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What exactly is our transfer policy at Spurs?

Jermain Defoe's injury has highlighted for many of us just how exposed we are as a club with only two recognised out and out strikers in the squad.

The nightmare scenario is almost upon us and the club's transfer policy is potentially about to be found out. Adebyour returns this week after Togo's departure from the African League of Nations to join Spurs as our only recognised striker. His goal tally stands at 4 Goals in 18 appearances and whilst many feel this is his chance to shine, an injury to him would leave us with; Dempsey, Harry Kane, who has been recalled from Norwich, and Jonathan Obika who found his way on to the team sheet against Leeds.

We have picked up four points from our last 2 away matches because of two goals that Gareth Bale has scored. We have scored just 3 goals in our last 4 Premiership Matches. So what happens if Gareth Bale picks up a knock in the Newcastle game? We have two Europa League ties coming up against Lyon this month with West Ham away in the PL four days after the Lyon second leg. Is Bale to play in every game for the rest of the season?

For many, Levy's prudent financial policy is causing unrest in the Spurs fan base. Newspapers report a backlash on social media sites with supporters worried about their striker plight even before Defoe picked up his injury yesterday. Last season we complained that there was not enough rotation of the squad. This season we have used our 28th player in the squad but that statistic hides the fact that Walker, Lennon, Bale and Defoe have been our most used players. These players are key to our continued push to CL qualification and to progressing to the more lucrative rounds of the Europa League. So how have we got to this point and why?

Why did Daniel Levy go for a new striker so late in the January transfer window? If Levy knew we needed another striker why did he leave it so late in January to start negotiations. Apparently Levy promised AVB Leandro Damião after the Norwich match, but the Norwich match was on the 30th January? You have to ask yourself if Levy is the right person to be choosing the squad? You also have to ask how good is our scouting team?

Newcastle managed to pick up Moussa Sissoko for £1.8m from Toulouse, in fact their scouts brought in 5 players from Ligue 1. So what exactly is it that our Club are looking for and how far ahead is our planning? Is our policy to look for players who are out of contract and try and get them on a freebie? We managed to find the money to bring forward the joining of Lewis Holtby and get him in the squad in good time. But if we can't afford players this window how do we still manage to find £13m to negotiate for Damião. If we had £13m that we were prepared to spend why were we waiting until the 12th hour to pick a player up whose minimum price is 8 times more than Newcastle spent on Sissoko? Why didn't we just go for Sissoko?

What exactly could we have afforded this January? How much time and effort did it cost us to negotiate for Damião? Why did we even bother if Damião was likely to break the club record that we spent on Luka Modric? Why are we going for strikers who cost too much so late into the transfer window? Why does Daniel Levy always leave it to the 12th hour to get a player? Mr Levy - what exactly is our transfer policy at this club?

Written by OyVeh Maria

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Writer: OyVeh Maria

Date:Monday February 4 2013

Time: 3:44PM

Your Comments

Save money , but have scapegoats & excuses ready like Moutinho & Leandro .Smoke & mirrors

Always backed Levy but bring back the DOF ,he`s obviously bitten off more than he can chew .Great business man & well done for keeping Spurs in condition ,but leave the footballing side to footballing people .

big cockeral

Oh, he'll do, he costs about £5

olliewebb

bC, well put.

Little spur

Asked these questions last year, still damned if I can figure out the answers.

Cleveland ARTSPURS

Here Here Big C!

olliewebb

Buy them cheap, buy them young and sell them on at a profit if you can. Buy them cheap buy them young, and if they make it we save money. Plus buy older players at bargain prices. It is all about not spending unless you need to. We do after all have a stadium and training facility to pay for. COYS

4everaspur

Any one of the inexpensive strikers out there could have been afforded on the wage front. Son, Mitroglou, Castaignos, Graham, Remy, Hooper and no doubt many more could have been signed. Is it not possible that AVB does not want any of them? Could it not be possible that he has a clear picture of who he wants. Leandro was a target. The player never wanted to come. Funny that. I wonder how much his contract just got increased by stringing us along? AVB's expression was pretty clear. We would not be in for Leandro again. The only other guy out there who, IMO, represents exactly what we need is Doumbia. Was he available? I don't know. I do however get the impression that AVB has a plan and understands the limitations that come with being the manager at Spurs. He looked right peeved on the Leandro situation and quite disappointed in the Willian transfer. He wasn't going to bring in anyone on a 4 or 5 year deal that he didn't want. He did not want to lose Sigurdsson. There was apparently a profit to be made there. He did not want to lose the player. As I said from the get go, he has had a say in all the decisions. Ade, Defoe, Dempsey are just ready-made bandaids until we get what we really want. Saha is still available. I suppose if he felt desperate, there is a solution out there. It could also have been a solution to throw Coulibaly in to the fire (or Lancaster or Coulthirst) but this is not what he has chosen and I believe none of those are in the best interests of the club or players. Adebayor will be here for the next game. Him up top of Holtby has all he elements required so long as Ade shows up. He has the talent, can he summon up the motivation? Could he get crocked? Sure. Could Dempsey also? Sure. Then it comes down to Kane or Obika r you bring in Saha. It's not like there are a lot of people out there lining up for his services. I wonder why that is? COYS

peterballb

i am so done with this "we have a training facility to pay for" myth... To my understanding Spurs owned the real estate at Chigwell and the redevelopment and sale of prime residential land in leafy hertfordshire pays for the new faciility wit change in the bank. this, therefore, is a non excuse

Cape Town Spurs

DOF has always, IMO, been the preferred route. Our last manager wanted nothing to do with it and our current one, though stating he has nothing against it, obviously came in and did not choose to have one. So here we stand. It's clear Harry had a say in all players bought for the senior squad. It is equally clear that AVB makes the same decisions. I believe Lloris, Vertonghen, Holtby, Fryers will all turn out to be quite inspired. Dembele will be a good one. Dempsey will contribute and I still hold out hope that Sigurdsson will settle and will be a very good signing. Oh well. It's our system and as AVB stated, this is all media driven and if there had been no window, we'd be where we are. What we didn't do is panic and set ourselves back by buying, just because. COYS

peterballb

Sturridge out with a hip/thigh injury, Ba out with a broken nose, JD out with ankle injury. Been a tough few days for strikers. Good news is that Kaboul expected back around 25th Feb. www.physioroom.com

Cairnside Spur

CapeTownSpurs, it is people on here that are perpetuating the myth. ENIC's statements have been clear that the training facility and the new ground will not impact on the playing side. Revenues generated by the team will be spent on te team. Revenues from our developments, to my knowledge, have been set up to look after the ongoing servicing of those debts. COYS

peterballb

Peter, throw-away statements like, "if there had been no window, we'd be where we are" (AVB's, not yours), are as absurd as they sound. Why? Because there are these windows! They exist. We are moments away from, 'they never 'ad it s good. Pheck me.

Cape Town Spurs

Never mind our transfer policy. The real problem is transfewr windows! It artificially inflates prices & wages, doesn't address the problem of agents touting their players as the thing was supposed to, it's made it worse. It does nothing to help planning the squad or assessing player recruitment due to injuries. The Arse were forced into buying Monreal last minute because of Gibb's injury whereas if the window didn't exist, they'd have had time to assess his lay off time before buying a stop gap if at all. Scrap transfer windows.

Spuds-U-Like

CapeTownSpurs, AVB does not show any such disrespect. Why is it so absurd that AVB and Levy were not willing to go outside of the plan? The whole time Jol was a manager we needed a LW and some decent MF'ers. They never came. We spent plenty and that was with a DOF. Sometimes, what is out there is not what you want. So the choice becomes, make do without or buy what you don't want. I'd say that there is always the optio to pay above the odds, but those guys are all playing for teams that need them in their sides, so they aren't going to be coming. I think this summer might be a disaster as well because Bayern apparently have 280M to spend on players and have already indicated they want Suarez and Falcao. I would certainly hope that we have guys signed the moment the next window opens as I feel that there will be a lot of top players being bought. RM, Bayern, the big Italian clubs, Chelsea and City will all be spending. It's all very inflationary. COYS

peterballb

The policy is too buy cheap, we have champagne aspirations, and a lemonade budget, and if you need to offload ask top dollar. In order to quell dissent from the natives, feed them regular helpings of bollox, particularly in transfer windows.

