ENIC. Marmite?

sorry hate it

We've had continuous improvement under ENIC and you cannot say they haven't been prepared to spend money, but they cannot be expected to throw the sort of money around that City and Chelsea have. I've got faith in this board to bring us success, but not necessarily immediate success.

I strongly disagree with that sentiment. ENIC have invested heavily. They recouped a lot of money in the summer and re-invested it. Unlike certain other clubs where the money disappears. They have said all the long that ideally the squad should service itself. Ours does. This is the ideal scenario. Even Chelsea have tried (somewhat unsuccessfully) to run more businesslike, and even Man City did not buy any superstars in the summer....Scott Sinclair? The fact that we have steadily progressed from top four dreamers to top four achievers under ENIC, they have succeeded. We have now changed the manager, and we need to be careful . Just throwing more money at it will not help. It is a long term plan, and we should save the money for the summer when we know (after the dust settles on a long hard season) what and who we really need. Yes, I agree that we are deficient in the striker dept right now. I would sign a young Benteke-like striker, that could do a job now, and could become our future. Any big signings should wait. I am happy with the job that ENIC are doing, because it was horrible before they arrived.

Nice pic to go with the article. The bloke behind Levy seems to be rubbing some marmite into Levy's head!

On topic. I think Levy will stick to his word re, moving in different direction and we will get ONE of our wishes granted this window. I am sure he has seen enough of AVB's work to have been convinced. COYS!

I still think that they love blowing smoke up our butts. What happened to the £20 million we bid on Moutinho, is it in the same place that £30 million we were going to use a few windows back for a striker. Whatever happened to that striker. Will love them if they back up AVB. Some news or development on the new stadium would be nice too. If they can not deliver this then they need to sell up and let someone who is capable of delivering in.

slurms very good point........whitehart, good call ref taarabt

syd that would improve us as will the return of kaboul

Surely, everybody has seen enough horror stories (i.e. the leeds, portsmouths of the world) to know that you have to build for the long term not the short term. Understanding that, you realize that even missing out on the top 4 (which I doubt will happen, regardless of january signings) isn't the end of the world if we continue to be at least in the mix in the business side of the table...It's obvious the next real step is getting the stadium (PAYING for the stadium even after it has been built) and then we can take the next major transition which is to challenge for the PL title year in year out. On a similar, but somewhat different topic, you just have to realize how lucky we are to get shot of Redknapp. Our squad is clearly not as talented this year as it had been with the loss of Modders, yet we are doing just as well. If we didn't have Levy and a sensible board we would have continued signing the Crouch and Keane's of the world along with a bunch of Joe Cole's. You only have to look at the massive wages Harry convinced Fernandes to pay for Remy and the other players that team are linked with to understand how lucky we are Redknapp didn't run our team into the ground. If QPR goes down with the money they are going to spend in this window, they might not come back up for awhile. Point of this, other than to talk about Redknapp being a right *****, is that the board and Levy protected our long term health from Harry, patience is needed.

Feel good Tottenham article is poring in - another one in Daily Fail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2265538/Tottenham-equaliser-Manchester-United-help-Andre-Villas-Boas.html

Well that attempt at paragraphs went well!

Slurms - Was something i read online last night, must admit i cant find the source today so cant really say about the quality of the source, could have been a usual twitter BS story. Are you saying you wouldnt put it past Levy? Im not going to change my opinion that i think Levy & co are scared to get to the next level. I also wont change my opinion that a lot of fans still see us as a top 10 club who shouldnt be dreaming of CL football. To compare our situation to that of Pompey / Leeds is just silly. No one is suggesting risk everything and spend £100m on players. The majority are just asking for a bit of class to replace the ones who we have flogged for profit.

I say, be careful what you wish for. There are plenty of sharks out there who could completely ruin our club. Good for ENIC if they have massively improved our value without saddling us with huge debts or liabilities. We might not be so lucky if they sell to a Glasereque family or dodgy billionaire.

vicspur - If they are using future debt, how could they possibly sell the club for a huge profit? There is no way they could hide the debt. Look at Everton. No one wants to buy, despite it being a great club. They have invested loads. You are only comparing us to sugar daddy clubs like Chelsea/Man C who obviously spend more OR you are comparing us to Man U/Liverpool/Arsenal who have much higher revenue than us - so they obviously CAN spend more than us. If you compare us to anyone else, we out spend them all - whilst staying out of debt. Besides, despite Liverpool's revenue, they were forced to cut down heavily on their spending on players. Mainly because they have found no improvement as a result. I really do not see why people think that success is always a proportional function of spending more. It can be sometimes, but only so much. Even that we have already spend 60m or so since last season, perhaps we should not go overboard this season...

We need a forward. Simple as that. AvB is over performing with the team we have, but can he manage it all season? If he doesn't I won't be blaming him.

The only shame in my mind is that I can read the 11/12 financial report. I could clearly see what was going on when reading the previous 2 years reports but as we delisted we as fans lost the visibility.
<>br>Under Harry the wage bill went up very significantly and the squad proliferated to an unmanageable level. The money that we should have had as transfer fees was being haemorrhaged against high earners that were having no significant impact to the 1st team. However, Harry had more to spend than any other manager in our history but he wasted it on quantity and not quality. That's why we saw 13 squad players leave in the summer and only 6 join. The sad facts are that without Champs League our expenses was just starting to overtake our turnover. We were also investing in land and property to support the bigger picture plan.

So what does that mean? Can we now spend again. The simple answer is yes, but with conditions. You have to get into how football finances work. Players are intangible fixed assets who amortise over the life of the contract. Therefore if Levy saw a 23 year old (e.g. Damaio) who cost us a lot AND was willing to signing a 5 year contract AND had a resale value at the end then he would commit to it.

I personally believe we will spend but there is still a bit of housekeeping to do first. Their names are Gomes, Jenas, Bentley etc and we have to now work within the confines of the 25 man squad rule if we are to optimise. We also have 6 players who would need to be registered next season within the 25 man squad rule - Caulker, Hall, Smith, Parrett, Mason, Townsend. Even if AVB selects one of those 6 he needs to create space.

