldnt replace him for less than 50 million in my opinion anyway...

Remy could be worth the punt... can play both striker and winger..
Yidmarks
Holtby's not really a LW if anything when he plays wide he's used as an inverted RW so he's not here to replace Bale. It's probably the midfield position that he's played least in his career. Willian is more likely to be a Bale replacement.
Spurs Allday
Holtby's not really a LW if anything when he plays wide he's used as an inverted RW so he's not here to replace Bale. It's probably the midfield position that he's played least in his career. Willian is more likely to be a Bale replacement.
Spurs Allday
Sorry for the double post
Spurs Allday
Agree re Holtby Frank - Also mate, Remy is now one year close to his current contract ending (2 years left?). His agent probably wanted the best option for him and his player, which if moving the PL would be CL? He has played in the comp scoring a few I think. He is still the same player though. Both Newcastle and QPR can pay decent wages, add to that Ba's departure and QPR's urgency...this might help understand why they are making the most effort. Not sure if he is our best option now, wages etc, plus guaranteed first team…Obviously he doesn’t play over here so I can only go by what I have seen. The chavs were in for him as well before getting Ba. COYS.
SpursOne2
what's a inverted right wing ?......just for clarification. Don't think we can replace Bale....least hope not, for at least another season. But for £80 mill'.....sold !!!!.......lol..pays for a few bricks..
82spursdebut
Need to move someone out to make space on the roster, no? Huddlestone out first and then there's room for the new lad. But need space opened and money saved to bring in the Holtsby fellow.
Total knobhead
Get him in now, we are competing on three fronts, rotation necessary at this time of the season and not to ignore potential injuries.
AllanDK
Get him in now, we are competing on three fronts, rotation necessary at this time of the season and not to ignore potential injuries.
AllanDK
I don't see why Spurs would go back on the arrangement arrived at. It suited the club only the other day, since which time nothing has changed. I suspect it has got more to do with someone needing 'a story' and a few day's speculation.
Airwave
I think the whole scenario of Holtby joining now instead of in the summer is because the Schalke fans have reacted quite badly to his having signed for us. There have been a number of protests and some personal abuse has been directed at Holtby (calling him ungrateful and a traitor no less!) Now of course this shows how much the Schalke fans wanted him to stay which bodes well for us. However it does make things diffciult for Holtby and also for Schalke. This being the case it would be best all round if he came to us now rather than in the summer. That way he won't be abused or not played for 6 months (which may affect his performances and confidence) and it also defuses the situation for Schalke. The reality is that we hold the cards in terms of negotitation here but we have to be wary o the impact on Holtby himself if we leave him in Germany until the summer.
SpuriousLife
camper - ha mate. Agree! Some on here see that type of abuse to a player...as you say Lennon, Walker and Ade...as a gentle kick up the arse!! Basically abuse the ***** out of them until they shut you up with a few goals. Some of the ***** Lennon got ha, totally out of order....hes playing excellent football at the mo..none of that is anything to do with a few turnips on here who call them selves supporters? I do agree with constructive criticism, and if your at a match you might get caught in a moment but always should get behind the team. Nice post. He needs time to settle and play with the team. COYS.
SpursOne2
Lewis Holtby; reasons to be cheerful part one. Our own fixture list ends on May 19th vs Sunderland at home, Schalke's season ends on May 18th away vs SC Freiburg. Considering that the Under 21's European Championships run from 5th to 18th June 2013 which Germany will be part of. Lewis Holtby has the remaining month of June to move to England, pre-season training and pre-season fixtures in July early August, before the new Premier League season kicks-off, does allow him a longer period to settle into his new surroundings and become familiar with his new team mates. Staying with Schalke does allow plenty of time. The bonus reasons to be cheerful part two; in moving now allows everything to be put in place and hit the ground running after being with the under 21's, the settling in programme has been achieved now rather than later, so if he does move in this window, we gain a very good player earlier then expected, he will be a massive success for us, when Schalke beat that other lot in north london he was the star of the show, i don't for one minute see the premier league being a problem to him, getting settled early has to be a good move, if it happens.
spu 4 life
good point...spurious life.....if that is what is happening. Also shows how stupid the german fans are.
