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Who wants Stylish pretty football?...

Under our previous manager I felt we played as a team, the whole movement was fluid, fast, threatening, very attractive and often very productive.

Our style was envied by all!. However, that style, in my opinion, was built around a limited set of players which evidently tired and misfired during the latter stages of the season. To maintain that level would've required immense investment. In contrast, this season we have a very different scenario, namely, a broader range of (a fully utilised squad) players, who for differing reasons have yet to give me an image of a style that could be called consistent or even recognisable.

We've discussed the issues of new manager, adapting, gelling, formations, tactics, strikers, wingers and their advantages + short comings. But can you honestly say that with 60% through the season we have a defined style?. ! Perhaps one can say that in itself could be good thing in that the oppositions don't know what to expect. Though often, even Spurs fans don't know what to expect from one match to another!.

About the only certain starter on the team sheet is Lloris. Beyond that we have swapped and changed every position (due to injuries, tactics or rotation) and despite not having a like-for-like cover for every positions, we have somehow arrived at sitting comfortably 4th and still in sight of 3rd in the Premier League.

In the top five, we are just ahead of Man U (by one goal) for scoring the least number of goals and in that group, we are worst in terms of goals conceded and worst for goal difference.

Historically Spurs have always been synonymous with playing attractive football. How productive is our recent history (with regards to trophies) in trying to maintain that status?. Even Arsenal with their fixed attractive style have failed to lift a trophy for a considerable time. The modern football requires fast and incisive thinking and changes to adapt and to achieve results. I feel with a rigid style you have a predictable, attractive (and not so, in some cases) performances and you are unlikely to achieve LONG term success. Swansea and Stoke are two good examples and both likely to maintain a stable position in the league. One could argue that Barcelona are monotonously consistent in their football and monotonously successful!

So, it appears that part of our NEW PROJECT is to scarifice some of that finesse, sleek passing game but in order to compete at the highest level and be challenging for top 4 consistently, we need to be more adaptive (or mix it up). Man U, City and Chelsea are just that, albeit the latter two have the resources to make some radical changes!

In conclusion, I want to see Spurs improve on the goal tally, the league position, the fear factor that we exude and a long term development and stability of the team. Success in modern football, (without spending lavishly), will! only come through hard work, the right management and a flexible adaptive squad. As long as we have those qualities, do we need a style?

Written by Critical_Spur

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Writer: Critical_Spur

Date:Sunday February 17 2013

Time: 8:25AM

Your Comments

I've always been a fan of the "Spurs Way" of playing glamorous, easy on the eye football, but winning ugly is something we've never been able to do. AVB does have us playing some fantastic football at time, so I do believe that it is still there in our repertoire, but with the side having to adjust so much to more rigid tactics and a structured approach to the game (especially defensively) it is always going to take time until everything clicks into place. Personally, i'm happy with the progress and am fairly confident that with the right amount of time and a couple of key additions in the summer, we'll be playing the same kind of breathtaking attacking football we were last season, coupled with the sturdy, reliable defensive game we've thrown together this.

dave the yid

No we won't see that "breathtaking" fast flowing football we saw with Harry. Playing at high speed for 90 minutes takes a hell of a lot out of the players, that's why they collapsed in second half of season two years running. I'm not saying we won't play attractive football when AVB has his "own" team in place but it won't be that 100 mile an hour player knackering stuff.

Hot_Spur

Who doesn't

tophobunty

Hot spur, no way is that why we collapsed last season. There were a number of factors for that of which what you described might have been one of th smaller factors.

tophobunty

Critical, we could play the way you desrcibe last year NOT because of tecmanager but because last year we ha the cog to get the best from our wide pace. Modric. This year we don't, it's really that simple.

tophobunty

Lets not worry too much about style this season. Lets get success through consistency. You say Spurs are synonomous with style, but they are also synonomous with inconsistency and a tendancy to implode at the final furlong. Given some of the performances we may consider ourselves lucky to be where we are (4th). But having said that its entirely possible we will be 3rd in one weeks time. Thats what I call style!

jacobslad

Some changes don't impact that much on the playing style. AVB has been able to rotate central defenders because we are lucky enough to have a good group, it doesn't really affect how we play. If however you need to play without Lennon or Bale, or you want to play Bale centrally, then the playing style has to change because we have no like for like cover. AVB has done what any good manager does and tried to get the best from the players he has, changing formations as and when necessary. What is encouraging is that as the season has progressed we've gone from a team that drops points to a team that wins tight games. If you can't win ugly you can't win the premier league, because you aren't going to be able to play at your best through the whole season.

jod

tophobunty - I just love people who dispute other people's comments without giving any valid reasons or explanations - well argued !! Then again you're a know-it-all that argues with everybody so I take your comments with a pinch of salt.

Hot_Spur

Well said Jod.

tophobunty

It's not as if we've suddenly started playing ugly. It's just not up to the standards we have become used to. This is definitely down to a change in personnel; not just Modric, but VDV and - though it will pain certain people to hear it - Redknapp. Whatever his other faults as a manager, he has always aspired, and normally achieved a very aesthetically pleasing brand of football wherever he has managed. But AVB also came to the Premiership with a reputation for attractive, attacking football. It just hasn't quite clicked with us yet. Fortunately, this has not come to the detriment of our results. I doubt that we'll ever see the devil may care brilliance that we did under Redknapp, because AVB is too methodical for that. I reckon we'll still be easy on the eye though, and very, very successful.

darkenvai

Our team plays with style, a style of possession, patience football. This is a consistent style and doesnt depend on the players on the pitch, simply based on formation & tactics. Last season, there was no tactics, no formation, it came down to who was on the pitch. With Modric, VDV, Bale & Lennon we were unplayable in some games, but when we started loosing Lebnnon & Bale to injuries we lost it. This season, it doesnt matter who we lost. We are a consistent bunch. But tbh, loosing Bale could be a disaster but AVB has shown enough in his short career at Spurs, he can setup a team to play to get points.

I really pray we get to the CL spot and hope Levy does all he can to to make Bale stay. With every single game, he is becoming a monster now. If we can finish in CL, keep Bale, add a striker (hopefully!!!) next season, sky is the limit for us.

sydqcb5

I agree with the author, I'm not sure that we have a style as such. AVB sets up his team according to the opposition, his main concern seems to be making us hard to beat, after that it's all about control of the football. It's simply a case of if we have the ball, we can't concede a goal. This is the reason why we're seeing far more sideways and backwards play. Our build up play is sometimes painfully slow to watch as we haven't, until the arrival of Holtby, had a player with the 'big picture' in his head. Without a clinical finisher in the squad, we are never going to win games by 3 or 4 goals, so the best thing for us to do is keep it tight and hope that a moment or two of individual brilliance will decide things for us. Without Bale, well it doesn't bare thinking about really. Of course we are not a one man team but we are relying on him heavily at the moment, which is something that all teams with a special player do at times.
Given the personell at his disposal, I think that what AVB has achieved so far is nothing short of remarkable and he is fully entitled to take the lions share of praise for where we find ourselves at the moment. If he's backed in the summer with three top quality players, one creative midfielder and two strikers then I can see us mounting a serious challenge for the title. Only when AVB has his players in will we see a proper style start to develop, hopefully that style will be one that doesn't give the opposition time to get set against any attack that doesn't involve Bale. We do need to up the pace a bit but it's a fine balance between swift incisive play and headless chicken mode.
I guess it all depends on where we finish this year, no top 4 and we'll probably be looking at losing a couple of our best players which will result in us developing a style that won't be easy on the eye or our league position. Top four finish and backing from the board and the sky really is the limit with AVB in charge. Just gotta keep everything crossed for an injury free run in and some of our other players to chip in with some goals from open play. COYS

thfc1882whl

We didn`t play breathtaking football under Harry .Had it`s moments of brilliance , but i remember most of the time we were good in one half ,complete $hit in another .
Already won more away games this season than last ,so with a less attractive squad we`re def more organised .

