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What do the fans know?

An interesting story has been published today in relation to West Brom's search for new manager following the sacking of Steve Clarke.

The club issued a poll to it's fans asking for guidance in picking the new man to take them forward and interestingly, it wasn't Gianfranco Zola, Martin Jol, Ole Solskjaer or any of the other names regarded as 'favourites'. The West Brom fans picked Ralf Rangnick, formerly manager of Schalke and current Sporting Director at RB Salzburg and RB Leipzig.

A surprising pick but an astute one. Rangnick was the man at the helm during Schalke's run to the Semi-Finals of the Champions League in 2011, picking up the DFP Pokal (German equivalent to the FA Cup) in the same year. This for me shows that while supporters are frequently regarded collectively as impulsive, unrealistic and naive...the reality is that given the chance, we can be a usefull resource for the club.

James Surowiecki's book - The Wisdom of Crowds explains the ideal behind the theory that many are smarter than few and that given the chance, a large collection of people will tend to follow the correct path more frequently than a single person would. ENIC took control of Tottenham Hotspur in 2001 and in that time - via the guidance of Daniel Levy - have appointed 6 full time managers with varying success.

Each of said managers was brought in with great expectations but each tenure ultimately ended prematurely and more often than not, rather acrimoniously. Of these 6 managers, how many would have been the 'fans pick'? - Glenn Hoddle - Jaques Santini - Martin Jol - Juande Ramos - Harry Redknapp - Andre Villas-Boas You could argue that Glenn Hoddle was brought in to get the fans onside after the initial takeover, given his history with the club but I recall at the time hoping for a bigger name and if possible, someone without controversial opinions on the disabled and/or affiliations with 'faith healers'!!

ENIC, and in particular Daniel Levy have done an awful lot for this club. I remember the awful 90's Tottenham where Ronnie Rosenthal was considered a great signing and finishing in the top half was considered a job well done. That seems so far away know and we only have the current owners to thank for that. However, I believe when it comes to appointing managers we don't have the proficiency to identify the right man for the job - let alone appoint them!

The papers and bookies tend to have the inside track on these things and so far the names being touted are Fabio Capello, Michael Laudrup, Glenn Hoddle and Tim Sherwood. Admittedly, it's possible that we have our own, secret agenda and the media and bookmakers are well off...but I doubt it. Despite names such as Luis Van Gaal, Frank Rijkaard (my personal choice), Juup Heynckes, Marcel Bielsa, and Torsten Fink currently sitting without work. Do we believe that collectively, we as fans could come up with a better candidate than those currently considered frontrunners or is general consensus correct - we really don't have a clue...??

Written by KierzoSBC




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The journalist

Writer: KierzoSBC Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday December 17 2013

Time: 7:00PM

Your Comments

I think that is it incredibly important for us not to forget what ENIC has done for our beloved club. In the 12 years they have been at the helm, there has been a remarkable turn around in our fortunes. They have invested heavily and have remained forthcoming in demanding the Tottenham way from the managers they employ. Recruiting from within for the short term atleast is a good idea, getting people around the players who know the club through and through is very important to get stability and improving results. I for one am fully behind Sherwood and this step that ENIC have taken.
Lady Tottingham
I certainly don't have a clue…..
MAN ON!
Lady Tottingham=Donna Cullen ?
Arky
@Arky... Haha i wish, i'm just a huge tottenham fan. Runs in my veins!
Lady Tottingham
Man On, yes you do. Its Tottenham till I die, I'm Tottenham till I die, I know I am, I am sure I am Tottenham till I die!!! Hehe, that's what I know.
Arky
Arky… Haha, and Spurs will be the death of me!
MAN ON!
I personally hope Sherwood gets a decent chance before making any rash choice of manager. Lots of positives with him...knows the club; the philosophy; knows the youth players with real potential; knows the English game; turned down other managerial roles presumably waiting for this chance so has ambition; was part of the decision making team in terms of transfers so should be happy with the current squad and is familiar enough with that squad to already know where it's strengths lie. Only real negative, although admittedly a biggie, is his lack of experience...but every good manager has to start somewhere and where better than at a club you already know inside and out. And obviously the club can still look at other options in the meantime as a back up plan.
flipper
Really for the interim, we have no choice now, do we ?
Arky
http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2013/12/17/5220854/brad-friedel-andre-villas-boas?

