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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

Reasons to be Cheerful!

Sunday's result was disappointing, and as has been pointed out on this site, every time Spurs have the opportunity to jump into the top three, something goes awry.

However, there are reasons to think this could yet be a season to remember - as long as AVB gets some decisions right in the next few weeks. Although I hate losing the game before the international break, it may give our boss the time he needs to rectify a few issues, and see some crucial players make welcome returns before the Manchester City game.

The loss of Danny Rose cannot be underestimated. We have been missing so much balance to the side without him. He provides natural width going forward, and his loss has meant a move out wide for our best centre back Vertonghen. Despite him performing admirably, moving your best player into their second best position is obviously detrimental to the team.

The break will also mean Etienne Capoue will be able to work on his fitness, and I believe he is a vital component in the two games we face against the Manchester clubs. Both teams like to pack midfield - City with Toure, Fernandinho and Milner, United with two in the middle but Rooney dropping off. It is vital we match them and for me Capoue has to start alongside Sandro and one other.

I hope AVB is able to look at his attacking options, as only a blind man could fail to see glaring issues. I understand inverted wingers, but they are not being utilised in the right way. Cutting inside is all well and good, but if you do it every time, it becomes easier to defend against than a winger who always goes on the outside. All that happens is the opposition dedicate one midfielder to come across and block the inside channel. In Newcastle's case it was Cabaye.

The winger must be able to go on the outside as well, rendering the opposition midfielder ineffective. The player who can do both is Lamela, as shown is brief cameos against Arsenal and Cardiff, and in various cup games.

I would keep Townsend and play him initially on the left, although both could swap. AVB must look closely at certain players who haven't performed to their best this season. Dembele (who I have never really taken to) needs a rest to be able to find his best form, and while I like Paulinho's drive and momentum, he must be knackered, and will be more so after international duty. Eriksen has yet to hit any kind of form. These are great players, and form is only temporary, while their class should be permanent.

The depth of our squad can afford these guys, all of whom will be on international duty, a break. Then we come to Emmanuel Adebayor. He must be welcomed back to the fold. No club can compete with just two strikers, whether you are going for the league or trying to stay up. It is a glaring error.

Not only that, but Ade is exactly the player we need right now. Big and strong, and bringing others into play. Somebody like Holtby would love to play with him. I like Soldado, he is a clever player, and I like Defoe too, but we must be able to go two up top sometimes, and to make that unpredictable we need at least three strikers.

Spurs fans must remember that despite some big issues we are five points off top and one point of Champions League. Same record as United. Second best defence in the league. Our points tally so far equates to 69 points at the end of the season. We are a bit short, but what did you honestly expect? We should have beaten Arsenal and Newcastle, and probably Chelsea. We are playing well, and had we beaten Arsenal we'd be joint top. I won't go off on one if we lose to City or United - or even both. We must stay patient.

Last season was the same, and there were calls for AVB to go after we conceded two late goals against Everton. We then went on a hot streak right through until the end of February. I can see it happening again. Lamela, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Lloris, Paulinho, Sandro - they would get in any team in the world. Remember that and get behind your team and manager.

Written by Sebastian Short




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The journalist

Writer: Sebastian Short Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday November 12 2013