82spursdebut
Holtby plays best in the no.10 role like vdv did but he doesn't come deep for the ball, but potentially could play as Modric did for us as a deep lying playmaker. I believe he could be the perfect link player as Dembele can move the ball in to the area that Holtby occupies and then with his quick thinking he can see the pass through. One thing that suggests he would settle on the pitch quickly is the fact he thinks very quickly.
Jantheman
Spurs All Day - Just realized Jenas is back after his loan with Forest so it's all good, we don't need Holtby, Eriksen or Moutinho now...Now this has to be a wind up, Jenas i can't remember the last time he played in a Spurs shirt, his loan clubs hardly watched him play in the respective colours as well, the guy always managed to get injured. 5 Players we don't need; JENAS; BENTLEY; HUDD; GOMES; LIVERMORE, when we are linked with players like MOUTINHO, ERIKSEN, LEANDRO, WILLIAN, ZAHA, SNEIJDER, jenas must be well down the list of players we need.
spu 4 life
Fanman - Modric certainly didnt begin to shine on the left wing. that was where he was most ineffective. I'd rather we sign Moutinho now and left Holtby till the summer.
mattspurs1982
82spursdebut An inverted winger is like Waddle, a left footer playing on the right or vice versa. AVB has tended at previous clubs to use a lefty on the right (Sturridge/Hulk)
Spurs Allday
I see.....although guessed it..........No excuse for any top player to be two footed now days. Yes, liked waddle on the right ..87. Only seen 3 mins' of holtby..on video....thus hard to say if he equal on both feet......or where he exactly plays. Horses for courses.......he may turn into a good one...lol.......we'll see.
82spursdebut
Portuguese press say that no bid has been made for Moutinho. My hope is we'd learn from the summer that big deals for players overseas don't get done in a day so if there's zero contact made I think we can draw a line through that one.
Spurs Allday
oops..no excuse for any top player...Not...to be two footed..now days. I meant to say...ooops......
82spursdebut
Re "when we are linked with players like MOUTINHO, ERIKSEN, LEANDRO, WILLIAN, ZAHA, SNEIJDER", all that 'linking' is in headlines about them. That's the great thing about using 'linking' rather than anything definite or decided on, because it means nothing definite, little more than titillation and speculation.
Airwave
Doesn't it all really depend on the striker resolution? If we get a striker who can play, up top, alone, then we could definitely us Holtby, who, as others have mentioned is more of A VDV type player. With Dembele and Sandro behind, he will not have to go as deep anyway, but is most certainly not afraid of a good tackle.

I would still rather we get Schneijder or Kaka on loan for the balance of the season but that doesn't mean there is not a huge benefit to having him come in now. If they drop the fee to 1M, why not? Give him an extra 6 months to settle and work his way in to the squad. I don't know how inclined Schalke will be to play him now or to allow him to flourish. Young players need to play.

I also agree with other comments that he is not likely competition for either Dempsey or Sigurdsson as his game is different. I think they can all co-exist and get enough playing time, unless we still plan to sign Eriksson or Moutinho though every MF we add further congests what is already a packed MF. Bale, Lennon, Sigurdsson, Dembele, Sandro, Parker, Dempsey, Townsend, Hudd, Holtby, Livermore, Carroll. That's 12 MF and only 5, at most, can play. Sell Hudd, loan out Livermore. That makes it more reasonable, but only if it is 4-5-1. Get Leandro or Doumbia and I can see us changing playing styles. For me, everyting revolves around the striker. Sort that and then we can properly address the MF. COYS
peterballb
Not sure what Adebeyor has to do with it, you can't replace a striker with a midfield player. No great advantage to him joining now, it'll take the rest of the season for him to bed in.
jod
I am Danish and thefore have access to all German spots channels. Lewis Holtby is Top-Top player snd would fit in with us as a direct replacement for VdV. Furthermore, we still need a " Locksmith" I prefer Moutinho, but my fellow countryman Eriksen could do the job as well, he is in the very essence a versatile mid-fielder.
