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The Experienced Manager

Those who believe in criticising before the event maintain that Sherwood is not up to the job of managing a club like ours, we need an experienced manager.

Putting Sherwood's abilities to one side for a moment we need to be clear on what is meant by experienced. After all there are plenty of experienced managers in the lower leagues, it doesn't mean you'd be happy with them running your club. What is really meant is a 'big name' someone, inevitably foreign, who has managed at the top level. Fair enough, but there is a problem. There is a pecking order for managers, just like there is for players.

At the moment you would have to say there are two outstanding managers in European football now Ferguson has retired; Guardiola and Mourinho. There is zero possibility either will ever manage our club. It gets worse of course. City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal (if they ever actually need a new manager) are ahead of us in terms of attractiveness to any top manager, since it is a European wide industry add in Bayern, Madrid, Barcelona etc. So we are never going to get the really big name, only the slightly smaller name, the guy who's been there but not really done it or the guy whose best days are behind him.

Rather than a recipe for getting to the next level its a recipe for ticking over, for finishing where we currently are. That was probably Liverpool's thinking when they appointed Rodgers, like us they couldn't sign the best so they decided to gamble, so far it seems to be working. Let's be clear, this is nothing to do with Sherwood, whether he turns out to be brilliant or a disaster the argument stands. We can't sign the very best managers, we're too far down the pecking order. So either we gamble or we appoint a proven journeyman and stay where we are, there's no safe option to take us to the next level.

Written by jod




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The journalist

Writer: jod Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday January 21 2014