Time: 7:56AM

Your Comments

Good, positive article, Sebastian, with some well made points. As I've said before, Capoue and Sandro would be awesome in the middle ... with Paulinho? Lamela and Chadli on the wings would also work for me ... unless Townsend is prepared to stay mainly on the wing and play for the team! It's the 'ifs' and 'buts' that make it all so interesting ... and frustrating! We all complain (and rightly) about our goal average but City are a point behind us and look at their average It's a funny old game!
Geofspurs
Needs to read a positive article after our understandably bitter last cuple of days. Everything you say is absolutely true, and thing is as well is critics and fans of other teams know it too. The squad is there, the talent is there, currently however the tactics are not -- Having said that our inverted wingers have the potential to work against City if we sit off them and hit them on the counter? They are expected to have the ball, they are far better home than they are away, and Sandro & Capoue could be excellent at breaking up play.
oi.you.there
* Nice * to read a positive article (too early for this!)
oi.you.there
Can't wait for Danny Rose to return, I just hope he can hit the ground running. He hasnt fully established himself yet and a few dodgy performances could get the fans on his back.
Guyver
A good read thanks Seb, some of us are always cheerful but a select few seem to think they actually own the club and can apply hatred and fury and "childish" remarks on every article...
Mix26
trollpho can u get ur 'inside' man to have a word with Townsend? He needs to pass a little more...
Mix26
Nice article Sebastian. The calls for AVB's head were only as a result of frustration and disappointment - in the cold light of two days later we all realise that. But, he is making doubters of many who have openly backed him with some inexplicable decisions. Resting Sandro midweek and not starting him on Sunday as well as persisting with Siggy on the left when there are other options available to try are two of the obvious ones.
Durbanspur
Mix26 ... Keep that positivity going, mate!
Geofspurs
cant wait for ade to come back in the team will do far more to help the midfilders to get in the game more and help sodado too if we play to up top
stephenspurs1210
Geof it is a funny old game and one which Spurs fans in the last 10 years you would think would be kinda accustomed to. I love Spurs and would never write such serious hatred about my club, team or manager. I can understand frustration but there is no excuse for supporters who are short sighted and impatient. There is no date that can be associated to when where and how this team and manager get things really flowing but there are more signs of steady progress. I have all the time in the world for Spurs and rest assured we will be rewarded. By the way may I just add Seb that our fantastic cup run is not to be forgotten either.
Mix26
Ade should have played against the toon if only for a bit of match fitness before going to City, if he starts I can see some calling for his head again because he won't be given another chance by the fickle on here! It won't happen anyway because there is some rift between him and AVB that won't go away, pathetic managment IMO. Although Daws is Spurs through and through, he is not quick enough to play the high defensive line. Subject to Rose being back and obviousne fitness issues, Kaboul and Verts to start in CB with Walker right at right back. Kaboul changed the defensive game Sunday. The middle of the park is a little more of a challenge of choice but I agree with Sandro an Capoue, with Paulinio Townsend and Lamela with Ade as the front man. I just have a nagging feeling I have just wasted 20 mins of my life writing this because AVB will stubbornly just pick the same team. Right now I will take 2 draws from the next 2 games. My prediction is we will finish 7th or 8th in the league and win nothing else, but I hope I'm wrong. What will be will be the only little thing I can do is get behind my beloved Spurs and cheer then on in the terraces until the day I die COYS!!!
Supayid
Supa pot calling the kettle black?
Mix26
We had an abuse free day without you yesterday, Mix26. Now I see that you're trying to be provocative again to Topho, who I hope will not rise to it and the VS authorities take note.
love totty
The thing we must not do is cling onto excuses. We lost 3 games after Europa ties. We lost before each international break. We have injuries, but so do everyone else. Look who is top - they have more injuries than we do - and a lighter squad. I don't really care about missing out on moving to top 3... I care about getting performances right - especially at home, and hitting the back of the net frequently. Townsend was catered for by Newcastle. He was doubled up so that one defender ushered him wide onto his wrong foot - urging him to try and cross. The other defender ushered him inside but blocking any opportunity to shoot, and ultimately Townsend overruns the ball and loses it. Townsend was nullified, yet we do nothing about it. We do not switch him to the other side - which Newcastle probably hadn't planned so much for. The most disappointing thing is that we do not respond to the problems, we just continue as we are. We have scored zero open play goals in 3 games - including 2 home games against bottom half teams. There should be a response to try and get goals - even if it means shipping 1 or 2 in the process.
TonyRich
Thanks for the article. A very good read mate. I'm with you on that Geofspurs. Capoue and Sandro paired in the middle looks a mouth watering prospect. Both players look to play the simple ball but we know Capoue has the ability to find a defence splitting pass from deep. I want Townsend to play but on the left and allow Lamela on the right. With Lamela he is unpredictable. The games I've seen him play is not just about running at pace with quick feet. He looks for a pass and he runs into space to retrieve it. He reads the game very well and seems to know when to hold on to the ball and when to release it. He obviously picked up good habbits from the master in Totti. These breaks will work in our favour. COYS!
James1
One thing we certainly need is more pairings. Dembele and Paulinho didnt compliment each other at all. Townsend seems to be trying most things on his own rather than working with Walker like he did for England, and Soldado is a man totally on his own. I think Sandro is easily good enough to play a holding role on his own. We could play a 4-1-4-1, give the other two midfielders more attacking freedom and play wingers on the correct side.
oi.you.there
Not sure why people are calling for Ade he was rubbish last year playing in the same system. He MIGHT bring slightly more to the team performance in terms of holding up the ball etc, but hes going to what? lay it off for our midfielders to shoot from distance something which we are already doing.
coys1717
Vertonghen, is our best centre back, which is why AVB plays him at left back! Dawson is the weakest of the 4 active centre backs we have, which is why he is AVB'S first choice centre back and team captain! Benny should have been kept as back up to Rose, which is why he was sent to QPR! Club record signing, the Argentinian full international Eric Lamela who is a much higher level footballer than both Siggi and Townsend gets dropped after playing his best ever game for Tottenham! Ade is a good alternative up front to both Soldado and Defoe which is why he does not even make the bench! Sandro has shown us he has the potential to become the new Dave Mackay, the best holding midfielder at the club, which is why he is being used by AVB as no more than a rotating bench player! Brad Friedel who's contract ended last summer should have been released, which is why AVB gave him a new one year contract and played him on Sunday, which lost us the match! Gomes is the obvious back up to Lloris, which is why he cant get near the first team! I won't go on and bore you anymore, because everything is working absolutely wonderfully...
pelebro
Tony- completely agree, may I suggest this is down to stubborn/bad management? Or is AVB just frightened to Change things because he might upset one or another individual? The result and performance are all that count, we would except the odd defeat if we had played well and AVB had tried positive changes that maybe didn't work. For example Lamela has played as CF effectively should we do a 'Gareth Bale' on him and give him a couple of games up front? As I have predicted the league finish based on a mass change to our squad but if you look at our results truthfully we flatter to deceive. We need this season or at least the first half of it to reform, consolidate and find our best 11. Home and away tactics should be different I.e. 2 dmf away rather than same old, same old! Changes made Sunday changed the game I believe for the better, this is simple management with no rocket science required! The jigsaw just needs a few pieces moving to make it compleat, IMO AVB is the man to do it he just needs to change his ways COYS!!
Supayid
Sandro and Capoue are both defensive Midfielders but, like Paulinho, they will both drive forward if the space opens up in front of them ... and they are both strong and dynamic when pushing forward. As long as they cover each other I feel this could lead to goals, directly or indirectly. Tony ... the main thing I would take up with AVB is the way he uses the bench ... often too late and, sometimes, the wrong choice, imo! I am a lot happier after a win than when we lose ... but we all have to deal with that and there is always the next game!
Geofspurs
Defo reasons to be cheerful. December is a big month. We need to be still in the hunt in the league, on the verge of wembley and seeded for last 32 of the euro league. A lot of games to be played. Weve got great strength in depth so that could be crucial over the busy period.
StillRickyVilla
I cannot understand how Sandro can be left on the bench when fit. Paulhinio puklled out of a 50 50 which gave Remy his goal, sandro, or capoue would never ever have let remy win the ball there. I am getting *****ed off with Townsend playing on the right, he thinks he is the new Bale but is is a shadow of Gareth, so please stop the pointless shooting. Siggy is not a left winger no way never no more. Erikson has not really shone but one can see he will be a great player and along with lamwella needs to play regularly. I would like to see Capoue and Sandro in teh middle with Chadli/townsend on the let Lamella/Lennon (lets not forget what a great player he has been over the eyars and still is IMO) on the right. Erikson as number 10, We can rotate Paulhinio with Capoue or Sandro for home games and easier games. But Djembele NO, Siggy NO, Andros right wing NO.
johna
Darkenvai, good post. Ive not seen anything unexpected yet. We are still right up there despite the ridiculous level of upheaval caused by the bale sale. If we had put 3 or 4 past newcastle (like on any other day we should have done) this site would be awash with 'we gonna win the league claims'! And 'what goal-scoring crisis!?'. Everyone just needs to calm down. Its football, there are ups and downs just like at all the clubs.Just ask city and chelsea fans after this weekend.
StillRickyVilla
Coys1717- the reason for calling for Ade is he is another option at CF as apposed to Soldado, who has done exactly what? Defoe could do the job but needs a feeder like Ade, maybe this is Soldado's issue? Or maybe try Lemela there as I have already said? I think our point is something needs to change in the goal scoring dept because at the moment it's just not happening mate.
Supayid
I like to look at the positives and have defended AVB resolutely, which wasn't difficult because of the positive results. I was unable to watch the whole game live, but watched a recording. Following the successful first half against Everton, I was expecting a similar set up. The loss of Sandro and Lennon in that game diminished us. So I was surprised that having seen how the deployment of a proper winger (Lennon) allowed Verts to give a MOM performance at LB, we reverted to a non winger Siggy who just gets in the way. The stats show he had an appalling game against Newc.