Have faith !!!

Hudders - comparing us to Pompey IS silly, but not the comparison with Leeds. They did what we did... They progressively got better, and then became a CL side. They then went nuts and tried to do something that wasn't sustainable. Look at them now. I will not believe that that would happen to us, but I can believe that an ill-advised gamble could leave us in a situation that could set us back several years. Look at Villa. Villla were knocking on the door of top four (back when the big four WERE a permanent fixture), and they overstretched themselves too. Their manager got frustrated that the club could no longer back him up, and he left. Then they ended up with McLeish and nearly died of boredom...whilst nearly going down. Now they are still not out of the woods yet...despite having quality players there. Villa's problem? An unsustainable wage bill. It was the same as ours, despite having a far smaller revenue stream. It slowly killed them. We have to stay sustainable. It really is the key to where we are now. We just need to be a little more patient.... The stadium WILL come!

Should the question not be, should Spurs be run as a business or should it be a billionaires plaything? COYS

Am I listening to Spurs fans or are all these posts made by Daniel Levy under pseudonyms... At the very best we're reading the ramblings of ENIC apologists. No-one is denying an improvement in the club... no-one (I know of) is not thrilled that we re financially prudent and efficient... I don't know one Spurs fan who wants to be a City or a Chavski... but how can you deny the need for a striker (after 4 years of crying out for one) or say we have no funds after a combined +/- 75'000'000 in sales between Berba, Modric & VdV alone. This is ridiculous

I think it is about balance. I am happy with ENIC and our progress, however, like many, am increasingly frustrated about that next 'significant' step. They have invested and worked so hard, but clearly the next step is a risk, but one worth taking i.e. invest in a striker. The mistrust comes from reports of bidding £30 million for Aguero, £20 million for Moutinho etc - yet the reality is transfer window profit. EVERY window we talk of a striker and in fairness (the balance) they invested in ADe. Therefore, to do so again is maybe a little too risky for them - however, they should take a risk on A striker, even if sadly not the finished & proven, world class striker we need now. Certainly not a Saha type buy, but clearly the scouting network should be picking up the Michu's, Lukaku's, Ba's etc BEFORE they are out of our reach. I am frustrated but accept why Falcao will not be coming, or why RVP was never considered etc. However, there is no excuse for us not picking up a prospect who can come in now (and clearly more advanced than the other prospects - couillibaly etc). Goals can make a massive difference to this team - a step too far ? We all hope not.................... COYS

Good post CTS and Windlespur I agree 100%

Frunk, there is only one league table which counts, have we moved up it or down it since Enic arrived? PS whats wrong with making a profit? Have you got your arsenal membership yet?

Why is 4th seen as our holy grail, the limits of our possible expectations, are we not selling ourselves short, limiting our ambition. It's about time we adopted the Japanese business model of continuous improvement, with no defined end objective. Yesterday we restricted Man Utd, the best team in the country, to 2 shots on target, whilst they were unable to prevent us having 8 shots on target, although we could only convert 1. I am totally convinced that at the back, and in MF, possibly, though not absolutely urgently, with the addition of a "lock picker" we are as good as anything in the league. It is up front where we fall down, we have few options, and a lack of real class. Sort this out and we would be a match for anyone, a far superior squad to Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool and the rest of the pretenders, so come on Lewis/Levy, show us some ambition, let's see a modest investment , not simply re-cycled money, to take THFC to the next level, if in fact that is where you both wish it to go. Let's look at 2nd, 3rd, as an objective rather than a dodgy 4th, it cost us last year, lets not have any doubts in the future, we are potentially a year on year regular CL club, we only need that few quid as a push. Give AVB the chance he deserves or risk sickening him off.

Frank - Thinkk about what you wrote. We are the 14th biggest spenders in the Prem yet we are behind the 3 riches teams in the prem table. To sum up your observation, we should be in a relegation battle based on what we have spent!!!!

We will never spend like Citeh, United or Chelsea, therefore I can only have admiration for Levy on achieving the impossible. Based on this "Spending table" that seems so important!

we seem to be divided. i'd like to propose a toast, no, a poll... the question is easy... do spurs need to strengthen up front, yes or no

or, are you happy with spurs attacking options, yes or no... anything less than 100% will shown the intrusion of a troll

the fact that we are 14th on the net spend list but have still bought in more players than most is the whole point. thats why we are doing well, because we buy the right players at the right time, young and talented that have resale value. harry set us back because he was unable to maintain that approach, the players he built his success around - modric, bale etc were already here, while the players he brought in are mostly gone and at a loss for the club - keane, crouch, chimbonda, palacios etc if the right deal comes along then we will buy, even break our transfer record if we will almost certainly recoup the layout a few years down the line. finding players that will improve us but accept our wages is the hard part. of course we would challenge if we had van persie, he is the best striker in the world right now, city, chelsea, even arsenal would challenge if they had him and he will likely deliver the title for united. these strikers are the hardest to find. and this notion that just because AVB tells the media that we don't necessarily need another striker doesn't mean that thats what he really thinks ffs, he doesn't have to show his hand all the time, that was a harry impediment

CTS - I would suggest that the poll would be 100% yes. The discussion we need is who & realistic or not i.e. Massive investment (Damiao, Hulk, Falcao etc), Investment (Doumbia, Huntelaar, Ba type), Prospect so less investment (Lukaku, Negredo, Diame type) or Bargain but PL experience (Jones, Long, Odemwingie, Malouda etc). For me, clearly I would want to bring in a SIGNIFICANT Striker to take us to next step, but reality is unlikely, but we need to bring in a striker and any of above options better than Saha type desperate bid. An interesting debate..............................

