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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

A Question Of Management

The uncomfortable annual reality check that is the Deloittes report on football revenues has been published. It shows we are the 14th club in Europe, with only a third of the income of the number 1, Real Madrid.

More importantly it shows we are 6th among English clubs, with even Liverpool in 5th having 40% more income. To me this has implications for the type of manager we need. To try and explain what I mean lets look at a current pretender; Louis Van Gaal.

Van Gaal started in management in 1991 with Ajax and has since managed Barcelona, Bayern, AZ and the Dutch national side. It looks an impressive resume and he has won things at every club, so what's the problem? In Germany and Spain Louis has won league titles with clubs that expect to win league titles, the big teams with resources to match. Arguably his most impressive achievement was in 1995, almost 20 years ago, when he won the Champions league with Ajax. But this was the end of the era when Dutch football was punching way above its weight, when the Dutch stars were still playing in Holland and mostly for Ajax.

You could argue that Van Gaal leaving for Spain in 1997 marked the end of that era, certainly when he returned to Holland to manage AZ in 2005 he could make no impact outside domestic football. What you are left with is a manager who gets teams to where they ought to get to, if you give him the resources he will get results. But what Deloittes is telling us is that we don't have those resources. There's a difference between what Van Gaal achieved with Bayern and Barcelona and what Ferguson did with Aberdeen, Mourinho with Porto, Brian Clough with Nottingham Forest. Its the difference between meeting expectations and exceeding them, and what Deloittes is telling us is we need to exceed them.

Basically we are number six in terms of revenues, we need to finish in the top four annually simply to close the gap. This won't change until we have built and paid for a new stadium. So with managers we are in the same position as we are with players, if you can't afford the superstar you need to find the player before he becomes a superstar. Once the Ferguson's and Mourinho's have overachieved with smaller clubs they move outside our price range so we need to find them on the way up.

In that respect Levy's instincts in signing AVB were right, the problem is he seems a particularly poor judge of managers. But to me there's no point in pretending we have some sort of entitlement to Champions league football, that any competent manager should be able to deliver it on a regular basis. The reality is we need a manager to overachieve, a gamble that comes off, someone on the way up not the way down, and your guess is as good as mine as to where we find him.

Written by jod




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The journalist

Writer: jod Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday February 11 2014

Time: 10:20AM

Your Comments

always important
Big Ron
As long as we have TS I am right behind him. I still reserve the right to moan about his decisions and the way he sets the team up to play, but I will still not call for his head as we are doing splendidly considering all the upheaval and changes we have had to go through.
chrishove123
Good article. Fergusons success at United was not overnight though and he had to rebuild a failing team over the course of a few years. With a team of much less financial weight like Spurs the same could be achieved with the right guy in charge. Patience is needed along with trust and a wise, if limited investment in suitable players.
MAN ON!
Acording to the Opta stats we are at the top for away teams.
chrishove123
By the way, could this be in some way classed as tapping up our goalkeeper. …………………………………………………………………………………. http://www.givemesport.com/429662-arsenal-striker-persuades-tottenham-star-to-cross-divide?autoplay=on
chrishove123
chrishove123 .... Agree re TS, whilst he's here let's back him to the hilt. IMHO He's not charismatic, doesn't show much in the way of tactics or substitutions nous, can't get the team playing from the start of a game but who knows he might become the new Fergie! Stranger things have happened.
longtimespur
It's really sad the way the game has degenerated into the financial institution it is today - I have had many joyful, exhilarating seasons supporting Spurs when we lost more than we ever did, were guaranteed of a good cup run( when the cups meant something) and I never envied the success of United, Liverpool or Arse ( Chelski and City were never a threat ) - we were a proud bunch back then!
Durbanspur
Jod, good article. We all know we are punching above our weight on this front, but we are doing well with it and have a great squad. We always seem to generate some world class players and that should attract a lot of top managers. Realistically we are a bit of a poison chalice when it comes to managers, as the first hint of underachieving results in a sacking or mutual parting of ways. It should be the other way round where a respected manager should be given time to embrace what we have and take us from where we are to higher levels through his coaching experience and getting the best out of what we have on the pitch. We could certainly afford a big purchase here and there to bolster the team once we show on the pitch we are a force to be reckoned with. In tandem with this we really need our ground capacity to increase through the new stadium which will increase our revenues dramatically, and get us closer to the turnover of our direct competition. When this happens we will be much more attractive to players and managers, building a desire to be part of THFC. Wages and pedigree of player will improve. It's very speculative on my part, I admit, and I believe It's a long slow burn from here, but I believe we will get there. For now, or until we have the new stadium anyway, it is as you say about managing expectations, but it is possible to exceed those expectations with the right man in charge. We are doing so to a point at the moment, as a club and as fans we have to hope for the best but expect us to be around top 4 for the time being.
Dublin Hotspur
longtimespur Mind you AVB had problems revving the team up for the start of games, so not a lot seems to have changed ….. (yet) …..
chrishove123
Call me deluded if you like, but I am still pretty optimistic of fourth, this last weekend shows it is still there for us to lose.
chrishove123
I think this is a very good article Jod, would be interesting to know who's name on the back of the shirt is selling in high numbers at present, managers can attract better/different players when they arrive and have the chance to sell their philosophy to players to get them in, with us chopping and changing managers there is never enough time for this to happen, but revenues for shirts go up when you sign a star or a few stars as does your attractiveness for the corporate boys with advertising and sponsorship, we currently have some good players but how many great players do we have ? that would sell shirts to a global market ? do not fall in to the trap that it is just a stadium that will lift our revenues. But a long term manager with a plan would be the first starting point, being honest who do you think TS could attract to spurs at present ?
totuae
People go on about we have been lucky and that luck must run out some time soon. Look at how lucky chelski were the season we got 4th and they won CL, that is the sort of luck that makes champions, and you make your own luck with effort and work because that way you make the opportunities for luck to knock it doesn't just happen. Funny how the "luckiest" teams are often the ones that work the hardest on and off the pitch.
chrishove123
jod... an interesting article and informative. I didn't realise those stats about LVG's management positions.
longtimespur
chrishove123, I'm as deluded as you are.....
MAN ON!
chrishove123....... sorry I can't agree 4th is ours to lose as we aren't 4th atm Liverpool are. With a far better goal difference and 3 more points. They have to lose 4 more points than us for us to overtake them. The trip to Anfield could well be decisive, a game we really do have to win.
longtimespur
The last weekend showed me what a poor team we look at times. Oyur midfiled was terrible for most of the game. We lacked steel (I do hope he plays Sandro when fit), we lacked movement, cohesion, understanding and the passing was abysmal. We have far too may similar players in midfield. Paulahino is obviously a gifted plaey but too slow for the prem, Djemebel at least does try to move the ball forward but hangs on it too l;ong too often. bentlab, average at best, will be a good player in a few years perhaps. Lennon and walker are all about speed but feck all else cannot deliver a final ball. Ericksen needs to be no 10 not stuck out on the left. We are a dishelleevd bunch and relyon Lloris too much to save us.
johna
TS is just another scapegoat IMO. Ok he seems very stubborn and set in his way (remind you of anyone) but the fact is the players are grossly underperforming. TS said after the Everton game that he was disappointed with how we started and didn’t understand why the message he laid out didn’t translate to the pitch. If he wanted them to press high up the pitch why didn’t they?? If you watch the game there is at least 4-5 times where you can hear TS screaming “Moussa…and then gesturing for him to push up the pitch……but he didn’t move. The only thing we can question is why he didn’t use at least one sub at half time, but I think managers are very reluctant to do so at 0-0. All this bring in LVG or whoever just needs to stop now. He got it until the end of the season at least so just give the man a bloody break and support him. He hasn’t done bad since he took over considering the players he’s had out, and the ones who have chosen not to bother

