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Lets hear it for the boys!

Recalling the comments by Clint Dempsey about the tense atmosphere at our recent home games, I was hoping to see and hear a real positive vibe in a must win game on Sunday.

I often think that when people write such statements, they are demanding that fans simply praise the team blindly and regardless of how they are playing, but it is also obvious, that all too often we as fans have tended to get our panic's in early and get on the players backs if all isn't running to plan after the first 20 minutes or so. At the very least there has to be something in between and despite the feelings from some that when you pay your money, you are entitled to voice your opinion. However aren't we also there to support our team, even when things are not quite as we hope?

As the 'voice of reason', I have never booed a Tottenham player and tend to follow the theory that players don't deliberately set out to play badly or that managers don't pick teams to lose, but these things can happen, whether you are playing on the biggest stage or for your Sunday pub team. Of course I shout and swear at the idiot who gives the ball away or the striker that misses an open goal, but what is always important is that these moans are in isolation(ish) and on balance I support the team, regardless of whether we are winning, losing, playing well or absolute garbage.

This Sunday, our team need us and we need them to put in a top draw performance to beat a City side that have won eight in their last nine games. Even if things aren't going well, lets get behind the players and sing for the team. I never quite believe that the fans become an extra man, but I certainly believe that in supporting as opposed to being critical, eases pressure on players whose performances suffer as a result. Lets at the very least not give the players the excuse that they felt the pressure from the home crowd and instead lets get behind out team and who knows we might get rewarded with three points this weekend...




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday April 18 2013

Time: 9:03AM

Your Comments

if the club are in any doubt about the support, perhaps they should pipe positive chants thru the sound system and ask us to join in or at least drown out any booing...
oxfordspur
Wish i could be there for the boys, those of the site that are going put in that extra passion for me please? I shall be watching from the box.......having kittens as usual although this sunday i do believe it will be fully fledged cats.....COYS.
Jocka101
Couldn't agree more. My only moments of disgust are instant reactions to a mis-placed final ball for example or indeed directed at the officials but never ever have I booed a player or performance. What good will that do? BIG game this weekend, the lads need all the help they can get.
Pride 1882
Jocka101, I wont even be able to watch it live on the box mate. am on a coaching course and will have to rely on recording the game :-(
oxfordspur
Well our home games have been pretty monotone this year, no real inspiring victories that I can think of, loosing at home to Fulham with there shocking derby record and it being such as crucial time in our season, not sure what he expects, the players are the only ones that can relieve the tension, give us something to shout about, the build up has been so pedestrian, chances squandered, Dempsey is as guilty of that as our other 2 strikers. I'm not a booer, but it drives me insane when easy chances are wasted through simple lack of composure. I will always be behind the team Dempsey, but you got a give a little to get a little.
coys1717
Have been thinking of writing a similar article Ox. We need to create a hostile atmosphere for teams to come to. Especially against city. Did anyone see the Everton V City game earlier in the year. The everton fans were on citeh every time they got the ball and thats what we need to do. Make White Hart Lane a ground people hate to come to. I also think we could take a few pointers from European teams... COYS!!
millspur
Ox that is torture pal, not to mention not finding out the result before you boot the sky box up......horrible. What course Ox? I have done my Level 1 FA certificate
Jocka101
PS What happened to the massive drum that used to be at spurs games. That always used to pipe up in quiet moments.
millspur
Of course those of us in the ground will give our full support. Unfortunately because of our end of season collapse over the last couple of seasons there is inevitable nervousness and tension amongst the crowd. It wouldn't be Spurs without it. We must turn that into a positive for the team and the fans. I really believe we should follow the pattern used by many clubs in Europe where they give access to the tannoy system to 'pre-selected cheer leaders' to get the crowd chants and singing going. It happens a lot in Italy, Greece and Portugal. I don't know if it is outlawed here but if not it is a really good way of getting the crowd going and buiilding up a positive atmosphere. It would also be nice to have the big bass drummer back in the crowd. That was always a good way of getting things going positively amongst the crowd. I'm not sure if they'll let us sing 'Yids' with the drums anymore though. One final thing that will help is having a couple of the massive club flags which the fans can pass above their heads in the stands to gee up the crowd and players. Football grounds are a little sterile these days. I know it has been done to make them safer and more family friendly which is a great thing but generating a real buzz and electric atmosrphere is what WHL was always about.
SpuriousLife
Probably health and safety millspur someone might go deaf or get clattered by a drumstick for being a tosser.....you know that sort of thing.
Jocka101
coys1717 - losing at home to Fulham was the killer. Last night our rival Chelsea go away to Fulham and win emphatically... If we want to finish above Chelsea, that is not the best way to go about it... Whilst we have the 2nd best away record in the league, we sadly have the 7th best home record in the league when approaching the Citeh game... I don't often say this, but Man C at home is a must win match in order to give us a good chance of top 4. Anything else, and we would need result at Chelsea or we are relying on the rivals to mess up. At present the rivals are improving...
TonyRich
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your discussion OX, it actually really annoyed me when Clint gave that interview. The fact is, we have all seen this before, and no matter how many times the players come out and say “it wont happen again” until they start playing with confidence and winning games outright there will always be that anxiety in the crowd. 3 points is 3 points, but apart from Inter at Home im struggling to remember a game all season where I could sit back and think “this one is ours”! I don’t agree with booing, nor do I agree with clapping a pass that goes 20 yards off its target. These guys get paid an absolute bucket load for doing what they love (unless you’re BAE) so instead of blaming the fans for the pressure, they need to spur us on. On a separate note, I really thought Fulham would get something out of last night’s game before KO. We will need to play every game like a cup final to get into the top four. Arsenal & Chelsea just don’t look like losing at the moment.
hudderspur
We should import some of the Japanese cheer-leading supporter groups. They spend the whole match facing the crowd (totally missing the match!) singing, chanting, waving flags (rather too large and obstructive for my own personal taste) and generally ensuring that there is no negativity around.
darkenvai
hudderspur - agree with all of that.
TonyRich
fulham are already on their holidays,arsenal will kill them,
ghulamville
There's weight to Dempsey's comments...how else do we explain different Spurs sides, under different managers and coaching staff "bottling" it around this time every year?

It has to come down to the fans and the negative vibe we give off, fearing the worst. How many times have we each said "we must be cursed"..."same old Spurs" etc? Around this time of year, fans enter White Hart Lane expecting us to throw it away, because that's what we do.

It may seem stupid or hollow but maybe simply praising the team blindly and regardless of how they are playing could be the key to finishing above the scum this season.
KierzoSBC
we have to win all remaining fixtures, that's the only way we will guarantee CL football next season, no good expecting others around us dropping points, not at this stage of the season, you have to make your own luck. Congratuations on the arse is tant on the RVP goal last night, just have to hope they are all a yard behind play and defoe should score plenty.
spu 4 life
Agree we need to get behind the lads it is going to be a tense run in and at present Arsenal look up for it and Chelsea have the edge over us. We have to try and get something from our two most difficult games City and Chelsea and then win the rest so we need to make it hard for the opposition and us fans can do our part by getting behind our team no matter what and give the other team grief. Even if we start losing or playing bad in a game we need to stay positive and help the team pick up.

If only had we not lost to liverpool by silly mistakes and Fulham we would have been in a better place right now.

City will be up for it as Utd dropped points so they will believe they can still do it until it is mathematically impossible so anything from this game would be a good result.
thfan
Agree we need to get behind the lads it is going to be a tense run in and at present Arsenal look up for it and Chelsea have the edge over us. We have to try and get something from our two most difficult games City and Chelsea and then win the rest so we need to make it hard for the opposition and us fans can do our part by getting behind our team no matter what and give the other team grief. Even if we start losing or playing bad in a game we need to stay positive and help the team pick up.

If only had we not lost to liverpool by silly mistakes and Fulham we would have been in a better place right now.