Quotes from Friedel:

I think all the players in the changing room really wanted things to work out for Andre. From day one that he came to the club, open door policy, very good communication with the players. None of us were happy to see him go.

We still have to continue to have a very good team spirit, which I know we will. We have a lot of quality in the changing room. I'm sure the board are going to be hiring a very good manager to take us forward, who the players will all be behind again, because, at the end of the day, we are employed by Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, not by the manager they're bringing in. We just have to try to adhere to all of his ideas and try to get results for the football club.
coopsieyid
What do the fans know? Well not the actual internal dealings within the club, but what we do know is we are on our 14th manager since wenger has been in charge, we have one of the most highest turnover of players in prem history, we will sell our best talents if the price is right (whether they want to stay or go), Levy is ruthless and gives ample time for progress, we are unlucky as $hit, chelsea winning the cl and lasagna gate being to prime examples.
spurfect one
More in tune with this article, i think the Hoddle calls are ludicrous, yes he talks a good game but so do many others, loved him as a player, but sentiment aside, do you really believe in your heart of hearts that he will be a major success?
spurfect one
Another deluded individual who thinks Enic has done a good job, yet the facts contradict this. They increased capacity by 70 seats, and continue to lock out thousands, for years, thus denying the club the buying power, and still NOT BUILDING A STADIUM, having promised to do so in 2001. Why do people think we have great owners? It is baffling to anyone who wants Tottenham to be as they once were, with a stadium to match any other club, rather than half the size. If the Woolwich could do it all those years ago, Levy & Co have no excuse. Those of you who still back them are just sycophants. As for on-field success, that is just as bad under ENIC, and any managerial policy is a laughing stock.
5thcolumnist
spurfect one, who have we sold that did not want to go and was not surplus? COYS
peterballb
Laudrup for me. Buyout clause in his contract. PL experience and has won in the PL as a manager.

