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Tough on Spurs! But...

Despite the individual errors, can we also question AVB's selection or was it a sign of things to come?

No manager can legislate for individual mistakes, and you assume they alone were the main reason why Tottenham didn't pick up the points at Anfield yesterday and based on that, no blame can be directed at our manager, who aside from the scoreline, will surely have been quite pleased with the general performance, even though one or two individuals didn't exactly shine, whilst we also know he was without a few good players and also options from the bench to really make a tactical difference.

Upon seeing the Spurs side, it looked a little devoid of creativity in the middle and built more to counter Liverpool. as opposed to looking to take the game to them. After Suarez scored his excellently taken goal, it appeared that I was right and I was talking of an early substitution to put right the first half deficiencies. Before the game, I assumed that Lewis Holtby would have been the man to replace the injured Lennon in the starting XI, however I was also slightly worried that he hadn't quite looked his self in the last game or two, and perhaps was lacking that early zip or a bit of confidence. Without Clint Dempsey or even Emmanuel Adebayor, playing safe, with Parker, Livermore and Dembele, might have been his best and safest option, and with the equaliser on the stroke of half time, and then going into a 2-1 lead, could anyone argue that AVB had got his selection wrong?

For some time, it has crossed my mind, that the quality and form of Bale and Lennon, has to a degree forced AVB's hand in going with a 4-2-3-1, as opposed to 4-3-3, something that many people assumed would have been our default setting. Though we have been 'quite' successful in adapting Gareth Bale into a more central and more versatile player, Lennon probably still struggles to be anything more than a very good winger, whether played on the right or left. To his credit, his form and work-rate make him a vital member of the team, but is it his rigidity and lack of ability to strike fear into opposing keepers, that make us stick with a compromise formation, as well as perhaps not yet securing that lock picking play-maker, such as Moutinho or similar?

The fact that we are clearly developing nicely and doing very well in the Prem and Europa league, means that we have ignored the formation issue, because everything is running smoothly, but was yesterdays selection, a small hint at where AVB's medium - long term intentions lie? I don't really like getting too carried away with formations, because we all know that one player playing higher or lower, can alter a perceived team shape, but yesterday, I again wondered, if the selection was a toe in the water attempt at moving towards his long term plan and having his cannot drop wide man injured, made for an ideal opportunity, even if the players at his disposal where not quite his dream central three?

Perhaps in time, Holtby or even Tom Carroll, who again impressed me in his few minutes cameo, could be a very good option to work alongside, Parker/Sandro and Dembele, though there remains for me a feeling that we might need to bring in that play-making CM, over already having him at the club. Holtby, certainly has the bite and energy to play deeper and I wonder if that is where AVB and even the player himself, see his future, once he has bedded into the side. Once again we read that Christian Eriksen is a summer target and he might be well suited to the more offensive role, with would allow Holtby to play deeper, though with the uncertainty over Bale's future, can we take too much for granted?

Yesterday, may well have been a case of countering the opposition with limited resources, but I do question whether we will soon see the next stage in our development implemented in the summer. Some will suggest that Dembele was deployed on the right, but does anyone really see his place as being anything other than being one of a centrally based two or three in the future. Sandro and Dembele, make for a very useful pairing and also a great basis for a three, should that be something on AVB's mind. If that is his longer term aim, I do worry slightly for Lennon as a starter in the future. Sure he is a very good and influential player, but is his a case of adapt or die in the future of Spurs? This season he has been a Europa captain and you feel that AVB likes him for what he brings to the team, and perhaps that is why he is still playing and we are still evolving the system, but I do feel that we are still some way to go with the Villas-Boas revolution, and perhaps we got a small glimpse of his intentions yesterday...




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Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday March 11 2013

Time: 9:16AM

Your Comments

You maybe right Ox. gutted we lost!!
MalaysiaSpur
Gutted!!!!!
olliewebb
I still feel numb as losing a game due to individual errors for the last two goals. aside from those, we were much the better side in my opinion
oxfordspur
I think that he should of played Bale on the left, Sigurdsson on the right, Holtby behind Defoe and kept the central pairing of Dembele and Parker. I cannot understand why he broke up our excellent central midfield? Livermore is just awful, it was him played Walker into that isolated position which led to the back pass. Why play Livermore in such a huge game. The mistakes weren't his fault, but his team selection was poor yesterday, because he removed the width from our game. If he can't see that, then he has a problem. Spurs need width.
Fanman
I thought Holtby was off his game yesterday or is it just me?
MalaysiaSpur
I agree Ox, we totally dominated in the 2nd half until that back-pass. Keep replaying it in my head....
MalaysiaSpur
MalaysiaSpur, Holtby came in on the 90 didn't he? Also AVB brought him in for Ekottu. That is just strange.
Fanman
Is it me or does anyone else think that Benny wasn't at the top of his game?
MalaysiaSpur
You're right Fanman, he didn't have much time that's for sure
MalaysiaSpur
I didn't see the game but could someone confirm something. At 2-1 did we have chances to increase the lead but selfishness took over from team play?
yiddyboy
Its easy for AVB to pick the best available 11, but yesterday he had to use his brain and pick an 11 without our star winger. Instead of trying to keep the width and balance, he brought in a sub-par midfielder and broke-up a great pairing in the middle. He couldn't anicipate those errors though, and he is stuck with Defoe. I'm not blaming him for the loss yesterday, but I think that his team selection was poor. Bale can still play on the left.
Fanman
Yiddyboy we did have chances to extend the lead for sure. not so sure it was down to selfishness tbh
MalaysiaSpur
One loss doesn't equal a disaster....as one win doesn't equal a triumph. THUS...in the words of "JONESEY"....."DON'T PANIC....DON'T PANIC" !!....Next 2 games are very important. They will show up the men from the boys !!
82spursdebut
Thanks MalaysiaSpur - It's only I read on twitter during the game that both Defoe and Siggy had chances where the better option was to pass and almost a certain goal. My point is people are criticizing Lloris/Walker for second goal and BAE for penalty. Maybe rightly so, but if the attacking players are not passing to guarantee a TEAM goal in place for individual achievement then in my book these guys are equally to blame than a defensive error!!
yiddyboy
You're right Yiddyboy and I'm sure more people will have a go at Walker and Benny but we did have chances to close the game out and maybe it just wasn't our night. I hope the lads pick themselves up and get the result in Milan so we're back on track for the Fulham game
MalaysiaSpur
yiddyboy, Sigurdsson had a chance to square it to Defoe in the box, but he chose to shoot and the keeper parried it onto the post. Defoe got behind Liverpool at a tight angle with runners getting into the box, but chose to shoot straight at the keeper. Siggy had a great chance in the first half, but put it wide that wasn't selfish though. Bale had a few shots when he could of passed and Defoe kept trying to make space to shoot. So, I would say yes, we have become selfish up-front. Historically we are all about team play. Defoe and Bale are both very selfish.
Fanman
yiddyboy, I agree with you. They are just as much to blame.
Fanman
You can’t blame AVB, yeah it wasn’t the line up we expected but he didn’t have much choice. Like I angrily posted yesterday, it’s the same players that are costing us every game, and im not talking about walker. It was a very poor decision and a poor ball back to Lloris but like AVB said these things happen. I’m talking about BAE, Defoe and parker. Livermoore is poor, and 5th choice CM so what can we expect, but the sloppy passing from parker, and the sheer reluctance to get involved from either Ekotto or Defoe is damaging us. I will go as far to say that I bet a left back is fort on AVB’s summer wish list as BAE just doesn’t look like he gives a $hit anymore