City will be up for it as Utd dropped points so they will believe they can still do it until it is mathematically impossible so anything from this game would be a good result.
thfan
and 'we create out own reality' as individuals and as a whole. We think negative and believe we will bottle it then that is what we will create. We live our thoughts. So lets do the club and players a favour as a unit and be positive and if we want to use the law of expectation at least let it be a positive one.
thfan
Totally agree, but maybe we should have a 'top drawer' performance, as that actually means something.... i jest.
spurster
I dont know if i agree with many on this topic, know one that i know of starts the game booing, it generally always positive at the start of home games, the tension is created by the players themselves simple misplaced passes, easy chances squandered, the build up has been slow and often anti-climatic, conceding stupid goals. Take Kyle Walker and Defoe against Liverpool, 2 unbelievable errors cost us a potential 3 away points. I accept that mistakes will be made whether thats in the form of goal keepers error, mistimed challenge etc, how many mistakes can these guys expect to make before everyone starts feeling the tension supporters and team alike.
coys1717
Oxfordspur that chants through the sound system is a decent idea they always seem to do that on the continent & really whip the crowd into a frenzy. Some of the teams across Europe go mental for 90mins not sure if they're always positive but they're certainly lively.
Spurs Allday
Problem is football's become a spectators sport rather than supporters. People sit there waiting to be entertained rather than inspire the players, it's not just Spurs a lot of clubs have the same problem, maybe an influx of prawn sandwich types is the problem?
Spurs Allday
Spurs Allday, you are spot on there .. I live in Basel and i can tell you the organization of chants really works, especially to intimidate the opposing teams. I mentioned it on a thread before the Basel game.. Give Coopsie a bloody great big drum and off we go !!!
spurster
agree with hudderspur, the best thing the players can do is shut up. After the arsenal game we were all far too cocky. Will this serve as a lesson to next season?? No of course not, our fans will still shout their mouths off in November when we are 3rd and then have to eat a face full of abuse in April when we are 5th. We never ever learn. I wish the league would take away CL qualification from 4th place, then we can stop this mass hysteria and support our club for a change.
jimmy-yid
i also agree with spurs allday, spot on son. Football is a money and spectator sport. To hell with the rest.
jimmy-yid
Hahaha, Spu 4 life, trust you! This is more the kind of thing that I had in mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxpZlttQv1A
darkenvai
An appeal for support. says it all. What creates the surly negative attitude Spurs supporters "enjoy". The Evening Standard reporters or Talksport commentators do not help!. But as we grow as a club the booers and moaners may realise the corrosive destructive effect that they cause. So next season will we pay our money to boo again as usual, high paid underperformers, while we are top notch and truly great at our work?
camper
I think the crowd will be right behind the team and up for this one...hopefully City won't be, they can't catch Manu and who would they rather have in top4 us or Arse or Chelsea? both of who can compete with them for players....away from home c'mon City you know you need a day off!!..;)
shedboy2
No tean should expect Top 4 who need to call on the services of players of the """quality"""" of Dempsey and Siggy. That's is how it is and why we need a minor miracle to squeak top 4. That miracle can pnly come if all of the following happen, a FIT and very effective Bale and Lennon from this Sunday on. An effective Defo and or Ade scoring 4-6 goals before the end of the season. No further injuries, a dip in the current form of Man City Sunday. At least one slip up/drae from both Chelsea and Arsenal. And that might nto quite be enough
tophobunty
I took my girlfriends lad to watch Man U against Soton (now we are talking torture but i never payed a penny to their coffers girlfriend paid) but the small pocket of soton boys were out singing the mancs even at 2-1 down. Tremendous it was. Lets put it to the other half of the manc scum on sunday COYS
Jocka101
I'm sure Scotty, Brad and a few others be quite chuffed at being referred to as the 'boys'... as for a hostile atmosphere, I think the likes of Everton at home need to be investigated by Police. it amazes me that you can be allowed to scream blue-murder at someone in public and absolutely nothing happens to you. if the same thing happened outside a ground and the police were present then there'd be arrests made for sure..... Goodison is absolutely sickening when players go to take corners where they're verbally abused inches away Sometimes these animals do it with their own kids just next to them.... maybe cheerleaders on the sidelines could take elliminate this feral abuse, certainly worth a try.
The Gaywalker
all i ever here from comments when people boo is ,we pay our money ,heres a f*******n suggestion ,go and watch the telly and i will buy your tic for a mate and u can boo the telly or go to QPR This seems to happen quite a lot this season with people unhappy about AVB and Dan Levy and people wanting redcrapp back so they get on the players and AVBs back too quickly always SLAGGING OFF SAYING THE FOOTBALL WAS BETTER UNDER REDCRAPP This seems to be a new poison down WHL especially the johnny come lately supporters who expect us to win every game or perhaps thrash every team ,one prattish blogger wrote it is unacceptable that we should draw what the F**K wasnt AVBs fault that we only won 4 out 15 last season or won what was it 1 away in the second half of the season .u lot cloud over issue saying it was much better football ,yea really sounds like it ,that team underachieved bigtime If any of you went last season 1-1 aston villa one of the most frustrating games i have ever watch and a dickhead on the touch line more worried about the newcastle score then to cap it all brought brought parker on to play in front of a redundant back four who ere marking 1 player i have a picture on my wall taken in 1978-79 we went down it shows all the spurs fans taking over the west stand at the end of the leicester game and SUPPORTING THEIR TEAM SHOWING THEY WOULD SUPPORT THEM THROUGH THICK AND THIN and they did following season they did some games 40-50,000 in the ground and it does make a difference SUPPORTING YOUR TEAM BLOODY WELL FORGET redcrapp gone get the F*** over it or sod of somewhere that will take your money please coys!!!!!!!!!!!!
spur1950
With ref to Dempsey. Demspey is attemting to play above his level to a very large degree and as a result has often looked slow, average and the worst player in our team going forward, he has a negative impact on us more often than a positive one. As a consequence of this he gets some "stick" from the crowd. I have sympathy with the crowd but not with Dempsey. There are two parties at fault here and one other party reacting emotionally to the two mistakes made. 1. Dempsey over stretching his ability by playing for a side too good for him. 2. The club buying a player who is not good enough. I emphasise with the crowd on this one.
tophobunty
tophobunty- I disagree with you about Siggy. A potentially great player I think - and good now.
camper
Just another thing i truly believe the team owe it to the spurs boys that got attacked and suffered abuse during the away legs of the Europa league campaign. Blood and guts for top 4 please.
Jocka101
2nd that Jocka
coys1717
Just read the comments from Dawson on the THFC site, pretty much saying the same thing…”the fans need to get behind them”….Im sorry but it just seems to me like they are lining up the excuses. The fact is Michael ,the teams need to up their bloody game! Whilst I agree that when WHL is rocking we can be the “12th Man” they shouldn’t rely on it every sodding game. Like ive said I certainly do not encourage booing or anything else but maybe if they gave us something to cheer about no and again we wouldn’t be having this debate. Yes, we are in a decent league position but the quality of football pretty much all season has been poor! I mean since when have we become the new stoke!! Most of us ignored it or at least tolerated it when we were picking up the points but poor performances coupled with loosing at home to the Fulhams of the league doesn’t give me any reason to cheer. There is a difference in trying to spur the lads on at WHL and HONESTLY singing your heart out because of the football you are seeing. Its like eating a bad meal prepared by the mother in law….you put on a brave face…smile…but you both know it tastes like $hit
hudderspur
Camper, we will see on Siggy, but if we want top 4 regularly he is simply NOT good enough. I would prefer you were right here genuinely but on this one simply you wont be. He isnt good enough at anything to ever be great, at the moment he is a very average prem player at best. Put him in any of the teams above us? NO WAY....
tophobunty
Heard a few cases this season of fans being told to sit down during games or risk being kicked out, how's that supposed to build an atmosphere? All you hear is sit down or don't swear etc. Football's supposed to be a competitive sport & the crowd should be allowed to reflect that but it's become too much of a family, corporate day out to watch a PL game. You can't stand up & intimidate the opposition because you might offend the "guests" & we wouldn't want that now would we!?

spur1950 I have heard some of that myself. The Redknapp era is over & those "supporters" really need to move on for the good of the club that they claim to support. I was against the Jol sacking, especially the way it was carried out but what's done is done & I'd never undermine a new manager regardless of how I felt about a previous dismissal. The now is all that matters.
Spurs Allday
The blood and guts however need not apply to the 'meal ticket' a bead of sweat would be asking too much......
Jocka101
Allday, dead right, we are trying to sanitise football, we have human rights lovies all over all apects of life, of course non stop abuse is not good, but passion is great and passion is not always "positive" in everybody's eyes. Look at me and Camper here today, we don't agree, he thinks Siggy is good possibly great, I think he is average often pants and just not good enough for where I want us to be...we can both be passionate about our views. The crowd must be allowed to voices its opinion, ideally without abuse.... oh and abuse is not only restriced to skin colour...err or is it? i am confused on that one these days.
tophobunty
Off topic but here's an interesting stat:

Possession stats for 2012/13 up until now...