That is the real issue, our players just don’t seem to care about the badge. If we are going to take anything out on anyone then its surely the players. I am yet to see a single display all season where 90% of the players have given everything and look knackered afterwards. Too many people seem to be looking at potential barca moves etc instead of knuckling down. It ok to say LVG would get the best out of the players but the players need to make the effort to get the best out of the club. Time for hard action. Time for the board and the manger to show these millionaires that THFC will not be used as a stepping stone and if the sign a contract they go when we want them, to go. Until then, they must give 100% every week or play in front of 20 fans in a reserve game.
hudderspur
TS will start next season in charge, he'll get sacked around Dec/Jan time with us 'under performing' in 5th place, and then Gus Poyet will be in
King26
Ok so we are over achieving away from home, why cant we at home? problem solved? This is a very good and logical article. My feeling erf LVG i think is explained well here, I dont see how he can actually be the best choice for us, unless he has a driving amition to over achieve with a club one final time in what many regard as the toughest league in the world, that is a very unique set of personal drivers needing to be in place for someone in his position. Tough call. Hudd not sure you can say Sherwood is set in his way, what do you refer to as is way? 442?
tophobunty1882
As a manager I rather like Tim Sherwood.
Shannon
Well, he's not doing too badly for a clueless fool.....
MAN ON!
MAN ON ........ just say it as it is.....
longtimespur
Totuae, good post and a good last sentence, I don't know who we would attract with TS in charge. Manager Kudos is massive when it comes to attracting top players. re long term manager with a plan.. Thats what I was wishing for with AVB. he had the judos and sold his plan to many of our new signings which in turn attracted them and brought them in. I'll never know at what stage of the plan we were at.with AVB. shame. was the holding part near completion, and the attacking part coming up, was this really a settling season and next year we would be unleashed as a more polished machine? still, thats all history, but I can see it repeating itself again and again unfortunately. I just hope we can keep a hold of our international boys this summer, otherwise, like a house of cards caught in a draught, we will be picking up the pieces and starting again from square 1!
Dublin Hotspur
Totuae, in addition, I would love to know who's name is selling best on our shirts. I'm waiting to put Lamela's on mine, think he will be huge for us. its probably still Bale TBH! I reckon Tops has Soldado on hers
Dublin Hotspur
As discussed many times, AVB inherited a great team at Porto so he did not overachieve imo. In fact his performances at both Chelski and Spurs demonstrated his inability to get the best out of players. That will be the only way that our club can eclipse those richer than us. To a fair degree Harry did just that but failed to invest at the crucial times to sustain it. TS shows signs of repeating that mistake in being over-loyal to a few players. Energising the whole squad is the key and that requires experience and the respect that flows from it.
Love totty
Football became serious business a long time ago and there´s no return point. Though it saddens me as much as other folks here, we must accept that and move on. Off the pitch, the answer is soooooooooo simple that anyone can see: Without a bigger stadium Spurs won´t be able to generate financial resources enough to build and keep a squad capable of delivering CL football and throphies season-in-season-out. Apart from football clubs that derive their strenght from oil-millionaires, CL habituees all have 50K+ seater stadia. Chelsea comes to mind as SB is not a big venue but they have infinite resources...As long as WHL is our ground, we will be overachieving finishing 4th or higher. The other side of this business is called Marketing. Unfortunately, CL is the best football-based marketing tool ever developed and we are still struggling to understand the basics. Just compare Arsenal´s new contract with Nike and ours with UA. It gives the precise measure of our size. I know it hurts to say, but our bitter rivals are the best and nearest template we should be looking at. On the pitch we are a very, very unbalanced side with no effective left winger. Rose might try to get something there but he is not good enough for this job. At the right, though Lennon improved as a player because he supports Walker on defensive duties, neither his crossing skills nor his decision making skills are "state of the art". Even so, our attacking right side seems to be better than our nearly non-existent left one. The way I see, Tottenham Hotspur as a true football power is a 5 to 7 year project, assuming we starting building WHL Mark II this year.
AlexSpur
Maybe we should all hope and pray that TS works out for us. If he proves to be the young, up-and-coming, future great, currently cheap, Manager jod mentions in the article .... the next ten years would be sorted! I'd be happy with that.
Geofspurs
I have been saying it for months, we are 6th in the financial league, the owners are unable/unwilling to find the extra cash for us to realistically compete, wages the main issue, yet we expect/demand top four. I think most here know how I feel on the AVB issue, I think that given time he would have had us punching above our weight, he needed backing, he didn't get it and he walked. We now need to start again, given our financial constraints we are not going to attract top names, we need to find the next Martinez and if we do will he get the time and resources? I hope so, would I put a £1 on it? No.
ItalianYiddo
We do not need to finish top 4 annually. That is completely unrealistic because that requires at least 2 teams to "fall off" drastically. Potentially ManU could be one, but we would need another - and for how long would Man U falter? They have the finances & clout to push themselves back into contention sooner or later. There is a top 3 plus 1 other. I cannot see that 3 falling off unless Wenger departs (so efficiently remaining there). For us we just need progression, which is not just league finishes. Be it results, points, prestige, trophies, financial wealth, stadium capacity, spending power, quality of squad, CL qualification & runs, beating so called top teams... These all combine to improve our standing, our power, and can allow us to close the gap. I feel that we are doing this...in spite of manager changes. If you look at the stats (Brendan Rodgers being like the 3rd longest serving EPL manager - i.e. on his 3rd season), then what we are doing is not unusual. It does take luck to find your Ferguson or Wenger, but it also takes astute thinking... AVB was a poor choice for me from the start. Anyhow, it is TS now... I feel it a bit strange for all this talk about change of manager, when the current one is "overseeing" a good run of results. I doubt that it will continue, but the last 9 games has been title-chasing form, and it includes some tricky games. As I said before, until the wheels come off, I will reserve judgement. Besides, it is much better than what preceded it (both points-wise and performance wise), whilst not exactly being champagne footie most of the time.