Looking at the first goal, yeah Lloris could have done better but we cant keep relying on him to bail us out every game. There is always a suicidal ball back to him which up until now he has managed to deal with, but we were playing with fire and we finally got burned. Loosing at Anfield isn’t something to cry about, but throwing the game away is. I just hope we bounce back and learn. Im not overreacting to the defeat, but FFS we need to buy some players in the summer. We have rightly got rid of the “dead wood” but we are so thin on the ground. I just hope someone is stupid enough to buy Adebayor or Defoe as we need a minimum of two new strikers.
hudderspur
Walker's back pass was shocking though. As was Benny's challenge on Suarez. Let's not talk about Defoe's performance, the less said there the better. I feel sorry for AVB being stuck with him.
Fanman
Isn't it nice to be able to fantasize that our team selections would have been better than our highly paid and respected coach who also enjoys the advantage of seeing the players train. His formation worked well ffs and we should have won the match.
Love totty
yiddyboy, I agree with you, but we can never feel that conseeding three goals is good. we have been excellent at the back in recent months and that makes yesterday so frustrating, but also to a degree acceptable, as it is so rare. to have to score three or four away to get 3 points is never what a manager wants to have happen
oxfordspur
hudderspur, I thought that Parker had a decent game. He does seem to misplace a few passes, but he works so hard. Right now I would say that he's our most important player, and his form has picked up. You're the first person I've seen criticise him. I agree with everything else you say though.
Fanman
In fact im still seething! I cannot belive how useless Defoe is, he would be first out the door in the summer. Once again he scores a few goals early season and everyone gets thier Knob out! He just isnt good enough! Imagine if we ahd a striker like Suarez at our club!! We would honestly be challanging for the title.
hudderspur
I can certainly see why AVB is not using Holtby. He is too lightweight for the Prem. He'll improve I'm sure as the skills are there but needs toughening up first.
Love totty
Agree on Parker, Fanman. His work rate and tackling more than compensate for creativity. He was awesome against Inter.
Love totty
oxfordspur, exactly.
Fanman
Most people are more annoyed by the fact that it was loserppol that we lost to, if you look at what some of their fans are writing dear lord, we beat spurs so now we can catch third, a joke beyond belief considering a few games ago they wanted their manager sacked. Anyway who cares, we deserved to get something from that game and i doubt it will impact on morale for the next few games. Should play 4-6-0 as a strikers are beyond woeful
spursnoob
We are all disappointed. But yesterday, the game plan worked very well. Spurs Increasingly in control. Ought to have been 1-3 or even 1-4 before the individual errors cost the game.
Even the winning goal was caused by a moderate shoulder charge being capitalised on by Suarez. The penalty taker, could arguably been sent off earlier.
All in all a decent performance, ruined by a couple of largely unforced errors.
If you didn't see Match of the Day last night; try to do so. The sequence put together showing Suarez, dishing out all sorts of sly kicks, etc. was long overdue.
Hotspur 1882
versus arsenal...we were loseing the midfield battle.....till Avb asked Siggy' to come inside a bit more and leave lennon to provide the width. That small change did the trick......and continued to work versus Inter Milan. Thus, with lennon out....i find it stange that Avb chose to split and change this system, that had worked.....i.e...siggy,dembele,parker........lennon I would have thought with Townsend not present.......that the next best option would have been to MOVE Walker to right midfield for the width..and bring in Naughton to Right back.....thus keeping what had previously worked versus arsenal and inter...i.e...siggy, dembele, parker.......Lennon (walker !!??) BUT....BUT......BUT..........NO BUTTS !?...............Not the time to panic though. Bring on Inter and Fulham and let's see the response to this defeat.
82spursdebut
spursnoo
Their fans and players really are getting carried away.
Once in a while a vastly superior team will lose to their inferiors. That is all that happened yesterday. They are understandably on a high. Just as say, Luton would be if they beat Chelsea.
Hotspur 1882
We can blame AVB, not fully but he’s the manager and we lost. Fanamn has made a few very good points about other options we had with regards to the line-up, so he did have choices. Others are highlighting individual mistakes from players. You also have to credit Liverpool and their players for taking their chances! Anything we can do to learn from this one needs to be done and ready in time for Fulham. COYS.
SpursOne2
Sorry Fanman
SpursOne2
How can any fair minded person suggest Suarez for any kind of award? Wonderful role model!
Hotspur 1882
I thought....Livermore provided nothing...and that moving dembele to the right of the 3 midfield...to be a mistake and lead to some unforced errors.
82spursdebut
Fanman – Its not the tackling part of parkers game that is poor, that part he does well. But the way we play at the moment is mostly through the middle, and he needs more to his game than sticking a boot in. Every time he gets on the ball he just stops the momentum of our play. Far far too many 6 foot passes to our back line who then get closed down and have to hoof it.
hudderspur
Love totty, agreed.
Fanman
I feel this was an accident waiting to happen.The Spurs coaching staff seem to be encouraging passes back to Loris whenever there is a hint of danger,on the assumption that he is quick enough to get the ball.Oh dear,first Walker then Defoe obligingly pass the ball into our area for the opposition to enjoy.So we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.Please ,no more back passes! Hudderspur,Harry could have signed Suarez,but said he was after a different type of striker,duh!
Greavesaboveall
agree with spursnoob and 1882. as much as it sticks in the throat to lose a game like that, the AVB game plan was working and we should have put the game away earlier. I'm losing patience with Benny as he's either too casual, lost it or whatever but I don't sense he's working as hard as he can or should for the team. If we can get a result at Milan we should be back on track but I must admit, I'm a bot worried with Bale & possibly Lennon out. COYS!!
MalaysiaSpur
I think that the game was too big for that inexperienced referee yesterday. Gerrard should have receieved at least one yellow. His could on Bale poor, and he could catch Parker (yes Parker has pace!) so he stopped him by fouling him. That is a standard yellow. I don't think that an experienced referee would of given the penalty to Suarez, because it was a shoulder charge and Suarez dived. Bale was shoulder charged earlier in the game and got nothing. The ref was a homer.
Fanman
SpursOne2, no problem.
Fanman
@ Greavesaboveall, nothing wrong with encouraging the team to use Lloris as an extra and viable option, but as with anything the pass has to be good enough. walkers was ill advised because it wasnt really on and also poorly executed, leaving Lloris in deep trouble.
oxfordspur
The game plan didn't work...cos' we conceded 3 goals and scored 2. Avb...was quite clever, in post match interview, to deflect possible criticism of his team selections and tactics....by pointing out the "miss" by siggy' to make it 3-1..............but personally i thought it wasn't that clear cut a miss. BUT perhaps siggy' was deserving of criticism...partly due that effort and partly due to the poor effort in the first half. Bring on Inter...and Fulham.....we can get 2 good results and put this defeat to bed.
82spursdebut
I can see Siggy becoming an important player for us. He is strong, tall, works hard, can see a pass and can shoot. He's been unlucky now twice on Merseyside. With confidence he will blossom.
Love totty
Come on fella!!! All this "costing us every game" bull*****e is stupid!!! We've just been on the best run of our Premiership careers, what's costing us mean exactly? If them being crap is costing us resulting in us winning most of our games I hope they stay crap for a long time!!!
olliewebb
hudderspur, I disagree. I think that there is a lot more to Parker than putting his foot in. His forward runs are good and he has great energy. He passes backwards at times, but most players do. He can turn on the ball and drive forward. He and Dembele keep us ticking over at the moment and get the attacks going. Without Parker, we have a massive hole that cannot be filled by anyone else in the squad. Livermore and Huddlestone combined don't have his energy or his pace strangely.
Fanman
Hudders,agree Loris was put in an impossible position and not to blame. I guess I'm old school and believe ,if you are in trouble hoof it into touch!Leave the clever stuff to Barca.
Greavesaboveall
Wow, auto correct screwed up one my posts!
Fanman
I thought...gerrard should have been booked for the clever challenge on Siggy', in the first half....he fooled the ref' there. But i did think it was a penalty and no blame to attached to Benni', for conceding. He did his best to be clever, alas.... to no avail.
82spursdebut
Greavesaboveall, that's what I've been thinking. Walker was squeezed in so why didn't he just put it into touch of hoof the best that he could away from goal? That back pass was just never on.
Fanman
Siggy' is a important player for spurs....a important squad player, for the present. Townsend...is appx' 2 years younger...........I'd like to see spurs sign 2 or 3 players in the summer. First on my list would be "Son"..of HamBurger".....i'd relish that signing.
82spursdebut
just tired, e.g. bale. 3 games in 7 days and none of which is easy. 2 more to go for next 7 days.
SpursWho
Love totty, agreed on Siggy. He's improving and making himself a key player for us. If only his shooting was a touch more accurate.
Fanman
I don't think that I can be accused of being slow to criticise AVB selections when they patently cost us a game like at Leeds. Or EL group matches where we scraped draws. But this performance was generally good. With Siggy and Jake we bottled up the MF and restricted a potent attacking force on their turf. We easily won the stats comparison but suffered from individual mistakes. It happens.
Love totty
parker is still good. defoe is just not made for physical teams...
SpursWho
livermore wasn't at his best either, too many mispasses but overshone by poor kyle...
SpursWho
I think Andre got it spot on yesterday, playing Parker and Livermore practically destroyed the space between Defence and Attack that Suarez thrives off. It forced Rodgers into a change of tactic.
Tactically Challenge
Fanman
Good call on Parker. One of our most effective players and a true role model.
Hotspur 1882
Great article, just been arguing with my mate about Spurs' lack of creativity. Honestly, I can't stress enough how much weaker we look without Lennon, plus I'm enjoying Bale up front as much as everyone else, but he needs to go back to the wings at time's, he was hugely ineffective yesterday, we needed him out wide to stretch them --- if hes to be considered world class (i.e like ronaldo) he needs to start bullying defenders in the same way; working out who's the weak link and exploiting it, seems to be getting a little goal hungry.
oi.you.there
I had this one down for a draw so now my Xmas prediction is 71 points. However I'm gaining confidence that we will get something from the Chelsea and City games to improve on that. COYS.
Love totty
SpursWho, we definitely need to rest some key players. At least Bale will get a rest, Parker and Dembele need a rest too. Walker needs to be dropped and BAE, well what can we do with him? He has to play, as does Defoe...
Fanman
yes it was a gutting way to lose, but really did anybody expect to win up there? Liverpool are in their best form of the season and although we are flying we were due one sometime. If you had said 6 points from our last 3 games I would have bitten your hand off, so fear not. As alot of people have been saying this top 4 thing will come down to one or two points right up till the last game of the season. Forget all this 2nd or 3rd nonsense. Its 4th we are going for and its a 50/50 call if we can make it or not. But a defeat away to liverpool is not a disaster. Have to win home to Fulham though.
jimmy-yid
love totty, i had us down at 69 points, one point clear from the goons in 5th on the bbc predictor. Its so tight though its scary.
jimmy-yid
To me it looked liked AVB set the team up to get at least a point yesterday, we found ourselves with almost all three...but unfortunately two mistakes cost us the game. We move on. COYS!
JayCoys
The problem I see is that when we have the ball in the last 1/4, we are too crowded and disorganised, with Defoe, Bale, and advance midfielders getting in each others way. Selfishness of individuals doen't help either. At least with Ade he (rightly or wrongly) doesn't create a melee with bodies everywhere! Still, we WILL pick ourselves up. Recharge batteries and move on. May be AVB should use the Inter game to iron out some niggling issues. I would certainly consider giving Carrol a start. COYS!
Critical_Spur
Get Naughton back in the team, at left back what did he do wrong to deserve to be dropped??
oi.you.there
It's hard to take when we have been in such not good, but great form of late, with the game on 2-1 to us we had total control. In the cold light of day why did Walker hit a 40yd back pass? Only he know's, when he had pool players in front of him, which an old head would have belted the ball at them to get a throw. Defoe one it was poor chest control and second he done something very rare he passed the ball, yes passed the ball, back into his own penalty area, then Benny does one of those shoulder charges, only he picked the wrong player, who goes down if the mind changes Suarez. Talk about hit the self distruct button. I don't think Jake did a lot wrong yesterday, then again he never did a lot right either and it was his first full game, his a lower prem league player at best, just a stop gap for the last 3mins as sub, balance goes out of the window when we don't have Lennon, to late to consider Naughton/Walker together down the right, games over. Re-group get this Milan game put to bed and hope we move into the next round, then restore winning ways vs Fulham on sunday.
spu 4 life
I agree that the tactics worked. It actually was a very good performance against a team that had a lot of danger about them. The biggest problem is that whilst we have the flying wingers, Liverpool have the flying wing-backs. With Lennon out, and Bale naturally roaming, it meant that we were struggling on the flanks. Enrique made the first goal brilliantly by bringing ball to box, and then threading in Suarez. Walker panicked on his flank, and did the silly back pass for their second. Lennon would have kept Enrique busy. Despite that, we were the better team. You cannot be upset at losing away to Liverpool...it is just the manner that is hard to take. But I am buoyed by the level of performance, which was better than a lot of our wins this season. Nothing wrong really...but the fact we missed Lennon so much shows that we did not assemble a rounded squad for the season in August. But we have enough to get by. Roll on Fulham.
TonyRich
wind not mind
spu 4 life
Oh and Naughton to be given a run too. COYS!
Critical_Spur
I did raise my eyebrows at the team selection and formation, but the fact is that team and formation got us winning 2-1, at which point we were not only stifling them, but attacking and pinning them back attacking through the middle and the flanks. I think Dembele was played on the right to stifle ****inho - which (apart from the 1st goal) he did - the reason Rogers took him off. Apart from the 2 mistakes we were the better team. It is true that Walker and Livermore are often at fault for some mistakes that lead to goals (usually un-necessary fouls around the box), but both are young, so I'm prepared to cut them a bit more slack for the time being. Benny's guilty too in this regard, but overall makes up for it when he's on song. Jermaine just got unlucky - that's football. It wasn't the team I'd have chosen, but AVB's not doing so bad lol, so gotta trust his judgement. I do wish we had more striking options.
DocHotspurs
Plus - great to score from set pieces, yesterday. Also would like to see more one-touch passing, crossing and shooting. Too many people running on to far with the ball and giving away possession.
DocHotspurs
You cant account for individual errors, & you have to accept that they will be made occasionally, hopefully rarely. Having said that, Liverpool were lucky not to of picked up a fair few more cards. Good as Suarez is, that slimey lil' **** needs to be punished for his behavior on the pitch yesterday & for pretty much every week prior! The video evidence is there, the stupid acts of petulance & sly kicks at every player within touching distance. Disgraceful player, & one I detest, regardless of my respect for his footballing ability.
Mex_yiddo
Fanman – Guess we will have to agree to disagree mate. I know parker puts the effort in but I just don’t see an end product. Oi.you.there – 100% agree with the Naughton shout. BAE is poor at the moment and Naughton didn’t do anything to get dropped, but BAE is obviously considered first choice. Boy what would I give for an on form Danny Rose right about now!! My only criticism of AVB is the amount of players he has sent out on loan. We had NO fit strikers but he sent Kane out on loan, no cover for the flanks but sent out Townsend. Why put Coulthirst on the bench if he had no intention of playing him?? It would be impossible for Coulthirst to have played any worse than Defoe. I would have brought him off at 55mins. Like I say hate to criticise but I just didn’t get that. My worry is that AVB just doesn’t see how utterly $hit Defoe is, but deep down I think he does, he just hasn’t got any other senior options.
hudderspur
agree with that Doc....I did say before the Inter game that we should rest/protect Lennon for the Pool game imo that was a more of a mistake by AVB than the team selection, which although not one I would have selected did seem to be able to beat Pool...we could easily have come away 3-1 winners...that's footy!
shedboy2
Livermore gives the ball away way to much !!! is it me or do we always lose with him when his in the team? Holtby should of started yesterday with Dembele in the middle, gutted on this result :/
LOcE1980
Plus - great to score from set pieces, yesterday. Also would like to see more one-touch passing, crossing and shooting. Too many people running on to far with the ball and giving away possession.
DocHotspurs
I am gutted about that loss. Livermore should never play for Spurs again, he is absolute pants. He however is not our problem, our problem, as we all know, is that we don't have any strikers worth playing - I say worth playing being even if that Togolese waste of space was fit he should not even make the bench, and Defoe should make the bench but not the starting 11. My Levy has placed us in this position, we have not had strikers worth fielding since '09, and I'm beginning to give up hope that it'll ever change. Lloris was also absolute rubbish yesterday but I'll forgive him as he is usually excellent - Livermore though is never excellent, he is always rubbish.
Cape Town Spurs
Dembele out wide was a slightly strange one as he & Parker (who i thought had another very good game, he has such an incredible engine & is an example to any young players out there, proper gent too) work very well together & that combo has been working well for us. IMO we should of played Siggy & Bale either side with Holtby behind Defoe (who really must learn to pass the F-ing ball for the TEAM). Without Lennons pace to pen back his full back & his excellent workrate we looked completely unbalanced. Kyles backpass was utterly ridiculous, it was never on & shouldnt of been attempted put it out & get the shape back or lump it long & then get the shape back & start again, Hugo could of got a better connection on the ball to clear the danger but he shouldn't of been put under that pressure in the first place. Bennys challenge on Suarez was very clumsy & his overall performance was quite poor, if you give Suarez any excuse to go down in the box he will take it as he is the most disgusting cheat i've ever seen on a football field. It is a particularly bitter defeat to swallow yesterday but we will move on & still achieve our ultimate seasons' goal. COYS!!!!!
jesusthedevil
i don't think this level of criticism is fair to the team or AVB.we lost this game because of silly mistakes and due to the fact that some of our front players weren't passing to each other.like i said in a previous post,its not like they turned us inside out or we played badly.....as for the selfishness in front of goal,bale and defoe has been doing this all season.can ade really be blamed for looking a bit despondent when they aren't passing to him?as for siggy yesterday,maybe after the scum game he was told to shoot.one of his shots just skimmed the bar.i just wish that him and bale would just look up more and see what the BEST option is.....defoe will never pass because,generally speaking,he just doesn't........anyway,lets put this down to a silly day at the office,wipe our mouths and get back to winning ways.....COYS!(p.s.why can't i do paragraphs on here?)
g. roberts testes
The trouble with Livermore is he's neither here nor there, he pretty average at everything and a master of nothing, the coaching staff should be looking at him and trying to develop him into a specific position for his size he should be a decent defensive ball winner. Defoe needs to take a step back concentrate on doing the simple things, can you really blame sig for not passing yesterday, with the way that ball sat up, would you trust Defoe a guy who's been spooning everything thats arrived at his feet or your own ability as a decent finisher? As for the game I wasnt expecting anything, and its unfortunate how we lost the game but a statesman as to how far we have come. We played Thurs and dominated after a NLD and still controlled most of the game against Liverpool. Hopefully this is a blip and we can return to winning ways with our next fixture. COYS
coys1717
Gotta say I'm not feeling the hate for our players...Defoe tried to clear- it was a mistake...and he and Bale can't play centrally together...they are both too greedy but digging out a shot is what actually wins you games! Walker does a great job on the right but that back pass was crap...he'll learn from that...Naughton should be used more though to keep him on his toes.. Livermore is a good DM not our best but he's good, needs creativity alongside...ditto Parker...we have good players....just a shame we didn't buy the two players we needed....Striker and creative/pacy mid...
shedboy2
If we had decent strikers, I think we'd be competing for the league. Can you imagine having a striker that scores 25 goals a season? I think that the finger has to be pointed at Levy for not ensuring that we have decent strikers. Although no one could of anticipated that Ade would be so poor and injury prone this season.
Fanman
Still annoyed after yesterday. Up until the Walker back pass we were playing well and bossing the game. Errors by players happen all the time, mistimed tackles, poor marking etc but to hand the opposition a gold plated opportunity is inexcusable at this level. And to do it twice in 20 minutes, words fail me. I like Walker but his error count is rising. The unnecessary foul he committed against Lyon that led to the goal is but one. It's such a pity that a good overall team peformance was marred by two individual errors. Fortunately, I have a little trip to Milan this week to get over Sunday. I did't think it was going to be a foregone conclusion before yesterday. Now I think the nature of the defeat may unsettle our defence. An early Inter would goal certainly bring the jitters back.
ParkLaneBB
The trouble with Livermore is he's neither here nor there, he pretty average at everything and a master of nothing, the coaching staff should be looking at him and trying to develop him into a specific position for his size he should be a decent defensive ball winner. Defoe needs to take a step back concentrate on doing the simple things, can you really blame sig for not passing yesterday, with the way that ball sat up, would you trust Defoe a guy who's been spooning everything thats arrived at his feet or your own ability as a decent finisher? As for the game I wasnt expecting anything, and its unfortunate how we lost the game but a statesman as to how far we have come. We played Thurs and dominated after a NLD and still controlled most of the game against Liverpool. Hopefully this is a blip and we can return to winning ways with our next fixture. COYS
coys1717
jesusthedevil, agreed. Playing Bale and Siggy out wide, with Holtby through the middle and Dembele with Parker in centre-midfield, seems the most logical thing to do. I am still baffled at Dembele out wide and Livermore in the middle. What has Livermore done to earn a place starting in central-midfield in such a huge game? Has Bale lost the ability to play out wide? I wish AVB would explain the reasoning behind his team selection. Didn't Abramovich have a word with him about team selection?
Fanman
Fanman - I thought that it was too risky to sign Ade . I was right. I did not fall for it. I rather would spend the money on someone fresh. I blame AVB for either being happy with our striker selection at the start of the season, of for failing to demand better. We spent plenty of cash - on stuff that was less urgent. LLoris is good, but not as urgent. Or he fell for the Leandro stuff, which is naivity - he is still a young and inexperienced manager. Any how, we have a good enough squad to get by. If you look on the bright side, if we are currently good enough to get 3rd or 4th with this squad and strikeforce, then adding one or two good strikers will make us very impressive next season. shedboy2 - i wish that Walker will learn from it, but I doubt it.... He has done too many mistakes all season. He is not learning. It is a simple tweak... learn from the master - Ledley... If too risky, kick the ball out and regroup. There are times to try to keep the ball, and there are times when you shouldn't.
TonyRich
Fanman - no point in playing Bale on left when a) no Lennon - i.e. Bale would be doubled up and out of game. b) Defoe up front. Defoe is hardly going to score with a header, and he NEVER gets on the end of Bale crosses anyway. Bale has shown lately that he is harder to keep quiet in the centre and roaming.
TonyRich
shedboy2, wow. You're forgiving. I'm feeling quite a bit of hate towards Defoe and Walker right now. Walker can be forgiven because of his age, he's been good on the right and was getting some form back, but what excuses does Defoe have for being total rubbish? I can't bear to watch him anymore, unless he's scoring its like we're playing with 10 men. Harry had the right idea benching him, then we went and gave him a new contract. Who will buy him in the summer, except Harry if they stay up? How is Defoe our only striker, is that some kind of a joke?
Fanman
People getting on AVB's back is, in my opinion, ridiculous. It was NOT the inclusion of Livermore, or the moving of Dembele that cost us the game. Not even close to it!!. It may count for $hit, but here's my opinion of our team yesterday..

