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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

SPURS vs NEWCASTLE.

Well...I'll bid you hello, good morning it is not. Never can be when our beloved club loses at home.

First 5 minutes I thought we started brightly, balls pinged Left and Right, switching of play from one wing to the other. I thought if we continue like this we'll be too much for them. How wrong I was. Dembele, Paulinho, Siggy and Eriksen were all guilty of sub standard performances in the first half. Dembele could not keep the ball, Paulinho was guilty of this also and the passing, well it wasn't. Siggy I forgot was even playing. Townsend runs fast, but apart from one ball played to the overlapping Walker, nothing to his game. I will admit that it was hard for Townsend because they doubled up on him, even trebled at one point.

Others were also of sub standard performance, but I'm not one for continually bashing players, reason I mentioned those above is because basically they are everything between defence and attack. You cannot afford to have all 5 under achieving and expect to win. Not going to happen. Paulinho let the ball run across him with a view to start play on his right foot, trouble being the ball moved past him a little too far resulting in a 50/50 with Gouffran who had pounced. Paulinho looked weak in the tackle, one through ball later Remy rounds Brad and we're all fecked off. Could've Brad sprinted from his line quicker? He did pause for a second and make a little backward movement. No point blaming Brad, we don't know if Lloris would've saved it. With the goal coming early in the 1st half, there was plenty of time for a response, however, we did not look like we were responding, we looked more despondent. Krul did have to make a few decent saves, one from a Soldado flicked header and one from an Eriksen speculative. Both good efforts both good saves.

Second half saw the introduction of Sandro for Dembele and Kaboul for Chiriches (whom I thought had a decent first half, made a great run back to get a last ditched tackle in, this was on the Right side). We absolutely dominated the second half, wave after wave of balls into the box, shots on target, possession etc. Begs the question, why don't we play like this all the time? We most probably had more possession in the second half when we were attacking with intent and pace, than we did in the first half when we were all the more considered and slow in our build up. Only one team looked like scoring in the 1st half...and they did, we looked like the only team who could have scored in the second half. On that basis, and in the knowledge that it does not stop us having the lion's share of possession, let's have more of the second half as opposed to the 1st. Obviously with us scoring.

Krul made save after save in the second half, on reaching 12 saves he had bettered the record for most saves in a match in Prem this season. i think he went on to make a couple more. This tells us one of two things. Either he was in sensational form, or our finishing is poor. Was it a combination of both? I'll leave that one to you guys. The fact that we managed so many shots in the first instance for Krul to save suggests we can create the chances, strange how this is after we have upped the tempo. I've said all along that quick tempo denies defenders reaction time to events happening around them resulting in errors and opportunities. Defoe's introduction for Siggy did not work, and I for one thought the way we bossed the game in the second half that it would've suited Lamela. Switching Townsend to Left.

All in all, gutted with the 1st half performance too many not on their game, as witnessed, you will not get away with it in this league too often. 2nd half showed a great determination and something that resembled the Spurs of old. Two halves of that with the addition of goals next week please. Imagine Adebayor playing in that! game today. See he wasn't on the bench again. What injury is he carrying?. Gobshiteitus.

Krul why so Cruel.

Written by Cider spurs




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The journalist

Writer: Cider spurs.  Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday November 11 2013

Time: 8:20AM

Your Comments

Nice article, or should that be 'good article'? Never nice when we lose as you rightly point out. Regarding Krul, 450/50 for me, some great saves, some poor finishing. I just don't know what to think anymore. I'm the perennial optimist, but this season, I don't know, I just feel a bit drained? I'm not normally one for pointing the blame at the manager, as I always get behind the team, but for me, Lamela had to start yesterday, he would have been buzzing after his first goal. I'd have gone Townsend Left, lamela Right, denying the toon the opportunity to double up on our only out & out winger. That's just me though. Away to City, Home to United next two games, something tells me it's going to get worse before it gets better.....
King26
*50/50....oh, and first! something we can only dream of for now! COYS
King26
For all the huff and puff in the second half the sad truth is the same as the rest of the season we are not set up to provide decent chances for any of our forwards to get onto. Soldado is not being given a chance to prove his worth for us. I personally think he is not the right player for us, but I would of thought we would being playing to his strengths at this time in the season now?? Why pay so much for a player and then never play to his assets? The midfield in the first half wanted too much time on the ball in the wrong positions, Townsend is too predictable. He stays on the right and is looking to cut in and produce a GB style goal at every chance. Siggi seems to be our only real goal threat, which really plasters over the fact he is not really that good to start!! Dembele I dont see the fuss about him he is not creative going forward and a liability when put under pressure by other midfield opponents. 7th place is where we belong in the league and closer to mid table then 5 points of the top is a more realistic fact!! COYS
WestStandEnclosure
Newcastle wonít be able to ride their luck for too much longer. I suppose away from home you can say they did well for the 3 points so fair play. But I canít stop thinking how did the ball stay out of the back of their net? It wasnít a great first half from us, thatís one area we will have to look at but overall we worked hard which we have consistently been doing and this time created so many chances. We were unlucky while they had an abundance of it. The lads will have to pick themselves up and work harder building to the next game. The main thing is to see a positive reaction from the team and fans at the next game. Onwards and upwards. COYS.
SpursOne2
I often resist posting on sites nowadays namely down to lack of time to do so. However, after yesterday's loss I do feel some need to get some things out there. I feel, as do many of my Spurs' mates, that AVB has now totally lost the plot. Let's be clear, Newcastle were extremely lucky but despite that some of the decisions made by our esteemed manager were flabberghasting. He has this terrible habit of listening to the media (think Defoe against West Ham 0-3, think Lloris yesterday). The fact that he went with this imPACT test when the week before h left him to finish the game is amazing. As soon as I heard Friedel was playing I knew we would be up against it. You cannot play a high line with a terrible keeper (yes terrible). He doesn't come off his line and is always on the floor - Lloris would have kept a clean sheet yesterday and we would probably have won the game. How he can drop Sandro after the performance last week is beyond me? Dembele is really having a bad season so why pick him? AVB then wasted a substitution as he brought Sandro on for him in the 2nd half (it was the right decision but had Sandro started we would have not had to waste a sub). Also, Townsend thinks he is Bale and I can tell him and anyone else who thinks he is - He really isn't. He needs a rest too as he just tries too hard to impress and often flatters to deceive. The bottom line is that we didn't deserve to lose but ultimately we did due to some poor management decisions.
The Tailor
Wrong selection and shape again! Lamela should have started he must be full of confidence, Sandro should also have started as he must be the best in the country at what he does (sorting out the opposition midfield). We should be 442 at home against sides like WH, Hull & Newcastle - where the hell is Adebayor? we pay him £100k a week. Agree about Soldado, why buy him if you won't give him the service - he wants it on the floor in front of him! AVB is a bloody disaster and needs to get a grip of playing in the Prem before it's too late!
Aribak
I didn't get to watch the live game so only have the impression that the highlights give. Clearly from the comments on the other thread the first half was poor and the 2nd much better but ultimately fruitless. Now I have made my views on style perfectly clear so no need to bang on about that. Suffice to say that unlike the knee-jerkers or those who lean whatever way the wind blows, I feel no differently today other than sadder that we lost. The hoped for change of home set-up did not materialise so we played on the knife-edge and got cut. It matters not that we were unlucky to come up against a keeper on form, it was bound to happen and could just have easily against Hull. To those who say it is a work in progress, you may well be right, but I do not think that Mr Levy like me will consider his money well spent if this continues until Xmas and all chance of a top 4 disappears.
love totty
We lost... but there were positives:

Yesterday's game was one of our better performances. We created clear cut chances.

Yesterday's game wasn't boring either so for all the people asking for entertainment we got it, just not the result.

Arsenal, Man C, Chelsea all dropped points this week.
We need to take the positives from the Newcastle game, move on and concentrate on our next games. Get results against Man C and Man U and all will be forgotten.
taniban
Difference between the 1st and 2nd halves was????????????????? No Dembele. Not pointing all the blame for the slow build up play on him but he's becoming the new Parker. Always turning and twisting around in circles. The opposition have cottoned on to how he plays and are nullifying his positives so now we seem to be getting only his negatives. Excellent game by Krul and some poor finishing cost us yesterday. Still only Manu and Southampton won their games so no real benefits for the others. We are still 5 points off the top. COYS
longtimespur
*not consider
love totty
WSE,re Soldado,AVB knew what he was buying so I don't understand why he's hanging onto this inverted winger system,when Soldado starts getting proper service and doesn't score then i'll say not good enough.Also if AVB wants to stick with 2 deep lying mid's,even at home, then I think we should play 3 at the back,especially at home.A back 3 of Verts/Chiriches/Kaboul with any 2 of Pauli/Sandro/Capoue should be a pretty formidable defensive unit freeing up an extra (creative) player to be on the park and hopefully enabling the wide players to do just that ,stay wide.Whenever AVB decides that Lamela is up to starting regularly can't come fast enough,the KID is a different mustard,this is a player that a team can be built around,truely exceptional ball control,i believe he will control our destiny for the next few seasons.Gazza last player that I seen in spurs shirt that made it look so effortless.
sandroman
When AVB and the squad watch the game back I hope they all come to the same conclusion Cider clearly has - The second half performance has to be the template to build on. Other games we've been in control but toothless but that half we looked very dangerous. I think we've been spared a lot of media attention due to how many other teams at the top of the table dropped points. With a bit of luck we should be able to quietly move on and improve.
oi.you.there
The slow tempo at start of games is frustrating, if we start games with a fast tempo instead of letting the other team take the initiative then things would be different but we don't, we only start when we go behind.
Kong
I think our issues (lack of goals) this season have come down to several issues. Apologies in advance as its a bit long winded. Hopefully we can have a proper footy debate today not just the I told you so stuff. 1) Soldado simply doesnt suit playing as alone striker in the Prem,Spain is different, defenders drop off and hes finding it difficlut getting the ball to stick and for us to build play. If you are small you generally run the wider channels like Augero. But Soldado plays right up the gut by and large and is struggling. 2) 10 years ago 442 ruled, you had simple one on one match ups as a result. LB v RW and son on. Teams varied it at times to 352 and of course now 4231come 433, initially you had a big advantage. The issue here is there is no advantage anymore as everyone is doing it to some fashion. We are back to the one v one match ups we had 10 years ago unless you are totally fluid like Barca. Its all eye of the needle stuff and teams are lacking variation. (IMO There is nothing wrong with playing direct at times and putting the ball in the box to a target man), City had the same issues yesterday, techinical players all trying to thread passes against 10 defenders. No variation!! 3) Our high pressing game means we are keeping clean sheets but generally we are condensing the field. Its a Catch 22 situation, do you allow teams on to you more to create space on the counter?? 4) Its plain to see we dont know or AVB doesnt know his best 11. I must say I have total sympathy here becasue players are simply not putting their hands up for long enough. Take Siggy yesterday, totally cruel!! Then he can go and score a screamer mid week. Sandro even got pulled half time v Hull and rightly so. Mousas turn yesterday. Frustrating isnt the word. Much maligned players like Walker have been the most consitant by far. 5) NO LB is biting us on the butt. Verts has been admirable but a pacey LB when you have inverted wide men is a neccesity. our CM while still a classy unit simply doent have a player as techically gifted as Modric who can see an early passand is technical enough to ping it. Our 3 CMs will run 3 yards to make a 10 yard pass because they dont trust their technique like a Carrick or even Hudd. I thought yesterdays game was different in that we simply lacked passion and were blown off the park in the first 15 mins. 442 caught us unaware, Ameobi stuch is ar5e in, the ball stuchk, Remy ran in behind and they passed forward and early, simple but effective. They squeezed Dembelle and said to the CBs if you wanna break us down you will have to do it. Id love to see Ade play with Soldado as I think they would compliment each other but by all accounts theres a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. By and large I think we are still close to being a very good team. At times especially at home we just need to start quicker and play with tempo. Id also like to see some variation with 4411 assuming Ade is actually going to actually play for his 100k a week. But teams will continue to defend in numbers especially now we have the unfortunate rep of being a very impatient crowd.
gatch75
By xmas we will have a greater understanding of where we are heading, we should see all the new signings especially Lamela in the team. Talk of AVB out now is wrong, he will get time.
Kong
We only really have Soldado as an option up front....but the 3 amigos behind are terrible....yes Dembele and Pauli had bad games but it was them against the toon's mid. Gylfi tried to stay goal side when we lost possession (but did f all) whilst townsend and eriksen just looked for their team mates to get the ball back...eriksen picked it up in the second half and tracked but Townsend needs a rocket...
shedboy2
As soon as we started pinging balls across the 6 yard box, Soldado ws in the right place to potentailyl get 2 tap ins. Thats the first time ive seen us play that way so you can blame Soldado. The board / AVB knew what they were buying with Soldado (even watching youtube its blatently obvious he finishes moves in the box, not create them / goals from nothing). If we play like that, he will start banging them in and we will rise up the table. But will AVB change..... hmmm....
mattspurs1982
November was the real test and indicator of how far we could go this season. So far its, a draw at Everton and a loss at home against Newcastle. More worryingly its NILL goals scored. I (like 90% of spurs fans) was absolutely delighted with our summer business, however 11 games into the season (plus numerous cup / Europa games) itís becoming very clear that AVB has no idea how to utilise the talent at his disposal

One of three things is happening at spurs 1) We simply bought the wrong players for the system AVB wants to use. Now, considering he had an almost blank cheque book that is very concerning. 2) The players he bought are fine but for the system but are not performing to their ability, or maybe I could go as far to say we overestimated what the players could achieve. I have doubts that Soldado is the £26m star we thought. 3) The players are fine, they are trying to perform as best they can but the system and tactics are completely flawed