I dont think its a case of either really, what they try to do is get the balance between keeping us a financially strong club and improving our results on the pitch. This, to be fair, has happened over the last decade or so, so I'd say most of the time they get the balance right. Our rise hasn't been meteoric like Citeh's or Chelski's, but, lets face it, we're a lot better off now than we were when they took over, and, who knows, all that big spending by the chavs could well come back to bite them in the arse. now, taking off my rational hat and putting my supporters hat back on... WHAT THE ***** ARE YOU DOING LEVY!?!?!? WHY AREN'T WE BUYING MOUTINHO, LLORENTE, WILLIAN AND DAMIAO!!!!!! I WANT INSTANT SUCCESS NOW!!!!!!!!!

I am with CapeTown on this one, whilst I don't think we can afford the Hulk, we can do better than Saha. Just think if we had been slightly more ambious last January and if Willian/Mourtinho had replaced VDV and Modric where we would be now. CL revenue alone would have put us in the black. I know there is a fine line on finances and we don't want to end up like Leeds, but the way we are going we are ending up like Everton or Aston Villa, with no money to spend a relying on players to over achieve just to remain in the division.

I think it's a smokescreen and levy will bid £48m for falcao with a minute to go on the 31st. COYS

Just a bit of trivia and intrigue. May be someone can enlighten me:

What is the official capacity at WHL?. I ask, because I note that y'day's attendance was 35,956. Is that it or 44 peeps didn't turn up?!!

It is the duty of any owner to maximise the earning potential of their club, as well as diligently run the club on a sound financial footing. No one should doubt that ENIC has adhered to the latter, but failed spectacularly with the former. I am bored reminding people of what they said when they arrived in 2001, and a review was conducted at that time by David Buchler. Stressing that the capacity was far too small for a club like Tottenham, Buchler went on to say "It is our preferred option to remain at White Hart Lane," said David Buchler, Tottenham's executive vice-chairman. "However, in order to do so the ground over the next five or 10 years has to have a larger capacity with transport facilities and other facilities to match. "A number of other clubs, including our closest neighbours Arsenal, are building all-purpose brand new stadiums with all the facilities to match and we must not be left behind. Buchler added: "There is a huge amount of co-operation therefore that is required from lots of different sources to ensure that White Hart Lane over the next five or 10 years can be turned into the sort of ground that we can all be proud of. "The partnership required with the local authority and others, particularly on transport, will be a key to ensuring the success of this." That was in September 2001. They have added 70 (seventy) seats, and looked at Picketts Lock and Stratford, hoping to bunk in on the cheap, and implied their foot-dragging at WLH was caused by a local authority playing hardball, which the leader of Haringey, Claire Kober, quickly shot down in flames. Comparisons with Man. City and Chelsea are of course, pointless, and the scare stories about Portsmouth and Leeds are just that. Neither club went bankrupt trying to build a bigger stadium. However, we had a similar capacity and turnover with our Woolwich neighbours, prior to their move, and why have they been able to plan it, finance it, build it, and move to it, while we have been prevaricating about adjusting WHL? Not on CL money alone, that's for sure. All done during a time when finance was relatively cheap compared with now, and when investment in football had never been greater. ENIC's legacy, while having stabilised the club on the field in the last few years, will be one of missed opportunity, and locking out 20,000 for every home game for many years, as well as the attendant income larger stadiums attract for sponsorship. The fact that we are in the top 20 richest clubs in the world should not detract from how much higher we would be, had ENIC kept to their word, and grasped the nettle all those years ago. What is our motto again?

lodjohnny - can't disagree with that. We should have made more progress and perhaps would have done if the economy hadn't crashed around us. Joe Lewis lost 1/3 of his fortune in Bear Stearns in 2008. That couldn't have helped.

Lots of good interesting points....Fact is, we will NOT be satisfied till...we see the new stadium built. Ever hopeful, that the first bricks go down soon. Just hope we do not lose a few thousand (fans)...in the mean time. Goals, goals, goals.....please.

Possibly Muttley- However, I doubt Mr. Lewis was going to fund it with much of his personal wealth anyway, and what was he and ENIC doing for the previous 7 years?

I never really experienced it or remember it because I was too young, but can somebody tell me the differences between ENIC and the sugar regime before it? I have heard nothing but bad things about Spurs under sugar, is that the case? and if so how much of an improvement are ENIC?

I am very happy with the way our club has been run up until now. I was happy when AVB got the job, I was happy when we got £33 million for Modders, £32 million for Berbatov, £18 million for Carrick, £20 million for Keane, £12 million for Bent, £6 million for Dos Santos, £10 million for Pav (who I now miss a lot..). What I now want to see is some slight REINVESTMENT. I'm not talking about blowing £30 million on some fly by night striker. I'm talking about £12-£15 million on a proven goalscorer who could be worth £20-£25 million to the club as he starts to bang in goals. I am a realist and I know our best players, for the next few years at least, are likely to eventually leave, and that Mr Levy is superb at getting the most money he can for them. It's the reinvestment of that money that needs to be seen.

Sir Alan Sugar.....put a lot of his own money, into the upgrade of the stadium. Would be a Great Great jesture / Legacy...if others followed suit.

shedboy, it's nopt that anyone "trusts" ENIC. Thy are a business. What is "trusted" is that they will not gamble the future of the club for the here and now. That's what good business people do. They only ever take calculated risks.

Lordjohnny, what your post isses is that the first is sometimes in conflict with the second and where there is a conflict, fans would gamble on the first while hoping it all works ot, while a business person would make absolutely sure of the second before even daring to gamble on the first. I am not an ENIC apologist. There are tons of moves I have advocated on here. These are not unknown commodities. That said, it has been decide not to do. Why? I don't know. As for the stadium, we will not get the corporate backing that Chelsea and Arsenal get because our fans are a different bunch. It's not the same. We face the same issues as Liverpool who also have been unable to expand capacity, despite the waiting list and reality that they could reap larger rewards. Valencia did just what you suggest, and now they have a half-completed stadium, going in to a state of ruin because there is no money to complete the project.

