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Dealing With Packed Defences

Yet again at QPR we came up against a team set up to defend in depth and yet again we couldn't break them down, its becoming our achilles heel, it might cost us Champions league football.

Unlike Arsene Wenger I don't believe the opposition should be forced to play the kind of football that would suit us. Teams like QPR are fighting for their lives, they must do whatever is most likely to keep them in the Premier league. What is worrying is that even though we knew what they would do we didn't seem to be able to do anything about it, why?

When faced with a packed defence we seem to play in front of them, trying to pass our way through. Chelsea's victory in the Champions League last season showed how futile that tactic is, even Barcelona couldn't make it work. Unless you get lucky with a long shot there are two basic ways of dealing with packed defences. One is to get down the sides and send in crosses from the bye line. The other is to score from a set piece. The one good thing is you only need to score once, as soon as you do the game changes.

So why can't we break teams down? On the face of it wing play should be ideal for us with Bale and Lennon's pace. But you need wingers to stay wide and, if they are to fire in a stream of crosses, to be playing on their natural side, our wingers don't do that. Even then you need strikers in the box trying to get on the end of crosses. Obviously not ideal for Defoe, what's worse is that even though Adebeyor is ideally built to play as an orthodox centre forward he actually spends most of his time drifting wide.

Dempsey might do better than either of them. We actually showed how set pieces should be taken against Swansea, good delivery from Walker, good finish from Vertonghen, Swansea's game plan in ruins. The trouble is that was the exception not the rule. Generally free kicks and corners appear to be wasted, often going straight to the keeper, there seems very little thought behind the delivery.

We have plenty of height in the squad, but without a decent ball in it makes no difference. I don't know whether its that our kickers aren't good enough or simply that we don't practice the routines. What is clear is that we are likely to see more teams playing defensively against us simply because it works. AVB needs to find a way of countering packed defences and drill it into the squad, even if it means players have to adapt their normal game. Otherwise we will drop a lot of points by the end of the season.

Written by jod




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The journalist

Writer: jod Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Sunday January 13 2013

Time: 1:20PM

Your Comments

Buy a decent striker . 4 years over due
big cockeral
We saw yesterday with Tarabt, just what a creative midfielder can do and had they had a decent striker who didn't kick the ground instead of the ball there's every chance that they'd have scored. We need that sort of creativity in midfield and a world class finisher. Also think that the tempo is a bit slow, not calling for headless chicken mode but fast enough so as to not allow teams to get set against us when we attack.
thfc1882whl
I've just written a similar piece on here about wing play and that our 2 wingers don't play wide even when we were set up with 2 strikers and playing against a very resolute and well marshaled parked bus. We haven't got a lock smith as yet so as you say Jod only way is round the outside. Don't even get started on bad delivery from corners and free kicks!!!
longtimespur
Arsene Wenger, when he complains that teams don't play the open style of football that he would like to play against, reminds one of the British complaining that a colonial revolution doesn't stand like an imperial army in formation in an open field so the artillary can mow them down. Today the British and Americans complain when the "insurgents" down stand like men to face their tanks. Silly complaints. Shows the idiocy of the one complaining. Would Wenger play an open and flowing style if he were managing a team without the requisite tactical skills and pace. Fool. Disingenuous fool. Like AVB, he needs to figure out how to break down stubborn bus parkers. At least AVB doesn't whing and moan about it. He understands what the nature of the problem is and why it exists.
Total knobhead
Interesting article Jod. Like you've touched on I thought we should have played Dempsey earlier, Ade done nothing good and the game was so slow it suited dempseys pace and he might have been able unlock the door. We were also let had on some poor touches and sloppy passing, even from the likes of Parker which you can't afford against such resolute opposition.

All our attacking threat comes from the speed of our wingers, Lennon and Bale rip teams apart but they rely on space to run into to do their damage. VDV and Modric had that creativity in tight situations that would have opened up QPR and maybe we need to replace at least one of them.
T.H.F.Chris
*let down by
T.H.F.Chris
the fact remains that no-one will win every game and when teams do park the bus, especially on a narrow pitch like at Loftus road then in will be very hard for any team. you need a quick goal and then the flood gates can be opened. AVB knew that, he said as much afterwards, if ade or defoe had found the net in that early chance we would probably have won by a margin and AVB would be hailed as the tactical winner. tactics can't win a game like that alone, you need a moment of creativity which we lack without modric and VDV and we need a clinical finisher
Guernman
Ade is too slow and as good as Dembele is he is not actually doing much creating and he doesn't score either.

Without a lethal striker and Defoe as impact sub we will NEVER score enough goals. Defoe deserves to be part of the squad Ade doesn't. Dembele may need to look at playing behind the striker and competing with Siggy and Dempsey and allow us to have a creative midfielder.

Bale is off then in summer so complete reform will happen with more good players and less quality players.
thfan
Jod.. good article.. Alan Hansen said the same on MoTd get round outside, turn the defenders.. crosses into box... now a thought... would we welcome Modric back? As he has the skill to pass the ball in packed bus parked defenses tactics....if RM and Jose feel he is not right for them, and he was voted worst buy in Spain... or will we see a summer swop.. bale for modric + cash... Would Modric return.. as he and Daniel Levy have a history...
Block D Spurs
modric is still wanted by united and chelsea so can't see us getting him. he wouldn't want to take a step back either
Guernman
If Ade had put his chance away in the first five minutes after Defoe's saved and rebounded shot, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Perhaps the ACN will be doing us a favour as it will give the in-form Dempsey a run of games.
ParkLane67
The problem we have is that teams know we lack creativity so it makes it easy and sensible for them to sit back and let us play in front of them knowing we are normally bereft of creative ideas and cutting edge in the final third. It means they are under no pressure to be pulled out of shape defensively because as long as they sit deep and stay compact we don't have the quality to pick our way through. The key for us is to have a creative player in the final third. Even if they are not a world beater the important thing is that they are on the pitch. Their mere presence on the pitch will force teams defending against us to break up their shape as they will have to sacrifice at least one player to mark our 'creator' on the pitch. That is already an improvement on what we currectly have as teams don't have to mark any of our players, they just play zonally and we're stuffed. Just one player on the pitch for us that has the reputation of being creative puts even an ounze of doubt in the mind of our opponents and immediately the situation improves for us. Teams can't then risk not changing their shape to deal with our creative maestro and that opens up spaces for us. It is what was happening for us when Modric was with us. He actually prefered to play deep and wasn't the world's most creative midfielder (a Real Madrid have since found out) but he had a reputation for being creatve and therefoe teams had to make a concious decision to deal with him and that opened up space for the rest of the team. It sounds stupid but it really is that simple.
SpuriousLife
Having a right winger who can`t even cross the damn football is a real problem .

Dembele & Sandro are the best central midfield pairing in the league imo .that`s where the controlling of the game comes from .
But in the final 3rd it`s up to Bale ,Defoe ,Adebayor & lennon .All 4 were poor yesterday .Defoe is too inconsistent ,Adebayor is consistently $hit ,Lennon gets the ball & does nothing with it ,very average imo .Bale is world class but had an off day .
Bale has an off day & our attacking threat becomes becomes non existent .

Levy needs 2 players who are better than Adebayor ,Defoe & Lennon .That shouldn`t actually be that hard to find
big cockeral
You`re right , it does sound stupid .
big cockeral
Nothing to do with the 35 yard defence splitting passes Modric used to make on a regular basis .Who does that now ?