My question would be thisÖ..How can players who have proved their talent in various countryís for different national teams all become crap at once?? Soldado, steady goal scorer season on season, Eriksen (horrible game yesterday) but one of Europeís top assists last season. Lamela (disgrace he didnít start yesterday) been a hit for the last few seasons, breaking into the national team with the likes of Tevez, Di Maria, Messi, Higuian. You canít blame AVB for some of the finishing yesterday but you can blame him for the predictable line up, wrong team selection (IMO) and predictable substitutions. Why oh why bring on Defoe (who touched the ball about 3 times) and stick him on the left bloody wing!!!?? Lamela must have been in tears when he saw that. Shape up or ship out Mr Boas.
hudderspur
Jeez that was long, writing in between breaks. I wouldnt read it either.
gatch75
I think the fact that AVB left Lamela on the bench yesterday was CRIMINAL. Even the least knowledgeable person on earth would have selected the boy to play yesterday. But our incompetent, clueless so-called manager wouldn't! What did he try to prove by leaving him out, I'll never know. The sooner Levy realizes he made a gross mistake in taking him on, the better. He should have consulted his Chelsea friend before, to see why Abramovich was so eager to offload the guy.
dagobert
As you know I have defended AVB in the face of previous flak, but I think he needs to think about what happened yesterday and how his decision making contributed to that. When I watched his pre-match interview it seemed to me he was clearly lacking confidence in his team selection. Maybe there had been "words" over lloris who knows.
Last week I thought we had a great first half at Everton. That team started with Sandro, Paulinho, Holtby and Lennon. It worked very well. The reason Verts got MOM was due mainly to having Lennon in front of him, hugging the touchline, working with Verts allowing him to exploit the channels. And yes somebody who understands football wrote that (not me!) but to me it made sense. When Siggy came on it changed. When Sandro went off last week it changed. I thought Holtby played well.
So why start Siggy, particularly when Lamela was on a high. Newcastle had at least 2 players on yellow. They couldn't cope with Paulinho and Dembele running at them, imagine how they'd of coped with an in-form Lamela.
Was Sandro injured? Spurs have never lost a game he has started in the last 15 PL games.
Maybe AVB was unfortunate in that Chiriches cost him a sub. But if AVB learned anything yesterday it was hopefully that his unmoveable belief in Siggy (who must play phenomenally well in training) must now be put aside. We need a hard look at Dembele, and with Capoue coming back there are options. Loyalty is commendable, but its now costing results.
Finally the form of Eriksen concerns us all I am sure. He will come good i am sure. Until then we should use the passion and committment of Holtby.
jacobslad
Topho - Not a great picture, shaking hands with the opposition manager during a match.
Kong
Our passing was great, chances were great, reaction at half time. Percentage wise we owned them. AVB needs to lo just keep us improving on the creating chances and we will be smashing teams 2-3 nil. This could easily have been the case against the toon. Drop Townsend and bring in Lennon or Lamela for the next game please. Hopefully Lloris will be available and still monitoring Ade/Rose, hopefully they are not too far off. COYS.
SpursOne2
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/hugo-latest-101113/
SpursOne2
The important thing for me is yesterday AVB saw what the side is capable of, Ok, most of the team were completely off there game yesterday but good chances were created and we dominated the 2nd half, hopefully this will be the kick up AVBs A$%e he's been needing for last 8 months. That first half was the same boring sideways crap we've been watching game after game, conceding the goal against Newcastle might actually be a good thing as surely he must see that his one dimensional tactical management abilities have a MASSIVE hole in them which game after game he has failed to reconcile.
coys1717
We have tried Holtby and Eriksen at number 10, why not try Lamela or at least start him and give him a feel for the league games. We will now play the manchester clubs back to back, will Lamela get a start in those games, I doubt it but wouldn't surprise me either.
Kong
it would be safe to assume that lamela would have seen action yesterday if the injury to chiriches and dembele's poor display did not cost us 2 of 3 subs. having said that I would have brought lamela on for sigurdsson and put townsend on the left and kept defoe firmly on the bench
Guernman
Id also start Lennon right and Townsend left. But I dont see how Lamella warrants starting. IMHO he has played well once against Sheriff and has been totally inaffectual in every other game. AVB is bringing him along nicely and doesnt want to heap too much on him too soon. Id be 90% certain he would have come on had Vlad not gone off but I think he needs a couple more good cameos before he starts at 10.
gatch75
gatch75 - Yeah Lennon is back and a top player, get him back in the team. Lamela, like the lad and can't wait for him to be regular but he still should be given some time. I'm sure AVB wants him playing week in week out as well but is doing the right thing with him and a few others. COYS.
SpursOne2
Not playing Sandro and Lamela yesterday was just stupid! Siggy is just not good enough (shame I hoped he would make it) and putting Defoe on wasn't clever as Lamela was the choice to make. Not taking Lloris off last week was a mistake (he wasn't fit a week later) and then to carry on claiming he was right was an even bigger mistake! I think we have a great club and great chairman who has invested heavily but we have the wrong manager, shame cos he seems a nice guy but he just aint up to it! We need to bite the bullet before CL disappears over the hill.
Aribak
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but to be honest most fans on this site and others were coming up with a very fluid and interchangeable Townsend, Eriksen, and Lamela behind Soldado. If I were a betting man I'd have taken short odds for Lamela to start. He would not have been physically tired. He was on a high. We now have a 2 week break when its possible his newly found confidence will ebb. Had he had a crap game he would have had 2 weeks to get over it. It was a no-brainer. He should have started instead of Siggy.
jacobslad
Having said all that there is no way I'd call for AVBs head. He is a consummate professional and is leading this club in the right direction. He is 110% dedicated. I just feel he holds on to this loyalty thing too long.
jacobslad
Bad weekend for both of us yesterday! AVB is now in serious trouble, quite possible that you could be still sitting on 20 points after 13 games (two tough ones coming up) which would I think signal the end of his Spurs career. Really cannot understand some of his decisions yesterday? Townsend has yet another game of doing nothing and yet still starts above the clearly more talented Lamela (even if he's not the answer!), 2 def-mid type players at home to Newcastle?? Defoe coming on to play as a winger?? I'm beginning to wonder if he is searching for another pay off!!
Galway Gooner
Ok.... Up until the West Ham defeat, we were looking ok....barring us not really scoring many, and looking a bit lacklustre performance-wise. Best points start to a season, so we could afford to ignore the performances and hope they improve. Now, our points total is only marginally better than the average 11 game pts total across the previous 4 seasons. So now we cannot ignore the performances. Yesterday looked better, but due to the generally poor level of performance, we cannot take it in isolation. Something is wrong. I doubt that AVB will change it, but it needs to change. We need to abandon the wingers. We need to play the way that Chelsea and Arsenal do. They do not play with wingers. The full backs do the wing jobs. Then they fill the attacking areas with guys who can create chances AND score. That means that we need to play Eriksen, Siggy (NOT ON WING) and Holtby/Lamela/Chadli whoever behind Soldado. Townsend & Lennon can play too, or come on, but they should only play as wingers if tactically we need to counter the opposition - i.e. pinning Baines back for example. Playing like this, we should get more bodies in the box, more targets for passes, more movement and less isolation of Soldado....and hopefully more goals. Playing as we do now, we NEED to score the first goal. As we hardly score, this is not so likely. If we go a goal down, we are screwed. We need to go from a cagey game to one where we need to score, and it was not unlucky yesterday....we just are blunt.
TonyRich
grasp the nettle and drop Townsend...yet another game of running into cul-de-sac's, not tracking back, shooting instead of passing...and no goals and no assists. The boy has not earned the right to be considered a 1st team starter....
Against Manu I'd like to see us play like this....it does ask lamela to play off the left but he'll drift inside....lennon will keep the balance staying right....
...................Soldado................
Lamela.........Pauli..........Lennon
.........Capoue......Sandro...........
Rose.....Verts......Kaboul....Walker
..................Lloris.....................
shedboy2
There no doubt that anyone who complains about the team selection, tactics etc will be branded ďfickleĒ or ďnot a supporterĒ but enough is enough. AVB is stubbornly sticking to a system that isnít working, he keeps picking the same playing who are underperforming and doesnít look like he is willing to re-shuffle things. After the match there were a few on here shouting that if we won we would have been joint secondÖÖand the point is?? We didnít win, yet again couldnít score, and have now slipped down the table when our next two game are against City who will want to bounce back after losing at Sunderland then Man united who will have fire in their belly after beating Arsenal. By the 1st of December it could be 1 point out of a possible 12Ö..11 dropped FFS!!
hudderspur
Shedboy...lets get the Citeh game done first!
jacobslad
I also do agree that we should start playing Lamela. Even if he is ineffective, he would be no worse than an ineffective performance from Lennon or Siggy when played out of position... Or from Chadli when he first started playing for us... Our wingers are not goalscorers barring potentially Lamela, and this is where the inverted winger thing defeats the object. The knock on effect of inverted wingers is that they find it harder to cross, pass and control those long cross field passes - as they usually end up on the wrong foot.
TonyRich
In Townsends defence teams are doubling up and almost every chance game down the right side. Hes the least of our problems. It must be a knightmare for Soldado as he doesnt know when to make his runs anymore. You take that excellent erriksen cross first half, if hes was used to and early delivery that 1-0 all day long. Whats worse is that when you have acres of space left side because Townsend is doubled up Siggy puts in a performance like that. It seemed as if he wasover his crisi of confidence then he has a 3 out of 10 game. And Galway Id be more concerend about your impending slide. Lack of rotation gonna bite you because Giroud and Ozil starting to look like flogged horses leading up to Crimbo.
gatch75
jacobslad- you noticed that...;) all these manchester teams are the same aren't they?...;)
shedboy2
The reason we lost is that AVB does not set out to win the game but sets it out not to lose it., And that is always a danger when you concede and have to play catch up. That is the difference between us and the goon scum... they play to win. COYS
4everaspur
shed...i always read your normally erudite posts in great detail.
jacobslad
hudders - agreed. The only changes we saw was a swapping of Eriksen & Holtby. Or a swapping of Siggy & Lennon (both out of position). Which means that he truly believes in the system, and just the personnel need changing.... I can think of a million combinations that we could try, but they are never an option. Why does AVB believe so much in this system...? It is not as if he has years of experience of it working... He only has had 2 full seasons of management...
TonyRich
Shedboy2 ... I Agree. I wanted to see the same 11 a while back. Looks very formidable from Lloris and up through the middle ... might now be tempted to leave Rose out and keep Chiriches. Too many options!!
Geofspurs
Excellent article Cider. 2nd half was superb and was good to see how we kept Newcastle in their own half. Townsend for me needs to move to the left or drop him for someone who will provide chances for Soldado. He really needs to work on his game. Too predictable. Everytime he gets it we know what he is going to do which is a worry. A fit Capoue should partner Sandro. Both players other more than defensive cover. Capoue will be the driving force -his power and passing ability from deep will make him an asset. Please give Lamela a run. Play him right and he will deliver. Also I would like to have Eriksen left side. He's two footed and clever with the ball but he needs players to open up the defence. Now as no 10 I would give Chadli a chance when fit. He played his best football for FC Twente. Both Chadli and Eriksen could easily interchange position during the game which will unsettle the defence. I still think AVB will stick to his tried and tested tactics. What he really needs is a settled team and he needs better performances from his players. I still have faith in him and I still think we won't see the best till next season. COYS!
James1
The die is cast, fellahs. No good knee-jerking into the first combination that enters your heads. The players have been coached for some months now into the current set-up which works very well away from home against decent opposition so pointless changing anything before the City game. After that we have MU and Liverpoo at home to think about with two away games in between, followed by Southampton away. It's not until we get to the West Brom that we need a sea-change.
love totty
gatch75 - Lennon has been doubled up for years, yet he still managed 4 goals and 7 assists last season. Over a quarter of the season gone, and I struggle to see Townsend getting near that... Townsend does look bright. But either the system is stifling him, or he is not quite ready to be the first name on the sheet, as he appears to be.
TonyRich
4everaspur - I agree there too. The problem is that we finished yesterday's game as we should start the next....BUT WE WON'T. We will be cagey, Mr Dzeko will score a header, and we will not be able to score... And AVB won't change it... I see a pattern emerging...
TonyRich
Our matches up till Xmas are the City/Utd games, Fulham (A), Sunderland (A), Liverpool (H), and Saints (A). It was so important to win yesterday.
jacobslad
Gatch - you seen who you are playing in the next 2 games?? We have Soton home and Cardiff away followed by Hull at home. No reason we cant take 9 points from those games. The virus that caused Mert and ThomasR to miss the match also impacted on a few other players (Gnarby, Ramsey and Giroud) so while we were crap yesterday, and we were crap, I'm not worried about a one off game. In fairness we've been on a pretty good run and that was the first bad game in awhile. You lot however are getting worse and are sliding towards mid-table unless there are some drastic changes and have you honestly seen anything to suggest that improvement is coming?
Galway Gooner
love totty - it is not knee-jerking mate. Our home performances were insipid LAST SEASON... This season it is the same, except we are scoring a lot less goals. I am not even talking about Bale because he started really scoring and playing well in the latter half of last season. There is something fundamentally wrong that has got worse this season. Without home form, you cannot function as a top 4 side. I am willing to forgo our decent away performances to get the home ones right....
TonyRich
love totty you and AVB will be brave men indeed to start Siggy against City! I suppose the opposite of knee jerk is head in the sand. None of the line-ups/permutations mentioned on here for the next PL game involve anything other than tried and tested players. Apart from Lamela, who has shown he is/was ready.
jacobslad
Townsend did have players double or even triple up on him yesterday, not saying drop him but I think Lamela or Lennon would be better on the right. I am happy for Townsend to move to the left but don't think AVB would do that. He is still learning but has to improve his decision makeing, he had a shot yesterday when Soldado would have been better placed to pass too. He did hit the target tho. I don't want Siggy on the left anymore, never going to work, yes he has scored 3 goals from that position but it also cost us by him being ineffective in other matches especially yesterday.
Kong
Galway - let's be honest, you will beat the brains out of the next 2 fixtures. But you guys do need to either get Podolski fit, or sign someone.... Because bringing on Bendtner should NOT be an option!!!! He is worse now because he even has a stupid hairstyle now... He looks bad for 2 reasons now.... Giroud started the season excellently, but can he keep it up? I do believe that you guys have a top 4 place in the bag already... How high? Who knows? We have some issues in getting to top four, but we have easily a good enough squad...
TonyRich
tops- your in danger of doing an AVB and being too loyal to Townsend...even if doubled up on you can still track back and tackle when you don't have the ball...he was a good stop gap when lennon was injured and lamela finding his feet but in reality he's not good enough yet to be a PL starter...
shedboy2
Tony - you can't have been reading my posts if you think I'm satisfied with our home form - quite the opposite. Boring and negative is the kindest terms I would use and will cost us dearly against the weaker teams. Short term however I think it would be counter-productive to try something new in the next run of games when we are away or at home to good teams.
love totty
Galway - can't believe they let your keeper carry on after being knocked out....surely he has to be out of the next game...ditto Vidic...why is concussion not the story today?
shedboy2
TRich, as I said earlier Lennon is in my team every time. But Townsend got a lot of stick (very unfair imo) when the left side had far more space and created absoltely nothing. (And by that I mean Siggy not Verts) Lets not kid ourselves Townsend is a complete bonus, he was deemed cannon fodder and anything he does is a plus. Hes not the next Bale but becasue of his England performances hes getting unfair expectatio heaped on his shoulders while Lamella gets time to adapt. We could be seeing Lamella totally hrown to the lions like Postiga was were it not for Townsend.
gatch75
After the decision to sack Redknapp which I agreed with, it was with equal enthusiasm I welcomed the appointment of AVB. Yet now, for the first time since he arrived, I have to question his decision making. The sale of Bale was inevitible, and yet that blow was cushioned mightily when I saw the quality we were bringing in. The squad AVB has at his disposal is, quite frankly, fantastic. So how on Earth are we performing so miserably every week? The lack of entertainment would be a little more palatable if the results were tumbling in. But home defeats to Newcastle and West Ham?! Excellent players do not lose their qualities overnight. And so logic follows that these players are not playing in a system that allows them to be as effective as we all know they can be. To many (myself included) the decision to employ two 'defensive-minded' midfielders is a baffling one, espcially at home. The attacking firepower we have must be the envy of most, and yet they are stunted and snookered with our negative tactics and movement or lack thereof. Soldado isn't missing chance after chance, the service to him has simply been minimal at best and pi$$ poor when it arrives. Townsend has let a couple of good performances (for England, not for us) go to his head and now seems to believe not only is he entitled to an automatic starting place, but that he alone can win us the game without looking up for better options. Sandro is as good as any defensive midfielder in the league, and he needs to be the first name on that team sheet. Lamela needs to be given the opportunity to show why we paid all that money for him. I don't believe Levy will look at getting rid of AVB in the middle of this season, but January may decide if he's still here at the start of the next one. For us to turn this around, 3 arrivals are (in my opinion) needed. Firstly, a quality back-up goalkeeper. Friedel is/has been a fantastic professional. But all the goodwill and praise in the world won't make his reactions 10 years better/faster. A quality striker to offer rotation/competition for Soldado. Especially if we are to persist in playing our defensive/lone striker formation. And likewise, a quality left-back as starter/competition for Danny Rose. It may be too late by that time of course, and our season of optimism may have to wait until next year. But these acquisitions will, I believe, stand us in fantastic stead. Only AVB between now and May can determine whether or not he's still here to reap the rewards next season. Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
If AVB does get the sack, we should make a short list of German managers they coach and play the best football at the moment AND we can keep Freund.
coys1717
AVB set out not to loose but also to win. We outplayed them and AVB didn't get a lot wrong. Obviously you get people playing manager who would have stated x player etc, but we had a team to win it. Bounce back, move on and the we have to try harder to convert our chances we are making. COYS.
SpursOne2
I said on the thread after the Everton game that if we concede first we will lose. Point proven yesterday. As soon as they scored I thought there isnít a chance in hell we will score 2 goals. That is the first time I have ever thought that about spurs. I wonder how we would play / set up under Martinez or Laudrup?? There isnít anything wrong with the players.
hudderspur
We had a good team, out at the end of the day and we need to be able to use our quality in depth to win games. Didn't happen this weekend but imo they were lucky and it would have been a heavy defeat for them if not for their keeper. COYS.
SpursOne2
Cant believe a few people are calling for AVB to go already. He's trying something, it isnt working. Lets see if he comes up with the solution first. The second half against Newcastle proved to me hes beginning to see he needs to alter things.
oi.you.there
Jacobslad - I'm not advocating playing or dropping any player, they've all shown their strengths and weaknesses so far. I'm talking about set-up and tactics when playing away or against better teams. This mostly focuses on the number/deployment of holding CMs and use of wide players.
love totty
Galway I actually think we are set up pretty well against the better teams who will come to play. And Im not being a smart ar5e, I genuinely think your lack of roation will bite. Giroud & Ramsey have played in every game by and large even the Coca Cola Cup or whatever its called these days. Giroud in particular needs a rest. Ozil has looked quite lethargic the last few times Ive watched and has lacked his initial sharpness. Having said that a fit Walcott will make a big difference & Im praying you dont get decent backup for Giroud in January.
gatch75
The first player I would rest is Dawson. He hasn't had a disaster this season but there are 3 better centre halves more equipped to play to AVB's tactics. Playing alongside a very pacy full-back like Walker means you have to cover that space he leaves and Dawson's lack of it leaves us vulnerable. As for the goal, when Chiriches is playing that ball to Paulinho from the LB position, why is Dawson over the right and then pushing out. Walker should have been coming in on the cover and Dawson should have shown his leadership and pulled him in so he could move over himself. He does after all wear the armband. That just left the gaping hole and allowed Remy to make us look like mugs at the back. Yes, Friedel could have been quicker off his line and yes, Paulinho could have hit a tackle and yes, it was a stupid ball by Chiriches. Defending is subtle and despite their team-mates errors the 2 players that could have stopped that goal were Walker and Dawson but they weren't awake.