Yes, ENIC stated that the ground would be done long before now. Planning approvals only were agreed less than a year ago and at considerable compromise (we lose almost 10k seats and a whole whack of commercial ventures). As to why Arsenal can afford it, where we can't, they had the good fortune at the inception of the PL to realize how important it was to be in the top echelon and we did not. That's where the dispoarity started, which was then compounded by the CL and the "top 4". Unfortunately, we missed the boat. It is a much more complicated financial landscape now then it was 20 years ago. Then again, we could be Villa or Everton. COYS

I think it is safe to say that Levy and enic are a little too cautious when it comes to spending money and Im sure on several occasions their insistance of only paying their value or what they think they might get away with has probably cost us several very good players and big frustration for the manager, whoever that was at the time. what is now inportant is to strike sensible balance between spending to a point when we back the managers judgement where possible but also keeping a firm handle on the balance sheet.

Arse' fans...are a different bunch to us...!!!!!...lol.lol.......we know that !!!!...but they have no more money than us !!...lol

I like Mr.Levy..cos' he seems to be a fan.....But Joe lewis....is ..well let's be pleasant and say Mr. GRinch !!...lol

Frunk as you mentioned PRAT, I guess one of use does consistantly talk that way. and thank you for describing the great Job Levy and the board have been doing.."just as there is nothing wrong in allowing the club to realise it's true potential, by prudent investment" once again thank you Frunk

ENIC, Levy, Lewis or a combination of all run Spurs like a well groomed business. If anyone thinks that football is NOT a business then I'm afraid you are very deluded. I don't get this ambition discussion, To me, ENIC have a long term project plan that is being implemented. Maybe slower than what was planned but then most projects run like this anyway.

It will bring jobs...money...to the local people...plus entice a extra few thousand from further a field, to spend their monies in the Tottenham area, reasonably frequently.

Its clear to most that we have come far under ENIC's ownership. Yet its also clear that in the last few years there has been no net investment in the playing squad & infact we have made a surplus on player transfers. I understand that hard work is going into the stadium but i'd like to see AVB given some real investment or at least start laying some bricks in the NDP. Im a fan of Levy but questions are rightly being asked. However when you look at Aston Villa a very similar club in terms of size & status you realise that things could be a lot, lot worse. COYS

yiddy boy....Yes, fair point...But they themselves sold this project...and asked monies from us.....on completion dates of 2012/13. Now, as i'm a adult...and have a little trust in Mr.levy...can understand delays........BUT...my kid...and no doubt other kids...may not see it that way so easily. Hence.....i suggest they keep feeding the kids with Goals, goals, goals.

peterballb, so true. We are big enough that we are a good team to go to, but not big enough for players to come to us without seeing if a man u, real Madrid or the like want them first. Therefore any big deals in this window won't happen until Levy time (January 31st 11:55pm)

It's not a marmite question to me ENIC care about the balance sheet its their job and they are doing a fairly good one of it. 90% of the prem league want a proven striker. they are not available at below inflated prices

OK, let's call Spurs a brand then. Either way, it is,potentially, for sale around the globe. The difference between the risk between 45M on a player and 450M on a project that will take 3-5 erars to be completed, is huge. The players I mentioned can all be sold at profit if things do not go to plan allowng you to change your course. The sadium cannot be undone. In for a ha-pence, if for a pound. How will Remy, Cesar, Hoilett, Park etc like the Championship next season. To whom can you offload all those contracts? They got their players by paying more than anyone else was willing to. Fernandez, a man worth half a billion has made a hge gamble with his personal fortune. If they stay up, they probably still post a loss. If they go down....COYS

Well..we sell the brand abroad...increase our fan base.....the world increases in population....including uk.......we put on stadium tours....increase the number of spurs shops.....BUT...Do not Increase the size of our stadium !!.........a new stadium will do a awful lot of goodness. May even entice a better player to come to spurs.....occaisionnally, rather than money.

Rather than require more money to come....

FOOTNOTE;After reading this you may wish to kick the blokes head in if you see him, but those wishing to do so, i think the QUEUE would be all the way down the high road to seven sisters, several times over? http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/features/130121/spurs-are-embarrassing-norwich-deserve-better-holt-and-more-adrian-durha-189802

Spu 4 life, you have to realise that Adrian Durham is just doing the job that he is paid for. Talk Sport make money from people calling their 0871 phone number even if the caller doesn't get on air. Therefore the more people that ring, the more money Talk Sport make. Spurs are a good target as we have a large and passionate fan base who don't mind ringing up to put Mr Durham in his place

Jantheman, maybe Joe Lewis likes owning a football club. Something to do with his spare change.

I will keep my power dry until May 20th, I am getting bored by reading posts from the ENIC/Lewis/Levy appreciation society members, and fellow apologists, but I will wait in pregnant anticipation to remind them, and listen to their lame excuses, if we fail to finish top 4 and CL qualification as a result of another window of inactivity, don't forget you can't blame HR this time, there will only be two men, our owner and our esteemed chairman, as before, and their disciples, in the frame. By the way, good post as per usual Lordjohnny, but I'm afraid you are flogging a dead horse, there are none so blind as them that won't see, and none so deaf as those, that have their heads in the sand, or up their own arses.

Two players of significant quality at reasonable prices I feel are Llorente and Philipe Coutinho. You could probably get them for a total fee of around 15M. Coutinho is leaving cheap (8M) after once being regarded as the best young attacking midfielder in Europe with a price of around 20M. Llorente is free in the summer so Athletic would rather get some money for him instead of him going for free. Whatever happens, Levy has to get in a Striker and pass master midfielder. And once those two positions are addressed, maybe wing competition would be a good idea.

peterb-Last comment on this. ENIC could have sewn up comp. purchase orders with Haringay years ago, same with S106 requirements (lot less than A**e had) sorted finance and rebuilt WHL, and now be enjoying revenue streams similar to A**e. Their own man said it may take 5 to 10 years to complete in 2001. Why after 12 are we still no further? Frank, I agree. I'm afraid some people refuse to address the facts, and use all sorts of obfuscation to defend the indefensible.