Berbatov & Modric in this team we could be 2nd .
big cockeral
BigC - There's a difference between sounding stupid and being stupid!
SpuriousLife
LOIC REMY is off to Newcastle
big cockeral
I saw the 2nd half yesterday, we were in control.. just did not get the runs to the line and crosses in.. bale and lennon swopped wings,, Bale in central position as well....yet still not crosses in... we have to get back to BAE and Bale on left... Walker / Naughton and lennon right side. SO the runs are made and passes to the wingers are done, and crosses or cut ins passes and shots are made, and goals scored... Our set pieces were bad as well... need more variations..and accurate balls in..
Block D Spurs
Don't remember Modric playing defence splitting 30 yard passes that often, more of a keep it ticking over type of player. Not greatly missed either, if we'd wanted to replace Modric then Leon Britten would have been an upgrade. Not fashionable enough but still the best passing stats in europe last season.
thfc1882whl
Get Lloris on the ball more, looks like a ball's up with my MOTM comment, you sure that clearance was not a shot off target, hard to tell from yesterday? One option when teams park the bus, is get the ball wide and get crosses into the box, but then we need a centre forward who can at least win headers. We have a forum post on corners and free kicks, they do these in training (free kicks) miss tha target as well. The last home game we took pot shots every time we got in around the box, yesterday the only one from defoe forced a save and Ade missed a golden chance, suprised we never kept that up during the game, ManU just got a second from SET PLAY.
spu 4 life
loic remy for a reported fee of 8.3million,come on levy get your finger out
ghulamville
Playing in tight small areas and not trying to split the opposition with good pass out to players who should be but are not trying to find space away from the group!we should have won against a ***** qpr team simple.need better players in the last third who can score goals.
Little spur
daniel sturridge will be a hell of a player for the scousers me feels
ghulamville
If we don't get at least one more quality player in this January then I will have to resign myself to the fact that Levy is not taking us in the right direction and is looking at profit first. It has been obvious we need a quality striker since Berby left and we have brought in only good strikers and good strikers and not good enough. he may think Ade is quality but imo he has potential to be quality but lacks the motivation and mind to be so because he is self obsessed.

I can forgive Levy if he bring just one player in after our initial two players for the future but if he doesn't bring at least one quality when AVB had kept us in it with a weaker squad and losing our better players then that would be criminal.

I hold judgement until end of January but I am getting slightly worried as this window is taking shape of the last one. two early signing then nothing until last day, a panic buy.
thfan
jod, did you actually see the game? we did break them down a few times, created excellent chances that were either saved or not taken by our 'strikers', it's not a fact of breaking teams down, it's simply that we're not taking the chances when they come along.
jabbatheyid
Can packed defences keep out RVP or Louis Suarez, no they can't as their goal scoring figures prove (RVP 21 by mid January), proper strikers with movement, and goal scorers instincts, and determination, will always score. The choices you have is to go down the sides as you say, to pass to feet into them to buy free kicks, and if you get into the box that is packed, if you get touched, go down, force refs to make decisions. Having said all of that in spite of their packed defence we had 16 shots on goal, 7 on target, a decent striker would score at least 1 in those circumstances. I am 71 fecking years old and I would be gutted to miss the rebound chance that Adebayor missed. GKs can only make the saves you allow them to make, the bloody goal is 8yds x 8ft for Christ's sake.
Frank
fantastic stuff in man c vs farce 'n all. red card, penalty save and all. nil nil farce 'n all a man down. lol. a pox on them both, but a loss to farce 'n all the more delicious.
Total knobhead
Who would want to be a referee ?

After 2-3 replays he got it 100% spot on ,definite penalty & sending off .Only shame is that this player holding on business , doesn`t get punished more often .Hopefully it doesn`t ruin a potentially great game ,but the ref was left with no choice ,just be consistent
big cockeral
Sturridge with regular games, with his pace, movement and general ability, will do well at Liverpool, as he showed today in his debut at OT, he may well be cheap at £12M. Mind you he would be no good for Spurs, or the fans, as his name doesn't in oni, or ez, and he didn't come from La Liga, or Serie A, and every other team in the top half of the PL wasn't after him, unlike most of our alleged targets.
Frank
Sturridge would be a good player if he wasn`t so greedy & self indulgent .Glad he didn`t come here ,overrated imo
big cockeral
the detestable 10-man farce 'n all go down a goal to the almost equally detestable man c.
Total knobhead
to be clear, farce 'n all the most detestable collection of miserable ********s in the football world. good to see them down a man and down a goal.
Total knobhead
come on man city rattle a few in
spu 4 life
nil-2 at emirates. we may see farce 'n all lose much of the positive goal difference today. pour it on 'em, citeh. spike them on th
Total knobhead
funny to see such a mild word censored. but farce 'n all are down by two and their positive goal difference statistic could melt considerably today.
Total knobhead
come on city clean sheet and score 6/7 whore 8
spu 4 life
Me thinks you've been reading my comments and articles on other sites.
Med1
If we dont get the top striker this window then enic have had enough time at spurs!new owners wanted who give a cent about the football team that is spurs.windows are opened for a reason to let the smell and stale air out and let freash air in!come on danial levy take the chance it might be the last one.
Little spur
If we don`t sign 2 attacking plyers this window then we can`t start calling him ..............

Denial Levy
big cockeral
Packed defence means you have lots of possession and can't use long runs with crosses, so wing play is largely nullified. The way to break it down (no system will work anytime) is to use short, quick touch passes with os of movement. Defoe and Adebayor aren't able to play that way. It's instinctual. They don't have it. Adebayor takes forever and I have yet to see anyone who gets what Defoe is doing. So then it comes down to free kicks, corners and execution. We have the guys to deliver. They just aren't. Bale, Walker, there were chances. There were corners too. You also have to shoot more. Good contact shots where the keeper can do no better than perry and where deflections can change a game. We didn't shoot enough yesterday. Some times we are just too fancy. Even with that, Barca, RM, United, City, with all that talent, don't win every time out. It's why they play the games and why betting exists. Anything can happen. Have a solid Defence, don't concede and you can't lose. Our final third work needs so professional, diligent practice. COYS
peterballb
Absolutely Little Spur, and Big C, Levy has until 31/01 to prove that he is a worthy chairman of our beloved club, and has the ambition, drive, and bottle, to allow us to go up up and away, otherwise him and Bahamas Joe should pi$$ off and sell to allow somebody else to have a go. Reminder 13 years, 8 managers, 1 trophy, and still a 36,000 capacity stadium, impressive ain't it.
Frank
peterballbso wing play is largely nullified ? that`s complete bollox because when things get congested that`s when wingers come into their own .
Lennon had numerous chances to take on his man but constantly failed ,the left back was even that good .Lennon can`t cross can`t shoot ,brilliant .
And Bale had a poor game ,not slating though because his ratio of good games to bad is brilliant .
The ideas got so bad they were shooting from pathetic distances . No intelligence in our game yesterday ,missing Modric badly
big cockeral
Dembele not creative enough. Defoe, Ade and Dempsey do not have the skill to move the ball quickly. Ade is absolutely useless slows everything down and is lazy. Dempsey can score and has some good vision but he is slow and doesn't really fit in to how we want to play he will have a few good games but that is it. Lennon when on fire can be great but is too inconsistent and needs competition. We need a striker that scores. I drul at RVP if we had a player like that what a difference.

In paper today Holtby interested in Everton as he and his dad supports them and his club wanting to get cash and sell now. Not getting good vibes from this kid he seems interested in getting back into the PL but not sure he is committed to wanting to play for us.

