UK time is: 18:44:20
Vital Login
Social Login

Choose your club

Other Sites

Network Navigation

Vital Partners

'If It's Football, It's Vital'

New Stadi...UM !!.

Lots of talk doing the rounds of late suggesting Spurs have ditched their current stadium build plans, and have appointed Populous (Olympic Stadium, Emirates) to redesign the stadium with a view to allowing Football and NFL to be played at White Hart Lane, by way of a sliding pitch.

The new stadium would see the capacity rise from the original 56 000 reported, to somewhere in the 65 000 bracket. This therefore raises my first question, surely we as a club would have to go back to the planning application process once more?, very time consuming, and frustrating for many. That said, if true, it would enable the club to accomodate a further 9000 paying fans (40 000 awaiting season tickets by all accounts ).

With an NFL game a season currently being played at Wembley (increased to 2 this year and 3 next, it may just be that Spurs as a business want a sli! ce of the action, why not?, Wembleys profit for staging such events is based at between 500 000 and 1 000 000. Spurs may just be looking at the bigger picture, and not only offer an alternative to Wembley hosting games, but forming a partnership and actually having an NFL team as a tenant. This would allow for a split of the gate receipts, whilst still being able to charge hosting costs. That could equate to millions per game. 8 a season are played at home.

This scenario could put us on a collision course with the FA, but only over the 2-3 games we could hypothetically poach, because an NFL tenant would have to have use of the venue from summer to the following January, something i doubt the FA and Wembley could accomodate. So on that basis, maybe we will steal a march on others, and react to Roger Goodell (NFL commissioner) when he spoke at a sports journalists' lunch this week...'The great thing about our fans in the UK is that it seems they want more and mor! e. And we want to deliver that. I've often said i don't rule out that there could be a franchise here in the UK. If it continues to grow that is a real possibility'. It appears he is keen on establishing a franchise in London after the success of a series of one-off matches.

If these new developments are to be believed then there is a lot to consider. Where will the sliding pitch be housed?, time delays and added costs. We seem to be building a rapport with our neighbours across the pond, maybe this is going to be the next step. Calculators at the ready...Money men at Spurs...Over to you.

Written by Cider Spurs.




Use your social login to comment on front page articles. Login using you Facebook, Twitter, Google or LinkedIn accounts and have your say!



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

The journalist

Writer: Cider Spurs.  Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Sunday October 27 2013

Time: 12:00PM

Your Comments

it also begs the question over the potential for major US investment in the building of any stadium, as well as increased revenue from NFL and other ventures, as well of course adding another 9000 seats for every home game
oxfordspur
A game changer with regard to naming rights as well - plus for the local council - even more jobs! Financially makes sense - only concern - this sliding pitch technology!
scoops50
Isn't it the stands that slide back and forth and not the pitch?
Lee Morgan
I think it's very exciting. Obviously the bump in attendance is the headline grabbing element in this, putting us only behind Old Trafford in terms of club ground capacity. But I'm also very excited by the dual use aspect. I don't much care for American football, but I'm a big rugby fan, supporting Saracens, who despite having a brand new stadium of their own, regularly decamp to Twickenham and Wembley for big matches. If we could host those matches too, I'd be in seventh heaven!
Back to reality, however, my understanding was that the 56k ceiling for the original NPD design was set by transport and local infrastructure limitations. I'm not aware of any improvements that have been carried out, or indeed, even planned, that would solve this problem. Hopefully, if we've got the ambition, it's because we know, or are confident that we'll get permission build the stadium to the bigger specs. Fingers crossed on that one.
darkenvai
It's a whole different surface that slides across so that the pitch doesn't get churned up by the the twenty stone+ behemoths running around on it
darkenvai
Big Big Question is. If it happens and then goes tits up, who cops the bill for building the then unwanted structure? We know the yanks will probably walk away as they are only tenants.
4everaspur
Couple of questions

i) When is NFL season ii) Is these NFL games that are staged in Wembley are friendlies (like our preseason tour) or actual league games ?