Frank

whatever happenned to doumbia,did anyone sign him

ghulamville

come on peterball-do you really think bayern have 250million to spend?bayern never operate like this

ghulamville

to answer this read these great articles by euanw on total tottenham, they really are a must for any spurs fan wanting to know where our chairman is coming from: http://www.totaltottenham.com/blogs/levys-transfer-strategy-part-1/ http://www.totaltottenham.com/blogs/levys-transfer-strategy-part-2/

wiltshirespur

To sign any half decent looking player who are either A) nearing the end of their contract (Pienaar, Holtby, Vertonghen, Dempsey) or B) completely unwanted by their club. Siggy, Ade, VDV

Guyver

Our transfer policy is the opposite of Tesco's adage 'pile it high, sell 'em cheap'.

lordjohnny

spot on frank says it all really.has AVB not been looking at players he likes since he left chelsea. so fed up listening to all the people making excuses for last 6 windows i stop reading certain posters. this forum is full of people who believe their opinions are actually facts, and just keep repeating themselves again and again, then abuse others who dont agree.

topspur53

Don't know what Levy is doing this time around, but he better be looking for quality signings and finalizing them way before the summer or let a professional D.O.F. do this cause we aren't gonna be lucky long enough to stay in our league position until we finalized stadium plans with his current policies. We are plain fortunate to have Bale and other cheap quality he's found, but that doesn't last for long. We need a striker, a reasonable investment that could have us being right behind Man U by now and achieve further exposure/fans/income. (apparently) It's not a big risk Levy!

dcruzer

Yeah dof worked well for us last time, I mean maybe we could have a David Bentley up front! Scouting needs to be improved beyond belief but its time for everyone to put their toys back in their prams

spurticus87

Levy wants to bring in young players develop their game a little and then sell that player on for a profit which actually means when our players are at the peak of their career they will be sold leaving us where ??????

krafty007

Quincy getting rid of Graham Carr spurticus, really did for us. Look who he's found for the barcodes! Scandalous.

Spuds-U-Like

Capetown- who mentioned the training ground before you quoted the 'myth'? It was my understanding it cost 40m but we'd double our money once the 'leafy' land has been sold....Has it been sold? Peter-you honestly believe spending 40m on a training facility and 450 debt for a stadium won't affect our transfer ability? you believe the people who tell us exactly the opposite every window? We're leveraged up to our eyeballs....come the summer we will have saved on Salaries and re-couped more outstanding transfer fees so we should be able to get a couple of decent players in....

shedboy2

ghulamville, I presume that the spending will also include monies made from player sales. I would not be shocked to see a massive change in personnel and I could certainly see them being in for Suarez and Falcao (there's 100M right there). Guardiola did not take the job to build slowly. COYS

peterballb

We have had a striker crisis for the last 3 or 4 seasons, that is if we have any genuine interest in CL qualification. So DeFoe is out injured...will we miss his flood of goals? Obviously not so anyone could play in his place and be just as non-productive on the goals front. Ah, but Ade is back this week...well if he continues the way he has started under AVB we really will not notice any change to our goal threat. Fact is Levy stuffed Harry on the striker front after our first CL qualification and has continued to do the same every window since. This "plan" that PeterB seems to know about between AVB and Levy seems to have no sense of priorities or contingency if it exists at all beyond Buy Cheap, feed the media and fans with BS regarding quality players and never reveal the true state of finances of the club. If AVB manages to obtain CL qualification with the current squad he will have exceeded realistic expectations. He is just the latest in a long line of managers to be stuffed by Levy.

Harry-Kari

I say when Kaboul is fit he should play up front in a new role. Would terrorise defenders with pace, power and a cannon shot. We have 5 CB's so throw him up top.

COYS R US

unlike all the other conjecture that has no basis whatsoever in reality or in fact, but hey, it's much easier to justif throwing mud for mud's sake. The fact that one does not like C does not mean that A+B does not =C. To listen to some. We have the worst owners in the PL. Since tat can't be backed up by numbers anyway, let's just throw a whole buch of it and hope something sticks. Some on here would seem the epitome of spoiled brats. All entitled to their opinions though as this is a forum for Spurs fans. Maybe one should just ring up Lewis and ask him to sell the club. COYS

peterballb

can anyone help , how much are spurs in debt compared to chelsea , my chelsea ininlaws is giving me an ear bashing saying that chelsea are a well balanced club and spurs are in serious debt , also any other news i can slam down his throat would be much appreciated , thanks

ledleygomez

COYS R US Bang on .Kaboul up top sounds like a man with a plan

big cockeral

The Damiao bid was always likely to fail as this guy will not go on the cheap, if he goes at all. Seems like he lacks ambition and wants to stay with Inter forever, judging by his statement today. DL will only ever be a dealer for the good bargain as he has taken risks before on big money signings that haven't worked (Bentley, Bent, GDS) but bought/sold well on Berba and Modric. Strikers are very different as the value is ALWAYS higher and they are judged if they are good or not by goals. That is far more difficult for DL to secure under his bargain/risk policy.

COYS R US

Levys transfer policy is we want something for nothing

whitehartmart

peterballb C`mon don`t take it so personal .Fans just want there club to do well & finally overtake Arsenal & maybe even Chelsea ,it`s possible .

But Spurs keep getting caught with their trousers around their ankles & not seeing that an opportunity is there for the taking .Frustration is not the word when it`s right there in front of you .Maybe we will finish 4th & many including me will be left looking pretty stupid & with egg on our faces .
How more seasons are we going to look back & say ,should have done this should have done that ? Spurs are not learning .Newcastle looked good with their extra signings ,you must consolidate your position .

Hindsight is great ,but sometimes it`s not needed .Hasn`t been needed the last 2 seasons & this one ,groundhog season .Look pretty in january then collapse & let others in .
The signs are there & Levy did not act when he should`ve .

big cockeral

To be fair to Levy he has done it right apart from the Striker we have needed for the past 3 seasons. I still believe we are one striker away from having a title challenging squad for the next 3 to 4 years.

spurspanther

Our transfer policy is well publicised for all to see clearly and has stood us in good stead in what has been steady progress the past 10 years. We all want more of course. You mention Sissoko who has played once in the prem and played well (hope he plays less well this week) he scored 1 goal in France this season and buy all accounts was average at best, clearly with Raw talent, a decent punt at 1.5 mill. He is young like Holtby who we paid 1.5 mil for in the same window.

tophobunty

Harry-Kari, while I fully get where others are coming from (and I don't lightly dismiss the thrust of the accusations), I also believe it to be possible that our coach is not going to blow his wad on players he does not want. If anything, he seems rather particular on what and who he believes will work. His comments and the fact that we did not sign any of the multitude of almost guys out there (regardless of what you, I or any other fan thinks of them or believes our needs to be) would seem to think that there is another thinking going on here. Did anything in his comments the next day seem to indicate that he was unhappy with the Chairman? Did any of his coments leading up to and throughout the window indicate that we were looking to sign players? I suppose if we all want to just assume he is lying or is nothing more than a puppet, then the issue is with the owner. Though he was not in my first 5 (maybe not even first 10) options to take over from Harry, he has done nothing but be straightforward and get results. He is clearly learning (as any manager should) and is getting the team to perform, despite all of the shortcomings and the injuries. He's coaching. Not spouting his mouth off about this player and that player and stating how glad he is that his former employer beat us, or calling fans idiots. He is doing his job, and with very little support from the fans (as I see it - too many wouldbe happy for him to fail). As I see it, he mad plays for three players we had been in for before. 1 didn't want to come (at all apparently), 1 was completely priced out of the market and we got 1. We also added Holtby who looks quite a good player with even more potential. I see the facts adding up to the opposite of what others are concluding. I don't think he is being "stuffed" by Levy. I think he recogni9zes that he will have to stay within budget and to do that he needs to choose wisely and not sign the next Keane, Defoe, Crouch and throw away the 40M he is being given on players that are just fill-ins for today with contracts that run 4 or 5 more years. Harry's comments suggest we are still paying most of Jenas' wages. We probably have to do the same with Bentley next season. Hopefully Gomes earns a new deal somewhere. Since most stated we'd be lucky to get 6th, why people aren't dancing in the streets rather than lamenting that we weren't winning the title is beyond me. I have no "information" on a "plan". The actions and statements of the parties involved indicate strongly, IMO, that there is a plan and it is not a one window plan. COYS

peterballb

tophobunty- our transfer policy has changed from re-investing player sales and adding that to the transfer budget (which saw us make steady progress) to over the past two years just re-investing most of the players sales (no additional budget)- it remains to be seen if this will result in any more progress....