Beckham settled in London worth a punt to bring in revenue from shirt sales, raise profile of club abroad, bring some experience in the dressing room and to throw on for Lennon when we need a cross in the box or to actually teach Lennon how to cross the ball. I would love to see Beckham at the club although I doubt it would happen.
thfan
thfan -Beckham?!!??!?!?! Are you mad? Or do you still think that Redknapp is our manager?
rahn DMC
keep the width, keep the ball, not so many pot shots, lots of movement, not 442. try to keep bale and lennon on their best sides, either breaking into the middle but NOT swapping sides for long periods.
tophobunty
Todays referee Mike Dean was sponsored by Clinton Cards.
spu 4 life
BigC, when did the ball get out there? When was Lennon and Bale provided a Ball they could run with? There was nothing yesterday. Bale and Lennon both need room to operate. They both like to run with the ball. There was no room. Bale rarely, from a standstill makes a defender look a fool in tight space and Lennon rarely had the ball. How many touches did they get yesterday? If Modric were there in place of Dembele would still have had to deal with the fact that Defoe and Adebayor have no chemistry and are devoid of ideas. So, the only option would have been to go out wide with the ball. And Guess what, with Modric, VDV and ADE in the lineup, teams parked the bus against Harry and got results. Why? Because we didn't use free kicks/corners to full effect and because there was not enough incisive passes. Watch the deft tic-i-tac passing of Mata. These little touches, give and go's require so much understanding between players. How many, in our squad, can make those passes and those runs? I would suggest, not many. Parker, Dawson, Adebayor, Defoe, Walker certainly not. Naughton too, looked really slow of thought yesterday. The guys are running out of ideas and I believe a large part is due to our lacking a real presence in the middle of the park. A true, up top, lone striker and a string-puller are needed along with the wing cover. All of these players must be able to play at pace. Benat, Negredo and Son are probably the best ones out there if it's to be winning now. If it's just to get top 4 and to continue building with young guys, there are other players. Leandro is the striker we need. Moutinho does not make Defoe or Adebayor any better. I question whether he is what we need. I like the way Sandro, Dembele and now Parker are pushing the ball forward. What they need is 4 options for passes as the stride forward. Where were the options yesterday? There was a paucity of useful runs and we thus struggled. Checked the runs and started again. Walker and Naughton needed to free up Bale and Lennon by running outside of them. There was none of that. Our players in possession of the ball greatly lack attacking options. Either that or they can't see it. I'll suggest the latter as I don't recall once seeing Defoe or Adebayor running in to a great shooting space. Defoe and Walker completely lack the football brain to succeed at that stye. Adebayor lacks the motivation. Dawson lacks the football ability it too but all I expect of him is to be sound defensively and give the ball to someone who knows what to do with it. COYS
peterballb
I think the first thing we need is a football man who is responsible for signing players. Levy can not get the job done and is becoming a joke figure now. He should get back to the job of getting everything in order to get the stadium built. Then we need a creative midfield player, a top centre forward and a player who will push Lennon for a first team spot. I would have thought if Levy had any brains that the mistakes in the last January transfer window would never happen again. If I was AVB then he must have been given a transfer budget each season plus what he brings in for sales. He has to start banging down doors to get the players he needs in. If as expected Bale goes next season it will really show that the owners are only interested in profit. Levy use to sell we are not a selling club but I'm not too sure about that one. It must be time to cut our losses with JJ, Bentley and get rid now.
nothappyharry
thfan, have you been hiding somewhere , we have signed holtby he joins us in july , as for beckham , come on he is finished the man is a clown , let him join the circus at loftus road .
ledleygomez
cant be missing moddy as we had him an vdv an still failed to break down teams. and bale is class but world class dont get ahead of urself.
123spurs
peterballb Iam not buying that for one minute .Bale was poor he had the ball, & did nothing with it ,simple as that .lennon had the ball & did nothing with it .If you`re so smart check out the 42nd minute .Lennon had the ball ,lost it ,got it back on the rebound ,bad pass lost it ,amazingly got it back again & AGAIN lost it .Our attacking players had the ball but were poor with it ,Adebayor missed 2 sitters .Name me one thing Defoe did in the second half ?

We need a lock picker ,you cannot open a tin of beans without a tin opener ,Spurs don`t have one .Use to have one with Modric ,many succeed in one league & fail in another ,nothing new .

Buy a lock picker for our opponents defences then 4 th is a possibility .Lennon couldn`t even pick his own nose
big cockeral
TK I'm loving the historical references in your comments, colonial Britton and a pox on farce'n all, brilliant lol.
T.H.F.Chris
Just seen Arsenal v Man City, seen Vincent Kompany get sent off for a tackle in which he won the ball. Yet again the good old fashioned full bodied tackle is penalised. It's a bloody good job the likes of Ron Harris, Mark Dennis, Graham Souness, Norman Hunter, Tommy Smith, Peter Storey, and our beloved Dave Mackay are not playing nowadays, they wouldn't last 10 minutes, first tackle and off. The modern authorities, and referees, are turning football into a girl's game. Perhaps that is the objective, in 10-20 years are we being prepared for open mixed football, we might as well the way we are going.
Frank
Arsenal 0 Man City 2, great result, the only pity is before Kompany went City should have got 4 or 5 and cocked their goal difference up. Next week-end if we could only beat Man U at home, although their away record is awesome, it would suit us if Arsenal beat Chelsea, we would be 3rd and Arsenal would still be 6 behind us until their game in hand.
Frank
Even when we had Modric and VDV, opposition teams used to park the bus against us and succeed. QPR used the same tactic against Chelsea and won. I think that there are two problems here. 1. Too much is being made of this draw to QPR. 2. The expectations of some Spurs fans on this forum are too high. I don't mind being unpopular by saying that either. I think that some of you need to be more realistic, we can't win or play excellently every week. There will be games when we're poor and lose or draw. That is football.
Fanman
"TK I'm loving the historical references in your comments, colonial Britton and a pox on farce'n all, brilliant lol," T.H.F.Chris.

Chris, we aim alternatively to please and to irritate. Thanks for your moral support for the two endeavors.