There is no doubt ENIC have done a very good job off the field. Ironically, I believe they are rightly being patient and methodical with the Stadium build so as not to affect the product on the field and to be able to continue to build a stadium worthy of a top club, yet they refuse to be patient with the managers that need time and support to bring forth their visions to build a club capable of winning things and filling a stadium worthy of a top club. I laud what they have done off the field and lament every time they get involved in what goes on on the pitch. Laudrup for me, if you please. COYS
peterballb
Peterball, my point is Levy will sell if he sees a nice profit whether it is detrimental to the footballing side of things or not. I agree with Frank, He is a great bean counter, but in 12 years of Enic i have yet to see any real football knowledge come from our chairman, he now needs to let Baldini arrange the new manager and let him control all things football while Levy should do what most chairman do, run the business side of things, Levy actually likes buying his own players he likes, says it all, BTW, i'm not a levy hater, but something is clearly not working with his on field decisions.
spurfect one
I've no idea really, especially when it comes to anybody who is actually gettable. I do know who I don't want though. I suppose it's a start.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Laudrup & Levy, hmm, based on past history, Laudrup will walk in another 18 moths after more meddling by Levy in football matters or Laudrup not getting along with Baldini. Playing the devi'ls advocate here.
Arky
I would be happy with laudrup, rijkaard, de boer. I am not too enthralled with the notion of giving sherwood the job long term, I think we have too many players who might look to leave if we don't bring in an established name. I don't think AVB had lost the dressing room at all, the way we played against pool might suggest that the players new the writing was on the wall for AVB and were not too happy about it, who knows. Lets see what Sherwood can do tomorrow, its important we stay in these competitions with a large squad to please in a world cup year
Guernman
The fans will know something, 24hours from now.
Arky
Peter- someone must have picked up on our conversation this is uncanny....!
shedboy2
5thC ======= JUST ANOTHER ENIC BASHER? You statement about ENIC haven't done any good for our club. "as for on-field success" ?????????? Before ENIC we were at best a mid-table club who "might do well in a cup comp!". We still are a team that "might do well in a cup comp" but we are NOW regularly in the top 6 of the table and have had regular European competition participation. I am, as my name suggests, a supporter of long standing, since the mid 50s and we have never, to my memory, ever regularly, year on year, been competing in continental tournaments. I cannot remember a better squad of players than the current one or the club ever having been worth as much money. Yes it is owned by ENIC and the profits will be theirs when they do sell but they invested their money in the club and, as a business acquisition, are entitled to run the project as they see fit. Sadly for us fans it isn't always as we would like. ................ All In My Humble sycophantic Opinion. P.S. Although I have eaten and enjoyed frogs-legs, even snails, I can't say I've actually eaten any toads.
longtimespur
shedboy2, the funny thing is, if we had been asked before AVB, there is no way he would have been named manager. Rodgers, Martinez, Rijkaard, Laudrup, Moyes were all way ahead of him in terms of popularity at the time. Even Lambert, Coyle and a few others would have been up there ahead of him. He was not, for the record, on any of my short lists. That said, I could see and appreciate where AVB was trying to get this team. 5 more months. Oh well, start again. COYS
peterballb
longtimespur, surely you have had "toad in a hole". Agree with all you say. Further, for 1B GBP, any one of us could run THFC the way we please. That is an offer that ENIC would be foolish to turn down. COYS
peterballb
No doubt about it Levy and Enic have been good to us in a monetary sense, the worrying thing is the inability of Levy to get on with his managers and his inability to let them manage the way they want, we have already seen this with Hoddle and Redknapp, not too mention how shabbily Jol was treated, and if the rumours are true and i quote "Levy and AVB never had a dynamic relationship"
spurfect one
mmmm Toad in the hole
Cleveland ARTSPURS
I do think Sherwood deserves the short term job for 2 reasons 1) It will be great experience for him and if it works out, who knows?? 2) It gives Levy time to conduct "due diligence" on some of the big names involved to give us a better chance of a good appointment. AVB was always a big mistake and never good enough to fill Arry's boots - in fact as proved on Sunday his tactics were totally flawed.
Aribak
The idea that the best choices come from the crowd seems a bit odd given the political leadership in the U.K., the U.S., etc. Do we really think that we couldn't do better than the current U.K. government? Or George Bush or Obama in the U.S.? Or Berlusconi in Italy or Sarkozy in France? On and on and on with bad leaders and bad policies chosen by the crowd. Whose to say the Romans wouldn't have elected Caligula, who was incredibly popular early in his reign. (OK, it was after the madman, Tiberius, but from frying pan to fire, as Granny would say.) No wonder Plato argued against democracy and in favor of a DoF. That being said, look at the team the philosophers fielded in Monty Python. Only Socrates was any good (and he was a good footballer in Brasil as well as a fighter against the dictators). Picking a manager for a club is as iffy as picking a mate for life. It's all down to luck, mates. It's all down to luck. And the divorce rate is about 50% in the industrialized world. Marriages last only marginally longer than Spurs managers.
Report Abuse
And we've done better under ENIC than under Sugar, and better under Sugar than...
Report Abuse
peterballb ... lol nice as it is especially with Lincolnshire sausages, it doesn't quite have the same panache does it? Although it does fill you up.
longtimespur
Re fans giving opinions as to the manager I think there is some weight in asking.

I think the sentence about how much Enic and Levy have done for this club is interesting as I was thinking about this today and was going to attempt to write an article but decided not to as am no article writer lol.

I was thinking into response to some fans on here saying Levy and Enic out. There is always some fans that feel Levy makes a lot of mistakes and that he makes money rather than give the manager more to spend. I think people forget that is that not what he is here to do?.

