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Time for ENIC to go!

Less than four years ago we qualified for the Champions League. A perfect opportunity one would think to take the club to the next level.

We had Bale and Modric, two of the finest players in Europe and with some sensible investment, it was not a great stretch to establish our club as genuine title contenders. What has happened since then is a chairman who almost immediately warned us not to expect Champions League football every year and has unbelievably spent the last three and a half seasons showing a profit on transfers whilst selling our best players.

I am firmly of the opinion that the owners were frightened of Champions League football and the extra investment in transfers and salaries that continuing Champions League football would demand. I don't believe they wanted to take that risk. I hear arguments on this site saying that these players wanted to leave. Other players notably Suarez at Liverpool also wanted to leave their clubs. The difference between Liverpool and Spurs is that Liverpool made it perfectly clear that their best players were not leaving. They even lied about Suarez's contract and mocked potential purchasers.

We on the other hand make it perfectly clear that these players are for sale at the right price. I have no doubt that if Liverpool encouraged an auction for Suarez, they would have got £60m for him (not quite Bale money but a substantial sum none the less). The difference is, Liverpool were not going to sale under any circumstances whilst everyone knows we are a selling club. Players now see Spurs as a selling club and I believe the ownership are not unhappy with this position.

Daniel Levy has got almost every managerial appointment wrong. Amazingly, he managed to fall out with and fire the only manager who achieved top four status (he managed it twice). I know they had differences, but how about finding a way to work together. I can't imagine any other business where a chief executive/chairman would make so many spectacularly bad decisions and yet still retain his position.

The current situation sums everything up. A manager with no experience has been thrown in at the deep end, given an 18 month contract and has had to work with the full knowledge that the chairman immediately started looking for his replacement. Not only is this bad business, it is also shameful behaviour.

The reason Levy is still in a job is because the owners do not see success on the pitch as a priority. It is all about the balance sheet and placing the club in a position for a sale. We were promised a new stadium 14 years ago. We still have not started building. The latest delay is apparently due to one company holding out for more money than their property is worth. We are talking about a £400m investment. I suspect that an additional £1m would probably be enough to bring this matter to a conclusion. But it seems to be dragging on and on.

As far as I am aware, no naming rights have been secured, the project has not gone out to tender and no finance has been agreed. These seems to me to be rather large obstacle still to be overcome. I have read on this site that Joe Lewis/ENIC will be providing some of the funding. This may be trues but I expect it will be in the form of a loan repayable with interest at commercial rates.

Whilst I accept that building a stadium in the Tottenham area is a difficult project, especially in the current economic climate, I do not accept the constant delays. Do ENIC really want to build the stadium, do they have doubts about the whole project - I am not sure I know the answer to this. I do know that we are struggling to fill the stadium at the moment. There were several empty seats at the recent game against Man City.

I do accept that ENIC have done some good for our club. They have made us financially stable and have built a fantastic training complex, but I do not think they have the will to take our club forward and for that reason I wish they would sell now and give us our club back.

Written by jonathan01




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The journalist

Writer: jonathan01 Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday March 10 2014