When you`re a club that only has 2 League cups to it`s name in the last 20+ years ,then results first ,performance second .Lived in the shadows for far too long .

big cockeral

Although it is nice to play "pretty football", the most important thing is to play successful football, and it is not necessarily the same thing. One thing that I think is a concern is our lack of the "killer instinct", we dominate many games and still struggle to "put them to bed". We lack the ability to create, and finish, enough chances to win games comfortably, and also establish healthy GD figures when compared to our rivals. I know a win is a win, but an emphatic win is good for the nerves, and useful at the end of the season, when GD becomes a factor. Incidentally I will say again that AVB is not only proving to be a competent manager, but is also a lucky manager. We have nicked results in games where they have looked unlikely, even though in many cases we have dominated. We really need to give out the occasional "good hiding" to establish a more "feared" status in the way that our rivals do.

Frank

Frank.... You're right when you say AVB seems to be a lucky manager, said so myself a few times. Thing is, we're getting "lucky" a little too often for it to be down to just luck. I think that with the way he meticulously prepares his teams for each match individually, he creates the opportunities for this "luck" to happen. They do say that you mVB seems pretty good at it. I honestly believe that AVB could turn out to be the best manager we've seen at the club since Sir Bill, but and it's a big but, he

thfc1882whl

posted early there. ...... big but, he needs proper backing from upstairs.

thfc1882whl

Love the 'Spurs Way' but let's be honest playing stylish football counts for little unless you are successful. Hate to bring the issue up again but if we had a class striker we would be smashing teams - Adebayor has been playing so poorly with no signs of improvement, we should cut our loses and say good bye to him in the summer.

MrSpurs

wtf....Frank.... You're right when you say AVB seems to be a lucky manager, said so myself a few times. Thing is, we're getting "lucky" a little too often for it to be down to just luck. I think that with the way he meticulously prepares his teams for each match individually, he creates the opportunities for this "luck" to happen. They do say that you make your own luck and AVB seems pretty good at it. I honestly believe that AVB could turn out to be the best manager we've seen at the club since Sir Bill, but and it's a big but, he needs proper backing from upstairs.
That's better, is it me or does this site go belly up more often now?

thfc1882whl

Thanks for the insults hot spur, wasn't sure I insulted you just disagreed with part of of what you said. The other factors why we collapsed last season were, poor management in general, poor tactics, a manager being in court and facing an uncertain future because of the court case. A manager very publicly courting another very high profile job. The lack of ambition in the January window. All of these factors are more likely reasons than the one you gave, our players played as much or less football than other clubs challenging around us who all tried also to play 100% every game one hopes.

tophobunty

I accept what you say thfc1882whl, but AVB doesn't award us free kicks in the last minute, or arrange great opportunist strikes late on etc. things have panned out in our favour in several games, due to "the rub of the green", long may it continue. I am not complaining just making the point. Of course, if we bought a genuine goal scoring striker, the good fortune would not be necessary, we could win convincingly without it, and play with 11 men instead of 10.5 when either Defoe, or worse still Adebayor, are involved.

Frank

I see our style as a solid counter attacking team, set up to be organised and resilient in the middle with a bit of flare and ability on the wings and upfront. Upfront however is not working so we are no the finished article and we are not realising our full attacking potential. Hopefully with a striker and attacking wing cover we'll get there.

What do I prefer. Looking at individual matches WHL was much more exciting under Harry but deep down I'm a win at all costs guy so if AVB's can keep producing results it'll do for me.

T.H.F.Chris

It's been a Interesting nail biting season so far, that's for sure. As for looking for the ultimate "Effective Football". I don't think we are that far off from seeing it, at spurs. Just hopeing spurs are refreshed and ready to smash Westwham. One game at a time...must win scenario....every prem' game.

82spursdebut

Frank ..... Fair enough mate but what if players are being told to make these runs because so and so is liable to give away free kicks in these areas. If the players aren't there then the fouls aren't committed.
We can single out plenty of players who have yet to turn up but the facts are that we all knew that Defoe (who has done his share this season and played when injured), Adebayor and Dempsey were never of the required quality to secure regular top 4 finishes.
Of all our signings this season only Vertonghen and Holtby look like regular starters in a top 4 club. I know some will argue that Dembele is good enough but for me he is a sub at best. He may still be suffering from his hip injury as he looked much more accomplished earlier in the season, still not creative enough though. Yes a good through ball for Ade to blast wide the other night but nothing else that sticks in the memory. Holtby in his cameo appearances has already provided more incisive passes than Dembele. Just don't see where he fits in when everyone is fit.

thfc1882whl

We have lost our two main ball playing players in Modric and VDV and not replaced them with players anywhere near the same quality. So our style of play had to change. Still not sure what type of player Dembele is. He goes round players for fun but still for me does not open teams up like Super did. I still have not seen a fluid performance from the start of the game till the finish all season. West Ham was as good as it got at home this season. We have really only played in spells this season. Off topic but I would be amazed if we can keep Bale after this season. I do not think Levy has shown any ambition during the last few season in the transfer market and the last one was a joke. I still do not think we will make the champions league spot either. This team is not as good as last seasons team. I think that fault has to lie with our chairman. I still do not get the link up with Real Madrid. Surely it is in place for them to land Bale. Not like they have done us any favours.

nothappyharry

The rub of the green turf, has gone our way a little recently. I.e....m.utd..should have had a pen'......away vs norwich......WBADA,helping spurs to beat them.....Lyon should have had a pen'............BUT BUT BUT.....swings and roundabouts....and Dam, we've had our fair share of badluck, set backs....most notably our injury list and chelski's upset.

82spursdebut

1882 I agree with wanting more from Dembele but that's where the manager has influence. I think AVB tells him not to over commit going forward so if a move breaks down he is always behind the ball, making us more solid. I know that doesn't explain his lack of passing but he looks more like a ball runner than creative passer. Last season Modric was at the byline looking to create a cross, this year Dembele hangs around outside of the 18yd box, last year modric's play meant we were more likely to score, this year Parker/sandro have Dembele for company to help defend.

T.H.F.Chris

Spurs way ? HA HA lmao ,, everybody miss the 90`s ?

big cockeral

nothappyharry....are you aware that Mr.levy made a Near £20mill' offer for Leandro damaio, in the last transfer window. As said by the president of internacional ? Maybe..it's fair argument on your other points..and your entitled to your opinions. Let's hope all goes well for the rest of the season and the summer.

82spursdebut

T.H.F...it's the system AVB asks spurs to play.....i.e...2 defensive holding midfielders. ..i.e...4,2,3,1......seems to be more or less working at the min'.....maybe due to luck..maybe Bale....who knows...but at the min'...who is to argue, when we are 4th / nearly 3rd...and it could be a exciting finish to this season.

82spursdebut

I have heard Levy has made a lot of bids for players, but he can not get the deals done for these big players.

nothappyharry

nothappyharry...... The RM deal was all about them getting our best players and us getting the commercial revenue that comes with being mentioned in the same breath. Nothing more than a cynical marketing ploy on our side of the deal, pure ENIC.
I was saying before the window that if we didn't buy at the very least, a quality striker then 4th would be beyond us by about 10 points. I stand by that now, even though Bale may just carry us over the line. An injury to Bale and our season is over, we may not lose too many but where are our goals going to come from?
Fail to get top 4 and Bale is gone, Sandro and Vertonghen won't be far behind either. Finish top 4 and fail to show any ambition and Bale is gone. The only way to keep Bale is to finish top 4 and immediately go out and buy big to show Bale and the others that we mean business and that they can achieve their ambitions at THFC. As the great man said "It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory." He also said this and it still rings true to me "If you don't win anything, you have had a bad season." I know there are some who are happy with us being also rans but that's not the Tottenham way, regardless of where we've been, the ambition has always remained.

thfc1882whl

not'.....yes, maybe so.....but he is trying. Maybe it was the wrong target, for the amount of money spurs could afford.......but well, let's just keep fingers crossed for this season. I can see swop shop for the summer.....a lot will depend on how we finish this season off.