As most know, I am not in UK, I do not know how good is the game popular. Just wondering what's the revenue stream long term. Even heard taht are possibilities of new franchises or relocation possible. If these games are indeed league games, I am wondering about the logistics from the teams commuting between states & UK and the game time.
sydqcb5
I always wondered why the new stadium didn't have the capacity to hold more and so I would welcome an upgrade on the design especially if it was to hold 90,000. If your going to build a brand new stadium and pay all that money you may as well get the best capacity possible.

I think there is stuff going on behind doors with America and possibly other countries that we are not aware of and it wouldn't surprise me if we make a big announcement soon regarding the stadium, naming rights and so forth. I want us to get the best capacity possible and at the same time keep the great atmosphere and have great facilities and incorporate the community, families and bring in more revenue and tourist and jobs.

I want people who visit the capital to say we must go and see WHL just like people do when they go to Barcelona. Our time is coming. We are not far behind the top four clubs and we can push on and make a challenge to get CL football. We have raised our profile with recent players we have brought in and made into great talent. Modric, Berby, Bale most expensive player and soon we will continue to do this but the difference is we will keep these players because in a few years we will be title contenders. We have potential to become a top club in the World as long as we stay competitive and sensible and continue to build gradually. If AVb has a good season i would like his contract extended for another three years to take him up to four years because with the young players we have it will be in the next three or four years we will see the best of them and have a great squad with lots more experience.

Short term goals CL and may be good runs in the cup. Medium goals, maintain CL, building of the stadium and increase global connections and fan base. Long term goals, move to new stadium, increased revenue through global connections and pay off stadium and maintain CL, final goals PL and CL challenges. This is a ten to twelve year plan imo with the next five years being crucial for stability on the pitch with these young players and management. With our management working well together Levy seems to be more concentrated on global, financial matters and the stadium and all is looking good, other than the not so nice to the eye performances on the pitch but it will improve and we are doing fine, getting results and staying in the mix while the hard work is being done in training and coaching. COYS
WorldPeace
Well i for one can see the attraction, and with the odd game already being played and talk of a lot more in the future, why should it not be Spurs who take the plunge and look to benefit. My closing comment in the article was about the Spurs money men. You can be pretty sure that all pros and cons, including loss revenue from time delays, increased build costs etc, will be factored in. But they will of course be looking at future revenues that could be generated, markets that could be opened up as a result. Way too much for me to even try and detail. If it means a whole host of improved revenue from different streams, then i am all for the long term plan as opposed to sticking with the original thoughts. This could put us on a whole new playing field, quite literally.
Cider spurs
Has the joint use of a Football stadium by NFL worked anywhere?. If we add ex amount to the stadium cost, how many NFL games at ,1000,000 profit per game will be required to break even. - 10 years at least?. I do not trust any involvement by American NFL franchise's . Every project exceeds its budget, this proposal will certainly a worst case example.
camper
sydqcb5...NFL season usually starts late summer and runs until January. Those who qualify then play in the play-offs in this month, with the Superbowl usually in February. Don't know if this is always the case, but doubt it is too wide of the mark.
Cider spurs
More I see the recent developments, more I see a strong possibility of the tie up.

Start of summer, we had that hilarious NBC ad taken at hotspur way with theme that a NFL coach takes over as Totnum coach. Then last week, visit of 49ers at Hotspur way again.
Also the fact that we went through a year of pain to design the stadium & get the planning approval only to change the stadium plans again.
All these things points to this being very real. If a NFL game indeed gives a revenue of 500k to 1m then thats big indeed. Think about the possibility of TV money ifthis thing becomes big...Daniel Levy would have hit a jack pot
sydqcb5
camper, from the limited info we have, the only extra cost I see is the cost of sliding pitch.
sydqcb5
camper...Wembley currently recieve 500 000 - 1 000 000 profit per game, but if we are able to secure a NFL team as a home tenant, not only are we able to charge for hosting, but we can get a cut of the gate receipts. Add to this the marketing potential and other revenues that will be generated. It soon turns into millions per game, now as stated, i do not have all the figures, but an increased capacity of almost 10 000 for football alone is going to generate a good bit of extra wedge. There is a really good oppurtunity here presenting itself, and it is one that i feel we would be damn foolish not to explore at least. White Hart Lane the home of Soccer. ;-)
Cider spurs
The benefit of having the sliding pitch, is not limited to a link up with an NFL franchise. It allows all sort of sports and events to be held at the stadium with no risk to the football pitch beneath.
darkenvai
darkenvai..exactly..The revenue streams in theroy are endless.
Cider spurs
In the last 15 articles, including todays, only 5 of them have got above 100 responses (144, 684, 228, 345, 117)

In the last 15 articles, only 8 of them have got above 50 responses, (144, 684, 228, 345, 117, 92, 70, 61)

In the last 15 articles, 7 of them have achieved less than 35 responses, (31, 33, 27, 2, 7, 23, 11).....

