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Building Problems

There are a lot of complaints about progress on the new stadium. 

A news item this week highlighted some of the problems. Apparently a few days ago Haringey discussed the compulsory purchase of some land in connection with the redevelopment. This will then be resold to Spurs. The reason for this is that, apparently, it prevents residents taking out injunctions against the development. 

I don't pretend to understand the legal niceties but I have been involved with enough construction projects to know that no sane developer would start work on site with the threat of an injunction forcing him to down tools. Once you stop work the costs skyrocket. 

The point is this is out of our control. We can't issue a compulsory purchase order ourselves, we are entirely dependent on the council. How long it will take them to actually acquire the land is anyone's guess. Unless and until they do their job we are effectively stuck. 

I know fans want building the new ground to be simple, but it isn't. Arsenal had the advantage of a friendly council that, according to some local residents, bent over backwards to help the club. We have Haringey, who needed riots and our threats to leave just to get their attention. 

There is really no point in blaming Levy for things he has no control over, building a ground is more complicated than building a team.

Written by jod




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Writer: Jod Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday February 14 2013

Time: 10:55AM

Your Comments

Waiting for local councils can be so frustrating, I bet Levy is on the phone to them 2-3 times a week trying to hurry up the process!
Tactically Challenge
Totally agree. There is nothing Danny Boy can do about it.
spurboy61
I don't know where the complaints are coming from; but there is a CPO process that is now being followed, CPO's prevent any action by anyone.

As far as I'm being told the tender/negociating process of appointing the main contractor is still on-going, when that has been finalised (which does normally take months and months) and IF the financial instruments are in place only then would I expect further construction progress to be made.

Of course one of the key elements of the finance may well be achieving the right type of sponsorship deal for naming rights etc.

Simple old fashioned patience is called for here, it's in everyone's interest for this project to progress in a timely manner, which as far as I'm concerned, it is.
spursex
The situation re our "new stadium" reminds me very much of a certain cathedral in Barcelona, the construction of it dragged on and on until those involved expired, and it became a tourist attraction simply due to the fact that it was unfinished. If there are still issues re. compulsory purchase and therefore a start date, then how can the club issue a finish date of 2018. This is yet another example of a PR stunt to appease disgruntled critical fans, just as last day fantasy bids for unobtainable strikers are supposed to do. If you don't know if and when the work will start, how do you know when it will finish.
Frank
hopefully the delay will allow us to spend money on players in the summer rather than bricks...
shedboy2
Shame there are so many that think this process is a simple one & that somehow, Levy is dragging his feet over it. They haven't got a clue & can't grasp the basic tenet that Levy has absolutely nothing to gain with unnecessary delay, so why would he? They can't answer that.

I expect there to be lots of crap spouted from certain quarters today as they bask in their ignorance & pig headedness. Hunker down boys, it ain't going to be pretty.

Spuds-U-Like
''A news item this week highlighted some of the problems. Apparently a few days ago Haringey discussed the compulsory purchase of some land in connection with the redevelopment. This will then be resold to Spurs'' And at a tidy little profit, would be my guess, Councils take ages to sort out any problem let alone what THFC are trying to do, so this will be no different, many bridges to cross before this really gets off the ground and a shed load of legal fees. Just like buying a striker or midfield playmaker, 3rd party issues, AGAIN !!!!
spu 4 life
What a load of bull*****. Patience???? If ENIC had only taken over a year or two ago I wouldn't say a word, but they took over 13 years ago and one of the first things they promised was a new stadium. 13 years later, it's not even close to the first brick being laid. Patience is fine, but there's a limit to everybody's patience.
Hot_Spur
This is in fact good news regarding the new stadium. Upto now residents or businesses affected by the development could put in a complaint and hold up the progress of any work starting. After the latest meetings, this can no longer happen. If anyone is against the development all they can do is put in a compenation claim. They cannot affect the progress anymore. Upto now a main contractor has not been named due to the fact that worked could still be stopped, now this is not a problem the work is out to tender and will move a lot quicker. It is all systems go.
The Corner Pin
Good news if The Corner Pin is right. Nice to have clarification. And I presume you are THE Corner Pin, N17?
ParkLaneBB
It's a lot closer than it was last year Hot_Spur. Don't you know that bureaucracy holds everything up? Levy's probably had to handle hundreds, maybe thousands, of petty bureaucratic hurdles put up by silly little men in suits who think they have a little power & like to exert it at every opportunity. Especially if it can put a spanner in the works of a large "elitist" outfit like Spurs.