shedboy2

Damiao if bought may not have become an immediate success , Would anyone have thought Torres would struggle?. Demsey Kane, Adebayor now have a chance to step up. Appart from signing Bentley our signings have improved the team, slow but steady progress.

camper

sorry off topic but can Adebayor now play on Saturday??

gazzalegend

Cant see us paying nothing towards Jenas contract. Not when QPR are paying Samba 100k a week. Harry talks alot of tripe

spurspanther

Peter- conjecture is what you are using re: AVB/Levy's relationship ....conjecture re: AVB wanting to stay within 'budget'....see we all do it...

shedboy2

gazzalegend- in Theory yes....

shedboy2

spurspanther- so how much do you think we're paying towards Jenas' wages?

shedboy2

BigC, fans may want to overtake Arsenal and Chelsea. The latter is impossible on the wage or transfer fee scale, but was done last season in the table. The former will require us to achieve more with less. That's what we are trying to do. I am not the one making comments about other people's opinions. The fact I disagree and am willing to so state makes me a target. Nothing new. I will change my opinion when I see that the facts no longer support what I am saying. There is not a shred of evidence that what others are foisting on the masses is at all correct. Harry never said this. Jol never said this. Ramos never complained that he didn't get the players he wanted. AVB has not either. You can't make Leandro come. You can't make Shakhtar accept a reasonable amount when someone else is willing to pay OTT. We can go toe to toe with Fergie and Liverpool and win some battles for the hearts and minds of some players. This is not groundhog day because it is a new manager with a new plan. Until he has culled the unwanted and brought in what he wants, I will not judge his transfer policy. All the disgruntled are gone. Most of the dead wood too. He has put Gomes in a spot to hopefully entice him in to a move. bentley, we will have to pay someone to take him on just as we did with Jenas. I still expect all of that will be accomplished within his first three windows. Since 2008-2009 revenues have gone from 113M to 144M last year with a top of 163M in the CL season. Salaries were 60M i 2008-2009, 67M 2009-2010 and then 91M in 2010-2011. Last year's sum has not yet been released but I'll be surprised if it went anywhere but north of 100M. I can only imagine as salaries will have again increased as all of Sigurdsson, Dempsey, Dembele, Lloris, Ade, Holtby, Vertonghen are al on serious salaries and the contracts of Bale, Defoe, Lennon and Walker were all increased. So, just an educated guess but Revenues of 150M or so and wages (which should be at 70% tops) of 110-120M. I'll let others do the math. I expect a small loss this season from the team side of things. We also spent 5M more than we sold, so it will not be a modest loss. Next year will be better (regardless of CL) as we will finally have the dead wood gone and there is another 20M in TV revenues. CL could add another 20-30M assuming we get in to the group stages. That buys a couple of quality players. That's it.

We will not wind up with egg on our faces because, other than Everton, we are competing with 4 teams for 2 places who have vastly superior resources to us. That it will be annoying to again be pipped by Chelsea or Arsenal, they are the ones who would be embarrassed by us pipping them. Not the other way round. They have the resources, we do not. COYS

peterballb

Sweet FA, so called we even got a very small fee for him. Levy would not pay his wages while QPR are splashing the cash.

spurspanther

shedboy, how is it conjecture that our club runs a small profit or loss every year since ENIC have been running the club. Tha is fact. It is also fact that every year but one (last year) we have spent more in the transfer window than we have sold. Again, fact. Levy, in his statement stated that we remain in complince with FFPR. Fact. Leandro has stated he did not want to come. Fact. Willian went for monies we would not spend. OK there I am going by what AVB said directly and by the history of ENIC. I'll call that one highly probable. I think if you listen to AVB's interview, it seems that the facts I have relied upon are backed up by his statements. That you and others (pperhaps even me) don't like it does not make it any less so. COYS

peterballb

yes shedboy our transfer policy is in the public domain and as you quite rightly point out is in line with all other industries in the severe economic down turn, there is shrinkage on budget as with most other clubs apart from those in a semi desperate situation and all other industries. Football can no longer be immune.

tophobunty

spurspanther, I think it likely that we paid off Jenas and he, like with Crouch, accepted lower wages on an 18 month deal, because our "payoff" compensates him for what he was to lose. COYS

peterballb

shedboy, when you are right, you are right. We do not invest heavily in the club beyond what is generated from sales like we used to. But then we now spend 70% of revenues on wages where we used to spend 50%. Again fact supported by audited figures (ok, granted some speculation as to this year's numbers)COYS

peterballb

do we not have any other photos of Levy? and nude ones?

tophobunty

We all know what the transfer policy is, why ask? Such nievity. Nothing is happening until you hear about it in the media, and the laughable thing is you believe that. Business is way over your head isn't it.

Med1

I said we should have bought Balotelli when we had the chance. .... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9846595/Mario-Balotelli-scores-twice-on-his-AC-Milan-debut-but-flies-into-storm-with-a-controversial-penalty-decision.html

chrishove123

Med1. well said

tophobunty

You know what? I think everyone should just lighten up spark a blunt kick back and listen to THIS. ................................................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Acy8Z9jkw

chrishove123

Can someone answer a question on transfers. How many clubs in the premier league have spent less than money on new players than what they have brought in. My guess is not many. So we can throw that debate away. Surely every club has a yearly budget and then player sales on top. The owners have not spent much money for ages now. My guess is if we were the wrong end of the table they would find money for new signings but the last two seasons when we need a players brought in they have not given us much in. The next transfer window will be made up of money from the Bale sale. I think we have gone backwards this season. We have tighten up at the back but have played with 6 midfield players. We really have struggled breaking teams down and the less said about our lack of strike force the better. When it blows up again this season then the owners should get used to criticism coming at them. Levy holds onto the pulse strings too tight. We need a DOF who will have no problem spending the money he is given each season. What qualifies Levy to pick and chose players anyway. He is a business man, simple.

nothappyharry

For Levy the transfer window is story time. He makes up a load of hard luck, near miss, last second bollox to appease the gullible and stupid Spurs fans that haven't worked out that this is the same pattern we've experienced for numerous windows now. He must thank his lucky stars that there are still a few Spurs fan silly enough to believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. He is a land developer and we are an inconvenient stain on his real estate development plans. The aim is to keep us in Europe but out of the CL as that is too expensive and puts him under unnecessary pressure to strengthen the playing squad and increase salaries. He also manages to find myriad excuses to keep putting off actually building our much promised new stadium. There is no way they want to invest £450m but they do want to be able to sell the potential to build a new stadium to the next owners. That's why everything is in place and ready to go but there is always a reason why we can't actually start the work. Levy is a master of bull ****. It's about time some opened their eyes and faced facts.

SpuriousLife

nothappyharry, I suspect as any DOF would still have to spend within the realms of revenues. As we make a nominal profit or loss every year, there really is no more room unless what is being advocated is that we spend beyond our means. If that's what people want, that's easy. Our owners won't do it, but Southampton, QPR, Villa and othershave all done that. Shouldn't leave out Chel;sea and City but they do have huge revenues too, so it is not quite as absurd as Fernandez having a net spend in one year equivalent to 10% of his net worth (not including wages). Comolli, like him or not, spent large but still remained within our revenues. It's just in those days our wages were nowhere near what they are today as a percentage of overall revenues. What was Levy doing by increasing the wages of Bale, Walker, Lennon and Defoe in the summer if not protecting our assets? This all costs money. I'll bet Bale's wages have trebled over the past 5 years. COYS

peterballb

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html

shedboy2

SpuriousLife, even if I presume that Lev could not give a rat's butt about Spurs, I find it incongruent that he would not want to have us in CL. It garners more money from sponsors etc. He could always just not spend at all. Massive net gain last year in the transfermarket (though net loss overall if anyone cares). He could have done the same this season. We could still have been competitive and perhaps qualified for Europe. No need for a fancy manager. Hughton was available. He would not have cost what AVB did. No need really to buy any of the guys we did. There were cheaper, less good options out there. Surely didn't need to up the wages of Bale, Modric, Defoe, Lennon. I know and understand that people are unhappy that we didn't get a striker. I, having watched him the past 2 seasons in Brazil, am unhappy Leandro does not want to come. But to try and suggest that Levy's 29% share in ENIC is not worth more with a stadium and with us in CL makes no sense at all. Wouldn't he do everything to maximize his gains? If it were my "asset" and all I were trying to do is get the most back for my return, I'd want to be selling a CL club with a brand new stadium and a balance sheet and playing squad that is competitive. That's just me though. COYS

peterballb

Peterballb - all he's doing is making sure we stay at a simmer but never actually get to the boil. That way he saves money each year he has his shares but can sell the 'potential' we have for top dollar when he finally decides to sell. His whole job is based on that - keep us close to being great but not quite great because great is high maintenance and expensive. Great is good to sell but unnecessarily expensive to maintain.

