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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

Technology and modern football

It was perhaps apposite that Manchester City provided the opponents and talking points on the deficiencies on the laws of the game. After all, it was Dzeko involved in the first case of goal-line technology correctly determining a goal this season. And yet, the game still suffers from an inability for humans to accurately adjudicate the modern game.

Tonight's game was a clear case in point. Irrespective of anything else, including the oft repeated mantra by mouth-breathing pundits that Man City would have won anyway, and were deserved victors, two decisions by one official, both incorrect, had an influence on the game, and could have been remedied by technology in seconds, TO GET THE RIGHT DECISION, as is currently accepted with goal-line technology.

It is curious that offside and penalty area tackles elicit a ho-hum approach from the experts. It would appear that unless it is something so simple as the ball crossing the line, they are not prepared to commit themselves for fear of looking even more stupid than they sound, and skirt around the issue, making sympathetic noises, like Blatter PR people during FIFA election time.

If football wishes to remain credible in the eyes of an increasing audience, made sophisticated by all-seeing cameras, super-slow-mo etc, then it has to reconcile all this with the hapless saps who who make the decisions, and have to deal with football as if it were still 1950 and not 2014.

Written by 5thcolumnist






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The journalist

Writer: 5thcolumnist Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday January 30 2014

Time: 7:59AM

Your Comments

Yes the decisions were wrong,but we have been on the receiving end of some favorable ones too!! but the end result was correct the much better team won. The scoreline told the truth, Christians fed to the lions is the best description I can use to describe it!! COYS
WestStandEnclosure
To be fair - and this is where I get wound up by referees - the Rose one, if that's outside the box is almost always a foul and at least a yellow where the referee will say it's from behind and he's followed through on the opponent irrespective of whether he got the ball first. In the box it's pretty much never a foul despite being the same kind of challenge. I think before we get technology we need consistency, that means treating a challenge the same no matter where it is on the pitch or how many minutes of the game have passed. The offside one I just don't get...why have technology for deciding if the ball's crossed the line which is an extremely rare necessity, but not for contentious offside decisions which happen on a weekly basis?
flipper
Adebayor was offside when eriksen took the free kick so that wasn't a wrong decision. We were woefully second best lets not clutch at straws.
doobhotspur
the writer has made it clear this is a separate issue from the result. this is about the decision to send danny rose off, even if we didn't win. please let's take the result out of the equation here as it is a separate issue.
Spurfect11
and "vile piece of scum". maybe people should look in the mirror on here. we try to keep this site as friendly as possible, and in no way has the writer appeared as "vile scum". let's sort that issue out as well please. this is a front page - what impression does that language
Spurfect11
Our passing was woeful last night. How many times did Dembele/Eriksen pass to the opposition? There is a lack of cohesion in our team that has been there since the start of the season. We don't look like a team, we don't fight like a team, we don't defend as a team, we don't attack as a team. We are not a team, we are 11 individuals who wear the same shirt. Why, oh why is Siggi in the stadium let alone on the pitch. We need someone who can hold the ball and make a pass. Why did Holtby not start instead of Siggi. One of our biggest threats is Lennon, yet no one passed to him, the ball kept going to Rose down the left. We are missing Sandro and Verts, no doubt about that. But Bentaleb was out of his depth last night, Sherwood is showing his naievity by playing him against Yaya Toure. Be in no doubt, this is one hell of a City team, and in some respects they showed us in 2 games why we dont deserve to be on the same pitch as them. We can talk all we like about all our missing players, but you saw the difference between a side which has balance, pace, passing, movement that even an old warhorse like Demichaelis looked comfortable. We lack balance and cohesion, we have some good players, we just need them to become a team. It is also obvious that 1 or 2 are clearly not good enough.
vicspur
by letter of the law both could be perceived as correct. Ade was offside the entire time and made an effort to play the ball 1 yard from the goalie so fair call. Rose did get the ball yes, but did come through the back of Dzeko and that is a foul. The fact tha he was in the box with chance at goal means the foul is a penalty and red. thats my ref call point of view. From a team and result point of view....we have a serious problem in defence and TS should be spending the next 2 games speaking to every and any left back that will come to spurs! Then lets hope the returning injuries solidify the team and get some wins. CL should be out of reach now and undeserved if im honest....1 point from 15 in games against the top 4 says it all! We are not a top 4 team....
jhbspur
The decisions went city’s way all night, if it were the same happened against Hull we would be in uproar but because we expected to lose anyway it’s just brushed under the carpet. The offside was technically offside, but the reason given after the game compounded my thoughts that the officials had no phucking idea. They gave the off-side for Michael Dawson who was about 4 kilometres on side when the ball was played. We were destined to lose the game which I will get into in another post but for now ill stick to the topic

SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE. Managers cannot criticise refs or officials anymore without being slapped a stupid and meaningless fine. But the fact is over 70% of refs at the top level are just not good enough. “it’s a tough job”…..”they only see it once”…….blah blah I don’t care!!!! They chose to do the job so do it phucking right. Oh, and the linesman should Be a last resort, refs just look to them for a decision, THAT’S THE REFS BLOODY JOB!!!!!
hudderspur
also, not sure why as fellow supporters trying to cope with the ups and downs of of a spurs fan we feel the need to offend one another. The writer has an opinion about a topic that is relevant to the current game. If you disagree of have another version of opinion, please feel free to let us all know...but there is no need to attack a person either way?
jhbspur
Spurfect11 don't comment if u don't know what the root of the problem is! This writer is a troll and is in no way a Spurs supporter! Lol and he is part of the problem VS has become vile and "unfriendly"
Mix26
Can someone please explain why Fernandinho was not cautioned for trying to punch the ball out of the net. was it because technology showed that the ball had already crossed the line and the goal given, or was it because the Linesman did not see the hand-ball. The replay showed clearly that the Ref had a clear view of the incident but chose to ignore. Yes, we were outclassed but I feel the team showed more character in this game than any other in this season and MCFC definitely had help along the way. Had Fernandinho been sent off the game could have changed. That said, I accept the loss
DbnSpur
Sorry, I posted in the wrong article.
vicspur
Dbn.....good question. I also wondered about that. Even if the goal is allowed can he not be given a card for unsporting behaviour. For example, if a 2 foot tackle took place in build up play and ref played advantage and a team scored, surely he goes back and cards the tackling player so why not for hand ball on the line? Anyone have some insight to this?
jhbspur
Mix26 - ever heard there expression "two wrongs don't make a right"?You are they problem not the solution and you wouldn't be missed.
Love totty
I think that even with 11 vs 11, Man City would have been worthy of a win by 2-3 goals anyway up to the point of the sending off. We got away with just being 1-0 down at half time. But you did feel that we were getting back into it at the end of the 1st half and start of the second. The sending off killed the game. I agree with technology for goals ONLY, not for things like this. Because most of the time it is still an opinion. When you have pundits disagreeing after 48 hours to make a decision from multiple angles, then it is not going to make too much of a difference. In a whole season, it will even out, and the best teams still finish where they should. And yes ADE was offside for our disallowed goal, and should not have been....
TonyRich
DbnSpur - agreed on your points. Fernandinho, goal or not, illegally tried to stop the ball with his hands. If say that I am running in on goal, and a defender hacks at my legs as I score, should the ref ignore his professional foul...? My belief is that it wasn't seen. But if it was seen, would they have acted...? No one mentioned it on Motd... (yes I like punishment... I went to game, rushed home and then watched the highlights!)
TonyRich
DbnSpur - oh I and I forgot that I agree about the character. At 3-1, we suddenly saw our spurs starting to come back to life and the AVB-induced hibernation...
TonyRich
Lol nice one LT I'm impressed u came up with that all on ur own... Very ironic at the same time too lol but not surprising considering u are very much the same breed.
Mix26
The simple truth is we have no idea what would have happened had the second half been 11 v 11, anyone saying otherwise is presumably making a killing betting on football results. The referee killed the game, pure and simple. Its not hard to understand why refereeing standards are so low. In any walk of life if you don't have to explain mistakes, critics are gagged and there are effectively no consequences for poor performance then standards will suffer. Its disturbing how much better the referees are in Rugby than football.
jod
To be fair, they would have beaten us regardless, and we were very fortunate to be only 1 goal down at half-time (Lloris save, Rose goal-line clearance, Aguero hit bar etc.). And for the disallowed goal, as someone rightly pointed out, Ade was in an offside position, and even if he didn't touch the ball, he almost certainly interfered with play. The Rose pen is a harder one. Yes, he did touch the ball, but it wasn't really a tackle. If it wasn't for him scissoring Dzeko, he would have still had the ball and been through on goal. To tackle someone, surely the ball should have to move away from the attacking player? Otherwise you could just touch the ball when someone is dribbling and hack them down? I can understand why people would contest it, but at the end of they day having to come in from behind in a last ditch attempt indicates poor positioning and he can only really blame himself.
Stevenage Hotspur
Dbn .... I posted that on the thread last night. Why wasn't it a red card, deliberate handball why the ball is in play. No matter that he didn't manage to do it, his intent was to stop the ball with his hand. 5th columnist.....Also I posted on the report thread, Why was the same linesman making calls against Spurs in both halves? I always thought that assistant referees ran the line the same each half and therefore making calls against each attacking team?defening team. Stevenage Hotspur ... .......can't argue with your comment on the result, wouldn't have changed much if 11-11. But the penalty/red card, I watched the game on BT Sport and their commentator/pundits seemed to think Rose came in more from the side and got the ball then Dkeco ran in to him. I must admit I didn't see it in real time only once the linesman flagged and changed the refs mind. He was giving a goalkick so obviously didn't see the touch Rose got on the ball.
longtimespur
The decisions made last night, didn't affect the result, but lightly the manner and margin of the defeat. In any case win, lose or draw you are entitled to honest, correct decisions made by competent officials,a description that, with the best will in the world, cannot be afforded to Andre Marriner, or indeed blind Pugh who was running the line for him last night. All decisions regarding penalty kicks, sending offs, allowing or disallowing goals, should be based on 100% certainty. these are game changing, possibly season defining decisions, and must be correct, irrespective of all the alleged difficulties experienced by referees. The honest stark truth of it all is that many on the current list of PL referees are grossly incompetent and unfit to officiate in games at the top level. Last night I was amazed at the referee allocation, there was Spurs v City, a game with a bearing on the PL title, and the top 4 CL qualification, a massive game, and we get in Andre Marriner, a known iffy ref, whereas Villa v WBA a nothing game, gets Mark Clattenburg one of the better refs, and a Geordie so there was no problem of him favoring either team on a geographic basis. I just think that there should be more common sense applied to these appointments as it is just not true that they are all of the required standard. Mark Halsey formerly "one of their own" has actually named 7 officials he deems not up to PL standard. I think that there should be a UEFA panel of the best refs from England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France to be allocated around Europe on a weekly basis, (the furthest flight time is under 3 hours, so there would be no logistical problems), to ensure that the biggest games will always have a top official. This list should be subject to promotion onto it, and relegation from it, based on game by game assessment. These guys are no longer part timers on a match fee and exes, they are professionals and should stand or fall on the standard of their performance, exactly the same as the rest of us, how many employers will tolerate poor performance.
Frank
Meh, get over it. We were smashed by a better team, and if Rose is as crap as so many on here say, the red card is a blessing in disguise for us, no? If you're going to complain about the decisions that went against us, at least have the decency to do the same about the dodgy ones that have gone for us, which there are many this season. Hypocrisy is one fecking unattractive personality trait.