These bar stewards do it because they can, not because it's necessary.



Spuds-U-Like
Well said Frank and Hot_Spur. Those defending this nonsense shouldn't be such dullards. ENIC arrived 13 years ago and said priority number one was the development of our new stadium. 13 years is plenty of time to have moved this far, far further on than where we find ourselves today. All it takes is the actual desire to do it. The fact that ENIC have done nothing to move this forward tells you everything you need to know about their real intentions. Wake up and accept it please. Our new stadium will not be ready by 2018 if ENIC remain in charge until then (I'm happy to take bets on it). Those that think it will are completely deluded. The only chance of it happening by then is if ENIC sell up to someone who DOES actually want to build the stadium.
SpuriousLife
Haringey council have been a pain in the Arse from day one. They tried to bleed us dry and used every opportunity to try and get money from us one way or another. They only dropped the ridiculous demands when we were allegedly interested in moving to the OS and out of the area. There was uproar amongst local businesses and Haringey backed down and realised they need us. Look at the difference between this council and Newham. They offered Spam a loan of 40m to secure the Olympic Stadium for them. Haringey tried to fleece us, Newham tried to help Spam.. The fact that the Mayor of Newham is a SPam season ticket holder may have had something to do with it. But never the less, the difference is massive. This is taking alot longer than it should do, but i've seen the plans and the development and it will be more than worth the wait.. What now is a run down hell hole , will become a vibrant and impressive area to vist/live. We will have one of if not the best stadiums in the country. We will also be able to see the pitch unlike them idiots up the road and their pursuit of the athletics arena.
The Corner Pin
The Corner Pin, are you CP from inside on the forum? Let me know if you are, if you're not, glad to see you have his commonsense!
spursex
Frank,

their is a statutory process that's set down in law; so the council and the Club will both now what the timetable is and so both will be absolutely confident that a target date of 2018 is entirely realistic and isn't a PR stunt at all...the construction tenders are out, so whoever has won the main contractor bid (and that's yet to be announced) will have already agree a target start date.

Afraid you're way off target in your criticism of the club on this one.
spursex
Haringey are one of if not the worse council. From parking all the way to child protection they are totally incompetent. I've lived in their district for the past 5 years, we have no chance if we are relying on them!!

It now makes complete sense why la scum got so much money towards their stadium and we.........didn't. Nothing to do with the financial crisis just the fact they are under Islington and we are Haringey - how's your luck!
T.H.F.Chris
And your evidence for that is spurious?

Don't like seeing sweeping statements like that being made without any facts or anecdotal evidence to back it up & prove that ENIC have done nothing.

Spuds-U-Like
T.H.F.Chris

Le scum did not get a single penny of public money for their library:

see:http://www.davidlammy.co.uk/sitedata/PDFS/Corbyn_Letter_REDACTED.pdf
spursex
@Corner Pin. Finally someone who speaks sense regarding the new stadium. I've worked with a building company. It took them six years to get a go ahead on a huge construction site, because two minor landowners filed a complaint. 6 years with lawyers and lawsuits! That's one reason why Levy tried the shortcut via Stratford. All in place and ready to go.
dannylane
Spuds - the evidence is plain to see. 13 years in and not a brick laid in building our new stadium. I understand these things take time and Haringey are very difficult to deal with but we're talking about 13 years not 13 months. If ENIC wanted to do this they could have done it a lot quicker by actually pushing things forward. ENIC needed to be a lot more proactive. They haven't been and every tme you visit WHL there you will have all the evidence you need to see that they have not given our stadium redevelopment any priority at all. 35,000 seats in a stadium based in a terribly run down area and if you go there by car, if you stay until the final whistle, you will be stuck in traffic in the roads directly around the ground for at least 1 hour due to traffic. That is all the evidence I need. In business you MAKE THINGS HAPPEN if you want them to happen that is of course!
SpuriousLife
I'm sorry, spurious, but I don't see what you're seeing mate. As I said earlier in an earlier post, I think it's the effing bureaucrats with their petty rules & regs that have caused virtually all of the delay. I don't buy that Levy has simply sat on his hands, happy to pass up the opportunity to double match day income which is what you seem to be implying.

Unfortunately, neither you or I know what's been going on behind the scenes at Spurs or Haringey Council to be able to know the truth. Perhaps we'll never know the real reasons why it's taking so long.