Mr oxfordspur, remember how I told you that the site would lose traffic because of the previously banned members still being on the site? Looks as though they have the place pretty much to themselves these days, it's just a shame that yourself & 'The Fear' have wasted all of those years, only for the best & busiest Vital site out there, to rapidly become just like all of the rest, ie sparsely used. It's not long ago that all articles would have a minimum of 200+ responses, but now it seems that a maximum of a third of all articles can attract upwards of 100 responses. You'll also notice that there's been a lack of new articles being submitted, too. And this stems from the continuation of responses from just a couple of members of the site, what a bloody shame!!

coopsieyid
Well said Coopsieyid.
thfan
On the face of it...this is a great innovative idea. More and more the requirement is to be of a Multiuse facility. May even incorporate a extension to the training ground and it's superb location and facilities.
82spursdebut
Thanks for the comments, but I remain sceptical that American spin, hype and can do bluster present a great risk for us.. The Americans would not be in it for our benefit but for there own gain. But I would happy if it was a successful enterprise.
camper
More delays...tut..tut. I hope I live long enough to see Spurs new Stadium. (said very much in frustration).
vicspur
I think it would be brilliant for Spurs. Remember we tried to get the stadia in the Olympic arena and failed. The plans from ENIC were highly ambitious but now these ambitions could happen with the help of the yanks. Not only would we benefit from the tenants but the ability to stage concerts and the NFL will provide crazy revenue. With the sliding pitch why not house a tennis court as well for a major tournament? COYS!
James1
I did some research on sliding pitches. There are only 3 well known sliding field stadiums in the world i) Sapporo dome Japan used for base ball & football ii) Schalke stadium iii) Univ of Phoenix NFL stadium

All these stadiums are multipurpose stadium.
The benefits are i) Turf is grown in natural light
ii) stadium can be reconfigured anyway so that it can be used for multipurpose say concert, different sports, boxing rings wrestling etc etc without doing any damage to the playing turf

For Phoenix univ stadium it took extra 19m pounds to have this feature.

Sapporo dome transformation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q24--xddtM
sydqcb5
camper..After the yanks have been levy'd, they'll probably pay for the lot. Lots of ifs and buts. If we can pull it off however, i think we will be the envy of the League. Can't deny relationships abroard have been forming well of late, the US seems to like Tottenham, and i think this could be the start of a very rewarding period, both financially and football wise. I am really excited to see if we can bring this to fruition. I want the best for my club, and this sounds amazing.
Cider spurs
Some pictures of Schalke stadium - exterior & interior (after & before transformation)








sydqcb5
Thankyou for article and photos......100% on agreement with Cider spurs.
82spursdebut
Impressive! Thanks for the pics mate. It really gives you a good idea how spectacular the THFC grounds could be. COYS!
James1
The NFL have been talking up the possibility of a UK franchise for about 18 months. IF it were to happen then the only logical base would be in London. That said wouldn't the Olympic stadium be a more popular venue, and cheaper option? That said, assuming the playing surface for Spurs silky skills is protected, the extra capacity, revenue and prestige appear a "no-brainer". Obviously, this being a Spurs fan site, the concern I would express relates to the potential to further delay of completion of a new stadium while the revisions are approve (which I am sure they would).
Ken Dagnall
One difference though is,all the 3 stadiums which have sliding pitch also have retractable roofs. I don't know if this is in our design. It makes sense to have retractable roofs as that would provide complete indoor arena atmosphere. But obviously the cost could go a bit north.