Lloris - Did absolutely NOTHING wrong. I've read post after post about how he screwed up the STUPID backpass. It was a bloody miracle he even got to it and, if BAE had been somewhere near 'in position', Lloris wouldn't have had to come 20 yards to try & make up for someone elses mistake. I guess the harshest amongst us would say that Lloris could/should have just smashed the ball away as hard as possible BUT that's not his game. His game is to try & maintain possession for our team. What if he'd have attempted to smash the ball away, got it wrong & gifted possession to Liverpoo anyway? It'd have probably been the same outcome. He tried to just nick it past Downing but just got unlucky.

Walker - Well he just played like Walker!! I've read opinions blaming Livermore for allowing the runner to go for the first Liverpoo goal, but if Walker had been in position, Livermore wouldn't even be spoken about. Unfortunately Walker was once again the wrong side of his man & somebody else takes the blame for his lack of ability at defending. I find it extremely odd that nobody has mentioned the BLATANT PENALTY that Walker should have conceded too, when he just pulled Coutinho down when a cross came in from Liverpoo's right. As for the back-pass, I don't know what can be said. It wasn't even a pack-pass in my opinion, asnd I think he was attempting to play it to Vertonghen and totally fu**ed it up. Either way, my local U12 teams would know that you NEVER play balls along your own backline. How many more costly freekicks? How many more times do we have to watch him being out of position? He's one of the biggest liabilities in our whole squad..

Dawson - Don't see how he did anything wrong.

Vertonghen - Did nothing wrong, did what our 'strikerS' can't do, and was, once again, our best player.

BAE - Once again proving that he's just a left sided Kyle Walker. Was pretty much never in position, was once again busy passing to the opposition, and that pathetic challenge on Suarez got what it deserved, and I truly hope that we're either looking for a new LB, or Zeki Fryers is as good as I've heard.

Sigurdsson - Again, I don't see what he did wrong? He worked bloody hard for the team, was ALWAYS finding himself some space & requesting the ball. Yes he could have squared to Defoe when the opportunity was there BUT last week people were saying he was stupid for trying to square it to Bale when he could/should have shot. You can't have it both ways & it took a defender, 'keeper AND a post to stop his effort from finding the back of the net..

Dembele - Played a very good game & I find it impossible to fault him. If I'm picky I could say his passing was poor in the first 10 minutes BUT when you can simply just go & get the ball back from the wrong player you passed it to, it's not such a problem.

Livermore - Rather predictably he's being made a scapegoat for the result, yet he had NOTHING to do with us throwing the game away. Yes his passing in the first 15 minutes wasn't the best, but that was all he did wrong and, as I said, had nothing to do with our final result. Solid & ordinary, but did what was asked of him.

coopsieyid
Parker - I'm becoming more & more frustrated with Scotty 'TenTouch' Parker. The amount of times the ball was played out of our defence, Bale & Sigurdsson making very good runs behind the backline screaming for the pass & pointing where they want it played, only for Scotty 'Ten Touch' Parker to slam on the brakes to stop any attack from taking place & opting to go back to the defence again. I get it, he's a defensive midfielder, but it's just be nice if somebody old him he doesn't need to defend for both teams. I feel that Scotty 'Ten Touch' Parker is on borrowed time at THFC.

Bale - Just like every other week in the last 3 or 4 months, he was greedy & only looking to shoot. Personal glory MUST take backstage when there's a team around you. That said, he had some decent set-pieces (from out wide) & we wouldn't have scored without them. Pathetic girly play acting (grabbing his face when Lucas touched his shoulder) NEEDS to stop. It's fecking PATHETIC & an embarrassment to mankind!!

Defoe - Meh, what's the point in even mentioning him?

Subs - Not on long enough to make a FAIR judgement.

AVB - I fail to see what he did wrong. I've read post after post on here in recent months saying "I was fuming when the team was announced but then we go out & win & AVB proves me wrong again".. Well that would have been exactly the same yesterday if it wasn't for the commonly acknowledged/mentioned 'weak links' in our team, ie Walker, BAE & Defoe. Here's the FACT of the matter, had they not screwed up in the way that they did, we WOULD have won, and AVB WOULD have once again, somehow, selected a team that had acquired maximum points from the game..
coopsieyid
Do we see Ade as the player to get the best out of Bale, with respect to being a team player. Or is Bale and Defoe the answer, it's not worked with Defoe and Ade. So taking the picture of Striker and Bale if he is not sold, i still think Benteke would be great up top with Bale in behind. then we can look at a new winger Goonmyson that korean lad, what ever his name is and Mountinho or Erikesen. Looking over the squad, it comes back to never having a player who can do what lennon does, cover and defend and attack the right flank, he get's some bad press on here, but when he was missing before under Arry, hamstring problem, the balance of the side is lost aka VDV on the wing, yesterday starting with Dembele, why just to make room for livernomore, bad move, and his not made many all season AVB maybe over time will review this game and think shi7 i did f up that one.
spu 4 life
Fanman, agree with you. Playing with Defoe is like having 10 men. 9, if he is putting through balls to Suarez. Maybe time to think about 4-6-0? I would now even contemplate starting Dempsey upfront ahead of Defoe.
ParkLaneBB
TonyRich, I agree with what you say. You're right about Walker as well. He is not learning from his mistakes, but gradually making worse ones. His errors directly cost us goals. With regards to the formation, I agree with you, but my thinking was that Sigurdsson on the right would have stretched Liverpool, and made space in the centre for Holtby and Defoe. You're right though, Defoe doesn't get on the end of crosses.
Fanman
gutted... think some of the team may need a bit of rest..
Yidmarks
Kaboul back might help with Walker. The pair of them used to get a bit of criticism when they played together...but imo they had some good pluses, and Walker seemed better with him alongside him. Just thought it was worth a mention. AVB does deserve his share of the blame as well as some players. Nothing Major though because we were damn unlucky towards the end to not come away with at least a point. He’s said himself that there were a few things he wants to avoid getting wrong in the future. This can apply to his motivation and prep with players, the setup of the team at the start and by the end… as well at the individuals and their own errors. I hope this sounds more like constructive criticism rather than just having a pop, which is not my intention. COYS.
SpursOne2
Coops, i think we might well see fryers start to move up soon, bench then take Bennys place, bae has time to cross the ball, no he makes another turn, then another, people moan about parker, phuck me the guy was tops yesterday agian, bae goes to make a shoulder charge in the arse game and misses the player, yesterday this stop start play of his, goes inside and gets done by downing nearly leading to a goal, charges down suarez penalty, out of position downing scored from the phuck up of a back pass who's man is downing, benny aint all that at times. fryers is playing well in under 21's reserves. fergie had him in the carling cup teams and he did well, we shall see, not slagging off our players, but benny is rash and careless
spu 4 life
ParkLaneBB, I'd definitely start Dempsey ahead of Defoe. At least he's a team player and is capable of finishing. Defoe would of never scored a goal like Vertonghen's second. He would of just smashed it at the keeper.
Fanman
the dembele/parker combo has not been our greatest asset of late, they have not showed the compatibility of sandro/dembele, also dembele had one of his best games of late yesterday so I have no problem with how we were set up. livermore and parker made life difficult for liverpool and they really didn't threaten the way I feared they would. AVB won the tactical battle and we were actually cruising to a win until the mindless errors.
Guernman
spu 4 life, agreed, Benny is too laid back, and often caught out of position or caught on the ball. I have been saying that Jake was poor, but he is not a weak link in the side. He doesn't excellent at anything, but he does a job and will hopefully improve at defensive midfield. Maybe that loss has done us a favour of clearly highlighting our weak links; Walker, Defoe and Benny.
Fanman
An 861 word article is excessive, 300-400 words excessive at the very least. I start reading these things but every time I get to end of second paragraph and ask myself 'How much more of this is there?'. Would 1000 words have said more? 250 words should hit the point, 300 words if need be. Get read, get to the point.
Airwave
Spot on Coops. I've learnt to not question AvBs selections.

Our last 3 league losses were out of his hands IMO. When Ade got sent off against scum after just 17 minutes all the game planning and tactics become redundant, Everton was freaky and I believe when he addressed our injury time goals problem (to superb success), and then yesterday, we were in total control till Walker fu(ked it all up.

So now I look at his team selections and think "the man has earnt my trust".
Tottenham Hotcore
We bossed the MF for most of game and created more chances than they did on their own turf. How can that be the subject of criticism? By all means highlight the obvious individual deficiencies that led to their goals and our misses but it was an otherwise a great team performance. Keep this up and we'll finish at least 4th easily.
Love totty
SPU - cheers for the Fryers info... I'm not sure if the Parker part of your response was directed at me? However, I never said he played bad, mate. I simply said that I'm becoming more & more frustrated by how he plays. He literally 'stops' us from attacking. I will now, forever & a day, refer to him as 'Ten Touch', for reasons that would be obvious to Ray fecking Charles lol.. Obviously we are on the same page, re BAE :(
coopsieyid
Quite right, Airwave. Waste of time reading other people's rubbish when we have so much of interest to say ourselves. LOL.
Love totty
Pretty much agree with your first post Tony Rich and your last post Love Totty
Ossie
Well said TH, and thanks for agreeing too. I'll take what I can get lol
coopsieyid
And, like Ossie, I agree with Love totty. As I did with his comments on yesterdays match thread too. I'm so glad I give those threads a wide birth now, the amount of $hit that gets spouted on them is actually pathetic.
coopsieyid
I see Tommy Carroll's mum is a VS MOM voter.
Love totty
Off topic - Robben (doubt) & Ribery (out) for the 2nd leg against Arseanal, with Boateng & Shweinsteiger both banned. FFS please don't let those jammy Pikey barstewards overturn that 3-1 deficit!!!!
coopsieyid
My only gripe yesterday was splitting the CM of Dembele and Parker. I would have kept the strength there and let the RW be weaker. IMO I would have either played Carroll or Holtby.

However, we did well up until the mistakes which meant AVB selection was fine up until then. However, I thought Livermore gave very little and didn't take his opportunity he was given yesterday. I think AVB went for the two defensive players to be safe and try and catch them on the break rather than play Carroll or Holtby where Carroll is still learning and Holtby has yet to find his feet although he started brightly, adrenalin rush he had when he arrived but now the hard work starts as he now needs to find his place within the team and system.

The first goal was poor defending by Walker and Livermore but well taken by Saurez, the two mistakes as we know Walker and Defoe.