As for the rest of it, Spurs showed spirit in the second half and were unlucky not to get a win or draw. In reality, a loss was down to Krul and poor finishing. AVB clearly bottled it and picked a team to defend the first half and use his bench to win the game in the second. He was made to look a mug as we finished the game with Lennon, Lamela and Holtby sitting on their backside whilst Kaboul and Sandro had to come on. Most on here would argue that they should have been starters anyway with one of Lamela or Lennon in for Siggy. We were after all at home.
muttley
Providing he reacts to it,Oi.you.there it depends on how stubborn the guy is, the limp performances we've been watching have been going on since last season and he has done nothing about it, what makes you think he'll suddenly change. Im more hoping he changes rather believing he actually will.
coys1717
oi.you.there - You get the same people knee jerking on here, its normal. Some pressure in areas is needed, but to be fair the manager and players need to look at where to improve from our last game and move on. We need a decent reaction in the next game, Newcastle were lucky really. COYS.
SpursOne2
Welcome to the club, Lilywhite. Many of us thought the appointment of AVB was an unnecessary risk given how many seasoned managers would kill for the chance to manage Spurs. That concern hardened when the weird selections, baffling substitutions and boring football emerged last season. We hoped for better with after the investment in his choice of players and still hope that he has the nous to make it come right.
love totty
Lilywhite, that sums it up perfectly, Fans want manager sacked, "hes taken us as far as he can go" etc. Manger get sacked. new guy comes in, all rosy full of optimism. Hes the special one surely, new players = excitement, then the cycle coninues. Its a self fullfilling prophecy.
gatch75
topho - We had loads of chances so disagree with you there. We out played them totally in the second half, our first half needed work but we will still better. It was amazing how many times the ball should have been buried if not for one of their players, donít see that every week do you?. The team we had out could have won, each of us think players here and there could be different - i.e Townsend playing and not Lennon or Lamela etc. But we set out and created chance after chance. COYS.
SpursOne2
We didn't score so no assists from Townsend yesterday.
Kong
topho - agree. The subtlety is that because we had nothing on the left Newcastle were able to double and treble up on Walker and Townsend on the right. That could have changed in an instant if we swapped Townsend and Siggy around for 10 mins. Better still we could have started with 2 of Townsend, Lamela and Lennon as we were after all at home. It wouldn't have mattered who started where as long as we were balanced. It would also be better if we had the pace and stamina of Rose tearing up and down the left. Vertonghen put in some good early balls but didn't stretch them with pace like Rose could.
muttley
the hand shake was probably a way of saying: I want you in January with the promise I will let you play 90 minutes in each game...
logos8
I genuinely don't get why people keep saying AVB does weird selections/subs etc...
taniban
Well, I see the usual suspects are out in force!
Yesterday we actually played very well, especially the 2nd half, only to find ourselves with an in form GK. Yes some of the chances were poorly taken but after 50 mins or so I said to myself this will be one of those games!

Negatives: Siggy was terrible and should have been replaced by Lamela or Lennon at half time. Dembele and Paulinho together don't really complement each other, similar story when Defoe was introduced to play alongside Soldado. AVB got a few decisions wrong and failed to rectify all of them but sometimes you just don't have enough subs! Townsend has to be moved to the left or the bench, he is far too predictable. Yes, he often gets 2 or 3 players around him, but he isn't smart enough to realize that that also means we will have 2 mens unmarked somewhere!

Positives - Sandro is clearly the player we miss the most. Erikson had a better game, although still nowhere near the player we all hoped he'd be, but clearly he has the ability. Vertonghen, Chiriches Walker, Dawson all had good solid games.

Lastly, AVB needs to change his formation, playing 1 striker away from home makes perfect sense but at home we need to be far more offensive, the 2nd half tempo needs to be applied for the 90 minutes although I would rather see Soldado/Defoe with Ade/Kane playing. We are far too predictable as a team and the sooner we all realize that 30 yard wonder goals will not come every week the sooner will start to winning games that we are currently not.
yiddyboy
Agree Topho you cant blame Townsend for missing sitters ditto the manger. The ponderous start on the other hand
gatch75
If and in football a big if, everyone was fit to pick a side from for a home prem fixture, i would change the system to 3-at the back, Lloris in goal with Kaboul, Chiriches, Vertonghen, using 5 across the middle, Walker attacking wing back, Capoue, Paulinho pushing further forward as he does for Brazil getting into a second striker role, he knows when it's right to move forward or not, Sandro doing what Sandro does best winning the ball along with Capoue, Rose attacking wing back, Soldado, supported by Lamela in a free role. Just to see if it would work better, we created so many chances against toon and still we could not get one past Krul.
spu 4 life
Shed - Schzy wasn't knocked out apparently, not sure on Vidic but he seemed to come off worse from it. I cant understand why we just cant used a 5 minute "blood sub" like in rugby so that the game can go on and the player can get the best care. I after 5 minutes the player is unfit to resume than the change is permanent and should only be for head injuries. Flamini had to go off with a head injury a few weeks back and he wasn't allowed back for a week even though he was fine, I'm still unsure as to if this was a FIFA rule or one specific to Arsenal???What was the story with Lloris yesterday? Was he classed as unfit to play?
Galway Gooner
Topho - I didn't blame him for the forwards missing, I just stated he did not have assists which he didn't. I like Townsend, I just feel he would be stronger on the left. It is true if strikers miss then it is not the providers fault, I just questioned his decision making. You cannot blame the strikers then if no chances are created for them, it was the first time I saw Soldado more than one chance in a match, much more than previous games.
Kong
tops- I don't rate Townsend, he has potential but he's not realising it and it's costing us...I think some (not you in particular) have been taken in by his direct running which was refreshing but ultimately aimless...Who's better on the right him or Lennon? and we still have yet to give lamela a chance there....he just doesn't justify his inclusion in the team...and he's been given a good run...
shedboy2
Gatch - Its clear that we badly need back up to Giroud as he cant play every game and has looked tired the last few, however his two choice replacements have both been out for months which is a bit of bad luck on our part, I think if either Theo or Poldi were fit then Giroud would not have played as much. Same with Ozil, he's struggling with the pace and we currently don't have the players to rest him.
Galway Gooner
Gatch - sorry posted too soon. Not sure about you being better against teams that come at you in that you are not exactly a counter-attacking side. If you are playing City next then you will find out as they will come roaring at you to atone for their result yesterday!
Galway Gooner
Some are still being loyal to AVB. They say give him a chance, he's trying something, let's see if he comes up with the goods, bla, bla, bla. But, like I said, his loyalty to mediocre players is frustrating. One question that I believe everybody asked yesterday was: Why, oh why, didn't he give LAMELA a chance. Everybody was crying for him to be given a chance. But, there's something wrong with this manager's way of thinking. Up to now, nobody has ever guessed what formation he comes up with. And, if this was obtaining results, well and good, but...
dagobert
Muttley and Topho, if all the people on the left were triple marking Townsend sure it would have given Vertonghen space? Similar to game at Everton?

In my opinion yesterday's game was not like our last games where we had no creativity. We created good chances, we passed the ball with more conviction. We did 'most' things right without getting the result.
taniban
GG- I think they said the same about lloris not being unconscious, it's hard to tell (schezy looked it to me) but they do need to make a ruling if a player loses consciousness they should have to be replaced and I'd be happy if that were a free sub....and yes lloris was deemed unfit to play yesterday...kind of makes a mockery of the last week. I just don't understand why lloris was such a huge story but the game yesterday isn't?
shedboy2
topho - A clear chance created and shot on goal. There is no other way of describing it or explaining it. No need for me to repeat but I do.., the difference here is you thinking we didnít have any (or few), and me disagreeing. You have asked me this before and then I have explained myself, asked if you have seen the game and you say no? Yet you know about the ins and outs reading a match report? Did you actually watch this one?. Seems to be a pattern here from you. COYS.
SpursOne2
topho - We wont win every game but you can measure your team on how they react to a loos as well as a win. We have re-acted well before and gone on to play better games and take points. Would like that to happen EVERYtime. Obviously we are still a new look team so can go a whole season undefeated this time around. Maybe it will take a while for that. COYS.
SpursOne2
Paying 26m for a striker and then not playing to his strengths is the biggest crime to date by AvB. Lamela is clearly still under cooked to be starting in the next 2 PL games. AvB it seems does not have a clue which is his best 11 to be playing his system which seems to me a basic Serie A type line up hoping to win by 1-0 every game.
WestStandEnclosure
There is no one single reason for our goal scoring failure. Goal scoring is measure of team's performance. Having said that, IMO there are 2 individuals who are responsible for current goal scoring mess.

i) Dembele
ii) Townsend Dembele

The primary reason for our slow build up, is down to Dembele IMO. The number of touches he takes is numerous. Also when oppositrion play men behind the ball, he doesnt have the capacity to put a long range pass to stretch the play, which is primary for a CM. He rather relies on dribbling & drifiting his way out. When there is no space,m he tries for a pass that doesnt exists or wait with the ball & by the time decides, someone robs him. We saw the urgency shown by Sandro in 2nd half. Sandro is not the talented footballers when it comes to passing, but he smells dangers & decision making is good. This can't be taught. That is why I believe Dembele would not work in current system. He did do well in his initial 11 games at Spurs last season -whats the difference, it seems he simply lost his zip. One year on, he seems to have lost a yard of pace. With the current resource we have, Holtby is the best suited to take his role. Bentelab seems a very bright prospect;AVB did say he would get game time when once we qualify for EL knock out.Hopefully Bentelab takes his chance.
sydqcb5
I think we upped the tempo second half yesterday but all this talk of an inspired Krul is a bit ott he made one fantastic save and a couple of good ones (one great clearance from a defender too) but most of the shots were straight at him or had had no power...we really didn't open them up. defoe for a goal is a reasonable option...if there is space in behind, if like yesterday there was not he's as much use a chocolate fireguard...we could have used Ade (or a planB) where was he? AVB had said he would be in contention for the Toon game??
shedboy2
Just a few facts for balance: Sandro complained of a tight hamstring after his last game. Wouldn't play 90 mins so was benched. He was the difference in the second half both in winning the ball and quick distribution. Agree ALL our midfield first half were poorer than we had seen. Dembele playing too deep with Paulinho to be effective, and both had problems when closed down quickly. We will be targeted like this in EVERY home game whoever the opposition is. AVB had little option on the changes. Vlad had to be replaced (prob broken nose) by Kaboom and Sandro was a must (credit to AVB) for the light midfield performance. This only left him one more pick. EVERY pundit says that JD is a lethal/natural finisher and cannot understand why he is not playing (will look for a move blah blah.... not). Just was not our day with Krul having his best game EVER. The only one I thought we should have scored was the Eriksen chance that Krul toed away. Any height on that or nearer the corner scores. Different game then.
CoysRus
From Sky Spots analysis about goals:
The explanation was simple and a familiar one for fans who have bemoaned the fact Spurs have now scored only 34 goals in 25 home games under Villas-Boas. The inverted wingers of Townsend and Sigurdsson did not work as a tactic. Neither Townsend nor Sigurdsson played a single successful pass to former Valencia star Soldado in the game.
jacobslad
From Sky Spots analysis about Siggy:
Sigurdsson, especially, was shockingly ineffective against Newcastle. In the first half, he touched the ball just 17 times - the lowest total of any Spurs outfield player - and incredibly played only eight passes, of which amazingly just three were in Newcastle's half. His average position also saw him fail to cross the halfway line before the break.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/295733/analysis
jacobslad
Townsend

With Townsend, his game play is deceptive. He has the most shots on goal this season for any player.