Total knobhead
breaking down defences when you have two jet healed wingers....they need to take their man on on the outside and cross with their stronger foot...we may not have the best CF's in the world but Ade or Dempsey should get into the box as well as the opposite winger at the back post...what you don't is play them on their weaker sides and get them to cut into trouble all game!
shedboy2
Fanman - you're right sometimes things don't go for you in footie, sometimes we make mistake...I don't think there's any major gnashing of teeth about not beating QPR...the frustration is bubbling up from the lack of activity in the transfer/striker market...
shedboy2
Isn`t the problem more that this was predictable ?
big cockeral
Frank- I wouldn't like to go back to people kicking lumps out of each other but Kompany's challenge was controlled (even though his trailing leg was slightly off the deck) and fair....if we take the physicality out of the game we should all just start watching basketball or that other girls game netball...
shedboy2
Parker 2nd in MoTM vote...wtf? he showed why he's now Sandro's under-study.
shedboy2
shedboy2 Don`t agree at all .Kompany had to go ,it wasn`t malicious but where do you draw the line ? IMO both were reds that wouldn`t have been 20 years ago .But for the good of the game right decisions .Today not a problem ,next week a £20 million superstar has one of his legs broken. You have to protect the better players or you`ll end up watching bench players becoming first teamers .
But you`re not really protecting the player ,you`re protecting the spectator ,something fans like Frank are blind to see .
big cockeral
Back to the article, we did break them down as was stated previously within th efirst five minutes but we have to take our chances. yesterdays game highlighted how far Ade is off his game, good reactions fro Ceasar aside, thats was an open goal he failed to score in! As for set pieces both bale and Walker came within inches of scoring in the first half! Our very limited firepower is what is costing us at the moment. Is there a correlation with Defoe not scoring and Ade playing behind him? Against packed defense away from home surely playing the two "big" men of Ade and Dempsey is the way to go?
Slurms McKenzie
how much were we quoted for Remy? not convinced he was right for us but anyway we can't possibly expect to compete with Giants like Toon with their huge stadium and all the extra revenue that brings in they are light years ahead of us....
shedboy2
You can have "blood an snot" challenges without "kicking lumps out of one another, in fact players used to play longer, and more career games then than many do now. Football is supposed to be a man's game, with controlled physical contact, so that you have to be brave and show resolve to prevail, not try and out do your rivals tattoo count, it's more like TOWIE than a mans game.
Frank
BC- I see where you're coming from and to certain point agree but for me that was a controlled challenge, never a leg breaker. Protecting the better players would help if they stopped carding them for diving after they have been fouled...and if they stopped diving in the first place.
shedboy2
shedboy2, agreed. The lack of transfer activity is making people a bit nervy. Newcastle signing Remy won't help with that either. We can all see the areas that we need to improve in, but we aren't getting the players in that we need. If we don't sign anyone in January and we miss out on a Champions League spot there will be a backlash by the fans against Levy I think. It would be criminal if we didn't bring in anyone in January.
Fanman
yep, Fanman - I can see it going that way too...
shedboy2
Apparantly we're interested in Son Heung-Min. He can play on either wing or as a striker. That is just what we need. Give Lennon aand Bale something to think about.
Fanman
...after-all we fired a manager who on the face of it was doing a good job (this is not a pro-arry stance nor an Arry debate) but had a number of underlying problems....we can 'fire' our owners who on the face of it are doing a good job but also have underlying issues, can't we?
shedboy2
shedboy2 It`s all about keeping the best players on the pitch .
Suarez,RVP ,Bale ,Rooney ,Aguero etc etc like it or not they need protecting ,they make the game what it is
big cockeral
shedboy2, nope. Nothing that we can do about the owners. Recently I've been fearing that we'll end up as frustrated as the Arsenal fans are at their board.
Fanman
fanman- at the start of the window most people agreed that we needed a striker and creative mid....but we sign for next year and the future (not a bad thing) now hopefully we'll still do something this window (although it's still bad management to be left in our current striker predicament) Son Heung-Min not seen the guy but again do we need a 'potential' signing to consolidate or a proven player? it's almost Saha and Nelson in reverse instead of being past it they ain't quite there yet...but they are cheap!
shedboy2
...after-all we fired a manager who on the face of it was doing a good job (this is not a pro-arry stance nor an Arry debate) but had a number of underlying problems....we can 'fire' our owners who on the face of it are doing a good job but also have underlying issues, can't we?

Oh dear shedboy 2 ,the apple really does fall far from the tree .You used to be intelligent ,Harry got sacked through his own politics that he himself created .The contract was there for him to sign ,he said NO .
Best thing Levy ever did was get rid of Harry .Since 2012 we won 1 away game under Harry ,& lost to Norwich & drew with Stoke at home
big cockeral
fanman- If Arse don't qualify for CL you watch what they will do about the owners....they'll stop going and hit them in the pocket. There are already lot's of empty seats (granted paid for at the moment) We're a long way from a rebellion yet but they creep up when/where you least expect them...
shedboy2
BC- read it again...you'll see I agree with you...you state the underlying issues...and I am still intelligent...;)
shedboy2
I disagree about keeping Lennon and Bale on their best sides. As you say, takes just one goal to make the opposition's tactic as futile because they are a goal down. If Bale goes right, then he has an opportunity of shooting from the wing position on his strong foot. Lennon HAS set Bale & Defoe up from the left THIS season. The point of switching them is simple: the opposition have set themselves up to double up on Lennon near the box, and the cater for Bale differently because he often runs from deep. If you switch around, the opposition has some more things to think about. You cannot cover everything. Changing nothing also plays into their hands. I could entertain the idea of keeping wingers on their primary sides IF we had a major threat from crosses, but Defoe is just not that, and Ade is often roaming far away from the 6 yard box.
TonyRich
not in a sexual way but of those who could be avilable I fancy Itzo from Malaga
tophobunty
TR- switch em for 5-10 mins to confuse the oppo but imo all you have to do is watch the games and you'll see where they are more effective....as for shooting they were turning into a crowd....get to the byeline and cross...it's very effective and if crossed betweent defence and GK even Defoe can get onto them!
shedboy2
top -don't know who that is? but Isco his older brother would be very difficult...;)
shedboy2
shedboy2 yeah you`re still intelligent as also it must be me .

TonyRich has written the biggest load of $hit i have ever read about Lennon & Bale switching wings .We used to do that on our Sunday league ,(to confuse the opponents ) all it did was confuse us .(I was a right winger )
This switching of wings in the end defeats the object ,you have a different left /right back ,everything is opposite .It just doesn`t work ,not at any level ,you confuse yourself more than the opposition .

What gets done on the training ground goes down the $hitter
big cockeral
Tony fact is it doesnt work game in game out when tried, the same last season, the facts are there, this one is a pointless arguement. Just when did Bale make that cut in from the right and score? or better still just how many times has he done that?
tophobunty
ledleygomez - just stating what paper says re Holtby. As for Beckham I think he can bring things to certain players like teach Lennon to cross and he brings revenues and as we are in a business like it or not we like all businesses have to take opportunities as they arrive. I'm not mad I know Beckham is passed it but he has his uses.

I think most people are frustrated of lack of activity in transfer window especially quality transfers.