Time: 12:00PM

Your Comments

They have no strategy, they have little vision and whilst they've been competent in handling the finances their inability to make the right investments at the right time have consistently hampered the progress of the club. In any other business our executives would long ago been removed for achieving continuous failure to achieve our goals. Our board and owners have consistently been penny wise and pound foolish'. The sooner they cash in and get out, the better. I'm sick of their inability to make a decision and see it through. WE all know that our next manager no matter how great his credentials will be lucky to get two seasons before he too is stabbed in the back or undermined. Please ENIC just take your profit and just go.
Spursex
agree 100% ex, Levy and Enic have continued to oversee one footballing cock up after another and someone has to be culpable. Wasn't it Levy who was supposedly a strong advocate of Sherwood, and yet he is seemingly happy to see him fed to the wolves, just as long as he and enic are ok
oxfordspur
Better the Devil you know? How many sensnible club owner are out their who will run the club with fiscal restraint, not saddle us with the debt incurred to buy the club, while also throwing crazy money at transfer fees and wages and then sit back and allow a manager who is clearly struggling continuing to do so as the club slips further and further from contention?
Slurms McKenzie
Slurms ... I agree with you. Financial nous is Levy's saving grace! It could be a lot worse.
Geofspurs
Still most were singing his name after the summer trasnfer window!
Slurms McKenzie
Yes Geof but after last weekend its cold comfort!
Slurms McKenzie
Levy is a competent business manager, nothing more, nothing less. If that's the extent of people's ambition then so be it. I'd prefer to have owners that a) have a greater interest in the clubs progress other than sitting in Florida or on the water and seemingly showing no other interest b) prepared to do what's best for the club, not what's best for their own interests.
Spursex
YES!!
WestStandEnclosure
Bring back Irving Scholar! COYS!
James1
Spurex I read your post as a complete contridiction. For if Levy stuck to the competent business manager side of it rather then showing so much of an interest in the footballing side and especially trying to do what he feels is best for the club then we wouldn't really be having these debates!!
Slurms McKenzie
Perhaps the likes of Baldini should have more of a public profile and have the odd press conference to expalin what they are working on and where they envision the club going rather then us lot dumping every misfortune the club suffers at Levy's door?
Slurms McKenzie
they hold the fans in contempt and don't even bother to respond to questions from the supporters trust...this lot take from the club but don't put anything in (levy pays himself millions)...all those saying how well run we are have yet to answer the 70m debt question???? Time for this lot to go, ENIC out!
shedboy2
Slurms I agree 100%. I just don't get why there is a lack of communication between club and supporters. We know nothing apart what we see and hear via the media. ENIC can't be oblivious to what is going on. Maybe they don't care about the support, just care about the colour of money. COYS!
James1
Just like any player, the club is for sale. Always has been. If you have close to 1B Spurs can be yours. They will not sell unless someone gives them what tbey would get in 5-10 years. Heck, this season, not having spent the new TV money and made a nominal transfer gain, they stand to have 35M in pocket, at a minimum. Golden goose that is. Further, all the stars will want out. None will want to come. Cha-ching. More profit next season and a manager that likely costs what his experience merits. Why leave before you strip the club out. Surely these ogres will do that, at the very least, and earn the misplaced vitriol they come in for.