AllanDK
I am Danish and thefore have access to all German spots channels. Lewis Holtby is Top-Top player snd would fit in with us as a direct replacement for VdV. Furthermore, we still need a " Locksmith" I prefer Moutinho, but my fellow countryman Eriksen could do the job as well, he is in the very essence a versatile mid-fielder.
AllanDK
I think if we can offload either Hudd or Livermore then this guy will come in straight away. Hopefully we can move both on. I'd take £3-4 million for each one. I am not sure about Moutinho. He plays a Sandro-like role for Porto, but then a Dembele like role for Portugal, so ideally great back up for those two - but I wouldnt want to upset what looks like a great partnership - especially given that Parker is still fantastic every time he plays. For me, ship out Livermore, get Holtby over now, and spend £15-20m on Damaio. I really think Levy and AVB trust each other, and that is why we may see some unexpected spending this month.
Sebthespur
Moutinho is not a player we need. At 26M I'd rather see us go out and get Benat and Dzagoev and do a pre-contract with Sissokho. Same money spent, just addressed what we need. Moutinho would be a luxury. Eriksson, Pjanic, Benat, Isco, Holtby, or preferably Schneijder/Kaka on loan til season's end is what we need along with a true up top powerful striker. COYS
peterballb
Damiao, if we intend to spend, is a no brainer. When you look at the top South American teams & the quality & value of their strikers Falcao, Higuain, Aguero, Tevez, Hulk etc getting Damiao for 15mil is a snip, we'd easily double that if we intended to sell him. He's Brazil's No9 so is in that bracket of striker. If we don't sign him we'll regret it when another European club does & he goes on to be worth 35-40mil.
Spurs Allday
Why not send Jenas the other way, I'm sure he'd be a massive hit for Schalke? Then everyone is a winner!!
yiddyboy
sebthespur......think it's nearer £30 to £40 mill for damaio....hence the spurs hessitation. Not sure how much Mr.Levy trusts AVB...just yet !..lol Holtby for fruend..........but No moutinho for AVB.....just a little matter of £20 mill' difference. Don't really like this back or not back the manager....i think it's more about...what's right for the club. Spend spend spend....on at least one top striker.....NOW...Mr.Levy...please...lol
82spursdebut
peterballb I tend to agree with you that it's a lot of money on a position where we aren't desperate. IMO Sissoko & Holtby on frees for Hudd, Jenas & Livermore would be enough to bolster us in the middle. The more pressing concern is the No9 & someone who can offer us an attacking pacey wide option with Townsend being too raw at this time(needs a years PL loan)
Spurs Allday
Yiddyboy, Schalke asked ut we couldn't do the deal as Jenas is in the US to hae his Achilles fixed. Jenas is going nowhere and we will have to pay hisway unil the end of the year when his contrat is done. COYS
peterballb
Get him now, chance to hit next season running, more options for the busy end of the season and no risk of Schlake letting him rot.
Tottenham Hotcore
peterballb, lets just have a whip round and pay him off early! A note to all fans attending the next few games, he is the song we all need to sing together. "We need a striker, we need a striker, oh Daniel Levy, we need a striker"
yiddyboy
OOOOhhh...no..mrs......send Townsend out on loan, to a prem' club......and re inforce them !!!......no...no...no.......he ideal impact sub now......or replacement for Bale or Lennon.....when req'd'........cos' he shows more intent and has Speed...unlike others...
82spursdebut
ITV have quotes from the head of the Togolese FA saying that Adebayor is going. Time to dust off that cheque book! If it is just a recall for Kane then God help us.
Spurs Allday
Sebthespur, the difference is in both International football and in Portugal, there is a lot more time and space on the ball. Dembele does well but defences do notlet him get all the way up field to make his incisive passes. What the pushing forward of Dembele and Sandro does is it forces the defences to stop cheating out wide which, in turn, allows Bale and Lennon more room. Moutinho is a wonderful passer of the ball. I just feel that a Benat/Isco with a Leandro/Doumbia would make much more sense. COYS
peterballb
82spursdebut he'd learn far more playing every game for a Norwich or Swansea than what he would playing 10-15mins every now & then for us. He's still raw & has plenty to learn, better he goes off & learns rather than stay & rot. We'd benefit far more in the long run.