Peterbalb - Thanks for the info on Llorente, I didn't know that (kind of been out of touch with transfers really). As for Coutinho I still think he would be a quality signing (and I would love to get another one of the scousers ;) ). I agree with you on Guidetti, shame he's had a big injury but he tore up the dutch league last season. I would quite like us to get him on loan with a fixed future transfer fee and go in for a consistent quality finisher. I've heard good things about Son and Belhanda but haven't seen either of them play...

LJ, in the 90's we were spending 3-5M on players and selling players for virtaully nothing. Arsenal were selling players for 10-15M and were spending 20M on players. By the year 2000 they were killing us on the transfer side of things (all pre-stadium). 15M here, 10M there. They were also recouping big money on player sales while we were buying Rebrov and nowt else. We were not, as people continually assert, on a level playing field with Arsenal at that time. They were on the ascendency and we were living off a cup win here and there. It was timing. As I said, they got the boat, we slept in. Can hardly blame ENIC for all that.

As I have said, I am not an ENIC apologist. There are tons of things they have done or ommitted to do that I did not agree with. Where I can't argue is in the clubs finances. I would spend the 45M on Negredo, Son, Willian, Sissokho and Holtby to add 5 while selling Rose, Hudd and Gomes for now and allowing the chips to fall where they may in August. It's clearly not the plan and there is no way of knowing if any of those I mention would come (other than Holtby). Above Coutinho was mentioned (I believe Liverpool are in for him), Willian (Chelsea), Negredo (Arsenal), Llorente (Juve), Schneijder (Galatasaray). We are not the only ones out there. All well and good to build my fantasy team. None of it means the player wants to come. We don't buy loyalty, so it's always a hard sell and generally comes down to best offer on the table on the 31st. That's just how it works. We did sign Fryers, Holtby, Sigurdsson, Vertonghen, Dembele, Lloris and Dempsey. We have spent 63M, have increased salaries of key players and have spent every transfer dollar we brought in. We are at a 3M deficit, and I can only presume that will wind up being higher by the 31st. We'll see. Even if not, it's a deficit spend to date and higher salaries. Look, things have changed dramatically. I remember when we were screaming for a LW for a decade before BAE and Bale came in and finally gave us two players on the left that did not give that side of the pitch away. I know where Spurs will be in 5 year, financially. Does any QPR fan know where their team will be? COYS

What is wrong in wanting the club to spend £20 million plus on a player. That is what the club want us to think we are capable of doing. It must be leeks from within the club that let us know we bid £30 million on a few strikers a few years ago and £20 million on Moutinho this window. I think the club bid for these players knowing they had no chance of getting them. To appease us fans. This is what you could have won. Yet what happens to that money in the next window. It vanishes from the kitty. In fact the only time recently that I have known ENIC to spend money was when we were bottom of the league and Harry first took over. Recently they have made a profit from player sales. Looking at the bench on sunday meant that most of the really large squad has been sold. Only a few bits of deadwood are left and will not get much for JJ or Bentley now. Gomes, Rose, Livermore, Thudd and even Defoe could be moved on for cash soon. Even Siggy maybe put up for sale soon. Then to me we only have one major sellable player left in Bale. If we keep selling our best players and bringing in lesser players the only way is down. I think ENIC do not have the money to move us forward and it is time to put out the feelers. We now have to spend bigger amounts on players as we now need players to improve the first 11. That means a top striker and a creative midfield player. What happen to us being the club that snapped up the best young British players. I still think we are a bit short on the flanks in case Bale or Lennon get injured.

Groundhog day for me. Heard all these promises, stories and opinions before by the vital community. Stadium situation has taken far too long, just hope when it is finished it will be a masterpiece. In regard to tranfers, I would be astonished if we signed a striker in the next 10 days. Dempsey and Defoe for the foreseeable future. Fryers and Holtby are strategic signings to release Gallas and Hudd in the near future.

"I say, be careful what you wish for. There are plenty of sharks out there who could completely ruin our club. Good for ENIC if they have massively improved our value without saddling us with huge debts or liabilities. We might not be so lucky if they sell to a Glasereque family or dodgy billionaire,"Love totty

Ah, Love totty, you read my posts last week? Good to see some agreement, mate. But remember that ENIC is a capitalist financial investment company, so they view the world solely through the lens of profits and losses. They won't run up debts to win. Indeed, winning can have value for them solely in financial terms, which it never will for us, the loyal supporters. We forever will be at cross purposes with people like ENIC. But, they've clearly done better by us and our club than an awful lot of their ilk, and for this we should thank the stars. Look what vulture owners did to Liverpool, so they give thanks to get the Fenway group instead. And do we really want a gangster madman like the goon who owns Chelski? Not I. There are no "good" owners in our era of financial robbers owning our governments and privatizing the public realm. At least we don't find any owner of THFC moving us across an ocean or from once side of the country to another. Look what rich owners did to baseball teams in America, e.g., the beloved Brooklyn Dodgers moved to L.A., and the L.A. Rams football team moved to St. Louis, while the Saint Louis Cardinals moved to Phoenix and the Baltimore Colts moved to Indianapolis. (OK, we've seen Wimbledon moved to Milton Keanes!) Bad enought that the team from Woolwich moved to North London, but that wasn't such a recent move. (I'd still like to send them packing back, though.) Beware of what you ask for, it could be far worse than ENIC has been, even if they fail to bring in a clinical finisher this month. Cheers, mates.