SpuriousLife

shedboy, that's all well and good, but it does not include all of the transfers. You have a source, I use another one. I prefer Transfermarkt because it is more complete. Either way, we spend more or less what is coming in and, at year's end, revenues equal expenditures, again, more or less. Your numbers show the same regardless of which side they nominally come out on. There are no huge profits, no huge debts shown in any of the numbers for this year. We spent what we brought in while increasing salaries. COYS

peterballb

SpuriousLife, I think that's pretty cynical and does not maximize profits. Having CL, if you live within your means, makes the club more valuable, thus his 29% more valuable. Once the stadium is in play, the club will be worth well over a billion GBP. If we are in CL yearly, the club will be worth a billion before the stadium opens. Either way, he is the choice of Lewis and I do not see that changing because both of them stand to gain huge. I just don't take AVB as being a stupid man and he would certainly have to be about as sharp as a spoon to not know the limitation within which Spurs are governed. Time will tell. Levy didn't need to up Bale's wages to get what he would want for him in the market. Lots of interest out there. COYS

peterballb

PeterB, the bottom line (which you love to quote) is that money has been available to buy what we need but we haven't for at least the last 4 seasons. If you take your scenario of AVB saying to Levy "No, I don't want player x,y,or z" this sounds the same as fans were accusing Harry of doing. Is it the manager turning down red-hot prospects from our own deluded DOF/Chairman or is it the DOF/Chairman offering poor players to the manager and him having to reject them? If AVB really thinks by doing that that Levy will store the money in a piggy-bank until there is £20-30 million to spend on a quality player he will be very disappointed. The only difference between Harry's time and AVB's is that AVB pays more attention to detail and has achieved good results with an average squad containing maybe 2 world-class players at best (Bale and LLoris) some good ones (Lennon, Vertonghen, Sandro) and the rest average at best. The common theme between the 2 eras is Levy and his inability to buy the right players at the right time.

Harry-Kari

Nice article here saying all isn't lost http://spurs.theoffside.com/team-news/reasons-to-be-cheerful.html? It also contains a great truism "From those deluded enough to think Daniel Levy is infallible, to those paranoid enough to think he deliberately wants us to fail, and all those inbetween; we are of a like mind broadly speaking. Everyone is a supporter, whatever their viewpoint."

In-spurs-ational

SpuriousLife, I believe I owe a tenner to the charity of your choice

In-spurs-ational

In-spurs give it to your own charity. It was a bet I wanted desperately to lose! I'm sure we'll be OK because we have the best fans in the league. COYS.

SpuriousLife

SpuriousLife, thanks for that. Every little bit helps.

In-spurs-ational

Hrri-Kari, which money is that? I am not being smart here. There have not been any considerable net profits or losses for some time. Yes, we could take on a larger loss, to be sure, but that is not the way ENIC run. I believe like every club, we operate from a list. There are guys you would like compiled by the scouts and vetted by the coach. Then it becomes Levy's job to try to do the dea. I don't really see Levy as being the guy doing the identifying of talent. I'm sure he gets called by other Chairmen and puts any proposals, suggestions to AVB, as I presume he would have done to Harry, and Juande and Martin. Harry said that the chairman came to him with the VDV deal. Presumably we had interest but the price was at issue. RM knew this and called when they decided whatever we could/would offer was the best they could do. Suarez, Harry himself said that our scouts thought he was too similar to VDV. Clearly another guy on the list. We passed. Leandro we wanted and did not get. Seems he did not want to come (now there are again rumopurs that it was the third party ownership that was at issue). I'll read between the lines of what AVB said and didn't say and add to it what Leandro is saying and conclude that he didn't want to come. The conditions were not right. No we will not be back in for him. I do recall that Aguero and Rossi both got pay increases as a result of our "interest". Were we being strung along by agents? Was Levy a dupe? Would they have been on our list? The first two, I don't know. They would have been on any club's list so I presume they were on ours. I am just glad we are not discussing what we will be doing with Forlan and Neville for three more years. Levy is not infallible. Many decisions he has made have not sat well with me. On the balance though, he has, IMO, done very well for our club. When was the last time we were in Europe 6 years out of 7? COYS

peterballb

Harry-Kari our Squad is much better then average. We are one striker away from having our best squad in years. Lloris, Walker, Kaboul, Verts Esso, Dembele, Sandro, Lennon, Holtby, Bale and the mystery striker. Team 2. Friedel, Naughton, Dawson, Caulker, Fryers, Parker, Hudd, Townsend, gylfi, Dempsey, Ade. Also Gallas, Livermore and Defoe. Not to many teams in world football have better squads

spurspanther

Not much point in continuing this two bald men fighting over a comb argument. More interestingly, someone needs a slap on the back for Holtby's signing. He looks very sharp, and puts me in mind a little of Barmby N. when he first played for us, and before he went all home sick for oop north, and his career subsequently went over a cliff. Anyone agree?

lordjohnny

LJ, that's probably a fair assessment. I look at him as an energized VDV. His shot the other day was anything but shy. The keeper was not catching that one. I think he is going to be sme player. We need more of that from all of our players. With that level of effort, there's no way we lose to Leeds or draw at QPR or Norwich. I wish I could say we outhustled teams every week. Nothing wrong with letting the ball do the work when in possession but when the other team has the ball you have to exceed their work rate. COYS

peterballb

Peterballb love your one man stand for sanity, just hope you have a good therapist, the amount of>>>"I wan't someone to blaim and logic be damned" is at times, mindboggling. So instead of that should we be talking about the need for a D.O.F. again and maybe someone can supply an inside idea of just how our scouting, (or lack of it) actually works? I mean do we even have any?

Underspur

underspur, I think our scouting is working fine and the Spurs non-senior players all seem to be doing rather well at all ther levels. Holtby, Fryers were brought in. They both have huge potential. Pritchard, McEvoy, Smith, Luongo. There are lots of players that look like they will be part of the discussion. 5 years ago, there was not much in the system that was not getting a run in the big team. I think we have come a long way. Timewill tell. Really glad we came to terms with Pritchard though. COYS

peterballb

Peterb-Immediately after he came on against West Brom the tempo suddenly changed. His sort of hustling is, I think, infectious, as it prompts others to close down players. Much in the same way Parker had that effect when he joined. Looks a really good signing already. I'd play the same team against Newcastle, with Holtby replacing Defoe, and have Adebayor on the bench. Just hope they practice set pieces. We must be the worst, especially at corners. 17 on Sunday, and nothing from them. What do they do on the training ground? They need to study Hart at Reading about how to deliver a decent dead ball.

lordjohnny

Can't believe we are so inept at set pieces. I blamed Rednkapp's regime but we are every bit as bad under the current.

ItalianYiddo

Peter, your argument is only valid for the building of AVB's eventual squad but fails to address the need to remedy current squad shortfalls - which is what the Jan window was designed to allow clubs to do - get in that one or two players that was required because of unforeseen circumstances, injury or otherwise. IMO, that is where we were failed - we needed a 'band aid' striker simply because it wasn't worth the risk to attempt to see out the season hoping our two recognised strikers avoid injury. Good article, OyVeh!

Durbanspur

peterballb, agree on our reluctance to pressurise the opposition. I'm surprised that AVB hasn't instilled it into the team, look at Barca, they keep the ball most of the time but the minute they lose it they don't give the opposition a second to breathe.