Spurs Allday
hmmm tough one....I read that he wants to play deeper so suspect he's Dembele cover...we don't need to decide if he comes straight away, we've got until 11:59 on the 31st! If we do move on Thud/Livermore then it would be a good idea to get him in now but I think Levy will wrangle on the fee/wages if we do!
shedboy2
He doesn't Rot....he just plays for the other spurs teams (and england)....then i get to see him !!..lol
82spursdebut
you have to question the judgement/honesty of the £23-32m bid for moutinho in the summer...if we needed him then surely we need him now? Or was it a bit of PR as moutinho was actually no where near coming?
shedboy2
Sky Sports saying Adebayor has gone to join the Togolese team camp already! Not perhaps so bad in the short term as we've looked decent with Dempsey in behind Defoe against West Ham & Fulham in particular, but if he has gone we need a striker. If Defoe breaks down we're in big trouble, our top 2,3,4 hopes will disappear very quickly.
Spurs Allday
Shedboy, I don't think it was PR. I think we wanted Moutinho and would have gone through with the transfer but for the third party ownership. I just think that Dembele has been more influential than most of us believed he woud be, Sandro is the beast and Parker even looks to be pushing the ball forward. Withe Dempsey and Sigurdsson looking better and better, the "NEED" for Moutinho just isn't there. It is now part of a wish list. Spend 30-35M to get Benat/Isco and Leandro/Doumbia and we are in pretty good shape. COYS
peterballb
I'd try Siggy as point (up top)..with Dempsey behind....vs QPR......just think...Defoe is Harry's man. I'd like to see it any case....worth a try.
82spursdebut
Peter; Jenas is now in the states having his achilles fixed, when will someone at this club learn what a complete and utter waste of space that guy is. Since starting with Notts Forest in 2001-2002 he played 29 games, from 2002-2005 with Newcastle he played 110 games, total to date 139; Moving to us in 2005, until his loan in 2011 to Aston Villa played 155 games at Villa on loan he managed 3 games, loan to Notts Forest he played 6 games and his returned in January again. On the 18th of Feb this year he will be 30yrs old, he has cost us so much money it's untrue, when does his contract end, the best chance we have is he get's taken out by a sniper.
spu 4 life
Spurs Allday, nothing I have seen suggests that Defoe out with Dempsey really has any chemistry in it at all. Dempsey, Lennon and Defoe are all firing and we have been solid at the back and middle of the park. We need a striker. COYS
peterballb
SpursAllday; ade OMG prepare for the wrath of BIG C... I can feel a few f's & c's coming this way soon,
spu 4 life
Yes i my be sick, but if Jenas is in the states, take him out to visit a school or diner, you never know your luck.
spu 4 life
Striker a side, aren't we in a great position? Nearly every potential siging we're talking about is to add competition to an area fo the field in which we already have a top class player! How many windows have we been through where we were looking to sign people just to plug holes in the squad? With the squad numbers where they are we don't even have to worry about shifting players before we sign new ones - hence the early transfer activity. Get us the one needed striker now to go with Fryers and then have Sissoko, Holtby and Zaha all arriving in the summer and walking in to our pre-season! What a window that would be and what a great spring board for the new season. Mr Levy you sandbagging son of a gun I'm waiting to be amazed!
Slurms McKenzie
peter- so the judgement has to be called then..we could have potentially spunked millions on a player we didn't need....I hope levy doesn't hold it against AVB and we can still land a striker...I heard earlier that Chelsea were in pole for Isco (how many players can they buy?) Also there were reports of us moving money in a portuguse bank and on the FX side (south america)....so funds have been position in two places...doesn't mean anything will happen just means we must be seriously looking...