nothappyharry, first off a 20M player comes with commensurate wages. So probably 4M per year minimum, probably over 5. So, on a 5 year deal that's an outlay of 45M. I think we do that if it's the correct player, ie AVB wants him, selling club will sell, player will come on reasonable (for us) wages, and there is not someone else willing to pay more. I keep hearing about this profit from player sales but canot locate it. We have a net spend of 3.5M. We also upped Bale and Walker's contracts. Modric, King and VDV are all gone but none were on the wages that Dempsey and Dembele are on (perhaps Lloris and Vertonghen too). So I have to admit, I don't see the extra cash under the mattress. It's fine to have a net spend. It's just fallacious to go on that we have this huge transfer profit sitting around. COYS

thfc1882whl, as TK stated, you are probably appreciating the facts surrounding Jol/Ramos and Harry correctly. Ramos was talked to well before Jol was fired. Harry was rumoured to have been spoken to after Ramos' 6th League game. That is a mess. Regardless of who spoke with whom, ENIC, thus Levy is ultimately responsible. Fact is C tied his fate to Ramos. Levy wanted rid of C and Ramos hd to go as well. Despite winning a cup through tactical astuteness, the fans never embraced Ramos. He didn't care. He didn't care what the media said. He tolerated them. I never minded that. Wished he had played nice with the fans and spoke enough English, but oh well. The die was cast the day he was hired rubbing JHol's face in it. The fans liked Jol. Frankly most said he had taken the club as far as he could, but Ramos became the lightning rod on a lot of issues. Again, he could have done things differently. I would not have fired him. He needed a year with his new players to make any judgment on him as a manager. Same for Harry (which I grudgingly gave him) and same for AVB. COYS

Be careful what you wish for...like a shiny new stadium...wolves took their eye off the ball tried to get journeyman in so they could fund the extra capacity 'they needed'...now they are playing Championship football.

we still have a salary structure (not cap) if we've increased some players wages it's because others are on less, we've increased t/o, have less players or a combination of all.

we still have a salary structure (not cap) if we've increased some players wages it's because others are on less, we've increased t/o, have less players or a combination of all.

My point is the Peterballb is that if we bid this much money for the strikers a few windows ago and then £20 odd mill for Moutinho in the last window why does it not get put in a kitty. I also find it hard that all the manager of a club who want to challenge for a top four spot gets to spend is less than £4 mill. There has to be yearly kitty and add on from sales. Surely. Or we will be going the way of the Villas.

thfc1882whl, I don't know who is suggesting that the training facility has anything to do with our transfer activity. In fact, levy and co have always asserted that the training facility and the stadium construction would not effect how we do business vis-a-vis player sales and purchases. They are completely separat, although are all part of the same whole at the end of the day. the club shows a small gain or a small loss year in and year out (expenditures= +/- revenues on the playing side). Seems fair to me. I accept that to be the status quo until the stadium is built and paid off. We increase revenues every year. But then salaries have crept up dramatically as the quality of our players has increased. It's now Willian, not Malbranque. Things have changed. People just expect moneuy to be thrown all over the place without looking at where those funds are supposed to come from. Lewis won't be reaching deep in to his pockets. That's just the way it is. Doesn't matter whether I like it. I just accept it. COYS

Regarding ENIC as our owners, I would have to say that they reek of venture capitalists as opposed to an investment company. They have provided stability on the economic side of the business. They have taken some fine young players, some of whom have blossomed and some of whom have failed, some of those failures could be down to there being no direction within the club where coaching is concerned. How many different coaches have players like Lennon and Huddlestone seen come and go in their time? How many times have ENIC started a new project? There has never been a single-mindedness about their footballing philosophy, prefering instead to lurch from one managerial system to the next like some sort of drunken pub crawl. Now it seems that they might have, by taking the cheap option (a manager who was free), found a winner, they are quibbling about backing the guy. Maybe they don't want CL football next season as it may mean that Bale decides to give us another year and they've already got his transfer dough earmarked for their back pockets.
If only they would back AVB with the players he wants, not poor mans substitutes, then I'd happily suffer seeing Levy sat smugly in the stands with his middle finger raised in my direction.

peterballb.... Sorry mate, I thought the subject was ENIC and not the transfer situation and the training facility is to do with ENIC. Glad Levy asserted that the facilities project wouldn't affect transfer policy though. Unfortunately he neglected to tell us that that was because there would be none!

nothappyharry- there won't be a kitty to throw the money in, finance doesn't work like that but you're correct there should be a yearly budget for player transfers and as Peter and I have just agreed that we didn't spend anything this year (We made a 27m profit last year)...both years there was no spending of a transfer budget...this gives rise to the impression that we should have money for a transfer or two now...not unreasonble assumption...unless the money is being used for the stadium and they're being economical with the truth that funding won't effect our transfers...

'thfc1882whl-Glad Levy asserted that the facilities project wouldn't affect transfer policy though. Unfortunately he neglected to tell us that that was because there would be none!'- exactly the sort of lawyer speak I could imagine Levy using....that would be why his words wouldn't be trusted....although telling the truth, there's a deception through ommission.

Don't get me wrong, I know the grass isn't always greener but the flip side of that coin is it's not always better the devil you know.

shedboy, yes, this year is a net wash, last year a net gain of about 27M, the year prior to that a loss of 20M, the year prior to that a loss of 7M and the year prior to that a loss of 46M, all on the transfer side only. Fact is, all of those years, Spurs either made a nominal profit or suffred a nominal loss. Last year's numbers will likely be published in May, so only then, will we know if we made or lost money. We had a balloned squad and therefore, even with loans, I suspect that we did as we have year in and year out - small gain or small loss. COYS

thfc1882whl, we have never had the squad to do so until Ramos purged and brought in proper players. Harry, to his cedit, continued that (didn't use them which is why I almost spit out my coffee when I saw the rumour he is in for Kranjcar) and now we have a youth set up, developmental setup and senior team that all seem to be in sync. That is what Ajax, Barca, Inter etc do. We are closer to that than ever before. COYS

whatever happened to Geoff Stern????