TonyRich
The gist of this article seem to be that Van Gaal did well because he had the resources of money & talent at his disposal.You may well be right ,so that leaves us with plan B.Get a young up & coming manager with talent & give him 5 years to build a team from the grass roots upwards-like Fergy ,Wenger & now Brendan Rodgers.This must be the way forward as we are not mega rich.My choice would be Pochettinno,although rumours are circulating that Real will get him in the summer!
Greavesaboveall
Why, in that case is Sherwood not the man? After all he got a result against Pochettinno's team. I know it's not as simple as that but after 2 months in his first PL job he is doing quite well all things considered.
MAN ON!
ItalianYiddo - 100m is not backing...? Imagine what Martinez could have done with a third of that at Everton? The 100m was largely mismanaged by AVB & Baldini. We did get some good players, but the squad is not rounded. They ARE seeking extra cash via the new stadium. They have improved the quality of squad over the years. Your belief in AVB is merely a hunch, and there always was a chance that it could have worked....but could it wait that long? How many slaughterings, low goal tallies and dull matches would we have to endure to see that finally work? AVB's appointment wasn't based on any track record - 1 full season of management experience at Portugal's best club.... At Least Van Gaal has a track record to have faith that he is worth backing further. People do seem to forget that we ARE punching above our financial weight as we are 6th in the financial league, yet regularly finish 4th/5th. Wealth isn't everything, the manager chosen is very important too.
TonyRich
Any update on the new stadium. coopsie where are you with the latest gossip
tottscotspur
The article kinda contradicts itself, because you could argue that AVB did well in his sole season at Porto due to them being the best team in Portugal...with an abundance of riches in Falcao, Hulk, Moutinho etc... So Levy picked a manager who needs the best players in the league in order to succeed. What you need is someone who has proven to take more than one team (who are not world beaters) to the next level.
TonyRich
I don't think Sherwood is being head-hunted by Real Madrid.They have been studying his amazing re-organisation of the entire Southampton club from the youth team upwards,not a detail is left to chance.Check it out, Man On; Tim is not on the same level.
Greavesaboveall
jod...good article. One question though....If a manager like LVG was expected to win leagues in Spain with Barca, and Holland with Ajax, because of the clubs resources and the talent that was already there. What's the deal with Moyes at Man United?. Look at the resources, the quality of players he has at his disposal. I get the point you make, and to an extent agree with it, but i also feel that regardless of resources and status of players, a manager's input should still not be dismissed. At any level, some work, some don't. Moyes being the prime example. LVG, could take us to the next level, he could make us a laughing stock. He does however know how to get the best out of players, regardless of funds, and only this has allowed him to win titles in countries that some feel he deserves to win.
Cider spurs
Italian you think AVB resigned?
tophobunty1882
Greavesaboveall, Cheers, I was just asking. Not making a statement....... :-)
MAN ON!
Dublin, the Kudos you refer to AVB having, what is it and which players very specifically signed for THFC because of this Kudos?
tophobunty1882
Maybe we should look at De Boer then? He has an Ajax side that play on the philosophy that the team is greater than the sum of its parts. And our performances at the moment (and most of this season) say to me we need something like that. We cannot compete with the top sides financially but we still do have some financial muscle. We have a very good squad that with some minor tweaking and in the right hands, can get regular champions league football and beyond.
rahn DMC
i dont want van gaal,rather have de boer
ghulamville
Not getting at you Man On!I'm just cheesed off that we will miss out on the next Mourinho.Brendan Rodgers was my choice 2 years ago & look what he's doing at Liverpool.Levy keeps making the wrong choice,& though I like Tim's philosophy of attacking football, it's a bit naive when you are up against the best teams.Look how West Ham & Norwich nullified the Man City attack by using good tactics with much less quality than we've got.
Greavesaboveall
topho, it was "mutual agreement". Let me manage without interference or we call a day, Levy decided to call it a day.
ItalianYiddo
Tonyrich, he also won the EUFA which some say it is as hard to win as the CL due to the sheer amount of games and the CL teams dropping into it. Look at the quality of teams we need to face if we get past Dnipro.
ItalianYiddo
Greavesaboveall, I know you wasn't getting at me I just wanted to clarify what I mean't.
MAN ON!
I don't want De Boer....Rather have De Cider!.
Cider spurs
Italian, you think that's what happend do you? Where did you get that info from?....Rahn I would have thought taking the logic from the article De Boer would be the better route forward if we are going Dutch. The current one is doing well at the moment though based on results. Or we could go for Kudos.
tophobunty1882
Cider spurs - not really sure what your point is. Its obviously a lot easier to get a manager who under performs than one that over performs. Although to be fair to Moyes how many quality players does he actually have ? beyond Rooney, Van Nistelroy and now Mata he hasn't really got much. United have resources, the fourth highest revenue in Europe but they also have the Glaziers who actually take funds out of the club.
jod