SHOTS ON GOAL - 40
GOAL SCORED -1 SHOOTING ACCURACY - 2.5 %

League's efficient goal scorers are Ramsey with 25%, followed by Lukaku, Aguero, Remy, Toure, Sturridge, Suarez

This is a huge anamoly. How can a player with most dribbles in PL, top5 in Europe, having shots on goal 40 (highest in PL), have the lowest number of goals ?

It just shows how wasteful he is. The compounding factor is Soldado has shooting accuracy of 18%(penalties contribute to it) But his avg % indicate, his service is abysmal.

Even half the shots had he passed/crossed would amount to dencent number of goal scoring chances. He simply has to get his act together and remind himslef that he is not Bale and help his team mates.



Irony is, for all the Townsend shots on goal, his actual goal came from a cross !!!
sydqcb5
Dagobert new season, new players and 11 games in. No balance to the left side due to injuries I.e Rose and Chadli. Townsend is too predictable and still lacking in service to Soldado. I think once Spurs can fix the left side perhaps the team will click. The 2nd half yesterday proved how well we dominate without a balanced left side. Just need Townsend to mix his game or get him left side and play Lamela to add another dimension to our play. I still think we need a specialist LB. Let's hope we get one ib January I'm sure Vert is praying for it. COYS!
James1
I agree Galway we are not an out and out counter attacking team ceratinly without Bale & Id obviously prefer your fixtures. The diff is we wont be able to just squeeze teams like City and Utd in their half which condenses the pitch. If game were won on territory we would be top. From Def to CF there will be a far bigger distance which suits us more as we havent got the quality of Carzola, Silva, Modric, Mata to play in narrow pockets. Siggy in particular is complete guff in that scenerio, with more space he can be a half decent player.
gatch75
Lol. Every pundit only watches Defoe's highlight reel, if they actually watched every Spurs game all the way through like most of us on here they would notice the obvious faults in his game and why he's not first choice, but to be fair, i'm a fan of Soldado always have been, but he was truly awful yesterday positioning and general finishing were terrible, he got a few decent touches but generally a poor game from him.
coys1717
Topho - Can you explain what a clear cut chance is? Spursone said it was a clear chance created and shot on goal. I would say we created more chances yesterday than the other games, was you not happy with the clear cut chances we created yesterday?
Kong
shedboy2, How dare you not play AVB's 3 favourite players Townsend, Siggi and Dawson in your line up for the Man Utd game? We would get destroyed without those 3 in the team! ;-) Seriously though, AVB does not seem capable of picking the very interesting line up you have come up with. Playing Pauli in the hole would I believe work because he is very dangerous when he gets the rare opportunity (because of his defensive duties) to get near the box. He has the strength that Eriksen lacks at this time and has already scored the most skillful Premiership goal of the season so far! So yes Pauli in the hole is a great idea and the rest of your line up would be a great improvement on AVB's disjointed out of balance line up against the Castle! Way to intelligent a team selection for AVB to come up with for the Man Utd game unfortunately... ;-)
pelebro
Agree Coysrus. Regarding JD Gotta laugh at the pundits who conatatnly harp on about what Defoe has to do to start. How about touch the ball more than half a dozen times. IMO Great impact player but never has and never will be a regular starter up top on his own for a top 6 team. Thats not to say hes not a key part of the jigsaw.
gatch75
Spursone2 Ė How can you say ďknee-jerkingĒ?? We are allegedly a team who are going for a minimum top 4 finish who canít score from open play, canít deliver from a single bloody set piece. Can hardly keep the ball in play from corner. Considering the talent we had at the club and then a summer spend of over £100m on players I donít think itís unreasonable, but you say itís a knee jerk when we question why we canít score against a team (AT HOME) with one of the worst defensive records in the league??? We see the same ineffective formations and substitutions game after game, why is it only certain players can be criticised, I always read how poor Dawson is, how poor Dembele is (which he was yesterday) how poor Walker is yet people wonít say a bad word against Eriksen, who was shocking yesterday, or Paulinho who completely lost the midfield! AVB is making errors at the moment, now im not for one minute saying he should be sacked, thatís just daft, but he needs a kick up the arse and needs to stop being so stubborn!! Like someone has mentioned, this is how the problems at Chelsea started.
hudderspur
hudderspur - Yes KNEEJERKING, i might not have implied you, but obviously by the way you responded to me you have included yourself in the category. COYS.
SpursOne2
I love the term 'natural finisher' as well, surely that just means kick it towards goal, as any type of coaching on shooting properly surely makes it un-natural?
coys1717
topho - I know what a clear cut chance is and have explained my self. You watch every game except the occasional spoon? You predict this spoon game in advance and book the time off or? I watch EVERY game. I cant go to them all but put an effort in. Yes west ham followed by a decent win against Villa, the next El game and Hull. 3 games on the bounce. You haven't got a clue obvious as you keep asking for me personally to explain things and hold your hand on the way. You have your opinion good for you.
SpursOne2
Ghulamville, agree, Criticsm for the sake of it, he and Walker will just never please some. He has been the least of our problems yet Ive still read he should be dropped. Personally I dont like him and Vlad together as I think theres isnt enough pace and hopefully Kaboul now gets a run.
gatch75
pelebro- didn't even think about daws..who i like...just thought i'd pick the best team available and it seems to me Kaboul is better than Daws...so simple really. Tops- agree we are starting too slow and that is down to the mgt not setting them up to play quickly....Sandro showed what a bit of urgency on the ball can create....I think capoue also plays the ball quicker and drops in some excellent long passes...
shedboy2
sydqcb ..... I agree with your Dembele stance, as I posted up near e beginning of this thread. ......Coysrus.......... Krul made 14 saves yesterday, the highest in PL this season. Next highest is Cardiff's keeper with 12 saves, and that was against us too. So are we really so poor at shooting or do goalkeepers just play better against us? Was it last season or the one before when Hart stopped us thrashing Citeh at the Lane by 6-0?
longtimespur
SpursOne2...hudderspur made some good points, that a bit of tinkering might help. Are you suggesting we carry on as we are?
jacobslad
jacodslad - I didn't suggest that we do nothing, Ive actually said strait away that we need to work even harder, keep creating more chances. The team and AVB need to look at our first half display also. Many other help constructive criticisms to be added. I'm sure hudders made some good points as well, fair play to him.
SpursOne2
While I'm all for keeping AVB - i did hear one fan saying how with all these flair players he'd love to see Hoddle back at the Lane in an assistant manager like role. A great idea I thought - his flair with AVBs methodical process could work well. (Never going to happen mind you).
oi.you.there
Anyone knows what has happened to Chadli the new Tottenham winger who AVB believes is not as good as Siggi, even though he personally signed him? Is he injured, or does AVB not get on with him on a personal level like, Benny, Ade and Kaboul? Apparently AVB did not got on with Lampard and other Chelsea players on a personal level either whilst at Chelsea either, which cost him his job! Fergie had a bad personal relationship with both Beckham and Rooney, but was never stupid enough not to play them. Winning silverware was his only goal! Drop your huge ego AVB and play your best players, or Big Joe will instruct Danny boy to get out his favorite back stabbing dagger!
pelebro
Spursone2 Ė Yeah I guess I am including myself in that category, by which I meanÖ.have eyes in my head and can see the blatant bloody great problem with the way we are playing. Its ok mate, if your happy the way we are thatís up to you, you want to watch 0-0 games where we could win, or losing because the managers favourites cant complete a single bloody pass to the striker, thatís fine. MeÖÖ..I think Iíll overreact, kneejerk, throw a hissy, put on my big fickle hat on if itís all the same to you.
hudderspur
Hamstring injury, keep with the program pelebro?
SpursOne2
James1 - agree, we do need another LB in our squad. I do think that AVB can fix the left side before Chadli or Rose are back though. He just needs to switch Townsend over there or bring in Lamela or Lennon. It's balance we need, not perfection.

coys1717 - also agree that Soldado didn't have his best game yesterday. I think he's getting confused with Townsend and Walker who should be playing the balls into the dangerous areas but more often than not bring it closer and look for the cut back. I remember one clear chance yesterday where it looked like Soldado wasn't getting into the right area but in fact he had made his mind up the ball would be squared rather than whipped in.
muttley
hudders - Do what you want chuck your toys all over the place if you want. I like constructive criticism, and no i dont agree with all the points you have just made in your post. I want us to win each game, if we dont bounce back and make sure we work harder in the next one. I think we lack a little in areas, do have eyes self thanks. Other areas we are still getting better and better week in week out, its hard to talk about that side after a disappointing game against the toon :-( they were so lucky. COYS.
SpursOne2
longtimespur, we are shooting more than others, but from where is the question. We shoot from acute angles & from > 25 yards out. With teams camping in front of us, all these shots on goal are going to be blocked - tahts exactly what is happeneing. To avoid this, stretching the field ofplay is crucial. For this wingers-CM have to work together. Our CM Dembele cannot hit cross field or diagonal balls. Paulinho tries this atleast. And our wingers need to use the width and cross some ball to be unpredictable., We do neither, so only option is to go through the crowded center.

We get loads of corners, but our corners are poor & headers are poor as well. So, we dont score from setpieces as well.