ItalianYiddo

I see Holtby as another Ballack - complete midfielder. He is not a finished product, he can become as good as Ballack.

sydqcb5

ItalianYiddo, dont agree. From last season to this season we are hustling teams more to get the ball back. Likes of Lennon has improved in that dept. We have improved our possession from last season due to this reason. We dont carry any more passengers like VDV ,when we loose the ball.

sydqcb5

For a bean counter I would say that Levy is quite good as a DOF. If you believe that he's the one who identifies and buy the players, he must know more about football than most of us. Verthongen,Lloris, Dembele,Dempsey and Siggy in the summer, and now Holtby and Fryers. Not bad. So we didn't sign a striker? Levy out! It has nothing to do with AVB and his targets? Of course not. We all know who AVB want's or so we think: Moutinho,Villian and Leandro. Well, that's not rocket science, we all want them. So AVB couldn't get any of them, blame Levy again. Nothing to do with overpriced players who don't want to come in the first place, bar Moutinho. If AVB want's a player who will cost 10-15 million, Levy will pay and if AVB really wanted a striker, he could have sold Siggy, Hudd and Bentley for 10-15 million. 1 player on a high wage instead of 3. (I know that Bentley was going to QPR but Harry said no.)

dannylane

imust admit it holtby looks nice and lively,just want dembele to play with the same level of intensity

ghulamville

sydqcb5, not enough for my liking. Admittedly the likes of QPR, Norwich and Leeds had no choice but to implement a game plan that stopped us from playing but if we matched their desire our superior technical ability would eventually have won those games.

ItalianYiddo

We needed to sign a forward, that much is obvious, and Levy must take the blame for that. However, I gotta agree with a lot of what Peter is saying. The fact is, we've never had it so good in the Premiership as we have under Enic. Or have we forgotten the dark days of perennial mediocrity that was mid table and below. I also agree that the lad Holtby looks a gem. Bale up front, Clint supporting and Holtby slotting in on the left looks like a good option until a hopefully resurgent Ade returns. COYS

SpursEagle

Oh and WiltshireSpur. That was an excellent 2 part piece dissecting the possible motives behind Levy's transfer policy. Thanks for the links dude

SpursEagle

Looking at the poll on the right, everyone except Dempsey seem to be getting sympathy votes for MOTM.

Madaboutspurs

Syd agree with what you are saying, but I do see Dempsey as a passenger, he contributes so little he is in danger of filling that passenger role. AVB needs to realise this from NOW TODAY...and drop the guy, he should be an absolute last resort for us, he is not good enough, too slow, slows us down, contributes little to winning the ball back and does not suit our style of play. The style you highlight so well.

tophobunty

Why ask this forum when absolutely no one on here can answer your questions with any real informed background. None of us know. And even the ITK's really did not have a clue either. Next!

jvd

OVM I will go one step further answer suggest that the intent of this article is to stir up anger and hostility and negativity towards the management of the club more so than is already rampant. Rather you should be trying to build a sense of positivity which will help our players to focus on the job ahead. We don't need this continued sense of doom when we are 1 point off of 3rd place with 13 games to go. Good grief!

jvd

Well said JVD !!!

tophobunty

jvd, good post. Let's all get behind the players and AVB (+don't forget the jumping German Stefan Freund, lol) and hope we end 3rd at the end of the campaign. COME ON YOU SPURS & WIN WIN WIN!!

Madaboutspurs

Either one of tophobunty or jvd must have just given Dempsey his sympathy vote :-)

Madaboutspurs

Dempsey has a mother Madabout

tophobunty

glum do you fancy Holtby?

tophobunty

lordjohnny excellent comparison between Holtby & a young Barmby. Barmby was an excellent player for club & country for a good 4 seasons, small but an absolute engine and a classy player to boot. Love the way Holtby seems to cover every blade of grass yet is seemingly an attacking midfielder.

HuddersfieldYiddo

As for strikers i would love to see us go for Jackson Martinez before his stock rises too much, he has a higher strike rate than Falcao did at Porto and he's tearing the league apart.

HuddersfieldYiddo

Jackson Martinez and James Rodriguez!!!!! I'm out of my mind.

dcruzer

peterballb, An urgent re post required here from the recent Appeasing the fans article that I wrote to you... "peterballb, Please tell us your on an Enic wage! You have to be paid an employer of Enic corporation. Its either that are your not a well person. I mean who would come on this site and repeatedly write scores of posts a day, (on behalf of 2 men who are worth a combined 4.5 billion fortune) telling your fellow COYS fans that the current owners who have the worst trophy per season percentage of any owners of the club in over half a century, who have only reached the Champions Once in 13 seasons, (courtesy of the coach you detest the most), who have won only 1 trophy (the b team cup) in 12 years, and have failed to reach a single FA Cup final in 13 seasons despite being the richest owners in the clubs history, who have failed to even start building the stadium they promised their customers 13 long years ago, are doing such a marvelous job. How much are you being paid to write this crap? You kind of expose yourself when you write... " We will not pay over the odds though." We Peter??? Paid Enic apologist or what? Please tell us you a paid employer of the of the Enic corporation pete, or get yourself off quickly to a corporation shrink"...

pelebro

peterballb, so what's up Pete?

pelebro

The lack of any decent Striker purchase will cost us I feel. This season Goal Difference will be the difference between 3rd and 6th place in the final standings. Yes there is always a problem buying big in the January Window, but we are very lightweight upfront plus neither of our first choice strikers are hardly setting the world alight with their performances. Defoe has slipped back into his usual complacency when he does not have to look over his shoulder and fight for his place in the team. Ade is just Ade.........one good season followed by a mediocre second season!! Thank god he was cheap by todays prices!! lol COYS

WestStandEnclosure

So, if you're not against Levy/ENIC, your a sick person. What a

of a statement. Ditto an earlier one that implies only real Spurs fans go to matches.

Spuds-U-Like

Damn! The dickhead emoticon is now unavailable.

Spuds-U-Like

What AVBs comments and Leandro's comments suggest to me is that the two were talking throughout the january window and I think AVB feels let down by leandro. Perhaps the player made assurances that he would be happy to come and later pulled out, i don't know, but AVB clearly feels aggrieved and not I think by levy or spurs. In any case, the question becomes if AVB cannot get the players that he wants now, is it better to stick with adebayor, dempsey and the option of bale, rather than use up valuable finances on bringing in a short term stop gap on a few year contract. clearly AVB chose to stick, certainly the club would have brought in a striker just for the sake of it if he insisted they need cover, but when we are still struggling to remove the dead wood players it is hardly a good time to be adding to them

Guernman

Too right Guernman. Too much dead wood already. Mind you, I do think a loan would've been a good idea & Odemwingie might not have been a bad shout considering his situation, a win/win for both clubs.

Spuds-U-Like

jvd ITKs don't make me laugh, more like IDKs or NITKs I don't knows. Who was it that PROMISED 100% we'd have a portugese signing by the end of this window because they know personally a so called ITK who has the era of our illustrious owner and has known him since before he made his millions. What a crock of $̱hite, someone on here has delusions of grandeur or lives in a Walter Mitty world of make believe.

chrishove123

The more (or at least, equally) immediate question we are entitled to ask is what exactly is our scouting policy? And do we actually have an active one? And the arguments saying our scouting policies resulted in Holtby and Fryers signing are absolute rot. Holtby is/was one of the brightest stars in an extremely German squad, and was on the radar of many of the top clubs in Europe. That we got him was a major coup, and I couldn't have been more delighted, but it wasn't the result of our scouts unearthing an unknown gem. Likewise Fryers. His history is well documented, and it now seems very likely this deal was unofficially agreed by us and him last year. Once again, a good little deal that I'm pleased with. Not least because it sticks two fingers up at holier than thou Ferguson and his own reprehensible transfer dealings. But once again, this is NOT our scouts going out and hunting down fresh raw talent. Where's our Hernandez? Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!

LilyWhiteHart

*extremely TALENTED German squad*.......I never meant to imply that the current Germany squad is any more or less Germanic than the last haha!!!