If he is available i would prefer Frank De Boer and his assistant Denis Bergkamp, as our next management team rather than LVG For one reason, their comparative age. LVG is 62-3, whereas De Boer is in his 40s so has more chance of building a dynasty, as he has done at Ajax. I also agree with those saying that manager kudos is important in trying to attract top caliber players.
Frank
Good article jod although as TonyRich points out, the AVB bit does seem contradictory, unless you see AVB's half a season at Academica as significant.
Guyver
Would Bergkamp come to Spurs? I doubt it.Sounds like a good Dutch pair and I would welcome that.I still feel Pochettinno the wisest choice as he has proved he can cut it in the Premiership with a small club.Imagine what he could do with our resources and fabulous fans!
Greavesaboveall
I'm not sure but I think I read somewhere once that Berkamp was a Spurs fan as a kid. So, you never know.
MAN ON!
My point being jod. Man Utd are exactly the same type of club you mention in your article. A club with vast resources, once the richest club in the World, so why can't Moyes just walk in and win the league the same as LVG at Barca or Ajax?. Could it not be argued that on this basis, the manager and his methods must not be ignored also?, if it was just about winning at clubs where it is expected, i put UTD in that bracket, so why isn't it working there with Moyes?.
Cider spurs
Referring to LVG. Managers can have the best squad but as we know that does not guarantee success. He is quite a talented manager and if he become available we should snap him up. COYS!
James1
Spurs have always had a strong following in Holland because of our traditional reputation as a good and entertaining footballing club. The ways of Ajax have always had a similar tradition.
MAN ON!
what year did AVB win the thursday spoon Italian?
tophobunty1882
ManOn thats very true about Holland.
tophobunty1882
One more point i feel worthy of a mention. Some managers crumple under the pressure of managing a big club, a big club who expects to win the league on a regular basis, carries a whole new different level of pressure. LVG has proved he can handle the pressure.
Cider spurs
Van Gaal, also won the Dutch league with AZ, (surely an overchievement), along with a 3rd place finish and a cup final appearance.......If he were to achieve a similar level of success at Spurs over the next 3 years he'd be a club legend!! I agree with the comment regards Levy's initial instincts on AVB, but until we (fans and management) give a manager time (3-4 years) to fully implement his ideas then we will continue to come close with no cigar. We have tried all kinds of different managers over the last 14 years and the only consistency we've had is when things get tough the fans call for change and management makes the change. This has proven not to work, why not try something different!
Paul - THFC Forever
Cider indeed he has, i think the discussion issue here might be around do we want someone at an early stage in his career or a late stage? I guess there can be pluses and minuses for both. I am not sure he is a fit for us, taking into account the logic of the article, which I wouldn't question. Assuming it will be a man of course.
tophobunty1882
MAN ON! I read that Bergkamp rumor as well, but found out he was a fan of Hoddle but not Spurs.
Guyver
Guyver, Cheers.
MAN ON!
Paul on that basis it must be Maclaren then?
tophobunty1882
Greaves, I think that's a good call on the Southampton guy.
tophobunty1882
Cider spurs - You're ignoring the Glazier factor. If United's resources had been pumped into the team they would have a much better squad and Moyes might have been able to do what you suggest. As it is money has been diverted to pay the Glazier's debts, they've been trying to keep United competitive while spending as little as possible. As a result the squad has been gradually hollowed out and now requires major investment, probably a completely new defence as a start. Having cash only works if its actually spent on the team.
jod
Toppers, hi. In fine fettle I see! Good stuff. I'm on the phone so not gonna type the names of our 7 signings last summer, many of whom had other big clubs after them, in particular eriksen and lamela, as well as paulinho. All stated they wanted to work under AVB. That's by the by, the kudos point relates to the successes a manager has achieved in his career generating a desire for top players wanting to play for him. I can't be bothered finding any proof for you. But feel free to look for yourself, as I'm sure you will. ;-)
Dublin Hotspur
Paul - THFC Forever - Had he won the Dutch league with AZ when Ajax were at their best then sure that would have been an over achievement. But the fact that he won the league while having zero impact in Europe tells you just how far Dutch domestic football had fallen away, it just wasn't a strong league any more.
jod
Thanks Topo.I believe Pochettinno is on Levy's radar along with De Boer.Both would be sound appointments as they believe in attacking football allied with good tactics and a great coaching system.Let's hope one of them gets the job in the summer.I'd love to be able to sit back and watch a well organised system of coaching at Spurs instead of the incomprehensible chop and change policy of the Levy years.
Greavesaboveall
Jod, so Steve Maclaren then? (smiley thing)
tophobunty1882
Dublin, we had a transfer "committee" of 3 people did we not? Where did all 7 state publicly they came here because they wanted to play for AVB and not THFC or the prem or england or the money or a combination of the above? The most recent success he had as a manager in the most similar of jobs was to get sacked for failing to manage a collection of top players well at Chelsea. So you have no proof to back up your very big claim? what make the claim?
tophobunty1882
that would indeed be good Greaves.
tophobunty1882
jod...I do agree to a point. I'm still of the view Utd are considered to be vastly under achieving this season. Rooney £250 000 per week, suggests that they still do have a bit of cash about. I'm not even suggesting that LVG is my first choice, i am actually of the view De Boer and Bergkamp would be a better fit, another whom i think implemented some good ideas and was able to bring youth through the ranks, take no bull and had his team improving season on season whilst playing some beautiful football is Rijkaard. Might seem a bit out there, and might not seem to dis-similar to Sherwood, but he did take a mediocre Barca side and turn them into champions whilst rebuilding the team and introducing talent.
Cider spurs
I've said before that my ideal would be for LVG to come in the summer, hopefully get us moving in the right direction and after a couple of years, De Boer coming in to take us forward long term. If only it were so simple.