Another point earned compared to Arsenal but Chelsea are coming good.
thfan
bale needs to stop embarrassing the club that made him by hes shocking attempts to dive an cheat. dont want any player like that playing for my club.
123spurs
Bale needs to go back to playing on the wing and put more work into defensive duties. Lennon needs to improve on his crossing and shooting and getting passed the last man. But lack of goals from strikers and midfield creativity is more of a worry.
thfan
thats amost suicidal THFAN, seems to me we are doing better than last year as we are still in the thursday spoon, factor in the squad strengthening from Chelsea and we are doing ok, of course we could have been 5-6 points better off
tophobunty
Your best chance of breaking down opposition that park the bus is wing play, but if you just keep Bale and Lennon wide on a small pitch they get marked out of the game. You need movement from your other players and you need precise crisp movement. Defoe created in the first 10mins, a good save from the keeper and I swear even Dawson would have made a better effort at scoring the rebound than Ade. If that goal goes in the game changes. Next game will be an indication of where we are.
matt hoten
BigC, until we have two players up top in the middle who can work together to draw players to them, there is very litle that can be achieved from the outside unless the FB's and the wingers are going to take guys on and beat them. You wanted Lennon to beat his man and throw in a cross. OK. t has been done 50,60, 100 times this year to no success. So throw the cross in, but that will not make anyone have to worry about the threat that is Defoe and Adebayor. Modric came from deep. He was not the threat. Yes, he made nice passes, but last year the difference was that we had VDV and Ade, who, even if they weren't brilliant together, forced teams to respect them in the middle. Our issue was that Harry had marginalized Lennon leaving only the threat of Bale and VDV, who could be shut down. Our play always seemed to go left and teams cheated. We need all three prongs working. Defoe is not part of any useful middle prong. If there's no threat in the middle and teams can put all eleven behind the ball, Bale, Lennon, Defoe, Adebayor can be shut down. That's what happened. Only quick, insightful passing with great movement and players getting in to open space will cause teams to break down. Otherwise they just sit and absorb. Lennon can beat a guy. Yesterday he was not at his best and never seemed to get in the game. Bale never seemed a particular threat other than when he was trying to intimidate by looking like Ronaldo over a free kick. Shame he couldn't impersonate the result. We need two players in the middle and a winger with pace as an option. Benat, Negredo and Son would do the trick nicely. If we can add Willian in the summer too, so be it. Yes, players like Sigurdsson, Townsend and other will become surplus, but that's the way it is. Better the squad all round. Bale is not a 55M player. If someone wants to pay it, sell him. Dzagoev, Willian and Son could all be bought for less. They all are fast. They all are skilled. They all score plenty for AMF's COYS
peterballb
tfan-It's between us/Arse and everton for 4th I think..as for Beckham, not for me now....and he's not a coach, we have coaches who are supposed to be able to do things like teach a man to cross...
shedboy2
THFan Beckham cant teach lennon to cross at the speed Lennon moves at because Beckham has never been able to move at that pace, totally different players when it comes to crossing. Simply we dont want or need Beckham. We need a creative midfielder and arguably 2 forwards not one.
tophobunty
And OyVeh, thanks for answering my question yesterday.It must have been very difficult for you, being a QPR supporter, having to sit in the Tottenham end.
matt hoten
Shedboy, I hate to break it to you, the team is owned by Joe Lewis. He seems tickled pink with the performance of ENIC to date. They have only managed to take the franchise from being worth 243M 7 years ago to being worth 546M last season. He will not sell until after the stadium is in place because adding a 450M stadium to the mix and a season's tickets base of some 40k plus will no doubt push this little asset up over the 1B mark, especially if we can be in the mix for CL every year. ENIC, like them or not, are doing what has been asked of them by the owner. Sucks to not be able to throw monopoly money around like City and Chelsea do, but this is a real business, not a rich man's play thing. Levy wil be sacked when the owner believes he is no longer doing what he has been asked to do. Not any time soon, would be my guess. COYS
peterballb
matt hoten, you are spot on about the wing play on a small patch. That's where 11 behind the ball needs to be attacked from all parts of the pitch, not just the wings which are, if disciplined, easily eliminated from the game. COYS
peterballb
Big C - cheers mate! ...we have been confused all season. We DO struggle to break down organised defences. Whether Bale is on the right OR left. That is a fact. We somehow managed to beat Man U, despite being second best across the whole 90 mins. We beat Liverpool despite a second half tanning. Apart from them and Swansea, WHO have we beaten in the top half? Mate you can say what you want about inverted wingers, but most managers use the tactic at some point.
TonyRich
peter- you're not breaking anything to me and you're right...as I said we're a long way off but people like lewis won't like their reputation and other interests suffering if it came to a head...and I don't think Danny boy would sit in the stands if he was getting pelters...people with ego's hate to get them bashed up....
shedboy2
shedboy, there is one more element to the jet-heeled wingers, IMO. Yes they have to beat their man, but more importantly, once the man is beat they need to engage a second defender before throwing in the cross. That's what Lennon was doing in the first half of 2009/2010. Bale has never done that. He runs like crazy to beat his man to the byline and then he whips in the cross. None of that forces anyone out of position. It is in engaging the second defender that teams get all messed up. Someone moves out to cover and low and behold, there is room in behind to run in to for the pass or the cross. It's the same for quick interplay down the middle, it's not the first pass, but the second one that frees up all the space because that's when players start to try to cover and move out of position. Get a team running about and you will score. We got in trouble yesterday each time Walker goofed up. It dragged Dawson out of position and we were then lucky that they were not more talented. Compare that on the left where Naughton was twice (rugby style) thrown off the ball. Vertonghen didn't overcompensate and the back pressure of Naughton combined with Vertonghen playing it straight up allied the chances to fizzle. Discipline. Walker is a highly talented player who is a nightmare positionally. Make him a winger, and perhaps his talents can all be maximized. COYS
peterballb
peterballb, I agree with your analysis and explanation why we can't break down packed defences. Also I pay my respects to Frank.
Ioan X
Inverting the wingers has it's place. It changes the angle of the crosses and the whip of the ball. It can be used to great effect. I, however, believe that when you have two, equally quick, wingers, it really does not help you in beating a player. If Bale was thought to be a better threat on the right and Lennon a better threat on the left for a particular opposition, would AVB not just start them off that way. We really do need the FB's to start getting in to the play more. The overlap opens up so much room inside. It's all about creating seams and then exploiting them. Our game is still very naive in this fashion. COYS
peterballb
peter- agree with that last post....I'd also like to see Walker tried on the wing (even if only in a friendly).......perhaps he will at some stage with naughton behind at RB...would be interesting.
shedboy2
According to BBC, Newcastle have agreed £8m fee with Marseille for France striker Loic Remy and hope to complete a deal within 48 hours. Can't remember if we were after him at some stage
In-spurs-ational
tophobunty - Bale does not STAY on the right. He in fact mostly plays left. thfan - lack of goals from strikers? It is because we have ONLY 2 strikers. We actually DO get a lot of goals from front players - We are the league's SECOND highest scorers. With Defoe, Bale, Dempsey, Lennon, Ade as our highest scorers. Lennon has just about matched his assists and goals from last season, so he is due to get a lot more. Despite the debating here, we are all in a agreement that our striker selection is far from top four standard.
TonyRich
shedboy, what head do you want it to come to? If the franchise keeps appreciating in value, he is a happy camper. It will continue to do so because ENIC have a plan and are not deviating from it. That is great from the business side, less so for the trophy/title side. That said, AVB could be the talent we need to succeed without spending the money. I have long contended that it is possible, on our budget to win, titles and trophies. But we cannot leave ourselves in a position where we must throw money at problems. As I said yesterday, if it needed to be done on the cheap, Son, Mitroglou, Castaignos, and Benat. 30M-35M, addresses the striker, wing cover and string puller. It might even be enough to just add Son and Benat (20-25M). Not ideal, but better than what we have. COYS
peterballb
TonyRich, we always seem to say we are two players short of a great team. I think, for once, that could actually be right.
In-spurs-ational
According to matchtea, pitch size shouldn't have been a problem, predominately because Loftus Rd is actually bigger than WHL: http://www.matchtea.com/blog/sport-pitch-size/premiership-football-pitch-sizes-2012-2013/
T.H.F.Chris
TonyRich, I give up mate
tophobunty
shedboy2 - I for one do not believe that Walker can play Winger effectively. For me, he is a true wing back - with the pace and energy to get up and down the field. Roberto Carlos was never a winger, despite not being a particularly talented defender - yet his dribbling and shooting skills suggest that he could have been a winger. I think this is where AVB is failing with Walker - he is not using his strengths, and Walker is ending up being exposed at right-back. As a result, Lennon does not have an overlap option, and some of our attacking play is stifled. Vertonghen's marauding runs from LB have been missed somewhat.
TonyRich
I am sure this article is written in good faith and intended to create a DEBATE and almost trying to ascertain what hypothetical solutions the posters may come up with. Some folks are getting all worked up and the arguments amongst us seems to imply as if AVB reads this forum and takes our ideas to the training ground then next day!!!

We can all come up with a number of reasons why we can’t break down stubborn defences and how our creativity and finishing is responsible for results like y’day.