82spursdebut

I sort of get the feeling that ENIC are already counting the dough from a Bale move in the summer. Will it be used to provide the stadium that won't see a bum on a seat until 2018 at the earliest? Your guess is as good as mine as we seem to be haemorrhaging cash at an alarming rate. Has Joe Lewis bought himself a whole island in the Bahamas off the back of player sales?

thfc1882whl

Spursdebut I agree, if we are consistent until the end of the season it is a better one as we'll end up with more points than last year. But as the article asks it changes our play from exciting attacking football to solid results driven football. Put a brilliant striker in there next year and we could have both!

T.H.F.Chris

thfc1882whl......well if we finish in the top 4.....then we have "won" entry into the champions league for next season. I'd like to know....if we won the Europa league this season and achieved top 4.........would spurs be given the choice of which european league to compete in, for next season ?

82spursdebut

we'll just have to make do with fantastic Bale goals, for now.....fingers crossed anything that changes is for the positive to THFC.

82spursdebut

This season was always going to be about rebuilding, and implementing a new system, and to be fair with a bit of luck and some flashes of brilliance were in fourth and fighting for possibly second in the premier league. Judgement will come next season for me when we sell the players we don't need, and bring in another three or four players to compliment the squad we have.

Jantheman

82spursdebut..... Finished top four last year mate and didn't "win" entry into the CL. Will fourth even be good enough to win entry into the CL qualifiers this year? After all, who can honestly say that they thought Chelsea would beat Barca over two legs and Bayern in their own back yard? Third has got to be the target at the very least, fourth has too many banana skins attached. Who are we going to attract before the qualifier is played, not many players will join on the offchance of CL football.

thfc1882whl

This goes farther. Last year, as Big C said, we also tended to have one good and one bad half, but this year appear to be intentionally playing a slower tempo for periods , and even attempting to win entire games at a low yield. This is not unique as SAF and Utd have continually produced an overall approach to the season, often retaining their optimum effort for the most important periods, even having a fit but fat Rooney for the majority of a season to come and score a goal a game for the final period. The long game is the big game these days and if you don't have a Chelsea/ManC squad you must reserve the banks and control the output. I believe we still have a gear to go up this season, and possibly another next season when the personnel are fully suited, and the foundation of the kind of team we are under AVB is fully established for the team. In fact, I see improvements in this department every week, which is saying something of our prolonged and consistent development for what is now a period of over six months.

ardone

I think this is an interesting question as there is a very apparent change to our style of play and the contrast between the mangers offers some great contexts for understanding the role of tactical decisions. Frank, you mentioned that AVB is a lucky manager, but went on to suggest that this cannot be considered as part of his tactical approach (I know this was the free kick, but I'll take up the point anyway), but I disagree with the second point. To me AVB consciously tries to increase the chances of luck going our way and the amount of efforts we have from outside the box gives me this impression. I'm not saying that he is unique in this matter, but I see our attempting a shot at every given opportunity as lessening the possibility for losing possession to an opponent who is in control of the ball, and we focus on commanding the areas outside the box for rebounds. Here we also work less at trying to develop a through ball and so we tend not to be as exhausted/frustrated as we were under HR from failing to break down defenses. HR also liked to get two/three players overloading a flank which gave us that sense of exciting, intricate play but also had more of our players working at high yield at the same time. 3 or even 4 of Modric, VDV, Lennon, Bale or Ade would often be seen within yards of each other on a single flank, this rarely happens under AVB. And so, we have Ade not as involved and Defoe suiting the singular role of sticking a goal. Everyone understands that defending is far more energy draining, and the control of our own energy levels is, in my view, a deliberate attempt to 'load the dice'.

ardone

ardone....... Two great post there mate.

thfc1882whl

What is pretty football? Was that pretty football le scum played yesterday, only they had most of the ball and never scored, they lost 1-0. We have had games on the same scale, all over a team and just don't get the goals needed to win it, that's why we post ''we need a striker'' after every game we don't win. Teams set out to stop us in the final third, we have all seen it ''parking the bus'' or as Tim Sherwood put's it, the ''wagons'' across the 18yd box, Newcastle did it along with time wasting. If you/we have the ball the other team can't score ''patience'' is the key Parker get's slatted for his litte 5yds passes to our players, then back again and back again, he does this to draw a player to the ball, he then moves away and the ball goes into the space to find another one of our players, watch him closer, Lloris gets the all passed back and will switch to the other side aka from walker to vertonghen/caulker, is that pretty football, no maybe not, but we keep hold of the ball, moving it from side to side frustrates teams and wears them down, then we attack in numbers, this team is doing well, AVB has done a good job to date, the only thing pretty about football is us winning, pretty happy when that happens.

spu 4 life

ardone..... Having read them again, possibly two of the best posts I've ever seen on here. Fair play to ya.

thfc1882whl

oh, apart from mine of course ;-)

thfc1882whl

There has been no deliberate change in our playing style. The main difference has been in the TEMPO of our play and the way we control match tempo. We have lots of possession and still have pace wide but where we are lacking this season is a player in the middle of the pitch who recycles and moves the ball wide and/or forward QUICKLY. Modric used to do it but it is not the way Dembele plays. Parker goes sideways or backwards. Sandro is a ball carrier more than a quick passer. The key for us is going to be Holtby. He is the player most capable of positively influencing the tempo of our play. He is strong and tough and he has a fantastically quick footballing mind. He will be the one that will choose to shift the ball forward quickly seeing a pass or charging past players. He will also get beyond the strikers to pressure defences. At the moment we play too much of our football in front of the opposition. That makes us easy to defend against. We need to break that up during games by injecting pace and different decisions at differrent times. The solution is to bench Parker and play Holtby. All great teams (Barcelona, Germany, Brazil etc. etc.) dictate tempo. That is the key (and a decent sriker of course! :)

SpuriousLife

Striker! Sorry.

SpuriousLife

On the point of the differing personnel from last year, I think it has less impact than the tactics. VDV could not have played in AVB's team, there's too much of responsibility on each player to have a set role. I think Modric would have been at home with AVB and would have scored more than Dembele has, but the level of control and possession would not have varied much and Modric was not so entirely adept at finding a through ball that we would have been vastly improved by him. Ade is the major difference, if we are discussing the effect of personnel, as his role has completely changed and this is why, for him, I am more sympathetic than most. I would almost like to see him played as a winger just so he could have that more bombastic impact that we saw last year. His, now limited, role has had the most profound effect on the excitement factor in our play. Even more than Bale, imo, did Ade light up WHL when he got on his bike as we all felt the effort and enthusiasm of this often sullen character as he enjoyed his football. The strange thing is that he was the guy who passed the ball at the right time and his assists prove this, weird for a guy who is considered of an egotistic ilk? There's no role for him with the single striker as he's not clinical enough through the middle, and perhaps even the subdued (imo enforced) energy levels doesn't rhyme with his enthusiasm for wild 'Grizzlor' unbeatable stylie he seems to enjoy. Anyway, there's my E2.05.

ardone

Off topic... chavs game is 0 - 0. Ian wright has glasses which look like the old cartoon Mr. Magoo... lol..

Block D Spurs

thfc1882whl, thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed the read!

ardone

Spurious, I would like to agree with you that Holtby would replace Parker right now, and in effort I think he could. But he brings a level of risk to his play that seems to me to be dangerous for a MF player. Dembele would need to drop the deeper of the two, and although he has been excellent defensively, I'm not sure handing him the defensive role in the MF is wise. Holtby is game, but he'll still need to clean up his tackling, positioning etc for a MF 2. Also, lumping him with the responsibility of MF is a factor, it's the most crucial area for the team as we always at least come out even-Steven there in every game, easily winning in most. His impact as a sub has been very strong so far and that offers enough positives right now that perhaps the better move is to keep him on the bench. The misses he had against Newcastle seemed to me to shake his confidence for the rest of the match, so I'd be reluctant to really put him in the spotlight yet. I would prefer Siggy to Dempsey right now, but there must be good reason for the delay in offering him the starting place.

ardone

West Ham away, Arsenal at home, Liverpool away; a season defining set of fixtures coming up IMO, I just pray that Adebayor starts showing some form or or at the very least some interest!