My concern is Defoe like Ade are not on their game and Dempsey is injured. We cannot afford to have non of our strikers performing, we canot rely on Bale all the time
thfan
How can you question AVB's selection when we were 1-2 up and coasting. We only lost because of two stupid errors. Would anybody be questioning AVB's selection if we had won?? I suspect not. How fickle some people are.
Hot_Spur
Targets are still the same, they haven´t changed: CL spot and a good run at EL, maybe even winning it. However, lessons must be learnt even if we fail to achieve one or both goals. I for one, cannot see AVB starting a new season with so thin a squad like the one he has now. Thin ?? Well, what other word could I use when an injury to a right winger leads the manager to pick his best central midfielder to right wing ?? Curiously enough, we have 3 players currently on loan that could have done the job: Towsend, Falque and even Bentley...not good enough ?? So why on Earth are they on loan ?? They should have been sold then...I mean, this is the kind of managerial mistake (by Levy as well) Spurs are not allowed to make if they really want to be true CL habitueés. Same reasoning apllies to RB and LB positions. No cover for moments like yesterday when none of them were playing well. Strikers ?? Do I need to address this ??
AlexSpur
I wonder why the individual errors occur occaisionally...and wonder what we can do to eradicate them. Well..i suppose that's down to Avb and co' to sort out. Loseing to Liverpool in itself, was not a disaster. Bring on Inter and Fulham......We'll be back on track, after those games :-)
82spursdebut
the problem with playing a lightweight on the right, either holtby or carroll, is that is where we have our weakest defense link anyway with walker and it is also the wing where liverpool were the greatest danger, whether it be from coutinho or suarez. dembele filled the role very well and for the most part countered their threat, meanwhile livermore and parker were in control until we gave the second goal away and the momentum switched to liverpool. again, no problem with AVBs team, I just hope adebayor gets the nod ahead of defoe when they are both fit,
Guernman
Cheers Coopsie/Ossie - I think some people just let disappointment obcsure their vision. Walker, BAE and JD are still great players and I'm glad they are in our squad for now. They have had great games too and will again I'm sure. COYS.
Love totty
Fanman - Probably the reason you cannot understand AVB's team set-up is because you are not a football manager. Only an armchair one.
Hot_Spur
At 2-1 we were dominating the game and looked set to take all 3 points. Absolutely gutted that two defensive errors cost us the match. Can't blame AVB's selection for those two mistakes.
Corbyspurs
and I agree with your post Coops about the match threads, pathetic sums it up prefectly...
Ossie
I don´t blame AVB selection yesterday. What I do not understand is how a club who wants to be a CL regular dares to play a thin squad that leads their manager to perform radical shuffles because a right winger gets an injury. Before the match, in another post, I wrote about my fears regarding Lennon´s injury because he was giving Walker a little help every now and then.
AlexSpur
alexspur, I have to disagree. We need competition for lennon and bale, certainly, but the fact that townsend is on loan is the right decision for the player, he has improved immensely for the run of games that he is getting at QPR and he would not have featured very much at all if he had stayed - we end up getting a better player next season. we have a manager who is taking a longterm view of how to get the best out of his squad. yes, it would have been a nice option to have had townsend yesterday, but it doesn't mean he would have featured and not having him is not why we lost the game. dembele played very well and neutralised their most dangerous front. Bentley is not good enough and would never have featured, he needs to be playing so that maybe somebody will take him, as for falque, no way does he play ahead of holtby or siggy. we cannot afford to apply the harry approach to squad management of keeping everyone around just in case, it is also not fair on players like townsend.
Guernman
If AVB is to be criticised at all, it is for not taking Lennon off for the last 15 mins against Inter. Apparently, when asked, Lennon wanted to stay on, but when he has a history of pulling muscles and hamstrings perhaps AVB should have gone with his instincts and got him off. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. In the same vein I hope that not playing Bale on the left was due to tactical reasons and not for fear of upsetting Bale's ego. I would have had Bale left and Siggy right. Verts has to play LB at times so hopefully Bale will comply with what is best for the team. However, we lost the game due to 2 mistakes. Football is a funny old game. Siggy almost won us the match at Everton (ball hitting the bar) and almost won it at Liverpool (ball hitting post). 6 points gone!! Lets move on, there will no doubt be more of the same. 2 weeks ago before the WHam game nearly all of us would have taken 7 points from these recent games. We got 6, and the important 3 against Le Arse. Finally, with regard to BAE, I can't take a professional footballer seriously if he chews gum throughout the game....!
jacobslad
let's see ..how can we eradicate the mistakes...........well all 3 goals started down the right side of our play. HMMMM...is that a coincidence !?.....hmmmm. No lennon.....hmmmmm........perhaps AXE Walker...and move siggy' to the right wing...and play Gallas right back. ..NOpe see many possibles.....but for me, it's Naughton right back and Walker moved up to right wing. Livermore.....basic ..player....no better.........adequate replacement, for parker....occasionally. Gonna be a interesting team selection for the Inter game.........I hope Spiderllorisman plays. I think his extra agility will be required..and The kick up the backside....should give Walker some Focus. Defoe....hmmmm....better bet than Adebayor..especially away....But only just. Nailbiter.....but i see spurs loseing 2-1 vs Inter...and Winning 2-0 vs Fulham.
82spursdebut
I think the only selection you can criticise AVB for making was Lennon in the Inter game...we all discussed how important the pool game was yet he still risked both Lennon and Bale...that said his selection of players yesterday should have won the game....as for why Defoe and Ade are not scoring with Bale in the middle? the clue's in the question....
shedboy2
We can drop our full backs, put vertonghen at left back and naughton at right back and put caulker in middle with Dawson. Vertonghen is still a better player at left back than BAE. Defoe coming in destroyed bales contribution, all Defoe does is shoot wherever he is the minute he gets the ball near the box he goes for the shot at least ade passes the ball
spursnoob
Guerman, allow me to explain myself: I´m not against loans... I´m against managerial procedures that cripple a squad preventing it to perform the right way. An example: next match against Inter at San Siro: we´ll likely be playing without our best wingers and have no proper cover for none of them. Will AVB play Dembele at right leaving Parker and Livermore to protect our defense ?? Towsend, as far as I know could provide cover for Bale and/or Lennon...
AlexSpur
AVB should be criticised for Letting Townsend go out on loan. Same as i Blame Harry for not using Townsend last season and opting to use kranjcer..when Lennon was injured. To me that played the bigger part in allowing our Momentum to slide away,last season. BUT........in the here and now....AVB..is doing a fine job, generally IMO.
82spursdebut
The days of having wingers who do little else but head down and sprint for the byline are gone. I don't recall Townsend setting the world on fire on the occasions he played for us. I'm sure that he will develop his all round game with experience elsewhere but clearly others in the squad like Siggy offer more just now. He is not a like for like replacement for Lennon or Bale.
Love totty
Alex & 82sd - I think I can see what you're both getting at and, to an extent, I sort of agree. Here's my take on AVB's thought process though. He is, in my opinion, clearly a very clever man. I feel that he sees Rose & Livermore in his future plans BUT knows that, whilst he cements his own position in the club, ie hopefully achieving a position in the PL that brings us CL football next season, whilst hopefully snagging a European trophy too, he MUST go with his more experienced players. Game time for Rose & Townsend would have been little to none. So they get sent out on loan, continue their education & improve as players, whilst AVB gets a full PL season to properly assess his "senior squad". I believe that the likes of BAE and, dare I say it, maybe even Walker & Parker too, have shown AVB that they perhaps aren't best suited to AVB's system. If you think about our future left side, it could consist of any 2 of Fryers, Rose & Townsend BUT Mr AVB simply can't plan for his/our future, if he doesn't properly assess our present.

that's my take on it anyway :)
coopsieyid
Coopsie – Fair assessment of the players. I think there’s only a few of us who can see the parker problem. I’ve said it time and time again, he has a role to play in certain games, and agree he is a very good combative midfielder IF you only want him to break up the play. But his lack of vision and ability to move the ball quickly and effectively are a massive problem in going forward. I notice that he’s starting to make the odd 20yard burst forward only to hit a brick wall, Pirouette, then play it back to where he started. He obviously knows he needs to move forward sometimes but unfortunately he just isn’t that sort of player. I am correct in thinking this is the same parker who was scoring week in week out for the spammers when he got player of the season?? Ive given up on Defoe, he is utter garbage!! I don’t care if I get called “fickle” (that phrase really winds me up) but the guy just brings nothing to the table. Time to move on Jermaine, it’s the same every single year.
hudderspur
Anyone read the torrent of $hit Rogers has spewed out?. What ******** game was that CoUNTy watching?.
Tottenham Hotcore
82 there's no real way of eradicating mistakes, happens in most games, even shuffling the pack as you suggest doesn't mean mistakes wouldn't have happened.....
Ossie
spurs noob, Verts is too good a CB to be replaced by anyone else. BAE often plays very well for us, yesterday he did ok apart from the pen. Right back yes, defending Walker could be a liability, when Kaboul is fully fit he could be a good option there. Back end 2 seasons ago he was aswesome there and he gives us great height at both ends for set pieces......82 agree 100% ref Townsend , bad move that one, we could really use him right now.
tophobunty
Hot_Spur, Am I doing something wrong by giving my opinion on the team formation? I'm quite sure that many were shocked by the inclusion of Livermore, and Dembele being moved to wide-right. I mean, why break up such a great centre-midfield pairing, that was especially excellent in our last game? We lost our star winger, but there was no need to change the middle. Especially when we have players that are capable of playing out wide in Bale and Sigurdsson. I think that it was more of a risk starting Livermore to protect the defence (which he didn't do so very well); than it would of been starting Holtby behind Defoe, who can unlock defences with through passes. Fair enough, Defoe doesn't get on the end of Bale's crosses, but Bale can score from the left himself, which is how he became the player that he is today; and Sigurdsson puts great crosses in. Yes, I'm judging from my 'armchair', but surely it is logical and essential to ensure that a team has width and balance from left to right? Ultimately, we defeated ourselves yesterday with individual errors, but I think that the team wasn't set-up right.
Fanman
Well...the england under 21's...sherwood and ferdy....plus me.....Knew Townsend was the business. Plus...he has done well on the few occasions he has played for spurs..ie...vs charlton, shamrock....before he were 20 years old. plus he helped spurs earlier this season when he came on as sub'. BUT their is a much bigger reason why i will continue to praise him....espec' while he merits it.....LOL....he was a gent when he after playing a blinder for our under 21's....stopped and gracefully with a fantastic smile..gave my son a memory to cherish. (Photo)......even though he were probably knackered !!..lol.....he didn't have his head down then !! NO two players are the same....but our squad is looking a touch shallow....and yes, i'm very pleased he is still our player, though i suspect...he may have a better future elsewhere. Time will tell. Till then.....siggy' ..is doing okish.
82spursdebut
Surely by now we should know that AVB picks a team or formation based on the opposition. Yesterday, against an in form Liverpool side at Anfield, it worked. For me, simple tiredness (we played Arsenal & Milan since pool stroll against Wigan) caused individual errors. We also missed a couple of chances but dominated the game, so right selection. Clearly we are thin on the ground - maybe we should've brought a striker in Jan ? :)
Windlespur
hudderspur, well at least we agree on Defoe. He's become the new Jenas i.e. total waste of space. We're better off putting Bale up top and Holtby behind him. I would hope that AVB is strong enough to make such a decision. As Defoe is just a detriment to the team. The last time he scored was against Aston Villa in December 2012. Once he sees himself dropped when Ade is injured, he'll start talking to his agent.
Fanman
Fanman, spot on. Though Dembele excelled at right, maybe (just maybe) if he was playing DCM he could provide options for back passes. Yeah, I know it is a long shot, that´s why I wrote maybe twice. Livermore still is for me a choice hard to figure out the underlying reasons. Maybe Dembele and Parker playing as they have been doing, plus Siggs on right, Holtby behind Defoe and Bale at left could inflict more damage to Liverpool even with Defoe an absolute passenger.
AlexSpur
RE: Holtby criticism. Really. He played 3 minutes. As we saw with Siggy who was being written off as crap on here & similar with Modric, Bale etc - it takes time to settle in a new league or at a new club. Holtby is young, committed & hungry - he will come VERY good.
Windlespur
hudderspur - I think, like Parker, there are games that would/will suit Defoe. just NOT the big games!! And going back to Parker, what you speak about has been a gripe of mine since the day we signed him. At Wet Spam and at Newcastle, he would pop up with some absolutely cracking runs & goals, yet he literally NEVER shoots for us. There isn't a supporter or pundit out there that doesn't wax lyrical about our very good counter attacking game, quick passes etc etc. Parker, unfortunately, is very much the polar opposite of 'quick passing' or 'attacking'. I am absolutely 100% NOT slagging Parker off, he's VERY good at what he does. it's just that what he does, doesn't really seem to suit what we are aspiring to become. Young Tom Carroll seems to be being moulded/readied to step in, Sandro & Dembele have already proven they are perfect together (in my opinion), Townsend & Rose (and from what I've read, Fryers too), very much suit our rapid counter attacking style/system. As I said in my previous response, I think AVB recognises this already BUT has done the right thing & allowed his 'senior players' the opportunity to show that they can or can't fit in with that system.