1. Arsenal | Average of 57.2% possession. 2. Manchester City | Average of 57% possession 3. Liverpool | Average of 55.8% possession 4. Chelsea | Average of 55.7% possession 5. Manchester United | Average of 54% possession 6. Everton | Average of 53.6% possession 7. Tottenham | Average of 53.4% possession 8. Swansea City | Average of 52.9% possession 9. Fulham | Average of 51% possession 10. Wigan Athletic | Average of 50.8% possession

7th?!!!
KierzoSBC
for example is this not racist? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22194042
tophobunty
in relation to the article,for me its a double edged sword,catch 22,vicious circle...call it what you will!

if you are singer at a concert and the crowd are booing you after 20-30 mins,it won't exactly fill you with confidence.man u fans never booed them and look at chelsea now their fans have got behind them since rafa's rant.

i think that it might be counter productive to think 'they get paid loads of money,so when they play good football from the first min that's when i'll stop booing'.....its inevitable to get nervous this time of the season,but we should be willing our boys on win,lose or draw and get behind them 105%.right here,right now......COYS!!!
g. roberts testes
Kierzo would be interesting to see thos stats broken down into the pitch divided into the three zone, back, middle and forward
tophobunty
what news of Bale Lennon and Defoe?
tophobunty
Tophobunty:is it racist to try to encourage more black/ethnic minority players to become managers?what is wrong with that?i don't get your point....and no,i don't read the guardian,i'm not a vegetarian and ,beleive it or not,i'm a bit sad that thatcher has died.......oh,i'm also NOT black.
g. roberts testes
tophobunty:so do you think they should be encouraging more white players to become managers?haa-haa!
g. roberts testes
lol topho - I'd bet if you's find a difference before and after Sandro got injured...the latter would have 90% of our possession in the middle of the park going round in circles!!
KierzoSBC
I can understand why Dempsey and Dawson are saying this, we can make a real difference to the match and was proven against arsenal. That was the best atmosphere all season, even at the turnstiles EVERYBODY (not just one or two yidarmy's) were up for it.

But crucially in a game like city (or Liverpool, Newcastle or any non-derby big match) it's up to the players to lead by example. The obvious way is to score 6 first half goals to create a party atmosphere but realistically that isn't going to happen, so other examples is to chase every lost ball, put strong tackles in and show the fighting spirit you want the crowd to take. Aron Lennon against Liverpool done this, he run 60 yards chasing after 4 liverpool players and by the end of it all the crowd were on their feet virtually running with him.
T.H.F.Chris
You've missed the object of topho's point I think g. roberts. The point, I think, is that it's pointless giving any minority an "advantage" with inclusion in a shortlist. The muddled thinking behind this sort of positive discrimination, & that is what it is - discrimination, is that somehow the minorities are being deliberately excluded. There is very little actual evidence of this & the reality is that usually there are very few suitable minority candidates to shortlist.

There are many reasons why this is so. In the case of managers & coaches, there are simply not enough black players taking their badges or even interested in taking them. That is what needs to be addressed. Giving them an automatic place on a shortlist is patronising as are minority quotas designed to "reflect" the ethnic mix of society. It simply doesn't work, all you tend to get is someone appointed who is unsuitable for the task they're given, just to satisfy some mis-guided politically correct mindset. Nobody wins mate, least of all the minority section supposedly being helped.

Spuds-U-Like
Sing up Sing loud I'm Spurs and I'm Proud!! Get em over the line lads!!
SPUDMAN
KierzoSBC- the team romping the title is 5th in possession stakes...Possession ,whilst important is over-hyped these days....incisive football at the right time is what's important, the latest crop of 'managers' to graduate use possession as the platform...
shedboy2
I´ve been doing some run-in calculations after realizing United may win the League at the expense of Arsenal. My conclusion is pretty simple: if we get a draw against City and 4 wins (Wigan, Southampton, Stoke and Sunderland), even losing to Chelsea, will make 13 pts which would lead us to final 71 pts (58+13). On the other hand, if Arsenal loses or get held in a draw against Fulham followed by a defeat by the hands of United, even if they win all their remaining (and winnable) matches (QPR, Wigan and Newcastle), they would end up at the 70 pts mark, 1 pt behind us. Of course, this is just theory and we know how Spurs skillfully master self-destruction processes. However, it proves we still have a good chance of finishing 4th.
AlexSpur
g. roberts testes- if you encourage Black managers at the expense of white..that would be racist. Why are they just talking about Black coaches? what about women? Gay, Lesbian transgender? The law is clear and there should be no discrimination when hiring..how many English coaches are there in the prem?....perhaps we should encourage English applicants....there does seem to be some bias against Englishmen in the prem.
shedboy2
Good point shed. That's the problem with equality, some minorities are more equal than others! :-p

Spuds-U-Like
Well done, Oxford Spur, another of these new much shorter articles that get to the point hundreds of words fewer than before.
Airwave
Unless home fans support Spurs and not just when the side is ripping up the opposition, how can Spurs playing at home be an advantage? Have a good old shout of friendly encouragement, cheer, clap and laugh off some situations, and any Spurs fan watching feels less nervous and tense so can no longer transmit that handicap on to our players.
Airwave
Tophobunty:i apologise.i should have read the article properly before catching foot-in-mouth disease.

Spuds:you're absolutely right,just because they are 5 black managers doesn't mean that they should automatically be in line for a top post....it's ridiculous.

Shedboy2:are you suggesting that chelseas next manager should be a tranny?can you really see a woman taking over at man u when blue-nose retires?i think they are talking about black managers because its disproportionate,(which is true.5 out of 92 or 97.....?),but they should be dealing with this at grass roots levels i.e they should be encouraging all British players who recently retired or are about to retire to do their badges.beckham should be doing his badges now,like ledley.

once again,sorry about the knee-jerk reaction.(humble pie well and truly eaten,face is now egg-free).
g. roberts testes
Alex... Arsenal will not drop any points against Fulham, they were absolut crap yesterday. Maybe they will drop 2 points against Man U, but I'm pretty sure they will win the rest of their games. As I see it, we must win against Chelsea away and hope they slip up against Liverpool and Man U. It seems like we have a mountain to climb.
dannylane
Dannylane, I think we must defeat City and get a draw against Chelsea. My reasoning on the other post was just "the lowest" expectation we can link to from my chair today, that is, what if we got only 1 pt from our two "top 4" competitors ??
AlexSpur
g. roberts testes- no I'm not suggesting that the next Chelsea boss should be transgender (the word tranny could be deemed prerogative!) And why shouldn't a woman take over from SAF? They should be the best person for the job...I don't think that the implied problem this rule would be invoked to overcome is there(this is not the USA)....it seems reasonable that with a population c5% black just over 5% of managers are Black but I do agree 'they' should be encouraging all ex-players who recently retired or are about to retire to do their badges....And I'm not having a pop mate...;)
shedboy2
Arsenal fans have been booing and a section even calling for Wengers to be sacked. Did Arsenal players get effected? Well if they did they didn't dwell on it as they are looking good for 3rd now.
MrSpurs
if it was white promotion would it be ractist testes? the answer to that probably answers you question.
tophobunty
good point Mr spurs average players and average performances will always get booed....the players can do most to stop this..the problem is some are just not capable, they should not complain at this, they should improve go go down to their correct level.
tophobunty
g roberts- derogative!!...;)
shedboy2
Don't want average players and poor performances booed? Don't buy/play average players....
shedboy2
The atmosphere at WHL has nothing to do with it. It's an excuse. The squad collectively isn't good enough. We made CL football in 2010 and haven't kicked on since.
MrSpurs
It's always great hearing fans who have attached themselves to other clubs slagging off those clubs when they are playing the Spurs, because their behaviour has the effect of encouraging Spurs players.
Airwave
Mr spurs, i think its a good point, our squad is not quite as good as last years, chelsea's is better, so is united's
tophobunty
shedboy:here in england,30% of footballers are black,you can't relate the population to how many play football.does that put it into perspective?....no offence taken,we having debate/discussion.