LilyWhiteHart

Spuds-U-Like, you write "So, if you're not against Levy/ENIC, your a sick person." I never said that! I was directing my post directly to peter! What I quite clearly said is that anyone who is not a paid employer of the Enic PR department, who would come on this site (daily) spending hundreds of hours of their life defending THFC board members, (who's personal wealth totals over 5 billion) by patrolling the site and trying to marshal and counter the opinions of the many REAL Spurs fans who have totally sussed out the football mercenary Joe Lewis, (now at his sixth professional club) with pathetic stats and lies, that do nothing to counter the glaring truth, which is that the multi billionaire Enic mob have failed to deliver both on the pitch (1 League Cup in 12 seasons, no FA Cup final in 13 seasons, only 1 CL experience in 13 seasons) and off the pitch, no New stadium they promised 13 seasons ago, (35,000 Spurs fans, sitting waiting on Danny Boy's season ticket waiting list) no Nike or Adidas in 13 years, which equals tiny merchandising sales in comparison with Arsenal or Chelsea and little or no global exposure, has to be not a very well person... I mean would anyone want to work FULL TIME for Daniel Levy without getting paid, writing hundreds of long posts, a week defending the current owners of OUR club, who have such an appalling record both on and off the pitch??? Total respect to you peter if you on a Enic salary! Very sad if you not... Perhaps you could could clarify Peter???

pelebro

Yes you did pelebro, doesn't matter which individual it's directed at, the inference is that it applies to all with the same view.

That's your trouble, you fire off sweeping statements at & about people without thinking because you're totally blinkered in your opinion & have a single issue crusade. You won't tolerate anybody with the opposing view, but instead of countering with rational argument, you resort to personal derision & then wonder why you get clog for it!

You not only hate the current regime, you also seem to have it in for Sugar & Scholar too, that's every regime since 1982 FFS! Has there been anyone in charge at Spurs you HAVE liked? Either you're a kid just flailing around with nothing better to say, or you're a bitter old man hankering to bring back the days of Sidney Wale & Billy Nick.

You need to think before you post fella.

Spuds-U-Like

Spuds-U-Like, You write... You not only hate the current regime, you also seem to have it in for Sugar & Scholar too, that's every regime since 1982 FFS! Has there been anyone in charge at Spurs you HAVE liked?" First off, I don't have it in for Scholar. He brought the club a EUFA Cup and an FA Cup. He took THFC to It's last FA Cup final in 1991, which we won, so how can I have it in for him? But, the 2 major mistakes he made when at the club, were firstly was to rub Burkinshaw up the wrong way, by buying players behind his back. Yes the purchase of one Gary Stevens by Scholar without Keith's approval lost us a wonderful coach. "There used to be a football club back there" was Burkinshaw's parting words as he walked away minutes after winning the club it's last European trophy... And he was correct!!! The second and most terrible mistake Scholar made, was not to put the club on the open market and sale to the most suitable bidder. Instead an inside job happened! Tel boy became aware of Scholars personal financial problems, and planned an inside job, which he pulled off by using Sugars cash. Sugar then shafted Venables and got the club on the cheap! And the rest is history... Since 1991 when Spurs last reached the FA Cup final, the club has failed to reach the final of any foreign or domestic Cup competition final other than the Mickey Mouse Cup. That's 21 seasons of Sugar and Enic underachievement in Cup Tournaments. And in 21 seasons since Sugar and Enic came on the scene the club has only been in the Champions League on one occasion. The club got poisoned when Scholar stupidly sold THFC to Alan Sugar, a man who made his fortune by selling crap electrical products. Sugar than sold the club onto his mate Joe Lewis, so that he could keep a stake in the club until he walked away with a 75 million backhander, and Lewis is now planning to walk away with a much bigger pay off than that. Meanwhile Danny boy Levy is on a huge salary to play Fantasy Football with our club until Mr football mercenary Joe Lewis find the right bidder and walks away... Its that simple! This is the truth!!! The only debate remaining, is will Lewis build the Enic Dome before he sales his 6th professional football club???

pelebro

Meanwhile 35,000 die hard Spurs fans on Danny Boy's season ticket waiting list, wait.............................................................?

pelebro

To Dare to do.......rather than TO Dare IS to do....in levys' case, Unfortunatley.

82spursdebut

Spuds you make some good points mate

tophobunty

Mr Levy has big egg on his face. I don't understand this last minute cobblas either. The pressure is on the buyer not the seller.

SPUDMAN

You have got a couple of your "facts" totally wrong pelebro.

1. As a PLC, Scholar & Bobroff's shares were always on the open market. Sugar was approached by Venables to put up £3m each to buy Spurs. Several consortiums were already interested before Sugar was approached & Robert Maxwell tried to hi-jack the deal on the day of completion, but neither he or any of the other consortiums previously, had the money available to buy Scholar & Bobroff out. On the day of completion, Venables didn't have the money either & it took a further 10 days for him to get it & when he had, it wasn't his money anyway. So it never was "an inside job".

2. Sugar put in a further £8m into the club, Venables nothing. Sugar didn't shaft Venables & "get the club on the cheap". The club was a PLC & Venables was a business incompetent who's other businesses were bankrupt & because of his huge debts, he was forced to sell his shares in Spurs on the open market. Sugar didn't buy any of them. Spurs was still a PLC when he sold his shares to ENIC in 2001, he held 43% of the shares at the time, Levy as co owner of ENIC, bought 29.9% of them leaving Sugar with 13%. Levy took over as Chairman. Sugar's 13% was finally bought out by ENIC in 2007. Spurs ceased to be a PLC in January last year.

If you're going to give me a history lesson, I suggest you check your facts first. You've been totally seduced by the Venables myth. And stop punctuating your posts with forests of exclamation marks, it looks stupid.

Spuds-U-Like

BTW pelebro, Sugar received a total of £47m from ENIC for his shares, not a "£75m back hander". Your ignorance is breathtaking.

Spuds-U-Like

Our transfer policy at Spurs is an open and not secret policy: Buy low, sell high. There, you have it.

Total knobhead

It's not in my nature to get myself stuck into other peoples disagreements or arguments, but more than one person has brought up some points that I've been going over in my mind for the last few weeks. Spuds, you've successfully argued that you're more knowledgeable about the recent history of our club in purely business/financial terms than myself. So I'm not even going to challenge you on that. But what are your personal opinions on the footballing policies of the current regime. About its net investment in the team and squad over the years? About its failure to deliver on promises of success both at home and in Europe. About only one season in Europes elite competetion in all its years of stewardship. About despite the unimaginable wealth of our owners, our overly stubborn stance on both the purchase and sale of players? About Lewiss' past dealings with football clubs, and why we should expect to be treated any differently? I'm not asking for crystal clear facts on any of these points, because an awful lot of of them can only be referenced by (at best, educated) guesses and/or hearsay/papertalk. I'm asking for your opinion mate. How do you think Enic are running our club? Do you believe they have the clubs best interest at heart? And are you confident about our immediate and long term future under them? Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!

LilyWhiteHart

A reasoned & reasonable question LilyWhiteHart. My own perspective can be summed as "could do better". What Levy & ENIC have done so far has been not bad overall in my opinion, but they've definately not performed as well as they could have. Sometimes they haven't been brave enough in managerial appointments or player aquisition & other times performed brilliantly when it was needed. Quincey in '08 & Rafa just 2 examples of brilliant work by them. Unfortunately they've also acted abysmally, their treatment of Jol being one of the nastiest & Ramos being a complete disaster apart from our only trophy since '91. The promise of a new stadium, whilst a difficult project, should've been on stream by now or at least nearer to completion than it is.

Personally, I'm happy with the progress we're making, albeit slowly, just as long as it continues & consolidates in the next year or so. I think it's reasonable to argue that 21 years has been too long to have built the club to where it is today, we could've been there about 6 or 7 years ago, maybe more with a bit more adventure.

If you want to throw an accusation at ENIC, it's that they've played it too safe.

Spuds-U-Like

LilyWhiteHeart, I will not presume to speak for Spuds. Let me just say that the numbers speak to the fact that we live within our means. The owner has never shown a desire to reach in to his pocket to pull out any amount that would represent debt. Tony Fernandez he is not. The "failing" some talk about on here is how he operates. There isn't extra money because it is all invested. I would be right ticked off if they were taking revenues and not spending them on the team, but the numbers show they are (nominal profit or nominal loss everyyear). Where I differ from most is I don't expect ENIC to act differently than they always have. If Willian or Leandro could have been had, we would have spent. But certainly not at the amounts that were on offer. We have been in Europe 6 of the last 7 seasons after being nowhere near it for some time. That is progress. Sure, it would be nice for it to be CL, but then there are 6 teams, including us in that fight, only four spots and we have the lowest yearly revenues, thus the lowest buying/paying power of the bunch. IMO, had a squad good enough for CL all of the past three years. Jol almost pulled itt off the one year with a squad nowhere near CL quality. Bottom line is, ENIC own the team. This is how they do business. The value of the club continues to increase and they have the planning permission for the stadium. I do not expect a sale until after the stadium is up and running, if even then. At that point their 100M or so investment will be worth over 1B. Not bad business in 2 decades. Can we get CL this season? I believe we could finish anywhere from 3rd to 7th. Levy, contrary to what gets posted on here all the time, does not scout players. His job is to try to get those difficult deals done. THat it all has to happen within "Spurs parameters" is our reality. I just accept that and do not expect Lewis and Levy to change their spots/stripes (whichever animal you prefer). That we did not get a striker is down to Leandro not being doable and AVB not wanting a player just for the sake of it. IMO. There is no proof, though what has happened and been said seems to support that theory more than one where it's all smoke and mirrors to make us stupid fans think that we are trying. COYS

peterballb

You might not speak for me peter, but you certainly echo a lot of what I think mate.