shedboy2
ADE has not joined the squad it's not picked until wednesday his at a meeting; full story. Make your mind up time; Togo striker Emmanuel Adebayor has been summoned to the nation's capital by President Faure Gnassingbe in a bid to make him change his mind about representing his country at the Africa Cup of Nations. Adebayor has refused to be called-up following concerns about unpaid bonuses and team security. Coach Didier Six will announce his squad on Wednesday. A Sports Ministry official said: "We hope the talks will change his position." Togo are in Group D with Ivory Coast, Algeria and Tunisia. They kick-off their Afcon campaign on January 22 against the Ivorians. Read more: http://www.spurs.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7514248#ixzz2HIutAw5L
spu 4 life
spu 4 life-JJ is no longer a Spurs player after June this year...only 6 mths to go....
shedboy2
spu -Ade flew out of Heathrow this morning...
shedboy2
Ade going to the ACN doesn't really change our pressing need for a striker. I reckon Defoe and Dempsey wil lbe far more productive partnership for us as well with siggi coming on to add something different if needs be. Defoe can now concentrate on playing up front and making the runs to get onto Dempsey's cutting pass!
Slurms McKenzie
We should make a bid for FALCAO a fasle one and you watch chelski and man city brick it, they will bid as well, copy us in every target.
spu 4 life
shedboy, cheers that's made my phucking summer. JJ going i will get a card. two f's in phuck off.
spu 4 life
false
spu 4 life
I see a post which stated 'Modric began to shine when moved onto the left wing'. Really - I thought Modric controlled the game from the middle & despite Arry not learning, was far less effective when shoved out left. Ade going will not weaken us based on his performance on Saturday - shove a half fit Kaboul in there and he would do more :)
Windlespur
For fear of Ade's safety and security Levy never bothered hiring 4 SAS guards, Levy thinks the insurance will help secure the LEANDRO deal.
spu 4 life
Shedboy, Chelsea may well be in the pole for Isco, but that doesn't mean we can't get him or Benat. Benat could be another Mata. Here's the thing though regarding Chelsea, you can only play 5 in MF and signing Isco will only congest the AMF's further. Marin, Mata, Oscar, Hazard, Lampard. You can add Isco to that mix, but then you'll have no width as all of those guys love cutting in and flitting about. If they want to overpay for ISCO, that's fine, get the deal done for Benat or Eriksson or Peresic or Dzagoev or Pjanic or or or. There are lots of guys who will help. The question is, who fits best. If we get Doumbia, my guess would be Isco. If we get Leandro (who is much less "all over the park") I would suggest Benat. It's just a guess on my part. I do think Isco is a prize AMF. Will there be enough of the ball for he and Mata? Not so sure. COYS
peterballb
Peter........I think you'll find Peresic has signed for Wolfsburg so you can cross him off your list.
TQ2Spurs
You snooze you lose. List is shorter, but there are lots of guys. Just have to get the correct iones in. COYS
peterballb
peter -you're right there are lots of guys BUT they all come at a cost and we all know Levy isn't one for spending any money...so far we've nicked a LB from Manu and signed a free....not exactly a 'watch out world' statement is it...we haven't invested any new money in players and have made 32m profit over the last two...you'd think a club our size would allow for 10-20m investment each year just to ensure PL status...
shedboy2
I can't help thinking 15m+gomes won't be enough to land Leandro...more like 18-20m + Gomes....or do we get a nosebleed above our 16.5m record??
shedboy2
Do we have a space in the squad? O r have we a full compliment of over 21's ?

I think that may make a difference, otherwise I am undecided between seeing him settle in Vs perhaps playing every game for Shalke 04 COYS
ro6ertj
shedboy, I hear what you are saying. We need a few signings. Did since Keane/Berbatov left. That up the gut chemistry is what we do not have. Defoe will never be a part of that. Impact sub. But as to the funds you bemoan, I think Levy and ENIC would argue that those funds are being spent. I also suspect as the Financials will back it up. Our salaries have been creeping higher and higher by the year. Not in an irresponsible fashion, but there was no way 5 years ago that we give a player of the stature of Holtby anything more than a low level salary. 65k per week shows just how much things have changed. Salary is what cripples teams. It's why Harry left Pompey, West Ham, Southampton and Bournemouth in a mess. I maintain, that other than a choice few players in football (Ronaldo, Messi etc) you cannot pay over the odds n salary unless your owner is wiilling to eat the losses. In a FFPR world, that should really not be permissable on a yearly basis. Bale/Adebayor/Walker/Defoe/Parker/Dembele/Lloris are not on chump's change. If BAE extends, he too will be on very good wages. These all add up. If things go poorly, there is no issue, so long as a player and his wages can be moved. Adebayor will be hard to move. Parker too. We caught a huge break in that Pienaar was really the missing ingredient in Moyes' team. Bentley is unmovable. Jenas too. Gomes, I presume, is on decent wages. We had to give Crouch a bonus just to get him to go. All of these "mistakes/errors in judgment" affect how much money you have to spend At the end of the year. I suspect as we will run a small loss this season regardless of how we do in the league and in the cups. I don't thus believe as we have money to burn.