But if this is a possibility it makes sense to think someone like AEG could be our sponsor - a custom built entertainment arena instead of just a football stadium.
Yes, the traditional sense of Tottenham football stadium could be lost - but we are in modern times where everything evolves. I would rather have such a arrangement than our previous planning of moving the location to another suburb
sydqcb5
I've got a mate who works at Spurs and although he's only a program seller he is a very good mates with Daniel Levy, so he's the best source for info at the club. Straight up he is! Yes the reports are true about the club installing a sliding NFL style pitch to compete with events at Wembley, but Levy also plans to hold athletics events at the stadium, so there will be a running track installed as well, with state of the art retractable seating designed and installed by the same company who are working for Wet Spam at the OS! Danny Boy is building a multi functional stadium that will open in 2023, and if my source is correct, which he also is, it won't cost ENIC a Penny my boy...
pelebro
pelebro HA HA you do crack me up :)
We sing what we want
Lol..pelebro...maybe he should follow the Picketts Lock Design....i.e....see thru windows and a Perspex roof !!.......then he can sell Hot Air Balloon seats too !!!...lol
82spursdebut
pelebro And you get slated for your posts ? Only one bringing it down is the `one who shall not be named`
We sing what we want
Good to see Coopsieyid back. Hope he stays around. Great research Syd, cheers for that. And funny enough Pelebro could be closer to the truth than he thinks :)
thenuge
I am fast beginning to realize that at 71 years old, I will not live to see the new stadium open, particularly if the powers that be don't yet know definitively what they want, with the designs to be torn up, and binned, and the finish date inevitably being pushed further and further back.
Frank
Not trying to be too negative, but all I see with these announcements are further delays. Don't really see how the NFL tie in will work either at Spurs or over here in the league. Unless I am wrong, I was under the impression that the stadium capacity was limited due to local infrastructure concerns, and I havn't seen anything in the media to say that that has been overcome. At this late stage in the process, I'm extremely surprised that Spurs have come out with this change in direction RE with the type and capacity of the stadium it wants. This should have been defined clearly during the first planning permission application. Anyhow, as far as it goes, I can't see a multi-purpose stadium for 65K working in N17, and the powers that be won't allow it to out compete Wembley or the OS for the juicy events. Wish we would just stick to building a football stadium that we can get finished within a reasonable time frame.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Cleveland...Good point made about infrastructure, along with darkenvai. It may just be that all parties concerned feel that they can get a 65 000 capacity past the planning powers. One of coops itk posts suggested that it would raise the height of stands by 15 metres, but yes, transport and parking etc, would have to be factored in. The fact that this stadium may be a multi purpose venue, might go some way towards sweetening the local authorities in the sense that they may be in a position to arrange events on a grand scale and add a much needed boost to the local trade economy. Concerts, etc...people will want to eat, drink sleep somewhere. The benefits could be huge, so my thinking is that if we do think it viable, and we can work in unison to please local authorities, that they too would find this new project even more beneficial to the local economy.
Cider spurs
What is hilarious is the unpaid supporter of ENIC getting upset that the site is allowing critics of them, and maybe the is is losing popularity. I thought, according to Coopsie that the development had started. I suspected he was an ENIC plant and a funny one at that. It seems I was right. What's the next idea? 12 years and waiting.
5thcolumnist
Thanks for killing it 5th.
aycee
My hope is that changes to planning permission requirements, and a local council environment which is more receptive to (desperate for) investment have widened the goal posts regarding infrastructure capacity. It might also be that ENIC know about planned upgrades to transport links that haven't been made public yet. It could even be compromising photos of someone in power. If, not, I'd expect in short order for articles to appear quoting such and such functionary that 56k is a cap that cannot be breached for such and such a reason.
darkenvai
dark...Yes i'd have to agree, think we will be hearing one way or another very soon, based on how stringent prior applications were, and how they must be adhered to with no or little room for manouvre, you'd think a statement would follow outlining why we can't expand to 65 000 or reasons as to why it would now be acceptable. Transport and parking would have to sit near the top of the reasoning one would think. An extra 9 000 foot fall in a area struggling financially must been seen as a positive, along with maybe the added visitors to events other than football if the sliding pitch project is to be followed up.
Cider spurs
You can just imagine the kind of overly officious jobsworths with their tape measures and noise pollution charts who said that poverty-stricken, riot-ravaged Tottenham could not possibly sustain more than 56,000 supporter/consumers and their bulging wallets 2 or 3 times a fortnight.
darkenvai
We all know how long we have waited for a new stadium... for those of you who don't, have a look at some of Pelebro's historical posts ;-). We have to get it right this time, no after thoughts, no if only we did that instead of that. We will not build another stadium for a long period once the latest project comes to fruition. This has to be 100% correct, it has to maximise finances, which will decrease in comparison to others around us once time elapses and more new builds come to the fore. Sliding pitch would allow for so many differing revenue streams, regardless of NFL. I am eagerly awaiting updates and hope we end up with a truly magnificent stadium. Packed with cheering fans....Alright, magnificent stadium will do. ;-)
Cider spurs

