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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

Is it really that bad?

I look at the league, and perhaps I am one of a few who do this, but I see Spurs in 6th having lost to Arsenal, City (bad day at the office), Newcastle and West Ham (pure fluke). Now, if you look above Tottenham, you have Liverpool (yet to play City, Chelsea, Cardiff and us), Arsenal (yet to play Everton, City, Chelsea) Chelsea have some difficult games coming over Christmas also. It just seems to me that people are jumping on the AVB out bandwagon, and quite frankly panicking before we need too, when in actual fact we have got our 'big games' out of the way.

You know the games, the ones that deep in your heart, you know that we probably won't win and despite the argument that you have with that Chelsea fan in work, you secretly would be happy with 3 points from the City, Chelsea and United games.. No? Just me then. I have predicted how I think Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton will do in December as I think the top 4 this season will be made up of City, Chelsea and any two of Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton or Spurs. United, I feel are too far away at the moment.

I firmly believe Liverpool will drop off, they will certainly not get any more than 5 points from City, Chelsea and Cardiff. I also think that we will beat them, West Ham could also prove a struggle but Liverpool will beat them (Liverpool next 5 games = a generous 8 points) I think Arsenal will struggle against Chelsea and City, possible a couple of draws and it depends what Everton team turn up as to the outcome of that match, West Ham should roll over as will Newcastle I imagine (Arsenal next 5 games = 9 points)

Everton, in my opinion are going to collect a few points in December, however as I said about the Arsenal game, it depends on what Everton team turns up, They should beat Fulham and Sunderland at home but Swansea will be too much away, and I think they will hold Arsenal to a draw and be held by Southampton, although they could just as easily lose or win all of these games.. (Everton next 5 games = 8 points). I am not going to look at the City / Chelsea fixtures because I believe that they will have the quality to stay within the Top 4 and the same for Southampton and Newcastle, as I do not believe they have the quality to sustain a challenge for the top 4.

We have enough about us to see off Liverpool, Stoke and West Brom at home. I would be happy with 4 points from Southampton and Sunderland. Although I do think we can win all five of these fixtures, it does ultimately come down to the matter of how we are going to score the goals. (Tottenham next 5 games = 13 points) By January the 1st I expect that we should have around 37 points I expect that Arsenal will have around 42 points Liverpool will hit the 35 point mark (at most) for the new year Everton will also be starting 2014 around the 35 point mark. I am happy with that, it leaves us around 4th (depending on the City/Chelsea fixtures) but it also means that we have all of these teams to face again.

Looking at the table and the fixtures we have played I honestly see us finishing 3rd at, let's be honest, barely a canter. We are not playing well. Should the team begin to gel by January / February then we could see a fantastic string of wins. The City and West Ham results aside we have only conceded 6 goals, the defence look solid and Lloris is the best goalkeeper in the league, no debate. I think we will win the Europa League, put up a good show in the Capital One cup. Anything can happen in the FA Cup and I would prefer a Europa league win over that anyway.

A lot more football is to be played, the teams around us have to play each other and have some very difficult fixtures to boot. 3rd is achievable and alot of the fans are getting on AVB's back for no reason. We do need more strength at left back, I would like to see Kolarov brought in. Vertonghen can then shift over to Centre back with Dawson/Chriches beside him. AVB also needs to decide his strongest midfield and stick at it. COYS.

Written by Paddavis5




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The journalist

Writer: Paddavis5 Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday December 5 2013

Time: 7:44PM

Your Comments

it's not that bad
logos8
you do realise that this is wishful thinking? we have scored 13 goals, liverpool 30... yes they will drop points, but come on... if the predicting game would be so easy bookmakers would be out of business
logos8
bad part is the small games see us at our worst. The motivation isn't there.
trinispur04
top 4 looked to be ours last season and we lost it. this season we look weaker and the others look stronger. let's see what happens in January
logos8
Its all hypothetical and what will be will be.......nothing is simple in football and trying to predict who will win / drop points is well in fact pointless!!! Unless we play like we are playing United week in week out and not like we played against Fulham, City, West Ham, Newcastle etc etc we wont be anywhere near the likes of Liverpoo, Chavs, City etc. lets face facts, for the majority of this season we have been poor!! I thought after United it would have kicked started our season but last night showed that we again laboured to 3 points, albeit against a resurgent Fulham side
Whitehart Lad
Getting 4th was always going to be tough even if the right hairgel was applied. With floppy fringes very unlikely. Maybe with a new hairdryer?
Love totty
I agree but I also think it is hard to predict, Our next games can be winnable, keep Saurez quiet and we can beat Liverpool and be patient with Southampton can we can get three points. I think on our day even with our lack of goals we can be difficult to beat and if we can keep nicking a goal we can get three points. It is far too early to rule any of the teams out at the time. I think if Arsenal do well against Chelsea, City and Everton then I expect them to finish top four possibly third, but if they drop points and we pick up points then the pressures begin to go towards them again.