My Satisfaction will be dependant on what i see........after all, this is a entertainment industry.

peterballb...... Exactly mate, we are closer than ever before and that's why failure to invest properly would be bordering on criminal negligence. Surely he's learnt from his failure last season, what if we finish 4th and the nomads win the CL? Stranger things have happened, will we learn from history or stick our heads in the sand and pray lightening doesn't strike twice?

shedboy, put in from where? The money has to come from somewhere and Lewis/Levy/ENIC don't do that. All I am saying is that I don't expect the zebras in question to change their stripes. I have stated I would understand if they took a 45M gamble on players like those I have mentioned. It does not make it a sound business decision just because I want it. COYS

Levy is fast going from hero to zero and so he should. The seemingly blatant refusal to invest where we need it most is telling.

thfc1882whl, that, if it comes to be, will be becase of him. There are numerous examples of teams crashing due to overspending and poor fiscal management. You can't win if you are in the Championship. Ramos set up the team to stop Chelsea doing what Chelsea wanted. We were fortunate, but the game plan was spot on. AVB is much better than Ramos, IMO, at setting up teams. He has coped really well with injuries and has kept everyone focused. He has eased back Parker. He did rush back Dembele, but I feel he thought he had no option. BAE was very rusty yesterday. He is being eased back in. I would not be surprised if Kaboul did not start until late March or April. This is a long term plan. AVB should have been well aware of what he was in for when he signed on the dotted line. COYS

Ignoring anything else - is there any spurs fan who does not think we could do with another striker ?

Windlespur- I like it, fresh thinking a new spin...I'm sure there are a couple that think Defoe and Ade are all we need but as they're their agents it doesn't really count..

shedboy, come on. As I said earlier, before Jol's 5th place finishes and the start of our recent foray back in to Europe, we wer the peers of Villa and Everton in the PL. You looked at the three teams at the start of the year and said that they'd all be in the battle for the 2 remaining Europe spots. Well, we succeeded, Everton didn't, but both held the line financially. Everton are on solid ground, but do not have the resources we do. Villa gambled to stay up. It paid off and will now possibly bury them. There is nio money to spend. We have qualified for the Cl and won one title. 5th, 5th, 11th (CC win) 8th (CC final), 4th (FA Cup semi), 5th, 4th. Not bad for the past 7 seasons and we are currently fourth. No, ENIC will not gamble that away. They will take calculated risks at best. That said, in those same years Spurs have gone from being worth 243M to 564M. ENIC are doing a good job. There is no way in heck Lewis is remotely unhappy with any of that.

Windlespur, of course we need a striker. We also need a string-puller and wing options for Bale and Lennon, but I don't see AVB agreeing to anything that does not suit him and I do not see Levy sanctioning any deals above valuation or out of our salary structure. It's the same old. I just don't get why people don't accept it. We are a very good option for players. Not as good as RM, ManU, Chelsea etc, and we won't pay like fools. If our offer is the best one on the table when the window is drawing to a close, the quality we need may well accept to come.

I have to wonder who is spreading all of this Levy/AVB rift crap. Last word I heard from Moutinho was that he preferred to go to PSG or to Juve, rather than come to the EPL. Doesn't sound promising. We could buy all of Belhanda, M'Vila and Sissokhko and pay them for less than Moutinho would cost transfer plus salary. He's good, but I can't really say he'll be any better than Oscar in the PL. COYS

Say what you like about ENIC and Levy - the man they appointed - AVB now has a small bit of breathing space between us and the chasing pack. Everton drawing tonight was another great result for us. Now we need to get back to winning ways and banish the ghosts of last season! Oh and sign one decent striker!

Peter the trouble with history is where you choose to look from...imo you can learn from it but the fact is we are where we are- a top4 team. As for there is no money then of course they lied when they said they would spend all the cash on Moutinho....so If they are liars why would you trust them? What's the difference between a calculated risk and a gamble??? They are gambling that our demographic won't crash, that the economy will be able to sustain the price of tickets, that web feeds won't crush TV money etc or perhaps THEY won't be around to see the result of their 'calculated risk'...

Slurms.. If you fire enough arrows, one will inevitably hit the bullseye and we've certainly fired enough.

I'm not calling for light speed peter, I'm calling for natural progression and it just ain't happening, regression for sure if our failure to invest again results in failure to qualify for the CL. Rest assured though, ENIC will happily trouser millions from the sale of Bale and others. Just don't say you didn't see it coming when our playing assets are stripped and we're left floundering whilst Big Joe the Bond Villain suns himself in his Bahamas tax haven with a bucketload of Ambre Solare bought for him with yours and my hard earned cash.

I think that half the problem could well be that Levy has alienated so many people within the game that he's now gonna get his pants pulled down on any deal we try to make. Our weaknesses are obvious to all and sundry, so why wouldn't anyone try and take a hard line when dealing with Levy after all the sheet he has dished out in the past?

peterballb...... You don't have to tell me what the team has done this season mate, I've stated many times that given the fact that AVB has been given little, if any, support from upstairs, what he's achieved has been nothing short of remarkable. I can even understand why he wasn't backed in the summer but to fail him in the market now would be disgraceful. You may disagree and that's fine mate, but to me ENIC are like a dead weight and they're holding us back. If we're skint then just tell us, we don't care, in fact we'll admire what they're doing with so little money. We'd understand if we were in the same boat as Everton and we'd respect them for what they're doing with so little. Let's be honest though, we're all scared stiff that they're gonna do to us what they did to Rangers and we don't wanna rock the boat just in case they bail out with the only lifeboat left.

thfc1882, "dead weight holding us back?" has our league position improved under ENIC when compared to the 10 years before? is our financial situation stroner now than when ENIC took over? the answer to both questions as a matter of fact is yes. I struggle to understand your point of view, if it is not based on fact can you explain what foundation it has?

peterballb... I know he won't pay over the odds, or the going rate for that matter and that's his problem.
tophobounty... We were in such dire straits when ENIC took over that it would have been difficult to do anything but improve the situation. They're venture capitalist and that's just what venture capitalist do. Identify a struggling 'brand', invest big early to get the staff (fans) on board, strip assets (property in N17, Chigwell and players), they'll be gone either before the stadium is completed or within a year of completion. It's all about the money with that mob, don't be fooled by the 'The game is about glory' hoardings.

tophobunty... Sorry about getting the name wrong mate, no offence intended. Maybe I should have said. Much like a manager can take a team as far as he's capable, is it so unreasonable to suggest that an owner can also do the same. I think that ENIC have maybe held on for two or three seasons too many but that goose is going to lay their golden egg soon and that's what they're waiting for. imo.