Fact is, every year, up to this one, they have suffered a nominal loss or made a nominal profit. That's what the audited league reports state. Fact is, they suck at letting the people they hire on the football side to do their jobs. They are not perfect. Lots of room to improve. Could be worse. Pompey, Leeds, Blackburn, West Ham, Fulham. GO TIGERS. COYS
peterballb
Re: The stadium. The way I see it is very simple: We are not just in the process of building a new stadium. It is about the regeneration and rebuilding of the local infrastructure of the whole of the Tottenham area. This is no mean feat and cannot be achieved overnight and, it's not THFC's total responsibility... (Someone on here wrote that the area and good people of N17 does not/do not deserve it!). That has got to be the most prejudice and inane comment about this project I've ever read or heard... ENIC in. The grass is not always greener.....
MAN ON!
A very well written article Jonathan. You've summed up my feelings precisely. ENIC have been good for us and have stabilised us financially so that we're now ready to move on to the next level. We've been ready for the past 4 or 5 years. Unfortunately they're now not interested in risking any more of their money to move us forward. Too much risk doesn't work for ENIC. Unfortunately they're also greedy (both Lewis and Levy) so they won't sell cheap. Whilst we are stalled in this ridiculous Mexican stand-off our team and our club suffer as we fall away from the challengers for the title and CL qualification. As fans we're typically impatient but I think ENIC have been given more than enough time to prove they're committed to improving us further. They've failed to deliver so they should do the decent thing and sell for a fair price. We all know what Levy thinks is a fair price so any potential sale is very unlikely in the short to middle term.
SpuriousLife
Excellent article Jonathan. Levy should be the company’s accountant, not running the show. I only have two small disagreement and one is about Redknapp. He would not have continued to get us top4 without Modric and Bale and even King with his dodgy knees was still world class, and his signings were not very imaginative. But I think you were alluding to that anyway. Also it might be interesting to see if Suarez stays at Liverpool for another year
matt hoten
Spurious the only problem with that analysis is that the further we fall away from contention the less the club will be worth and the bigger the investment for any new owne rwhich would drive down the profit Enic/levy/lewis woudl stand to make?
Slurms McKenzie
Ok Enic or formerly known as English National Investment Company ! the clue is in the name, Joe Lewis holds 81% and DL 29% or there abouts, they are a investment company not a sports company, they will take their dividend and bonus each year and just keep smiling, they have no interest in CL at all and are very short sighted as success breeds success, and failure breeds failure, Mid table mediocrity will keep them smiling and the fans will keep buying, every year is a rebuild oh no sorry "Transition" year, but we never seem to move forward, do we want to move forward as in this day and age that would probably mean whoring ourselves out like the Chavs or *****eh and getting a sugar daddy that wants to change everything ala Mr Tan at Cardiff, The real issue here is DL treatment of managers and lets be honest, there aint much job security around WHL and lets not just think about the manager, when he goes then a whole bunch of backroom staff will follow him out of the door, so whilst we think AVB got the bullet maybe 10 others were also affected, plus their families who may have relocated etc, as for the stadium, each time they mention another old granny puts another little bit of her savings into ENIC so to keep it going and perpetuating the myth is good for business and keeps the coffers rolling in, and if they were to get a sponsor for the ground they would then actually have to start the project, I would not be at all surprised if the alleged company holding out for more money is not held by either Joe Lewis or DL in some dodgy offshore company name, nothing really surprises me other than people being surprised !!
totuae
wow I think I may have just started our own conspiracy theory !
totuae
I got too Liverpool could have encouraged a bidding war and got 60 million for Suarez! No they couldn't because only Arsenal were interested. If PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern etc. had bid 40 - 45 million for Suarez he would be playing for them it's that simple, you reference Modric but fail to mention the refusal to sell to Chelsea for more than what Arsenal offered Suarez! It's called balance, the article may make some verb good points but don't cherry pick "fCts"
spurticus87
Absolutely Slurms. Looked at the other way it makes ENIC's reluctance to make relatively small investments to push us into the CL even more foolish as the rewards (financial and on the field) have been within our grasp for the past 4 seasons. We've penny-pinched and missed out on £40m to £50m each season out repeatedly.
SpuriousLife
Sepul Quality/squad ? have you seen any of our recent games ? I do agree however that with the correct guidance and some steel and nuts shown by our squad we could compete at present we are not !! no wins against a top 4 team this season is my fact
totuae
last time we did a 'It's time to go' thread, AVB left a few weeks later, wonder if this does the trick too....
Ossie
Because as we know there's a string of unbelievably wealthy people just dying to sink billions into the club, honestly no Vincent Tan's at all. Stupid piece.
jod