I still think Liverpool, Everton, Southampton will not run the whole season without having a dip in form. City and Chelsea will be top four, it is so close and by Feb we may well see a more settled side and more understanding. I do think our lads have the hunger to fight under AVB
WorldPeace
We have been so disappointing, however I do trust avb and his team to rectify it. It beggars belief that Andre is isn't busting his balls to correct parts of our play that are poor. Would like to see ade on the pitch, but for a player who isn't playing, he sure seems injured a lot. Would like to see lamela in the vdv position just behind the striker- we must try something to see the goals flowing
van der haart lane
At this present moment in time, Arse, Liverpool, Cheatski, and Citeh look most likely for the Top 4. Goal difference never lies I'm afraid and is almost always the best indicator of how good a team is. -2 for us says it all. This is a season of transition - we might be witnessing the start of something big, but it won't end in Top 4 this season. Maybe next.
TShill7
Love Lotty, Good one! Apt too!
Critical_Spur
Whilst an interesting article, being on Vital Spurs, it's bound be biased!. I'd love invite Chelsea, Arsenal, City, etc to debate this and bet they'd come up with totally different predictions. Nonetheless, IMO, we can't possibly get worse (can we?!). Therefore, things can only get better......now that we found Gel!
Critical_Spur
Agree critical.
bazdog
An article based on blind faith completely ignoring the bland, Euro style of football has us playing for the last season and a half. What makes you think we're going to beat Liverpool when we haven't beaten a decent team all season, no-one above us and no-immediately below us? Last decent team we came up against battered us 6-0. Gotta love the optimism - but sorry to say this is a long term "project". AVB does learn though, we're actually playing Lamela & Townsend on the left and Lennon on the right! And we actually kick the ball forwards from a kick off now! I think you're way off with your December predictions but we will there...one day!
TShill7
We will not beat Liverpool the way we are playing. That is not being downbeat, but reality is they are playing superbly and we are playing rubbish and we cannot score goals yet Suarez alone is outscoring our entire team.
vicspur
Good on ya Paddavis5 for the positivity but your relying on most of our competition to start struggling and us hitting real form,at present the roles are reversed and no indication that it is going to reverse, I don't want us to worry about what other teams are doing but focus on getting our own house in order.At present we are bogged down in a quantity over quality structure which hasn't gained any traction as yet,whether it will, well that is what most on here are debating daily.Over the course of the season the way we play will not get us the desired results consistently,thought we had seen the end of the tunnel after Sunday's game only to be shunted back in after watching yesterday's game.Call me negative but I've been watching,playing ,coaching football for nearly 50 years,long enough that sometimes I do see the wood for the trees,i'm no football genius but even I know something has to change(football wise).Hope ur right all the same.
sandroman
It's not that bad but had we lost to Fulham it would have been bloody awful. Now it continues on not knowing if this will be a disasterous or ok one season. I say ok one as even if we finish 3rd playing this sort of football can never be considered good*

The Liverpool match is a huge test, who have we done well against near the top, draw with Chelsea at home, is that what we want?? no. Need to beat Liverpool, should have beaten Utd.