MAN ON!
Cider ref United, something like this has been coming for about 3 years, Fergie got out at the right time, they got away with it big time last year largely due to Chelsea and City's problems and Arsenal only playing half the season, plus us shooting ourselves in the foot. They have had at the very least a gaping hole in midfield which Fergie did nothing about, his hands may have been tied. it's been coming. Injury to Van Persie against last season's return plus the change of manager and its a bit worse than it might have been. I picked them for 5th before the start of the season in our little pub pick the league competition and that is about where they look like finishing unless Rooney and Van Persie go all Gareth Bale on us. Mata wont make much difference if they continue to try to break world records for the number of crosses in a game, as good as he is.
tophobunty1882
jod, for a manager to get a team to where they supposedly ought to be is all you can ever expect. Surely they have to be recognised for their achievement. So many managers consistently fail to do this. It's regular success that makes a good manager great and a lack of it that sees a mediocre one so often fail.
MAN ON!
Supporters on Vital Spurs seem to be getting a bit like Newcastle supporters in their search for a Messiah. In this case the desperation seems to be for a foreign messiah. Nobody is begging for a very experienced British manager like Steve Bruce or Mick McCarthy on the lines of Redknapp because that does not sound glamorous enough. Yet take a look at the rare Tottenham managerial successes: Nicholson a British internal appointment, Burkenshaw ( in the cups when they were more fashionable ) internal British appointment, and Redknapp also British. Are you starting to get the point ? In any event I suspect that if Sherwood finishes in top five your man for next season is going to be Timmy !!!
cynicspur
Not sure why most posters on VS are talking so strongly about a new manager when the current head coach has achieved good results in the short time he has been in charge. The least we could do is give the guy a chance to take his coat off and settle in before we kick him out. And we talk about the need for consistency?! If TS read this he would have to wonder why he bothered with a lose/lose job in the first place. imo
Geofspurs
Geofspurs, I agree, but it's okay to speculate. I certainly back Sherwood and we never know, he could be the one that we're all waiting for.
MAN ON!
MAN ON! - Brian Clough got Forest to where they ought to be ? seriously ?
jod
jod, Clough was special and a one-off. How many "Cloughs" have there been since?
MAN ON!
Bill Nicholson was also special, Spurs being his first and only ever managerial position.
MAN ON!
.... It's for that reason I'll not write-off Tim after just 2 months in the hot seat.
MAN ON!
Jod, my point was not about the strength of the Dutch league, it was about the fact that AZ are not considered one of the 3 biggest teams in Holland, but Van Gaal was still able to achieve success. Utd are not having a great season, but I'm sure whoever wins the Prem this year will still consider themselves worthy winners. As far as I am concerned a trophy means you're a winner and Spurs have had good squads and overachieved for almost a decade, but lack a winning mentality which Van Gaal would surely bring having won everywhere he has been, regardless of budget
Paul - THFC Forever
MAN ON! - Agreed he was a one off, all really successful managers are, but both Ferguson at Aberdeen and Mourinho at Porto also over achieved. To say all you can expect is to get a team to where they are supposed to be is both defeatist and wrong. History shows if you can find the right person you can do better, obviously its not easy. If it was every one would have done it.
jod
Paul - THFC Forever - When assessing what a manager has achieved you surely have to take account of the opposition. Steve Maclaren has also won a Dutch title with a smaller team, no one as far as I know is suggesting he is a world beating manager. Mourinho's reputation was not made on what he did in domestic Portugese football but what he did in Europe where the opposition was a lot tougher.
jod
Ok how about this as a scenario, bring in Van Gaal for 2 years to teach TS and embed him with a plan a philosophy, and some tactical nous, start the plan and then leave TS to continue the growth and the delivery !!
totuae
jod, I think I probably didn't make myself clear enough. I understand what your saying but I believe a good manager is one who wins consistently regardless of the team and/or league. I'm not so sure that Barca, as much as any team, would be as successful with the same squad but with a mediocre man in charge.
MAN ON!
I'm not in the slightest bit defeatist jod. In fact I'm the complete opposite.
MAN ON!
Geof very very good point and 3-0 to you.........Paul, point taken, so Maclaren it must be then because he has done it more recently........Totuae, that is a good plan if the two egos can work together ........
tophobunty1882
football gone mad.....this is what you really want in a dog fight....8 million quid record transfer, more than half way through the season, 1 GOAL (first game of the season) and not a hair out of place...now the tw)art's Ya Ya's PR agent....get rid. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26135049
tophobunty1882
tophobunty1882, I feel the opposite. I think WolfsWilly should be commended for that.
MAN ON!
if you were a norwich supporter you might not feel the same way, most i know want to hang him from a tree in their gardens, tosser. (not you)
tophobunty1882
8 million quid and he ponses around like he's just running from the big brother studio to the hairdressers
tophobunty1882
i dont want PR ladyboy i want goals......there that's a refreshing new approach to management expecting a footballer to give something back......
tophobunty1882
May be, but it's YaYa that's the tosser. Great player but a dirty one.
MAN ON!
Yeah, but Hughton is a gentleman as far as I can see.
MAN ON!
Jod - Sorry, but what has McClaren done as a head coach before or after winning the Dutch league to warrant a mention in this conversation? Van Gaal teams have had continued success wherever he has gone, regardless of the size of the club or the competition they faced, this cannot be disputed. He is also considered by many to be one of the best coaches in Europe and in my opinion we'd be lucky to have a coach of his standing and with his CV in charge.
Paul - THFC Forever
Hughton is just that, probably a bit too nice and probably a bit too negative/defensive. They might well go down with his approach a must win for them tonight, have you seen their last 4 fixtures?