Secondly, the absence of Lamela baffled me. Here was a young man who had given a MOM performance, whose confidence visibly grew in the match against Sheriff, put back in his box. Picking Lamela was a no loss situation. If he gave a performance anywhere near the Sheriff game we would have won and put another piece of the jig-saw in place ready for ManC. If Lamela had played badly, we had 2 weeks to restore his confidence. AVB knew he had lost Lloris, what a downer for the fans. The perfect antidote was play Lamela...it would have given the crowd a perfect lift.
A Very Bad team selection Sunday. We don't know what to expect next. Holtby dropped after 3 good games. Sandro benched when we have not lost in the last 15 PL games he started. No winger on the left when Lennon and Lamela were available.
Now we are hanging our hats on Capoue and Sandro as a pairing. Please remember they have shared minutes together on the pitch. Not AVBs fault, but just bear that in mind.
Sorry its negative, but I'm still seething!
jacobslad
reasons to be cheerful...bar a LB we have some wonderful defenders and a great GK...we have so many riches in CM that people can throw away Pauli and Dembele from team selections both players that would get games for the highest of teams....reasons to be fearful...no left side and we're toothless up front...but let's be positive and hope lamela gets a chance and settles and that Ade (yep pinning our pre-january hopes on Ade!) can come in and give us options up top....last year he had to run the channels for Bale this year he can stay central...
shedboy2
Can people see the bigger picture and is it positive? Will Spurs be successful this season or in the near future? By success I mean winning cups, earning qualification to the elite competition. How long has AVB got to achieve success, one season or more?
SpursOne2
Sticky- I agree with what you say, except we do have a bit of a goal crisis mate. Chelsea and City have a problem in odd games so their fans would agree it they had a down day however. We have a problem. I'm always calm and except the team needs time therefore my expectations have been adjusted accordingly. I however can only deal in facts and what I have seen on the pitch. This is a forum and some do get excited that's up to them surly? Nothing we say on here will be listened to by anyone other than other fans, it just opinions that everybody is entitled to.
Supayid
Loads to be cheerful about, exciting new talent like Chiriches, Capoue, Lamela, Paulinho, Eriksen, Soldaldo All could fit into the top teams imo. All are still developing in this side and improving. Also we have qualified for the next round of the EL and Get to play Manchester United in a few weeks. Cannot wait to get back to the lane with the WHL faithful and cheer the team on. COYS.
SpursOne2
Darkenvai spot on. I can't remember how many times this has been said this season. COYS!
James1
Darkenvai- spot on mate very well said!
Supayid
Darkenvai, absolutely. My only negative about AVB reign is that some fans have never bought into it and cant wait to stick the boot in at the smallest hint of failure. Unfortunately that negativity has transmitted to the players in some instances which is not helpful. Seems to be a constant battle for ABV to win over the fans - u wonder at what point he will just say "I dont need this" and take the next offer from a PSG or whoever. Wouldnt blame him. Then we are back to square one. U have to laugh!
StillRickyVilla
Soldado hasn't done anything yet because we haven't been playing to his strengths, Soldado is the final boot before the back of the net, he's a poacher. The whole set up is designed to feed him which we simply haven't been doing, You bring Ade in, yeah he can bring other people into play, gives us the easy long ball option, target man but for who? lay it off for Townsend or Siggy to shoot from 25 yards, if he's won the ball near the oppositions corner flag, whats he supposed to do with it? Soldado was brought to sit in the box and finish chances, Ade gives us other options but not any that would benefit the team playing in its current formation , style whatever we're calling it.
coys1717
Dark - the only two new players who have had any significant PL time are Soldado and Paulinho. Lamela, Chadli, Capoue, Chiriches and Eriksen have hardly been played. Townsend and to a lesser extent Rose were positive additions who were already blooded. They are all excellent players in their own right who don't need patronising, they just need organising and motivating within a team structure that suits their skills. I wonder if you would be so patient if it was your 100m spent.
Love totty
Yes SRV, let's blame the fans who do the paying and not those who get paid. You certainly do have to laugh, but it's hollow.
Love totty
Sebastian Short......... good article, there are lots of things to be positive about with this squad.. Just that AVB seems to be struggling to find the right players for the right positions at the right time. IMHO He needs to find his best team 11 and then start rotating from there Darkenvai ... Dembele is making noises about not playing enough. Regarding Mr Adebayor and his re-integration into the team, I think that he has acted really badly and selfishly throughout his time at THFC. ON loan he played really well and got his contract then he did not commit himself to the manager, team or the club. As far as I'm concerned he can go and do a big one. I've had enough of him and who's to say he will be the original if he gets back into the 11. HE'S GOT HIS CONTRACT AND HE'LL SEE IT OUT. Money for nothing.. and the chicks for free! Jacobslad .... How many people on here have been shouting out for rotation of the squad to make sure there's no burn out later in the season. As we did with HR. Sandro, Capoue, Dembele and Lennon have all been out injured or whatever and we know AVB likes to bring injured players back slowly. Paulinho has played nearly every game as far as I can remember. I can agree with you about Sandro and Lennon should have started in the Newcy game but they had been injured so he didn't play them. I can't imagine why Lamela didn't start after his game against Sherriff unless AVB thought he played nearly the 90 minutes so won't start him Sunday. If that was the case then why not bring him on as sub?
longtimespur
SpursOne2..you ask can people see the bigger picture and is it positive? Yes, I think it is. The competition for Top4 will be difficult but it will remain close to the end IMO. This time last year after 11 games ManU were top on 27 points and Arsenal were 8th on 16 points. A spread of 11 points. This year its a spread of 6 points from arsenal to ManC. Consistency is the key and taking points regularly of the lesser teams. Squad strength will also come into it, and we are well placed. The expectations of all top 8 teams are high, so as ever some will be disappointed. Fortunately our setbacks are part of the norm for other teams. Although we drew with Chelsea and Everton, last year we lost. Although we gained only one point in each game, we denied them the 3 they got last year. On such fine margins will the final table depend.
jacobslad
When you think about it, it's certainly not all bad. No team has really outplayed us over 90 minutes this season. The first half against Everton and the second half against Newcastle was an awesome display ... just what I was looking for, anyway. No goals but they have to come if we keep that kind of pressure and possession up on a regular basis. Consistency!
Geofspurs
I would disagree, not about his abilities but dont think he would add more goals or even serve up more goals to the team, put him with Soldado that may be a different story, the options we need are changing the formation behind the striker(s) to allow them to do there job. We were using a similar system last season our strikers did nothing at the time we were all blaming them, now we realise its the system we play.
coys1717
Bit worrying if you think Danny Rose will kick start our season.Vertonghen has looked better down the left than Rose and yet we still can't buy a goal.The crucial names are Ade & Lamela,these two can solve the problem,because they are skillful,inventive,can shoot,hold the ball,dribble, and most important can do something different which always scares packed defences.
Greavesaboveall
coys1717, at the end of last season Ade looked very good playing in this current system.
Guyver
And that was with Dempsey and Parker.
Guyver
People under estimated Dempsey, he was a decent player for us.
coys1717
Lovetotty - from what I can see we have the most motivated and hard-working manager we have perhaps have ever had and a team spirit evident amongst the players which ive rarely witnessed. We have a chairman who at last seems to have a plan and the wonderful new stadium on its way. The away fans are absolutely awesome perhaps the best in the league. But yes, we have a significant minority at WHL that need to step up. Apart from that all I see is positives on spurs future. Its great times. People are just too caught up in their petty agendas to notice. When times are not so good when we are mid-table and europe is just a pipe-dream I wonder how many of the moaners will be looking back at this time with fondness (whilst moaning about being mid-table and not in europe!).
StillRickyVilla
Well said SRV!
Geofspurs
Good stuff SRV! COYS!
James1
Once again darkenvai nicely put. I think a lot of it is just out and out frustration and impatience for us to do well. Which I do understand to a degree - but some i think just need to get real with their expectations.
StillRickyVilla
Soldado is going to get all the blame for our lack of goals, the system AVB plays is going to come in for a slagging ''to defensive'' AVB will be told on Vital Spurs ''your player selection is all wrong'' the wolfs are at the door, those poor little pigs are going to get a battering, but the problem for our lack of goals comes down to the squad all in one basket, that's the problem, far to many players to list on stats, appearances for spurs and previous clubs, even internationals if you wish to take that on board, then look up the players we have number of goals to apps each has scored, who currently walks out for us to do battle, take into consideration assists, not picking on this player example only, you can look up any player and find, we don't have goal scorers across the pitch, when we signed Dembele from Fulham after the season of 2011-2012 apps 45 he had scored 2 goals for Fulham, his first appearance for us he scored 50% of last seasons total, in season 2012-2013 he had 41 apps, 2 goals, your be lucky if when Lennon starts his going to score, he might get one in 10 games, our problem is players who just can't score or do not get into the penalty area enough, but then to score you need the ball, Krul maybe a ''one off'' when he saved and the ball bounced loose 3 spurs players to one toon defender and still they managed to clear it, had that been Terry, Cahill and Torres attacking that ball the keeper , defender and the ball would have finished up in the back of the net. When the side is selected, who is going to score, we have had 3 clean sheets in a row, no goals vs wet spam, everton, newcastle, hull we struggled how did that goal come about? Something has to happen soon, possesion is one thing, but please start turning it into goals or we are going to be in the shi7, I hope not, but football can turn very quicky on us.
spu 4 life
Coys1717- I agree with the system comment to some degree, but Ade was left to play second fiddle to Bale and not as CF. He is a CF not a number 10 or winger. The season before last as CF he scored 17 and made 8 assists. His attitude stinks some times maybe even most of the time. All I am saying is at the moment he is another option not our saviour. Maybe he could light Soldado' fire if they played together, maybe he could hold the ball up to bring our more attacking MF's into play. One thing I do know is something needs to change cos what we got ain't working. Ade is better in the air and defensively than we are playing come January I think he will be gone and we will probably spend 25 mill+ on another striker when we just may have what we need playing in the under 18's. It won't hurt to give him a try before Xmas for 5 or 6 games what would we lose? His time in the reserves just may have taught him a lesson about attitude and work rate.
Supayid