*I'd be happy with first
T.H.F.Chris
I think we can only get better. But from what I can see from the team I could not pick our best 11 for a team, so not sure how AVB can tell his best side. We need to get a settled 11 and go from there. Always so many changes. I bet most could pick an 11 and it would differ each time. I hope yesterday gave Holtby a big boast and he kicks on from here. We need Ade and Rose fit too. The other two strikers can not play in the system AVB sets out and we need Rose to give better balance down the left side. Hopefully Jan is not out for too long. I think that I would rather see Townsend start at left back than put up with Naughton there again. I think if we can get a settled 11 we can get better.
nothappyharry
Wow, rose tinted specs or what? With the exception of the Utd and Chelsea games we have not been less than satisfactory and our table position deceives IMO. Our defence is a shambles most of the time lloris being our savior on more than one occasion. Dawson has had his time for me, his mistakes are now being highlighted by goals. Don't get me wrong I love his Mr Spurs attitude but he is also our defensive weakness and should only start on the bench. Defoe is our best striking option at present although he is showing rustiness from lack of play, Soldado is a £26 mill embarrassment. AVB has to many options in MF to be sure of his best options there with for me Sandro and latterly Lennon the only names a guaranteed to start. In saying this I have only ever predicted a top 8 finish this season and I can't see my opinion changing untill we fix the striking and LB issues. We won't win the Europa we haven't played anyone of substance yet. AVB is trying to find his best combination as a team and as we have seen he has tried different option, for me there is something missing maybe it's a Lampard, Gerrard or Toure type player I can't quite put my finger on the problem, any answers out there? In short, I have never expected any better, we are basicly a new team and AVB may as we'll be a new Manager with all the player changes. AVB needs more time, he is IMO the man for the job but he is like a kid at Christmas he has to many toys to play with and can't decide on his favorites. So for the rest of this season lets just get behind our beloved Spurs any thing else will just be iceing on a soggy cake!! COYS!!!!
Supayid
I don't really care how it is but for the 3pts. Yaay!!! COYS.
Arky
I don't care who we play or how we play so long as the 3pts keep accumulating. COYS.
Arky
I think the unlucky part of our signings has been that none of the newbies has taken the PL by storm. Had we just had a single outstanding performer the whole team would've gained confidence from him. Examples of immediate successes in PL include, Benteke, Suarez, Michu, Hazard, Ozil, etc. With Bale leaving, no one stepped up. It's like freshers at a Uni.
Critical_Spur
Over the past 40 years or so of attending Spurs games I have seen plenty plenty of glorious games where we lost - I have had enough of this I want to WIN - style will come in time until then 3 points ugly is fine with me…. I can't believe people would like to see us play pretty at the expense of 3 points … come on!!!
Highgatespur
Meanwhile, in the real world. We haven't beaten anyone above 10th - Tenth! Does that say anything to you? Also, the problems are not getting better. The problems are not to do with gelling; the players are playing together very well - it is the system that is broken. They are playing exactly how AVB wants them to: Slowly, cautiously: every time the ball is received, our player looks around maybe feigns a pass forward dithers a bit more (all part of the cautious approach) then makes a pass sideways. In contrast to this, under 'Arry (whom the AVB supporters hated with a passion despite getting 4th two years running) got his player to make a pass quickly. This was achievable because players moved to a position nearby. What usually followed was a 1-2 which was used to break down opposition. We have got the players to challenge but not the manager. I read someone justify our poor performance by talking about the 'new manager effect'. The irony!
Conan_the_Spur
* our poor performance against Fulham by talking how they benefitted from 'new manager effect' the irony!
Conan_the_Spur
To be fair Conan_the_Spur, this 'new manager effect' often refers to mid-season change, often where his predecessor was sacked!. AVB arrived at the end of a season and was allowed to disseminate a bulging squad and to rebuild. Just remember the 'new manager effect' at QPR last mid-season and now Championship footy!!!
Critical_Spur
Sorry, Conan, seems I got the wrong end of the stick!. I'll get my coat!. COYS!
Critical_Spur
Now that I understand the irony, but.....West Ham lost to Palace due to the 'new manager effect'. Does happen you know! :0)
Critical_Spur
Sunderland have just appointed a new toilet cleaner ... That's us *****ed.
muk"yid"ster
we are 7/2 with sky bet to get 4th,that is a massive price.i like the bookies think it may not be this year
ghulamville
Conan the Spur you are mistaken - I support Spurs managers come n go - we all need to support the club including the manager in place - not harp on about those who worked at the club in the past… should we get to a final this year esp. Wembley can I have your ticket please ?
Highgatespur