tophobunty1882
Perhaps Soldado would be in the same position as Van Wolfswinkle, were it not for his penalties. The only differences being that at least Van Wolfswinkle can still get into the team, and that Soldado cost £26M or 3 times what Van Wolfswinkle cost, so he has scored 5 x £5M penalties up until now, and is now a bench warmer, so who look the biggest mugs, Norwich or Spurs.
Frank
Paul on the theory based on discussion here and the article above that LVG has only done things with clubs who have the budgets, standing and clear expectations to win something ( bit like you or i managing celtic, bet they wont finish 2nd if we did). Rule that experience out then because we ain't them. next nearest is his Dutch triumph which Maclaren has done more recently. Just following logic and what others are posting and the very good article above.
tophobunty1882
Paul - THFC Forever - "regardless of the size of the club" ? The whole point is he's never done what Clough, Ferguson and Mourinho all managed with smaller clubs. That's the whole point.
jod
Frank very good point and the one I mentioned to my whinging Norrridge supporting friends to'ther night in the pub, he could have cost 26 million lads come on........
tophobunty1882
Frank, plus the 30 million we spent on the invisible man......and while we are on that subject where is Baldini? Can you remember the festation round here by the honourable members when he came on board? corrr mate...they was on some powerful fluids back then.....any must dash...have fun
tophobunty1882
Jod - Other than the names mentioned who has? Van Gaal has won with big clubs and has won with a smaller club. Based on his track record he has brought success regardless the size of club that is my point. The fact that McClaren has also won in that league does not make the achievement any less significant.
Paul - THFC Forever
No wonder that we're considered a Jewish club - we're waiting for the Messiah. One called Brian perhaps? Ah well - always look on the bright side of life, Dah dah, dah dah, dah dah.
Love totty
Good article. We certainly need to over-achieve to reach top4, which is the main reason we'll struggle to be regulars in it atm. With a bigger ground we can close the gap, but financially speaking (I'm no mathspert, either) does 20,000 x 19 make THAT much difference to the overall Sky Premier deal? The fans used to pay to keep the clubs going but now their input is much less tbh.
jerkinmahjurgen
jerkinmahjurgen, It's also about the vastly increased revenue from shirt sales, burgers, beers, membership etc.
MAN ON!
Have to disagree that Levy is a poor judge of manager. Redknapp's a good manager - just a swine with it. AVB isn't bad, is he? Quad with Porto, unbeaten, his ratio here.... True he's got no clout or tact but didn't we get offered £10m? Sherwood, despite not even being a manager, lolol, looks to have all the credentials. Thank God we signed Ramos for a few months or we wouldn't be able to wind the ars up. In all honesty it's the character and personality you've got to get right, ALONG with ability!. Would Louis the Un-smiler get away with it now? Is Sherwood, a local (certainly in respect to our foreign managers) easier to judge? Than a foreign character? I find it really difficult to judge a foreigners class. But AVB, you could TELL he was as posh as *****. I don't think class itself is massively important but it's quite useful to know. We all kind of do it. Not judge by it but recognize someones standing, if you like. Think of someone really upper-class being considered for the Spurs job and... are you thinking they could do it? Unfortunately, it ain't the sixties.
jerkinmahjurgen
The best managers will not come here for the reaons being we cannot afford them and secondly we cannot give them the resources they want. We need a manager that can over achieve like Brendon at Liverpool, Martinez, will they over achieve enough to get CL verdict is still out. To break into that top four we need more revenue to entice better players and a better manager, to do that we need Levy to get the stadium done and to try and generate more income. This is why Levy sells players and buys players whether the manager wnats them or not, to make money. The question is this, does he do this to reinvest or to make money for Lewis and himself? I think the problem we have is Levy EXPECTING top four from a manager that is not one of the top managers with limited resources, alwasy balancing the books, its not going to happen unless we get lucky with a up and coming manager who over achieves or we manage to get a top manager like Gaal who comes cheaper as he just wants the challenge and he manages to achieve under the financial restrictions, that is the gamble because a lot of top managers achieve because they do have financial backing, although as the article says, they achieve with smaller clubs first then become top managers who then only go to top teams where the money is available, more for players than their wage I suspect. can't see mourinho going to a smaller club now where funds are limited.
WorldPeace
I believe that the conclusion we can draw from this excellent article is that in order to move to the next level, Spurs need a combination of wealthier and, mainly, more ambitious with the club owners. Once we have moved to the next level and have stayed there for a period of time, it would be easier to move to/build a bigger stadium, like it was the case with all big clubs world-wide. Specially if meanwhile we have achieved to win some domestic or international titles/trophies. But first the club needs those wealthy and ambitious with winning silverware on the field owners.
Ioan X
Just maybe if given the chance we already have that manager. Let's see how TS progresses over the rest of the season.
jvd
Our choice of manager should come down to onw thing, the system and style of football we want to play. Its no good getting one with great man-management skills but a preferance to play a 5-4-1 defensive game. This is where LVG or RDB excel and should be our only choices, although Pep and Rik are from the same school, I think the LVG rumours have something to them. We just have to hope Utd don't sack Moyes and move for him too. With Ajax he used a 4-3-3, with Barca a 2-3-2-3 but the Dutch currently play his Ajax system which is proactive and fluid, epitomised by their midfield, which includes a controller in front of the defence with a box-to-box midfielder (Strootman) and playmaker ahead: ideal for our players already at the club too. Rea
sukhothai
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/van-gaals-vision-seeks-recreate-football-utopia