Vital six weeks coming up for both our clubs by the end of which we should be able to answer whether The Arse and AVB are the real thing or not? I think for you lot the biggest problem is that none of your attacking players look to possess a real goal threat. Playing the 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1 either way 1 central striker supported by 2 winger/forwards) you need to have goals coming from both wide men and at least one (ideally two) of your central 3. Spurs issue is that Lennon and Townsend don't offer anything and that playing 2 def mid type players in the middle (any two of Cap, Sandro, Paul) or even Demble, who lets face it never scores, means that there is simply not enough goal threat in the team. AVB has to drop one or both of Lennon an only play with one Def-Mid and allow the other 2 midfielders to move forward. Arsenal played with 2 def-mids in the first half against United and were crap, took one off and suddenly they looked a far better (but still poor) team. Does AVB have the balls to go for broke? His record and style of play at Chelsea and Spurs would suggest that he adopts the safety first approach which wont be enough for the top 4.
Galway Gooner
srv- hardly optimistic to be predicting us mid table and looking back on this period (of no top4 under AVB) as a high point...they may just look a little further back ...;)
shedboy2
Topho, so thats ur opinion, fine. But in whose opinion do we trust? Someone who has absolute knowledge of all the players every single day on the training pitch, in the dressing room, their motivation levels, personalities, fitness levels. Has at his disposal complete indepth analysis of our opponents. Someone who has worked with and learnt from, for many many years, the best manager in the world. Someone who has already won championships and european titles. And someone who has the complete backing of the players and the chairman who know him 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. Or do we trust the likes of u? And lets be honest, are a few gimps on a keyboard, who like me, are pretty clueless at the end of the day. Lets just get behind the manager and see what happens.
StillRickyVilla
LT thanks for the encouragement. Again what was wrong with my post? I ask for inside information? He apparently has a manon the inside lol...It's certainly not my fault a LOT of posters think he is a joke. In fact only the prime minister has a few more "fans"... Now the moderators have told him to pipe down doesn't change his typical AVB slating. He just chooses alt words...
Mix26
If the last decade has taught us anything that we didn't already know, it is that money buys football success and I for have often deplored the vanity purchases of clubs by foreign billionaires and the inflationary efffect that its had on the game. The windfall that was Gareth Bale and the astuteness of our board has unexpectedly given us the opportunity to compete with these pariah clubs and I'm phucked if I'm going to say nothing if I see that opportunity wasted by a novice manager who has for months now bewildered us with obtuse selections and substitutions. We are behind were we should be, that's the bottom line, and the catch-up will be getter harder from here on in without a sea change in home form.
Love totty
I wonder how Vital United and Vital City are going?
Geofspurs
Mix26 - you've become the problem, not him. You couldn't resist calling him a troll. Am I a troll now because my opinion of AVB's performance differs from yours?
Love totty
Reasons to be cheerful, get a cup of tea and enjoy:
Lamela
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAbJIq9wKN0
jacobslad
Lol come now LT how many seasons did it take City? How many seasons did it take Chelsea? You now favour the board who previously invested in Crouchinio and Saha etc... The novice manager and his astute sidekicks are the ones who have bought this team and no way does Levy deserve that credit. We are nowhere near actually competing for the title but there is a slightest of hope we can this season. People calling for the managers head when all the results have proven otherwise is just plain daft don't u think? I've never heard of a club sacking a manager who is 5 points off the title challenge and level on points with 2 champions and ahead of a City? Other than Chelsea of course. What a complete and utter waste this year would be should that even be a consideration. I wonder if u have same opinion of your Dr's diagnosis, calling his a novice... as if u had the qualifications to know more...
Mix26
Avb had an entire last season and he'll get this entire season...at the end of that we'll know if he's any good...so far he's earned the right to this year (just -as some would say taking us from 4th to fifth blowing a lead on the way was not progress) The board do actually need to back him...if as we are led to believe he wanted a LB why didn't we get one? and is he really happy with Defoe and Ade (and an emerging Kane) as the stikeforce to fire us into the elite?....interesting times where the decisions made off the pitch are having as much effect as those on....
shedboy2
Lol LT I do it to annoy him because he insults not only the manager but our club and players. I don't care that 3 months later he plays victim and pronounces his love for all things Spurs. I will continue to point it out regardless...
Mix26
Mix26 - I've never called for his sacking, ever. Same as I've never deprecated a player for not being better than he is. I want him to recognise his limitations and continue the learning he started under Jose and Bobby and respect the Spurs tradition of winning with style - before its too late.
Love totty
Brilliant link jacobslad. This is how to mix your game Townsend. COYS!
James1
The board also invested in Arneson, Comoli and Ramos whilst developing Berbatov, Modric and Bale into appreciating assets. they also beat Liverpool to the punch for Dempsey and Siggy. you can argue the success of some of that but not the ambition it demonstrated. I'm 100% behind my club and not content with the lack of ambition and desire for the right kind of success that others seem to accept as "jam tomorrow".
Love totty
Amen to that LT and with all due respect has he not earned the chance to prove his position and or at the very least been given the time to achieve it? There probs is not a manager in the game who does not learn new things daily about football and their players. I don't share the opinion of fans asking for instant glory because there is no glory to be had yet? What the modern fan wants is instant success by big winning scorelines and bragging rights. Our manager and our team are not interested just yet,points mean more. There is a clear plan in place with an expected outcome. If AVB fails then I expect the outcome he gets the chop.
Mix26
LT great post! Suffice to say that we have had a few years of crazy stuff that's been immense and heartbreaking, but this time round I honestly feel they have chosen to slow and steady with AVB.
Mix26
Ah, an outbreak of harmony. I'm beginning to fill up .:)
Love totty
hahahahahah
Mix26
At least the Newcastle game showed an improved attacking threat to our team. I for one am getting sick of coming up against Goal keepers who decide to have their game of the season when we play them. I still believe the "inverted" wingers should be an option deployed in certain games but not the default setting for our club. It is stiffling our strikers and midfielders and isn't helping any of our wingers. Signs in the last couple of games that we are starting to find our feet going forward as well as shutting out the opposition. This has been a slow return from a massive overhaul of the squad and tactics. Our big saving grace / curse is that the league has been so poor / competitive and therefore we are still in the running for champions league spots and league title and one or two teams haven't openedup a significant lead. United seem to have solved thier problems and we look to be on the road to recovery ourselves. But tactical stubborness hasn't helped our points tally. Sandro or capoue should be rotated for each other except against very attacking teams that we are trying to negate. Dembele will never be defensive midfielder, paulinho has surely earned a break, Eriksen, chadli, lamela all need a run in the first team to establish themselves and some form. Constant chopping and changing is not improving any of them.
Slurms McKenzie
Love totty I see your point. There is no style and no substance but I think we are seeing signs of quality play. All Spurs need is time and to me it's so painfully obvious. Clearly we want to be competing for the top 4 but we have to be realistic. It might not happen this season. If we do than it's a bonus. COYS!
James1
Absolutely Mix, he has earned that right. With his background he has shown great potential which we all want him to realise. The danger for him is that if he believes he has nothing to learn and is not responsive to the expectations of his employers and the fans to whom the employers will listen to.
Love totty
Imagine Berbatov up front with Soldado, and Modric in the middle, with this squad! (Damn, I said the 'M' word ... now I'm going to get depressed) lol
Geofspurs
Last season we achieved exactly what I expected and what our squad allowed - a dogfight with Le Arse for 4th. The mersy clubs were never going to be in it. Good for AVB, I didn't like our football but hey, he seemed to have the dressing room, so great. This year however we have bought in players with reputations. How long before they start to worry about their reputations and with the World Cup approaching start getting restless? That will be the true test of his ability to hold the spirit together.
Love totty
There is no guarantees in football. You can have the best manager, the top 11 best player's in the world playing for the same team but doesn't guarantee you success. Fergie almost got booted out of Utd after 5 years. Our greatest manager took him how many years? I think he took over in 58 and won the league in 61. Arthur Rowe before him played superb pass and run football but we almost got relegated. See my point. Even the greatest managers needed time. COYS!
James1
After last season this season was always going to be the true test for AVB, getting the investment in the team, already had a season under his belt. The style of play is not the best but we have seen glimpses of what can be achieved with good performances in certain parts of games such as 1st half v Chelsea, 1st half v Everton, 2nd half v Newcastle. If only this can be translated into full games. I expect us to be competing for top 4 and after the investment made and hopefully we see a better return from games soon.
Kong
James - sorry but you have to recognise that times have changed. It's not the 60s or the 80s. The money has exploded and the talent pool globalised. Sustaining success is now the goal not merely achieving it.
Love totty
That's right, James. With most things in life, it's always the journey that is more interesting than the destination ... and with Spurs the journey is never dull and it never ends!
Geofspurs
Oh and thanks to Sebastian for his (i think) debut article. Its what keeps the forum going.
Love totty
Talking of journeys Geoff, and looking ahead, I hope we leave some players behind when we visit Tromso. KO against ManU on the Sunday is 12.00 I think.
jacobslad
Love Totty maybe there is a lesson to be learned there? You can't sustain success by not giving managers time or am I missing the point? Unless we have Abromovich billions we can't afford to chop and change management. (I'm not saying this is what you want btw). COYS!
James1
Had we actually spent some money rather than just creaming off a slight profit from player sales then perhaps Levy would be less patient...
shedboy2
After Manu we are away to Fulham on the Weds and then up to Sunderland on the Saturday. 4 games in 10 days. Just as well a full squad looks like being available.
jacobslad
jacobslad ... I see no need to take a big bench - GK, MF, Stk, and Def (4)? Whatever happens they could mix and match. Yes, Man U kicks off at 12.00 ... but it's 8pm, and live on Foxtel, in Western Australia!!
Geofspurs
When there is disharmony in the dressing room, something has to give. Fergie had no compunction when getting rid of Beckham, Keane, Stam, Van Nostril etc to protect himself. Can that happen nowadays or will it be the manager that goes?