I think the whole issue re the bus parkers needs to be looked at in wider contest, i.e, NOT MANY tams in the PL are able to REGULARLY overcome the bus parkers. Ask Chelsea (v QPR), Utd (v Spurs) for example. Yes, I agree that our team appears to struggle the most due to the player/manager changes we have had to contend with. It is AVB’s job (and to an extent Levy’s) to find the solution. Not so long ago we had a problem of regularly conceding goals in the last few minutes. AVB recognised that publicly and said that he was working on it to find a solution. We seemed to have overcome that. Similarly, IMO, AVB is working on the bus parking issue. I trust him to find a solution, whether it is done through tactics or new players. We are where we are through a lot of hard work and still work-in-progress. This year is all about development and I am sure the jigsaw will look right at the end of the season. COYS!
Critical_Spur
A top striker....and Townsend ....would make all the difference.
82spursdebut
tophobunty - fair dos.
TonyRich
Plus Naughton not playing left back......too slow in his decision making and offers very little forward threat. Should be tested at right back.
82spursdebut
Problem with the forward line for me, lack of movement from what i was watching there was limited movement towards goal, Defoe was running width to width but it was pointless. No short clipped balls dinked over the top, the team was fine leading up to the edge of the box just kept running out of ideas, thats where the difference in challenging for the league and European qualification are, thats why you pay that extra 10 mill for a player. Neither Ade or Defoe have that clever ability about them both decent at doing what they do but there no Teddy Sheringham.
coys1717
Cannot see addy ever being able to shoot from 20 yards any more....worrying.
82spursdebut
Critical_Spur - I feel that people are making a bigger issue than what it is. We are the league's second highest scorers. Yesterday was the first away game that we failed to score in. Wigan and Stoke were the only games in which we failed to score at home. Wigan basically played better than us on that day. Yesterday was just a hard won point. Take it. As you say, it happens to all. I think one big problem is the bench. When Man U are stuck, on comes Hernandez, Welbeck to save the day. We have like for like options, and those options are generally weaker. A striker or two would help us change things. Defoe has done pretty well thus far, but he does not suit tight packed games like that. His strength is when he gets to move with the ball. Having an alternative on the bench could help make a difference. Because at the moment, Dempsey is offering deflected shots, Siggy offers a better dead ball delivery, and Hudd offers an Afro.
TonyRich
TonyRich, if Hudd ever scores, he won't even offer an Afro!
In-spurs-ational
82spursdebut - arrrgghhh. Ade is now SCARED to shoot. We remember all the blasters he scored against us, and now he takes 3 touches to ready himself - provided that he is 7 yards out... Ade and Defoe are chalk and cheese...but this time opposites do not work together
TonyRich
yes, that's what i'm saying.............or are they just off form ?..it happens. But more worryingly...we do not have a alternative, at present.
82spursdebut
If hudds ever scores?!!!....I am not connvinced that he will ever get another game. With Parker returning, he is further down the pecking order. May be he could've made that telling cross y'day. But my finger is firmly pointed at our striker department, for either poor finishing or poor positioning. A goal in the 1st 10 minutes would've moved the bus instantly. Simple.
Critical_Spur
the wolves are continually at our heels....whilst the fox,hound and hare are getting away.........we are frightenend little rabbits......lol...where's cantona, when you need him !?...lol
82spursdebut
82spursdebut, we're not that desperate yet!
In-spurs-ational
82spurs i agree 100% about Townsend...a VERY good player just waiting to happen
tophobunty
With or with out technical players like Modric and VDV it can be a very tough time time breaking down a that QPR side on that day. We struggled many times last season against teams like that last season with Modric and VDV. It's very difficult getting down wings when it's 11 vs 11 on one side of the pitch, especially on a narrow pitch. It's easy to say just get down the wings and cross the ball in. In these type of games you need the ball to break kindly sometimes or a little bit of magic. Our attacking players didn't have the best of days and i think some credit has to go to QPR for that. I think we have a very good side, better than Arsenal's anyway. My concern is that players like Lennon,Dempsey and Defoe are good, but to guarantee CL football(there for the taking) we need to improve on those players. No disrespect to Lennon who has had a good season so far. Ade, has the ability but is not producing, obviously. No more frustrating than a player who doesn't get the best out of his talent. That's been Ade so far this season. So if we cab get a player like Willian, Dimiao or even Sneijder, that an improvement on our current starting 11. We could use one of them THIS window.
asherthesmasher
TonyRich, how do you work our we are the second highetst scorers?
tophobunty
tophobunty, I believe we are the second highest scorers away from home. We have 22, with man u on 26
In-spurs-ational
tophobunty, I believe we are the second highest scorers away from home. We have 22, we man u on 26
In-spurs-ational
Inspurs, TonyRich didnt say away from home. Either way we do play at home too and that's where our greater problem exists in front of goal and with the bus parkers.
tophobunty
Good article Jod, its a problem that we've had for 2-3 years now. If a team is intent on just defending then we need a plan B or C if our usual game isn't working. AVB being a student of the tactical game should be able to find the answer. We need a striker who has Adebayors strength and physic but with 100% more fight and passion, someone who can mix it up when we need to change or style, someone like Negredo.
MrSpurs
I remain of the opinion that most are barking up the wrong tree, i.e., blaming formations, wingers, lack of lock pickers etc... AVB has given hint to the problem in his interview post match y'day, i.e., if we had scored in the first 10 mins it would've been a totally different game. Also on Spurs website he said, we talked about scoring early.

So, the bus parkers aren't a problem if we put our chances away. The same trick goes for all the other teams that confront such an opposition. The only difference being that all the other teams around us have forwards that can put the ball in the net when it matters. Blaming or focusing on everything else merely deflects the blame away from our poor finishing.
Critical_Spur
How many times when HR was in charge his post match interviews had him saying how we 'battered them'. So he obviously knows battening down the hatches in front of their goal could work and it did.
Madaboutspurs
Yep, we've had this problem for 2-3 years.... precisely the time we've missed a clinical striker. When teams batten down hatches, the rare opp you get has to be made to count.
Critical_Spur
MrSpurs, exactly right. What we need is someone that is able to put away a half chance. Go in front, and it's a whole different ball game. We have the players to be devastating on the break, the only problem is that many teams have no intention of giving us the opportunity to counter by simply not attacking themselves. Not being able to break a stubborn defence is not a new problem for us.
In-spurs-ational
Critical_Spur, you've been reading my mind. Doubt it took you long, there's not much in there :)
In-spurs-ational
this is all such obvious stuff and has been discussed over and over for 2-3 years. Redpike was was clueless what to do about it (no surprise) we need to hope AVB finds the solution this season.
tophobunty
Adebayor was right in front of the goal , no more than 3 yards out in the first few minutes of that game and I still have no idea how Julio Cesar saved that one. I guess when you are low on luck and confidence, nothing seems to stick. Hope he is better after the Africans Cup because if what AVB is saying about not getting another striker is true, we will be needing Adebayor to score some in the coming months if we're to get top 4
Madaboutspurs
Madaboutspurs, I'm sure AVB wants another striker. He just doesn't want to announce it to the world as then the price of any player we want would go up
In-spurs-ational
Here's what I'll say. We have less talent this season than last season. The losses of VDV and Modric are huge. However, we have, IMO, a better team this season and a manager who sees the season as a marathon. I honestly believe that AVB believes he can finish top 4 this season with no additions to the squad. I also believe there are targets that have been identified and there is a plan. I doubt Holtby was part of the plan. That is encouraging. It means they are willing to roll with whatever is on offer, if they will help. I don't doubt there will be more "deals" available this window. If one suits AVB and the board, they will come in. We have talked to RVN, Forlan, Llorente, and many others. It just hasn't panned out. Wages are often the issue (RVN who met with Harry wanted two years - our board was willing to offer 1). Many clubs have been irresponsible. I don't blame a manager for asking, but Leeds, Birmingham, Pompey, West Ham, Southampton, Bolton and others caused themselves huge harm by spending on a hope and a dream. Just like the manager needs to be the adult with players (ie not burning them out - resting when needed even if they don't want to), the board needs to be the adult with the managers. Not sexy, not easy, but the consequences of going away from the plan can be devastating.

Son, Benat and Negredo and we are an entirely transformed team. I would back that so long as the salaries fit. 40M would be a great investment and, with Hudd and Rose sold, the salaries of Hudd, Jenas (in six months) Bentley and a few other who would then be surplus, it really could be done at a nominal net spend. It is doable. Do the players want to come on the salaries we'd offer. Well, there's the question. All three, for the right price, are, as I understand it, available. COYS
peterballb
There is no "guaranteed" solution. Having a real threat up the middle (proper up top lone striker and string-puller) will mean that chances will be created and teams will have to play us straight up. The Italian National side has defended resolutely for decades. They are not easy to break down. They rely on that first goal and their downfall is often that they are too fancy. Defence first. That guarantees you are in the game and then direct, take your chances offence. That's what we need. Bale, Lennon have their place but need competition. The middle needs addressing, at which point, Defoe can become the super sub. Then he becomes an indispensable game changer, as Harry rightly determined last season. COYS
peterballb
In-spurs, I've read every post on this article (sad sunday reading!), but hardly anyone touched on the real issue. Instead everyone choosing other deparments that need to be addressed. About an hour ago, I suggested it being a striker issue. Reading between the lines, I think majority think the same. Yep, on the same wavelength! COYS!