Spuds-U-Like

And it totally p1$$es me off when "other" posters think we're mentally deranged, not real fans or must be on the payroll because of it. If only they would put their points across sensibly without resorting to ridicule & personal abuse.

Feck it, why should I care what they think of me.

Spuds-U-Like

Cheers Spuds and Peter. Very full and thorough posts, no doubt splitting opinions right down the middle in the process haha!!! As I've said previously, I'm more dismayed by some of my fellow supporters than I am our management or owners. Basically if you rewind 12 months and replace Harry with Enic/Levy/Lewis then there seems to be a determination with some to create the old anti-Harry/pro-Harry argument and factions. As things stand, 4th position is above what I expected at the start of the season. Personally, I was incredibly pleased with both the departure of Redknapp, and the arrival of AVB. I would argue that finishing 4th or even possibly above that this season could be seen as a minor miracle, even before Defoes injury left us with one available premier league striker. I like the signings of Fryers, and even moreso Holtby, who as I've said elsewhere, I believe will prove to be a major coup if not next season then possibly as early as this one. I will cling to the faith that AVB has his targets, and that they will be more agressively pursued in the summer given the fact that he's no longer a newcomer at the Lane and will hopefully have a bigger say and a more open ear to say it to. And if at that point it DOESN'T happen, then it would very much appear that we are hamstringing our bright new manager. Which would be disappointing on so many levels, as I believe AVB could very well prove to be our most shrewd acquisition in any capacity of recent times. Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!

LilyWhiteHart

Also Spuds, I couldnt agree with you more re: the boards treatment of Martin Jol. That was, and still remains, the only time I have felt shame in over 35 years of supporting my club. Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!

LilyWhiteHart

Pretty much spot on there , peter......but i do have a bit of a gripe with Mr. Levy / Enic. Firstly, for wasteing so much time on the olympic stadium venture. THFC...should be where THFC...is now, and forever more. Plus...i didn't like the way he sold the new stadium idea on false dates...ie..completion for 2012/13...but i understand the delays.

82spursdebut

Cheers LilyWhiteHart, but to be fair to Levy, the Jol situation was mostly down to that fat snake Kemsley IMO. Ramos was Kemsley's choice & he gained enough support on the board to force it through & that's why, I don't actually know but I do believe, Kemsley "agreed to leave the club" when Quincey was bought in. Levy's mistake was to be taken in by it just like Sugar made the mistake of being taken in by Venables.

I have to agree with you, it DOES seem as though there are some determined to split the fans into factions & I also know there are some on here who deliberately wind people up just to get a reaction.

Spuds-U-Like

82spursdebut, it was that same waste of time that got the Ciy of London, Borough of Haringey, Transport, Security and Heritage to all work with us towards a deal. We are now going to get some contribution instead of none, which, IMO, is only fair given that we have reduced our desired stadium size to accommodate their concerns/needs etc. I think they always wanted to begin earlier, but planning permission was only granted a year ago or so, so short of going it alone and agreeing with all of the limitations imposed by others, we had to wait. I always questioned where funding for a 400M project would come from when Spurs was only valued at about 100M a decade or so ago. If ENIC can do the training ground and the stadium without taking any money out of the club revenues, I'll be tickled pink. That will allow us to continue to build without sacrificing on the pitch. Finishing in the CL this season, especially if it is again at the expense of Liverpool and at the expense of Arsenal will not only help us with revenues, but will, more importantly IMO, hurt them. COYS

peterballb

Spuds, I would suggest that the dismissals of both Jol and Ramos were done in a very unprofessional manner. I remember hearing that Harry was being spoken to after the 6th game. Jol's firing was public knwledge while he was still in the rocess of managing a game. It was all very, very poor and reflected awful on the club and in particular, on Levy, who is the ultimate face for ENIC. Anyway, hopefully lessons learned that will not be repeated. Since players were brought in that Jol did not want, I have not heard one manager of Spurs comlain that they didn't want players that were being bought. If it had happened to Harry, methinks we'd have heard about it. COYS

peterballb

Well, sorry peter....but it's just plain wrong to publish photos of the new stadium and completion dates of 2012 /13.....to my 11 year old son ...plus ask for monies, up front, to go on waiting lists, based on those dates. These people are multimillionaires / billionaires. They can move mountains, when they want. Yes, he Mr. Levy played a good bluff game with the local authorities and Londons mayor, to squeeze a few bob out of them. BUT...£40mill'...or so.....is a drop in the ocean...to these people. I'll have my gripe...over the 4 to 5 year delay....and the gripe at the few bits i mentioned. I expect Enic to deliver....but they mustn't expect my son to still be a spurs fan, if he cannot get into the stadium and see top level strikers. Thus, they need to keep up the family friendly events and delay no longer.

82spursdebut

We, live under the shadow of arse' fans....and i know that i've taken a gutfull from them over the years. Hope my son doesn't have to. I know he is wavering. I settled on spurs, at age 12 /13(helped by Ossie and Ricky) .The schoolyard is a tricky place...when it's 2 to 1 against.

82spursdebut

82spursdebut, but just like the striker issue, you are presuming a situation where the owner, ENIC, are willing to take the money out of their own pockets. I hear what you are saying. I never believed that it would happen when they first said, because it was optimistic at best. 40M is a fair amount. 9% of the project is better than a kick in the pants with a frozen muckluck. You are right, we are dwarfed by the revenues of Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City and United. It doesn't mean we cannot compete though. It's just more difficult. If we can build while still being able to take all team revenues and invest them in the team, I will be mighty impressed. Arsenal sold players to start the funding of their stadium. All edicts from ENIC suggest that will not happen in our case. Sooner we get the stadium, the better. If we can also qualify for CL more times than not from now until the stadium is up, the better. We will still spend within revenues though. Just what ENIC will (or will not) do. COYS

peterballb

peter....you have touched on the touchy subject.....of who gets the economy of the world going. The answer....as you have guessed in my wishing Enic and co' to spend......is the people who have money to spend. Yes, i've come to realise.....they run spurs as a Business....and prefer to spend their own monies on other things. BUT..the longer they prefer to spend on stocks , shares,paintings..or silly little leisure items, rather than bricks and mortar and humans.......then the longer the time real people will suffer and the world doom, gloom continue. They caused it, now we pay for it....whilst their bank balances astonish us.

82spursdebut

Hello all, Please help! Off topic I know but I want to go to watch the away match against Olympic Lyonnaise as I am living in the SW of France at the mo. Where can I get the tickets from, are they even on sale yet?

alee

82spursdebut, they are in the business of buying assets that are undervalued and underexploited and realizing the gains once that has all been corrected in the marketplace. They saw in Spurs a grossly undervalued product that was not being properly managed and stepped in for what will, at the end of the day, be considered a song. They are managing the business side extremely well (regardless of what industry you want to compare it to). 2007, 246M. 2011, 564M. In three months the 2012 numbers will be out and I expect we'll be approaching 600M. That is without yearly CL and without the stadium. When I see that only Unite are increasing their revenues more than we are, I have to say, that is a great thing. And since team revenues do get invested back in the team, it has meant we are much more competitive and that our weakest links are now much stronger. Not ideal or perfect, but I cannot say that Levy has not done wonders as regarding our sponsorships and kit sponsorships. And yes, the wealthy spending would help the world out of the current morass, but that is not how they got wealthy. They will get their deals, tax exemptions etc from all levels of government and then grudgingly spend a bit more while laughing all the way to the bank. Economies depend on the middle class and that group of people is slowly lowest common denominatoring themselves towards the have-nots. It is not a pretty picture. Families and businesses that have their financial houses in order will all be fine when the money grabbing starts. It's why I appreciate what ENIC are doing and why I do feel that we will be able to continue to progress even while paying for the training grounds and the new stadium. Not as quick as any would like, but prudent. COYS

peterballb

I can see all that Peter, as a adult.......but children do not understand. They just go by what they see, feel and hear. But they have good memory. Yes, spurs are progressing, slowly.......but do children see snails pace. The wealthy just need to remember....they cannot be buried with it.......and if they are not using it, is it really there, for them to feel. To be honest.....i just don't want mr.Levy to have too comfy a ride. He looks young for his age !....lol