People forget that Levy is a business man and so his footballing knowledge is limited. Some will say let the manager and those know what they are talking about do the football and for him to get on with the stadium and so forth.

As I see it that is silly and unrealsitic. The problem is how many managers have made the wrong call. Mangers spending over the odds on a player that have been a flop, managers make mistakes.

We have to remember that Enic and co have invested in us as a business. How many people are there out there that can and will do that? How many people invest in a business and then say here is a load of money I trust you to buy whatever you need? The problem is those who are successful in business are the ones that are hands on, the ones that trust no one imo. I think it is short sighted to trust any manager to spend their money. Even those who are seen as the best make mistakes, and it can cost the owners millions.

So people will say well sell and let an investor take us over, but the point is that doesn't mean someone will come in and give loads of money and say do as you please. Look at Chelsea, Roman I think still as a say to certain degree. Do we not think it is unrealistic for someone to take over a football club and give loads of money and have no say as to how it is spent. Would any of us do it? Even if we invested in a small business we still would find it hard to just give money to someone and not have a say how it is spent. We are human and we all have a tendency to want something back or at least have some say.

Levy is Enic man who to a certain degree trust, but you can bet if they are not happy with the return they are getting they will either pull the plug or start to have more of a say. So as I see it levy does his best to develop the club, expand it and also keep the owners happy. That is a tall order.

So Levy is bound to want to have a say how the money is spent, can he trust any manager? It is so hard to trust anyone no matter how good they are at their job, no body is perfect and people make mistakes.

Back to levy decision making, of course he will make wrong appointments, he is a business man not a footballing man although I think he knows more than some board members at other clubs and he is a Spurs fan so I have no doubt while he is trying to make profit for the owners investment which is not unreasonable, people who invest in a business expect a profit, why should football be any different. At the same time he is trying to accumulate extra money to improve us.

So as I see it for those calling for Levy and Enic to go I think may be the bigger picture needs to be seen. Look at Chelsea investment and didn't Roman fall out with Mourinho due to who was making decisions. Unless a owner really is not bothered about taking a huge risk they will want some say in matters or employ someone who will do that for them. I just don't know many investors that would want to take a risk and say here you go spend it how you like, I trust you.

From what I have seen a lot of managers make lots of mistakes when it comes to transfers, losing millions. I wouldd't trust anyone.

Levy is doing his best and until Enic decide to sell and if they are happy with the return why should they? then we have to continue knowing that Levy is a business man and stop giving him a hard time when he makes a wrong footballing decision because all said and done I am sure the decisions he makes he genuinely feels it is for the best of the club.
WorldPeace
Spurfect one - don't think levy had a dynamic relationship with ANY of his managers. I cannot even begin to compare him with my favourite chairman, dave whelan, such a charismatic, friendly, down to earth and humble man, who thinks the world of his managers and won't hire them with the notion to fire them at the first sign of upheavel.
neymar
My God, WorldPeace, you say you are not an article writer, but a majority of your posts are articles. Go for it, start submitting some articles. You've already got the length.
Report Abuse
Regarding a new manager. Well I am assuming if Levy has some candidates it is likely to take a week or so to get them in place especially if they are already at a club, permission to speak to them, compensation then contract and so forth.

So as I see it the next two PL games will probably show us what Sherwood and co can do and where we stand regarding any possibility of top four. We lose the next two games then it is more likely to be over for us we win and others drop points who knows.