AND...I am sure this issue is under the AVB's microscope, just like the 'conceding of late goals' recently. I am sure he will fix it.
Critical_Spur
peterballb, also next years TV deal will bring in a minimum of £14m Extra
In-spurs-ational
Most on here suggested we'd be lucky to be competing for 6th, given the changes. We're doing pretty well. We just need to focus. It would be much easier if we addressed the issues through transfers, but I have faith in AVB, as a coach. COYS
peterballb
In-spurs-ational, true. And if we signed the likes of Son and Mitroglou, there would be more revenue via merchandising. All of these things need to be taken in to account. They can both play and would be upgrades. At about 10-12M net, it addresses a few issues, if not fully this year, then, next year. COYS
peterballb
Is there a team in the PL more notorious for exploiting the space in behind a full back than us? Is there a team in the PL with more frightening pace on the flanks than us? So why do teams adopt, with a great deal of success, this parking the bus tactic against us if using wingers is the way to unlock it?
Spurs Allday
Whipround for a striker guys,sent all donations to oxford!
Little spur
Peterballb, AVB has been fortunate to inherit such a talented squad. But the way he is managing it has impressed me immensely. Just like Lloris and Parker (both eased in), he seems to be doing the same with BAE and not succumbing to fans pressure. Another evidence of AVB being his own man and decision maker is the fact that despite being persecuted by the fans, both Ade and Walker continue to be picked. All of that suggests to me that he has an idenfied plan, a direction, that he feels can achieve his goals. I also think he feels more confident that he can achieve those at Spurs and that he just never was given the chance/support at Chelsea. I hope Levy supports him when asked. COYS!
Critical_Spur
I think the QPR bus issue should be looked at in the context of the QPR/Chelsea game. Chelsea with their millions-worth couldn't budge it and QPR nicked it .....and they almost nicked it against us (SWP again). QPR whilst bottom will frustrate many teams in the coming weeks/months. it might actually help us!!.
Critical_Spur
The Sth Korean guy from Hamburg would be an ideal Levy signing, he might not be good enough to solve any of our problems on the pitch, but never mind he would be cheap, and might sell enough shirts in Sth Korea to actually turn over a nett profit. I could see Lewis ejaculating over that.
Frank
Inspurational, I guess for me, after 8 transfer windows going by with no 'new' striker coming in, I don't dare to hope anymore.
Madaboutspurs
Frank, that's a little crude and unnecessarily unfair. The fact is, Levy will buy him if AVB wants him and if the price is right. He is miles better than Zaha and would cost about 2-3M less. He, like Holtby and Fryers, is a very good player. Lots of room to be developed and lots of upside. Yes, Levy would make the most of the marketing potential, but if he didn't he'd be a fool not to. If signing him brings in 5M more a year, I'm all for it. COYS
peterballb
Buy Luis Suarez?
lordjohnny
I am disappointed with the draw but yes Critical Spur, if Dawson did not deflect SWP effort in the first half, we may not even have the 1 point. I don't like Suarez (who does? you say. lol) so I don't want him with us lordjohnny. Finally, yes , I am in the 'I like AVB' bandwagon as well. He is doing a sterling job, imo.
Madaboutspurs
I like Suarez Madabout and would sign him tomorrow and he would improve us
tophobunty
Yeah Madabout, but if we had him Defoe and Bale, they'd need a busload of refs to stop us getting six penalties a game.
lordjohnny
If Suarez or Bale gets tripped, we're more like to score a yellow card than a penalty. There's just something about Suarez, he just looks annoying. lol
Madaboutspurs
Disagree with those who say we don't miss Modric. Man Utd dragged a 37 year old Paul Scholes out of retirement for 1 reason. Not his speed, strength, defending abilities, stamina or dribbling (none of which he possess) but because of his creative passing & ability to orchestrate attacks. Dembele looks pleasing on the eye, but his dribbling through the middle will never be as efficient against "bus parkers" as an incisive pass from the likes of Pirlo (remember euro 2012) Xavi, Scholes, Modric ect. Imo we'd have looked a lot slicker and created more quality chance's against QPR, with a combination of Modric and Dembele in midfield.
Guyver
Apparently they're all on Tom Daley's pish poor ITV vehicle Splash next week, as they require no coaching.
lordjohnny
That's just it Guyver, Modric needs someone else to work off of. I thought he did well with VDV. Without VDV, he was not as influential. He and Hudd closed up the middle and worked well together, but it was not the same class. Modric is very good, but he does not get the ball forward with the power of a Dembele and, as his stats show, he is not the guy to make that pass. He makes the pass to the guy who will make the pass. All essential, but it would not have, on its own, unlocked QPR. I always thought Modric and Pav had an understanding. Modric and Defoe, not so much. Modric is a loss, but like United with Ronaldo, I think we'll manage. COYS
peterballb
Suarez would now cost about 35-40M though, so it aint gonna happen. For the same money we could get Son, Castaignos, Benat, Mitroglou and Guidetti. COYS
peterballb
Peter - Scholes, Xabi Alonso, Xavi, Arteta, Pirlo, Modric ect don't move the ball forward with the power of Dembele, but they all move the ball forward a lot quicker and efficiently. I agree that Modric would need someone to work off to be at his most effective. A Sheringham/Berbatov/Keane type forward with intelligence and technique would have been perfect, but we have neither at the moment. Dawson and Parker took shots from 30+ yards, we simply ran out of ideas against QPR and have generally looked slow and cumbersome against teams who park the bus this season. As soon as we get the 1st goal, or teams open up, it's a different story.
Guyver
The passing range of our midfielders is also an issue. You sometimes see 3 or 4 players locked into a small area on the pitch until the ball is lost. Modric would have simply looked up and spread the play to the free man on the other side of the pitch, the player that everyone else overlooked. Sounds simple, but our current players don't do things like that.
Guyver
Guyver, Modric plays deeper than that. Berbatov, ok, so long as he had another striker. Modric's class, IMO, was his anticipation and how he would break up a play and turn it the other way. Yes, he can also spray the ball out wide and switch play brilliantly, but it still requires the other elements He looks less impressive at RM because he is being played too high up the pitch. They want him to play where Ozil plays, but it is much too high. He is not a shooter and is not the assist getter. He is the one to get the ball to the playmaker in a place and at a time that will allow the play to happen. Where I prefer our current play is in that Dembele, Sandro and Parker are pushing the ball forward with pace and in the feet of players who are imposing. It forces defenders to back off. The issue is, we need the creative players to make the runs and get in to positions where the pace and pressure of our DMF'ers can exploit the backing off of the defenders. Our front central players are so slow in creation that it is easily sussed out. We need more speed of creativity. Would Modric be an asset? Of course. Would he have broken down QPR? Not with the players we have in the middle up top. COYS
peterballb
Would we have had a greater chance of breaking down QPR with Modric? That's the real question. Only difference between our forward line this season and last, is VDV. Lennon, Bale, Ade are still here. We lost to QPR last season, but that was when we were in relegation form due to Harry's poor squad management.
Guyver
Guyver, it's not, IMO, a Modric question. It's a Modric with 2 players in the middle with understanding and footballing brains. I believe Dembele with Dempsey and Adebayor would have had a better chance of success. It also would have left the option of an impact sub. What we lack, I would submit, is the presence up top of two guys who can play football, score a bunch and set up a bunch. There is no chemistry between Adebayor and Defoe or Defoe and Dempsey. And why should there be. Pav, Crouch, Berba, Bent, Keane, Mido et al have all looked less effective when on with Defoe. This is not slagging off Defoe. He is what he is. A striker who, on his day is great, who scores in bunches and who does not make those around him better. If he's scoring, you are likely winning. If he's not, you are struggling. It should not be a mystery to anyone why Bale, Adebayor and others have all seen their assist stats plummet. May seem harsh, but even Lennon, who has been vastly improved has the same stats this year as all of last year. Thing is, last year was on 19 starts and 4 sub appearances. This year it's based on 22 starts. I'll even bet the minutes are the same. Bale, lennon, Dempsey and Adebayor are all suffering production-wise because Defoe just is not that guy. COYS