To my way of thinking I'd rather keep ENIC than some of the other clubs' owners. BUT I just wish they would re-draw their model and make the football side of it an individual entity. Then every summer allow the football management team a fixed amount for player's transfers and wages etc. That's it, if the manager wants to buy above that amount then he has to sell to do so.......... ENIC must still retain overall say and responsibility for running the club as a whole. They dictate general financial turnover, wages, sponsorship and kit deals, but leave the footballing side alone, TOTALLY. .......... Let the manager say who he wants as backroom staff, medical staff and any thing to do with the footballing side. If necessary have a director of football to liaise between both parties. I would, personally, hate the idea of another owner coming in like the Birmingham chap who's now facing money laundering charges or that man Tan at Cardiff. Jeez we'll playing in red soon. As a business venture I don't think we would get much better owners but as a football club we certainly could!
longtimespur
What a biased and distorted opinion and, knee jerk reaction. ENIC ownership has produced a new training ground, a new stadium on the horizon, a better squad of players, but the worst audience who moan and grown if the show is not entertaining them. Then blame someone, ENIC. Levy Manager, Players, etc. Man Utd had to sell Ronaldo against thier will and Arsenal had to sell Van Persie. So its all down to ability to pay excess wages. - Man City and Chelsea are examples where money is no object. Apart from missing out on Brendan Rodgers most actions from ENIC have improved the club. Cannot say the same for audience!. To call some spectators football supporters would require a leap of imagination.
camper
I'm asking because i genuinely don't know, did suarez's £40m buy out clause mean that if a club offered £60m he could effectively by himself out of the contract and keep £20m, in which case it is not a comparison to Bale's contract. I'm no ENIC fan, i think their ambition is solely to maximise shareholder value when they leave. having said that no club can stop players going to real madrid, you can only try to put this off and to get maximum value which it seems ENIC has done. To me the stratergy would be different, i would look for the best up and coming players and demonstrate that playing to the best of their ability is the way to get a Real Madrid or Barca shirt
troffer2
jonathan01: I have to pull you up on one point in your article. It's simply not true that we are struggling to fill WHL.
MAN ON!
meant to say playing at spurs for a few years but i think you get the gist
troffer2
camper... Here, here.
MAN ON!
MAN ON. I got my tickets for the Man City game less than a week before the game. There were hundreds of empty seats in the ground - I am not exagarating. I am a member and until the last couple of seasons I found it really hard to get tickets and would be waiting on line for ages. Now I can log on at almost any time and get a ticket.
jonathan01
Re the selling of players, I don't remember Liverpool selling players when they were finishing sixth and seventh. Why should we have to. IMO there is a culture of selling at our club and everyone knows it.
jonathan01
Since the full time whistle on saturday there have been 4 articles posted. They in turn are slagging off a player, our head coach and our owners. I am not happy about this season or indeed our result against Chelsea, of course. But, this is all way over the top and I can't get my stupid little head around it. See you all on thursday... If I can be bothered .
MAN ON!
Sorry it's off topic but If anyone's interested our u21s are 4-1 up at half-time against WBA. Kane has 2, McEvoy and Ogilvie the others. (https://twitter.com/spursofficial) for regular updates.
longtimespur
Here's our U21 team vs WBA - McGee; McQueen, Stewart, Ogilvie, Fryers; Onomah, Veljkovic, Winks; McEvoy, Kane, Coulthirst.
longtimespur
Jonathan, Gerrard aside and he considered leaving they didn't have any good players too sell so that comparison is ridiculous and wait a minute........they sold Torres to Chelsea.....excellent response
spurticus87
As far as I'm aware Daniel Levy has always made it known that THFC is up for sale!!
longtimespur
Oh and Alonso to Real Madrid......
spurticus87
Mascherano, Miereless
spurticus87
MAN ON/sepul/logtime/camper ... Good posts guys!
Geofspurs
Unfortunately we cannot buy new players unless we sell ones we already have (the ENIC way)this is where we are always caught out as Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal at least give their managers money to send. Ours is from the proceeds of departing players.
spursnoob
MAN ON, IF you're still reading, this is one of the problems with some Spurs fans. Sorry but this is a Forum for fans to comment on and, as such, they are within their rights to say what they feel. Not that I agree with quite a lot but everyone has their opinion.
longtimespur
I think it's time to take a deep breath! This kind of day on vs happens every time get beaten. We HAVE been disorganised, chaotic and generally poor all season, agreed. But we lost to Chelsea at the weekend! The team that are unfortunately, likely to win the league this year! I could go into how we have performed against the top teams this season, but I won't, as we all know it! Too many goals conceded, not enough scored, heamoraging everywhere!
however, we are still in fifth and in the last 16 of the EL! Could we have anticipated this with hindsight into the kind of year we have had? No, not in my opinion! I understand there are issues right from the top to the bottom at our club, and they might well continue until we get some solid changes and direction communicated.
Only last week we were mostly saying how optimistic we were for march, 6 big games! We have played one of them, and we lost to the likely winners of the PL. The score line IMO does not tell the full story, as it didn't v city away. We have "capitulated" far too much and that's down to Tim to sort out. Nothing we can do now but hope for some success this month in the PL, qualify for the last 8 in the EL and keep going as best we can til may!