No, it is not that bad. We have a relatively new coach with a lot of new players and with the current position on the ladder, it is not that bad. It definitely isn't great because we were 20 minutes away from a relegation candidate and was playing so so only. I'm just going to go along for the ride and not stress too much about it. As long as AVB and the players gives it 100% or close to it, I'm contented.
Madaboutspurs
BriannaSBrock is abusing us. that sounded strange
logos8
Well, I love the predictions but, that's all they are, predictions. And the best thing about football is .. it's unpredictable. So, in a sense, the article is totally pointless. But, then again, a big part of the enjoyment of football is all the speculation and discussion that it generates. My prediction for Sunderland is Spurs to win 3-0. That is not based on logic or even common sense. I predict a 3-0 win for every game ... because that's what I WANT to see. What I can accurately predict is that I will be right or wrong!
Geofspurs
ghulamville the implied probability for those odds (without taking into account juice) is 22% chance of getting 4th spot. It is a little bit low. I would give us a 35% so there might be value on that bet :)
logos8
How many times do people say 'this game might kick-start our season'? What does that mean? Our season kick-starts in August. It does that every season. From then on, it is what it is. And every season will have its ups and its downs and everything else that is in the mix and, along the way, it will be difficult to see where its going ... but come May, we will be able to see where we've been and judge it all accordingly. Or something like that. lol
Geofspurs
Conan_the_Spur regarding the cautious approach, you might be right and it could be the manager but I am not sure, I am not a football expert. Some say that it's the moyes style too, that would explain why martinez got everton playing attacking football and why man utd are low in performances and in the table (to their standards). If that is the case with AVB then I am afraid the only solution would be if he changes this cautios style. Porto played some good football under him so there is still hope.
logos8
Football discussions do prove one point ... the heart CAN rule the head. Mine does when it comes to Spurs!
Geofspurs
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-manager-andre-villasboas-is-facing-crunch-month-after-talks-with-board-8985324.html
logos8
Love the optimism but I'd be happy with 5th if we can get it....and I think it will be a struggle based on current form. AVB frustrates me at times but I think we should give him the season to bed in new players and show us what the team can do. As much as I hate Le'Arse, I think this will be their season. I think they'll win, City 2nd, Chavs 3rd and poo 4th.
MalaysiaSpur
I wonder if this is true "It is said the board believe that given the £110million they spent in the summer, Spurs should be higher than sixth in the Premier League and playing more attractive football."
logos8
the article also says that AVB will have money to spend in January
logos8
MalaysiaSpur I couldn't have put it better, and even your top4 is identical to mine.
logos8
http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/sandro-e1386240185189.png
logos8
He should be the captain
logos8
I wish it were different logos8 and I hope we do better....fingers crossed!!
MalaysiaSpur
MalaysiaSpur ... I agree. I think Arsenal will be in the top four, but not sure who else at this stage alhough your 'predictions' do look likely.
Geofspurs
Logos8, The media can make up stories or twist the wording to suit, then cover themselves with "it is said", "they are told by a reliable source"....you know the drill!. Then they go and suggest more money will be made available?!!!....contradicts the first news?. Board are not happy but will throw more money?... Anyway, if AVB is offered more money for players then clearly he has the backing of the board. That'll do for me, as long as it is wisely spent. COYS!
Critical_Spur
@logos8 unless Arse slip up during the Xmas period, I really don't see them losing the top spot. I can't see any of the other 3 losing form either
MalaysiaSpur
Critical ... I agree. The main thing for me is that AVB and the players have a good relationship and support each other ... and the signs after the Fulham game suggest this is fine. I like AVB's style and really hope this all works out for him ... and us! Got to say, Arsenal are nice to watch at the moment ...sadly!!
Geofspurs
Afternoon gents / ladies. The reason why the EPL is the most popular sporting competition in the world is because of its unpredictability. I appreciate Padda's article, but this season more than ever guessing expected points tally's is madness.
What I will say, is that every point will count. I could easily see 67 or 68 points being enough to get into the top 4 this year.
thenuge
It is said that AVB may or may not have seven games to save his Spurs career. A very reliable source has been quoted as saying that AVB may be our manager next year, or he may not be. FACT
In-spurs-ational
R.I.P. Nelson Mandela!
Geofspurs