Either extend or sell BAE (sell or keep Rose based on the decision), sell Hudd, sell Gomes (hopefully as part of the Leandro deal), loan out Livermore, get in Leandro, get in Schneijder or Kaka on loan, get in Castaignos, get in Dzagoev and sign Sissokho on a pre-contract, sign Zaha and loan him back to Palace. All that should be sufficient to get us CL which should ensure that this year's losses will be recouped next year when we will only be selling players who are surplus to requirements and buying players for the future. We have to choose well and we need t get top 4. COYS
peterballb
Peterballb, I agree with your assessment from the point of view of eating the finiancial Losses this season But I can't see Spurs doing that amount of business in this window. If we can get Sissoko on a pre-contract ,Holtby coming in the summer Zaha bought and loaned back and Leandro (never going to happen) or who ever signed in along with Fryers before the window closes it will be fairly epic work. Thats five players signed in January plus trying to move players on Maybe we could offer bentley as a make weight in the Zaha deal and still loan him back?
Slurms McKenzie
Slurms, I believe we will because there is a different mindset. Saha and Nelsen were brought in because they were established, cheap and required no coaching. They were the only guys Harry and Levy could agree on. Leandro, Fryers, Holtby and any other foreign players will require settling in and coaching. AVB is good with that. I suspect as AVB and Levy's list are very similar and have always believed that it was the owners job to get the talent and the coach's job to get that talent to perform on the pitch. I don't recall seeing much development of Taraabt or Gio in all the time Harry had with them. COYS
peterballb
we could take him on loan for the next 6 months before his contract ends. that'll be the best case scenario if all parties are willing, but is unlikely i guess.
dazzwater
moutinho plays a deep role holtby is an attacking player, if we signed moutinho then he would play with sandro or dembele with holtby in front of them or dembele if hes not playin in cm. Holtby can also play lw and possibly rw not sure on that though
Audere est Facere
Holtby plays in the middle or on the right, any time I have seen him. COYS
peterballb
peterballb, you write "Saha and Nelsen were brought in because they were established, cheap and required no coaching. They were the only guys Harry and Levy could agree on." You mean those were the best players that Harry could get out of the scrooge that is Daniel Levy... And you say "I don't recall seeing much development of Taraabt or Gio in all the time Harry had with them"... No Peter they, weren't Harry's first choice players, because of Lennon, VDV and Bale. And look what he did for Bale, Essou-Ekotto, Parker, Sandro, Walker, Kaboul, etc etc etc... I remember the Harry haters coming on here last season saying what an idiot Redknapp was for encouraging Bale to cut inside and attack through the middle. The truth is it was Harry who turned Bale from the left back that Levy bought, into the most creative young 'free role' attacking midfielder in Europe! Harry trained Bale up beautifully for AVB! Remember the goals at the San Siro? And who's developing up Taraabt up now at QPR Peter? Yes Taraabt has gone from being the million pound skill boy that Daniel Levy throw away, into a 20 million pound player since Harry arrived at QPR! And he's only been there a few weeks...
pelebro
peter - DL is not stupid our books will never show much of a profit if any at all, that's business. The fact is we have made 32m profit on player sales without investing any new money in transfers...of course salaries have to be taken into account but last I knew we hadn't changed the salary threshold (%ofT/O) ...we are crying out for at least one quality striker...as David Gold tweeted today about wet spam...you can never have enough strikers!! So I just want Levy to allow AVB to buy a player who can hit the back of the net...surely a club of our standing, owned by Billionaire foriegn owners can fund a striker? If not what are we playing at? build a new stadium to milk supporters?