Spuds-U-Like
2018 is way off. Once the tenders are agreed then optimistically 2015 is a completion date, or reallistically 2016. As danny lane has pointed out putting up the bricks and mortar is nothing compared to the red tape bullcrap. I personally still believe we had little or no intention of moving to Stratford, this was all a smoke screen to put the frighteners on Haringey, and it worked a treat. Their caveats were bordering on ridiculous, but after our interest in the OS most of if not all their caveats were dropped. Spurious; the reason there is mass congestion on match days is also another reason why this process has been delayed.. The council have to consider safety, if there is massive problems with a 35k stadium, you can imagine the problems with a 56k stadium. All the routes in and out will be mental and this needs sorting.. It's always a problem having a stadium in a built up area. Our hands have been relatively tied on a number of massive issues.. one by one we are undoing these ties.. It is a more than lengthy process.. Like I said earlier, it will be worth the wait.
The Corner Pin
Great points TCP, it's that sort of thing that gets forgotten in all the frustration with the delays.

Spuds-U-Like
From the start I think it was a smoke screen, Corner, but along the way it became a viable option. Levy had an agreement with AEG to rebuild and maintain the olympic stadium. They were surely interested to run the sideshow with concerts and events. Maybe even as part owners of both the club and of course the stadium.
dannylane
Personally, I never thought that a staium would be built on day 1 or even in the first few years. There was no way in heck that we were going to be able to finance a 400M stadium for a club worth about 100M. The only way to do such a thing would have been to sell top players for top dollar and take those profits and put them directly to the stadium, as Arsena did. Arsenal did not get financial ssistance but then they were allowed to build their 65k seat stadium as they wished. We have been told we had to reduce capacity (original drawing had capacity well in excess of 60k) and now we are only allowed planning permission for 56k. That is a huge cut in potential revenues. We thus rightly asked for contributions (quid pro quo) and had to threaten to move to get what is fair. But get it we did. The value of Spurs has also gone from a mere 100M to 564M over that same time. I dare say funding will be easier to obtain and it seems that the mechanisms are in place to continue developments like the training ground and the stadium without touching the "football revenues". Fact is, we missed the boat on the early EPL revenues and thus lost out on CL revenues. We were not even in the game. Now we are in the conversation. Hardly ideal and a long wait, but this may well be a case of better late than earlier. COYS
peterballb
Well said peter!! Top, top post.

Sorry for slipping into a Quinceyism there.

Spuds-U-Like
I've simply one thing to say on the New stadium. If it is not complete and ready for the 2017/18 season. Then after that date i will never visit White hart lane again, whilst Enic are in control Of THFC. Plus i will discourage my son from attending. I remember to well the loss of the Shelf upset......and come through that......but this continual saga...causes to much annoyance.
82spursdebut
ooops !....too...rather than to.
82spursdebut
13 seasons in and Danny Boy's Enic Hotspur PR fan club members, are still coming on here making their pathetic excuses for Levy and Lewis totally failing to provide an estimated 35,000 Spurs fans on the THFC waiting list, with seating! Levy and Lewis have failed to build a new stadium on the existing site, they have failed to find alternative land anywhere in North London to build their new stadium, as the Arsenal did. And they failed in their pathetic bid for the Olympic stadium in east London. And now the Enic PR boys have been instructed to come here and make more pathetic excuses for the new stadium now going past the new 2017/18 deadline! Enic apologists give up! We REAL Tottenham fans see straight through your pathetic Enic PR lies...
pelebro
Feck off with your "REAL Tottenham fans" $h1te perlebro, you wouldn't recognise a real Spurs fan if they knee'd you in the head. Grow up.

Spuds-U-Like
@SpuriousLife - give the board and ENIC a break.....look at where we were as a club when they came in? Bottom half of the table year in year out, if they'd have tried to build a 56,000 seater stadium then, we would have ended up like 'boro, bolton, or any other average (back then) prem side with a big stadium - we wouldn't have had the bums on seat. The club HAD to progress to a level that justified a 56,000 seater, state of the art stadium, which we now have...i'll admit, we could be 1 year, possibly 2 years behind where we would ideally be regarding the new stadium, but 13 years behind schedule is not true.
Klinsmann_18
Yes, course it really is that easy.. All you have to do is spot a bit of waste land and next day build a stadium on it.. We have had a team of architects and lawyers trying to find a piece of land to build on, but we have come up with blanks. Not due to the lack of space but the public transport links.. If there was a suitable alternative in N London then believe me we would have already started the build.. If thinking it's as easy as ABC to build a new stadium makes you a" REAL" Tottenham fan then i'll gladly admit i'm not one.
the corner pin
Ignore him TCP, his answer to those he disagrees with is to throw silly little derogatory persoanl remarks. It hides the fact he can't defend his views with any proper evidence. He thinks merely repeating the same old garbage makes it true, it's itellectually deficient.