peterballb
Maybe a more radical approach to the problem is needed, if we removed Ade and brought on Townsend and played him wide left bale through the middle and lennon out wide right we'ed have a lot more pace and creativety to work with. That speed of play would be far more benefical in breaking down teams. The other problem is that we need to start giving the ball back to teams, keeping possesion and passing infront of a deep defending team will not create any space for our players to run into!
Slurms McKenzie
Same old problem we have had for 3 years now a 1 goal every 2 games striker to compliment Defoe and his goal rush followed by a famine stats. Ade needs 4 chances a game to score,without VdV he is getting one chance and missing every time in a game. Looking at our remaining fixtures I think we will get another 27 points which may leave us 3-5 points short of at-least 4th place.......... The defence and midfield are looking stronger, even though we seem to slow down play alot more now with Dembele. Would like Naughton to be switched over to the right and give Walker a kick up his butt for afew games too.
WestStandEnclosure
AVB used his squad to best of his ability to unlock QPR. But what we witnessed on Saturday, for the 13th Daniel Levy season on the spin, was how an interfering chairman, who truly believes he knows more about football than the very coaches he employs, can make the task of his coach nearly impossible. AVB introduced the 2 attacking players that Daniel Levy personally chose and purchased in the summer, Clint Dempsey and Gylfi Sigurðsson to try and open up QPR, but unfortunately for AVB, the team and the fans these two players do not have the ability, the skill. or the vision to make a difference, in fact the team looked weaker when they come on! Had Levy backed his new coach and provided him with the funds to bring in the 2 creative players AVB wanted in the summer, Willian and Moutinho, this article would not exist, because we would be pushing for the title right now. Instead we are witnessing yet again, another nearly, almost, not quite there Spurs team... This repeated problem will continue and continue, until that clueless fool of a chairman Daniel Levy is driven from our football club and a new chairman is employed who will give his coach the creative freedom and the financial backing to create his own team. LEVY OUT!!!
pelebro
The lack of BAE on the left is also hampering our attacking threat as Noughton really isn't bombing on down the flank and whipping in the odd cross. This is not an attack on Noughton who has filled in admirable after a shakey start but with BAE in place it allows Bale to attack the defence while still offering the option of crosses from out wide. It would still require our strikers to be in the box at the time of the cross!
Slurms McKenzie
Please find below a link that gives you a guide to the 100 plus players our chairman Daniel Levy has sat down and signed during the period he has used our football club, as his personal Fantasy Football play thing, funded by his Sugar Daddy Joe Lewis. Buy sale, buy sale, buy sale... Net return for the fans, 1 b team League Cup, the worst trophy per season percentage of any THFC chairman in over half a century... http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html
pelebro
Manu's first goal and Citeh's 2nd goal both came from crosses from the wings delivered into the danger zone on the floor...no need to be 7ft tall, both defences had men back but the ball got through to RVP and Dzeko and they both just stroked them home....simples!
shedboy2
Guyver agree I would take Modders back tomorrow as I think we miss him and could be better with him. Peter should me a player who does not need others to work off, it's a team game !!! We need to keep our width when trying to break teams down, not lose it by switching Bale and Lennon that just makes things narrower and allows the defending BUS to defend a narrower area which is easier of course, this isnt rocket science its obvious stuff.
tophobunty
pelebro, naive, you are forgetting how the game has moved on in the past 10-15 years and how the new money/owners have made it a non level playing field and therefore much harder to win things. This blows all stats such as what you are trying to quote intelligently out of the window with respect.
tophobunty
the problem is that defoe doesn't read these crosses even when they are on the ground. he is never anticipating them. dempsey reads the game much better than defoe
Guernman
think avb was a bit slack with his tactics on sat. knowing qpr were parking the bus, i would of sacrificed someone in defence and put on an attacking player. parker was running midfield even as a playmaker. what was dembele doing ? i wonder if its too premature to negotiate a return for modric from madrid when they take bale. levy must be thinking of getting modric back on the cheap
BrownBoyYid
geurn agree mate. brown buy take modders back on loan factor in first refusal on bale at 50 mill
tophobunty
Yes Suarez would cost £30M+, pity he is on the list of players that we decided not to sign along with likes of Mutu, and Vermaelen, an many more.
Frank
The thing is about dominating and sitting so high around the opponants box is that you need to 'unlock' the bus that's been parked. Considering we've not really got the players to do this (et la Mod & VDV) we've been doing very well. One thing I've noticed is that we don't seem to have a midfielder who arrives late in the counter attack like Fat Frank always manages to do. There often seems to be a gap netween the first line of attack and the midfield - are they finding it hard to keep up with the pacy forwards or are they sitting back to protect a breakaway? QPR match was poor all round, but to be fair it was Bembele's first mediocre game. I think we'll make 4th largely because AVB play a percentage game with what works, individual matches don't seem to effect him or our league position - some teams will manage to frustrate us, but most won't handle the quality we have and anyone who tries to play adventurous stuff against us is potentially asking for a good hiding. Quite apart from this reasoning, we need a top striker, wing cover (if he's not gonna use what we have) and a locksmith. I'd have Mod back in an instant - the little ratfaced ********. It's so frustrating to be so close to being the real deal and not making that final step that wouldhelp us and encourage Bale to stay.
DocHotspurs
Doc we couldnt unlock last year when we had Modders and VDV. The main problem is we get narrower when we switch Bale and Lennon, its much easier to defend the width of the 18 yard box than the woidth of the pitch and thats what we allow to happen when we switch Bale and Lennon, it helps the opposition NOT US....that is tactical and coaching
tophobunty
Otherteams know they need to lock up defensively against us, wait until we push too hard and then hit us on the break. We lack the incisive through ball pass, those little 1-2's that Modric and VDV gave us. Our passing is a little slow - as if the players wait until they get the ball at their feet before they look up. They should be thinking ahead and know the pass they'll make before it's passed to them. That's what they were doing last season. This is not meant to be a scathing criticism, because were are still doing enough - the zip has gone is all. Pass, move into space and keep your shape!! - like I know everything!
SPUDMAN
I think you're right to a degree topho, but with VDV and Mod it felt like we could score, on some occassions it seems we just can'tpenetrate the box at all + gotta remember that with Azza n Gazza sometimes they have both scored when they switch and come inside. I also agree that things seem a bit slow around the box at times. I'm at a loss - how do other teams do it? lol COYS!
DocHotspurs
tophobunty, do you mean the new money/owners like our triple billionaire owner Joe Lewis and his billionaire politician board member? Or are you talking about a tiny up and down the League poor team like Portsmouth, who have reached 2 FA Cup finals in the last 5 years winning 1. Spurs have not reached a FA Cup in the entire Sugar/Enic era's... Enough of these pathetic ENIC/LEVY EXCUSES...
pelebro
BC you must be blind our right winger is a great crosser of the ball
keefdayid
 

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