Two seasons back Harry Redknapp got THFC into an end of season CL spot for the second time in his 3 full seasons at the club. Many on here said it was not good enough, that Harry should be replaced by a higher level coach, who could seriously make a challenge for the title, not just the top 4! Well they have had their wish! Harry has gone and we are all now debating whether or not his replacement can make the top four, and the majority seem to think it is not likely? What happened? Why? Arsenal on the other hand despite 8 years of underachievement without a single trophy during a period of huge debt because of the huge risk their owners took by funding the vast majority of their new new stadium from a Royal Bank of Scotland bank loan, that forced the clubs owners to sell many of their star players to cover the debt, have maintained top 4 status for 16 seasons on the spin... Why? Better coach? Better players? Better luck? Or better owners and board of directors? Success starts at the top and I firmly believe that the current owners of our club, Joe Lewis (majority share holder) the Tory MP, and Daniel Levy who are worth a combined 4.5 billion personal fortune are not up to the task of bringing us the Premiership Title! Which of course is not a problem if your happy to debate season after season if we will make the CL or not, or if we can perhaps win the Europa or not? But if you really want to see your team challenge for the Premiership title as the Arsenal fans are witnessing right now... then ENIC are not the mob, I'm afraid to say...
Pele10
If we finally pick up form and go on a decent run we might just about do enough to pip the rest to 4th place. Really cant see us any higher then that this season. TBH I think what we are seeing now is probably how we will continue.
WestStandEnclosure
logos4 – We don’t look weaker this season at all. Take a snap shot of this time last year we were on 23 points, this year we have 24points. The teams that were above us this time last year were in fact Uinted, City, Chelsea and West Brom (WB sitting on 26 points just above us). Only 2 of those 4 teams are currently above us, Chelsea and City (City being on the same points as WB last year 26, while last year they had 32points). So this proves the others do not look stronger either. You say top4 looked ours? How could you predict that then? We were not in the top4 this time last year either? I would say we look stronger this year and use the above to back that up. We haven’t converted as many chances, but we have conceded fewer. That’s the main difference so get behind the team and stop making sweeping statements with no merit. COYS.
SpursOne2
City looking are on 28 points which is still less than this time last year
SpursOne2
Even Chelsea are 4 points off their tally from last year
SpursOne2
The only thing that counts is our position at the end of the year...in order to get top4 we have to be better than 16 other teams. The table at the moment shows we are better than 14 other teams therefore we must improve and others must drop off...so if we must improve it stands to reason that people are saying so...whether to describe this as getting on AVB's back is debatable.
shedboy2
I thought at the seasons start that top four might be beyond us, and I've seen nothing to change that view. That isn't simply blind pessmism, it's just based on my own opinion that there are (at least) four better teams than us in our division. Also, despite my very real reservations about his tactics and suitability, I can't bring myself to agree with getting rid of AVB mid-season. In times of (mini) crisis, solidarity is a real weapon. And if what we're hearing from Holtby and one or two others is true, then let's see his players play for him and see where we end up at the end of the season. My overriding feeling though is that even if we start to hit form over/after Christmas, we will probably end up in the same league position we currently hold. The unfortunate truth is that the other title/top-four contenders have more settled teams and squads, and above all a much better array of attacking options than we currently possess. Maybe a striker and a left-back in January will prove me wrong, and God knows I hope so. But I'm pretty close to writing our league campaign off this term and looking more towards our cup progress both domestically and continentally and bringing some silverware back to the Lane. Next year, whether it's with a new manager or not, I'll be far more optimistic about our chances in the league. Because this squad is very capable of flight, it just needs a manager to realise the wings are as important as the engines. And by that stage either AVB will have recognised this, or we will have brought in a new manager who does. Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
Looking ahead at who is going to drop points in this league is why bookmakers take football bets. All we can do is look to the next game and that's Sunderland away on Saturday evening and hope we come away with all 3pts, that's all I want at this present moment.
spu 4 life
we finished 5th last season in the weakest prem in memory at the top end (everybody in the game agreed to that), we spent over 100 million on new players, everybody on here and in football agreed our squad was stronger this season after the outs and ins. why would we accept 6th? 4th must be achievable and we must aim for that and stick with it until it is not possible, ideally this wont happen. If we but 1 forward in Jan plus a good left back, it would be even more achievable. Not easy but very possible.
tophobunty1882
This is just mad, there is no way that you look like a top 3 team, this is not slagging or winding you up its just a statement of fact!