Time: 8:19AM

Your Comments

does there also have to be a consideration over the managers playing credentials? When we consider that the likes of AVB, Mourinho, Rodgers and a few more didn't have top level playing careers, so have had to gain all their experience from a coaches perspective, does having 15 yrs as a top professional count as experience towards management and to what degree?
oxfordspur
Thanks jod. Not sure about this. It's a lot to do with; Skills knowledge, understanding the game, traing techniques, how much experience, man-management, the right time, the right team, the right players, a bit of luck, etc, etc! I think luck is a big factor ... in the sense that the rest comes together.
Geofspurs
Really Jod?- you take experience and credentials and turn it into 'big name' to suit your own argument...your over simplification is just plain wrong. You then go on to denigrate our club and imply we can't get a top manager despite being the 11th richest club in the world!....and no one is criticising before the event...the event has already happened....a PL club supposedly aiming for the top has appointed a backroom boy without the experience or credentials...as you point out, it's a gamble, a bigger gamble than Pool who hired a successful manager...we have no idea how Tim will handle the ego's, Transfer windows or any of the other daily ups and downs of football mgt....it was a ludicrous decision leaving us now to cross our fingers and hope....
shedboy2
I'm happy with TS as things stand. He's been outstanding in the league and I don't think there's many well known or not that would have bettered his record thus far. Many wanted De Boer, but when he got his break he was Ajax's version of Tim Sherwood, played for the club and was part of the backroom staff before being promoted from within. We get far too excited by exotic sounding names and make the assumption it makes them better even if they have absolutely no experience of the league. Laudrup was another name, but this season Swansea are doing poor and often look like we did with AVB, all possession and no end product. Even if you look at people like Guardiola...Barcelona and Bayern, how much success would he have had if he couldn't buy whoever he wanted or didn't have the benefit of the best youth scouting in world football? No, I'm happy with what we have. We're beating the teams we should which is the foundation of real progress.
flipper
I think I'm more on the jod post than yours shedboy. We may well be the 11th richest club in the world but do we have the pulling power/finances of Man city, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal (to a certain extent) Bayern, Barca, Real Madrid, Inter or AC Milan, Juve et al? I don't think an experienced, top rate manager would come to our beloved THFC rather than manage any of those clubs. Maybe back in the 60's when we were up there with the best. We did well, or not, to attract AVB considering how much he was rated on the continent, but look how that finished up. Also factor in working under Levy's chairmanship and I am a fan of his leadership and appreciate where he's taken our club to, but he doesn't seem the best man to deal with. We just have to support our inexperienced, non, licenced rookie manager and see where we end up come the end of the season. LVG still seems interested but not till after the WC. So there's a good, experienced manager that might come to us if TS fails. Rather argueing against my point I suppose. lol
longtimespur
Rodgers was uccessful ????? Ha Ha Ha
spurs50yrs
I think people can identify who is potentially a captain/manager when they work with someone and we obviously know that being a great player pr even captain is no guarantee of being a good manager. problem is that there isn't just one quality to be considered and obviously experience is vital, however when we look at someone like Guardiola for example, he just ticked all the boxes, aside from that time served manager one
oxfordspur
Shedboy2 IF TS got us 4th would you take back any of what you have posted since his appointment? Or would you just carry on in your vitriolic way until a "Name" appointment was made? and possibly failed - again?
maccaspur
shedboy2 - So you'd be happy with a manager from the championship as long as he was experienced ? of course not, don't talk rubbish. I really get sick of this "11th richest club crap". Firstly it means we get the 11th best manager. Secondly if number 10 has twice our revenue its meaningless. I wonder what you mean by "a top manager". As I said in the article there are two top managers, Mourinho and Guardiola and we aren't getting either of them. So you really mean a second or third best manager, which won't actually get us punching above our weight.
jod
Have to agree all the way Jod.
maccaspur
the reality is that its all about the entire system. Signing the best player in the world is no gaurantee he will continue to perform in a new league and new club. Same can be said for managers: whether he has won the CL, the World cup, or nothing, if he fits into the clubs system and philosophies it could work, if he doesnt it could fail. There is a huge amount of luck involved and remember that Gaurdiola and De boer as mentioned started as youth development managers to then coach junior or b-sides and developed in the club system. Perhaps TS is our Gaurdiola/De boer.....You never know!
jhbspur
jhbspur I'm afraid that the Levy bashers won't accept that argument.
maccaspur
Mac...i myself am not a huge fan of Levy outside the phenominal Financial job he has done. But i do get a sense that this could just be that Lucky Placment that changes fortunes. Or maybe i am just hoping so in order to believe the 18month manager relay could be over for a while:)
jhbspur
This is NO more of a gamble - no I'll stop myself there. This is much less of a gamble than appointing the legend that is Hoddle, as a lot of people on here were proposing.
maccaspur
Tim as been in line to have a go and it as come a little earlier than expected but deserves his chance to become a winning manager! They are the top men the winners.one season wonders don't count as avb as shown to us.footballer qive the never say die attitude as to have the chance to be a winning manager instead of experienced second rater we would prob get!
bazdog
Agreed...i for one am happy with the gamble. Lets see where it takes us...the previous 'names' have done no better so lets enjoy watching TS and the team develop and quite possibly shock the world with the next Gaurdiola/Fergie/De boer etc :)
jhbspur
As they say, the proof is in the pudding. Experience counts for nothing if results show otherwise. Get the right results and you're the manager for us regardless of your experience or lack of. That should be the only criterion by which Tim should be judged.
hiano