Sorry 5thcolmnist, that's not a dig at you, or your article. It's more a statement to everyone who's pi$$ed off about it. Our 'manager' doesn't give a crap about the decisions, if his after match comments are to be adhered to, so why should any of you/us?
coopsieyid
Is anybody seriously saying that the linesman that disallowed the touch, if there was one, by Adebayor, before the ball got to Dawson (who was clearly on-side), from the distance he was away, I just don't believe him. The linesman actually told BT Sport after the game, that he disallowed the goal based on Dawson's off side position, that although close, was wrong. If there is any doubt, lack of 100% certainty, then the decision should not be made, and the goals stands. Similarly re. the penalty kick, Rose clearly gets the ball, as pointed out be several ex players (people who understand the game, as well as the rules) after the game, with minimal contact with Dzeko, "referee" Marriner, a few yards away, gives nothing, then his trusty Asst. 40 yards away gives a penalty, so Marriner awards the penalty, and then sends off Rose, although he didn't see the foul, you couldn't make it up. Again there was doubt, so the decision should not be made. A prerequesite in all sport, is that the officials are competent, capable, and honest, unfortunately PL football is not afforded this at the moment, and the situation is deteriorating season on season, and needs addressing with urgency. Then perhaps it will be the case that after every game day, we are discussing the merits, or otherwise, of player achievement and performance in the games, rather than as at present, looking again at contentious refereeing decisions made in several games.
Frank
For technology read, use competent officials, make them fully accountable for their decisions, apply a promotion and relegation system to the PL list season on season. Suspend referees and publish this as a result of a poor game.
Frank
Each manager needs to be able to refer two decisions per game to a video referee. This will not slow the game down because as it is after every contentious decision the referee is surrounded by whining, gesticulating players which takes a while to subside
cynicspur
Thank you for some thought provoking comments. Spurfect appreciate your input. Mix, I hope you sued the charm school.
5thcolumnist
Definitely no more technology!!!!

Don't care that we have been on the end of some bad decisons, I love the sport because of the passion and adrenaline rush it creates. Imagine having delays like Cricket, football would be ruined if you can only half celebrate a 95th minute winning because the other team to review - they have one left so might as well........