I've got to go get my kids from school now, hopefully get back to chat a bit more later. COYS
coopsieyid
Hudderspur - whilst you are right about Parkers limitations going forward and he isn't the best in the world in his position, but with Sandro out he is easily the best we've got (probably England too). One day we might afford a team of the world's best, but for now let's support who we've got and who give 100% every game.
Love totty
yes, possibly ossie..........hard to account for walkers missplaced pass.....except possibly offering him more choices closer at hand. We are all humans....and well lets just hope they are reduced to a minimum. YES.....pretty much agree with you coopsieyid.
82spursdebut
Coopsie - agree totally with your comments on AVB selection. However, not sure how you can say Lloris did absolutely nothing wrong. I like Lloris alot, but along with Walker, Defoe & BAE made an error. He did well to get to the terrible back pass, but then tried a risky play instead of row z'ing it.
Windlespur
I've been asking around after Zeki Fryers a bit recently and whilst I haven't seen him play I'm hearing good things about him. He is supposedly very strong, quick and athletic but (and this is the most exciting bit for me) he has a good footballing brain! Now that is something that both our current first choice full backs seem to lack. He is apparently positionally sound and isn't shy about getting forward and adding to our attacks. One person actually described him as a more cultured version of Micah Richards. Now if that is true then I can't wait to see him in our first team.
SpuriousLife
Alexspur they're on loan to help develop their game. Which do you think Townsend would learn more from, playing PL football every week and scoring and being rated by his "manager" or practicing every day and sitting on the bench with the hope of getting 15 minutes here or there and maybe a couple of games if Lennon or bale get injured? It's called investing in the future. His value right now must be up at least 50-75% if we wanted to sell him. Did you say Bentley? Surely you jest!
jvd
AlexSpur, agreed. Dembele did very well on the right, but what he did well, was driving inside onto his left-foot and going past players like he normally does from the middle. So what did he offer as a right winger / right-sided player? I think that Dembele would have offered an option for passing backwards, as he normally does. He often collects the ball from the back four and runs with it, or gives it back, but he is there as an outlet. Livermore can't turn or run with the ball (I've never seen him do it anyway). Defoe, as bad as he is, plays better when Lennon is on the field, because they have a good understanding. Maybe if Sigurdsson was on the right to feed him, he would of had a better chance of scoring? At the moment I think that our team is built to get the best out of Bale, which is understandable, but what's the point of playing Defoe, in a system that doesn't suit him at all? Who was there to give him service yesterday? You're right that Defoe is a passenger, but it is AVB's system yesterday that made him a passenger IMO. He was scoring when Bale and Lennon were on the flanks. Anyway, I think that we showed that we're a very good team, to play well even when not playing in our normal formation, without any pace on the wings, so credit to AVB for that. We were just unlucky that Walker, BAE and Defoe messed things up.
Fanman
Coopsie thanks for bringing some rationale to the discussion. Agree with you on all but Parker. Yes in his first 10 games back or so. But over the last 3 games he has been pushing forward more and more. Yesterday, several times he was looking for a forward pass but no one was available. I think we have to remember he's coming back from an Achilles injury and his confidence in the tendon is probably now beginning to return to normal. Lets see if he can win back your pleasure over the next few games.
jvd
coopsie, I wonder if the goons getting through might be of value to us in the long run? Sacrilege to suggest, I know, but it would mean they wouldn't be able to focus all their attention to finishing 4th. I'm sure the chance of progressing in the CL would distract them. After all we have the distraction of the EL and that cost us by losing Lennon yesterday.
ParkLaneBB
A couple of people have been suggesting that players shouldn't be back passing, that the ball should be pressed forward instead. But a good back pass often is the best thing to do with the ball when one is under pressure. But a good back pass isn't just any back pass, and yesterday we saw a couple of idiotic back passes. Utterly clueless back passes. The ball passed into absurd danger either through laziness or through panic. And nothing is worse to do with the ball than a panicky or silly back pass. Better to fall down on top of the ball clumsily and have the official blow his whistle to give away a free kick than to kick the ball blindly towards one's own goal. Even the most boring long-kicking teams of England of yore or of Norwegian or Swedish teams of yore know that the ball is least likely to go into one's own goal when kicked away from one's own goal. One should back pass when one is confident that it will be going only to one's own GK or own's own team mate. When there is a reasonable possibility that the ball will go to an opposing attacking player, don't do it. How hard is that to understand? And do not kick the ball towards your own goal when you aren't in a position to control your own kick. How hared is that to understand? Send Walker and Defoe to a chair in the corner near where they take corner kicks, wearing a large conical hat. You know, the kind of hat that the teacher would make a total knobhead wear after making an erroneous back pass to the enemy in one's own defensive box.
Total knobhead
Windle..siggy has progressed from being crap to average as he was again yesterday. So he is moving in the right direction. I am not sure we will ever get to the level of player we really need to be and maintain top for. Townsend on the other hand could IMO.
tophobunty
I want to make it clear I don't mean to suggest we should sell Towsend just used the valuation to show that he is being groomed extremely well and will come back to us a much better product than if he sat on our bench.
jvd
I can only imagine the comments we would be getting today if Adebayor rather than Defoe, had made that back pass yesterday.
Total knobhead
Another thing I notice is people calling for Walker to be pushed up to RW/RM with Naughton moving to RB. Can we please get real. To me that would indicate that AVB had no knowledge of his players. Walker cannot cross a ball to save his life. Most times his forays down the wing end with lost possession and him totally out of position. He is better whe he is. BTW he made a great defensive play yesterday when he came out of nowhere to dispossess a Liverpool attacker who was in on goal 1on 1. He might make mistakes but he also makes great plays!
jvd
TK - I agree with you. However only Walker's was a back pass yesterday. Defoe wasn't trying a back pass, he actually tried to chest control the ball, got that wrong and as the ball bounced away from him he tried to control it with his right foot and in doing so managed to lob the ball straight to Suarez in our own penalty area. Walker's error was brain fade whilst Defoe's was more like something you see during a Sunday morning pub match. It was absolutely pathetic and something any self-respecting footballer should be thoroughly ashamed of!
SpuriousLife
parklane, I would have preferred arsenal to stay in the CL until later, although we certainly don't want a repeat of last season. the point is now mute though, no way will they overturn a two goal deficit in munich
Guernman
Hopefully Townsend will be a big player for us next season. He's another greedy one though lol. Its times like these that make you realise how good Lennon is. No one in the league can do what he does. He gets up and down the right like a champion, and even looks dangerous on the left. Plus he can score goals too. we're lucky to have him.
Fanman
jvd, Walker has talent. He needs intensive personal coaching to learn what to do with that talent on the pitch. Football is an unforgiving sport, with a single error committed in a second or two leading to disaster. A play of brilliance by a Bale or a Messi, etc., balanced out by a second of buffoonery by a Walker or a Defoe. Arguably, whatever coaching is done to get a Bale to improve needs equal coaching to be done to ensure that a back pass isn't fed to a Suarez inside our own box. One moment of such ridiculous error undoes the moment of brilliance at the other end of the pitch. The weakest link in the defensive end in the single moment of weakness has as much to do with the final outcome of the game as all of the best moves of a team's best player.
Total knobhead
At last!, some sane & sensible responses to yesterday's game, unlike on the game thread where the usual trolls came out to spout their usual $h1te about their favourite punchbags. Feck me, I'm reminded of spoiled kids blaming their parents for not buying them the latest fecking iphone or blaming their siblings because they lost at hungry hippos!

Due to 2 mistakes, we lost a fecking football match & according to that tw@ Jim White on Sky after the game & 1 or 2 on here, our CL hopes are wrecked! What complete & total crap! Christ, you'd think the Queen had died judging by the rubbish being spouted. Well, HELLO!! Nothings changed. We're still 3rd, the Chavs have a backlog of games, the Arse are, well, the Arse as their name suggests & Liverpoo aren't nailed on for 4th either. As we all saw yesterday, bar a last gasp block to prevent 3-1 & 2 howlers, we were by far the team in control of that game & would have won but for that. Some should also remember that our record at Anfield is complete crap as well, 1 win in the last 5 before kick off & only 3 wins in the premier league era, some 21 games now. The epitome of a bogey ground if ever there was one.

After we lost at Everton in December, yes, December was the last time we lost in the Prem, we beat Swansea at home to set up the last unbeaten run & with Fulham at home this weekend, there's no reason why we can't do it again.

Sorry for the rant, but the trolls in Spurs shirts really got to me.

Spuds-U-Like
SpuriousLife,

You may be right that Defoe's blunder was physical more than mental, although, having watched the play more than once I'm not sure that there wasn't a panic element in it as well. Just because he didn't chest control the ball in the first touch isn't a reason to flail aimlessly thereafter. I fear the physical error resulted from an attentional error compounded by flailing in panic. As to Walker, pure and simple: a play of someone not thinking at all.

Total knobhead
Windle – Come on mate, Lloris hardly tried to do step-over’s with the ball did he? I think his intention was to row Z it but just missed the Bloody thing lol The worry is when a keeper gets caught in no mans land (which wasn’t really his fault) is if he brings down downing he sees a straight Red. Ive mentioned before that we rely on Lloris as the sweeper too often. We got burned on Sunday so maybe now we will start to see a bit of caution

Guys, im not slagging parker off, im just highlighting his limitations in my opinion. I would love to see Coulthirst get a start at the San Siro….Baptism of fire or what! We cant go there thinking its already won but we have to surely rest / rotate a few players. Fulham is a must win. Like I said, Coulthirst cannot be any worse than Defoe, maybe play 4-4-2 with them both up top.
hudderspur
I was off watching rugby yesterday, so have only just had the chance to watch the game. I remember reading the line-up and thinking it was odd, but after what I've just seen, it's hard to say that it contributed to our downfall. That, as has been pointed out a trillion times already was down to a few unfortunate errors or, if you want to be to be harsh on the players a few missed chances.
Walker, understandably, has taken some well-merited flack for his role in the goals, but I thought, those aside, he had a pretty good game. He is still very young, and, as last season showed, he does have what it takes. I'd like to see if a game of two for Naughton at RB, would force Walker to up his game. Lloris should never have been put into the position he was by Walker, but I think he could have done better against Downing. He looked absolutely distraught afterwards, rather than furious with Walker. Quality character in a quality keeper
It seems that Defoe has listened to his detractors and added passing to his game at last. Top, defence-splitting ball through to Suarez, who must have been thinking how can I possibly win me a penalty from this? Before Benny the human cannonball answered his prayers. It's been long enough since the injury to start worrying about him rediscovering the Benny of old.
Hard to say that Livermore really did anything wrong, because he did really didn't do anything. Holby's cameo had more to recommend it! I can't for the life of me think why he was picked over Holtby, who is a Toffeeman from a long line of Toffeemen, and would have been perfect for a starting roll, to leave Dembele where he's most effective. Dembele's a more than capable RW, though and had a great game. My only complaint is that he didn't manage to gouge out one of Suarez's eyes. Seemed to have a good go at it though.
Another good game by Siggy. Shame that he dragged that shot wide in the first half, and again he hits the woodwork! He probably should have threadled the ball across to Defoe, so that he could blast it at the goalkeeper and we could bitch about that instead. I think someone mentioned it above, but I bet he was thinking about being over generous in that prior game. Oh, and that passing to Defoe is largely an exercise in futility.
Vertonghen. Well SuperJan is well and truly back. He'd gone off the boil somewhat a few games back, but he's put in some excellent performances lately. Can only see him (and therefore us) getting better and better and better. Seems like a nice fella too. The King is dead, long live the King!!!
darkenvai
Ahh, sorry for the long, spammy post. Airwave, I'd just ignore that, if I were you, Not for those with attention deficit disorder.
darkenvai
Let us not forget, this team went unbeaten for three months and can do so for the rest of the season. And the Dec 9th loss, the last before the magnificent three month run, also came about through blunders that gave away two late goals when we were up a goal with time running down. Perfectly imperfect book ends to a magnificent run. Tragically poetic bookends perhaps. But the first of these two absurdly tragic blundering losses was the game that fed into three magnificent months. Now is not the time to despair.

Having said this, Walker needs to be coached into eliminating this sort of game-losing scatalogical play. Utter bambaclot, as the herbsman would say.

Total knobhead
hudderspur his intention should have been to row Z but if you watch again he tried to pass to a Spurs defender .Anyone with a problem with is foolish because it`s great to see us trying to play football at the back ,instead of the sometimes agricultural hoofing we used to see .
Walkers mistake was trying to play football ,Lloris too was trying to play football ,both were bad calls but i like the attitude of ball retention that Spurs have got so good at ,yes it backfired ,but it has also the last 4 - 5 months served us well served us well .
Remember the Dawson to Crouch ? those days are gone ,we`ve become a poor mans Barcelona ,but the effort ,commitment & discipline to play this way is to be admired .On this occasion it went wrong ,but the philosophy is great .
Spurs have a mentality i have not seen since the 80`s ,no fear .We will go to Liverpool away & play are football ,i respect that ,just better execution next time .

In 2013 league games Spurs are second in the table ,18 points only behind Man utd
big cockeral
Great post big C, sanity personified. Your wonder drugs are working mate! ;-)

Spuds-U-Like
Liverpool were lucky we were stupid. AVB now know how stupid SPURS can be and like how he dealt with letting in late goals I hope he can resolve being Spurs and f ing things up.

Yesterday also helped to prove how good Lennon is and how bad Livermore is. We need to get that boy out on a prem loan, 10 minute cameos is no good for him, 90 minute games is no good for us.
T.H.F.Chris
Naughton must be wondering how he can actually get a game at Spurs? He wasn't great against Leeds, and he also made a hospital pass that cost us a goal in the europa, but he was playing out of position. He's smarter than Walker, if less athletic, but Walker just has to be dropped after his howler in such an important game.
Fanman
Walker needs intensive individual instruction repeatedly and daily as to how to play the game. Get a personal coach for the man to work 90 minutes per day individually with the man. Either that, or send him somewhere else. But his physical attributes suggest it's worth intensive individual coaching to get him to wrap his head around how to play.
Total knobhead
Some players learn how to play by playing enough minutes. That doesn't seem to be working sufficiently with Walker. Up the coaching sessions with the man. He needs some individual coaching as he isn't getting football smart on his own, even though he's on the pitch more minutes that anyone.
Total knobhead
Lennon was a big loss but it was only 2 errors that lost the game these things happen in football time to move on nobody should be pointing the finger at the manager if you look at overall play we deserved to win. Looking at next months fixtures they could be the games which decide if we make CL or not we play Man City,Chelsea and Everton all will be tough games.
DSpurs
Our losses should be bracketed by three month periods without losses. Isn't that our current practice? Keep it up and all will be OK.
Total knobhead
BC - Oh Yeah, the Dawson to Crouch 80 Yarders haha I remember it well mate, and don’t miss it for a second! Maybe it came out wrong, I think its fantastic that we are playing out from the back, keeping the ball etc but there is far too many sloppy passes which we had gotten away with up to now. Ekotto has always had me wincing when he tries to Cruyff some in our own box, but mistakes, hospital balls, and the reliance of our keeper to come out of his box like Usain Bolt are becoming too frequent for my liking. I love to keep the ball but as my old coach used to say “IF IN DOUBT GIVE IT A CLOUT”

I think we do need to look at the positives though guys, we outplayed an on form Liverpool at Anfield, we were just bloody unlucky! As long as we pick ourselves up and win our next couple of games I think we will be alright. We need to concentrate on our own fixtures yes, but does anyone think Arsenal and Chelsea are going to go the rest of the season unbeaten!!? Everyone loses games, we just need to win more then the teams below us.
hudderspur
My take on the Walker back pass is the same as Spu4 , why not attempt to play it off the Liverpoo player and get the throw-in, same thing kinda happened Vs ManCity last season, Benny only had to play it off the oppositions player!