So I say see how it goes and if it appears after next week we are out of the run then may be we can keep Sherwood on until end of season or bring in Hoddle to end of the season.

however, if Levy has possible replacement long term then continue with enquiries and if we are still in it after next week then if the candidate is suitable then bring him in to see what he can do. I guess it depends on who Levy has in mind and if they are available and the circumstances of their contract.
WorldPeace
Sunderland equalised against Chelsea just shows you no easy games.
WorldPeace
It is my wholehearted belief that the fans on VS Spurs could do a hell of a lot better than Daniel Levy ever could in naming a new Manager for the club. His record is to say the least "the pitts".
jvd
I am of the opinion that this interim idea should be VERY short term. Unless we have a worthy candidate who can help maintain q respectable standard this season, things are likely to get a lot more messy. A reminder that this is the world cup season. All our international players (from the qualifying countries) have aspirations to be in Brazil. Already they have seen their positions in their respective squads being threatened, their game being affected by the AVB style, some (e.g., Lamela) not even given a run of games. Now under an interim manager starts another style, another approach. And assuming another permanent manager further down, the cycle starts again. There is little precious time left for Spurs to salvage something from this nightmare. The same applies to players. If things do not pan out right, then there will be many unhappy players wanting to move on. Levy, having re-invested heavily needs to act fairly quickly before things spiral out of control. Those that think it is messy now.....IMO, unless acted upon promptly and appropriately, it COULD get messier.
Critical_Spur
Maurinho Out!
Critical_Spur
well done sunderland
WorldPeace
Not only did Chelsea score, but their only goal wasn't scored by a Chelsea player. They used an attack designed by AVB. LOL.
Report Abuse
funderland
123spurs
C'mon Ovyeh, where's the match day article. Bored with this doom + gloom. Need summat positive to talk about! COYS!
Critical_Spur
Jeez some of you lot still don't get it do ya. Seven players bought in a world cup year, the majority of them international squad players. If even two of them have decent world cups ENIC most probably quadruple their investment by selling them, along with vertonghen in the close season. Then ENIC sell up and take everything, leaving us worse off than when they came and still waiting fir the new stadium. They are the footballing equivalent of a plague of locusts, yet some seem to think the scraps they toss us are a veritable feast. The next appointment will show the size of their ambition cane lets not forget that a change of manager often inspires a mini revival before the status quo returns. Please god not sherwood, the bloke is a snake and a yes man who has only his own interests at heart. If there is any real ambition at board level then they need to employ a manager with real gravitas and that sure as hell ain't sherwood. DeBoer would be my choice but others have mentioned equally good managers. Trouble is, if you were a decent manager would you want to work for levy? .............. thought not.
thfc1882whl
Benitez
tophobunty1882
Neymar, Mate Dave Whelan is a perfect example, Wigan, a predominantly rugby town, a football club with very little finance, yet he pumps his own money in and manages to get them in the premier league, a minor miracle imo, and like u say, he lets his managers manage, a real footballing person who understands the game, he fired Coyle but that appointment was just 1 mistake out of a lot of very good decisions.
spurfect one
Benitez
stephenspurs1210
Benitez is employed in Napoli, no? What's it going to cost to take him from there? Not the smoothest history either.
Report Abuse
I say get behind and back Sherwood for the time being and make no more rash decisions. Hopefully Sherwood can buy us sometime to bring in a Manager like De Boer or even better turn the performances around. Hoddle in my opinion would just be another manager mistake for Spurs to add to its long list. His team against Man City with Townsend in the hole and 3 at the back shows hes not the Manager for us. Great player but no so great manager. Don't think Laudrup would leave Swansea for Tottenham mid season and to be frank I would be quite disappointed to get a manager that would so easily jump ship. Harry... no just no.
Rapm
Speculation, frustration, destination ... it's all about the next game. COYS
Geofspurs
I am looking forward to sherwoods Midfield and forward line on wednesday night, it will probably be a reflection on how far apart Levy and AvB were on the teams direction in the last weeks of his control??
WestStandEnclosure
peterballb- I was referring to our convo a couple of days ago when you said something along the lines the fans should pick the manager and I responded with statistically they'd get the decision correct....as your above examples seem to suggest....uncanny coincidence.