Love totty
I think having such a big squad like ours also has it's downfalls. Some of the players are playing as individuals to get in to the first team instead of playing as a team, Arsenal on the other hand have bit of a smaller squad but they are playing as a team. I hope that our squad rotation reaps us benefits as the season grows old, i just hope it's not too late though.
spurfect one
Geofspurs you're right. It's never dull with Spurs and the same could be said about VS ;) COYS!
James1
our 'big squad' looks decidedly light up front...
shedboy2
Yes Geoff and after the Sunderland game I will be packing me bags and setting off for Auckland for my winter break!
jacobslad
...and LW and LB, still only 3 of the 10 outfield positions...must stay positive- that 30% weakness won't affect us....;)
shedboy2
shedboy..come on we got Lamela, Townsend, Lennon, Chadli ...you want more left wingers than the Labour Party?
jacobslad
Our biggest problem is individual consistently, or lack of it.. None of our 7 new signings are playing to a world class level required to be a true top 4 team. This has resulted in lots of rotation where players are being dropped and others given a chance. Fighting for places is good but not knowing who your team mates will be is bad. We need Eriksen or Lamela to have 3 or 4 quality games in a row, really establish themselves so we can build some sort of stable team, then others can come in and play around them.
T.H.F.Chris
It would idiotic to sack AVB in only his second season at the club! But I think it is very unlikely Levy and Lewis will give him much cash in January after spending a hundred million in the summer, all be it recycled cash. AVB's job is rightly safe until the end of the season, but I can see Lewis sacking him if we don't make the Champions League (something Harry achieved in his first full season) or win the FA Cup or the Europa League... 8 coaches in 13 seasons proves Lewis and Levy are not the most patient of bosses...
pelebro
Seems like a lot of us are singing from the same song sheet.The squad is good but the manager is clueless.As Southampton are playing the sort of football that we love at Spurs ,let's swap managers and throw in Defoe as well.Sorted!
Greavesaboveall
I just want to see more goals scored by Spurs.
Slurms McKenzie
Too much rotation, too many injuries, Too many keeprs having the game of ther lives, too much inversion, not enough goals.
Slurms McKenzie
Clean sheets, domnate possession, big squad with two top class players for every position (nearly) - Lack of goals, lack of consistency,lack of speed in the build up, lack of consistency in team selection, lack of quality free kicks / corners, Ade. Take the positives and negatives out of that.
Slurms McKenzie
Forgot, poor decision making by playersand management, lack of support in the box, too mnay players played out of position. too much lack of creatitivty from visiting teams. Still in all cup competitions, five points off first, three points off ninth.
Slurms McKenzie
Agreed Seb...you read my post! Good article by the way.
jacobslad
The most important player we need fit and playing is Sandro!! The rest of the midfield can be chopped and changed. Without him playing behind the rest most league games, we better get used to a few more Newcastle first halfs!! COYS
WestStandEnclosure
Prehaps Seb, its more a case of AVB not compromising on his belief and approach to the game. He has a vision and a road map to get there and he won't deviate from it because he knows it will bring him and Spurs long term sustained success. I commend him if this is the case, I hope that Levy and lewis are also on board for this journey and I fear for the reaction from the results hungry crowd. Winning isn't everything - but winning NOW is!!
Slurms McKenzie
A weakened and lacking match fitness Sandro is stillout stand out player fo the season so far WSE. I'll repeat it again though he and Capoue should be rotated in and out for each other. The other two midfielders should be played further forward and out two wide men should be played out wide on the side they can play on.
Slurms McKenzie
jacobslad- unfortunately Lamela, townsend and lennon aren't left wingers...but yes more right wingers than at a UKIP tea party...;) Tops- it's not about balancing the books it's about balancing the squad...no LB and no back to goal striker (if Ade ain't going to play) was just plain stupid.
shedboy2
On average I think it is fair to say that MC, MU and Chelski have better players at their disposal than us. Le Arse & Liverpoo maybe but maybe not. I don't expect that we should garner too many points from that mini league on that basis. To succeed therefore in getting top 4 we must do better than them against the rest. We can't hope to though by just having a strong defence as shown against the Spam and Toon. We MUST play with more adventure at home against them.
Love totty
ps tops- the books didn't balance we made a profit on transfer activity...so had we balanced the squad with players it would have been good, we didn't....if my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle and all that...;)
shedboy2
At the moment we are in contention with the usual suspects for top4. That's good and positive, however performances have not been spectacular, this adds pressure. We are in a position regardless of how we get there and nothing is decided at this stage. Whoever can mount a sustained run from around Christmas until Easter will probably win the spoils, that's how it usually goes. If we can sort out our issues up top then maybe it could be us.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Tophobunty. The same size squads yes, but we have quality cover in almost every position except for LB and CF, other teams do not have that luxury and hardly play their entire squad. We have rotated more then most, that's a fact mate, when players come in to our first eleven they are probably trying to shine as individuals rather then playing to each others strenghts, it's not an excuse just logic. Whether that's AVB fault is up to your discretion.
spurfect one
Love Totty, I'd dispute your statement that MU have better players at their disposal, like wise Liverpool and Arsenal. What they have is more effective use of the players they have. As well as having a few stand out performers. Lloris, Vertongen, Sandro, Paulinho and possiby Soldado would get into all those teams in a heart beat.Is there a better Right back then Walker at United or liverpool? Fergie performed miracles with a very limited squad which really hasn't been added to. Thats whats so furstrating about our current performances we are under achieving. we're not unlucky, We haven't been beaten by better teams or being our fought, we are being out thought and it shouldn't be happening!
Slurms McKenzie
Manu, Citeh, Chelsea, liverpool and Southampton all have better forward lines than us Arsenal have a better forward for their team, everton have a better forward for their team - 3 points for a win means you have to score- the only shock is Citeh are behind us...If you expect strike options of Soldado and defoe (with an awol Ade) to fire us into the elite i think you have a shock coming...
shedboy2
On the squad, if we look at it from back to front, GK Lloris excellent, Brad as number 2 not so much. We really needed to sort that out. Back 4 is good, I'm OK with Danny Rose at LB, he deserved his chance after his successful loan. The Midfield is now just a forest, and soon some of the wood will die. I'm not sure why we had to bring in Capoue AND Paulinho when we already had Dembele, Holtby, Sandro, Parker, Hudd, Livermore at the club. I think we spent money there, that would have been better spent up front or buying a better replacement for Bale rather than Chadli. I'm just not sure what the point of bringing those 2 in when Holtby has hardly had a chance. I also think that Hudd could have been useful to this team. Lots of options, but all very vanilla, and not enough goals. Up front, we are again light due largely to the Ade issue. We have Soldado and Defoe, both require service, and both similar in style to one another. We really needed another quality striker in the mould of Ade. Diego Costa 16 goals in 14 La Liga appearances this season. Oh what could have been? I'm not too worried about Soldado, I think he'll be alright once we work out how to supply him, and I think Lamela and Eriksen will be good, but they need games. lamela at number 10 and Eriksen deeper. I think we splurged some of the Bale money and would rather have spread it across 2 or 3 windows to ensure we acquired players in the correct positions.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Slurms - the "average" bit is certainly debatable but we have no one of the calibre of RVP , Rooney or Suarez who make goals for themselves. Dark - yes second half against Toon but we had given them something to defend.
Love totty
Cleveland none of the midfield players we brought in were a down grade on what we had. Sandro and Capoue's injuries show why both were needed. We also have two other midfield positions that have to be filled every game, if we suggest that Sandro, Paulinho and Eriksen will be our first choice midfield, when all things are equal, then Capoue, Dembele and Holtby become the back up or rotation Siggy then as a jack of all trades covering player. Not much waste there. Lamela / Lennon and Chadli / Townsend out wide again two players for every position. Where are we light, GK, LB, and striker due to ade situation as you alluded to.
Slurms McKenzie
Love Totty no arguement that we are the poor relations in the attackimg department and our league stats back that up!
Slurms McKenzie
Actually we do have someone of that calibre - Emanuel Adebayor, but we're saving him for what I don't know. Has anyone mentioned him before?
Love totty
LT didn't he play for arsenal back in the day? Thought he was signed by some turkish outfit...
Slurms McKenzie
I think he's the new boot room boy.
Love totty
Cleveland ARTSPURS, Cant agree with you on Capoue and Paulinho. I think time will prove that they are the best two purchases of the summer. Those are the two who will have the biggest resale profit value. AVB has rotated the team to much in my opinion apart from Paulinho who has played virtually every game including League Cup matches, and he is starting to look look very tired, which is obviously effecting his performances. But he is a wonderful football player and will star in the World Cup if AVB does not flog him to death? Capoue, well he looks the closest thing I have seen to Patrick Viera, loved his first few games for us. What the midfield does lack however is a small Modric style player to work off the bigger guys. Holtby could have been that player, but lets be honest he is no where near the class of Modric! A lot of potential in the squad when AVB finally starts picking the most talented players, and edits out his current 1st choice players who are not as gifted...
pelebro
@Slurms. I just don't think that we had to put the money into that area. Neither Paulinho or Capoue are downgrades, but I wouldn't say that they are setting it on fire either. Capoue injury I know, but they are not world class additions, but more potential. If you buy one then you should sell either Dembele or Holtby, which seems pointless as we just bought them. I don't think that we need 6 rotators in CM as it just causes problems. I even forgot about Siggi, how could I? Holtby, Dembele, Sandro are all adaptable enough to cover each other. With or without Ade, we still needed another striker as JD is now 31. I'm hoping that Lamela will be that man and become our established number 10 as I don't think either Siggi, Eriksen or Holtby are most effective there. They are better played deeper. Spu4 made a really good point earlier about goals. If we just imagine our midfield cohort as goal machines, who in the plethora we have are going to step up and score effectively 12-15 goals a season.I'm not seeing it at the moment. When we lost Bale, we lost his goals, and we needed to replace those. last season, only Soldado and Lamela of the purchases we made scored regularly. We havn't played Lamela much and Soldado has struggled in open play, none of the others have contributed apart from Siggi, hence our poor goal return.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