tophobunty:i don't think that's the argument any more,i think its about quality....or is it?in a very indirect way,i think you may have answered your own question.
g. roberts testes
MrSpurs - In reality we are scraping for those extra points now, yet we kicked the season off with one recognized striker. The squad was not complete yet, AND we had a new manager who was still trying to get used to the EXISTING players let alone the ones yet to join... The first 3 games passed before our squad was technically ready to play. We got 2 points from those games - 2 at home, and all 3 against teams in mid-table obscurity... If we had the squad assembled one week before the kick off, we probably would have had enough points to make it comfortable come April... This is all history now - we cannot change it. It is up to the team & AVB now to sort out the home form and come at CIteh like we know we are capable of. THEN it is up to Levy & AVB to sort out the main squad options BEFORE next season's kick off to avoid this problem again...
TonyRich
I can't see Martin Jol getting any of his teams 'psyched up' for any match against teams that could beat us to top four as perhaps was proved last night?....Just something to muse over....
Jocka101
Alex... A win against City and a draw against Chelsea will do for me. Let's hope Liverpool and Man U do us a favour. I believe Arsenal will be out of our reach. We must win at least 4 more games.....COYS!
dannylane
Bit early for an inquest. This season is still very much alive.
Airwave
supporting a team should not be about screaming verbal abuse at the other team's players tho' should it.... its about getting behind your team and encouraging them by singing, cheering and creating a jolly non-threatening atmosphere that youre happy for ypur kids to enjoy... why does working-class have to always equate to feral, abusive, vile behaviour ?
The Gaywalker
I wonder if the owner of our great club Joe Lewis, will bother turning up for such a hugely important game, let alone singing the lads on like the Russian does at Chelsea? Much more likely we will see Baron Sugar up there in the directors box, scoffing on FREE smoke salmon bagels courtesy of his apprentice loser Danny Boy! I think we Spurs Fans do a great job singing our team on, home and away, considering, the losers we have had running our great club for 13 long seasons!
pelebro
NEWS OF THE DAY________We will qualify for the Champions League!!!
krafty007
Pelebro, I don't often disgaree with your sentiment but you're starting to sound a little anti-semitic
Cape Town Spurs
and adding to the article if the manager makes an unexpected substitution dont give him stick wait and see what comes of it last time it looked like it was directed towards Thudd, which was unjust and unfair as he done very well when he took Dembeles place...I really believe we will be playing CL ootball next season!!!!!!!!COYS
krafty007
TR- if only we'd learn to buy our players before the season starts...Levy doesn't seem very quick on that one...SAF already has Zaha ready for next year....Norwich Wolfswinkle...but it's far too difficult for us...
shedboy2
Typical Spurs fans. Players call on us to fire them up and all we do is think about ourselves. #fickle ... Keeps popping up in my head that one. Amazing how we pick and choose the slightest error on the park of individual players yet when our own poor support is questioned we react by blaming the players. Sad to think there are many Spurs fans who would love to see the boys week in and week out, yet our fans sit and moan in the stands. Our support is blinded by our egos... #shamefull
Mix26
krafty007- I'd like to think the fans have learned from that one...I'd also hope AVB has as well....I'd like to see Dembele pushed into the hole like Yaya when he's deemed to be tiring rather than brought off.
shedboy2
Pelebro would prefer Mike Ashley as a club owner... After all u can't buy class...
Mix26
testes it should be about pure equality and in this instance its the best person for the jub...BIG full stop. shouldnt that always be the way?
tophobunty
Mix26...Fickle? mate talk for yourself...how can one person talk about a group of which they are a part in such sweeping terms??...
shedboy2
Or brains mix. How does that song go?

....sing us another one, just like the other one, sing us another one do!

Spuds-U-Like
Good post, Mix26. If what you refer to got brought by the same people into other situations in everyday life, it would be unbearable and impractical enough to be seen for what it really is.
Airwave
Oh shut up mix! I get sick to death with the whole “fickle” BS on here. You cant say a bad word without being called fickle or told to go and support arsenal. Just grow up FFS. It’s a Debate! No, its nothing to do with being a “real fan” or an “armchair supporter” its about paying a bloody fortune to see these players, half of them who cant even be arsed to put in the effort! If they all tried and gave 100% every game but lost then that’s a different story. It’s the fact they yet again they taking the foot off before the seasons even finished. Then they have the Gaul to start saying “well the fans are being mean to us…” get some bollox, pull up your socks and bloody get on with it. Rough with the smooth I say, and its been rough as a lumberjacks arse this last few months! It just sums us up TBH, when the Arsenal fans started booing and holding up Wenger out signs the players took a look in the mirror and came out swinging. They knew the fans had a point. But no, spurs are far too soft for that. They rather just hide behind the manager and let him take the $hit….AGAIN!
hudderspur
Hudders, that is spot on mate, well said.
tophobunty
i think the fact that we have performed better away from home this season does have some bearing on the fact that home atmospheres have not been brilliant. The fans can be too quick to get on the team's back. However it does not help when average players like Dempsey and Parker come out complaining. On a seperate note it looks unlikely Bale will be fit however Defoe will probably be back to sit on the bench. However heard nothing about Lennon yet.
christophski
We can argue all we want about the rights and wrongs of booing players, but the one thing that remains incontestable from a sports psychology viewpoint is that it has a negative effect on player performance. If you want players to work harder and play better, booing at every opportunity isn't the way to go about it.
darkenvai
dark every team in every league everywhere around the world booes its team. It's always been that way and awlays will be. Christop...i posted on an article or two or three or four at the start of the season that it would be easy to set this side up away from home but the challenge was how to set them up at home, it was obviosu then and obvious now...the problem is the management in that way have not quite found the solution and the crowd is quite rightly impatient...average playes don't help, to move forward they ALL need replacing in the summer break/next window
tophobunty
topho u say supporters aren’t stupid yet u think certain players deserve to be booed? In fact you have made your mind up before you even watch the game? In other words Dawson and Dempsey are right are they not? you expect to be served a hot meal yet u rock up late and the food is cold. It's the same attitude people take to work etc... U want to have your cake and eat it... It's really a simple logical understanding, if you see, hear and feel the tension of the person next to then u feel the same, take 35000 fans and u get the picture...
Mix26
Topho - and every team in every league everywhere around the world suffers as a result. Just because lots of people do stupid things it doesn't make them any less stupid
darkenvai
The paid players are there to please the paid fans ,not the paying fans there to please the paid players .It`s the entertainment industry & it`s up to them to give the punters what they come to see .Comedians ,actors ,singers ,sport stars etc have an obligation to justify the huge money they earn by putting on a show .
Go to a concert & the singer mimes ?

Adebayor misses a shockingly poor penalty against Basle & walks away laughing.But these poor millionnaire footballers ,give them love they need it ,that`s bollox .Do your job Dempsey ,you are proper $hit & you`re getting told .AVB needs another summer clearout ,£80 grand a week + & they still moan .Respect is a 2 way thing
big cockeral
Talking of stupid, how about this fella?! http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/thetoepoke/id/2684?&cc=5739
darkenvai
hudder at least u have some fight mate... The key word here was 'TENSE'... I'm sure I wont have to get a dictionary out for u to better understand a 'tense' atmosphere... start again maybe?
Mix26
Can`t even understand the basic concept of footballers not doing there job .You support the club not individuals who aren`t doing what they`re paid to do or even trying .You can lose & still get applauded off .
What a tool
big cockeral
But football isn't just entertainment. Fans aren't mere bystanders who want to be titillated, they have a vested interest in the fortune of the team that they support. Behaviour that runs counter to the interests of the players/team such as exaggerated or persistent booing is tantamount to cutting your nose off to spite your face. You might not like that players get paid fortunes to kick a ball around but still have the temerity to be human beings who are subject to all the same frailties as other less well-paid individuals but that's the way it is. Bitch all you want about the team and/or individuals under-performing, but if you are a boo boy you are part of the problem, not the solution.
darkenvai
CANNOT COMPUTE DARENVAI...MUST BE NEGATIVE...
Mix26
Mix - The key word that got my back up was FICKLE, a word all too often thrown around. Just because I don’t agree with every statement that come out of the players doesn’t mean my views are any less valid nor does it make me any less of a supporter than yourself, or anyone else. I’m merely saying it would be nice if instead of Dempsey saying how TENSE the atmosphere was, perhaps saying that the performances need to improve to alleviate the tension. You have to remember mate that players and managers can have many clubs in their careers, and have many opportunities’s to succeed and perhaps fulfil their ambitions at the various clubs. We supporters, or at least most of us will only ever support one club. Their lies the frustration, it not their club they are letting down. Its ours.
hudderspur
What darkenvai says is logical, obvious and reasonable. Social psychology sounds namby-pamby but then so does much else to do with the science and art of the game if you have the kind of mentality that must brutalise, make crude and be demanding. Rather like you can demand your conjugal rights, but you are on your way to not having a marriage for much longer, and whether you think women should or should not have rights. You can demand service in a restaurant, but you'll be shown the door when it is realised you are not the only paying customer it is possible to have. It doesn't matter which player is asking for something more positive, in so far as they are likely o play at some point and may well be speaking on behalf of other players, it is worth listening. It doesn't remove all your rights as a fan, it is merely a request pitched by players to reasonable fans.
Airwave
mix who said i have made my mind up before watching the game? oh you just did.....who said anything about food? oh you did. We all understand how tension plays on people, the point here is booing will happen and often if not most of the time it is justified...so if you want food masterchef is on tonight but please dont bother me with it.
tophobunty
dark why is it stupid for people who are disatisfied with what they see to show that disatisfaction? why must you call those people stupid,? i sit next to a surgeon quite often when i go, he boos at times, he isnt stupid, he saves lives most days and is one of the most intelligent people i have ever met
tophobunty
BIGC you have it dead right again mate, well said.
tophobunty
To come onto the pitch & put in half a shift is exploitation .Some don`t mind being taken for mugs but some won`t tolerate it .