The only problem with not losing for a while is eventually you tend to lose, just being a realist. I think most on here would of taken a point but nearly having three has screwed thing a little .

Thought breaking up Dembele and Parker in the centre was a mistake, hindsight is a wonderful thing though and we we dominating until that back pass!

Onto the Milan and Fulham games now, two more wins and we will be back on track. Chelsea have another game and both them and Arsenal will drop points during the run in.

Also think we will beat Man City...COYS !
ro6ertj
hudderspur Yeah i agree .One thing i was worried about was Lloris rushing out & bringing someone down ,`Red Card ` .
We have been testing the water a little & been a disaster waiting to happen ,just hope when Lloris charges out like a granny on ecstasy he keeps his timing right .
Massive Lloris fan by the way & Walker needs to stop his clumsiness ,he seems to have gone backwards
big cockeral
jvd, if we assume that Townsend reasoning was "...well, I´ll have to wait till Lennon or Bale got an injury to play..." we´ll be assuming AVB is drinking from the same poisoned cup Redknapp did, that is, lack of rotation. If he is cover for both wings and AVB is aware that lack of rotation was one of our sins last seasons, Andros should have expected more playing time with Spurs. If it is not the case, it is beyond me. Bentley was just a 3rd name to empower my reasoning. If memory serves me well, the least rotated players this season must be Lennon, Verts, Bale and Dembele.
AlexSpur
Coopsieyid agree with all the posts re the team.

Who's this Defoe fella you speak of, was he actually playing lol ! COYS
ro6ertj
Hows about Pirouette Parker for a name. He drives me scatty the way he slows things down. Just 15 more games till we have won the EL and come 2nd in the EPL
Big Ron
I actually thought Liverpool deserved to get something at the lane, so maybe they were due the rub of the green? Lots of people criticizing Livermore although he didn't actually do a lot wrong. Not at fault for the goals. It sounds like AVB setup perfectly only to be let down by a couple of mistakes, obviously you don't plan for mistakes. Had Walker found row Z then the last 30 minutes would have been different, do you feel Liverpool would still have scored 2 goals?

We need top 4, purely to allow Levy to invest in AVB's plan.
yiddyboy
When you look at our squad, lots of criticism of Livermore, Parker (to a degree), Walker, BAE, Defoe and Ade. Out of those names I wouldn't be surprised to to only see Livermore and Walker next season and here's my justification.

Livermore - Young and still learning, good backup to the beast..

Parker - Wrong side of 30, sell on value will only drop as will his input on the pitch.

Walker - Young and still learning, his pace is exactly what AVB requires in a high line. For me he has more pro's than con's.

BAE - Not everybody's favourite (although I do like him), he is not getting any younger and there was talk about an interest from Chelsea a few months back. He is easily replaceable and we would get a reasonable fee for him..

Defoe - Never been good enough for top 4 expectations, cash in whilst we can get something for him and have an agreement where we are unable to re-purchase him, period!.

Not the Ade from last year and I'm not sure he's the player AVB really wants to lead the line. With Ade always playing second fiddle to (enter your dream striker name here) he will be more hassle than I'm worth as he is worth a fair bit..

It's not all doom and gloom though boys and girls, we haven't seen Kaboul and Vertonghen pair up yet, oh sorry. I'm need the toilet now!!!!
yiddyboy
yiddyboy Livermore done nothing wrong because he done nothing at all. Against inter Dembele and Parker produced one of the best centre midfield performance ever at the lane, totaly dominated. Suprized AVB changed them but he has proven he knows what he is doing, just need Levy to back him in the market (winger/forward).
T.H.F.Chris
T.H.F.Chris - I only Defoe and Walker chose the "Do nothing at all" option rather than give the ball to the opposition then we would have a completely different thread today.
yiddyboy
Is it only OK to hammer certain players where as others escape all criticism ? ,,,,too many sheep .
They`re all on stupid money so don`t act like they`re your friends & do it for charity .
Fans have the right to praise & criticise who they want ,but then don`t complain when opinions aren`t respected & the place becomes a graveyard .
Are you paid £3 million a year to get it right ? until then ............
big cockeral
Coopsieyid agree with all the posts re the team.

Who's this Defoe fella you speak of, was he actually playing lol ! COYS
ro6ertj
First league defeat since early December and the players and to some degree the coaching staff are pilloried. It's been a fantastic sequence. Sunday was a bad and costly day at the office for one or two.
One word: Perspective.
Hotspur 1882
An interesting look back from the vital spurs community in 2006 on a transfer thread, some great comments froms ome begging we sign some kid called gareth bale. We were also linked to collins john lol. Also look how many gooners there are piping up! lol http://www.spurs.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=44112
HuddersfieldYiddo
Windle - Hi mate, sorry you slightly disagree with me about Lloris doing nothing wrong, I don't think I explained myself too well. I chose to make an allowance for him tot slamming the ball into 'row z' because, in my opinion, and I did say this, I don't believe it was actually a back pass, but was instead a pass to Vertonghen that was totally screwed up by Walker. I think that Lloris spotted the mistake extremely quickly & also noticed that downing was going to beat Vertonghen to the ball. So, like the whippet that Lloris is, he acted quickly and rushed out to get to the ball that no other THFC player had even the slightest chance to get to. Once he got there, he was pretty much 'straight on' with the ball, so it, in my opinion, would have been extremely hard for him to put his left foot through it, so he opted to try & just nip it past Downing, which would have ultimately given him the time to find a man AND get back to his line. Watch the incident again mate, see just how close he was to actually pulling off what he attempted to do. I honestly don't believe that he was in the right body shape to get his foot through the ball and that, along with the fact that he actually came screaming out of his area because of the mistake of Walker, is the reason I excused Lloris of any wrongdoing, mate. Had it not been for Walker's incompetence, Lloris wouldn't have had to make such a difficult decision in the first place. What he was trying to do was bail out a teammate, I'm just too damn nice to hold that against him lol.
coopsieyid
That must be the most hypocritcal post iver ever read on here Bigot C. "Is it only OK to hammer certain players where as others escape all criticism" yet whenever critcises one of your favourite players like Dembele, Lloris or Verts you get the hump, yet constantly, almost embarrssingly slate Lennon, Defoe, Dawson even when they are playing excellent. Of course you have the right to spout what ever nonsense you want, just dont cry when someone hammers someone you rate like Dembele.
HuddersfieldYiddo
jvd - Watch Parker again, if you're able to? Those runs you spoke of, re Parker driving forward, look at the movement infront of him BEFORE he started those runs forward. Both of Bale & Sigurdsson made wonderful runs, pointing where they wanted the ball, but Parker, as is now seemingly the norm, held on to the ball for too long & ended up with no other choice but to try ad drive forawrd himself. That's why I now refer to him as Scotty 'Ten touch' Parker, because it really has become a constant thing mate, even the clueless Jamie Redknapp said before Kick-Off that Parker likes to take too many touches. i will repeat though mate, I'm NOT in any way slagging Parker off. He is very good indeed at what he does BUT, when it comes to our newer style of quick passing & moving everything quickly on the counter attack, he's very much the opposite of what we require.

ParkLaneBB - I see what you're saying mate, re how it could be a good thing IF Arseanal proceed to the next round of the CL, but I just don't want it to happen. I want them to be battered, embarrassed, demoralised, broken, finished!!. Can you imagine their supporters if they end up being the English team that has progressed further than the rest? Would you like for Arseanal to be our most successful CL team this season? I'd rather watch 'Rick Waller' crack one off!!
coopsieyid
As long as we don't let it hurt our confidence we should be OK. I don't think AVB is planning on starting Siggy and Holtby together right now. They're both in good form so he can keep them hungry for a place in the starting line up that way. The main issue is that the strikers aren't grabbing some goals, although it has been encouraging to see players other than Bale find the net. If they put it behind them and play well next Sunday we should be fine. And if Defoe can get on the score sheet we'll be laughing. My only worry is that he'll know that if he doesn't score soon Ade will be straight back in the team when fit and he's more of a hindrance than a help when he's desperate!
edmontonspurs
SPUDS - EXCELLENT post (the one with the unnecessary apology for ranting).. Absolutely spot-on, mate!!
coopsieyid
darkenvai - Your post had me cracked up mate (the post about your thoughts on the match). The "He probably should have threaded the ball across to Defoe, so that he could blast it at the keeper" = genius lol.. Oh & you're right, somebody did mention earlier about Sigurdsson possibly thinking about when he crossed to Bale in the last match, rather than take a pop himself. It was a really good poster who mentioned it earlier too ;)
coopsieyid
Now that we have blamed everyone and anyone for a tough loss to digest, now that each situation and scenario has been fully analyzed with judgement given and taken, can we please move on ? Lets not wallow in negativity and self pity. "keep calm and carry on" :)
Arky
Big Ron - Pirouette Parker was a name that got me BATTERED on twitter last week, didn't go down at all well lol

ro6ertj - I've heard mythical stories about this Defoe, I'm told he's the best/most natural finisher in the PL. I wish we'd sign him, sounds awesome!!
coopsieyid
Coopsieyid I did indeed see that on two occasions but I judged that from ground level it is quite possible that he either did not see the request or considered the pass needed too precise to ensure success and decided that possession was the better option. Those passes require immediate reaction as they are closed down very quickly if not perfect. I do however think that we will see those types of through balls begin to happen as he gets more and more confidence that he is physically back to his old self. But I do know exactly the incidents of which you speak.
jvd
jvd - Thanks mate, I appreciate the response about 'Ten Touch'. I truly hope you're right, it'll only benefit us in the long run. One thing though, I really don't see him playing much football at all for us when Sandro returns. I think that Dembele & Sandro 'clicked' instantly & they were the perfect partnership to protect our defence & aid our counter attacking style.
coopsieyid
Cannot fault AVBs selection yesterday and but for a couple of individual errors, this article wouldn't even have asked the question. There is no way to legislate for lapses in concentration, when the body starts to get tired the mind does too.
Walker has been improving for a couple of months now but without Lennon yesterday he didn't have his usual "out ball". With Lennon missing, Defoe found himself in unfamiliar territory when dealing with the keepers' punch and failed to control a difficult ball but there is no way in this world that he ever intended to pass it into our box. He was just trying to bring it under control but he's been out injured for some time and has been forced to play 90 minutes twice in the space of a week (something AVB has not done when bringing players back from injury) due to our lack of striking options.
I thought I'd seen the last of the BAE that had my heart in my mouth whenever the ball was near him but he was back with a vengeance yesterday. I was worried about him before kick off when he didn't duck into the huddle, I know he's always the last in but yesterday he didn't look like he wanted to be there.
For those too blind to see, what yesterday taught us was that Lennon is an integral part of our team and without him our right side is little more than ordinary. We also know that for a side with top 4 ambitions we are shamefully light on firepower.
Liverpool will finish 6th at best, they were devoid of ideas once we took the lead, it took us shooting ourselves in the foot to give them anything from the game.
thfc1882whl
AlexApur I agree we have not got depth in these areas and it needs to be addressed. i think one problem we have is finding players that are good enough to cover who are willing to sit on the bench until their time comes. It is easier for Utd, Chelsea and City as they are keeping players happier bu paying them loads of dosh but for us we don't have that and players want to play and if they are not then they something to make it worth their while and that is dosh. Take City player Dzeko do we think he would sit on the bench for us for 70k a wekk - I don't think so.

Our RW cover the 3 we have loaned out. Bentley not good enough and has had a torrid time at Spurs, Falque and Townsend young and want first team experience/games.

It is hard but you make a good point. I think AVB has done fantastic with the players he inherited and I really don't think he has put his mark on the squad yet.

With regards to LB cover for BAE, we played Naughton who is not a natural LB as Rose wanted first team football however, I do think Naughton ought to be knocking on Walker door as Walker needs competition and Naughton has done well at times at LB.

Strikers is a joke and without Bale we would have been stuffed. It is about time this area is sorted. Next season i cannot see Defoe or Ade doing the business for us, we cannot rely on them so imo we need two new strikers even if Bale continues to play behind the main striker. A goal scorer and a back up and I expect Ade and Defoe not to be happy with being bench so maybe they can go or at least Ade and keep Defoe for cup games not CL.

We need a CM and I am not sure Parker will have the legs next season if Sandro gets injured and Livermore is not good enough yet and neither is Hudd. I would let them both go and get Carroll involved in cup matches and bring in another CM to compete with Dembele.

If we have Townsend back he will want to play and is he really good enough for first team, I am not sure. He is doing well but QPR is not Spurs and he hasn't proved it over a period of time just as Rose hasn't. These kids want to play this is what makes it difficult for us. Finding players that are good enough to cover and happy to sit the bench.,br>
The worse of this defeat is that it came after beating Arsenal, all the good work done that weekend accounts for nothing when you go and lose your nest game. Lessons to be learned.
thfan
When is Lennon back?
thfan
hudderspur............. I will go as far to say that I bet a left back is fort on AVB’s summer wish list as BAE just doesn’t look like he gives a $hit anymore. ............. I have been saying that about Benny for the last season and a half at least, but it is only lately that others are starting to see in him what I and one or two others have seen for ages. Don't get me wrong, I'm not slating him as a person, from all I can gather he's a pretty sound bloke. I just look at him from a footballing and Spurs perspective.
chrishove123
The last 2 posts were outstanding!! Well said thfc1882 & thfan....
coopsieyid
Anyway, are there any film buffs on here? I can't decide between "Django" or "Flight"...
coopsieyid
OI HOVE - "I have been saying this about Benny for the last season and a half at least, but it is only lately that others are starting to see in him what I and one or two others have seen for ages".. One of those "one or two others" had better be me, otherwise I'm sending the boys round to have a word ;)
coopsieyid
Like i said `graveyard `
big cockeral
Any one know when Lennon is back?
thfan
Any one know when Lennon is back?
thfan
thfan - A statement released earlier stated that "the club are optimistic that Lennon & Adebayor will be fit for the trip to Milan"..