I've heard of Roy Something-or-other who plays for Melchester Rovers. I wonder if he'll be available in the January window.
Love totty
Cleveland ARTSPURS- ....I'm not sure if you remember me wanting Costa...;) who could also cover the left! 1 player to balance out two of our weaknesses, what might have been indeed!...I too questioned the need for Capoue but was glad we got him rather than him go to Arse...and I think there is a bit more variety in there than what appears at first glance...capoue is a DM but a good long range passer, Sandro is a dynamic DM, Dembele is strong but a runner from deep not a DM, Pauli is box to box, holtby can sit deep or at the appex...add the creative but yet to settle eriksen and we have 6 players for 3 positions....4231 or 433..all pretty much interchangeable, the engine room of Spurs looks good! I can see why rose deserved a shot but imo he needs to fight it out for that spot as he's never shown top4 quality...imo Gomes is not a bad number 2 but then again i haven't seen him play for yonks...can't be worse than brad though can he? Left forward I've never been convinced that Chadli is top4 quality but he has shown flashes so I'm willing to give him a chance (if ever fit)...Gylfi has filled the left manfully but has had some shockers (still three times as many goals as townsend with less than half the shots, tops..;)) RW townsend was good cover whilst lennon was injured as he fits the inverted mold that AVb wants to play but his direct running and subsequent hype after a pot shot went in for England has complicated things...imo he's not top4 quality and I can see why he may have been surplus to requirements at the beginning of the season...Lamela needs to settle and lennon coming back means we're OK on the right., CB's Verts, Kaboul, Daws and Vlad are a good a combo, RB- Walker immense, Naughton more than able deputy...just leaves striker....and we all know the problems there...maybe Gylfi will be or answer...;)
shedboy2
Love Totty Lets hope we don't need a Roy of the Rovers type player to save our season...
Slurms McKenzie
add diego Costa and Coentrao to our squad and we'd be title contenders....
shedboy2
@Pelebro, Lol, Are you saying that Mr Levy is thinking about the resale value, never, that's not in his DNA surely. I'm not saying that both those guys arn't good players, but when you look at our CM, our requirements were, we need a Modric replacement and somebody who can score goals, like Lampard. Paulinho was billed as the new Lampard, but so far has failed to deliver on goals, not much better than Dembele, Capoue doesn't play like Modric, so why select him for purchase when we already have the excellent Sandro and Holtby who can do his job. Eriksen should be our new Modric, but he is being played out of position so that we can fit Pauli and Dembele into the side. I don't question the players, they are all good but not all needed in a 25 man squad. I just question the wisdom of oversubscribing the CM positions, with big units when there are real weaknesses up front. If you think for one minute, if Soldado falls off his bike or something and gets injured for 3 months, we are left with JD up front on his own for that period. No GB wonder goals to Bale us out this time. That's all that I am saying. Same in Goal. If Negredo knocks out Lloris so that he can't play for 2 months we have Brad in goal. Scary!!!!!
Cleveland ARTSPURS
As I said earlier we are currently being out thought by the opposition and all these dropped points are self inflicted. Hopefully Sunday's Second half performance my cause the penny to drop and we start delivering at both ends of the pitch not just one or the other!
Slurms McKenzie
@Shedboy, when I read the article about Costa the other day, I thought about all the times you championed him. He was in the Spain squad before he got injured.. @Topho, yes I agree about Pauli and Capoue, both good players, and I would have understood it more if Siggi, Hudd, Livermore and Dembele were sold. Hey ho, I don't make the decisions though. Probably a good thing.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Question for the people of the forum. Is it better to buy two world class players for the same position, whilst leaving another position weak, or is it better to buy one world class player for one position and a second, lesser player for the second position so that it is adequately covered?
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Good posts Slurms, I agree with alot of what you say.
Ossie
Cleveland, I would say 2 excellent players for each positon, I do feel that AVB believe he has this, except for LB (where I think he hoped we would have acquired Coentrao), altho alot of us feel the suggest GK and striker options are lacking as well, also I will say as this is a project we wasn't gonna pick up all the pieces in one window. Im sure the LB slot will get sorted in Jan, maybe a striker too if the Ade situation gets sorted out, Brad I see him staying till his contract expires.
Ossie
The blue print has been set by Bayern Munich right footed player on the left and a left footed player on the right, time to put that blue print in the shredder, it's bo//ox. What is does for us is make it even harder on our so called ''small pitch'' strange that it's been the same size for years. Who works best walker & lennon down the right, townsend i consider would work better over on the left, his natural side, with either rose or verts. This would give us a better chance of getting past the opposition full back or double defensive cver on the outside, making our ''small pitch'' wider stretching the opposition. Finding the right balance is proving harder because of the bayern blue print we adopt, lets go back to basics, after all you can hardly tackle these days anyway, putting opposition player in row z are a thing of the past, who is our best holding player, for me it's sandro, who could be best served to be our lock picker on his day eriksen doing the old modders role, who is looking a natural for the vdv role, for me it will be lamela in time, but time we don't have, so get him in, do you have to speak the language of the native country or is playing football a language known through out the world over, the ball is the same size in any part of the world. LLORIS in goal, WALKER with LENNON in front of him, KABOUL is a hard player and a good footballing centre half, able to bring the ball out of defence and i consider him to be quicker then dawson, CHIRICHES as his centre half partner tough tackling, footballing centre half and also quick, VERTS with TOWNSEND in front of him, midfield of SANDRO holding role and ERIKSEN pulling the strings, LAMELA plays in the hole as VDV did, with SOLDADO up top; Lloris; Walker; Kaboul; Chiriches; Verts; Lennon; Eriksen; Sandro; Townsend; Lamela; Soldado. 4-4-1-1 which can change to 3-5-2, even 4-5-1 when we defend, yes it leaves out some very good players, but this is how we used to set teams up the personal is different in some positions, but i feel we would have a better chance of scoring. You defend as a team and attack as a team, put those seating plans in the A4 folder in the bin, you know the ones, they show them to the player coming on, just have a photo of the ball and tell him without that you can do phuck all.
spu 4 life
Cleveland ARTSPURS, I think that's a difficult question to answer. Generally, with football being a team game, the saying "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link " would lead you to option 2 and have every position adequately covered (remember what happened to Madrid when they foolishly sold Makelele). On the other hand, passing up on the opportunity to buy a world class player could have long term consequences, especially for a club like Spurs who generally have to take gamble's on potential rather than the bringing in the finished article. Might depend on how weak the player is in option 1 and how the manager feels the team will cope with such an achilles heel. A weak GK is suicidal, but maybe you can get away with a weak LB and upgrade that position the following season..
Guyver
Dark - Krul made some great reaction saves but you could hardly say that we opened them up. The best save was from a deflected free kick and scramble that followed it. But yes we need more of that spirit from the kick-off. We need to pull teams apart with pace and guile, not squeeze them to death like a boa constrictor.
love totty
Just as food for thought, 11 games, 11 starting positions in each game. 49 of the 121 have been players new to the first team this season. A further 42 are players acquired last season. Of the 30 remaining starting positions, Walker and Dawson have each started 11. How can anyone suggest that players aren't still getting to know each other and that the manager is not still figuring out who works best where, and with whom.? As I have repeatedly suggested, it will take until the New Year for even AVB to know who his best XI are. I too would be happier if we had beaten West Ham and Newcastle, but 5 points off the lead, 11 games in is hardly the end of the world. We have not played great going forward but have certainly done the job defensively despite the injuries to Kaboul and Rose. Yes, we have to score more. We must be less wasteful. We need to do better on set pieces. But, to suggest that the new players do not need to settle in with everyone else is ridiculous. This team has undergone monumental change over the past 16 months. Not a single game we have dropped could we not have won if we'd taken our chances and executed better. Don't get me wrong, both West Ham and Newcastle I believe AVB got the player selections wrong. Way too early to even be looking for knives, let alone sharpening them. COYS
peterballb
Cleveland ARTSPURS, I agree Modric has not been replaced, but that is because Holtby was bought to play a similar role, but has nor delivered as yet. The decision was made to off load Hudd and I agree we do miss his long range passing, and it seems Capoue was designed to be his replacement. Regading Paulinho being the new Lampard, well Lampard enjoyed a much greater freedom to attack than Paulinho has, who has been used as the holder whilst AVB made the foolish decision to bench the clubs best defensive midfielder Sandro. Push Paulinho further into the hole with Sandro sitting back as the holder and he will score lot's more goals! As for your saying "@Pelebro, Lol, Are you saying that Mr Levy is thinking about the resale value, never, that's not in his DNA surely." You are joking of course? When has Levy not thought of a players resale value when buying? With the exception of Soldado, (because of his age) he has sold every single player who's value has double or tripled he has ever bought. That's what he does for a living... He's a buy sale merchant, always has been, always will... It's the ENIC DNA!
pelebro
dark - I also have confidence that AVB will get more from these players. We also need to give him freedom to offload the ones he doesn't fancy (Ade, Livermore, Ekotto, Gomes etc). My immediate concern though is whether he is going to learn from his recent selection and tactical errors. Settling for a conservative line-up at home in the first half thinking you can win the game in the second half from the bench is some sort of tactics. It's not the tactics that a top 4 side playing Newcastle at home should be employing though. That's more the tactics we'd play if we were playing top of the league.
muttley
Guyver- look at peters post to see how easy it is to manipulate data to your way of thinking....;)
shedboy2
peterbalb - philosophically agree with that. It will take time for AVB to get the best out of his players and tactics especially with the high turnover of players last summer. What I might argue though is he now needs to switch some of his selections around the other way. In a European week, Kaboul should be playing the league games and Dawson in the EL. Ditto with Dembele and Sandro. Ditto with Lamela and Siggy. We should be using the better players in the league and let the other guys find their form again on a Thursday night or in the Capitol One cup. For me, the best and most in-form eleven always start in the league.
muttley
Lots of reasons to be cheerful with THFC, at present.....and a few not. The 3 top entertaining reasons...to be cheerful ......LLoris, Townsend and Vertonghen....also pleasing to see Sandro is continually improving...and Dawson doing his fair share.