MrSpurs

I agree with what most are saying. Last year we played 100 mile an hour footie which was qiuality at times. However the reason we dropped off was because there were no tactics involved. We became predictable an weren't able to change anything because Redders didn't have the tactical nous. Once times realised how to defend against us, like play ten men behind the ball, then that lightning quick football don't work. But as I said Redknapp didn't have the tactical knowledge to one accept this but also change it. Our drop off was not to do with tiredness or who we signed or anything. Under AVB we have tactics. We are patient when needed but also devastating on the counter at times. But granted we have rarely created clear cut chances but for me that is solely down to strikers who have no football brain an no lock picker until Holtby arrived. If we had a striker that would make selfless runs to create space not just for himself but also his teammates we would score a lot more an kill teams off a lot more as well. Our squad is not as strong as last year. What AVB has done is remarkable. An he's figured out what to do with Bale to get him involved in games if teams try to make him out the game

BrooksySpurs

As long as we're winning, im happy, though a manager will always get more sympathy from supporters if his team loses playing stylish football, than if his team loses playing boring football.

Guyver

Mrspurs don't forget to throw the possibility of Inter Milan Home between the Arse and Liverpool, and then away between Liverpool and Fulham, five games in 13 days between the 3rd March and the 16th March, that is potentially a ***** or bust situation.

Jantheman

I don't get all this talk about AVB being such a lucky coach? Lucky coaches normally get easy rides to the FA Cup final. Well we had an easy ride in both domestic cups, and yet got knocked out by lower league opposition in both? Was AVB lucky there? Of course the the second leg in Lyon will determine how lucky AVB is in the Europa... And as for the premiership title race, well, we are currently 17 points behind United. Does that make United lucky and us unlucky? Or are we just unlucky to have 2 board members who are worth a combined 4.5 billion fortune, who are to tight to pay for the final pieces in the AVB THFC squad jigsaw puzzle... AVB in my opinion is very unlucky to have such scrooges pulling the purse strings of his squad!

pelebro

Peelbroski, everything you ever say on here is a cover to give you an opportunity to say the same thing as illustrated in this last 4-5 lines. Are you alone in your room?

tophobunty

IMO, teams can only play and succeed with a "particular style" if they are far superior to everyone out there. Only Barca can do that and it does not always work. Reality is, if you want to win and exceed you "on paper" ability, you play based on the opposition in front of you. Harry didn't have that in him. So, he threw out his "style" (aka let the best XI run around and hope you win ,more than you lose). Mancini tried this in 09/10. Most would agree, on paper, they had a more talented starting XI and a more talented squad, but we pipped them to it. Could have gone either way but we were, that season, more of a team, so the "team" won out. Since then, Mancini, when he has played us, has played to not let us do what we want. That resulted in the tables being turned in 10/11 and 11/12. Mancini coached and won, just as Sir Alex does. Now we have a manager who coaches and now it is suggested, we have no style. I would suggest that the style is now one where we will play the opposition and minimize their threats while allowing our players the 90 minutes to get the goal(s) that will be needed to get the win. Why do Arsenal not win? Simple. They play their style and as they no longer have the best players, their style is defendable. They are good, but their attack is the same. They have style. They control the ball. But generally, they are not full of surprises so resolute defending will work. It does against us when we face teams that set themselves up to defend. The short pitch kills us. Now, if Bale can keep firing on free kicks and we can start scoring on corners we take that away from the opposition. As we get more footballers and fewer players who just can't pass the ball at will, we will look better on the eye. With AVB though, it is almost certain that we will play based on the opposition in front of us. And that's called coaching and I'm all for it. COYS

peterballb

Well said Peter

BrooksySpurs

Folks, it's the business end of the schedule. If we are in CL next season, we will hope to be as busy, if not busier due to further cup progress. It's one game at a time and the League must take priority. AVB no doubt wants Europa success, and we should all agree that that is important. Just not as important as three points against West Ham. We probably need 7 wins to get top 4. 8 wins probably gets us 3rd. One game at a time. Every game is a cup final. Reality is, 3rd is in our own hands. COYS

peterballb

13 + consecutive seasons in the CL maybe

big cockeral

peterballb considering that Mancini only joined halfway through the season the damage was already done by mark Hughes . He`s a poor manager & let us in like Liverpool did .Nobody deserved 4th that season ,but you take what you can get .

Also Arsenal haven`t won anything because they`re paying for their stadium ,it hasn`t got long to go before they`re completely debt free & it`s paid for . 13 + consecutive seasons in the EPL working on a budget ? genius .Podolski ,Giroud & Cazorla were paid for by Van Persie ,that`s smart . How much have Arsenal spent in the last 10 years ? not as much as us

big cockeral

BigC, I disagree. City could easily have gotten 4th that season and Mancini cannot blame Hughes. He tried to run and gun with us and lost out. The following season he played us completely differently (played to not lose to us rather than play to win with their talents) and the results went the other way.

Arsenal will not be able to go much further as they have a much higher wage bill. Sure, they have resources we do not, but they cannot compete with the riches of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and United, any more than we can. They have to do it on the pitch. It's why CL for us is not as important as them finishing out of it. That takes 30M out of their budget and that is great for us. COYS

peterballb

bigc makes good points

tophobunty

Style without substance and passing without penetration isn't ideal , is it? The fact is now Spurs are playing in a style that depends on the opponents. And they're getting the results. How did manure play against Real Madrid? They change their game plan or tactics depending on their opponents and it gets them the results. One might argue that Barça have a definitive style of stylish football and still getting desired results. But that is down to the fact which is they're the best at their style of play. They have Messi, Xavi,Iniesta,Pedro ,Busquets etc. who are playing in Spanish national team and their passing football is second to none. So I believe what AVB is doing is needed for us to get success. Other than that we'll never be able to achieve anything.

Spursfan08

Except for Messi , he plays for Argentina. (Missed that one.) ;)

Spursfan08

we miss Modric as the cog in a very talented bunch, if you think part of our cog this year has been Dempsey playing deep off a front man then you see the obvious depth of the problem.

tophobunty

I agree topho, Modric was our Paul Scholes. At the moment Bale's brilliance is covering up a few problems we have at the moment. Chance creation and goals need to improve over the remaining months of the season.

Guyver

Dead right Guyver, if those two things dont improve we might finish 6th. I they do 3rd could be possible.

tophobunty

A balance. I want us to play with style when its on, but I want us to battle the sh** out of it when needs be. Both carry equal inspiration in my book.

SpursEagle

Modric is a big loss to us, just as Carrick and Berbatov were and Bale will be. Modric is suffering at Real because they are playing in a more advanced position, we got the best out of him pulling the strings in front of the back four. Back to the article, a bit of a fallacy that we played brilliant football last season, I can only think of two games where we were scintillating, Newcastle at home and Norwich away. And that's only because the opposition let us play, most didn't and we didn't. COYS.

ItalianYiddo

I think we saw more fluent football last season well the first half of last season compared to this season. However, I think this season it is all about the opposition and playing to beat them and digging deep. I do think we miss Modric's ability to pull the strings from deep and Dembele just doesn't do that he is a different type of player one that I am not that fond of as he loses the ball trying to take players on and he doesn't score and he doesn't pull the strings. I think we also miss VDV work rate well for 60 minutes and I think Ade has been poor this season so we have missed that up top.