shedboy2
Shedboy, just a few years ago our top wage earner was 70k/week. Now we have players on over 100k/week. That is a huge difference. 40k/week more for Bale (if not more) is an extra 2M per year, just for Bale. Any 5 such deals (we have renewed quite a few contracts these past 2 years) is 10M more per year. So to suggest we are not investing any new money, IMO, is unfair. No, we haven't yet paid 25M for a striker plus the 5M/year wages, but that 50M has to come from somewhere. Our revenues are growing, but nowhere near the amounts some seem to believe. Let's just spend 26M on Moutinho and 40-50M on Falcao as someone suggested the other day. 70M without even mentioning that both these guys will command salaries above our highest paid player. 140M on two players over the next 5 years. These numbers cannot be justified. They certainly cannot be afforded. COYS
peterballb
Is there a benefit in signing Holtby now? Well if he is as good as I being told then bring it on! We have the CL to qualify for and trophy's to win this season! And I agree with shedboy2, go get a top class striker now as well. Enough of this for the future, stadium, success ENIC nonsense. It's been 13 seasons. The future is now!!!
pelebro
No pelebro, what I mean is that Harry saw no use for players like Suarez, and the players that he did want (Forlan, Neville, Ferdinand etc) were all too expensive and had no sell-on value. Saha was the compromise. No cost, thus the higher wages could be accepted and there was no commitment beyon year's end. If Saha or Nelsen had insisted upon a longer term deal, Levy would not have sanctioned it. Not because ENIC are cheap, but because they have no sell-on value, are being paid like starters and are nothing more than bit players on a team challenging for top 4.

Since you want to use Bale as the example, when asked by a reporter who was obviously trying to get Bale to credit Harry for his success, Bale's response to why he was improving was quite simple, I'm playing every day and therefore am getting better. This is the same Harry that was going to loan him out because he was a "jinx" to the team. The same Harry who convinced Pletikosa to come on a loan so that he could ply his trade here only to not play him. The same Harry who wouldn't let Pav or Kranjcar go, begging them to stay, only to not play them.

I think, as a manager, Harry's a hack. He's a likeable bloke that I'd love to sit down with and shoot the *****e over a great bottle of red, but to suggest that he did much beyond allowing for a laissez faire attitude to compromise our title chances two years in a row, is ridiculous. Feb, March, April last season, we had no width, knackered starters and subs who were all covered in years of rust. What a manager.

As to Taraabt, crediting him for Taraabt is equally ridiculous. Taraabt wanted to leqave because the manager wouldn't play him. Thus, Taraabt told Levy he would not be extending his deal and would walk for free if he wasn't sold when he was. Inclusivity at its best. Harry built a starting XI, largely out of parts brought in by others. AVB is building a team. I believe we have yet to see the best of this squad. So far as Harry is concerned, losingin the CL and finishing 5th is as good as it gets. Then again, we're all just a bunch of idiots. COYS
peterballb
pelebro, and from which of your benefactor bank accounts will these funds come from? We have, for 5 years now, turned a single digit profit or loss each season. We break even, even though our pay structure has been greatly increased. It's not fantasy football. The balance sheet actually has to balance. COYS
peterballb
If its possible then of course, the sooner the better. However i don't think it will happen, the player himself wants to finish off well in Shalke & Financially it doesnt make sense.
HuddersfieldYiddo
I had no idea you are Joe Lewis's accountant, as well as a football expert Peter...
pelebro
We need a striker now! Damiao/Remy/Michu/Negredo/Huntelaar/Soldado/Lewandowski/Dzeko Idc which 1 just get 1 in...im desperate, if defoe gets injured we'll have dempsey and siggy up front, eurgh i feel ill at that thought!