Problem is rectifiable just need players to play with some unpredictability & manager to keep all options open. Southampton is very very close to our style of play. Only they have better full backs who compensate. Our fullbacks, Walker cannot cross the ball or beat the man. Left side, Jan though is good, has his limitation. Naughton-less said the better
sydqcb5
Topho - Thanks for the explanation, I would say the Soldado and the Eriksen chances were the most clear cut chances as well, the Eriksen one being the most clear cut. I did see your Newcastle comment, just wanted a clearer understanding. Yes we don't create them enough.
Kong
Another distasteful aspect of AVBul... He seems to lead Spurs fans a merry path, doesn't he?. A classic example is the Sandro "injury". He had stated that Sandro was taken off as he had picked up a hamstring knock or something. Everybody thought he was injured and would be out for at least a week. What happens? He gets selected among the substitutes; and when he comes on, shows no signs of any injury. And statements of injuries are quite as baffling. Injuries to Chadli, Rose, Kaboul(recent) are reported giving the wrong impression on the gravity, as well as when the player is expected to return. Also, for a long time now, a player gets injured; he issues statements that the player would be out 1, 2 weeks; eventually, to the utter frustration of fans, the injury develops into a major one, with no end in sight on when the player would be fit again. I believe AVB... hides behind injuries for reasons for not picking players. I don't know - it's a hunch.
dagobert
That is what is frustrating, we have the squad to do the damage and play fast tempo football. I do rate Soldado and believe he will score the goals if we played slightly differently.
Kong
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2013/11/10/moussa-dembele-dissatisfied-at-tottenham-belgian-press/
sydqcb5
And Kane has a back injury. Withdrawn from U21 squad. How bad I do not know.
sydqcb5
I'm not buying this tripling up on Townsend crap - why didn't he play the simple early ball and work on his movement to find some space? All I saw was him running headlong into dead ends or shooting aimlessly, losing the ball and then watching his markers mount the counter! Not overlooking the ODD chance that he did create - by the way, as crap as some say he played, Eriksen created 8 chances yesterday!
Durbanspur
I like Townsend. I like his energy and his enthusiasm. I think he has great potential. I think it might even be realised eventually. But, imo, he needs a break. His decision making is poor. He is too one-dimensional in his play. He so badly wants to be another Bale that his instinctive reaction, when getting the ball, is to cut inside and shoot. Now and again is fine ... but, all the time?! He does this so often that it is predictable and destroys the shape of the team. He needs to be a winger and he needs to think more about a wingersí main objective. I am saying this because he is young and needs to learn that the team comes before individual glory, and to realise that there is still so much more to learn as a footballer. As I said ... I like Townsend.
Geofspurs
SpursOne2, So Chadli is out with a hamstring injury. Thanks for the info, but did he not get kicked out of the team before he was injured? And what about, Ade, Lamela, Kaboul and Gomez? Are they not fit enough to start in the Premiership? The French keeper was fit enough to stay on the pitch against Everton after getting knocked out according to AVB, and then not fit enough to play against Newcastle even though he was fully recovered according to the keeper? And what about Gomez? Surely he would have been a better option than the 42 year old keeper who's legs have gone? Or does AVB not get on with Gomez either? Does AVB get on with anyone other than Captain Fantastic Dawson and Townsend?
pelebro
Townsend screams impact sub to me. Someone to bring on the stretch a game, run at tired legs change the system. I think Lennon is more of a "team" player. If AVB insists on playing Townsend, he has to be coached to be more productive, and used as an out and out winger. How about play him on the left so he can go n the outside, and swng crosses in with his natural foot. And play lamela on the right side where he shone for ROma. Not rocket science AvB
mattspurs1982
The biggest problem we have is keeping Sandro fit and getting a long run in the team. It seems if we can do this we can build a midfield around him and rotate the other players around him. He is clearly the best player to play the anchor roll, but tends to play a couple of games and then miss a couple through injuries. It was the same before his long lay off last January. Dembele also is now only a squad player who is ok for coming on and bolstering the midfield in the last quarter in games.
WestStandEnclosure
mattspurs ... we seem to be together on that one, mate!
Geofspurs
A lot of good points and I think to sum up we can say that, apart from AVB's strange decisions, the main issue is that he doesn't set the team up to win games in the games he should be. For example, setting up with two DM's would work away from home against the top sides - even against the top sides a home it wouldn't be a bad thing to set up not to lose. However, when you play the so called lesser teams you have to set up to win the game. AVB is limited in his thinking and too afraid to lose yet we have already lost 3 out of 11 and only scored 9 goals. Not good enough though I do think we will perform well against the two Manchester clubs.
The Tailor
pelebro, AVB strikes me as willing to get on with all the players, it doesn't mean he has to take any crap from the likes of Ade who hardly gets a pre-season in hisses off to Africa whenever he wants to. Everyone will get their chance under AVB if they put the work in. AVB still doesn't know his best 11, do you? A lot of players to integrate, was never going to be easy.
ItalianYiddo
My point exactly, Tailor. The issue with Dembele is AVB imo. He is not a defensive mfer but when Eriksen is played he is shoe-horned into it.
love totty
muttley -'It's balance we need, not perfection.'.....best line of the day! I'm sure there's an article in there as well....
shedboy2
Indeed LT - AVB needs to wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late. Playing inverted wingers DM's that aren't DM's etc is going to get him the sack.
The Tailor
For all we know AVB might be under instruction from Levy to ***** Ade off, so no criticism can be justified for that, but yes there are signs that players are starting to show discontent. This will always happen in big squads when results are not coming. All this bollox about gelling and settling in is naive imo. It's a vicious/virtuous circle; confidence builds performance but lack of performance breeds disharmony and lack of team spirit. I remember Ramos.
love totty
Topho - I assume you are talking about Siggy :).
Kong
It seems that AVB is putting the Euro League games ahead of prem. games.. cos his target is top 4 PL.. and he wants to win Euro League. So knockout games now.. no time to recover for next game. in Euro.. as in PL... or am i mistaken ?
Block D Spurs
We havnt made enough of Dembele since we've bought him. We need to accomodate him better or risk losing a real gifted footballer.
oi.you.there
tops- yes we have a problem on the left....BUT Townsend is compounding that by being ineffective on the right....and we have better options there...we need to use them.
shedboy2
Terry McSweeney- double standards or double posts...;)
shedboy2
pelebro Ė You are not a PL manager, nor I. I am aware that we have a number of games to play across several competitions and players need games. All players, they are all professionals and will do a job. Chadli for your information has been injured since the last game he played. According to you he should start anywayÖ..same for Ade who has had no pre-season and Gomez? He wasnít playing under harry? Shall I go on? If you were in charge we would be relegated, I know that much. You have issues with things and want to actually add to the discussion fine, watch the games, get your information strait. How can you when you donít even know who is available? COYS.
SpursOne2
We don't know what is going on with Ade, one minute he is in contention and then injured. Hard to comment on that one and how Ade is around the place.
Kong
We are all agreed that Siggy had a shocker yesterday - not a single poster has defended him . I'm just saying that Townsend was poor yesterday and needs to vary his play, do different things....not be so predictable....all in the interest of his development - can't accept excuses for the lack of this.
Durbanspur
just read a stat that Andros has completed 33 more dribbles than Cristiano Ronaldo, just too greedy....his shots ratio as someone posted above is abysmal...all the stats and my eyes are screaming to get this boy off the pitch....btw eriksen created 9 chances yesterday despite having a poor game, he was the best of our 3 amigos....
shedboy2
I am with you there Topho, Siggy has not played the role he would be most comfortable and I don't think he is our best option there anyway. Let the players compete at their natural positions and those that can play a more free role then let them cover or changes positions if needed.
Kong
Terry ... I thought the same thing about the ratings. Doesn't make sense ... so I agree with BOTH your posts!!
Geofspurs
tophobunty3 - agree that the problem is left, so the soluion is put townsend there on his stronger foot (esp as we lack NATURAL left side options wth Chadli out) and bring in Lennon /Lamela and tell both to get to the by line and get crosses in the box for RS9
mattspurs1982
tops- I think you're right about the media pressure to play Andros and imo AVB needs to be stronger in the face of the media and make some tough decisions...If Townsend can offer us a service on the left then let's give him a go...would have been ideal to play him there in the cups as opposed to 'resting' him for our big games. However i do think his lack of composure, decision making, defensive frailties and lack of team play will still mean he gets over taken by Chadli once fit again (and imo chadli's not top4 quality!)
shedboy2
On Eriksen, most of his set piece dliveries were poor - which was disappointing as that was one of his best attributes displayed at Ajax. I think he;s just a little casual at the moment, and possibly under-estimates the pace and ferocity of the EPL. That will come with time.
mattspurs1982
Block D - I think it's more that AVB is being lulled into a false sense of security midweek - his starting 11 are not being exposed by the the poor standard of the opposition and we don't seem to realise that PL teams are not so forgiving!
Durbanspur
Without being unfair to Krul, I don't think our shots on target were all that great. Goalies having a blinder against us is a recurring theme now. We are hard to score against, hard to hold possession against, but boy are we easy to defend against. I reckon most of the league has us down for a draw. Two points off Spurs are not to be sniffed at by any side. Teams like Fulham will think 'we'll lose most of our games' so two points off us is good. A side like Man U will think, 'we'll win most of our games' so two points off Spurs is also fine. Our high defensive line and sweeper keeper makes it hard to score against us, but it also means every player is in one half of the pitch. That's a lot of players to try and pass through. I would drop Townsend. Lennon is one of our best and most experienced players. Also try Soldado and Defoe together. The plan needs shaking up a bit because we are losing our momentum, and fast.
edmontonspurs
I think eriksen will come good - he's just not up to the speed and physicality of the PL yet...he needs easing in. And when you put a lightweight Eriksen with a greedy townsend and invisible Gylfi (worst performance for me) is it any wonder we can't score?...they don't compliment each other...Eriksen's delivery was poor from set pieces so Andros runs over and shows him how to take a really poor corner!
shedboy2
We have Daws, Kaboul, verts, Sandro, Pauli all good in the air -just put the ball on the penalty spot and tell them to attack it!
shedboy2
Lol, Shed! I had forgotten that!
Durbanspur
Geofspurs agree totally what you said about Townsend. Too predictable and needs to mix his game. A break will dobhim a well of good. COYS!
James1
I think townsend will take being dropped ok. It would put a lot of pressure on him to keep playing him and expect him to turn the performances around when we have over £50m of mid fielders recently signed. I can't believe Lamela wasn't handed a start. Could have been a good game to up his confidence. He must be desperate for a half decent performance in the league now.
edmontonspurs
Topho - You never seem to amaze, yesterday we did everything but score, even the stats back that up. You seem to thrive on us failing so you can play your "I told you so card". Sandro was NOT injured because your 'sauce' says so. Yesterday our midfield in the first half were terrible, especially the wide men with Siggy being the worst of a bad bunch. The introduction of Sandro was the key change, however both Siggy and Townsend continued their first half form. Unfortunately the injury to Chiriches (My source told me he couldn't continue) we were forced to bring on Kaboul, which is not a bad substitution but not a needed one as the back 4 were redundant in the 2nd half. We needed more/different creativity and that should have been Holtby/Lamela for Siggy but AVB played the wrong card and bought on Defoe. Erikson's chance was our best one and should have been a goal but I can count at least 5 chances that on another day go in, therefore yes we are all depressed at the result but the performance was one of the best of the season.
yiddyboy
Lennon needs to play out on the right again. He's fantastic at widening the pitch as he hugs the touchline, he'll attract defenders so Eriksen will have more space, and while his crosses arent always brilliant our new 'box to box' midfielder Paulinho will actually have something to anticipate. I think townsend has been excellent but end product has been lacking. What better way to encourage him to pass more than to drop him for a game!? Plus Lennon has been so crucial to us on the right in recent years he deserves another crack in his best position.
oi.you.there
tops- you're missing the point...andros has completed 33 MORE dribbles than as you say the best player in the world....in other words he's attempting things EVEN the best player in the world doesn't... perhaps he is not the root of our problem but there are currently two better players for his position sitting on the bench...it's a no-brainer to fix.
shedboy2
ItalianYiddo, "You say AVB does not his best 11 do you?". That's very worrying if you feel our coach does not know the best 11 players to select from game to game! Fergie was the master of adapting his team from game to game, to come up with the best starting 11! These are the decisions top coaches are paid to make. As for me, well I am of the personal opinion (like many thousands of other Spurs fans) that Friedel should not have been on the pitch on Sunday even if the french keeper was truly injured? That Kaboul is a vastly superior centre back to Dawson, that Lamela after his great performance in the Europa should have been given a starting place in the team against Newcastle in place of no assists in 10 Premiership starts Townsend. I also believe that Chadli when fit should be given a run of games in the first team ahead of Siggi, but what do I know, I am only a fan with an opinion, like all of us on here. Sadly for us the pro who gets paid a few million quid a year to make these very decisions is not currently picking the best players available, in my humble opinion...
pelebro
The Tailor The "official reason" Hugo was out of the squad was because he was feeling ill all week. Just saying. Please don't shoot the messenger as I am just repeating what has come from the club/AVB. Also I still say we NEED a fit and motivated ADE playing with Soldado.
chrishove123
You're welcome Topho :-)

shedboy - Townsend is creating space only he is "at the moment" a one trick pony that's end product is dreadful. I posted before the Newcastle game and I'll say it again. He needs to be moved to the left where he will naturally want to go outside forcing him to cross the ball or he should be benched. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and play him left first. Siggy is not a left winger, he'd also be far more effective on the right as his delivery is one of his strengths. AVB must realize this too. Our weakness is our left side as we are playing our 4th choice LB and the LW is not a natural LW.
yiddyboy
For a modern manager; a statistician who loves his powerpoint presentations, you'd think AVB would come to the same conclusions.
oi.you.there
pelebro... you do realise it took Fergie a while to hit the ground running right?
taniban
HA HA HA I remember all the posts on here slagging Lennon off for not being able to cross and his final ball being *****£, but now he is being touted as the saviour on the right and suddenly everyone wants him back in. What's the betting that as soon as he does have a run of games those same people will change their tune and get right on his back again. Oh well, never mind, it does give me a good laugh when that sort of thing happens.
chrishove123
That's a pretty good opinion Pelebro!
Durbanspur
If anyone is in any doubt of AVB's aversion to risk surely it is in the double substitution at half time. 0-1 down and he brings on two defense minded subs. Why not let Verts cover across and bring on Lennon or Lamela instead of Kaboul? Sandro is more than capable of plugging any holes down the centre and the extra width might have been decisive.
love totty
You're right, Chrishove, it's no one players fault nor will one player fix the problem. It's all AVB's.
love totty
pelebro - One of your best posts on this site. We have far more quality in depth but some of the no-brainer selections do puzzle. Of course we don't know if someone is carrying a niggle or not, nor do we not see what goes on in training. Our formation is far too defensive at home, like I've already said, away from home I like it but at home we should be trying to win the game from the off irrespective of who the opposition is.

I still believe AVB is the man to take us forward, he just needs to stop emulating England managers. You pick a formation to play then pick the best players for each position, and not pick the best XI players that are fit and then try to make them fit the desired formation.
yiddyboy
Chris - stop that - no one wants to be reminded what great posters we are;-)
Durbanspur
love totty, would you be saying that if we lost 3-0 due to being light at the back? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
taniban
Siggy will keep on doing what he has done for us since he first signed here..........stink out the place like he did on sunday, and now get dropped for a few games. He will then follow this up with a crucial goal coming of the bench and then start for us again until he has the next stinker for us!! that tells me the trouble is none of our offensive MF players are setting the world alight!!
WestStandEnclosure
pelebro ... I also think AVB is still working the squad out. But I agree with everything else you said about the players... so, I'd say, you know a lot!
Geofspurs
We all know it was a poor first half yesterday and yes certain players were off form but, in the second half, we piled on the pressure and we were unlucky not to score. Is AVB really to blame for that? Was he working Krul and the Magpies defence by remote control? In hindsight, of course, he could of done things differently, but really, is it the end of our season and all down hill from hereon in? I am as frustrated and disappointed as the next man but we are not in the relegation zone. We are not loosing the plot and we will have bad days, good days and unlucky days. (Who was it that beat City yesterday)? COYS!
MAN ON!
All the talk about players who should play where and how yet it's a lot of hot air. Seeing how arrogant and stubborn the current manager is all this debate is good for nothing. He's not eager to change things. He continues to play the same formation and steps on the same rake twice repeating one drab display after another. At home. He criticizes fans. He just doesn't learn. The buck stops with AVB. He should be sacked because he won't go until "he finishes his little project", i.e. never. I personally will boycott all our home games until this failure is gone for good. And I'm calling for all fellow spurs fans to do the same. Time is precious. Mark my words: inevitably it will only get worse with time (his timeline at Chelsea springs to mind). Get rid of him now before both the team and the club are brought into disrepute. We'll survive and move forward, not sideways or backwards as his preferred destinations appear to be.
Moscovite
taniban That is my argument too, and Fergie came within a gnat's whisker of being sacked as Manure manager,. Now look at what he achieved.
chrishove123
Moscovite - No chance. Boycot all home games you must be nutts ha
SpursOne2
I think the big problem is AvB not switching Townsend during the game to the left side just to mix it up abit. Townsend is now clearly seen by the management as the new GB11, which also is probably contributing to townsend trying to take on too much and sometimes making the wrong decisions.
WestStandEnclosure
Hope i'm not the only one at the lane against man u. Their away fans will be there (minus the ones who are boycotting all games because of Moyes). COYS.
SpursOne2
The only problem I have with AVB is that he seems to fold to media pressure. The whole Lloris incident, sticking to Townsend, playing Defoe etc..