I would prefer to see more stylish play more exciting play but I feel more confident this season. Last season a lot of games kept you on the edge of your seat an adrenalin rush this season it is a bit more 'stable' but less exciting. I still think we need three players to make us more stylish and more competitive. As for Holtby in CM not yet but looks very good but too soon to take such responsibility. Not sure what his best position will be and how he will fit in to our team. AVB will sort it and in the summer we will see changes again. In meantime we need to stay focused work hard and get CL.

thfan

agree totally Italian. I cant remember many other games when we played very very well last season.

tophobunty

Thfan, we have a weaker squad this year and a half season injury to one of our most important players in Sandro. But this year we have a manager, last season we didnt, I guess that's why things are about equal thus far. The difference in playing style is almost exclusively down to missing Modders, which has been a huge handicap for AVB over what Redknapp had at his disposal. Redknapp again is proving how "great" he is with a significant advantage over his rivals at the bottom in squad and spending power, he is failing to take those advantages due to his lack of ability.

tophobunty

You lot have either got very poor or very selective memories. Just off the top of my head there were the Liverpool, Villa and Bolton games to add to those already mentioned. We bossed games, we had plenty of chances, damn, we even scored plenty of goals. We, the fans were purring and we were the toast of every pundit and neutral, and rightly so. The team that everyone loved to watch. Redknapp had his faults, there's no denying that but whichever way you cut it, we played very well and were successful when he was manager; right from the beginning of his tenure to the very end.

darkenvai

dark no we didnt ("right from the gebinning to the very end") the facts just dont support your claim, are you choosing to forget to two huge collapses in back to back seasons. Argue facts not fiction please. Ref Liverpool, do you mean the game when they played with 10 men for most of it? yes we played very well that day first 15-20 mins, as we often did under Redknapp, but when we stopped playing well he could not influence it because he is not very good as his record over his career (factual) fully supports. He is his own witness!! Please keep it factual, Harry woild like that...........pmsl..........

tophobunty

To be fair, 1st half of last season, there were no articles or posts on this site criticising our style of play, though there were complaints about our Jekyll and hyde performances within games, which still exists today. In December 2011 Alex Ferguson stated we were the best in the country at the time and that we were title contenders. Then came January.... and Harry's trademark collapse.

Guyver

Topho, you might not have heard this before, but when Redknapp took over, we were bottom of the table. I can't remember how many games we'd played or how many points we had, because it's something that's been so little mentioned. Our final league position with Redknapp in charge was 4th, something that we might have achieved previously under his charge. Not sure, I'd have to check my facts. The Liverpool game was the one where they played much of it with 9 men. Sending off tend to happen when you get your jacksie slapped. I have to say that for a team that only played well for the first 20 mins, we did seem to score a lot of goals in the second half. Maybe that's all a fiction that I'm inventing. Maybe you'd care to check the facts on that. Wipe up the wee first, mate.

darkenvai

You do get the feeling that when things improve under AVB they will be more permanent than under Harry. You just knew under Harry that as soon as one of Bale or Lennon was injured the whole shape of the team looked awful. We'd end up all lop sided and do stupid things like put Modric of VDV on the right. Before that, we had Crouch and Harry never put a stop to the easy out tactic and let it go on for way too long. It was great for that period when we got 31 points from 33 though. That was a special time to be a Spurs fan. At the moment AVB is simply optimising what he has to work with. Give him time and let him develop and buy the players that match his philosophy. Then we'll start talking about the Spurs way again.

muttley

Not too happy with Pool's result. I hope they don't get the bit between their teeth and go on a run. They now have a better goal difference than us! I really hope goal difference does not come up and bite us at the end of the season

Big Ron

I just wonder if it was our supposed scintillating play that makes everyone forget that we went 121 corners before we scored 1. That we scored almost nothing from free kicks other than one by Walker where he indicated that he never practiced it. Go on, run around a bit. That's Harry. Fabulous coach. Hack IMO. Yes, Ramos, who actually won a trophy for Spurs unlike Harry did not get the players playing for him. Blame always falls on the coach. Fact is he had a completely revised lineup and had no real striker. Yes, Harry came in and finally sorted a mixed up defence and a keeper who was completely lost in the PL. Modric finally started playing well (he had been crap) and others like Corluka, Pav were not even around for the start of the season. Robinson, Tainio, Lee, Berbatov, Keane, Malbranque, Chimbonda, Kaboul were all starters that had been sold. Bentley, Gio and others were treading water and it seemed we were conceding penalties every match. Then after 6 games there were rumours Harry had been spoken to. All those facts made the task all the more difficult for Ramos.

We can all look at the recent history differently. IMO, Harry did well in his second season. Ramos was never going to get that squad relegated. So to me it was no shock that Harry didn't and since he was given almost 50M to sign players in January he certainly would have had no excuses (ironically much like this season with QPR). People forget that we dropped at least 21 points in games when we completely dominated in the first season we got 4th. In his third and fourth seasons he had arguably the third best starting XI and an even better squad in the PL, yet he never achieved even that. Harry will never over-achieve with a team. He is right. It's the players on the pitch. That's because as a coach he offers little. IMO, AVB is achieving better than our squad is on paper. It is clear we are working on set-pieces. It is clear Bale is practicing free kicks. It is clear that our team has developed some mental toughness. We are getting three points where previous seasons we would have, despite how beautiful it looked to some, thrown them away. We are a better team and squad. Our starting XI are not, player for player better. Modric has not been replaced. VDV has not yet been replaced (Holtby may well be that man). Vertonghen looks good, but he is not yet the leader King was. BAE, Parker, Kaboul, Sandro have all been out for extended periods of time and Adebayor has been poor. Yet, third is within our control. That's coaching. Something we have greatly lacked for 4 years. It should not be forgotten that Ramos and the lads won a cup by beating a superior team with superior tactics. Harry couldn't even beat a grossly inferior Pompey in the FA Cup semis. Shame he never saw the value in the squad. But then, that's Harry. I'm sure he'll help QPR get promoted next season. COYS

peterballb

Peter, whilst I don't take issue with your summation vis-a-vis AVB, for whom I have the utmost respect and the highest expectations, I think you over egg the Ramos pudding and are too stingy regarding Redknapp. Spurs were crap under Ramos long before the shake-up in the summer of 2008. In fact, the League Cup was the only decent thing that he did for us. Redknapp has been accused by many of throwing cups for the League. Well, Ramos could just as easily be accused of throwing the League for the League Cup. Redknapp took over the exact same players as Ramos and got them winning immediately. I don't think Redknapp is the only manager that could have saved us, but I'm convinced that Ramos didn't have it in him to turn it around.
As for the dropped points, I don't think anybody has forgotten them. That's pretty much the gist of the conversation. We played great looking dominant football, and yet we still ended up with no silverware and missed out on CL twice.
I fully concur that AVB has marshalled his resources expertly, but it's also worth noting that Redknapp also had to contend with multiple and lengthy injuries to our best players. It shouldn't be forgotten that, but for penalties, Redknapp would have won the League Cup against an even better team, and that both of Pompey's goals came from dodgy refereeing decisions, and that the only legitimate goal scored that day was by a Spurs player. As I said numerous times on here throughout Redknapp's tenure, he isn't a Ferguson or a Mourinho, but he is a damn sight better manager than people are prepared to give him credit for. At the end of the day, though, this argument was about whether we played scintillating football under Redknapp. The world and his wife thought so and said so. It's only on here that you find people who don't want to accept it. More's the pity.