Tim is not the manger, he is head coach, he has a lot of experineced coaches around him. He is not in charge of transfers this is done by baldeagle. Playing at the top level for 15 years under good mangers must give a player an insight to successful coaching. Tim is well respected at the Lane for the work he has done. So lets judge hiom on his results, so far he has the best points return of any new Spurs coach/manger, so thta's not a bad start. He has a great squad to choose from so there is no reason to think he cannot suceed, coaches usaully fail when they try to complicate things with too much tactical inteference. So lets see where we are at the end of the season. Come on Tim we are behind you all the way.
johna
Tim is not the manger, he is head coach, he has a lot of experineced coaches around him. He is not in charge of transfers this is done by baldeagle. Playing at the top level for 15 years under good mangers must give a player an insight to successful coaching. Tim is well respected at the Lane for the work he has done. So lets judge hiom on his results, so far he has the best points return of any new Spurs coach/manger, so thta's not a bad start. He has a great squad to choose from so there is no reason to think he cannot suceed, coaches usaully fail when they try to complicate things with too much tactical inteference. So lets see where we are at the end of the season. Come on Tim we are behind you all the way.
johna
Exactly johna.
maccaspur
Must do some work...........
maccaspur
Well there are gambles and there are calculated risks. I am sure if we had approached them at the appropriate time we could have acquired Rodgers, Martinez or Laudrup or a few other excellent managers that at least had done a few years grounding as a manager and been a much lower risk than Sherwood. A logical progression for Sherwood would have been to have made him an assistant to the manager and monitored his performance. Another illogical decision would of course be to sack him just because he doesn’t make top 4.
matt hoten
Fact is the Manager/Head Coach must be first and foremost a Leader. The other skills and experience are bonuses but primarily he needs to be someone to whom players WANT to give their all. If he can't command that then he will never be anymore than a coach and will bounce from team to team until he runs out of teams. No matter how brilliant AVB is he has proven he doesn't have the leadership skill for this level. Lets hope Tim has it.
jvd
maccaspur- TS could win a the CL...it wouldn't stop the appointment being anything other than a massive gamble...As I said before his appointment...go and bet your mortgage on a roulette - if your colour comes up it doesn't make you a genius...it's still a mug punt. And again stop with the 'name' rubbish...Jod- spirited defence of what is an intellectually flawed piece...
shedboy2
jvd ... from what we are witnessing on the field the players appear to be playing for him. Although sometimes they don't start from the first whistle. We have yet to score a goal in the first 15 minutes of a match yet have conceded 3! Be great to break that statistic on Wednesday week. Get out of the blocks at top speed instead of the way we do.
longtimespur
The irony is that (in terms of career progression), Sherwood's career has thus far gone a similar route to Guardiola's. Guardiola at one point (as with all managers) was not an experienced manager. Guardiola was youth coach as Barca after previously being a player at Barca....then got promoted to the actual Barca manager. Sherwood was youth coach at Spurs after previously being a Spurs player, and now promoted to Spurs manager. Sherwood is not the issue here (as we promoted from within, and the last time we did that - Jol - it was a success until the wheels came off). AVB is the real issue. After sacking our Harry and his staff, there was no one to promote from within. So we had to get someone in. THIS is when we should have gone for experience as we were on the ascendancy as a club, and needed to kept it going. We needed a guy who had a track record of either success in England, OR success in more than one country. When you hire someone externally, you want guarantees that it is likely to work. AVB had a single full season of management, and therefore no guarantee. It could have worked, yes. But it really was a long-shot given the Chelsea experience, and the fact that he did not stay at Porto to prove that it was no fluke. I am not talking about Guardiola as a target. I am talking about managers who have done well in more than one country.
TonyRich
The real winners this season are Everton. They picked up the best younger manager out of those already here. Martinez is proving it now - only 2 defeats. They picked up the Lukaku & Barry loans - 2 excellent acquisitions from teams who do not appreciate what they are missing. If we were to go for the non-experienced manager, then Martinez would have been my choice.
TonyRich
Credit must be given to Sherwood for the radical improvement - and it's not just 'new manager bounce' - he's been brave, taken the risk and done it 'his' way - I say that he will surprise a few of us - not sure what DL's plans are though!
Durbanspur
Tony rich agree with your post regards AVB appointment, Martinez is doing well at Everton but they were a pretty solid outfit before he got there and he also guided Wigan to relegation last season. I think He is benefitting froma club who gave the previous manager sufficent years to build his squad.
Slurms McKenzie
For Fork Sake! can we not leave the current manager be the manager without all these repeditive speculative articles linking us to other managers who are already in jobs but maybe cannon fodder after the world cup? LVG stated he was approached by Spurs - turned us down - intends to RETIRE after the world cup but if a premiership club offered him a job he would, wait for it, "look at it". Now how does this statement translate to Spurs have LVG nailed on to be their coach in September????
Slurms McKenzie
Horse *****----there is a big possibility we get L.Van Gaal in the Summer if things dont work out for T.S.--- alot of it is timing, most managers would consider managing a club like Tottenham if they were unemployed at that time, it also depends at what stage of their career they are at and how their most recent post went........why is it doom and gloom all the time, we are back playing good attacking football the Spurs way, and always remember CASH IS KING......CO YS...top 4 COULD be decided on the last day of the season by SIMILAR results to this weekend ( i.e. Liverpool draw and Everton draw and a win or us) they are small margins for a manager/coach to lose his job.....ILTH
krafty007
While I am still unsure Tim has what it takes to take us to the next level and I am still feeling uncomfortable about his appointment I also give credit where it is due and recognise that we just don't know.