Lloris would have played yesterday if the media didn't make such a big thing out of it. Townsend will still be a sub if the media didn't portray him to 'England's bright hope'. Defoe is not a 'clinical finisher' etc...
taniban
I think the players should all stay at home! Let United play against our Legends.....I'm sure Chivers has got a few more goals left in him and Jennings is more than capable of playing the high line....
MAN ON!
MAN ON - And the fans! All behind closed doors haha
SpursOne2
I'm tearing up my membership card right now and sticking pins in my AVB voodoo doll!
MAN ON!
The good thing now is the 2 week lay off, which should release some pressure building up on the manager and players. COYS
WestStandEnclosure
Topho - Are you missing these members? Probably the AGM for 'get Topho out' plc.
Kong
Man On - LOL!
taniban
Taniban - in isolation I would agree with you, but drawing blanks is becoming the norm so maybe a little risk taking would not be a bad thing.
love totty
Townsend just needs to knuckle down. He is talented and level headed. He'll come good, just need a little patience with him. Let him play left side AVB ffs! COYS!
James1
started to have doubts about AVB a few weeks back and those thoughts are becoming stronger. Lennon on the right, Lamela in the middle and Towsend on the left looks like a possible combination to me too. AVB will be under fire very soon if performances don't improve.
asherthesmasher
Fans calling for AVB's head, WOW, just WOW!!!
We are not 2 points from 8 games material, we are right in the mix for top 4, still in all cups. Other clubs are dropping points too. Some people are just unbelievable. Is there anyone on here that really thought we'd have 33 points and a goal difference of +30???
yiddyboy
I'd be interested to hear from those who want "AVB out" who they'd bring in. Come on guys AVB is not going to get the sack 11 games into the season with 2 defeats. Big games coming up admittedly but the most negative of fans have always said judge AVB after Xmas.
jacobslad
Yiddyboy - I was wishing we had those stats :).
Kong
i would also suggest if Ade is fit, start playing him.
asherthesmasher
People who want AVB out..fine. they are entitled to their opinion but I think they are in the minority? I will support Spurs regardless. I trust AVB and nothing will change that. I believe it will work out for AVB and for Spurs in time. COYS!
James1
Topho, I couldn't say who it was, all I remember is there was a lot of it. You could be right about most of it coming from Bigc.
chrishove123
There are rumors AVB will look to sign another striker in the Summer. Levy is backing him according to info from in the camp. Easy COYS
SpursOne2
I think Moscovite sumed it all up "All the talk about players who should play where and how yet it's a lot of hot air. Seeing how arrogant and stubborn the current manager is all this debate is good for nothing". AVB seems to have belief in his methods, and thats how it will stay, thats a shame as we have a real talented squad that can challenge for a Top 4 place, and a trophy, we may still deliver a trophy as IMO he plays the best team in the EL, but our home form will badly affect ur chances of finishing in the top 4, As things stand I see us challenging with Everton for 6th.
Ossie
SpursOne2 I heard we could be in for Hernandez.
chrishove123
We're 7th man city are 8th, how does that work out? Awful game yesterday, we didnt play that bad but 12:00am kick off, Tim krul and our inability to kick the ball in the f6(king net made for a horrible ugly Sunday afternoon. Stubhub is going to get very busy if this carries on..
T.H.F.Chris
That's what MY source says anyway.
chrishove123
AVB WASN'T pandering to the press/media when he left Hugo out. It was on advice from his medical team. ......................................... http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/10/andre-villas-boas-spurs-medical-hugo-lloris
chrishove123
4 things which are killing us at the moment. 1) We are unable to change the dynamic up front. Soldado to Defoe = same, except maybe even inferior (debatable). 2) We are unable to transition defense to attack through central midfield quickly. Still no replacement for Modric. Dembele, Paulinho, Eriksen all pretenders IMO. This is absolutely killing us. 3) Playing to0 many players out of position. Eg. Siggi on the left, Verts/Naughton LB, Lennon LM, Dembele, CM, Holtby/Eriksen number 10. 4) Not attacking the box in numbers. The sad part about yesterday was that during the second half we played some of our best and highest tempo football all season, but yet again, our inability to create enough clear cut chances, coupled with a slow ineffective first half hour was our undoing.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Just a reminder of the situation after 11 games last year:
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html?season=2012-2013&month=NOVEMBER&timelineView=date&toDate=1352678399999&tableView=CURRENT_STANDINGS
jacobslad
Itís all about Spurs for me. Managers come and go, sometimes unfairly sometimes justified Ė for spurs itís just happens too frequently. What we do need to do imo is not sack a manager every 5 minutes and actually let a new look side develop when the quality is there to see. When a manager comes in and improves players and changes a system but still breaks our max point record in the first season, it cant be all that bad. For our chairman and owners to then back him with big players incoming it kind of tells you we are aiming the right direction. Fed up with people knee jerking when we are trying to improve in more than one area of the field. We have invested a lot in this side and so now they need to play together, we could make further changes, new manager coaches, but then new players on top? Another season of trying to get the right team in before we have to wait again for the side to develop? For now this season we have to stick behind the lads and keep working hard. COYS.
SpursOne2
topho, It is a shame that so many people feel they have to jump ship because of the few. I know we've had our differences but as far as we're concerned it's all water under the bridge. That is how it should be. I agree he was a good poster and I do miss his posts as I miss Coopsies too. Still, upwards and onwards as they say.
chrishove123
if we're in for Hernandez and not another type of striker as well then I'm afraid the board and management have not learned a thing...
shedboy2
I find it amazing that Townsend or Gylfi didn't complete a pass to the main striker...surely that stat is wrong?
shedboy2
Cleveland ARTSPURS I agree with you up to a certain point, but 14 saves by Krul shows we DID create the chances and plenty of them, we just had an inspired 'keeper against us and the rest of the time we could't convert the balls in the box into shots or they just threw themselves in front of the shots and blocked. Look at that beautiful cross from Townsend that no one not even Krul got anywhere near.
chrishove123
chrishove123- agree...why can't people have disagreements and different views without getting childish and abusive?....I tend to take a back seat during those 'discussions' ....this is a good site to air views and we used to have some really well informed posters with info out of the club and some really knowledgeable on the accounts...shame they have melted away....
shedboy2
AVB is pants.Sack him right now before the season is lost and get Pochettino from Southampton.He transformed the Saints from day one and would do the same for us .We have good crew but a lousy captain.
Greavesaboveall
chrishove123- wasn't that eriksen's cross from the right? straight into the gully between goalie and back line....the one we were surprised not see Soldado attack?
shedboy2
I think it's too early to talk of sacking AVB...he'll get this season, all of it. But the board do need to back him and get a LB and back to goal striker in January....
shedboy2
how many did who get and by whom? Quť?
shedboy2
Tops- perhaps if Soldado and Gylfi were used to seeing those crosses from the right they would have been ready, hmm i wonder who should be supplying those?....;)
shedboy2
My take on the Newcastle game.

Have not read any of the comments on the Newcastle game.

Have only missed the two EL away games this season, otherwise have seen the lot.

Supported AVB last year and thought we would press on this.

We had a lot of shots yesterday but scored zero.

The game, First half normal poor display from all concerned especially Townsend and Dembele.

After Newcastle's goal was scored, no real attempt to grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Second half, more like what I had hoped Spurs were going to bring to the table.

Players.

Friedal, played ok, did not let us down.

Walker, good game.

Dawson, good game.

Chiriches, poor game, responsible for the goal.

Vertongen, good game, actually very good.

Townsend, poor game, what is going on here.

Dembele, poor game, though he was special last year.

Paulino, poor game, do not see what he brings to Spurs.

Sigurson, okayish

Erickson, poor game, poor set piece delivery.

Soldado, poor game, got chances, spurned the lot.

Kabould, good game.

Sandro, good game.

Defoe, poor game, actually dreadful.

AVB, poor game.

All the above is just my opinion as is what I have put below, many people here will not agree, perhaps some will..

We were yet again (second half excepted) as dull as dishwater. No real drive to start the game. We start every game as if it is a practice session.

I understand players have to 'gel' but they could look like they could be bothered to earn their wages.

The excuse of EL does not cut it, we have a massive squad and there were more than enough changes made between Thursday and Sunday.

Surely if we want CL, which shoud provide a sterner test, we should be dominating games in the EL with a completely different team.

PL games, yes we are sitting seventh and teams around us are losing games they shouldn't, don't really care about the other teams, just our Spurs.

AVB wants the crowd to cheer along the dross we are producing. Lets start the home hames by harrying the opposition, perhaps moving the ball quicker and wanting to win more.

Only my opinion and I will get slated for this but, Dembele, what is he doing? Paulino, do not see what he brings to the team, Soldado ! does not fit out game, Townsend, out on loan so many times because he is not good enough.

Yesterdays game cried out for Holtby in the middle, Lamela on the right.

Too many players are just 'not doing it'

Perhaps all the above is harsh, perhaps I should just carry on going to every game and excepting this without a moan but I cannot. We are very poor at the moment.

Really though we would be challenging this year, now I am almost cringing at the thought of the 'better' teams coming to WHL, not the likes of WHU and NUFC and battering us.

First time for years I have been so disappointed in our Spurs.

Sorry that was such a long moan.

Will read the comments now....

I will be there at the next game singing along, lets hope we all have something to sing about ..... COYS

ro6ertj
shedboy2 Sorry my bad, yes it was Erickson's cross, not Townsend's. And yes I wonder who should be out on the right as well. Maybe Lennon on the right and MacCartney on the left with Ringo in goal and Harrison as our striker. LOL
chrishove123
I just read it wasn't fourteen saves by Krul, it was SEVENTEEN.
chrishove123
I don't know whether that is better or worse for us. Shows the chances were there, but also shows our failings in front of goals.
chrishove123
Chris and Shedboy2 totally agree with you re: posters should not be abusive and get along. Arguments are fine as long as it's not personal. I hope it stays that way. G COYS!
James1
I don't know...it was another poster who said they hadn't completed one pass to him....yes lennon will cross more...remember feed the goat and he will score, we have to feed Soldado...I do know that townsend has had almost twice as many shots as Soldado...that he was at one point statistically the worst forward in the whole of Europe....buy hey ho he's our best...;)
shedboy2
feck off james1.....;)
shedboy2
james1- just for avoidance of any doubt that was me kidding...;)
shedboy2
I think youg Harry Kane should start to feature in the first team for a few games. He looked pretty impressive and he had confidence aplenty.
chrishove123
Topho you got it mate because you deserved it. I won't back down to a bully. Never have never will. I will let people make up there own minds about you. If you tell a poster to go down on his Mrs then clearly something is not right eh? Banned how many times? How many aliases? Tophobunty, 1, 2, 3, 4/ian Bale? I've tried to get along with you but you don't learn. Agreeing to Chris and Shed just makes me laugh about not being abusive to fellow posters and getting along. You're making mugs of all of us. Ok Topho lets wipe the slate clean. Everybody take note what he has said re: posters should not be childish/abusive. Let's see how long he lasts. Over to you Topho. COYS!
James1
James1 Give him his due, he has changed his attitude and his posts are so much the better for it.
chrishove123
Alright we lost to Newcastle, because Tim Krul had a blinder, fine, but before we talk about "knee jerks", what about our last 3 home games, not just yesterday. We beat Hull City in our last fixture in an insomnia cure of a game by 1-0 due to a very "generous" penalty, ably converted by our new £26M penalty taker. The game before that we got stuffed 3-0 by West Ham, the reason being our manager got out thought by that renowned tactical genius Sam "half a brain cell" Allardyce, incidentally, when was our last 3-0 home defeat to a bottom half club, I can't remember it. Then we lost yesterday to Newcastle, so rather than talk "knee jerk", I would rather talk " trend developing". There are two facts that are indisputable, firstly if you wish to challenge for anything you must win your home games, and secondly if you expect to win games either home, or away, you have to score at a better rate than our current one of 9 in 11, 6 in 11 from open play). In order to do this a) somebody needs to admit to his mistakes, rather than blaming bad luck and making inane excuses, and b) He needs to swallow his pride, his stubborn attitude, and his considerable ego, and effect the changes, before we get left behind. I fear that waiting for the January window, to right the mistakes made in the summer, will be too late, always assuming that there is even more money available, which I seriously doubt.
Frank
Topho - Townsend actually passed to Soldado who was aware enough to step over and create the chance for Erikson, so both players deserve a mention. Hard that of been Defoe then the chance would not of arrived at Erikson. Lucky save by Krul but still a poor miss and I think Erikson will know that too.
yiddyboy
It is reported in the Belgian media that Dembele is "dissatisfied with his role at Spurs". Well I have got news for him, so are many of us watching him. For the sake of clarification which role is he eluding to, the role of failing mid field player, or the role of rarely fit, resident sick note.
Frank
Frank - LOL, Dembele has been poor for a while now. It is almost like he's carrying an injury. What role does he actually want to play then?
yiddyboy
Apart from the many shortcomings this manager has, I would like to point out the most being talked about today. For crying out loud! The most salient point of criticism against AVB on yesterday's game was this: Why, ffs why, didn't he play Lamela- even from the start? This does not mean that Lamela would have put in another blinder as against Sheriff or Hull. He might have had a quiet game. But that's not the point. It is why not give the lad a chance at all! That decision was disgraceful. And the manager has to answer to the question why?
dagobert
Frank - I remember an issue we had early in the first season when we were getting goals but not finishing teams off and conceding late. Have we addressed that? What have we actually learnt from slow play in the first half and solid second halves that we are seeing now? How to we crack that. I early goals and still finish teams off late is ideal but as you say, AVB needs to first spot the area we most need to improve and work with the team. If we start with more intent, fine but the last thing we want to do is leave our selves open or tire and slack off again late. We have to improve on what we have learned and learn from the mistakes if we are to develop. What would you do then? After AVB has admitted Mistakes? . Also, some people are knee jerking, thatís my opinion. COYS.
SpursOne2
Chiriches did not give a 50/50 ball to Paulinho. Paulinho had more than enough time to trap the ball and move on, he chose to let the ball run past himself with a view of heading towards the Right of MF. Trouble being the extra yards he let the ball run past him gave Gouffran enough of a chance to make a 50/50 out of it. Chiriches also got back ( in between RB/RCB position) and put yet another amazing block in to deny a scoring opportunity. Paulinho was the fault for the goal. Inferior 1st half on his part, poor effort in the tackle.
Cider spurs
James, no, Ian Bale is me (according to WizYid). Also I live in Russia and am married to Kournikova (from the same source).
Moscovite
I don't want AVB out because I am not comfortable with sacking managers the Chelsea style but I really don't think he is good enough for the long term... Also can not help but wonder if Chelsea would have still won the Champions League if they wouldn't have sacked him... his excuses for poor results don't make him look smarter than redknapp either
logos8
Do City want Pellegrini out, do Chelsea want Mourinho out???? It is pathetic to hear fans call for AVB's head. He needs our support and backing, what I see from Spurs fans is different to the majority of other clubs. We are never happy, we moan when we sack managers to quickly and then we cry for a sacking when things are not going to plan. Levy stated that we (the club) are going in a new direction a total change of methods from top to bottom. Is he foolish enough to think that will work overnight?? He will give AVB until the end of the season and then assess. We still have 3 cups to play for and are well in the mix of the top 4 spots. If we can turn WHL into a orchestra of support this will be the starting point for us search for the right formula. How ironic is it for our fans to sing about the 'Emirates Library' when our own ground is hardly rocking. We (the fans) need to give AVB and the hierarchy no excuses, at the moment it seems very much cat and mouse!
yiddyboy
@ChrisHove. I thought Krull played really well yesterday, he's a GK'er I really rate, however I felt that we made it too easy for him with some of our "finishing". Soldado, Eriksen and Kaboul all should really have taken their chances. I have no idea how Yanga-Mbiwa managed to hook Kaboul's away from under the cross bar. 9 times out of 10, that's an own goal. NBCSN also showed the press conference after the game yesterday when AVB was questioned about Lloris. It was said that Lloris was feeling ill and that he had failed an "impact test" before the game, so was rendered by the medical staff as unfit to play. AVB looked extremely nervous throughout the interview, rather than his usual calm and collected self, and was constantly fidgeting with a bracelet he was wearing. The whole thing was a bit surreal to be honest.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
last season we scored 18 goals in our first 11 matches and got 17 points. Can't say this season is much better and can't say there are signs we might improve soon. I don't even want to imagine what the top teams will do to us, we are very predictable, but at least we can win the Europa League. lol
logos8
"tops- you're missing the point...andros has completed 33 MORE dribbles than as you say the best player in the world....in other words he's attempting things EVEN the best player in the world doesn't"