darkenvai

It really isn't worth trying to compare HR and AVB. They are so dissimilar in many ways. As individuals they no doubt both respect each other. I had a read through of Wikis biographies. HR was still playing at an age when AVB was winning major titles. HR did an extraordinary job for Spurs, but the combination of events this time last year, and his response to them, did for him. We must feel eternally grateful that Chelsea were shafting AVB at much the same time. Much like Leeds did to Clough, although there is no way I'd compare AVB to Clough except in terms of success as managers at a young age. AVB is just 35 years old, quite astonishing what he has achieved. And talking of youth, take a look at the U21 side that beat Man U 3-1 a few days ago to go 6 points clear in their group. Some really talented players, OK most wont make it. Buta add to that Coulibaly, Townsend, Pritchard, Falque, Smith, Coulthirst.....and then add Holtby, Bale, Siggy, Walker, Caulker, no one over 23 years old. If we can pull of top 4 it will bode well for the future, but really the future looks good anyway. It is all a question of time, and AVB and the young players have plenty of it. I think AVB can become a legend at Spurs, I really do.

jacobslad

....and I forgot Sandro, he isn't 24 until mid March! One of our senior players now.

jacobslad

Dark, how did Ramos throw the league? We had no chance of winning the league but were much more competitive up to the point we won the cup which guaranteed Europa. We had no chance of CL. Top 6 or 7 was as good as it was going to get. Ramos played his entire squad and kids and essentially determined who in the organization fit his plans going forward and who didn't. IMO, he was incredibly wise in his use of the last 10 or so matches. Redknapp didn't save us because we were in no real danger. As you said, there were other managers who could have avoided relegation and I would suggest some who could have gotten us in to Europe.

AS for the scintillating football, he stayed out of the way of the players. That's about all I'll give him. There are managers out there who tinker too much. He wasn't one. But then, very few good managers are. While it can never be proven as he didn't get the chance, it is my opinion that Levy saved us from Harry where Bournemouth, West Ham, Southampton, Pompey failed. QPR remains to be seen. Again, IMO, the QPR team he inherited was good enough to avoid relegation without throwing 22 odd million more at the problem. Not our worry. Harry should rightly be judged by his career. At QPR, his win % is worse than Hughes, who I do not regard as a decent manager. In club football, Hughes also has a better winning percentage. Harry's record will be his judge. One more executed free kick or corner and we qualify for CL last season. Shame we didn't bother practicing. COYS

peterballb

It seems the debate has taken a different route. HR is a good manager . But he has a different style to AVB's. HR said it himself he didn't like tinkering with much tactics. He's a kind of manager that would get you close to whatever you deserve to achieve with your squad on paper. He doesn't have the ability to punch above his weight. If he was still our manager now , we would surely be behind Everton and would be fighting with Swansea or Poo for 6th or 7th. None of us would complain then as we'd still be without Modders or VDV (also Holtby). So clearly AVB is an upgrade . He rotates his squad and tactics well and when you do that you're likely to be without a definite style of football. Maybe Ramos screwed it up a bit much and Harry got us out of the mess. But my questión is would you prefer Arry & his stylish football (for half a season) or AVB with his style-less but effective football ? I know which one I'd choose.

Spursfan08

At the end of the day, history will always judge a Spurs manager by what he brings to the trophy cabinet. Since 2005/6 Man U and Chelsea have won 8 trophies a piece, Pool 2 , City 2 and us with a poultry one. I for one am sick of watching United, Chelsea and now City lift all the silverware in May. In fact i usually don't even watch now. Redknapp's achievement was he helped get us back to broadly where we were under Jol (with a far, far superior set of players) but he did nothing of historical note. I'm really hoping AVB is the man who can start delivering some much needed success for us.

StillRickyVilla

I think we do need the style, its part of why I love Spurs so much. We did indeed play sublime football under Harry, it was a joy to be at the games and see. This is in part down to a few extra quality players we have recently let go, but we will have more Spurs greats come into the team. This season I think we are developing as a side, looking at the areas we weren't so great at, and are improving. It might take a while but I think the change will benefit us as a team. You never know what lies ahead in football but under AVB I’m sure we will do all this and return to the great attacking side and play with style, like we have in previous seasons. Hopefully the hard work will mean we win more silverware! COYS

SpursOne2

StillRickyVilla, I agree with you on Enics pathetic trophy per season stats, the worst of any THFC owners in over half a century, despite being the richest owners in the clubs history by far... But on Harry he has to be given credit where credit's due. He did make the club a Champions League club for the first time in the clubs history! Which is a piece of THFC history! I know we made the old European cup back in 1960's, but that was a totally different knock out competition) If AVB makes the CL this season many will brand him a hero, so harry should get some respect and thanks for his little piece of THFC history, not to forget the beautiful football the team played last season!

pelebro

How? By using his superior tactics in the cup but stubbornly refusing to use them ever again! Bear in mind that Ramos started essentially the same players as Jol took to 5th, only at a further stage in their development. If he was worth his mustard, at the very least he should have had them playing somewhere near that level. He never did, and he was rightly pilloried for it.
Redknapp saved us from Ramos. We were in very real danger, not because we had a squad of poor players, but because even the best players poorly led or bereft of confidence will lose, and lose consistently to even much inferior talent when it is properly marshalled. As I have admitted on this, and countless previous occasions, there are better managers than Redknapp out there, and they probably could have done as good or better than him. But that shouldn't detract from what he achieved, because we were very much in the doodoo, and it wasn't just anyone who could have got us got us out of it.
As for Redknapp's light touch, as has been confirmed by the testimony of numerous players, he was interferingly remedial in some areas, and laissez-faire in others. You can scoff, but it doesn't take away the fact that we were celebrated for our play, the champagne football boys. At the end of the day, it's about ends, not means. We got good results and easy-on-the-eye football.
We didn't need saving from Harry, and neither did his previous clubs. They needed sensible and/or rich owners. Anybody, who leaves Redknapp in charge of the finances deserves any and everything they get. On the footballing front, you shouldn't sniff if your manager changes you from a perennial Championship team into a settled Premiership side. Equally, it's perverse to lambast a manager takes you from the bottom of the league to the top, and then keeps you thereabouts.
As for win% comparisons, that's apples and pears and you should know it. Redknapp has taken over a team already run into the ground by Hughes. He also has a better win% than Nicholson, Jol, Burkinshaw and Venables. So what?

darkenvai

Since when did we have a divine right to win trophies?

Spuds-U-Like

I think that AVB was brought in because he could juggle the two demands of silverware and attractive football. I said it earlier in the thread, but it bears saying again: we aren't playing pig football, it just isn't the swashbuckling, devil-may-care style that was so prominent last season and evident before. Although, it seems to have been missed a few of the sourpusses on here!
AVB came to England with a reputation for winning stuff (everything, in fact) and playing the now cliched, "attractive attacking" football. We've already become very hard to beat without becoming in any way, shape or form, a defensive team. Just need to see a little bit more of the attractive football, as it is very important. In club rugby, I support Saracens and, not unlike Spurs, they were for a very long time just outside the top echelons. Lately, however, they've become very successful, but by playing an attritional, territorial brand of rugby that is as interesting to watch as drying paint. Being a fan and winning has only so much appeal if you do it in an unattractive way. Bring on the champagne, AVB!

darkenvai

Spuds-U-Like writes... "Since when did we have a divine right to win trophies?" Classic Enic Hotspur LOSER fan club pr statement.

pelebro

Spuds, it's written in the Old Testament, book of Daniel ;-)

darkenvai

Playing the way Harry did was great, some of the best football in Europe, but at what cost, by the end of the season the team were exhausted, playing that type of football is unsustainable over the long run, if the eventual goal is to challenge for the league, you need to adopt a balanced and disciplined philosophy with a group of highly motivated players. This to me is the direction we're heading but lacking 1-2 key components. So yes, i miss last years style BUT deep down believe what we're doing know will serve us better going forward.

coys1717

I think Holtby has made a big difference to our play in the way he speeds up our passing. We've certainly played far more attractive football since he's been here, think he'll be a top signing.

wiltshirespur

Nice post darkenvai

SpursOne2

coys1717, please don't forget that Harry was the first coach in European football to have not been allowed into the Champions League after finishing in an official end of season qualifying position. As for Harry's team being exhausted last season, well despite fatigue, Harry secured 10 out 12 points in the last 4 games of the season, which secured the club only it's second top 4 position in Premiership history. Something we are all praying AVB can achieve again this season, or better, if Levy's shallow squad (in key areas) can stay free free from further injuries?

pelebro

"Playing the way Harry did was great, some of the best football in Europe, but at what cost, by the end of the season the team were exhausted, playing that type of football is unsustainable over the long run"

This has been said a few times in this thread, but nobody has explained why? How would playing attractive football be more energy sapping than playing long balls, or defensive. Didnt arsenal's invincibles play attractive football, or past Man Utd teams. We didnt play attractive football in 09/10 when it was long balls to Crouch for 90mins, but we still collapsed 2nd half of the season. Barking up the wrong tree imo.