THFC1882 i dont understand the logic that they have held on for 2-3 seasons too long as in 2 of the last 3 seassons we have had our highest finish under their tenure, which is progress in the positive direction, again they are facts, NOT my opinion. And you claim we will not pay the going rate, do you suggest that every other club is happy to sell to us at under market value? Surely they can all not be so badly managed/directed? Think with some empathy, are you as a person happy to consistantly pay over the odds for things you buy? do you know many people who are? No will be the answer in an honest world. So why should ENIC pay over the odds? You mention emotion earlier, I see emotion all over your posts talking with peter, nothing wrong with emotion, just that humans distort facts when fuelled by it, it seems to me that's what you have done on this thread. I want ENIC to spend more and to have developed the stadium faster, but I accept solid progress. I argued with emotion and passion last year not to accept 4th, to strive for second and to achieve third. On this one I just look at factual positive progress.

"They're venture capitalist and that's just what venture capitalist do. Identify a struggling 'brand', invest big early to get the staff (fans) on board, strip assets (property in N17, Chigwell and players), they'll be gone either before the stadium is completed or within a year of completion. It's all about the money with that mob, don't be fooled by the 'The game is about glory' hoardings."

Ah, 1882, you're catching on. They're like Mitt Romney and all the rest of the vulture capitalists. But, so far ENIC has been fairly benign compared to many other vulture capitalists. We haven't as yet been plunged into major debt, for example, and our parts haven't been systematically plundered. But the choices these days, and it's really luck rather than choice about who ends up in ownership of a club is either vulture capitalists or whore mongers who buy a team for cheap thrills.

Guys, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm sure there'll be plenty more chances to debate this before ENIC show their true colours one way or another. Thanks for the chat anyway guys, take it easy and COYS. Night all

Can someone please explain to me the relationship between ENIC, Joe Lewis, our board of directors, and Daniel Levy? I'm a bit confused and not ashamed to admit it

Madabout, I totally disagree, I think with Defoe alone we've got more than enough strikers. ;)

Strong Twitter rumors that Holtby could be done in 2 days & in squad for Leeds FA cup game.

what_sux, just saw your post on the Utd thread. I really liked your AVB celebratory fist pumping clips. I am sure ox and everyone here are ok with that. If you can put up those of Stefan Freund jumping up and down when we score, that's good too :-))

Madabout, I totally disagree, I think with Defoe alone we've got more than enough strikers. ;)

yes, Mad, his critics say, 'he does not guarentee best passing acccuracy but thats because he always passes forward. Not a finished article yet. If he improves his judgement, he could be one of the best'. Btw, Holtby has the 2nd highest through balls made this Bundesliga season (7) behind Diego (9).

Peterballb, awesome breakdown of shares and ownership, exactly what I was looking for. I did a Coopsie with my sarcasm on the striker, sorry you a madabout fell for it. Of COURSE we need a striker, more than anything! xxx

tengboon, I didn't really. If you looked at my post, you'll see the ;-) at the end.

Madaboutspurs, it's only because teams are playing so deep against us. It was impossible for an offside to be given against QPR since the outfield players spend 90 minutes in a pyramid formation on the goal line.

The ENIC debate again. I think marmite isn't the right term for it. I think ENIC run the club well and we're now a consistent top 5 team, so obviously we've grown since they took over. We've grown steadily, without a sudden influx of cash, no superstars which tip us over the edge, making us unsustainable.

Having said that, they're obviously frustrating at times. There have been some times I consider to be farcical. Selling Berbatov without bringing in a replacement is a huge example, or even really the last couple of seasons where heavy investment has been needed up front and instead we just plod along.

Before Dempsey's goal went in I was fuming. Not because I was disappointed with the performance, I thought we played very well, but I looked at the bench and thought "how on earth can he change this?" There was no sub to be made, neither like for like or something a bit different to come on with/instead of Defoe. 2 strikers isn't enough, especially when one has spend the season either injured, out of match practice, s**t or in Africa.

I think it's easy to say they are doing a good job....but there is a difference between management and players on the pitch. There is a delay in management between decisions and results...after all Arry got us 4th so he's a genius and should stay (that is a sarcastic example) There are other factors...in ENIC case the factor is they will make their moeny based on selling our club and look to be gaining the biggest return from the real estate. Of course it would be great if we were CL as well but that's the rub...it's not as important to them as the infastructure. So there is a conflict between what is good for the owners and what would bring success on the pitch...after-all you would have expected owners who were ambitious on the pitch to have invested in playing staff when we qualified for the CL wouldn't you??? We'll see signs of their stewardship if we get a striker or not this window?, if we keep our players in the summer? and most importantly in 10 years if we're all sitting in a new stadium paying fair prices watching high quality football....as opposed to 5k empty seats, relegation dogfights and ENIC just a memory as the owners who sold us to the latest business shark...

The most simple way to look at the ownership performance, of any of the top 20 richest football clubs on the entire planet, is to look at what titles and trophy's they have won during their ownership... Well currently at this exact point in time, the ENIC corporation, despite having 2 board members worth a combined 4.5 billion, (money therefore cannot be the excuse) have the worst trophy per season percentage of any owner of THFC owners going back over half a century. This is a statistical fact! But it's far worse than that... THFC under ENIC and ENIC'S former business partner Sir Sugar (Sugar was a share holder and director for 7 seasons after Levy became chairman) have failed to reach the final of any major Cup tournament, other than the b team League Cup, since the 1991 FA Cup final... Any Spurs fan who could be happy with our current owners, based on their appalling record of success in cup competitions, as well as having only reached the Champions League on one occasion in 13 seasons, whilst the clubs biggest rivals (historically speaking) Arsenal have been ever present in the CL throughout the entire ENIC era, cannot be real Tottenham Hotspur fans in my book... I mean how can they tell us what a great job the richest owners of club in it's history have done, during a period when both Arsenal and Chelsea have totally dominated us???