I live in Phoenix (Anthem, Nth Phoenix) and go to the Football at the University of Phoenix stadium and can confirm it is superb.

One thing I would mention though is the situation of the stadium, it is next to a major road, 3/4 lanes in each direction and has parking for many thousands od vehicles.

There is also a large complex of food, entertainment in the same area, very easy walking distances.

Perhaps this would be too much for the area of Tottenham to handle.

Thanks to sydqcb5 for the pictures of Schalke. COYS

ro6ertj
I don't know..You Yanks...Everything has to be bigger and better. ;-)
Cider spurs
Finally something I can give more insight on then you brits! I'm american by the way. :-) so a sliding pitch would be perfect for spurs because of the revenue that we would get from hosting a nfl franchise. The nfl makes almost 10 billion dollars a year. Divide that by 32 teams and you get an average profit of over 281 million per team profit! That's after players salaries and paying coaches, ect and doesn't include merchandising sales and things of that nature. Now obviously it isn't an equally divided profit as some teams make more than others due to attendance and being in a larger market like new yorkor chicago, but even the jacksonville jaguars, the worst team in the league and biggest canidate to move to london made over over 30 million in profit. In the epl teams are lucky to not lose money every year. I would gladly welcome Some of those profits to our club. We would literally be able to have a Chelsea size war chest for transfers, and get the branding in the united states. Also, concerts and stuff could be held without tearing up the pitch, not to mention the weight of a 6"7 340lb offensive lineman running around. A perfect example is the university of phoenix stadium. Home of the arizona cardinals. Google it, its pretty amazing.
jefferyhyde
Cider, we may have to have bigger and better, but it has resulted in us having the most profitable sports league in the world. Even college teams have stadiums that sit over 90 thousand people
jefferyhyde
jefferyhyde...Only said in jest mate, only jest. ;-) Do you think it is something that could actually happen?. Would a NFL team with London as their base seem a realistic idea in your opinion?. I know that in the States vast areas have to be covered in order to play fixtures, would travelling from London not be a step too far?.
Cider spurs
@Jefferyhyde. As the name implies I also live in the US. The numbers you quote regarding the finances and profits in the NFL are indeed mouth watering, but do you really think that an NFL franchise based in the UK will work? I don't really understand how that is going to happen. Will the NFL move a franchise over to London or do they intend to expand the league here in the US? If expansion, wouldn't the existing franchises have to vote resulting in further delays for the Spurs stadium. If a franchise moves to London, then that will probably cause fallout from the City it is moving from. I know categorically that if the Browns proposed to move from Cleveland then the fans would go absolutely mental over it. They are still bitter over Lebron here. Aside from that, I'm not convinced that there is big enough appetite for NFL in the UK. OK one game a season, people will go to see what it's all about, it's something different, but a 16 game season, can you see us selling out a 65K stadium week after week for say the Tottenham Browns. I don't I'm afraid. NFL has been broadcast in the UK since the 80's and never really got the following. There was also the old European league, London had a team I think they were called the Monarchs, it never took off. There is also the problem that the NFL season is played from roughly August (pre-season) until January, then the playoffs. That's smack bang in the middle of the PL season. On top of that, NFL is traditionally played on a Sunday, with college ball on Saturdays. Say we play EL, then how are we going to accommodate the Tottenham Browns as well. There is also the issue that if there were games every week that would apply more pressure on local resources such as policing which I don't see the area being able to handle at present I don't think that the NFL will stand for a drastic change to the status quo like that. My guess is that the NFL thing was just a publicity opportunity by THFC as the 49ers were playing in London that weekend. Nice photo op, but I don't see it working. Do you think it could?
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Cleveland....Very good points raised.
Cider spurs
Cider, I know man, its all good :-) cleveland, I get what you are saying, but you are looking at it from a cleveland point of view. You guys have history and you are right, fans would freak if an established team went overseas, but what about a team like jacksonville? Local media apologizes for having to air the jags games! The owner also owns fulham, so he is fimiliar with the legistics of the epl. On top of of that, I don't think that anybody would miss the jags, who could be the worst team in nfl history. As far as tv ratings in the uk, remember the time difference. The vikings and packers played at 830 eastern time last night. That's like 2am in the uk. No wonder the ratings aren't great. As far as the old london monarchs, if you give a continent second or third tier americann football, what kind of support do you think you will get? I think london would be perfect for a nfl team. Would it be expensive, hell yeah, but it would be just as profitable. And yes, the season is during the epl season, but inter and ac milan share a stadium and it works just fine. Just saying. Btw, sorry about your browns this year, yall need a qb as bad as spurs need support to soldado
jefferyhyde
@Jeffery, Nice points. I must admit, I don't really follow NFL anymore. I went to a couple of Browns games last year and it bored me to death whilst my bollox were being frozen off. Jags surely can't be worse than the Browns. Surely. Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how all this develops, I'm just a little concerned that THFC are being diverted from the true goal of getting a new stadium up and running as soon as is possible. Where abouts are you in the US?
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Cleveland...I'm sure some will be disheartened if the stadium build is to be put back to a later date, but, surely the possibility of vast revenue streams coming in to the club as a result, means the delay is the right way forward in the long run.
Cider spurs
 