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2528329/What-Tottenham-getting-appointed-Louis-Van-Gaal-manager.html

http://www.fifa.com/world-match-centre/news/newsid/667/683/index.html

sukhothai
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2556892/Tim-Sherwood-fears-exodus-Spurs-stars-including-Hugo-Lloris-Jan-Vertonghen.html
ghulamville
and what the hell is happenning to this fictitious stadium of ours.knowing our luck it wont happen in our lifetime
ghulamville
in other new erik lamela (the invisible man)has sufferred another setback
ghulamville
Toppers Hun. I refer you to my post which included you searching the facts. I am a humble man and will stand corrected if the evidence proves me wrong. Point was our new signings signed up on the back of avbs kudos ( at the time) and his plan. Go on, do it, find the ball!
Dublin Hotspur
also chirices is sidelined
ghulamville
Rumour mill is saying we could be interested in Sebastien Corchia again, I hope so. A fantastic rightback who can actually defend, cross and hit a mean freekick. Only 23 and available in the summer after his move from Sochaux to Lille broke down. Then we can get either get rid of Walker to PSG or Chelsea for a fortune, or get rid of Lennon and push Walker to RW, which is where he spends the game anyway.
sukhothai
Dublin, this is your statement, you could back it up if questioned, if not it has not foundation and then you revert to the personal approach, I would suggest you would back it up if the evidence was easily available, if not why suggest it without any foundation. Would love to be interviewing you for a job next week.
tophobunty1882
Think Ioan sums it up very well.
tophobunty1882
I'll interview you tops. Reckon you'd get in the PA pool! Maybe. Seriously though. Why do you have to be so obstinate? Relax, arsenal be playing away again soon . Or is it the fact you actually did get soldado printed on your shirt and now you don't fancy him anymore:-)
Dublin Hotspur
Dublin, its simple I asked you to show supporting evidence to back up a statement you made and you refused, who is obstinate? and you go personal. Lets talk about the content only if you can. This we can leave now because I asked and you said no.
tophobunty1882
What is Slavan Bilic doing these days? Could he be worth a punt? Did great with Croatia, played bright attacking football and the players seem to love playing for him. Klopp is another I'd like to see at Spurs but is probably out of our reach and FDB will probably wait till after the WC, and to be fair is in no hurry to leave the Ajax post. COYS!
James1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgNP_ybIcAAdQho.jpg:large
logos8
it's liverpool compared to man U. saw it on twitter
logos8
Good article, spot on
gatch75
Excellent article but not sure whether Levy picks the wrong managers. Difficult to tell because apart from Redknapp, who virtually sacked himself, he never gave anybody else long enough, sacked one during the second half of a game.
matt hoten
I cannot fathom how most of you call for LVG or another big time charlie when we have a coach that played from the club and has coached from the youth team up and understands the ethos of Spurs. Who gives a feck if he isn't a famous european coach (AVB anyone?) or wears a suit at games. You can only judge a manager by the results and so far he has performed exceptionally. Ok, so we lost to man city, who will no doubt win the league and dropped points against Hull. Spurs of old would have lost that game on Sunday but we have a bit of self belief instilled in us and he has got Ade performing again. Get off Sherwood's back and support the entire club, not just the parts that you like. Rant over, soapbox away!!
woodyn17
woody good points, ney very good points
tophobunty1882
On a slight change of subject I find it very interesting that Hugo Lloris has laughed off the suggestion from his French teammate Oliver Giroud that he would be open to the possibility of joining Arsenal, plus he has done it on the Tottenham club website. It is good he has been quick to distance himself from Giroud's comment, well done Hugo.
Ox Yid
It is, Ox but he should've insulted the club whilst he done it. All the rubbish we have to listen to from a couple of their so anagramic players I can't even begin to spell one out. What's the problem with vowels? Imagine Arsenal with a good keeper! I wouldn't like that at all.
jerkinmahjurgen
mourinho defending a 1-0 lead instead of trying to kill the game and west brom equalize. 6 mins of added time
logos8
good one logos, we can win the league now then. did you get out of the taxi with Italian the other night?
tophobunty1882
tophobunty1882 - Exactly, in basic terms it seems to me that as a club we need a long term manager, with the ability to get the best out of the team. I would say looking at what he's done with Ajax (along with some very good coaching staff) that De Boer would be a good fit.
rahn DMC
I think Levy is playing Sir Alan Sugar in the apprentice when it comes to selecting/firing managers. The main culprit at Spurs is Levy (also to an extent, the Board) as whoever it is, hasn't got a clue about football. The buck should always stop at the TOP. When he hired AVB he said the club was looking to move in a different direction. Funny he never elaborated on that! Starts a project with a new manager and ends the project with a youth coach. Are we now heading for yet another direction?. A direction change in summer also?. Honestly, if I made so many poor judgements in my job, I would never be able to get another job at the same level. Levy is squandering ENIC's money whilst still earning handsomely. I wished I had a job like that!

Sorry for the rant!. On topic however, nice article Jod. With players you can have a mix of superstars and future superstars. However, with managers, in modern game, it has to be someone who has a proven tactical record, who has worked miracles with limited resources and looking for the break, e.g., Martinez,...even Moyes. I say Moyes, because IMO, Everton to United was too big a step for him. Also, the squad left behind by SAF was reaching it's sell-by date. Inheriting our squad would be a big lure for many candidates out there. Hope Timmy does well and hangs on to the job, else, hope Levy makes a more learned decision next time round. COYS!
Critical_Spur
So for all you lot that say I am deluded about us still being able and that we should get fourth, look at tonight's results eh. HA HA HA ALL the top teams are dropping points all over the place, so as I said FOURTH IS OURS TO LOSE.
chrishove123
Managers .... Is it easier for a manager to guide a great team to win trophies, or for a manager of a poor team to avoid relegation?! Who has the hardest task?
Geofspurs
Just read the article. Good one it is, jod. Yes, we need to get lucky in a way with the manager. We do have a great squad. We need a manager who can come in, motivate the squad, choose the players appropriately on match days, make correct subs, get the formation and tactics right, maximise the players potential with the right training/advice and keep the consistency going for the entire season. Yep, pretty straight forward ;-)
Madaboutspurs
Mad ... and buy the right players, combat the conflicts from the Board, rise above the negative speculation from the media and supporters, and be favoured by the footballing Gods ... very straight forward! :-)
Geofspurs
And sabotage the other top teams who all want the same thing ... just gets easier and easier!
Geofspurs
Thank you, WBA!
Geofspurs
Yes Geofspurs, and all that too. It is not lost to me that we are only 8 points from the top if both us and Arsenal win tomorrow. It is going to be tight. We are not playing pretty at the moment to say the least but we are raking in the points. If TS can get the team to click up another gear or 2, you'll never know. Also,also we have a secret weapon in Lewis Holtby.
Madaboutspurs
I love being "deluded" it makes for a very interesting life.
chrishove123
I am more deluded than you chrishove. I want us to always aim for the top and if TS can work some miracle(yes, it will have to be nothing short of that) and we win every game from now, we will put some serious pressure for the title. There you go....deluded.
Madaboutspurs
Dublin - that's my main concern who would be attracted by Timee and Les ? Judging from his latest inspirational press conference about we could lose up to 5 games and still qualify for CL - can you imagine those players not being able to start till 35 mins every game be motivated to start sooner….NOT !!!! On another point - would really like the L'Arse and L'pool to lose points tonight
Highgatespur
mad/chris ... I think we're going to win the CL THIS year ... now that's deluded! :-)
Geofspurs
topho unfortunately we do not have avb anymore to help us punch above our weight like he did at chelsea. I am still exiled after my taxi ride, just popping out occasionally hoping no one notices.
logos8
I'm still amazed by the MOTM poll! Lloris made one awesome save, but had to do little else, that was beyond normal keeping, for the rest of the game. Ade ran his socks off all game, imo!
Geofspurs
A draw between Liverpool and Arsenal will do nicely for me thanks, Highgatespur.