Spuds-U-Like
Spursex don't believe that crap 'offer' 'considered state aid' all political bull****e... What that actually says is 'we gave AFC loads of cash but we can justify it'. David Lame eey's letter should ask the simple question 'how much money did you give them'?
T.H.F.Chris
No problem S-U-L. There is a massive difference between deluded opinion and fact, some just see it as an opportunity to have a pop at Daniel Levy.. I find it hilarious that people blame Levy for not buying a striker or dragging his heels over the Stadium. He doesn't own ENIC, he is the Managing Director.. Also ENIC hold 85% of shares in Tottenham. We are a well run club with little or no debt. I remeber West Ham fans being ecstatic when the Icelandics took them over and started splashing ridiculous amounts of cash.. And look what they did to that club. Villa are going the same way.. Our new training ground is the best in the country and in 3 years or so we will have the best stadium in the country.. It is taking time but that is not the clubs fault.. We could build a new stadium away from N London but thousands of fans have opposed any such idea.
the corner pin
the corner pin, You write... "There is a massive difference between deluded opinion and fact". Do you believe I am being deluded when I inform you, that Daniel Levy has the worst trophy per season percentage of any THFC chairman in over half a century? Do you think I am being deluded when I tell you that Levy has failed to reach an FA CUP final in 13 seasons? Do you believe I am deluded when I inform you that Levy has only reached the Champions League once in 13 seasons whilst the Arsenal have been ever present during the Enic era? We won't even go into the 30,000 plus Spurs fans waiting on Danny Boy's Fantasy Football season ticket waiting list, because you seem to find it hilarious that the official THFC chairman (the man who runs the club) should be held responsible for any of the appalling statistical facts I have listed above...
pelebro
How do I " find it hilarious " that we have we have not made an FA cup final for 13 years when you have not mentioned it before? We were talking about the Stadium situation. Saying that it's Levy's fault that we have not got a new stadium yet is hilarious and deluded.. The fact that there are 31,000 on the season ticket waiting list is why the club are trying to get a new stadium.. How can you build a new stadium when so many factors are making it so difficult.. If it was down to the club it would have been built by now, but it's not down to the club, it's down to Haringey council plus local people opposing the idea. That hurdle has been overcome now and things will progress. Daniel Levy is not beyond critisism, the way he handled the Jol sacking was appalling. The appointment of Ramos was a poor choice. But blaming everything on him is wrong and unwarrented. No one wants that new stadium more than Levy but everyone and everything upto now have been against him. I can name 16 premier league clubs who would kill to be in our position. To remain as top 4 or 5 club over the past few seasons without getting into massive debt is a great achievement. Look at Liverpool, they spent £38m on Carroll, £20m on Downing, £16m on Henderson, and £15m on Joe Allen, and where has it got them?
The Corner Pin
Forget it TCP, he keeps oncoming up with the same stupid facts about trophies etc., time & time again. It's all he's got to back up his blinkered view that because of that, Levy & Enic are doing a crap job.He forgets there are only 3 domestic trophies up for grabs each season & thinks that somehow, we have a divine right to win one of them& because we don't, it's all Levy's fault. His view is too simplistic to be taken seriously & when he accuses those of us who disagree with his perspective, we're labeled as not being real fans.That sums up his immature mentality as far as I'm concerned.

Spuds-U-Like
Yes it seems that way.. What makes a "REAL" fan? I am a season ticket holder and a share holder but that doesn't make me anymore a real fan than someone who can't afford to go but has the same passion toward the club. Calling yourself a real fan because you think it's levy's fault that we haven't got the new stadium yet is just daft.
the corner pin
It certainly is TCP. Bet he wouldn't like it if we accused him of anti-semetism for his hatred of Levy, an equally un-provable label.

Spuds-U-Like
Oh dear. So many Flat Cap Syndromers, so little time.
lordjohnny
 

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