If we're really honest Spurs haven't had one impressive 90 minute performance in the league all season and yet you think you are good enough for 3rd?? Come on guys there has to be some level of sanity surely. If you are going to do a prediction piece at least base it on some level of prediction other than the whole "when we gel we will be unstoppable" argument. Shouldn't things like form both as a team and as individuals, defensive resoluteness and maybe goal scoring ability count for something?

I support my team and always hope for the best but should I be confident that we can go to City and win, disregarding all their home form purely because I'd like us to get 3 points?

Your form against the good teams doesn't show that you have enough about you to see off Liverpool, they are a better team than you. They have scored 17 more goals and conceded only 2 more and yet you are just dismissing them. Southampton are a good side as are West Brom. Sunderland is away will be a real test (they ran Chelsea very close remember) and even Stoke at home will be difficult to break down, not exactly your strong point remember!

13 points from these 5 games is league winning form and while of course it's not impossible recent form and performance levels would suggest otherwise.

Galway Gooner
Gooner this isn't vital arsenal, we don't care what you want with your games
SpursOne2
Still lost though is see?
SpursOne2
Finishing in the top 4 is still very much on, we are still in the mix. We should at least be fighting for a top 4 finish and still be in the hunt come the end of the season. Last year might have been a weak league but includes us as well so we were weak with all the other weak teams. Having spent £100m we should look to improve our position but it is not a given. Man City spent £91m, Chelsea £61m, Arsenal £42m, Man U £30m, these all finished above us last season so were better, it is a tough league.
Kong
Galway, a very good post as usual. I am not too sure anyone is saying we are a top 3 side are they? If i am missing that sorry, i only scanned the article. We certainly are not as attractive a watch as liverpool, but we dont have Suarez. They didnt look that good against you and I dont think that was one of your better games either, their manager made mistakes and set the up badly against you and they played poorly as a result. Now that is something we might have in common with them. We will find out soon who might be better and if we play Dawson against Suarez and I not sure it will be us. It's reasonable for us to aim for 4th and possible we could get it. So much depends on our manager improving, I am not too confident there, but it's possible. Plus if (IF) can we strengthen better in January than say Liverpool or Man United, then the chances increase. We can also take an injury to any one key player better than Liverpool if it was Suarez. So in my eyes it largely comes down to how AVB can improve.
tophobunty1882
Can't disagree with the majority of your post Galway. As always, fair but critical without just being argumentative for the sake of it. The only thing I'd say is that it's an incredibly low percentage of Spurs fans who believe that we are anywhere near being a top 3 team this season. I do believe man-for-man we have the squad to compete with just about anyone. But that hasn't shown on the field so far, which I maintain is due to a lack of flexibility and tactical nous on the part of our current manager. We have Eriksen and Rose to come back which could/should balance us out a little better, but barring fresh blood in January I struggle to mount an argument for us finishing top four. My only hope is that we can keep our squad intact however we/they have to ride out the current season. As I do reckon with a solid year under their belts playing together under a mangager who plays them to their strengths (whether that's a new man, or a drastic U-turn from AVB), we can seriously challenge next season. Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
Top - "I honestly see us finishing 3rd at a canter", taken from the article.

I fancy you to take 4th place, Liverpool are really a one man team (in fairness some man!) but their overall squad is pretty poor and I was very unimpressed with them when they played us, their midfield is really average. If Suarez can keep this form up they you may be in trouble because all they have to be is average all over the park if he can continue to play at this level. Depending on how things in Spain are going he might get unsettled in Jan.

I wouldn't disregard Everton either, good manager playing some good football with a real belief among the team.

I do think that the fight for 4th place will be as tight as the fight positions 1-3 but I also believe that there will be a bit of a gap between teams 1-3 and teams 4-7.

You strengthening in Jan will be tough, very few good players are available in Jan and its always a risk hoping they fit in, also will the board give more money to AVB?? I think they you will hold with what you have and like us will maybe have to rely on loan deals.

Galway Gooner
Galway, yes I saw that line in the article after I posted to you, getting my articles mixed up today.....and yes how world class is Suarez....i dont actually think I like watching any other player in the world more than him and that inclused Messi and Ronaldo. True about Everton and I do think they have a better manager than us, he was my first choice when HRH packed up his stall and left. That gap could develop you mention. January I fancy us having another punt for Benteke, it seems to me he really doesnt want to be where he is and after that early injury just hasnt come back.....but again I think your are correct, never easy the Jan market, somehow we need to make it work for us...of make Ade work for us. Personaly would take Berba back regardless of getting a top forward or not. I still struggle to see Soldado making in the prem with us. Love to have that feeling proved wrong.
tophobunty1882
SpursOne8 I don't think there is any pundit our there that considers that spurs are stronger than last season. On paper yes. Squad depth, yes. Performances, no. In the meantime while we are not playing as well and convincing as in the past, teams like arsenal, liverpool and even everton have improved their game scoring more goals than us. I hope we become stronger and perform better than them, but so far we haven't, that was my point, and it's quite interesting that you think this is not true.
logos8
logo8- I have backed up my reasons, it’s clear we are not weaker. It’s not a case to agree to disagree when my reasons are correct. So you are wrong on this one, accept or do not, it doesn’t make a difference to me. Some of our performances this season so far have been great, not all of course. Same as this time last year, there were good and bad. So what is you point? You hope we become stronger. Good. That’s positive at least. I think consistency is key, keep conceding less but we have to score more. COYS.
SpursOne2
Don't know about Benteke Top, not overly impressed with him at all this season, know he's had an injury or two but I think he's only got 4 goals (?) two of which were penalties against us in the opening game of the season (Bast$$d). He certainly has the potential but I get the feeling that he'll drop whoever he plays for if someone bigger comes along.

Ade is an interesting one, frustrating player - I think when he was about 24-25 and had that one amazing season for us where he simply dominated defences he had it in him to become really world class, as good as Drogba but unfortunately he never had the work rate, commitment or will to win that Drogba had so his career is more of a "what if" for me. I do think he could do a job for you (better than Defoe and maybe Soldalgo) but AVB doesn't seem to like him. Which is fair enough but I don't like everyone I work with and I'm pretty sure that they don't all like me, I still have to work with them!

Berba on loan would be a real option, still a good player, can play with his back to goal and similar creatively to Giroud in that he brings players into the game. You desperately need someone up front who can hold the ball long enough to allow your over cautious midfield to get forward. If there was any chance I think he'd be a good loan signing for you.