82spursdebut
shedboy2, yes, one can always ignore the facts one wishes to. I could have always just said that Lennon, Defoe, Dawson, Friedel, Sandro, Kaboul, Walker have all started and thus we have been adding new players to the mix, little by little. It would not be true, but all 7 have started at least once. How is it manipulating facts to say that 49 of 121 starting positions have been from those new to the squad? Over 40% of our starters have been with this team less than 6 months and a further 35% have been with this club less than 16 months. If you want to call a turnover of 75% of the starters in over 16 to b a stable platform, you are welcome to do so. What other team that is in the top of the table have changed their squad to that degree over two seasons? How many have done so with a new manager? Who did United add to their starters? City? Chelsea? Arsenal? Liverpool? How many of those have not been slowly worked in to their team? Spurs have undergone massive changes in the past 4, 16 months to the starters and the squad. Need proof? Look at the starting lineup against Newcastle in game one last season and compare it to what we fielded the other day? Night and day. The players now are of a much better quality. But to suggest that they have bedded in fully is ridiculous. Common theme? I wonder if Adebayor will ever show? COYS
peterballb
muttley, a fair amount of that has been attributable to the injuries and situations. Kaboul was not supposed to play 120 minutes against Hull, so that stuck him in mid week. Lamela played a full game aganst Sheriff, so Townsend was always going to start. I would not have started Sigurdsson, and certainly not on the left. Either Lennon or Lamela should have been there. I have said all along, one or both of Capoue and Sandro must start. That to me is as obvious as the nose on my face. Then again, how did Capoue recover from his first game back after injury. Was he able to go? Was Sandro? I presume Sandro wasn't as he surely would have started (should have started) if 100%. I don't like Townsend on the right. Don't like it at all. At none of his loans has he shown an ability to carry a team, a la Bale or Robben. So why are we leaning on him in that fashion? Why has Lennon not started on the right? He' a settled player, is he not? These are things I don't get, but then I recognize that Sandro and Capoue hae been battling injuries. I recognize that Townsend has shown flashes and has worked hard showing subtle improvements every game. So, can I begrudge AVB for who he selects. Sigurdsson has more goals from open play than anyone else. Again, I have issue with the starters for West Ham and Newcastle. I am not privy to niggling injuries so cannot run rough shod over AVB for what he did. In all games, the players on the pitch were good enough to get three points. There's work to be done. Time will also solve some of the issues. COYS
peterballb
To get tap ins we really need those players who are shooting regardless, to at least hit the target. Some crosses would be welcome too. Tap ins come when you have intricate team play. I would suggest we are a very good squad and a very average team. The team will get better. COYS
peterballb
Soldado should have done better with 2 of his 3 headed efforts.
82spursdebut
Soldado should have anticipated better on that superb eriksen cross, in the first half.
82spursdebut
Not starting Lamela, after the Sheriff performance, I find baffling. That to me, is not good man management. Ie....the young Lamela, will have to start again in building his confidence...after the international break.
82spursdebut
haha shedboy, he has mastered the arts.
Guyver
peterbalb - well this is when we'll find out. Will Kaboul, Capoue and Sandro start against Man City or will AVB wait until Dawson and Paulinho pick up their 5th yellow cards? Surely, playing Capoue, Sandro and Paulinho against City away makes sense? So does playing Kaboul and Vertonghen and dropping Dawson with Rose returning to LB to provide the width. We'll find out whether AVB sees it that way.
muttley
Top'..yes, I agree..not many clear cut chances being made in the prem' this season, so far, by spurs. But enough decent chances for a better possible award. All this talk is part and parcel of the entertaining football world.......and we / you / I.....love it. We cannot overly criticise AVB...on the season, so far. We cannot overly criticise....the response from the teams 2nd half display. I.e...they left the dressing room pretty charged. Plus they change in personnel was a good call. Much we can criticise...and view our opinions on. Are we under achieving ?
82spursdebut
Pathetic blind support for AVB...he's clueless
jordtheyid
tophobunty3, do you know where opta rank us for clear cut chances created?
Guyver
Blaming Danny Rose's injury we really must be struggling. I give it 3 weeks before you all realise our manager is totally inept.
jordtheyid
Well, I stand in the camp..that if we don't get minimum 2 points vs the Manchester clubs...that I would sack AVB...cos' we would be mid' table...and very unlikely to make top 4, this season. But..
82spursdebut
but...I believe in one season at a time, roll on contracts.
82spursdebut
I would say we had two clear cut chances on Sunday, Soldados header and Eriksen's chance, the others were instinctive shots. Crosses were put in the box but no one on the end of them.
Kong
It's early days but if we lose our next two games and I fear we will then I think it is going to be difficult for us unless other teams drop points like they did this week. I also think levy will start to get nervous, he wants CL and with the investment I think he expects it this year and another couple of defeats will get him ruffled and if by xmas we are not in it then AVB will be in serious trouble imo. I just cannot see levy leaving too late to make a change as we have a strong squad and I am sure he feels this squad is good enough to get CL and if AVB cannot improve the performances and we start to drop behind then Levy will act, it's in his nature. So as I see it rightly or wrongly AVB is beginning to walk a tight rope and the next month is crucial to his time at the lane.
WorldPeace
We will soon find out if it will change quickly as Man U and man city will move attack us. That might suit us but we still need to score. More fast tempo, more fluid passing game is needed.
Kong
I think you got it right ....world peace. I'll add...that perhaps the cup competitions will see Avb through to the end of the tightrope (season).
82spursdebut
if Avb doesn't get top 4....i'd suggest he /we / THFC...need to win a cup, this season. But i'm speculating.
82spursdebut
Topho I checked opta, but I think you have to register to see some of their stuff and I couldnt be bothered. I think we were mid table last season, 7th-10th but I saw an article recently that said this season we have improved significantly in this area, which surprised me. Eriksens miss was a clear cut chance vs Newcastle as far as im concerned. When you have time to control the ball in the penalty area, middle of the goal, aim and take a shot, you should score whether there are defenders near you or not. Also Paulinho's attempt from a Defoe pass in the 2nd half, but that's debatable. 2 CCC per a game is a good average if you go by the very restrictive critera opta use. Anyway it is subjective.
Guyver
If played correctly then soldado is world class and paulinho will produce the goods. You don't have a record like soldado and be bad, another striker would not have suddenly scored loads more, maybe would have brought something different to the team. I don't think we got the wrong players but we are not playing the right way to utilise our players strengths.
Kong
Topho - Not saying you was saying he wasn't but only mentioning what other posters were saying
Kong
You got to laugh, up to the Newcastle loss the main gripe was the boring, pedestrian football. Effective, but that is not what Spurs is about, we want entertainment!! So the next game we lose but lots of entertainment, sack the manager, we spent 100M (not true, bank balance only 3M down), we should be challenging for the title! As Spurs fans we have a well earned reputation for being ficle, we are now stretching it to the ridiculous.
ItalianYiddo
Top'....i'm assuming winning the capital cup would get you into Europe, when I say this.....but I think it would be considered acceptable, for this season, to enable AVB another season......why ?...the young players progression and the squad cohesion, transmission.....into winners, ready to go again. Darkenvai'...you are entitled to write what you like and how..(within reason)....I don't think it is right you telling people to stop doing something on here, unless you are paying them.
82spursdebut
italianyiddo'....we are just debating. Nothing more. Fact is if we drop to mid' table.....many will be calling for AVB's head...lol
82spursdebut
I think Soldado's headed effort from Townsends shot, was poor too. Some might say that was a decent chance. Should have headed it downwards.
82spursdebut
I would say the soldado header falls into a clear chance but accept it can be seen as borderline. Suarez is in his third full season at Liverpool. He scored 4 in 13 games when he arrived, 11 league goals from 31 games n 2011-12, not world class stats are they? It was only last season he scored for fun and carried it on this season. I agree he is world class and is the complete striker but has had time to settle here, soldado is not average from only 10 starts but that is your opinion which I accept is different to mine.
Kong
I am not making excuses I am saying as I see it, 82, no way AVB will get sacked this season, AVB has made an investment in a team and manager he won't knee jerk. He will give AVB at least the whole of this season, the only plausible possibility of him losing his job is if he loses the trust of the players, I see a team wanting to play for each other, other than Defoe and Andros they only want to play for themselves, and for the manager.
ItalianYiddo
Levy not AVB
ItalianYiddo
Wouldn't Liverpool fans have expected more than 11 goals in his first season costing 23m?
Kong
I like AVB...he shows passion and desire to win, Doesn't nec'ly mean he is good at his job though. Couple of weeks ago....I gave the season..8.5 /10. Now, I give it 7.5 / 10.
82spursdebut
IF...we drop to mid' table after the Manchester games...i'd be giving us 5/10 to 6/10...depending on what I see in the performances.
82spursdebut
Krul has said that the Spurs game was the highlight of his career. How many saves did he make playing against multimillion Chelsea? I give some credit to my team, 3 points would have been deserved, didn't happen the keeper earned his keep and when he was beaten the bar got in the way, that's football, we live to fight another day.
ItalianYiddo
The aim of the game is to score goals, Soldados records is up there with the best , granted not in the premier league but judge him after a full season, you say that we don't create clear cut chances and we need to do it more, well if we did then Soldados goals will increase. Course soldado compared to Suarez is not comparable but who is, Suarez is different class. We have soldado so I will support him. Liverpools squad was not the best two years ago but for a world class striker who can create his own chances 11 goals is a poor return for 23m.
Kong
We certainly didn't deserve to lose.....and the 2nd half performance was good. So near, yet so far, from perfection...very frustrating. Hitting the bar is a off target effort...but it was a near miss. Yes, we are capable of getting a good result at City.
82spursdebut
I don't understand why Dawson started instead of Kaboul, I don't understand why Sandro didn't start, I don't understand why Lamela didn't come on instead of Defoe. At the same time I don't see the players in training everyday and I don't know the fitness of players that's why I am trusting the manager's judgement at this moment in time. It is naive to think we know best watching from the stands or long distance from a TV screen.
ItalianYiddo
Your right we don't know everything....that includes ex players like keown and Shearer.....we are just enjoying talking about our Fav' game.
82spursdebut
Topho, I think your post summed up the opinions here nicely:

it seems the majority on here spend most of their time looking for and promoting excuses as to why we have not...... instead of understand why we have not and finding solutions......these are the two camps on here.

In any walk of life, especially employment, it is about results, improvement, delivering and proving your worth. Last season we had the excuse of AVB "inherited" a team and wait 'til he has a squad of his own choice to play with his style. Now (I think) he has HIS selected squad. 15 games on (inc EL and CC), do I see an improvement?. My honest answer is ...well, not yet! There are MINOR signs, but nothing definitive. With such a large 'talented' international squad, I expected by now to have arrived at a 1st 11 for the PL. I think apart from Lloris, Walker, Vert, Pauli, Soldado, he is still trying to find the best MF'rs and AMF'rs. The swapping and changing in that area has thus far has been inconclusive. I can't think of any 'excuses' or 'reasons' for that, except understanding between players (positionally, ability, telepathy) takes a long time to develop, especially if language and PL adaptation are also an issue. However, what I can't comprehend is how we can play two halves of a game so radically different (v Newcastle). Hope there are lessons learnt from that match and I'd be bitterly disappointed if they serve up the same old, same old in the next match. This gelling in and identifying the 1st 11 process has to move up a gear. What better time than against the Mancs teams! COYS!
Critical_Spur
82, talking of Shearer, did you hear him on MOTD? He couldn't understand why Defoe isn't starting. Does he know how many he's scored in the last 20 or so starts? Pundit my ass.
ItalianYiddo
He wasn't a great manager either....lol...mind...he was what I call "the near perfect striker". Think....we (spurs fans) are closer to being experts on THFC, than Shearer....simply cos' we watch spurs so much, even repeatedly, sometimes.
82spursdebut
Great debate today, but now time for bed. That's clear cut as far as I'm concerned. Goodnight all. Play nicely.
love totty
Cleveland ... Two world class players for each position could never work. They would both want to play the majority of games and, mathematically, that could not happen. No WORLD CLASS player will sit on the bench when he could be playing more games for another world class team. Egos and ambition would not allow this to work and, eventually, the dressing room and team spirit would collapse. We could see the effect of this ourselves unless AVB gets the rotation right. One world class player with a very solid back-up is more realistic.
Geofspurs
Critical you make valid points on all fronts. One aspect of AVB's management is that he's going for all the competitions trying to keep as many players involved as possible unlike our previous manager who only concentrated on the PL. It may be unrewarding at the end of the season or we may win something along with CL qualification. The easy way out is to concentrate on the PL, no coincidence that our poorest performances have been on the back of Europa games. I personally admire the guts to go for all of them but being gutsy isn't always wise. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
"Hated" him as player, dirty b'stad he was, he always found the elbows useful.
ItalianYiddo
Muttley, AVB can only select from the players available. Kaboul has been unavailable, more often than not. He and Dembele need to be managed. Yes, if all come back from the break healthy, AVB needs to start getting it right. I surmise (don't know) that neither Capoue nor Sandro were fit to play 90 minutes Sunday. That greatly affects what one does as manager. Lloris wasn't available. Again, greatly affects the team and how we play. Again, barring poor selections and results, I'm giving him and the players until 2014 to show genuine gelling. COYS
peterballb
Sweet Totty dreams, Totty
ItalianYiddo
ItalianYiddo, I will always back a manager for going for all competitions. Winning is the goal. If CL is the only goal, let's just get Wenger and win nowt. Shout it from the rooftops, we're fourth, we're fourth. Not even a medal at the Olympics. Yes, there's money, but that hasn't helped Arsenal win anything or help them to hold on to their better players. So we aspire to be a feeder club to the best. I'd suggest we have already arrived at that point and need to push on. COYS
peterballb
ItalianYiddo, That is another area that has puzzled me this time round, i.e., EL team selection. WHY (with the squad that we have AND the group stage draw that we have) do we not play our SECOND team at this stage. Even with limited or no football knowledge, one would assume that mighty Spurs would qualify from the group stage at a canter!. So why make the likes of Soldado travel all the way to Russia to sit on the bench where Kane would've been ample deputy for Defoe. Also, why risk Dembele, Paulinho, Vert to name a few, on these ridiculous games? One thought would be that it's part of the gelling-in process where the combo's of players have to assessed in competitive environment. Surely we can't then use EL as an excuse for our PL failure?. Defoe scoring hatful of goals against unheard of teams does little for our PL outings. I now that qualification to the knockout stages is virtually assured, EL will be a match fitness and 'keep involved' exercise. You never know, Ade and Gomes may get an outing with the kids!. COYS!
Critical_Spur
Critical, didn't we often play two different halves under Harry too. The players and the manager have to learn to win. How often do we throw away points late in games? Very rare. Three years ago we all waited for the shoe to drop. Now we expect it won't. The team is better and will continue to grow together. AVB deserves more credit and respect that some on here are prepared to give. Shame. He could have gone elsewhere in the summer for bigger money. COYS
peterballb
Critical, I think he wanted to make sure of qualifying ahead of a tough list of fixtures. I think he wants the competition and IF we make it to the Turin final a lot of the negativity will dissipate.
ItalianYiddo
Critical, it would seem we should have qualified at a canter for group stages a couple of years ago, and didn't. Last year we squeaked through. Last year in the cups we were offed by much lesser teams. Lesson has been taken. If all four of the top teams go through in the League Cup, the semis should be fantastic. We can now rest players for Anzhi and Tromso. That is a huge benefit. The season is long. Cups can end any day. COYS
peterballb
oh Peter where do I start....you pose questions re:stability and starters of other clubs that you should already know the answer to if your figs are to be compared...is your baseline that all teams or even us last year (any year?) played 11 starters in the first 11 games? that had been at the club at least a year? or one or two transfer windows?...do you count Rose and Townsend as new yet they have been at the club since 2007 and 2009 respectively? who else are you counting as new? Get the baseline right (if you have nothing better to do) and you may have some basis of an argument...your figures as presented are conjecture nothing more.
Perhaps Peter food for thought as a counter argument....AVB is in his second season with us (what's the avg tenure of a manager 18mths?), a competent manager would already know the players he's been working with or were there before him by now (how could he send rose and Townsend on loan if he didn't know them?, How could he sell or buy players if he hadn't assessed the squad?)..and the others he has purchased to fit a system. Of those new players Pauli and Soldado have been constantly played and the rest have hardly had a kick....yes there is some integration to do between players (a good reason to have them in by preseason) and I agree the knives shouldn't be out but you totally distort the picture to try and imbued an excuse and in so doing (inadvertently) suggest the manager is either slow witted or incompetent...I don't believe he's either and suggest that many other factors (some outside of AVB's control) are contributing to our perceived poor play/ lack of goals...
shedboy2
As I said Peter, I would go for it all if it was my choice, that's why admire AVB's desire. The guy has shown commitment and I'm sure Levy will show his, starting with a LB and forward in January.
ItalianYiddo
shedboy mate, you were calling for AVB's head after 10 games last season and we finished up with our best ever PL tally, as I was saying at the same time last season, give him time.
ItalianYiddo
Busy day tomorrow, goodnight to all, when all said and done, we are all Spurs. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
As much as i hate to say it, i would trade any of our CM's right now for an old friend name Luka Modric. I would do dirty, dirty things to see his little croatian bum gliding around the Lane. Sad but true. Certainly lots to be happy about but this recent bad run obviously cant continue and i dont think it will. If we can somehow manage 4 pts out of these next 2 that would be great. 2pts while not desirable is not bad, anything less would be harsh. We clearly need to find a better mix in the center of the park and need to find better and more consistent play on the wings for certain. I agree with the rest of you guys and wud like to see townsend on left with Lamela on right with capability of swapping. Soldado is going to continue to get murdered if he gets this type of support. Ade needs to start getting some time, i dont care in what type of game just get him in there AVB its been too long now. Siggs on the left needs to end, period. Its been clear Paulinho has hit his wall yet he keeps playing the full 90 once or twice a week. He played almost minute in every game for Brazil in the confed cup this past summer. All the more reason Sandro if 100% or even 80% shud be getting waaaay more time and certainly not getting subbed off unless he's injured on about to get his 2nd yellow. We all clamored for 5 years we wanted rid of the dead weight and wanted to get great depth at each position. Now we have it in almost every area and because AVB hasnt mastered it yet we are all getting a bit impatient. Thats fine what i dont understand is idiots calling for his sacking or saying he's clueless. Every time i thought this team was down and out the last 4-5 years they have proven me wrong and went on a solid run and proved me wrong. I will finish by saying ive watched all 90 minutes of every PL game this year up until this weekend when i missed my first game live. I think i picked a good game to miss, watching the highlights was bruuuuuutal. Stick with it lads. COYS.
YankeeSpur23
Yankee - Agree with you there. I watch every game, too, and Spurs were brilliant (exciting) throughout the second half on Sunday but could not find a goal (we've seen that before). The squad is all there (apart, maybe, for a LB) ... it's a matter of AVB working it all out, which is no easy task. Why did you have to mention Modric?! ... If you've seen my other posts you know it reduce me to tears!
Geofspurs
Reasons to be cheerful. Our squad!! I am fully behind AVB but not cheerful about our current league position and goals scored column. Bottom line is that we are for a variety of reasons simply not good enough offensively. Some on here blurr reasons with excuses. In the grand scheme of things there are reasons why we are just 5 points from top, missed an opportunity to go 2nd with just 9 goals scored. We all love our club to want to win every game and walk away with the league. Some of us on here won't tolerate defeats any defeats. Some on here, it's all about a top performance and a win. We have the players to deliver these performances and wins. I still believe AVB is the right man. I firmly believe that unless there is a drastic and prolonged down turn in results not performances, he won't be going anywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we upped our game and took 3 or 4 points off the Manchester clubs.
strawboy
Reasons to be Cheerful......1 week booked off work starting as of tomorrow. Cheerful doesn't even come close. Happy Days.
Cider spurs
Cider ... Enjoy!
Geofspurs
ItalianYiddo- Comprehension dear boy, comprehension! ...;) I was not calling for AVB's head last year after 10 games...I was defending the right to criticize his decisions and those that were being and I don't think 'bullied' is too strong a word for having the temerity to question him. In fact i said last year we'd know by x-mas if he was worth continuing with. If you'll read my posts now you'll see again i am not calling for his head...in fact I've stated now is not the time but again we'll know by the end of this season if he's worth continuing with....as for PL point tally - we came fifth last year, one step back from the previous year...now who's trying to use stats to suit their agenda...;)
shedboy2
Interesting reading in a clearly expressed thoughtful article.
Airwave
 

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