Guyver

10/11 rather* You'd think playing an attractive passing style of football would involve less running, whilst making the opposition chase the ball more.

Guyver

I don't agree that our style of play was to answer. It's much less taxing to be in possession of the ball and to pass it around, than it is to chase a game or to defend. And, in any case, there was no 2nd half collapse in the 09/10 season. Certainly, as Peterballb has mentioned, our awfulness at set-pieces was partly to blame. A failure to unpark buses and brush aside weak teams was another . Both the players and the manager are to blame for that, for neither being good enough. Certainly, in 11/12, Redknapp's illness, his taxation shenanigans coming to a head, and the palaver over the England job were all partially to blame. It's hard to blame anyone but him for those.

darkenvai

Looks like our letter crossed in the post there, Guyver.

darkenvai

OK, another history lesson for the ignorant:

ENIC bought Spurs in 2001, our league position at the end of that season was 12th. In the 11 full seasons since, our League positions were as follows:

9th, 10th, 14th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 11th, 8th, 4th, 5th, 4th.

The trend is steadily upwards & we’re an established top 6 club, knocking on the door of establishing top 4 status, bar the blip of the Ramos period when we won the League Cup. For the previous 11 seasons it was, from ‘89/90:

3rd, 10th, 15th 8th, 15th 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 11th, 10th. The hallmark of a mid-table club.
It’s clear that under ENIC & Levy, we’ve had a steady rise & become more consistent in the League. That’s a more accurate barometer of how well the Club is doing overall, rather than trophies, which are a bonus bar the League Title. Basing a club’s management abilities on trophies alone is too simplistic & blinkered. It’s also interesting to note that at the end of the ‘00/’01 season, these teams that finished above us - Leeds (4th), Ipswich (5th), & Charlton (9th) are no longer in the Prem & Southampton (10th) & Newcastle (11th) were both relegated during the ENIC period. Teams close to us & below, Leicester City (13th) & Middleborough (14th) are also no longer in the Prem.

If that makes me an un-paid PR man for ENIC, I’m proud to be so. Better that, than a blinkered, ignorant “real fan”.

Spuds-U-Like

Sorry.

Spuds-U-Like

For the bold.

Spuds-U-Like

I would also guess that according to some "real fans", the Club's board between 1921- 1951 were pretty $h1te too, as that's the longest trophyless period in our history.

Spuds-U-Like

Pelebro/Spuds, it IS trophies that counts. Otherwise what is the point in any of it? What is the point in even playing sport? I think many on here and Spurs fans in general have a fixation that finishing "4th" is the ultimate goal. It is not - top 4 makes you competitive, it gives you money, enhanced commercial deals and a nice run-out in the CL (if we got through the play-offs in July). In short, it gives 'gives you a chance' to compete with the Citys, Man Us and Chelsea's for the major trophies. But it is still those trophies that we play the game for. If there is a chance of competing NOW - we do it. And we have the team now, CL or no CL, to do just that. Last weekend was painful watching everyone else play out the 5th round of the Cup. ENIC's trophy count is embarrassing, the worst since World War 2. it is just lucky that the Scum have forgotten how to win as well otherwise the last few years would have been even more painful. Lets hope AVB can rain some of his Porto gold dust on us. Its been an encouraging start.

StillRickyVilla

Guyver, You make a good point in your earlier post re 'how can it be energy sapping playing attracive footbal'. I touched upon that very thing in the article, i.e., the likes of Arsenal and currently, Barcelona are able to maintain it because they have more than ONE Gareth Bale in their squad. As I also wrote, it also requires more investment in talented players to fit the style. We have had neither!. The other point is that the fact that we didn't have the aquad in depth to maintain that level, our 'limited' talent got sussed out by the oppositions. So imo, it was a combination of lack to depth and fatigue that contributed to our tapering off. Under AVB we are playing each game tactically prepared and not the swashbuckling style that we got spoilt with. We are getting results without an overriding style. Makes it difficult for the teams to suss us out and we are able to change things to plan B. United do it all the time and it works in the PL. COYS!

Critical_Spur

Spuds, as you well know, the Tottenham Hotspur 'pre-Bill Nicholson' to the Tottenham Hotspur 'post-Bill Nicholson' are two very different things with very different expectations. I agree with you that ENIC have grown the club and this in turn has made us more competitive. The team we have now has more chance of winning trophies than the team of 2000 for instance. However 1 League Cup in 12 or whatever years is shocking. Would help if we could win an FA Cup semi-final - we've lost 6 in a row since 1991.

StillRickyVilla

I never said trophies were unimportant SRV, I just said that to base the performance of the Club's board on that single factor alone, is too simplistic. You, buddy, at least recognise the work done by ENIC to place the Club in it's strongest position since the Nicholson era to make trophy success a realistic, regular ambition, even though they might not have fully lived up to your expectations. Some blinkered, impatient idiots simply won't recognise this, & that is who the history lesson was aimed at, not proper fans like yourself mate.

Spuds-U-Like

Pelebro, as you well know we have finished "4th" in the league many many times since 1961. We spent most of the 1980's in the top 4 and finished 3rd in the early '90's. I agree with you that Harry finished with the highest league placing in the PL era, but then again, that was only 1 place higher than Jol achieved with a far, far superior team to Jol's. Plus he never won anything. In a THFC historical context his 'achievements' will be quickly forgotten, particularly if Villas Boas brought home the UEFA Cup this season for instance + another couple trophies in the next couple of years. Here's hoping anyway.

StillRickyVilla

I think a lot of our attacking ability came from the pace down the flanks under Harry, with over lapping fullbacks in some cases. That is a tiring method of attacking football, letting the ball do the work is what we seem to be trying to do know. Also despite getting 10 out 12 points from the last 4 games it was the 1 win in 9 that cost us champions league. Harry done what i believe the squad was capable of, it wasnt a surprise we finished 4th with the team we've got, (to me anyway). But we should be thinking beyond 4th and what can be achieved. AVB style of football should start bringing in consistent results across the entire season, hopefully anyway.

coys1717

Spuds, lets not get too ahead of ourselves over ENIC, yes we are in the strongest, most competitive position since the PL era began. But remember we were VERY competitive in both league and cups in the '70s and '80s and early '90s. As recent as 1991 we had the best midfielder in the league (Gazza) and the best striker in the league (Lineker). The equivalent in today's terms of having Van Persie and Rooney in our starting line-up! How we would be drooling then! But yes, this is certainly the best we have been in the PL era. We now need to prove it though.