Galway Gooner
spursone2 I think you are wrong on this one. and 80% of the pundits who have watched us play would think the same.
logos8
Galway i didnt actually say "I honestly see us finishing 3rd at a canter" I am all for debate but please do not put words in my mouth. I said I can honestly see us finsihing 3rd, I really can - that is my opinion, and if we do then it will have been at a canter because we are not playing well (and as we have not been playing well we have not been playing to our potential) That is what I said, please do not twist my words to fit in with your argument.
Paddavis5
You have nothing to back that up. So what ever you say. Couldn't give a monkeys about pundits im talking to you, about a post you placed here on this forum which is incorrect. Look at my post and try reading it. I give you the facts to help, not my fault if you choose to ignore them
SpursOne2
one2 read what you and logos are saying again mate, he has this the way it is, we clearly are not stronger in terms of how we are playing, we are stronger in terms of the squad we have...every single pundit out there has been saying " i really thought spurs would be doing much better" you could get rich on a tenner every time you hear that said the last month... Logos post is correct monkeys and all...
tophobunty1882
"Looking at the table and the fixtures we have played I honestly see us finishing 3rd at, let's be honest, barely a canter." Paddaiv5 - not putting any words into your mouth, quote above direct from second to last paragraph. Maybe my grasping on English mightn't be the best but to me it's pretty clear what you said.
Galway Gooner
SpursOne2 I have already told you that we have played poorly in many of our matches. All the other teams are scoring twice more goals than us. How that makes us stronger I don't know. Your facts are irrelevant. It is an incorrect approach to compare the points from last season when all the other teams are playing different than last season. Just look at goals and at how we are playing. Look at how many goals Liverpool and Everton are scoring compared to us. Look at how they are playing. Are you really suggesting that so far we have been stronger than them? Yes I want us to finish above them because they will all drop points eventually, but that still does not mean that so far we have been stronger. You are either naive in your judgement or you are just pulling numbers to back up your biased statement, but those numbers are irrelevant. Look at goals scored, look at goal difference... this season... the past is history and it's irrelevant because there is a tottaly different context now.
logos8
topho - I have read what he said, its clear that i have. Cheers.
SpursOne2
Logos8 - Its nothing personal against you. I have heard it told that they had to remove all the mirrors from SpursOne2's house as he kept arguing with his reflection.

;-)

Galway Gooner
logo8 - Cant hold your hand on this one. We are not weaker, the other are not stronger. A few are, including us and the woolich lot so far plus pool. None of those were in the top4 this time last year. The teams above are in fact weaker so far. Now that is 3 times Ive had to explain you are wrong. Shall we try for a 4th?
SpursOne2
you clearly dont understand something then one2 because he is so obviously correct in what he is saying and its backed up all over the media by public opinion. Comparing points to last season as a measurement at this stage of the season is debatable, i dont think it's valied unless you fact in who we have played and how each team we have played are better or worse than last season, plus luck. one the we are playing better issue, no way, we have regressed in this way.
tophobunty1882
Galway that time you quoted me corectly, the frst time you didt and by taking that line out of context it mis-quotes me. I didn't say it to reflect hat we are playing amazing and havent even hit 5th gear yet. I said it because we have been playing poorly but the other teams around us have got some difficult games coming up and from January, we have a definite chance to go on and ensure we secure a top 3 finish. Really, if you have got nothing better to do I suggest you go back over to vital Arsenal.
Paddavis5
gooner - You don't know mes so don't ******** talk to me like that. Do you understand?
SpursOne2
Spurs forum, not your house so go away
SpursOne2
Our goal difference, even without the Man City debacle, is completely indicative of our season so far. Pedestrian, unattractive performances meaning we've been left trying to pick a lock with a rolling pin. Let's say we'd only lost 2-0 or 3-1 at the Etihad. That would leave us in the same position with a +/- 0 goal difference. Now, for a team with any real aspirations that really is poor. There are arguments for and against our squad being better on paper than it was this time last season. Bale was irreplaceable. But selling Caulker and letting Benny go were questionable at the time and have proved to be very foolish moves indeed. I must say Logos8, I find myself agreeing with a lot of your posts. I'll keep reading with interest mate. Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
SpursOne2 have you even watched the games in the EPL this season or are you just watching the points in the table? :)
logos8
topho - I understand perfectly well ty. Hes wrong. COYS.
SpursOne2
logo8 - I go to games and watch spurs. I use my own brain and do not choose to ignore facts. Try using yours :-)
SpursOne2
Don't get me wrong, I am not a pessimist. I actually believe that these new guys we have can become a winning trophies team. All I am saying is that so far we haven't clicked much of the time on the pitch. They play most of the time like a bunch of strangers, but the table will not tell you that. Performances tell a different story than the points in the table.
logos8
Galway - Don't be put off by a minority. I for one always read your posts and haven't found a single reason to find fault in your contributions. There's onbviously a little bias there, just as there is with all of us here. But it's always tempered with fairness, and an obvious love and understanding of the game. Always welcome as far as I'm concerned mate. Having said that, come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
For a start I haven't mis-quoted you. A quote is a quote regardless of context so to accuse me of mis-quoting you is simply incorrect.