Come on Shedboy. Ronaldo's role is completely different to Tonsends. Ronaldo spends half his time in the box waiting for Bale or Di maria to cross to him, while Townsend is hardly ever in the box. ie there are more opportunities for Townsend to dribble. According to whoscored statistics, Ronaldo is ranked 149th for successful dribbles per game in Europe. Guys like Ribery(1), Diego (2) Townsend (3) and Draxler (6) Messi (9) are top 10.
Guyver
It's that little adage about stats and context again Guyver.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
HA HA just read the report about Dembele being unsatisfied with his role at Spurs. A very rough and ready translation basically says he wants to play more but AVB wants m ore defensive mid fielders in at the moment. It is all pretty much paper talk as any player wants to play. It's just something being made out of nothing seemingly to sell copy. Just like the British press really, pretty much bull$h1t as far as I can see. ................................................................ http://www.nieuwsblad.be/sportwereld/cnt/dmf20131108_00830661
chrishove123
Topho don't phuck with me or anyone else and it will be fine. I'm all for arguments and heated but don't insult, put down or wind-up me or anyone else up and we will get along fine (I think) but we've been down this road before so I wont be holding my breath. At least you have the decency to apologise to Peter. COYS!
James1
Cleveland ARTSPURS Yeah I knew about the Lloris feeling ill bit as I posted something similar earlier, I didn't get to see the post match interview. There is a link for it too. Here it is again in case you missed it. ............................................................................ http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/10/andre-villas-boas-spurs-medical-hugo-lloris
chrishove123
So here's the deal. Inverted wingers are deployed as a goal threat, and to provide assists as well as adding numbers to the central attack. Townsend has been a threat at times, in certain games i feel we would be lying if we did not see him as the main threat. Good enough or not , he was. Problem being 1 goal from circa 40 shots and accuracy of 2.5% suggests other than threat, it never really comes to fruition. Agreed he laid on a few chances yesterday, but BOTH Left and Right need addressing. Siggy has chipped in with some goals, Townsend has offered a little service. Neither have produced enough in these roles. So we either now give another a true run of half a dozen games ( Lamela right, Chadli, Townsend, Lamela Left). Wrong players in the wrong roles. Can't be anything other. Threats do not win matches, goals do, let's play the right players in correct positions, those that can cross the ball if we chhose to play traditional or have players that are comfortable drifting in as an inverted and shoot with accuracy and or have enough belief to look for a pass as opposed to rush the final ball. Let's pick 11 players suitable for the job, play them week in, week out in the league for a run and work with them. It may just be only 1 or 2 need tweaking, but the lack of consistency is becoming detrimental at times now. Let's get the same 11 players forming partnerships and see where it takes us. Injuries considered of course.
Cider spurs
Yeah yiddyboy the same Defoe that laid one of our best chances to Paulinho, what a load of bull***** I have to read on here on a dailty basis
Ossie
It is now being reported that the medics cannot give an accurate date of return for Lloris, so much for "he was OK" or "he wanted to stay on", not looking such a good call now is it.
Frank
Cider spurs That's pretty much the way I saw it too. I couldn't believe the way Paulinho left it so late before he made his move proper. I also thought Chiriches had a pretty good game up until the time he had his nose smashed in for him. Shame it was one of our own that did it though, we could have had another free kick and upped Krul's save tally to EIGHTEEN for him. LOL
chrishove123
HGH....1 point. Playing within ourselves, 1 point.
Cider spurs
http://spursdreamer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/tripe-avb-load-what-of-a.html
Moscovite
Did City or Chelsea lose at home to Newcastle and West Ham, have these teams only scored 5 (inc 2 pens) frm 6 prem games this season? that could be why Chelsea or City dont want there manager sacked at this time. Im not saying AVB should be sacked, but we can hardly compare ourselves to City or Chelsea cos they lost a few games.
Ossie
Pretty much Cleveland ARTSPURS, same old story on this site. Correction: Although Ronaldo is down as 149th in successful dribbles per game, there are several players on the same number, so he isnt actually 149th, but he is still NOT ranked among the highest in Europe and the point still stands.
Guyver
Thanks for the link ChrisHove
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Logos8, we will soon find out re. what the top teams will do to us, our next 2 fixtures are Man City (A), followed by Man Utd (H), so we shall see.
Frank
1 point below Chelsea and 1 point above City....Of course we can compare ourselves to them.
MAN ON!
It is somewhat sad to see it acknowledged in the poll opposite, that our MOTM v Newcastle at HOME is our holding MFer Sandro.
Frank
Ok Man on, you do that!!, for me our problems are different to theirs so what their fans want should be different to want us want.
Ossie
if AVB cannot change his tactics (immediately) then I say change AVB
Cape Town Spurs
Cleveland That's OK no probs mate.
chrishove123
*our fans want...my bad
Ossie
It is clear that we need to change something at home to reverse the trend that Frank mentioned above. However, I am not so sure the changes need to be drastic and it is just tweaks to the existing formation that are needed. The way I see it, our inability to create largely stem from two issues. 1. Inverted wingers being too predictable and getting crowded out in a congested area of the pitch. 2. Playing 2 defensive MFs against inferior opposition leading to insufficient numbers supporting Soldado. If our wingers were instructed to vary their play and make for the byline, play in an early ball, look for the through ball etc as well as occasionally cutting inside it would make a big difference. I would also advocate playing Holtby/Pauli in the middle of the park in front of Sandro/Capoue and closer to Eriksen/Lamela with a licence to bomb on and support the striker. If AVB was too give the players the freedom to adopt such changes, I think our play and home results would really benefit.
whyteheart
frank....it's not just the fact Sandro was MOTM, the fact he only played a half should be the real eye opener.
Cider spurs
Cider spurs Very good point.
chrishove123
HGH magic agree. COYS!
James1
Said all along 1 out and out Dm is all that should be required at home, shore it up by all means if we take a lead, but we should be attacking more as opposed to worrying if we will concede. I'm not saying let's be all attack and nothing more. But is not attack the best form of defence?. Nobody as of yet has commented about the point i raise saying that we most probably had more possession in the 2nd half when we upped the tempo and attacked more. Why was this?. Is it because Newcastle had less time to steady the defence and react, allowing for us to quickly win ball back with pressing, and allow us to attack once more. repeating the cycle on numerous occasions. Quickt empo seemed to allow us more possession as opposed to the slow considered build up.
Cider spurs
banging on about crosses, ahem,...well Andros when you see that there are three players opposing you, lift your head and play the ball over the top to the other side so that the wing back, Jan or maybe Siggurdsson yesterday, can a chance at a decent volley. Keep finding open spaces like this and soon enough the opposing manger will have to react and you will get better chances. Trust me, it is faster to cross the ball than you personally running it to the other side with everybody in toe. Not singling you out.
Arky
Dear Mr. Eriksen when games do not go your way, please run back and defend so that you serve a purpose on the field. I am sure that you are capable of threading passes from own half.
Arky
Sigruddson, huff and puff, and get in the game.
Arky
Topho...Sorry, you are correct re. Chiriches, he got the blame when I should of shared it around! Actually I blame Paulinho .

A new striker.....no to Hernandez at UTD, we need a different one, perhaps a more 'bullish' one .. Benteke