No, stick to the mistakes it is human error and like missing a penalty it is part of the game, the GAME, no medical science.
T.H.F.Chris
the two decisons (and possibly 3) were correct, Adey was clearly interfering in play and propably got a touch, Rose slid in with studs up albeit without malice. for the 3rd deision the goal stood so a goal scoring opportunity was not stopped, the fact the decision on Rose dosn't seem just doesn't mean the ref can give a tit for tat decision. The problem imo is that the officials cannot use common sence for fear of TV pundits or there supervisors going on about consitency. I really fear we are going to get a game where players can walk the ball into the net uncontested for fear of red cards
troffer2
troffer2 .... hi, what happens if a player deliberately handles the ball in the penalty area. penalty possible red definitely yellow! If, by handling, he's trying to stop the ball going into the net, it's a penalty and red card for stopping a goalscoring opportunity. Just because he failed to stop the ball going over the line doesn't make him less guilty of the offence. IMHO of course. As for the disallowed goal: the BT Sport people asked the linesman why he flagged to disallow Dawson's goal and he said because Dawson was in an offside position, when the freekick was taken. Which was subsequently proven incorrect on the show. Nothing to do with Ade. As for the penalty and red card: the ref didn't give it his linesman did. The ref saw nothing wrong and waved play on.
longtimespur
Frank...... good post re referees.
longtimespur
The only way you will ever get referees & assistant's to give correct decision's all the time is if they are threatened with a huge fine and docked there match fee's. You will soon start to get the right decision's then. But I guess it's been a while now since Spurs have been on the end of some dodgy decision's certainly not this season, so maybe we are due a dodgy one.
yid61
First and foremost the better team won on the night, although decision going against you don't help. In fact, Chelsea and Arsenal have also been punished as nobody know what might have happened.

The linesman gives offside because he either thought Ade touched the ball (he didn't), Dawson was offside (he wasn't) or Ade was interferring with play in an offside position (he was). The question that the linesman should be accountable for is why did he flag? IMHO in full speed it was all so boarderline that teh benefit should go to the attacking team. Surely the idea of offside if to prevent "goal hanging", and Dawson was hardly doing that.

As for the sending off, the referee gives a corner only for the assistant to give the penalty. Again the assistant needs to justify his decision as I though Dzeko also went down extremely easily. My biggest grudge with the whole thing is the red card, this is a genuine attempt to play the ball (actually does play the ball) and you end up receiving a double punishment. Similar to a GK getting sent off in a 1 on 1 situation. Are we trying to instruct the defending players to do nothing and hope they miss? I'd sooner see a penalty goal given with no card to the player when the plpayer is making a genuine attempt to stop the ball and not the player.

Finally, the tackle on Dembele by Yaya is just filth, that is far more red card material irrepective or where on the pitch it occurs than what Rose did even if Rose didn't win the ball.
yiddyboy
Dermot Gallagher, a proper referee of the older school, not some jumped up *****ed with power idiot like most of the current crop are, on Sky Sports News today states that the tackle by Rose was " A good tackle, he clearly gets the ball, Dzeko's knee buckled and he went down, the decision should obviously be a corner", how much more clear confirmation that Blind Pugh the Asst Ref. and Andre Marriner the alleged referee got it wrong. It is also announced that spurs are to appeal the red card.
Frank
Longtermspur, the fact that the rules themselves are unfair was the point i was trying to make. The rule is that a red card can only be issued (for handball) if it denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity. the fact that the intent may be exactly the same wether the arm diverts the ball away or still goes in the net does not get over the fact a goal scoring opportunity was not denied. If you watch the "goal" again Ade was clearly offside and interfering in play. I think your thinking with your heart on that one. Yid 61 i agree over the season we defo have not be unlucky on decisions
troffer2
Who: The Journalist
When: 1 minute ago

"number of offers for few tottenham players; mainly loan.
tottenham wont bring any in unless they see them go.
its been quiet............


Who: RyanTegan
when: Immediately after The Journalist

"UPDATE - We enquired about Nani on many occasions the past few seasons. He looked set for a loan to Serie A but that looks to have fallen by the way side. United have been in touch, he has been offered, he is interested BUT BUT BUT....he wants to move to Italy.

I dont know now whether he is first choice or back up to this KonoPlanka fella but I would suggest that there are many factors to counter in before we see Nani at Spurs but it might just happen."...............
coopsieyid
troffer2 ... I was making the point that intent is deemed the same nowadays. Players get red cards for intent in a tackle, ie: dangerous play why should it be different with handball? Also if you re-read my post to you earlier I said the BT Sports lads ask the linesman at halftime why he'd flagged for Dawson's goal and he said Daws was offside when the freekick was taken. Nowt to do with Ade!
longtimespur
longtime ... Good post re 'intent'!
Geofspurs
 

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