How so have I taken it out of context? The theme of your piece to me seems to be very much that things aren't that bad and that you should still finish 3rd and win the Europa league. Based on current results, performance, attack and defence I don't think that will happen.

Have I got the theme of the piece completely wrong? Or are you now adopting the SpursOne2 approach to debating (continue to shout down all those who disagree with you before telling them to just go away)?

Galway Gooner
spurone2 but you are ignoring the most important facts in football. goals. how many goals have we scored from inside the box from open play? how many goals are we scoring compared to the other teams? thank you for your adivce, I will not take it as an insult.
logos8
don't go on about goals in open play to me. My post was in reference to yours that we are weaker and the other teams stronger. We can keep going around in circles. We have conceded less but scored fewer. Yes we need to score more but we are not weaker. One more time? COYS.
SpursOne2
Go away gooner, stop talking about me like you know me. This is a Spurs forum you troll. Get a life. COYS.
SpursOne2
logos8 - That's good because i am not insulting you. Just wanted to state some facts about your incorrect post, i wont try and help you in the future. Noted. COYS.
SpursOne2
Lily - no problem, I only come on here for the debate and while there is a natural bias (like I always hope we win and always hope you lose) I don't hate anyone of you simply because you support a different team and find the vast majority on here to be intelligent lovers of the game.

There are of course, always exceptions!

Galway Gooner
You come here to troll, and lie about your intentions also. COYS
SpursOne2
I would feel sorry for you..oh no wait, i wouldn't. COYS
SpursOne2
One 2 is correct the squad, even the team is stronger than last year without doubt, but logo is also correct that the performances have been below par.
Ossie
ossie thats it mate...well said
tophobunty1882
we are scoring 0.93 goals per game while others are scoring an average of at least 2 per game (excluding everton who have only 1.57). Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City have conceded less goals than us. Besides everton all have scored at least twice more than us, but everton still have scored 9 more goals than us and are playing far more convincing attacking football than us. I rest my case.
logos8
Galway - when you posted that I had said "I honestly see us finishing 3rd at a canter", That is misquoting me because that isnt what I said. I also explained after (and for the third time now) that this was because we havent been playing well. So you have misquoted me. I did not write "I honestly see us finishing 3rd at a canter" That is a fact. No discussion about it, and as for taking it out of context, by missing off at the end my reasoning for the "canter" remark you are taking it out of context because you are stating that I think we will walk into third without any effort, when actually I am stating the opposite. I am not shouting down all those who disagree with me, thss article has had about 70 odd responses, with a number not agreeing with me, i have no problem with people that have different views. One of my favourite things about football is the debate an everyone has an opinion, this piece was simply something I wanted to say, and is a reflection of how I feel. Please do not mis-quote me, or accuse me of then shouting you down because you dis-agree with me, I do not care that you disagree with me, I actually thought your post was good and had valid points. The only thing I was unhappy with was that you misquoted me, which, I am afraid you did.
Paddavis5
Ossie I have said also that on paper we are stronger and our depth in squad is stronger, I was saying just about the performances. But I blame it on the gel, I have faith that this lot can accomplish great things in the future.
logos8
I forgot to mention that even though Liverpool have conceded 2 more goals than us, they have scored 30 goals compared to our modest 13.
logos8
Even Chateau Nouveau have scored more than us and conceded less . (Southampton)
logos8
Padd- missed that in my first post, apologies!

I did correct it the second time I quoted you however. And for the record I didn't accuse you of shouting you down and if that's the way it came across well it wasn't intended.

Galway Gooner
Logo, we have no choice but to hope all will come good.
Ossie
Ossie - Hope is probably the only common denominator amongst every post from every Spurs in this forums history haha!!! Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
4real Lily!!
Ossie
13 points from the next 5 games ? The way this team is playing they'll be lucky to get 7 or 8. And 6-0 is not an 'off day', it's a massacre. Admire your optimism though, so dream on.
willmacb
Paddavis5 - I think we all know who Galway was referring to with his 'shouting down' comment, and it most certainly wasn't you mate. Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
Yawn
SpursOne2
……NO!
MAN ON!
 

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