AVB, try something new !!! COYS

ro6ertj
Guyver- lies damn lies and statistics....but if you are right and Ronaldo's role is different to Townsends, what is Townsends role? because it's not scoring goals nor does it seem to be assisting goals nor creating chances...if it is head down running then blasting over the bar he seems to be fulfilling his brief....45 shots...1 goal (and that was meant to be a cross)...there's another stat....;)
shedboy2
Cider would you consider Capoue over Sandro for that one position as DM? Capoue seems to have that little bit of extra flair with the ability to see a pass from deep? You can then have Townsend, Lamela and Eriksen with Ade and Soldado up front. So the formation would be 4-1-3-1-1 with Ade playing SS. COYS!
James1
I think there's a misconception that dembele and Pauli are DM's...they are supposed to playing deep as a double pivot not just breaking up play but covering for the marauding fullbacks and springing attacks...normally one in a pivot is an exceptional long passer but both or ours are short passers or in Dembele's case a dribbler...mix it up with a passer like capoue or Holtby and it'll work better....
shedboy2
Ossie - MAN ON states the obvious that you want to avoid. We are better off than City and 1 point of Chelsea who are the biggest spenders in the league, yet you choose to ignore that as different problem. If the season ends today who is the worst performing team from the 3 mentioned?
yiddyboy
James1...You are correct in the fact that Capoue is very good at passing and can assist with goals from deep. Taht said, if we are only to play one DM, then let's have it be the strongest in this position, that can only be Sandro at present. They could form a scary defensive MF if we had to hang on to a lead. It may just be that Capoue and Sandro could be the right balance in MF, i do not know how far forward Capoue is comfortable with venturing, if he is able it could work very well as a partnership. At present without knowing this, yet again i'm going to call for Holtby with Sandro as the most defensive i wish to see us. Paulinho gets forward, but i feel tempo wise Holtby will offer more from deep. As for Ade....Where is he?. Never any news, no injury updates, no return dates. Think he could've made all the difference yesterday with that amount off ball played into the box, all them hold ups and people to run of him. He wants to feel like "the one" current climate suggests the stage is well and truly set for an entrance. Strange, very strange.
Cider spurs
Shedboy2 you're right, Paulinho is a CM, a box to box player and Dembele is a AM who can also play as CM. If you want quick ball than Holtby is the man. He is no Modric but he is an excellent distributor of the ball who likes to play the simple ball, which is always the best ball. COYS!
James1
shed...Great minds and all that. ;-)
Cider spurs
shed...Great minds and all that. ;-)
Cider spurs
So great in fact it needed posting twice!!!!.
Cider spurs
great mind, fat fingers...;)
shedboy2
sseems so Cider...
shedboy2
shedboy, clearly Townsend's role differs to Ronaldo in that he is expected to dribble more from deeper positions, I don't think that can be disputed? You were saying his dribbling was excessive and unfairly compared him to a great player who doesnt dribble as often as you thought. I won't defend Townsends shooting statistics because, as ive said before, it's currently a huge flaw to his game, easily rectified by instructing him not to take so many low percentage shots. If he cannot follow a simple instruction, he should be dropped. Im looking at AVB here! Another statistic for you, contradicts what you've said about chance creation. Using the same source I assume you used for the shots and dribbling stats. Townsend has made more key passes than any player in the Spurs team this season (19) (Key Pass defined as the final pass leading to a shot at goal from a teammate) although when put into key passes per game averages he is 2nd only to Eriksen. We saw an example of some of Townsends key passes yesterday as he set up both Paulinho and Eriksen with a sitter. So if you insist on using statistics, I think that's a relevant one to go with ;)
Guyver
James1-yep Holtby or Capoue both work in the pivot and both offer good defensive cover....we could also play Pauli further up as he has the physicality and shot ....not quite a flat 3 but Capoue, Pauli and sandro...allows for an attacking three ahead...Kane, Soldado and lamela for instance...
shedboy2
Also noticed Paulinho flying under the rader while closing in on Townsends wastefulness in front of goal. Paulie has 36 shots and 1 goal, he's right up there when it comes to having a poor shot to goal ratio. Averaging 3.3 shots per game to Townsends 4.5.
Guyver
Yes, I think you have the chemistry right, for the Man.city trip. I.e....Capoue,Sandro....and Paulinho. Capoue has a eye for the longball to push and stretch back the opposition. Paulinho...dynamic in supporting front and Back, depending on who s in the ascendancy. Bit of pace, trickery and strength up front. Townsend, Soldado, Lamela.....for me. One big stumbling block......AVB........lose this one and we will Not be finishing in the top 4, this season.
82spursdebut
Very disappointed with Dembele. He's got great skills but keeps getting caught in possession..He's been sussed so has Townsend,Defoe and Lennon.. good players but not great players like Bale who petrified defences. He would have scored against Newcastle with sheer power and direction. All our shots were at the keeper.... hence he saved them and looked brilliant!Siggy is only a squad player and is not an "outside left".Yes we should have won but we are pretty impotent in and around the box. Goal difference is appalling. Two Mancs clubs will destroy us. So lets hope we are still mid table by Jan 2014.
wentworth
Guyver...Are these key passes resulting in shots inside or ouside of the box?, i bet most are outside of the box, is that really a "key pass". We all know Spurs are riding high in the shots at goal stats, but let's not be fooled, most are speculatives from way outside the box. Are these a result of key passes?.
Cider spurs
Cider spurs, I notice people only want to use context when the stats say something they don't like lol. But what you say is possibly true, I can't recall all chances created this season. The Newcastle game was recent so I can definitely remember the chances Townsend created in that match were in the box, despite Townsend not having the best of games and doing his usual shoot on sight trick.
Guyver
Still think it's quite interesting that more shots have come from a Townsend pass than any other Spurs player this season, whether the shots are outside the box or not.
Guyver
Guyver....I posted further up, like it or not most will have to admit that a few games this season Townsend has looked our biggest threat going forward. Some get annoyed with his shooting all the time, i must admit i do at times. As already stated if he could find the net or at least work the keeper a little more, i could see the benefits of continuing with giving him a starting berth, unfortunately threats with no substance will not score us goals and i do suggest alot of key passes are outside the box. Well documented out there that we have oodles of shots, but rarely frominside the box. Sunday was the best i've seen this season for chances created in true goalscoring positions. We just need to bottle whatever was said at half time, and turn it into 90 minutes. Along with a few goals i'd suggest. Townsend may just be the solution to the left side, only seen a 25 minute run out there this season tho'. AVB, he is a stubborn little fella at times, but heyho, he's the manager, he knows what he wants. Right or wrong, he's put his name to it.
Cider spurs
Guyver....you need to repeat that post on Townsend.....might dampen down the Andros Knockers !..lol
82spursdebut
Guyver....Another thing that highlights our struggles is the fact that Eriksen leads the average for key passes per game. Most would say he is vastly under achieving at present, yet leads the averages. This must point to how rubbish these chances must be, because all and sundry have talked of his lack of strength, poor passing and general lack of creativity. Either all are wrong or the key passes are a very loose term for what is considered key.
Cider spurs
Anyway, early start so i'll catch you all later!!. ;-)
Cider spurs
Adios Cider. COYS!
James1
Another interesting piece of data regarding shooting, this time from the game against Sherrif. REMEMBER TOWNSEND DID NOT PLAY IN THIS GAME. I'll stop shouting now, but wanted to make that point clear. We had a total of 19 shots with only 6 hitting the target(BBC stats), which translates as a 31.5% success rate, or less than 1 in 3 shots hit the target. These were shots from all areas including the two which resulted in the goals. Not very good, especially against so called weak opposition. Townsend is being lambasted week after week for his shooting, and although not exactly flawless, it appears that the data from the above game (it's only 1 example I know) would suggest that either 1) we are taking too many low % shots, 2) The whole team needs more practice or 3) Townsend isn't the only culprit. Guyver mentioned Paulinho in his comment above, and his shooting stats. In the Sherriff game Pauli had 2 shots ballooned over the bar from inside the area. He is the guy you want finishing, think YaYa Toure. IMO the shooting needs to improve from everyone.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Got to say it......Who the Phuck is Coys !?
82spursdebut
I love it....when a bit of Stat' supports what you are seeing.
82spursdebut
Cider spurs, if the key pass stat is such a loose term, Townsend is artificially boosting everyone else's key pass stats by shooting every time he touches the ball. I think we'd all agree we havent created great chances this season, but of the chances that are created, Townsend & Walker seem to be the catalyst. There's not much being created from the left, neither good chances or bad. Every game we've played shows we attack down our right more than anywhere else, so it isnt surprising that Townsend is the highest key passer. The problem is tactical, not just individual players.
Guyver
Tactical and Not well Balanced.
82spursdebut
speed is of the essence.....Walker, Townsend, Lennon, plus....are all currently right sided players.
82spursdebut
I just went through our shots stats for all the Euro and Carling cup games which didn't feature Townsend. In the Hull game we had a deplorable 3 shots on target from 24. That's a 12.5% success rate. Wow. When you however, take the mean shot success percentage from the cup games not featuring Townsend it is calculated to be approx 43%. So it's still less than 1 in 2 on target. Interesting stuff, I don't really do stats and the sample selection is small, but to say all our problems with shooting are because of Townsend is not fair in my opinion.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
82spursdebut you serious lol. COYS!
James1
I know he/she/it..... is on many shirts and so on........but who is it ?......and why write your post / words.....and then put someone elses' name after your words !?
82spursdebut
COME ON YOU SPURS!
James1
Townsend can do better with his shots......and can do better with freekicks and corners......but he looks Knackered to me, poor lad. Been a eventful period this last year,for him....we need to give him a break. Hope he gets it with the current England friendlies squad.
82spursdebut
Yeah but spurs isn't a person...James1......I like it though...lol
82spursdebut
Cheers 82spursdebut ;) Btw I'm not the only one who adds COYS on here ;) COYS!
James1
Just for balance. I worked out the %mean for shot success rate in the prem games where Townsend played at least 80 minutes, which came to approx 33%. Exactly 1 in 3. So as the stats stand, we are performing 10% better in our shooting without Townsend than with. Although that's not saying much. The encouraging thing is we are believe it or not improving. After 4 games the mean shot success rate was approx 24%, less than 1 in 4 shots registered on target.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
No No...james1.....wasn't getting just at you or anyone else. I realise many do it......that's everyones perogative. But does still not quite make sense to me.
82spursdebut
Those %'s went up, largely due to yesterdays 2nd half performance. Fact is....when we are Bold and Brave and play with intent, fire and thrust......almost care free.................we are so much better. Thus with such a good goalkeeper (lloris)...and world class defenders.......we should be Thrusting from the starting whistle. Imho
82spursdebut
topho I get the impression you didnt fully understand my post, wouldnt be the 1st time. Do you actually think I literally believe Townsend shoots every time he touches the ball despite me posting he tops the key pass stat in the very same post? Read my posts again and what they were in response to. Townsends shooting on sight is easy to rectify if you spot the problem, hence I said in my post (again read it!) "AVB im looking at you here" ie AVB notice the problem and fix it.
Guyver
snap...
82spursdebut
And shooting every time he touches the ball (literally) is different from taking too many low % shots and having a poor shot/goal ratio before you misrepresent my last post.
Guyver
Hahaha I see your point 82spursdebut. It doesn't make sense you're right lol. Out of habbit I guess ;) COYS!
James1
Guyver- you may not be aware but I rarely use stats...you can see my posts with Peter on that, i prefer to use my eyes...but with townsend the stats are all there to confirm that he isn't a team player....yes pauli has been wasteful too (he'd need to get c35% more wasteful to catch andros though ) but he doesn't perform the same role as Townsend (he's a DM isn't he? (tongue firmly in cheek) rather than a forward)...I don't want to be too hard on Andros...as I've said before he has potential but you seem to have to crack a nut with a sledgehammer on here for people to actually take notice of what is going on right in front of their eyes....rather than believe the the BS hype that townsend is some phenom and our key weapon he is actually wasting opportunity after opportunity, not passing to our main striker, not scoring himself, losing possession and not tracking back!...I said when he was first selected he'd cost us more goals than he creates with his poor decision making -the first couple of games I was warming up the humble pie but then a return to form....I'm hoping to come on here in 4 mths time and say wow i got that wrong....but imo it's time to give the proven lennon and or a real Phenom the chance to prove himself....Andros direct running was refreshing but he needs to round his game, he can prove himself in the cups there are plenty of games coming up...we have better options.
shedboy2
shedboy2, I agree with most of what you say, as I mentioned above, he has his flaws, but rather than dropping him, I'd still try Townsend on the left over any of the other currently available candidates. Added bonus could be the reduction of low % shots. Ive criticised him in the past, possibly even more so than you, but against Newcastle I felt he was unfairly scapegoated (didnt notice many buying into the phenom hype there!), when not only did he create 2 of our better chances, but there were players who did far worse and were given a pass. Dropping him imo is a simplistic change that doesnt actually solve the overriding problem of scoring goals. Our struggles in games against much weaker opposition where Townsend isnt playing proves that I think. Re Paulinho's poor shot/goal ratio, it's relevant if his role is to be a goal scoring box2box midfielder. He still has more shots this season than Rooney and Van Persie. The "his role is different to Townsend" line, doesnt wash if he like Townsend is essentially passing up good goal scoring opportunities.
Guyver
I have no idea topho. When you look at the number of low % shots Townsend attempts and his lack of goals, advising him to look for the pass more often seems an obvious suggestion and a simple adjustment to make. But I guess at one point, "Bale plays on the left" was an obvious solution to Bale struggling on the right, before he became truly world class. Ultimately all AVB has to do is keep winning games.
Guyver
It's so bloody glaringly obvious what AVB needs to do. He needs to get humble, bow down and take heed. Take heed of us, the experts,the clever dicks, the know it alls, before it's all to late......After all, it is quite simple. All you have to do guys is run around bit and see what happens....It's only football, not bloody rocket science, you one-footed numbskulls! Me, myself, I'm gutted. I was turned down for the job. They said yes, you seem to know what your talking about but, to be honest son, you're over qualified. I said, fair enough....Up yours and up the Spurs! No argument really.....
MAN ON!
.....Mind you there's still the Palace job up for grabs.....It's between me, Chrissie hughton and Martin Jol......Wish me luck.
MAN ON!
Guyver/topho...As mentioned...I am honest enough to agree that Townsend has at times been our biggest threat in matches, and yes, he is not the only one to be guilty of poor finishing. I feel he comes in for a lot of stick as of late because of the amount of shots he takes on with no end result, thus meaning he places himself rightly or wrongly in the spotlight for his lack of end product.

Townsend is not the only one guilty of poor shooting, Paulinho seems very adept at weekly sat nav trips to row Z with the ball via shooting. Good points as to maybe why Townsend is recieving so much flak, namely because so much is dependant on our Right. You could argue that at least Townsend is giving it a go. I would agree to an extent, problem being for all the effort not much has resulted in way of goals or assists. However, this can be laid at the feet of others also. This therefore highlights the need of a change of team personnel in certain positions and or maybe a change of tactics. Now that is something i feel many agree with on here, let's give it a go as a minimum requirement at least.
Cider spurs
Guyver- fair enough IF he can do a job on the left...he needs more goals in his locker as well as assists. As for others having a poor game imo Gylfi and our left has been done to death, Dembele and walker get stick all the time, Brad is shot and everyone knows it, kind of narrows the field....;)tops mate...I got the sledgehammer out for you...;) MAN ON! - you won't get a top job, the fifa pro licence has ensured it's jobs for the boys, doesn't matter how good a manager you are...then again is it management or coaching you want to follow?...;)
shedboy2
As for Dembele....I'm guessing talk of his unhappiness is twisted media guff. However, his comments relating to AVB and his benchwarming exploits make for a true reflection on how we really are setting up..." I cannot be satisfied with it,of course,i just want to play as many games. The coach explained that he makes a tactical choice, he wants more defensive players in midfield". So there we have it, Defence at all costs, maybe the quote is taken out of context, maybe Moose was placed in CM and did not perform so was and has been replaced by those more capable in the role. If we witness many more performances like Sunday's, he may well find himself down the pecking order. Plethora of MFers granted but i do wish we had bid for Ivan Rakitic. CM, plenty of goals and assists, and what i'd cosider a true CM as opposed to the all to often playing of wrong players in the deeper roles. Compared to his National team mate Modric and only behind World class stars such as Andres Iniesta, Lionel Messi, Mesut Ozil, Cesc Fabregas, Karim Benzema and Cristiano Ronaldo who managed more assists than Rakitic in the Spanish league last term. All guess work admitted, but this player may just be the the link from back to front we appear to be missing at times.
Cider spurs
Cider spurs, top post. There does need to be changes because we can't keep struggling to create quality chances and expect to progress. 7 +2 new players is a factor, but the complete lack of anything from the left and lack of balance is a tactical issue imo.

lol shedboy2, I didnt know players had to take turns when it comes to being criticised. I prefer to rate a player's match performance on a game by game basis, eliminating any personal biases on the way, (if possible). Definitely don't see the point in scapegoating or the disproportionate blame game!
Guyver
HGV - All you can bang on about is AVB and previous. He was only there at the chavs for 5 minutes while he has been doing well here for over a season and a half. Get over it. As for his high line, shows what you know because defensively our records are up there with the best in Europe and PL. YES we have areas we need to address, our pace of attack and conversion of chances will come. Calling our Summer signing a dud - your entitled to your opinion but saying miss treatment of Ade and Ekotto shows you donít know what the hell you are talking about. This is a Spurs discussion board, your here to moan about the moaners for some reason so who is sadder?? Rest my case. DO one. COYS.
SpursOne2
What we need as a team is for each individual to realize their own primary function. Once this is done then the rest will fall into place. Anybody shooting from 30 yards is not fulfilling their individual function within the team, whether that be Townsend, Soldado or Vertonghen. Long range shooting comes from individual ego's and/or impatience. With the formation that we generally play the ball should be moved around the pitch, retaining possession and the movement from the forward players should create the opportunity of either a killer pass to them to create the goal scoring opportunity or to create the space for the player with the ball to run into. As neither of these actions are occurring the individual who has the ball doesn't see anything on so just shoots. Or grants possession back to the opposition. Anyone who doesn't understand the % of scoring the further out you are will always decrease is just plain dumb. Anyone trying to score the "Hollywood" goal, to quote Mr Lawrenson is not fulfilling their role within the team.

The style of football we are trying to emulate is that of Barcalona, and lets be honest our creative players are not a patch on theirs and they also have Messi. However, the style of play is the same. Take Messi out of the equation as he is unique, do you see Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Sanchez etc, etc.... all constantly shooting from distance????
yiddyboy
Guyver- I'm sure you noticed the smiley...imo Townsend had a shocker to compound his ineffectual season but he has so many cheerleaders that it takes blunt force to try and ram the message home....he's a forward who doesn't score and doesn't assist...we can't score from open play -our CF doesn't get the ball...townsend has it all the time and has taken nearly twice as many shots as our 'main' striker and other forward...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there is something wrong. Tops-convince England? you mean the avg fan who knows f all about football or Spurs?...who think because a pot shot went in Townsend is a superstar?....if he keeps the same stats for England as he does for us they'll be burning effigies and if he doesn't pass to rooney like he doesn't to soldado he'll end up with a right hook!
shedboy2
Shocker? you are exaggerating. Heres the highlights, he was involved in every good opportunity we had.
Guyver
http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2013/11/10/tottenham-vs-newcastle-0-1-highlights-2013-remy-goal-krul-video/
Guyver
 

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