shedboy2
De Boer
Paddavis5
A lot of people mention AVB having a high win percentage (I make it 54% in the league) and use that to suggest that his sacking was not overly justified. But if you look at the win percentage this season alone, it is still 50%.... Yet we lie a disappointing 7th. Win percentage is not a very useful stat unless it is spectacularly high or low. However my point is that Jol's win percentage at Spurs may have been inferior to AVB, but his performance was superior (until the wheels came right off). I say this because he got his win percentage with far weaker squad. He turned us from top 5 dreamers to achievers. There is little point comparing different eras directly. The only thing you can compare is the effect that the guy had. What he had to start with, and where did he take us. Harry took us further. Now this brings me to ENIC and Levy who oversaw these progressions. Credit cannot be denied to them as they achieved it. Yes you can criticise them as mistakes will always be made. Let's hope that they can progress us further.
TonyRich
TonyRich, but one could argue that Harry had the best squad. Where do his numbers come in? You can only play the players you have. Had AVB stayed until the summer and our season ended with a 50% PL winning percentage, we all know that would not be good enough. AVB would hae said that himself. With all the new faces, the injuries etc he was never able to even field a best XI, even if he could have figured out what that would be. I certainly have no clue as to the best XI. 7 or 8 perhaps but still way too many questions and even of those 7 or 8 have 4 out injured. What to do. Anyway, spilled milk. Great managers get 55 + in the win percentage column over a career. Great managers at elite clubs push 70%. Jol did very well with what he had, but he was never going to take us forward. Ramos was unlikely to ever win the PL, but I do believe he would have had us win cups. Harry, stats speak for themselves. AVB, IMO, would have given us a chance to compete in all 4 competitions every year. Are there better out there? Absolutely. How many of them can we afford and are wiling to come? That is the question. COYS
peterballb
Good post TR
Ossie
Report Abuse, WorldPeace may have the length, but does he have the girth. LOL?
chrishove123
Unfortunately TonyRich, in those comparisons, there are far too many factors to consider. Yes, Jol got 5th and I will not take anything away from that. Fabulous job. Put in context though, we really were the team with the best players outside of the sky4. So, finishing 5th, was to have achieved what we should have and frankly, if we'd have managed to pip Arsenal, it would have legitimately been a David and Goliath moment. That didn't happen. Further, IMO, Harry had the 3rd best squad (could even argue 2nd) for three of his years at Spurs. He didn't use the squad, but the players were there. It was, beyond anything else, the suad and the team that managed to have us finish ahead of City. So, on to last season, how good was our squad? No Modric, VDV, King and Ade for the most part. Only Bale consistently remained of our top 5 players. So we brought in new stars. But, where was out "team" and "squad" as compared to the others? I don't think we could say that we were more talented than ManCity, or Chelsea. To even suggest we were better on paper than ManU or Arsenal would be pushing things. So, where should we have finished in that context? What about this year? On paper, can one say with all the comings and goings that we are better than City, Chelsea? a settled Arsenal? A liverpool that is not in Europe and doesn't need to use more than 15 players? I believe we have the potential to be up there with the best, but two of our projected stars (Lamela and Eriksen) are just kids. 21. New league. We are 17 games in and with all of the comings and goings, still have no idea who our best XI are. Injuries have played a part and will continue to do so. We can all agree that Dawson is below Vertonghen and Kaboul in terms of talent and is also likely behind Chiriches. Chiriches' arrival and settling, injuries to Vertonghen and Kaboul have seen our 4th choice CB start all 17 PL games and feature in 6 cup games. Sandro, Kaboul, Lennon, Vertonghen, Capoue, Chiriches, Chadli, Adebayor, Eriksen, Townsend, Rose have all been off injured. It's really hard to get any traction when that many players are out injured, not to mention that there are 7 new players and two back from loan. It was a huge ask. It will be of Sherwood too. Rotation and keeping players happy will ultimately determine what we have next season. If the players become unhappy, we are going to see this potentially great squad break away before our eyes. Best top to bottom potential that I have ever seen in a Spurs squad. 300M of talent. That's what has been entrusted to Sherwood. I hope he is up to the task. COYS
peterballb
 

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