Explain how Adebayor can miss a really poor penalty against basle then walk off laughing about it ?

If they want to get paid more in a week than the average fan gets in 2 years then they have to take responsibility for that .
There is nothing to stop a player signing a 4 year 80 grand a week contract & then just walk onto the pitch & do nothing ,nothing to stop them .Even fans who subscribe to sky sports are lining their pockets so whoever puts in the pot has a right to complain if they`re not getting what they paid to see .
The relationship between fans & players is forever widening ,because the fans keep getting $hitted on .
Most of the booing should be aimed at Levy ,players cannot sign themselves or pick themselves .
Another end of season collapse because the club is so quick to take take take ,but slow to give anything back .Levy needs to fix himself up in the summer because he has not done his job on the pitch well enough .
big cockeral
It's stupid because it's counter-productive. I'm assuming that you and the surgeon next to you both want Spurs to win. If you do something that hampers that, then you are being stupid. I fully understand the temptation to boo, but giving into that temptation is anything but intelligent. In my personal life I know a doctor who smokes, and another who is clinically obese. They are both very intelligent individuals, but that doesn't prevent them or your surgeon from exhibiting stupid behaviour.
darkenvai
How about next season :- booing newly signed players, manager, substitutions, if not leading at half time, selected players in rotation, Livermore, any young player (Kane) not an immediate star - Oh that's from this year!. Next year we will add to this list for more fun.
camper
Dempsey and parker are right, and booing from your own fans DOES have a detrimental effect.
chrishove123
darkenvai

What comes first the punishment or the crime ?
Booing is not counter productive as it lets the club know they`re not happy & there`s more of a chance of problems being fixed .
Pretending everything is hunky dory when it isn`t is counter productive .Spurs are one of the most expensive clubs to watch & are also the 11th/12th richest club in world football .

So why are we watching such average ?
big cockeral
I don't know who has denied that fans have a right to boo, it certainly isn't me - here or on the countless previous occasions that this argument has been rehashed. What I am saying is that it is counter-productive and fans who want their players/teams to do well but who boo are stupid and cutting their noses off to spite their faces.
As to booing Levy, you might be onto something there, the performances required of him are not sporting in nature and therefore not likely to be adversely affected by a wall of negative sound. The problem is that negativity is indiscriminate and has a tendency to communicate itself to everyone within its cone of effect and you'll still be affecting the innocent alongside the guilty. The prerogative is entirely yours, but at the end of the day, you'll be the bigger victim. You, after all can only profit from Spurs success, you don't get to pocket 80k a week regardless...
darkenvai
darkenvai I have never booed & never as i never get that pi$$ed off about football ,but some fans are much more passionate & get very emotional when their club is not doing very well .
I don`t get why fans if so annoyed ,instead stop going to games .Boycotting games is the best way fans can tell the club they`re not happy .Fans just want to see the players care about the club as much as they do ,just look like they do .They bring it on themselves by being so me me me .Nurses get low wages but save lives ,i`d rather save my praise & sympathy for the unsung heroes of this world that really deserve it .Players know what they have to do if they want to be hero or villain .

QPR are £90 million in debt ,if they go under who suffers ? Harry ? ,players ? or the fans ?
big cockeral
BigC - why would you want to punish the innocent along with the guilty? Why on earth would you want to punish yourself?! That is what persistent booing does. Nobody's suggesting that you applaud pants play, only that intense and repeated negativity be avoided. Anyone who's ever been to a football ground knows there is a marked, qualitative difference between exhorting a team to greater efforts and the wild joy of being properly entertained. Personally, I've never understood the instinct to boo Spurs. When they are playing crap - which has been often enough throughout my life - my natural reaction has always been to shout something along the lines of an aggressive but empathic "Come on!" or "get stuck in!".
Anyway, in answer to your question as to why Spurs have become so rich but remained so average (your words not mine) I can only say that there are numerous factors. One of them, however, is no doubt the quality (or lack thereof) of support.
darkenvai
dark, get real mate, the way you talk suggests you have never been inside a football stadium. its the way the game is and always has been and I hope always will be, its what keeps most of us in love with the game...If you want us all to see a shrink before the game to analyse how we might react when in the stadium pass on the name of yours shrink and we can circluate it to see how much uptake you get...you are off on one your arguments for the sake of it here mate, standard. I am simply saying its the way it is and always has been and for lord sake always will be.
tophobunty
BIGC you might be going round on circles on this one mate with Dark, he is good at that......I am off to see his shrink see if he can stop me reacting...
tophobunty
Yes, Topho, you are simply saying. That's what you excel at. As I've said on numerous occasions in this and previous threads, you and anyone else are entirely at liberty to act as stupidly counter to your own interests as you want - I'm convinced you will - but as long as you harp on about it being the thing to do, I shall continue to point out how stupidly counter-productive it is.
darkenvai
"I never quite believe that the fans become an extra man..". That's an interesting observation of the modern game, the fans and players. Of course, I go back a long way to the early 60's when grounds weren't all seater stadiums, and players might have to actually "face" their fans after the games in pubs and clubs! In the 60's the "Kop" was worth one goal, according to the players at the time, and the pre-match toss of a coin was important. But even recently we have seen, for instance, the passion at Celtic Park in their defeat of Barcelona, where the fans lifted the team. At Spurs in our CL matches the atmosphere must have affected the team. Despite the distancing between players and fans in terms of lifestyle, I still think we can make a difference, and actually make them worry about winning rather than their next contract or pay day or exotic holiday or some model they are going to shag that night!
jacobslad
tophobunty :)

Dark All your doing is slating Spurs fans ,so therefore slating yourself.If 35000 fans boo then how can 35000 be so wrong ?
The only ones who can shut the moaning fans up is the players themselves .

IMO you have it the wrong way round .It`s the lack of passion,effort or productivity on the pitch that filters into the fans .

Same fans during the Arsenal game as the Fulham game .It`s the players that generate the atmosphere by creating a positive vibe with their display .The fans will only react to what they are witnessing .If the players show the wrong attitude then so will the fans .
You reap what you sow
big cockeral
Question:- Can we achieve a top 4 place for again next season for booing?
camper
All players need plenty of clog from supporters if they're not doing it. Enough of this pretentious armchair psychology. I'm as empathetic to them, as they are to me. Let's face it, we don;t give a flying feck about each other. I support the team, but the players ain't beyond a good rollicking, and if they complain, they can always go and get a proper job that doesn't upset their sensibilities. Until I meet the player who insists we stop cheering them too much or desists in adoring the ground they walk on, I will continue to b*ll*ck them when I feel like it. Jaysus, this blog gets more like subject matter for those dried up old hags on Loose Women to get their falsies into. Enough already.
lordjohnny
darkenvai Totally agree with you on this because I have studied psychology and some people on here refuse to see it's relevance in this context and the way it can/eventually WILL effect the player's psyche. It is pointless arguing with them or trying to point out the simplest of psychological tenets because they are either refuse to aknowledge it's validity or are just too ignorant to be able to want to see it. I don't use the word ignorant as meaning thick or stupid, I use it in it's proper context of unknowing as in ignorant of the facts. I thought I had better explain that before certain people here jump down my throat and say that I am calling them thick etc. because they don't know the true meaning of certain words.
chrishove123
Dark, No i would go with my idea and suggested dancers. Just off topic and this is one job interview which i took great pleasure in getting my own back. In employment at the time, i applied for another job, Interview set, time, arrived and sales director and manager came in, normal run of the mill questions, then they started putting my current employer down, ''well i replied our current customer base is very happy with the product we supply and your view is based on opinion'' They then asked what would you say are your Strengths and Weeknesess, by this time i had no intention of joining them and could not wait to get out, so i said, my weekness is oriental girls and my strengths, having two thai girls over night, with that i got up and walked out, saying thanks for your time. Lets hear it for the boys, remember they are not god, so F'em. I know it's not football related, but it may serve some for the future.
spu 4 life
You have to look at the root of the problem & see why fans booed in the first place .
You`re not booing your 10 old son & his mates at his schools sportsday .