Have Your Say

Log in...
with your social network     OR     with your Vital account

Recent Spurs Articles

Partizan Belgrade vs. Tottenham Hotspur. (Thursday September 18 2014)

Captain Kabs! (Tuesday September 16 2014)

That Killer Instinct! (Monday September 15 2014)

Well I enjoyed it! (Sunday September 14 2014)

Sunderland vs. Tottenham Hotspur. (Saturday September 13 2014)

Balance, Size and Baldini (Friday September 12 2014)

A Temporary Stadium? (Friday September 12 2014)

The Stadium Is Delayed THFC Is No More!!! (Thursday September 11 2014)

Come On Down! (Thursday September 11 2014)

New Stadium Delayed! (Wednesday September 10 2014)

Archived Spurs Articles

List All Vital Spurs Articles
Have your say
Click here to suggest an article
Click here to suggest a poll

Vital Members League (view all)

1. Spursex 217
2. 80deg16minW 190
3. spurdon 164
4. MAN ON! 145
5. Kinygerbils 118
6. Real Deal 107
7. USAFSPURS 100
8. Geofspurs 98
9. spursgirl_4_life 90
10. BigSpursFan 86

League Results (view all)

Latest Results
Sunderland 2 - 2 Spurs
Spurs 0 - 3 Liverpool
Spurs 4 - 0 Q.P.R.
West Ham 0 - 1 Spurs

League Table (view table)

Team P W D L GD Pts
3. Swansea 4 3 0 1 3 9
4. Southampton 4 2 1 1 5 7
5. Man City 4 2 1 1 3 7
6. Spurs 4 2 1 1 2 7
7. Arsenal 4 1 3 0 1 6
8. Liverpool 4 2 0 2 1 6
9. Man Utd 4 1 2 1 3 5

Breaking League News

Juventus Interest Cooled!
Man Utd : 18/09/2014 18:27:00
Hammers Still After That First Home Win!
West Ham : 18/09/2014 16:58:00
Collison Joins Championship Outfit!
West Ham : 18/09/2014 16:39:00
The cause of our defensive woes
Chelsea : 18/09/2014 16:37:00
Pardew in Stats
Newcastle : 18/09/2014 13:11:00

Current Site Poll (view all polls)

Your prediction for Sunderland v Spurs?
Suggested By:  Vital Spurs
Sunderland Win... 32%
Draw. 26%
Spurs Win! 42%