Hope that's helped mate..
coopsieyid
I dont know how anyone can say the manager got his team selection wrong we done a job on them he was not to blame for two desasterous mistakes, plus the fact that Siggi should have scored at least one of the two very good chances he had and Defoe......well he is and always will be, I dont know ill jus leave it there fill in your own words for Defoe...just shows how much we have progressed a defeat now is alot harder to take...COYS....Dust yourselves off and get back to winning ways.....we are in a great position for Thursdays match but after this result a win in Milan would revitalise the team...One thing is for sure in his first year AVB has given us one hell of a journey!!!!!!!!!!!!!
krafty007
I'd go for Django, Coops ... as for the Parker debate -- I didn't want him at Spurs in the first place because I thought Sandro could do the job given a proper run by Harry. However, Scotty proved me wrong last year. But, he was having the same problem last year as this, and that is his creative play going forward. Then, we had Modric to do that job, and so good was he at it, that a lot of people didn't notice this lacking in Parker's game because he was excelling at smashing opponents.

I can't and won't fault him for being something that he never really was (sure, he had some moments with W Ham and Newcastle, but that was a younger player in his prime) and feel it's a little harsh to give him a disparaging moniker, because even with his limitations, the guy runs his heart out every time he pulls on a Spurs shirt and that should earn him our respect.
SpursEagle
Coopsie - I've seen Django and it is brilliant. Funny and a really good sound track. Well worth a watch. Enjoy!
SpuriousLife
SpursEagle - VERY good post, re Parker. Good post by krafty007 too!!

SpursEagle & Spurious, Thank You for responding about the film quandary. Django it shall be then :).. I knew I could depend upon the nightshift to enter the graveyard lol

coopsieyid
No doubt if he stays Paarker will become an excellent rotational figure for Sandro/Dembele until he retires in a couple years. Not a bad backup to combo on when you want to shut down the game.
jvd
It has just occurred to me after listening to 24 hours of non stop scouse bragging.
Remember back in the day when Liverpool swept all and sundry aside, I do and I also remember when we won at Anfield for the first time since 1912 (when the Titanic sank, wow, history and football). I remember how we celebrated that victory, much like the scousers are celebrating now. My thought was..... "My how times have changed".
thfc1882whl
No the result was not tough on Spurs. AVB has been massively overachieving (like Harry before him) with the light weight squad he has. No cover for either Bale or Lennon, (Townsend sent away to save big Joe 20 grand a week) and Levy has failed to buy a world class 2 footed winger to rotate with Bale and Lennon since Lennon and Bale arrived! Malbranque, a very good player was moved on to early to balance those books, And many on here are now passing the buck onto Defoe for not having the talent of Suarez, when the real truth is, the only reason Defoe was on the pitch on Sunday was because Levy/Lewis will not pay the going rate for a world class striker! Thank god that Parker's return to the team coincided exactly with Sandro's terrible injury, otherwise it would be season over already! Many criticize the offensive side of Parkers game, but he has been incredible for the team defensively. I never rated Parker before he came here, but I love the guy now! (brilliant low cost buy by Harry) He dies for the Tottenham shirt! The job will get harder and harder for for AVB now as players start to suffer from end of season fatigue, and if we suffer any more injuries to key players, that 7 point advantage could evaporate quite quickly... Total respect for AVB going 100% for both the top 4 and the Europa, but he is going to need a lot of lady luck to succeed on both fronts with such a fragile squad. Unfortunately you cant rely on luck to win at the top level. AVB is a fine coach, but his board have failed him!!!
pelebro
So Harry bought the players that YOU personally like, whilst Levy is responsible for buying ones you don't like? Seems very apt indeed!! Parker a cheap buy? £5mil transfer fee, around £12mil in wages, a total of a minimum of £17mil for a player over 30 who has absolutely no sell-on value. pelebro your post is as pathetic as EVERY other bloody post you make. EVERY member of this site, apart from you, has acknowledged & accepted that it was 2 or 3 individual mistakes that cost us all 3 points on Sunday. Were it not for Walker, Defoe & BAE, we WOULD have won the game, and you'd have had absolutely nothing to say. ONE team has a better away record in the whole league than we do. ONE team had a better record in the previous 3 months than we had. That team stands at the top of the league & will go on to win it. Yesterday I quizzed you about the FACT that Internacional released a statement that said "We received a bid in excess of £20million from Tottenham Hotspur for Leandro Damiao, but it wasn't enough to meet our valuation"... So I'll ask again, a £20mil+ bid for a player who has had a shocking 12 months in domestic football, has been dropped from the International team AND has NEVER played outside of Brazil domestically, yet that was still not enough of a bid to satisfy your unbelievable expectations? How do you know that AVB never told the board he doesn't want to make any BIG decisions on player acquisition until he's had a full season to evaluate his current squad? You don't, but that doesn't matter to you, does it? As long as you've got that imaginary stick to beat our board & owners with, you're disturbingly satisfied.
coopsieyid
An honor to have the Enic Pr surveillance police, reading every word of my posts and responding so quickly! ;)
pelebro
Should have won could have won. Pleasing aspect is every game we play nowadays we look the better team. 16 points from remaining 27 should be enough to get champ league spot and going by our current form its the minimum we should be getting. I fancy wins against Fulham, Swansea, Everton,Chelski and last 3 games COYMFS!!!
JattYid
Why don’t you raise other and more valid things to have ago at ENIC pelebro? Yes you highlight the time it’s taken to place plans for the stadium. But why not push them actually deliver? And nothing short of that will do. Like they Have delivered with the world class training facility, they need to deliver the same and more with the stadium....especially as they have taken do get it to this stage. Also the new station plans? This needs to be spot on and work. Picking a fight with them because we lost at Liverpool on them is a joke and doesn’t count for *****e. We did spend in the summer, new goal keeper, defenders, midfielders, forwards, coaching staff, manager. The list goes on, maybe you’re in denial about that? Why not push them to address more areas THIS summer. Seriously though…I do have respect for people who are not satisfied and want better for the club but pick your battles? ……you’re just winding up some decent Spurs followers on here by picking the wrong ones. Is that your intent? COYS.
SpursOne2
pelebro - Correct me if I'm wrong but I have never heard AVB use excuses like 'lack of cover' or 'no strikers'. You seem to always go on about ENIC, Levy and/or Lewis, you're getting to sound like a warn out record to be frank. If we had Messi up front on Sunday Walker would still have made the mistake. You are obviously not a huge Spurs fan, if one at all. Maybe Chelsea would be more suited to your preferred way of running a football club? Big Roman might even listen to you!!
yiddyboy
Having had some more time to reflect on the loss to Liverpool, I still believe that the team wasn't set-up to it's best formation and capability, with the players that we had available, but the set-up was still good, and we were the better team for a lot of the game. As we all know, the individual errors cost us dearly. I don't think that AVB can be blamed for that loss, because he picked a team that was winning and well in control of the game. However, I feel strongly that we should persist with Walker, because while gives us pace on the flank, running at players and sometimes great last ditch defensive clearances, he is a constant risk of causing us to conceed goals. He was directly as fault against Chelsea and Lyon, and he was at fault for Liverpool's first goal and his ridiculous back pass, lost us a game that we were well in control of. At this level and this stage of the season, we simply cannot persist with such a liability in the side. BAE has also been quite poor lately, but his mistakes are not like Walker's - Walker is on his own in that catergory with a catalogue of errors. Naughton may not offer his pace and attacking flare, but he is more intelligent, and I don't think that he is so error filled as Walker. I think that if we continue with Walker, we are just asking for trouble, and giving the opposition a weak point to exploit. He will be pressured by other teams now because they know that he has a mistake in him. If he isn't dropped and he makes another critical mistake, then I think that AVB will get some of the blame.
Fanman
There's no point in arguing with pelebro lads. I haven't seen him around for the last 12 games anyway lol.
Fanman
I meant to say *should not persist with Walker*
Fanman
We lost but we weren't beaten by Liverpool. We were better all over the park. Walker made a few mistakes that cost us, but we can't hold it against him. Though he's not on form this season, like he was last year. I didn't think we had any width without Lennon and played in the middle of the park. We haven't got the squad to cope with every missing player - nobody has. It's too early to start fearing the wheels have come off. It's one game we lost, but shoudl have and could have won. Not bad after our recent schedule.
SPUDMAN
Who do you put in instead of Walker?
SPUDMAN
And AGAIN pelebro, you refuse to answer my very simple question. Quelle surprise!!
coopsieyid
Fanman - That post (the longer one) is very good indeed, as was SPUDMAN's post too. SPUDMAN, Naughton is the Walker replacement, unless Kaboul is fit, then he's the best RB we have in the club, and he's not even a bloody RB lol.. For the last half a dozen games in the 09/10 season, it was his strong defending & marauding runs, that ultimately allowed us to go on the run that saw us finish in 4th & pip Man City to CL football. In fact it was Kaboul who ultimately powered down the City touch-line, beat 3 men & then put in the cross for Crouch to get the goal that saw us win 1-0 at The Etihad Stadium & seal 4th place.

Hope I answered your question mate :)
coopsieyid
SPUDMAN - According to Crook's team of the week on the BBC, a certain Andros Townsend makes it as right back, although from what I saw of the game he was on the wing!!
yiddyboy
Personally I think Pelebro's last post wasn't a bad post, I tend to agree with what he says, wasn't like his usual all out Enic bashing post (which whether he's right or wrong is getting a lil boring now), and Spurs Eagle another great post about Parker.
Ossie
Pele, do You actually like being a Spurs fan? Do you recall the wilderness we frequented in the 90's and the list of average (I'm being kind) players we had wearing the Lillywhite? Do you recall how we almost became extinct back in 90-91?

Have you not, even one little bit enjoyed the last few years where we are in the mix? Steven Gerrard, the legendary Liverpool captain, came out and said how fantastic it was to get a win against us. let me say that again ... the Liverpool captain was delighted to get a home win against a big team likeSpurs! When has that ever happened! ENIC are not Man City or Chelsea owners. They have succeeded in building a sustainable club model that is admired all over Europe.

As for a striker? ENIC did bring one in, at the start of the season. Adebayor. I'm sure with the benefit of a crystal ball, Levy would probably have passed on that signing, but you can't blame a guy because he can't see the future. As for Damaio? I'm convinced he's not the answer, and for the price Inter want for him, he has all the hallmarks of another Rebrov/Bentley. And like Coops has repeatedly told you, they DID make a substantial bid for him, one which amounts to a considerable investment on a player that is not proven outside of the Brazilian league. I hope we don't bid for him again, because I've always been underwhelmed when watching him.

You can throw all kinds of names if you want, but I think ENIC are doing a great job with this club. As for your stadium gripe? Then imagine any kind of red tape/Bureaucracy you have encountered and multiply to the nth degree when you are dealing with listed buildings, a project of this size, the local council and the bloody mayor to boot!

Just enjoy the football, mate.
SpursEagle
What amazes me is that people get excited/angry/disturbed by some other persons opinion...do you actually throw stuff at your screens when someone like plebro sais somet you don’t like? lol
JattYid
Ossie - there was literally NO FACT whatsoever in the post by pelebro. It was nothing but assumption & ridiculous finger pointing, in the wrong direction, unless you too hold our board & owners directly responsible for our loss on Sunday? That's what his post does, and there is literally 100% NO WAY that he, you or any other member of this site can know about the other absurd accusations within his post. He makes out though Defoe is the only player who's been blamed for Sunday's result, yet you know full well that that's not the case. It's just that Walker & BAE don't fit into his nonsensical belief or opinion. Put more simply,

Do you, he, or anybody else KNOW that Malbranque was moved on too early, to balance those books? The answer is NO. But it doesn't matter that the disaster that was Ramos would have most definitely made that particular decision..

Do you, he, or anybody else KNOW that AVB didn't tell Daniel Levy that he was happy with his options for wing cover? The answer is NO..

Do you, he, or anybody else KNOW that the only reason that Defoe was on the pitch on Sunday is because Levy/Lewis won't pay the going rate for a world class striker? The answer is NO, because we DO KNOW that we put in a bid in excess of £20million for Leandro Damiao, but his club declined it. How high should Levy/Lewis have gone for this boy who's in poor form, been dropped from his National team & has never played domestic football outside of sunny Brazil? Another thing to take into account is the FACT that absolutely NO 'world class' striker had any reason whatsoever to come to THFC in the summer or in January. What did we have to offer them? CL football? A chance of winning the PL? The ability to compete with the ridiculous £200k p/w that the likes of United, City & Chav$ki would pay them just to keep them out of out grasp? Or the fact that we had just employed a manager who was hardly a raving success at his previous club, that's not going to entice anyone in immediately, is it? But again, let's not concern ourselves with important details like that, because there's a queue of 'world class' strikers just smashing down Bill Nicholson Gates, in sheer desperation to play for the mighty THFC.

then there's the ridiculous "brilliant low cost buy by Harry", when referring to Parker. Remind me again WHO SIGNS THE PLAYERS? Oh yes, that'll be the same pathetic chairman & owners who sell them, but that doesn't suit pelebro's ridiculous stance either, does it? So it's best pass the praise onto someone who had nothing to do with it, and heap scorn upon the guy who had everything to do with it..