Not hard to work out that booing will effect the players ,but the players shouldn`t have made them boo in the first place & that`s the point that`s missing .
Going balls deep on these spoilt brats is embarrassing ,have some pride & let them know if you`re not happy .If you don`t ,there is nothing to stop them from walking on the pitch & just standing there ,like Adebayor .
big cockeral
oh dark, i think somebody summed you up earlier in this thread. I am done with you for one day/week. More to life. BIGC spot on again mate....Chris we all see it as relevent ffs, nobody on here does not understand that ffs, most of us are aged 4 and over. That's not what anyone is saying, what most of us are saying is tough ***** on certain players who dont perform often and take ***** for it..it's the best way to voice your opinion on mass and it's ultimately productive, we just see the bigger picture. ps mate everybody studies psychology every day..it's not exactly the hardest subject to understand, the lazy A level they call it these days.....SPU4 love you long time
tophobunty
"Explain how Adebayor can miss a really poor penalty against basle then walk off laughing about it ?" That would be interesting to see. Is it on YouTube? Some people when acutely embarrassed, grin. How can that be, you ask? Because that is what some people do. Rather like people blush but not for any one reason. It is a personal action. You never saw world champion at four weights Tommy Hearns smile in the ring except when he'd been hit hard and hurt, whereupon he'd grin. Seemingly odd but true.
Airwave
tophobunty ha ha ,it`s like roller skating uphill .Lets spend £200 watching Spurs play $hit but don`t insult the players who more than happily walked off with your money .Please be nice to Adebayor ,i like the way he does nothing ,misses a penalty & thinks it`s hilarious ,shall we all give him a foot massage & help him count his money ? ah ,bless these poor people who have it so bad .I`ll ask him which one of his cars he wants me to wash .

chrishove123 How patronising stating the complete obvious .Dime bar ?
big cockeral
BigC - I'm slating the boo boys, who are only a portion of the 35k that you allude to. The fact that this argument is even taking place on here is proof enough of that. The players aren't the only ones who can shut up the moaning fans, the fans themselves can shut themselves up. I'll repeat - since some people seem deaf to my having already said this numerous times - Fans are totally within their rights to bitch and whine all they want to. I'm merely saying that it's counter-productive. Think about it: if an opposition player has the misfortune to approach a section of the home support, they immediately start up a deluge of booing and catcalls because they are convinced that it will have a deleterious effect on that player's performance. It does. Do it to your own players and it will have the same, if not even more harmful, effect. You don't have to have read anything on sports psychology to know that
I fully agree that players (and managers and owners!) have an obligation to perform to the best of their ability, but the only way that fans can positively affect the outcome of a game is with their support. WHL was rocking with positivity before a kick of the ball for the Arsenal game, and the players responded accordingly. Fans obviously react to what they are witnessing, but they are (or should be!) in some measure of control of how they react. At the Britannia they cheer when Stoke win a throw-in in their own half, as if they've been awarded a penalty. It's ridiculous in the extreme, but it often has the affect of taking a workmanlike side of nobodies to another level of performance and can even cow the opposition into submission.
On one thing we are absolutely in agreement. You do reap what you sow. If you boo your players they will under perform accordingly. At the end of the day, they will still pocket their millionaire salaries and you'll be left bemoaning another season outside of the CL. As I've said all along, it's entirely up to you. But one course is the easy, self-indulgent one, and the other one helps Spurs win stuff.
darkenvai
darkenvai When do Spurs win anything ?
Boring games make for a boring atmosphere & that`s a fact .
big cockeral
BigC - as I've already said, I fully understand the temptation to boo. I also resent that footballers get paid a fortune to do something that I willingly pay to do. But that doesn't change the fact that players respond positively to positively encouragement, and negatively to negative discouragement. There's no excusing Adebayor's utter lack of commitment, but when thousands of people boo him, that negativity communicates itself to the players around him. You don't make him a better player and you also negatively impact on the players who are making an effort. I accept that it's frustrating, but life's a bitch like that.
darkenvai
Topho - you've got plenty of form in wimping out from arguments on here, so I won't hold it against you.
darkenvai
BigC - yep. If only there was this thing that fans could do that would liven up a dull atmosphere and make underperforming players play better, eh? Shame that, best just boo instead.
darkenvai
Foot massage big C? The only foot massage Ade should be getting is from AVB to his backside!

Spuds-U-Like
"If you boo your players they will under perform accordingly"

Exactly my point ,wrong way round

If the players under perform they will get booed accordingly .
Reaction when Bale gets the ball ? Ginola ? Berbatov ? whole stadium gets a lift with anticipation .Siggy ,Adebayor or Dempsey get the ball ? nothing .
For the crowd to lift the players ,the players must lift the crowd .Which is why it`s always best to start strong ,come flying out the traps ,you get that from the beginning .
big cockeral
Spuds-U-Like ha ha .
big cockeral
BigC - as already stated it works both ways. Who stands to lose the most if the crowd doesn't lift the players? The crowd or the players? I've heard Bale get booed, and Berbatov got it plenty! As for Ginola, that's asking a little bit too much of my memory.
darkenvai
Fans ultimately get the team they deserve..... if you think booing players and screaming everytime a stray ball is hit, then you influence the players to not do anything creative which always has an element of some risk to it. they will just run around, make agressive tackles (sure way to fool the fans to like you), and play safe but unproductive football so that YOU (the individual player concerned) don't make that fateful mistake.... 5th.
The Gaywalker
darkenvai I do get your whole point .Losing 2-0 with 30 minutes to go then the crowd can urge them on as it`s not over until the fat lady sings .Not going to get that if the crowd themselves shut up shop .
But IMO professionals shouldn`t need the crowd to play good football .