StillRickyVilla

Yes, I know SRV, I just get p1$$ed off with the constant anti Levy unsubtantiated crap being posted & you're wasting your time trying to reason with pelebro, he's too entrenched in his simplistic anti-Levy/ENIC stance & clearly, stubborn pride prevents him from admitting he's not got it quite right. That's why he throws stupid accusations like ENIC loving losers & not being real fans at his detractors. He's too frightened of losing face & his eyes & ears are firmly closed

Spuds-U-Like

Dark. i refer you to my post commenting on your post almost immediately before, I now see your answer in which you chose to expand the time period historically back to whan Redknapp took over (not mentioned in your previous post which i commented on) to try to help your arguement one assumes. Not the most intelligent or honest approach, still if that's your way continue but its pointless. I am out of this one mate unless you want to stick to the time frame you started on and i replied on?

tophobunty

Critical_Spur, agree with what you say, but all the points you make regarding our collapse the last 2 seasons can be made for any number of playing styles. Martin O'Neils Aston villa sides had similar problems, small squad. Though we had a good squad last year, Harry didnt use it well, leading to an unchallenged, complacent 1st team and a demotivated 2nd string. I still don't see the correlation between attractive football and teams falling away 2nd half of the season. From what im seeing under AVB, we are generally playing a counter attacking style, unless playing against defensive sides, where we are forced to play through them. It's only in these situations where we look cumbersome. I don't think it's much more complex than that to be honest. Our game against Aston Villa this season was a perfect example of how we've played this season. 0-0 1st half, not playing very well as Villa sat deep. 2nd half Villa attacked us leaving gaps at the back for us to counter. End result 4-0.

Guyver

The replacement of Modric with Dembele has slowed the tempo of our play down. When did you last see Dembele receive the ball from a defender, turn and pick out Lennon or bale with a lovely diagonal ball, turning defence into attack before the opposition has chance to react?

Kes80

Topho, where is the ambiguity in my time frame? "we played very well and were successful when he was manager; right from the beginning of his tenure to the very end" Is crystal clear. Are you trying to suggest that I was talking about only 11/12, but have then shifted the goal posts, so to speak?

darkenvai

As enteraining as all this back biting is (little snap shoot of what June is going to be like), I think its a little unfair of the articel to suggest that Spurs are not as entertaining as they were under Harry. The lack of chances converted has meant that most of our games this season have been very entertaining, like a horror film is enteraining! You know when you are watching the action through your fingers and your heart is racing and every opposition cross in the last ten minutes brings you out in a cold sweat? Thats Entertainment! More to the point we are not the finished article as far as team structure is concerned. To argue who's fault that is at the current time is a little pointless. We can't change the team for another four months so lets suck it up. Every weekend that passes makes AVB position stronger and safer. As long as the good results keep rolling and our main competition keep fluffing their lines we will be in a very good place come the summer. The areas of the team that need addressing have been reduced and distilled down by AVB to the point where a very targeted and focused transfer list should see the team ready for the rigours of Champions league football next season! When Harry left us (or was fired) we needed a GK, CB, LB, CM, Wing cover, CAM, Striker x2. This into a squad which was already over subscribed with players. The upheaval that this kind of recruitment drive could have caused may have resulted in a season similar to QPRs! The fact that we are now fourth, 1 point behind third and our list of transfer requirements has now fallen to just a striker and possibly a winger is a major achievement The reduction in the squad size is the icing on the cake!

Slurms McKenzie

Our defence was a big problem last season. We let in a 16 goals in the 13 remaining games from the dreaded Arsenal defeat. Dawson was injured for most of the season so had to come back and regain form, I think he only played part of one of those games going into the last few. A 50/50 King although still class was not at his best and couldn’t do it all himself due to his knees, but was played throughout. Gallas helped, but again we only used him once, I think .Brad was cemented at the back. The defence was pretty much the first thing we sorted this summer thank god. This season we are without Kaboul (nearly back) but we have Dawson again, Caulker has stepped up and we have brought in the talented Vertonghen. Gallas has filled in and proved support when needed, plus his leadership. And of course Lloris and Brad to choose from between the sticks. Our back line seems to be in much better shape this season (touch wood). The flying wingers are the same as we used last season, that hasn’t changed. Center midfield has changed a lot, but we have more cover now and better quality in depth imo (Sandro is missed!). I don’t think we necessarily tired just because of our wingers. If it wasn’t for a combo of Ade, VDV and Defoe we would have finished outside of the top 4. Loads of factors really, lack of quality in depth and a shaky defence was the main culprits. We can’t really compare the 2 season until the end of this one though! If we learnt to grind out a few results, change a few of those draws into Victory’s then we will have come on as a team. Want us to always win in style though ha. COYS.

SpursOne2

StillRickyVilla, we have only made top 4 in the Premier League twice and that was with Harry! I am not in anyway stating that I regret AVB being the new THFC coach, I like the man and when my team score AVB punches his fist with joy, so I know he wants the best for our club! But we are currently 17 points behind the Premiership leaders! I don't blame AVB for this because like Harry, AVB can only do the best for our club with the tools the THFC board provide him. Exactly the same problem is occurring this season as Harry faced last season. A lack of quality in depth! For example no world class strikers, no players to rotate with Lennon and Bale, and if Parker gets injured it's back to Livermoore as the holder. You simply can't win the League being this light weight, which is totally down to Enic! Enic are also totally responsible for an estimated 35,000 loyal Spurs fans on the THFC season ticket waiting list. Enic have failed to provide them with seats! Of course you 100% correct that if we can win the Europa League this season and qualify for the CL next season AVB will have achieved more than Harry! Unfortunately we have to cross our fingers that this light weight squad can avoid further injuries. The successful clubs don't rely on luck of course, they build squads that can cope! Enic/Levy/Lewis/Ashcroft despite their vast wealth have failed to deliver what is required to win the League on the pitch and the stadium to house the vast Tottenham following off the pitch! THFC is just to big, for this small time Enic crew...

pelebro

Let's just do a Leeds United then, Sorted.

Spuds-U-Like

Spuds-U-Like, A Leeds United? Surely you don't want Leeds United to knock us out of the FA Cup again??? You Enic PR Police men who monitor this site are so funny... ;-)

pelebro

Great posts Dark and Guvyer

Ossie

You know what I mean, trying to turn it into something else shows the level of deliberate obfuscation in your pathetic attempts to defend the undefensible.

So, according to you, I'm not a real fan, I'm a paid up ENIC loving loser & now a ENIC PR Policeman. I could say that you're a fully paid up member of the antisemitic National Party, judging by your persistent slagging off of Levy, only it would be just as baseless & un-provable as your own childish accusations & assertions. I'm a lot, lot bigger than that.

Spuds-U-Like

Ah lads come-on cn ye not just e-mai each other and have this never ending pointless argument in private?

Slurms McKenzie

What a waste of electrons that would be Slurms. How do you get across to someone with their head buried deep in their arze? At least StillRickyVilla can discuss sensibly with proper facts & figures to back up his points. Pelebro simply gainsays the same old single issue statistical mantra, time & time again without anything to back it up with apart from stating the bleedin' obvious. Sorry mate, I won't sit back & let his vitriolic b0ll0x pass without a response. I suppose mate, you could say I should take the view that he's just an immature idiot wasting his time trying to wind us up & ignore him, I couldn't argue against that.

Spuds-U-Like

Pelebro, i fully acknowledge that Harry achieved the highest league position for Spurs in the PL era. I said that myself. But your argument that Harry was the first manager since 1961 to get us in to the Euro Cup/CL is pretty meaningless. This is more to do with UEFA changing the Euro Cup/CL qualification rules than any historical Harry achievement. If the 'top 4' qualification rule had been in place since 1961 we would have qualified about 20 times before Redknapp got the job!! Football did exist before the PL era (although if you watch Sky Sports you wouldn't think so).

StillRickyVilla

Yes Spuds but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome! ;-)

Slurms McKenzie

peelbro alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how many rooms (in the real world) has this humanoid cleared out by saying the same thing 974000 times consecutively? PLEASE WE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

tophobunty

What can I say Slurms? Touche mate!

Humanoid? Being a bit generous there topho bud. The thing is, we might understand, but does he?

Spuds-U-Like

Spuds if he doesn't understand, its Levy/ENICs fault!

Slurms McKenzie

Spot on Slurms, it's his default setting & he's hung up on it. Guess he needs rebooting!

Spuds-U-Like

Well at least one good booting Spuds! If that doesn't work we could try re-booting!

Slurms McKenzie

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