Ossie - Based upon your past openly stated misgivings about Levy/ENIC, I can somewhat understand you agreeing with the 'principal' of what pelebro said. However, due to the FACT that I am now fully aware that you're a bloody intelligent guy, I am extremely surprised that you appear to agree with the actual 'content' of his post... Surprised indeed young Ossie!!
coopsieyid
I wonder if, in Lennons absence, we could push Walker forward and play Naughton as RB?
My only, slight and it is very slight, bugbear is that at 3-2 down with a couple of minutes to go, we brought on Carrol (great prospect) instead of the more attacking Coulthurst. Nothing to lose and all that.
thfc1882whl
Yes, JattYid. I'm typing this through a cracked screen right now, so please forgive any spelling mistakes! Seriously though, we just need a little perspective. On the pitch, we are far better off than we have been in the Premier League. That's the most important thing. Sure, I want a new stadium too, but none of us here are privy to what goes on behind the scenes in the boardroom. Everything here is based on rumour, conjecture, guesswork, and what is turning out to be the greatest vendetta outside of Big C's personal one with Aaron lennon!
SpursEagle
Just remember boys, as soon as you're referred to as "ENIC PR" or "ENIC thought Police" or "Not a real Spurs fan", you've won the argument & the little boy that is pelebro stands in full view to all, kecks around his ankles with his dinky dingle dangling in the breeze.

Spuds-U-Like
Jatt - There's a significant difference between somebody voicing an opinion, and constantly taking pointless & factless swipes at something that is pretty much NEVER anything to do with the article upon which the comment is being made. Many of us have asked him to explain his reason for his 'opinion', or write an article about his 'opinion', because it would at least then be a relevant platform upon which to discuss it. But no, he continues to just appear randomly & spout his nonsensical diatribe wherever he personally feels it'll fit. Unless you too feel Daniel Levy/ENIC/Joe Lewis, are to blame for Sundays defeat?
coopsieyid
SpursEagle - Wonderfully worded post fella!!
coopsieyid
Wow Coops is all that for me??....lol Ill be here all day reading that, well what i agree with what Pelebro says are, AVB has overachieved IMO, There's no cover IMO for Bale and Lennon, (yes Siggi/Dempsey/Holtby can play there, but to me they aint wide players), The only reason Defoe was on the pitch was cos we didnt buy a striker Jan, Parker runs his heart out for Spurs and gets alot of criticism, and giving respect for AVB for going 100% for top4 and the EL.

I dont think you have ever seen me get involved in any ENIC debate, nor a Levy debate, so not sure where you saw my 'past openly stated misgivings about Levy/ENIC. I have no idea what goes on at boardroom level so I don't talk about it, I only talk about team matters.
Ossie
Yes we need to beat the shat of plebro and big c and make them see sense otherwise they will destroy what is Tottenham Hotspur Football Club...facking inconsiderate batards that they are ;(
JattYid
Coopsie -- "Another thing to take into account is the FACT that absolutely NO 'world class' striker had any reason whatsoever to come to THFC in the summer or in January. What did we have to offer them? CL football? A chance of winning the PL? The ability to compete with the ridiculous £200k p/w that the likes of United, City & Chav$ki would pay them just to keep them out of out grasp? Or the fact that we had just employed a manager who was hardly a raving success at his previous club, that's not going to entice anyone in immediately, is it?"

Spot on. Sadly, that is the reality some cannot grasp.
SpursEagle
Coops if you dont like what he sais or he doesnt answer your questions then y you having a conory about it? Chillax my man, minor blip on sunday...spurs are flying on and off the pitch enjoy it COYMFS!!!
JattYid
thfc1882 - Walker can't cross his legs mate, let alone the ball. I can see your point re Carroll & not Coulthirst though. However, I have a feeling that AVB had noticed that Liverpoo had very much 'shut up shop' and brought on every available defensive unit he could, so I'm thinking that Carroll was introduced because of his ability to spot a pass & hopefully unlock a backline that had become very tight indeed. Just my thoughts there mate. Not really much point in bringing on another 'striker' if we're already unable to unlock a stubborn defence & feed him. Don't know if I've explained that very well mate? I did try though lol

SPUDS - You have now made a habit of putting VERY disturbing images into the heads of members of this site lol
coopsieyid
Jatt - I'm far from having a coronary about it mate, and I most certainly AM enjoying EVERYTHING that we are currently experiencing at THFC. I honestly see absolutely NO NEED for any negativity whatsoever, which is why I am so bloody passionate about what is basically 'slander' against the very people who are ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING that you, me & almost every other THFC supporter is currently enjoying.
coopsieyid
SpursEagle..... Not trying to pick an argument here mate but I've got to take slight issue with your 'As for a striker?' paragraph.
It didn't take a crystal ball to realise that we'd got all we were going to get from Adebayor. His second season record everywhere he's been is miserable, his first touch for a professional player is not even up to Sunday League standard, although his poor first touch last season resulted in quite a few comedy assists. Adebayor was a, hopefully, calculated risk that has backfired in spectacular fashion. Muchlik e AVB was the cheap option when bringing in a new manager. Notice how we waited until no payment was due to Chelsea before bringing AVB on board? Didn't matter that the clock was ticking towards pre season and that we would end up bedding players in during competitive matches, there was money to be saved and that was and still is the priority with ENIC. Luckily for us AVB has proved to be the exact opposite of Adebayor but at the end of the day both are only here because they were cheap.
thfc1882whl
I do what I can Coops, mate, I do what I can. Anything to put a smile back on the forum once that septic bot fly has injected an egg of bile under the forum's skin.

Spuds-U-Like
coopsieyid.... lol@ can't cross his legs. A bit harsh though mate, he's delivered some excellent crosses this season, it's his defending that has been the issue and without Lennon for cover his out ball options are severely reduced.
Fair point re them shutting up shop, they did pack the MF once the got the lead. Maybe taking off the ineffective Defoe would have been a better option, Coulthurst couldn't have been any worse and I'm a fan of Defoe.
thfc1882whl
Ossie - When I said I know about your openly stated misgivings about ENIC etc, i meant that you too (along with many of us) have said you'd have liked the stadium issue to have been sorted some time ago. The way you've explained Defoe being on the pitch = nothing like how pelebro said it, Ossie. you rightly said that Defoe was on the pitch because we failed to sign a striker in january, that could indeed be a fact. pelebro said that the only reason Defoe was on the pitch was because Levy/Lewis will not pay the going rate for a world class striker. Yet Damiao's club confirmed they'd turned down a bid of over £20million, so Levy/Lewis WERE happy to pay the going rate for the striker that it appears is our current managers first choice (I personally think they offered about £5mil too much). But obviously my point is that pelebro is extremely incorrect when he says that Levy/Lewis won't pay any necessary fee for the right player. Parker = Not a single member has questioned his commitment or willingness to give nothing less than 100% on any given match day. I believe the crux of what has been said about him is recognition that he slows down our massively quick counter attacks, via his 'Ten Touch' technique. That's not a dig at Parker at all mate, it's not even slagging him off. It's nothing more than supporters saying what they're seeing with their own eyes. Fair comment?
coopsieyid
thfc1882 - There was NEVER going to be any fee payable to The Chavs, for the services of AVB. The ONLY finances associated with AVB & The Chavs, were that he continued to be paid what he was already being paid by them, until he was employed by another club, then his payments would stop with immediate effect. So AVB himself should be applauded for accepting a significant pay-cut, jst to return to employment & take control of our club. You're bloody spot on about Adebayor though and I still stand by my belief that he was indeed purchased for no other reason but to sell on for a profit & bring in further funds for a better player in the future. Let's face it, based upon his previous clubs, his previous season, and the fact that he is, somehow, a well known name around the world, £4million was a deal too good to turn down. There is, in my opinion, a chance to make a nice little profit there.

Great news though guys.... I've got to go & pick up the kids now, so you can have the site back lol
coopsieyid
thfc1882whl -- Point taken about Ade's second season record.
SpursEagle
Coopsie.. Sorry to disagree mate but my understanding of the situation is that had we signed AVB one day earlier there would have been compensation due to Chelsea as part of AVBs severance package stated that he could not join within a set time limit. I may well be wrong but everything printed at the time pointed to compensation being due if we'd signed him a day earlie
thfc1882whl
earlier.
that's better.
thfc1882whl
coopsieyid...... Trouble is mate, that Adebayor will not allow us to sell him on as nobody in their right minds will touch him with a ten foot barge pole. He'll sit here, take his dough and scoot off to some easy league for one final payday once his contract expires. A bad, bad, bad bit of business and just when we were getting rid of deadwood too.
thfc1882whl
thfc1882whl -- Just had a thought. Imagine Ade went on a scoring spree from now to the end of the season. We'd be lining up here to sing his praises! Although, I wouldn't mind one bit eating humble pie if it meant top 3/4 and the EL trophy. Ha Ha! I won't hold my breath on the Ade part. COYS

SpursEagle
SpursEagle..... Same as mate, I'll happily eat humble pie if it means that the club is successful. It's all about opinions and being prepared to take it if your proved wrong and I've got more than most to hold my hands up to if my predictions are wrong. I guess it's a chance I have to take, given the fact that I'm sometimes an opinionated tw@!
thfc1882whl
Ok scrub 'sometimes' from my previous post.
thfc1882whl
thfc1882whl -- We can ALL be opinionated tw*ts ... just some more than others! lol
SpursEagle
thfc1882whl- I totally agree regards Ade thought it was a bad bit of business and NEVER wanted him I was hoping the deal would fall through but it didn't and I can see he will make it difficult to sell him and yes we will be lumbered with another player being paid for doing nothing and unable to sell.

Ade has shown he is not bothered about playing, he is coming to the end of his career and he will sit it out at the lane and as you say go for one more final big pay. I am not sure how AVB and Levy will handle the situation.

Defoe will cannot be no 1 next season just as Ade cannot so we NEED to get a No 1 striker and if we retain Bale in that position behind the striker then may be Defoe can go back to being a super sub with Dempsey and Ade but effectively that will be five forwards can we afford to do that? May be we will sell either Dempsey or Defoe and let Ade be a sub along with the one that doesn't get sold. either way we need a first team starter who will be consistent and get us at least twenty five goals every season.

I think we will see Hudd and Livermore either loaned out or sold and it wouldn't surprise me if Parker goes if a offer comes in as I really think AVB will want to make his mark on the first team next season especially if we get CL.

In the mean time lets stay positive as we have plenty to be positive about. We were NOT beaten by Liverpool we gave them the game by mistakes which hopefully players will have learned from as individuals and as a team.

It is a team game so individual mistakes are also team mistakes. Ask the questions like, why did Walker attempt that back pass, did another player give him options, make them self available. He could have knocked it out that was an error of judgement but there are also the polarity of every situation and it could be asked whether Walker was given enough help or options. Same with the Defoe mistake, he was working hard to help out the defense, yes he also made a error of judgement but also it could be asked why other players didn't support him and give him options. Same with BAE he could have been less clumsy but he tried to rectify Defoes mistakes it could be asked why didn't other player react to the situation. It is a TEAM game and those who have played football and know their stuff will know individual errors are usually come about through team errors.

We are doing fine and the test now is to see if AVB and the players can come back strong and not let us spiral out of control like we did under HR - when we lost we went on a losing streak, if AVB and the players come back from this then we will have proved we are a stronger team mentally than last season and I believe we will do it as i have seen enough from the manager and the lads to predict we will have a good run in and get CL.
thfan
thfan.. Quite agree mate. Maybe I'm overestimating here but I think that had Lennon been playing, neither Walker or Defoe would have made those errors. Firstly, Lennon always offers Walker an 'out' and secondly, Lennon would probably have been in Defoes position. Granted Lennon may still have made the same mistake. Make no mistake about it, Lennon is as vital, maybe even more so where team structure is concerned, to the way we play as Bale is.
thfc1882whl
wilshere out for 3 weeks, great news for us
Guernman
Guernman, indeed. Liverpool have a relatively easy run of fixtures coming up, and could well break into the top 4, albeit very late.
Fanman
thfan -- Totally agree. 90+% of goals scored can be traced back to some kind of mistake. Mistakes are part of football, without them, we'd be watching robots play out 0-0 draws. The side win as a team and lose as a team. Time to put this one to bed and move on.

thfc1882whl -- Great post on Lennon. I hope you know Big C is trashing his gaff after reading it though!
SpursEagle
coopsieyid, cheers coops. I think that Naughton might get a look-in now, and Kaboul is back in training so we should have adequate cover for Walker.
Fanman
Coops I agree Parker has his limitations, he's not my favourite player, I always say I can't believe a professional footballer can't pass the ball and Im in agreement with much of what you say about him, but I do appriecate (like I know many others ) what he does for us when he plays, thats really what I meant.
Ossie
SpursEagle... Big C is probably cutting the eyes out of Lennon pictures as we speak and pinning them to his 'Wall of Hate'. Probably looks a lot like the wall in my basement that's reserved for ENIC ;-)
thfc1882whl
Hello again guys :).. Some truly outstanding posts since I had to leave to get the kids, THAT is what I call 'support'.. Kudos to each & every one of you :)..

Ossie - Thanks mate, I think we're both reading from the same page when it comes to Parker. the guy IS very good at what he does, that is unquestionable. I just personally doubt that he is an AVB type of player, if that makes sense?

thfc1882 - Literally could not agree more, re Lennon being equally as important to our team as Bale is. Also had a little chuckle at your sly backhander towards ENIC lol. They're on borrowed time with me too BUT, as things stand, I still believe they've done considerably more good for our club, than they have bad. They simply MUST now accept that a significant investment HAS TO BE MADE, in respect of player acquisition IF we qualify for CL football.
coopsieyid
Oh Guernman - I'm sure it's purely coincidence that Wilshere is out for 3 weeks, when there's an International game due to be played in just a couple of weeks ;).. OR I'm sure it's purely coincidence that he's injured for 3 weeks & for some reason needs to be in Dubai to rehabilitate, just after the FA & PL announce they're about to embark on a spate of random drug tests. Not that he's a raging 'coke head' or anything!!
coopsieyid
 

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