personally I do not know of any manager that we can attract that would guarantee us success, as the article say's we will not get the best so every appointment will be a gamble so in that sense why not gamble on a rookie in Tim. Thinking about it I guess it was not really a bad decision because may as well give him a go than bring in another temporary manager, like Hoddle who would also be a gamble, because there was just no one available with it being a WC year and a 'sudden' departure of AVB.

I juts want some stability in a manager, like Arsenal, Utd had, and will I think under Moyes, and stop this swapping and changing. Can Tim be that man, we will see. May be the club needed some one like Tim, a no nonsense, raw product that says it as it is and the rest he will learn as he goes along. Who knows.

I think until we get the stadium done and paid for and we can increase revenue then top six is realistic, top four more realistic when we can pay more wages and attract a couple of top players but to do that they need to see some stability, I am sure players don't want to go to a club with a reputation of hiring and firing managers every year.

Lets get settled, and if Tim can do that the great if he cannot then who knows who will come in, but in all fairness I am not sure there are any managers that can deliver more than we are doing, because it is not easy getting that top four with Arsenal having a manager that has done it so many times, years of experience, Chelsea now have a manager that has won everything and can buy whoever they want, and City can buy whoever they want and so that leaves Utd, ourselves, Liverpool and a couple of outsiders like everton and newcastle. Utd have the experience although they are going through a transition and Liverpool are a bit like us, but slightly ahead in that they have kept their manager and we didn't and have started again, and Liverpool have managed to keep saurez and we didn't keep Bale. If Utd can bring in a couple of decent players and get RVP and Rooney back on the pitch I think they will get back into the top four, if not this season but next, although they may well lose players if they don't get CL this season. This season like last was the best opportunity to get top four, last season teams were not playing as well, Utd won it but they were not that great and this season changes in management, City, utd and Chelsea and we was in a great position to capitalise it, should have kept Bale and added a couple of players, we didn't, and even having sold Bale and brought all these players what did we do, let our manager go, rightly or wrongly, imo wrongly because it was too soon and it does nothing for our reputation, all this hiring and firing, potential managers and players will be seeing us as a 'hiring and firing' club and people are not given time.
WorldPeace
This is not the time for this article, the end of the season will be the right time. No doubting that current results in the league are very good but we have to put it in the context of us having played sides mainly struggling for points and things going for us at the moment. City will obviously be the first real test, other than Arsenal in the cup and I can see us sneaking a win if we control the midfield but as others have said a loss not a big deal if we give a good account of ourselves. Will be interesting to see if Tim goes for a 442 as we are playing at home. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
jvd I think AVB was more down to poor man management skills, he had the coaching and managing nous and had the players playing for him to start with, but it seemed like as he grew into the job the more his lack of experience managing/coaching players like Ade came to the fore. That in turn degenerated into almost a hate campaign towards Ade from AVB which must have unsettled the rest of the squad somewhat because they would be thinking, who's next? So he slowly starts to lose the players due to his inability to man manage awkward and or egotistical world class players. I bet he never had anyone like Ade to deal with before.
chrishove123
The first season under AVB, had it not been for Gareth Bale, we could have ended up in the championship this season. He did and we all know it, he won games on his own.
spu 4 life
Good article Jod. I reckon if TS gets us into the top 4 (which I doubt) he'll have earned a longer contract. What I want to see is manger who isn't looking to get a better job and using Spurs as the stepping stone. Maybe TS is that man. Exotic names bring higher and unrealistic expectations. I'd like to see a manager who is given and wants time to structure a club for the long term. AVB was never going to stay at Spurs. If he'd been the success we'd all hoped he would have been snapped up by any one of Europe's top clubs. For me TS is doing much better than I expected and maybe with some summer signings of his own he can bring gradual improvement. The hardest part of the Spurs job is handling the unrealistic ambitions of Mr Levy and the fans. The last thing we need now is to fuel those expectations, so while TS is doing so well I say 'Hold Fast' and keep your nerve. The ship has been steadied - don't rock the boat. I sound like Captain Jack Sparrow - more like Captain Pugwash perhaps. Yarrgh!
SPUDMAN
There are a string of excellent posts for this article. Sherwood has been given an opportunity which it is up to him to grasp. He seems to have the knack of winning even when we are appalling for long periods of a game.Guardiola came from youth development and Seedorf has been appointed as a rookie by Milan. Do you trust our Directors to appoint a competent successor if Sherwood goes ? Look at the track record of Alan Sugar and Enic in this respect.
cynicspur
very good point jod but I still think good managers would want to come and manage tottenham
logos8
cynicspur .... Like your first sentence, that in itself is a very unusual and interesting fact!!!! But you're right re Sherwood could be our Guardiola, unlikely but not impossible. Certainly has little/no fear regarding playing style. It'll be interesting to see how Clarence does too.
longtimespur