82spursdebut

ENIC, Levy and Lewis should not be given an easy ride. I did not when it involved Jol and was even more apoplectic with the same error being made with Ramos. I did not begrudge him how he handled Modric, though, as I ststed, I would never have said he is not available at any price. Every player has his price just as if someone went to Levy and offered 500M for his share in ENIC, it would be a done deal. But on the whole, I have few complaints. I wuld never have hired Harry, but I get why they did. I would have brougt in, at a minimum, Son, but I can see why AVB didn't. AVB was not near the top of my list for the job, but I see why it was done. WE all want better. I hope to be able to bring my sons over to watch a game at WHL and then be able to do it again at new WHL. Regardless of owners, players, table position, I support Spurs. Have done so since I was a little lad. My eldest son already wants to know if they won and will watch with his old man. One has always had to have character and a love for proper footie to support spurs. That remains the case today. Long may it continue. COYS

peterballb

aarrhhh..yes, peter.....but knowing you, yourself endured many years of torment under the arse' fans shadow. Would you want the same for your children ? 2-1 against...could quite easily become 3-1 against, rather than 2-2. I'm not getting at you peter......just hopeing someone of power, belonging to spurs, in some way of sort, who may read this spurs fans site............understands the pain we endure. I think the value of THFC..may have gone up considerably, more due to the value of the real estate, they now own. But that's by the by..and Mr.Levy has worked his socks off for spurs, Enic and his family.

82spursdebut

Yes, some of Mr.Levy's managerial decisions, have been baffling. Not least, the sacking of Hoddle / M'jol...and the appointments of Ramos, Santini. AVB.......i just believe all managers should have one season at a time roll on contracts. Thus, Avb' was treated badly at chelski'...and any luck that comes his way, is fair, for a while.

82spursdebut

Spuds-U-Like, A polite kiss arse Enic/SUgar Hotspur fan club way to tel us sir scum shafted tel boy. You tell me I have my facts wrong about the profit loser Sugar made out of our club. I say 75 mil you £47m. Either way the guy made a fortune out of our club, destroyed it's reputation, made us the laughing stock of London with his Amstrad/Pony "your fired" style of football business! Then sold the club on to his mate Joe Lewis who has an even worst trophy per season record than Sugar, whilst being vastly more wealthy. You can kiss arse to Lewis and Sugar, make pathetic excuses on behalf a major corporations all you like, but you can't dispute or hide the THFC honors list during the Sugar Levy era. 2 Mickey Mouse Cups in 21 seasons, no major cup final other than the Mickey Mouse Cup reached in 21 seasons, no new stadium in 13 Enic seasons, only one CL qualification and your hero Lewis has the worst trophy per season percentage of any THFC owner in over half a century... Have I got my facts wrong there Spuds-U-Like-Enic???

pelebro

Spuds-U-Like tells his fellow Spurs fans how he feels about Enic having the worst trophy percentage of any THFC owners in over half a century. How he feels about our current owners not reaching an FA Cup Final in 13 seasons, how he feels about the club only making the CL only once in 13 seasons, whilst the Arsenal have been ever present... And let's not forget that invisible stadium that Levy announced was a priority 13 long years ago, which has resulted in 35,000 loyal Spurs waiting on Danny Boy's season ticket waiting list... He writes... "Personally, I'm happy with the progress we're making, albeit slowly"...

pelebro

Yes.

Your ignorance, as I said before, is breathtaking. Throw all the trophy stats you like, make as many smart arse remarks as you like, make as many stupid personal references you like, the bottom line is that you are wrong.

I don't have any need to defend myself against you. My facts are accurate because, unlike you, I take the trouble to make sure they are before posting. Merely repeating the same old misconceptions & garbage ad infinitum, doesn't make it correct, no matter how often you squeal your banalities.

That's why you'll never be taken seriously by the real Spurs fans on here.

Spuds-U-Like

Yeah, by the way, what's the stadium update?

Moscovite

Spuds-U-Like, tells me "Your ignorance, as I said before, is breathtaking. Throw all the trophy stats you like, make as many smart arse remarks as you like, make as many stupid personal references you like, the bottom line is that you are wrong." Spuds-U-Like, tells us that I am wrong when I state the club has only won 2 League Cups in the past 21 years during the Sugar/Levy eras... He tells me I am wrong that during the entire Sugar/Levy eras the club has failed to reach the final of any major cup tournament other than the League Cup. He tells me I wrong when I state the club has not reached a FA CUP final in the entire Sugar/Levy era's, which spans 21 years... He tells me I am wrong that Levy/Lewis have the worst trophy per season percentage of an THFC owners in over half a century... He tells me I am wrong when I correctly state the club has only reached the CL on one occasion in 13 seasons of Enic. He tells me I am wrong that ENIC have failed to deliver the new stadium they told their customers was a priority as part of the Enic PR campaign 13 long seasons ago. Spuds-U-Like tells me I am wrong that an estimated 35,000 Spurs fans are on the THFC season ticket waiting list because Levy/Enic have failed to deliver... This deluded Enic/Levy miser/scrooge gas that peterballb and his crew have been tripping on, is truly some really powerful stuff man...

pelebro

Now take a scroll up to the top of this page, and take a good look at their supplier. The face of Enic Hotspur...

pelebro

The boy pelebro says:

"sir scum shafted tel boy. You tell me I have my facts wrong about the profit loser Sugar made out of our club. I say 75 mil you £47m. Either way the guy made a fortune out of our club, destroyed it's reputation, made us the laughing stock of London with his Amstrad/Pony "your fired" style of football business! Then sold the club on to his mate Joe Lewis who has an even worst trophy per season record than Sugar, whilst being vastly more wealthy"

Sums up your entire approach to discussion, lack of respect & disdain for any opinion different to your own. Still, it's you perogative to act like Don Quixote, tilting at something you will never have any influence over. Maybe that's your problem, you can't change anything, so you behave like a frustrated toddler.

Give it up son, you'll never get the better of me or any other real Spurs fan.

Spuds-U-Like

Fact is, 4 teams have had more resources than us at all times since Sugar took over. City can now be added to that list although Villa and others were certainly better positioned than us as well. That said FA Cup and League Cups since Sugar took over have had been won 31 out of 42 times by the "big 4". Of the other teams that have won, Spurs have done as well or better than any other organization and given the current positions of Blackburn, Middlesborough, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Leicester and even, to a certain extent Villa, we ae better positioned than most going forward. Really one would think people would recognize how far ENIC have brought this team. Under Sugar, we managed a high in the league of 7th and twice finished 15th. We were the epitome of average. Now we are up there having qualified for Europe 6 of the past 7 seasons. We missed the boat on the PL riches and then the CL riches. It's hard to blame ENIC for any of that. There are 5 teams that have far greater resources than ours. We are in there with them all and are progressing at a rate quicker than almost any of them. So long as that continues, I will continue to take the odd annoyance with the grain of salt it deserves. Where will we finish this season? Anywhere from 3rd to 7th, I reckon. Stay tuned. COYS

peterballb

See pelebro? You can do it if you try & it is shedloads better, so thank you. Now we can discuss this sensibly without all the drama.

I agree with everything you say there. As I said before, we could have been a consolidated top 4 side before now, & with possibly a trophy or two, but for a bit more bravery & a little less parsimony on the part of the board.

I might think Levy & ENIC are doing a decent job, but I still recognise they've missed the boat sometimes & held us back. The new stadium is probably the most glaringly obvious one which could have been on stream by now but for all the farting around with the OS etc. I know these huge projects are difficult with major hurdles to overcome, but 21 years from the first statement of intent does seem am awfully long time to me.

COYMFS!

Spuds-U-Like

OH FECK! Damn dyslexia!!!! Sorry peter, thought you were he.

Spuds-U-Like

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