Would cheering on Jenas make him a better player ? you can`t get blood out of a stone .
Good players play to the crowd ,they love the feeling they get from being idolised .It`s them who create that feeling ,the fans just join the ride .
We`ve had that with Bale all season .Blaming the fans is highlighting the fact you`re not good enough .If you`re good enough the fans will love you ,Gascoigne in a Spurs shirt ? thrived on creating that buzz ,but it started with him .
big cockeral
The atmosphere at the lane has been pretty poor this season and we have been out sung at most of our europa league home games. We need to follow the european supporters who create a crescendo of noise and hate towards visiting teams
whitehartmart
BigC - there's nothing right about the whole contract between fans and the clubs we support. We are all mugs and bitches to a certain extent as the clubs and players hold all the cards. Professionals shouldn't need the crowd to play good football. I agree. Sadly, they do. Nobody should ever miss a penalty. Ever. But they do. So much of what takes place on the pitch is about what's taking place in the players' minds, and that is the only place that we as fans can influence them. As infuriating as it might be, you won't find a single sports psychologist anywhere who will tell you that booing your players will have a positive influence. I'm not blaming fans. I understand frustration at crap performances as well as the next supporter, I just realise that indulging that frustration is totally counter-productive. Venting your spleen might feel good in the short run, but it simply won't help your team to succeed. Sad but true.
darkenvai
Have I missed something? are our crowd Booing individual players on mass during games?...I have heard booing of ref decisions, substitutions but individual players? (people weren't booing Thud)....of course if it did happen it would be counter-productive (not stupid, poor choice of word there). But booing of general play at the end of the match imo is justifiable and helpful for the club to know what their paying customers think of them. Now there will be groans and they are usually involuntary and reflect in an instant what has happened on the pitch...so unfortunately if players don't want groans...play better.
shedboy2
zzzzzzzzzzzz dark.... you are dead right mate I do get bored easily, not everybody bores me, you do....BIGC great one ref foot massage but I will defo pass on that one....great posts again mate.... Bale complains about the crowd a lot does he not?
tophobunty
BIGC if you can stay in this one with Dark you are a better man than me. I am off to do something much more interesting, I promised to hoover the inside of my neighbours garage...............
tophobunty
Topho - you do bore pretty much everybody so you won't be missed. Jog along.
darkenvai
whitehartmart, good point, and it would be churlish of us not to acknowledge when we come up against fans supporting other clubs who are clued up about how to have a positive effect on the club they're backing. That must include clubs whose teams Spurs have beaten but whose supporters were more difficult to overcome.
Airwave
darkenvai That is true but IMO our problem is we just don`t have enough flair players .It`s the flair players that lift the crowd with those odd moments of genius .
Apart from Bale we have no player who can make something out of nothing .Spurs have always had flair players & it`s them that create the excitement & anticipation of what might be coming next .
Football is about entertainment ,Spurs have not entertained enough so the fans have got bored with what they have been watching .The Arsenal game had moments of brilliance ,that filtered into the fans ,nobody wanted to sit down or miss anything ,they were superb .
the Fulham game was & basle games were void of any real entertainment ,we were dreadful .You can`t lift something that is too heavy .Dempsey & Parker silly shots from 25 yards just give moans & groans ,hard to say better luck next time when it`s the 20th time they`ve done it .Fans want to be entertained & want to see a cracking game .
I will never boo ,but imo it might actually get Levy to pull his finger out of his arse ,get that DOF to bring in the players so the fans can see what they paid to see .Problems never get solved in silence ,problems are better shared to then find the solution .
Spurs fans need to realise we`re not that good ,need a better squad & it`s either 5th or 6th .I hope 6th over 5th as that Europa cup gets on my tits .I`m not a fan of it because of the football played in it ,it needs revamping imo .It`s a cup that we should want to be in , but it needs to be spiced up .
big cockeral
Big C- I'm not sure the problem is that we don't have enough flair players, we don't have any! And the way we're playing is to try and build a platform for 'attacks' but at home the oppo just sit deep and don't come out chasing the ball, it doesn't work that well, we need a plan B but seem not have one...it would be nice if we had just one play-maker on the pitch though...
shedboy2
shedboy2 True say ,we have become a little dull & predictable .
If you don`t have any crowd pleasers then the crowd are not going to get pleased .Becomes a catch 22
big cockeral
BigC - I fully agree that the current Spurs team hasn't been anywhere near as entertaining as the Spurs teams of recent times. That wouldn't be the case, if we'd kept hold of your mate, Redknapp (and Modders and VdV) but I'm pretty sure that we'd all be on here bitching about something else. But football isn't just about entertainment, it's also about winning. All other things being equal, a well-supported team will win more than a poorly supported one. Fear of failure is one of the surest routes to failure, and that's exactly the kind of mindset that we're in danger of creating for the team. We can rant all we want about them earning a fortune, but it doesn't change the fact that they are just blokes like you and me who react to negativity and positivity in the same ways. Booing might get Levy to act, it might not. But it'll certainly ruin the confidence of players before it does so.
darkenvai
It is quite amazing that the last several or most posts are agonizing over how players who earn 50-100k per week really are affected by the "fans". Lets be honest, some of the players don't give a *****, unless they are young, have been brought up by the club, and feel allegiance. BAE, Egobayor could swap shirts and within a week would feel no different playing for another club than for ours. Other players do their job, and are professional, for their own ends, but what they think about us is nothing. Dawson, King, Walker, Caulker, Naughton, Bale, different breed. Thats why, like others on here, I like to see a our own young players succeed: better than buying a multi-million journeyman. Thats the difference between a club and a business.
jacobslad
Dark- 'All other things being equal, a well-supported team will win more than a poorly supported one'....were you talking about support from the Chairman? Seems to me there are teams up and down the leagues with great, vocal fans but the teams that win everything are the ones supported by their Chairman in the transfer market...if you have the best 11 players you tend to win more than you lose, regardless of fans support, manager, tactics et al...
You are right however to point out that booing a player won't help, they are only human....trouble is so are the supporters and we all know humans tend to come with flaws, get 36,000 together and you'll have some real gems in there!...;)
shedboy2
Well was in the Park Lane at the Basel game and couldn't believe the slagging off of Ade even after scoring to get us back in it. In fact 2 fans (loosely speaking of one of them) almost came to blows and wanted to take it outside. Ade is all we have at present so what alternative and as I have said many times before, I go to support the team whoever is on the pitch. At the Everton game I was in the Paxton and sat nest to a woman who "supports the club but not the team". "Hates Dembele, Dempsey and thinks they are rubbish". When I mentioned that earlier in the season we thought he may be an improvement/on par with Modric she thought I was the only one who thought that...... Oh apart from her son which I thought was funny as it started a row. When Dembele was taken off to some derision around the ground, I think my point was proven. I just cannot understand some peoples thoughts about their TEAM / CLUB, and to me is one in the same.
CoysRus
Shedboy - as I said, all other things being equal. Take eleven equally good players, paid equally royally by equally wonderful chairmen and set them against each other, and you'll find that it's the team with the best support that wins.
As I've said umpteen times on this post, I understand the urge to boo. I even understand how some people are unable to resist it. That doesn't change the fact that it's counter-productive and the victim at the end of it all will be the supporters. Point the finger of blame at who you want, it's the fans who end up getting poked in the eye.
darkenvai
big cockeral Well SOMEONE has to point out the bleeding obvious to people like YOU because YOU just can't see it.
chrishove123
Big c direct quote from YOU, kettle black and pot come to mind, just stating the obvious. There is nothing to stop a player signing a 4 year 80 grand a week contract & then just walk onto the pitch & do nothing ,nothing to stop them .Even fans who subscribe to sky sports are lining their pockets
chrishove123
COME ON YOU SPURS AND WIN WIN WIN
Madaboutspurs
Personally I wouldn't boo a player, but when someone has paid the best part of £100 quid to support his team I think he/she has a right to air his opinion however he sees fit, providing he/she remains within the law. Someone pointed out that players all react differently when having a mare, why should we expect supporters to all react the same when witnessing that mare? I agree that booing can have a negative effect on the team but we've all heard the stories of some players needing an arm around them to make them perform and others who react better to a kick up the backside. Surely the boos would act as a spur to those who react better to the kick up the backside? I think everyone can understand that these guys are entitled to a bad day at the office, it's just that for some of them they far outweigh the good days.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, everyone is different and will always react differently in these situations, although booing may seem wrong to some, other people will find it hard to understand how people remain quiet when watching an abject performance.
thfc1882whl
I actually think its up to the manager and players how we react. If they continue to start games at home with this slow "measured" king of tempo, how do they expect us to raise our voices and make loads of noise?? Fulham, Basel and more games then I can name they have started like this and ended up with poor results!! Even harry got them more fired up most games when he was here...........COYS
WestStandEnclosure
thfc, that's the way it is mate well said. the problem on here is that some people thing everyone MUST clone up and comply to their way of thinking. this thread is a good example of that. You have it right here mate...
tophobunty
Cape Town Spurs, I guess you have never tried one of Danny Boy's over priced bagels he flogs up in the west stand, in his over priced, tacky, corporate hospitality lounges. I was unfortunate enough to find myself up there on one occasion as a guest. What a nightmare! I really appreciated the shelf side after that terrible experience! I will never forget the great Keith Burkinshaw's words as he resigned before the start of the 1984 EUFA Cup final when he brought Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, it's last European trophy. When asked why he had resigned, he quite simply turned and looked up at the west stand, in the direction of the directors box and explained, in nine simple words... “There used to be a football club over there.” 29 years on we still have the WRONG people running our football club as the empty trophy cabinet and lack of new stadium 100% proves... Nothing to do with religion whatsoever! Just a total lack of class at the top!!!