Geofspurs, you 'win'. You are delusional. Go increase your meds ;-)
Madaboutspurs
Mad .... Yep, a draw would be good ... especially if we win!

The doc said, 'Unfortunately, you're a Spurs supporter for which there is no cure and, therefore, no hope'. He explained that any medication is pointless, (although I disagreed on that because Bacardi seems to work wonders). He actually seemed disinterested in my general health but, on the way out, I noticed a framed photo of a certain Mr Wenger on his wall, which might explain his lack of concern and the fact that he was twitching a lot during the consultation!. Anyway, what's wrong with being delusional, if it gets you through the day?!
Geofspurs
Wow! I just noticed Lloris took to the Official site to dispel the rumours of him and Arsenal. Thanks Hugo, nicely done.
Madaboutspurs
logos, are you saying you know better than Mourinho? Getting sacked by Chelsea or Spurs is no yardstick for any manager.
ItalianYiddo
topho, AVB won the EUFA cup in 2010 I think.
ItalianYiddo
Tonyrich, interfering in football matters is not backing your coach. Any self respecting coach would not take it. If you want a lapdog employ the youth coach.
ItalianYiddo
Geofspurs, the reason that Llorris is MOTM is because if that shot goes in Everton win the game, they were the better team by far their only problem was not having much upfront with Lukaku missing.
ItalianYiddo
IY ... and what happens if Ade's shot does not go in?!
Geofspurs
AVB was sacked.
tophobunty1882
use the big yellow taxi logos, be safe.
tophobunty1882
Italian i think it might have been 2011 they last won it, which year did CL teams first drop in to Eufa?
tophobunty1882
Critical_Spur, totally agree on your thoughts on Levy! But ultimately it is Joe Lewis who is totally responsible, because he has allowed the Apprentice to carry on season after season, hiring and firing coach after coach at will, whilst the THFC trophy cabinet remains empty, and the club fails to make the CL whilst paying him a salary of 2.5 million quid a year! Levy of course is kept and given free licence to play real live fantasy football with our club because Lewis has little or no interest in the footballing side of the club, his only interest is the hundreds of millions he will make when he sells. If Lewis can find some mug to put up 350 half million half a decade before the stadium is built for the naming rights then Lewis will build the stadium and sell up on it's completion, if not, he will sell the package of a football club with a huge fan base, a top 5-6 level squad, and the land and the planning permission for the next owner to do what Lewis will never do, which is pay or borrow the money from the bank to build the stadium like the Arsenal did who are now milking it, having totally blown THFC away on stadium revenue front! It's naming rights or nothing for ENIC regarding the new stadium. Sir Keith Mills THFC director explains. "The new stadium can only go ahead when £350m funding is secured. To do that, the club need to sell the naming rights. “We don’t have that in place and that’s an integral part of the financing,” says Mills. “Once we get that, it’ll open up the rest of the funding... Until the football mercenary sells up, Loser Levy's 2.5 mil a season salary is safe... ENIC OUT!!!
Pele10
Pele, this huge fan base must be a bunch of fools hey ? How could such a huge fan base grow for such a farcical club. Wouldn't believe it would you.
tophobunty1882
Pele10 Don't be so silly Lewis isn't going to have a new stadium built. Didn't you see the papers yesterday? Wet Spam are putting Their stadium up for sale, so, THAT is what we are buying as OUR next stadium. No build, no messy crap everywhere, just simply move in and occupy. Is THAT a good enough scenario for you to take in? I don't know why YOU didn't come up with it just to try and show how cheap a club we are. You actually sound like a jealous little boy the way you keep on mentioning the two and a half mill. Levy gets per annum. Is THAT what your REAL problem is, that you are skint flat on your arse and can't stand to see him making that sort of money right under your nose when we are making slow but steady progress over the years. Or is it that you are one of those who subscribe to splash the cash and BUY our way to the top. Remember the slatings cited got when they did it? You want us to go down a route with NO honour, excitement or respectability and not see us do things properly, i.e. fight our way to the top over the next few more years. No excitement because we will then EXPECT us to win every game, that's when it will become a drag because we obviously won't, and then people like YOU will come on here whining and moaning about the three games we lost and the other four we drew. Sometimes you just can't win where certain people are concerned.
chrishove123
It's nice to be amongst fellow deluded, mad people. LOL COYS
chrishove123
IY lol. no. It was just funny that's all. Happy that the draw spices things up a bit at the top. Arsenal and City are still in it, but I think City will win it.
logos8
IY I just liked the contrast of chelsea trying to protect a 1 goal lead compared to how liverpool played when they were several goals up against Arsenal. They played like they wanted to win 12-0. But that doesn't mean Rodgers is better than Mourinho. Not even you would come up with such a naive logic. Mourinho can have bad days at the office but he is still one of top 3 managers in the world, if not the best.
logos8
Tim Sheerwood is a Dork, loks like Dork , Acts like a Dork , clueless as Dork. ... He is a Dork. Please , Please Please he needs to step down. He can stay at the club, I realise he is a long time servant of the club. I appreciate that. He can bring the water bottles out for the boys during training and half time , during game stoppages and interuptions , I don't that. This is a pathetic fool, He is worse than Harry when coming to tac tics , game plan or a back -up plan. Only an idiot would sent Holtby out and play Bentalab. Ade is Ade, don't mistake Ade's goals that lead to a few lucky wins, yes fortunate wins for TS success. We need a top quality Manager in place if we are going to qualify for Champions League year after year.. Forget about the present season - Levy *****ed that up already.. Levy step down , leave and take Ts and Bentalab and Walker with you as our parting gift... BYE BYE
Vital Hotspur
Another happy Spurs fan.... Enjoy the match tonight VH.
MAN ON!
Some people aren't cut out to be managers; some people aren't cut out to be players; and, it seems, some people aren't cut out to be supporters!
Geofspurs
 

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