SpursSnM
pelebro, no expert here. I do believe I can spot a good hockey or football player from a young age. I also have an eye for fundamentals. Know what I see. I can also do math. You don't need to tell me that PSG cannot possibly make a profit this year. I also realize that players come with wages. Generally (there are exceptions) a player's transfer fee comes with commensurate wage demands. I know that Spurs, according to Forbes, are the 11th most valuable football club, but I also realize that when it comes to revenue, we are way behind. I also ralize that our owner is in this as a business man and thus expects his asset to appreciate and for the club to run a tight financial ship. I'd like to take credit for all of the information I have provided but it's all out there online, if people can be bothered. Spurs salaries are increasing faster than virtuyally all of the other PL clubs. We are catching up to Arsenal, who are largely maxed out in their 65k seat stadium. Since 2007, Spurs franchise has gone up from 243M to 546M last year. An increase of 303M. Arsenal have gone from 915M to 1.2B in that same time. An increase in value of just under 300M. So ENIC have actually done better for us than the Arsenal folks have done which is why DL and ENIC remain in charge. The owner likes he results. ENIC handed Harry 40M to purchase strikers. He gave us Keane, Defoe and Crouch. OUCH. Could have bought Suarez and Falcao for less than Keane and Defoe. Better to get those you know, huh. Fortunately AVB and Levy watch more than EPL highlights. There's a huge world out there. COYS
peterballb
SpursSnM, Leandro - possible. Remy, more a winger, would prefer Dzagoev. Michu, 6 months too late. Negredo, possibly but I don't think the player will come. Huntellar, just signed an extension (as I was informed by a fellow poster when I proffered his name). Soldado, I don't think he comes. Lewandowski, not sold on him. Dzeko, not got the pace we need but does use his size to great effect. Guidetti from ManCity for 7M sees a far better shout. I wuld also suggest Castaignos. Altidore. Doumbia. Mitroglou. Arnautovic. All have shown (IMO) improvements year on year. Leandro and Doumbia are the two best young strikers out there that can be had on wages we can afford. Then again, Cavani is available at about 55M GBP and would command about 200k/week. Or Falcao - 50M and about 170k/week. Unfortunately, there are always limits. ManU don't always get who they want either. They have a budget and broke it to keep Rooney and to sign RVP. Despite the rumours, I don't see the board at ManU sanctioning a 30M Modric purchase. COYS
peterballb
so peter has our wage cap gone? is it still c70% of t/o...so where's the millions from Moutinho and his salary from the past 6 mths gone?...yes I know there is not a pot of money sitting in a Spurs account marked striker....but there is money in the ether. We have to show almost break even every year....all good businesses do. BUT we must invest in the team....blimey if we're skint then we're stupid to pay big wages on Gylfi, Dempsey and Holtby...
shedboy2
shedboy, we are not skint. If Leandro, who had been identified as the striker we wanted 4 or 5 windows ago, is now available, and we can make the money work, we will. What we wont do is buy Cavani at 55M or Falcao at 50M. The wage cap remains as it will always be a certain percent of revenues. That only makes sense. And no, we should not be turning a profit in this business. So long as the franchise appreciates, we should be making a small profit or accepting a small loss. The goal has to be winning the title and trophies. We are, IMO, as good as any club not from Manchester, and I would suggest our defence is certainly better than United's. Defence wins championships. All of our salaries are movable, even Adebayor with the exception of Bentley. We aren't in bad shape. That said, we do not have 50M to spend on any player, transfer fee plus wages. Leandro, I presume will cost about 20M and will get about 75k/week. Just a guess, but I would suggest that's as high as we'll go. COYS
peterballb
Peterbalb I think you are being somewhat mischevious with regards to our getting Keane and Defoe, an Kaboul for that matter. The books may show a multi million pound cost, but I think it was common knowledge that all 3 were in fact to an extent largely re-possessed, as Portsmouth owed bundles on Defoe, and Kaboul, and Lliverpool owed a wedge on Keane. Reknapp had his faults but lets be fair and measured, as to what we blame him for.
Frank
Without reading comments, no no no. A proactive deal to sign in the summer is ideal, training and preseason to bed him in, let us look at options as to who we might sell. We're not desperate in centre midfield, and he'll only be playing reserves from now til May anyway. Save the 1.6 mil, as I'm sure Levy has already decided. A non-issue.
tengboon
 

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