The great Bill Nicholson's first and only managerial job was at THFC……. Just saying.
MAN ON!
True Man On but Bill only got the job because Louis Van Gaal had a comitment to learn how to use a big boys toilet and his ABC's over the summer of 1955...
Slurms McKenzie
chrishove, good points on AVB/Ade but let's remember that Ade has fallen out with pretty much every coach he has played for.
ItalianYiddo
There are some posts on here that say Everton got the best young manager, and I don't dispute that. We, at the same time, have had one manager that some liked and some didn't, and another manager who many are sitting on the fence over (including me). But the reality is ... we sit above Everton on the table!! I wonder what that means?
Geofspurs
spu 4 life, if Bale can do so much on his own why didn't he get Wales to Brazil? I'm sure he would have loved to perform on the ultimate stage. Wales came 6th out of 7 teams.
ItalianYiddo
Spudman - what unrealistic ambitions? Our ambition to regularly be in contention for CL qualification is being realised currently with 2 top 4 finishes in the last four years, and 2 5th. Not even MU can guarantee perpetual qualification now.
Love totty
Italian, Bale is a gifted footballer but you can't blame him for being Welsh - its not his fault! Cantona, Giggs, Best never played at a world cup finals either I guess they were sh1.t as well?
Slurms McKenzie
logos8 - Good but not the best. If our rivals are going to get first pick of the managers then its the same as with players. If you want the best you have to get them early in their career.
jod
geof- it means we spent a lot more money on players than they did....
shedboy2
shedboy ... yes, I agree, but that's just another of the many uncertain variables that influence an outcome. It's impossible to pin definite reasons down, because there are so many contributing factors ... and the manager or the spending are just two of them. I guess my point was that we are not doing too badly. :-)
Geofspurs
Geof, Shedboy could have added we also sell players, especially our best ones and net spend is usually bugger all.
matt hoten
matt ... True. It is what it is ... we are joint fourth (somehow) and that is all that matters at this point. :-)
Geofspurs
To compare us with Everton is somewhat perverse when you look at the clubs behind the scenes. They are owned and funded straight out of Bill Kenwright's back pocket compared to us with uncle Joe, Michael (pay no tax) Ashcroft, Alan (your fired) Sugar, and our Daniel. We spend umpteen times what they do, and has been said above, every time we have a truly class player we sell em. how long would Baines have lasted at Spurs, they would have turned him into ££££s years ago, the same re. Barkley, who I think they will keep as well. Martinez is quality, he kept Wigan, a championship club, and team, in the PL longer than they were ever entitled to be.
Frank
Re Tim Sherwood, I along with many was frankly horrified when Tim was appointed by Levy to succeed AVB. At present, after 6 PL games we appear to be eating humble pie, but I would prefer to wait until the end of the season to make a fully informed judgement on him as Spurs head coach/manager, take your pick. One thing I would say, is that it is already obvious that TS intends to give players the opportunity to play, with the team on the front foot, rather than getting engulfed in trying to play the continental chess style game so beloved by AVB, but boring and passion free for the fans. Good luck to Sherwood and may he continue as he has started. One thing he should guard against is Baldani making as big a Horlicks of another transfer window as he did in the summer, and succeeding at keeping his job.
Frank
Who said anything about Bale being ****e Slurms? I am just illustrating the fact that one player alone doesn't get you 70 points in the league or win world cups, yes individual players can be massively influential like Suarez is for Liverpool but it is a team game.
ItalianYiddo
Football management, in particular, is about being a leader of men. Almost army-esq. We all have different views but I really do believe football is a confidence/momentum game. Man management. That's the difference. Not ignoring money, of course. TS a rare prem winning captain not from a not big club, but lets face it, Jack Walker bank-rolled it. Even WITH money, without that squad togetherness and hunger, you'll probably fall short. It's mainly man-management, and having tactical tricks up your sleeve, spotting a player, recognising player levels and needs... Bunch them all together you've got a Fergie. All the early signs are that Sherwood could be massive.
jerkinmahjurgen
It seems far too many on here are looking/hoping for TS to fail. Lets get behind him and hold judgement till the end of the season. The football is better then AvBs brand, players are responding to him in a positive way. When we get some first choice players fit, we should improve even more!! COYS
WestStandEnclosure
Frank - Don't know where you get your financial information. Everton aren't funded by anybody, they live off what they earn just like us. The only difference is they were on the point of bankruptcy when Moyes arrived and are still run on a relative shoestring. Its a mystery to me why they still seem to generate so much less revenue than we do.
jod
i liked the sherwood appointment from the beginning. TS dares to do and it has sofar been succesful. long may it continue. i think we will get 4th and improve from there next season. COYS
gRAMMSTEIN
Frank, when has Baines ever kicked up a fuss, and when have they received a mind blowing bid? They get a £27m bid for Rooney, Rooney goes. Similar for Fellaini, he goes. I'm 99% sure if they received a bid of £20m plus, Baines would be straight out the door. Don't know why people think we're any more of a selling club, like we'd sell for a slight profit. Tripled our money on Berbatov, tripled it on Keane, quadrupled it on Carrick, doubled it on Modric and got more than 8 times back what we paid for Bale. Each one of those players wanted to leave as well, it's not like we were having a car boot sale.
Bernio Villas-Spuras
 

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