pelebro
Peel, why do you "support" something you dislike so much? Can you explain that, it puzzles me. No arguments please, just try to help me understand you and your opinions.
tophobunty
or i could put it another way pele, what do you like out spurs? maybe a couple of things? something positive that gives you pleasure from supporting spurs today?
tophobunty
Well, its only friday morning but the nerves are already kicking in for me. Just been casting my mincers over the remaining fixtures of the red/blue scum and the blue noses up north. I feel we should be winning 4 out of our six remaining fixtures against Wigan, Soton,Sunderland and Stoke. If we can't in these matches at this stage of the season then we really don't deserve top 4. If we succeed in winning those 4 matches and get nothing out of the other 2 i am convinced we will guarantee 5th and giving the fixtures the blue scum have i feel it will 80% in our favour that we finish top 4........this is a hope more than belief...sadly - COYS!!!!
Jocka101
Morning Topho. I hope you're well? I'd just like to say that I'm fully behind your views regarding this article. If the performance on the pitch isn't 100% in terms of player commitment, effort and ambition then they should fully expect to be told that is unacceptable by the crowd. It's as simple as that. Footballers need to stop behaving like sensitive, fragile luvvies. They are well paid professionals and, in the most part, shameless financial mercenaries. Put in 100% effort and we will recipricate with 100% support. After all, they get paid every month whether they put in a shift or not. We have to pay each week to go along and watch what they serve us up. We don't get a refund if the effort isn't there so they should expect us to show our displeasure in the peaceful but clear message sent by a chorus of boos.
SpuriousLife
Without waning to put words in Pele's mouth, I think an anology may help to explain what he likes about Spurs. Try to think of it like renting a house. You love the house but hate the landlord. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the feeling I'm getting. Perhaps Pele can elaborate.
SpuriousLife
Targeting a player whether you think they need tough love or an arm around the player from the stands isn't really what this article is about. It’s the part about turning up and getting behind the TEAM for the ninety for the last few games we have is what it’s getting at. It’s a tough ask for some, but even if we are losing at half time in a game, and can continue cheering, supporting the TEAM like we were winning 9-0 then it Will spur them all on. Win, Lose if we have all lost our voices by the end of it then we have done our part. The players will not be able to ask any more from us and should be proud to wear the colours. I have seen some cracking support from the opposing fans in other games it can truly be a sight to see, and you can see the effect it has when it ripples down to the team, the players. It can help players to pull that little but extra out of the bag on the pitch when it’s needed? The Spurs faithful can do this, have done this and should now think about bringing this A game starting with City. We want the players to pull together too for us, but it’s about setting the stage for them, and supporting the best way you can. I’m planning on doing just this, with the lads, going to put a pin in this tough love or arm around individuals for now. COYS.
SpursOne2
SpursOne2 - you are so right. It really is a tough task for those who incapable of untangling their entitlements from their interests.
darkenvai
SpursOne2 and Darkenvai - I agree with your point but I also see it from the other perspective too. It's a chicken & egg situation. Do we in the crowd set the atmosphere for the players on the pitch to respond to or do we in the crowd respond to the effort being put in on the pitch. If the former was always true then those clubs with the most vociferous and passionate supporters should be the most successful. Man Utd is more like a corporate boardoom than a raucous football ground. Same at the Emirates but the clubs do OK. The reverse is true at West Ham where the crowd are very passionate but the team isn't exactly pulling up trees. It depends on all of the factors that have been discussed throughout this thread - talented players, passion, ability, respect, effort and desire from players and fans alike.
SpuriousLife
Seems to me you describe it well Spurious, it certainly appears the players, not all I am sure, have very little respect for the paying customer. The game has changed so much and in this way not for the good.
tophobunty
darkenvai - Yeah, let’s do all we can to make WHL a wall of sound for the lads, that goes to everyone and me. SpuriousLife - I hear you and yeah of course it can be like the chicken and egg, but it’s late in the season and we have to take our chances now. What we can do is give 100% from the start to end. The team need to do the same, if they let their heads drop for a moment then we will be there to back them up, and vice versa .. if the players want extra from us should we slack off then they can call for more from the fans themselves. I don’t want to be the fan who walks away with his voice at the end : -) It just won’t feel like I’ve done enough. COYS.
SpursOne2
Spurious... it think it goes like this. Have we ever heard a crowd boo it's team onto the pitch at the start? I think not. So the mood for the event in this case is then set by the performance of the players and in more general terms what happens on the pitch, the crowd then reacts. If a player scores does he complain about the crowds reaction? NO. If a player doesn't play well does he complain and about the crowds reaction? Well some do and herein lies the problem. Do players who play well complain about the crowds reaction? Probably not or very rarely. Do we all understand as fans cheering the side on is always the best way? Of course we do. Are we as a crowd capabale of as a man/woman always reacting prositively even when we are viewing something negative? Of course we are not. I see it your way as I think most people exercising common sense would. There are those who want to argue for the sake of attempting to prove something which everybody understands in the first place. It's happening again here on this article. It's a bit odd and more than a jiffy boring.
tophobunty
My confidence is not as good as I hoped it would be at this stage of the season...and i think this is one of the very main reasons why, Gylfi Sigurdsson Positive of Spurs Victory Against Manchester City Inside Futbol 09:37 I have not even read the article, the headline and the claiment is one of the main reasons for my current lesser confidence.
tophobunty
Topho - if you'd stated at the outset how you are so utterly incapable of controlling your behaviour in the face of a wee bit of adversity, we all would have understood. Your shortfallings are not lost on us. But don't go blackening the names of all your fellows, because there are those among the crowd who understand the sense and benefit of cheering on their team through thick and thin and are prepared to forego the momentary pleasure of giving into their baser natures to the detriment of the team.
darkenvai
you are all missing the point.... booing players may make you yourselves feel better momentarily but it will, generally speaking, cause players to lose confidence and thus play worse - which ultimately means that the team suffers and wins less games.... thus the team 'supporters' (ironic name for them) act as a direct agent in causing their own team to lose more often... FACT.
The Gaywalker
Booing players is not the way to go, but if I was on At least 30k a week I'm sure my skin would be abit thicker then some of our more sensitive players?? COYS
WestStandEnclosure
Dark here you go again mate, who said i am so utterly incapable of controlling my behaviour? oh you did again....do you see the pattern yet Dark? I have been clearly saying how it is in every football stadium today and always has been, I have also stated I fully understand why people boo, it's not an easy thing to understand. Do i boo? no and never have done. Do I get frustrated when players dont play well often? Very much. Why do you need to change what I have said (i have said it repeatedly) into something you want to say to suit your purpose, which just happens to be personal? it's not a great way to be is it?
tophobunty
No, Topho, you have not been saying how it is in every stadium today, because there are numerous grounds where the support get behind their team through thick and thin, where they don't boo a poor performance at half time, where they don't boo every touch of their senior centre back, where they don't boo a substitution before the results thereof have yet to be seen. What you have been describing - and accepting as perfectly natural - is what has been going on at WHL this season and what has prompted Dempsey's remarks and this article. You've been apologist for it, and I've pointed out that its counter-productive. You've thrown your usual hissy fit and flounced off and then come back with some sniping little comments, and then you get all sensitive about me teasing you for your behaviour and trying to get all literal on us. The only pattern I see emerging is that you are a bit of a wimp when it comes to arguing on a forum. That, given where we are, is most definitely not a great way to be.
darkenvai
dark read all my posts on this thread, i am saying the same over and over, its how it is in every stadium fans boo and always will, read my posts before stadium personal things about my character, its a pattern of yours and it's dull. lets meet up and we can discuss the wimp issue. why not at a home game before the end of gthe season
tophobunty
Topho - Yes. The thing is the thing that you are saying over and over and over again, and being an apologist for is wrong. The situation that you describe, the arguments that other people have made and you have backed, are not true of all stadiums everywhere. There are stadiums you can go to and you won't here a single boo from the home support aimed at the home team. There are others, like ours, where it's become endemic. You think that's natural and okay. I think it's counter-productive and stupid. As for making personal statements, you would do well to read through your previous posts to me on this and previous threads before getting all sensitive. As for meeting up and discussing the wimp issue. Whenever you want, fella. I'd like to think you've got a bit more backbone in real life than you have on here.
darkenvai
ps Dark my "hissy fit" when i "flounced off" was actually going out to dinner with 9 other people last night and jolly nice it was too. It's called having a life. Got to have a hissy fit now and go into two back to back meetings. hisssssssss
tophobunty
dark, we can meet but i would find us to find a foolproof way of me being sure it was you i was meeting and i would prefer to meet alone. need to go now hissssss.
tophobunty
Pistols at dawn at a place of your choosing then. I think we should have seconds though, so that there is evidence of you wimping out when it all got a bit too complicated for your little noggin to handle. A word to the wise. You might get more out of your meetings if you try it face to face ;-)
darkenvai
sorry dark dont understand you. standard.
tophobunty
 

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