the club is in a mess, injuries, locker room, manager, and the direction of our owners, or lack of. But I for one still will support the club, the team and our owners. There is the stadium, Broomfield, new manager, all good news buzzing under the radar! As usual we are blind to the details and progress, and that's wrong, but there are a lot of positives there too! One game out of six in march lost, 5 big games still to play! Let's not knee jerk and let's get behind the club and players! We have to be careful what we wish for regarding owners. No guarantees of a good one!

right, time to get the bulletproof vest on and await a bashing!
Dublin Hotspur
MAN ON! mate I see your point, quite valid but I think we all saw this building up to a crescendo. Most of us have been suckered into this, me included. COYS!
James1
Transfer league.co.uk go check if out and then say they have been lining their pockets!
spurticus87
Fair point Spurticus re Torres. I take that one back. I think they knew he was past his best though. I still think we are a selling club. Thanks to everyone for all responses - I was just opening a debate.
jonathan01
No, I disagree that it is time for ENIC to go. Yes, Levy should hire a coach and then just butt out of first team affairs. Period.

But off the pitch, they have done a great job in comparison to where we were before they took over ... in fact, you could sat the same for our performances on the pitch. My advice is to concentrate on the Stadium, and stop interfering with the football.
SpursEagle
Afternoon Dubs..... we are only 5points in front of Toffees who have 2 games in hand. But only 6 points off 2nd . We are such a ****e team aren't we....lol
longtimespur
I'm off to walk the dog whilst the sun is shining. WBA have a second goal in the 72nd minute. 4-2 now. Catch up later.
longtimespur
longtimespur, Of course what you say is true, it's also just in my opinion that I'll not write off the entire club overnight, as I would only be a hypocrite. I really can't deal with so much negativity all in one go. I do respect everyones opinion, as long as it's not abusive. I'll still read on, as I'm fascinated by it all even though I disagree. I'm just thinking about the next match and that's it.
MAN ON!
Dublin I am sure that I saw a post from a certain Pele10 who may have mentioned this before !
totuae
Fair enough Jonathan I see logic in what you'd saying and agree and disagree in parts, what grinds my gears is Liverpool held on to Suarez because they stood strong. No they didn't! They held on because no one else wanted him because he was behaving like a bell end!
spurticus87
I believe that The scum offered 40 mill and 1 pound to try and trigger his release clause
totuae
spurticus87 -- You are completely right regarding Suarez. if the roles were reversed, and Madrid had a final bid of £40 million and 1 pound for Bale, while Arse had thrown £86 million at Liverpool for Suarez, those same people would be saying WE stood strong! Money talks, Madrid did a lot of that and arsenal didn't.
SpursEagle
SpursEagle that is what most sane fans want.You think as businessmen, they would understand not to interfere with football matters unless THFC are in real danger I.e. relegation. That is why I never understood why he sacked AVB. Did he really think Sherwood with little management experience would do a better job? He must have done. So I hope if the rumours of Broomfield is true and Baldini stays, with assuming a new manager next season then maybe we can look foward to next season. Oh and there is still plenty of football left before the end of this season. COYS!
James1
Bale and Suarez cannot be copared. The situation was not the same at all. RM wanted Bale and were willing to pay. They only wanted Suarez if Bale would not go. He was a backup plan. There was no other genuine interest out there, so there was no interest. Bale was on 100k/week ish. Suarez is on 200k/week ish. Can you see the difference? Bale has always wanted to play for RM. RM came in for him. They let his agent, hias family, his Spurs team all know they were going to buy him and pay him far more than what Suarez is making at Liverpool. Yes, levy could have said no. The money would have depreciated. He'd never play for the shirt (then again, who cares because no one else does). He'd be 80%. He'd let his contract run down then walk for free. No players who believe that there are bigger clubs than Tottenham who may sign them in the future will come to the club. Problem solved. You'll only get players who only want to play for Spurs, like Townsend. Oh wait, you say he'd go to ManU for double the money if it were offered. That can't be so. Money has nothing to do with any of this. Spurs have the inherent right to CL and all of the best players on wages that fit in to our model. We deserve it. Look at all of our recent glory. We are Spurs. Far too good for tin cups. Just let us play in the CL. Forget standing and walking. Just run. When ENIC took over, we were a CL team winning trophies every year. What have these penny-pinchers done to our formerly number 1 in the world club. Oh the inhumanity!!!!!

They suck at making personnel decisions relating to the footballing side of things. That's as far as I will go in slating them. The facts do not support the other vitriol thrown out on here. Far better to ask why our manager and millionaire players could not be bothered to show some fight, desire and respect for the club. Tactically set up, to at best get a 0-0 draw. Man, and I thought AVB was boring with all that control and limiting opposition chances. Every player stank out the joint. When did we string together three passes? The only move I remember us creating anything was the one where Bentaleb went it alone with two in the box. That was it. Yes, Sandro, on a broken play struck the ball sweet and Cech made a world class save. No creation, no imagination, players out of position with players in the lineup who could play those positions. Farcical. Yes, we proved that, like all the minnows do to us, if you stay behind the ball, don't push forward, get lucky with calls and inefficiency from the opposition, that you can, for a fair stretch of play, limit a team that's trying to create. We were never in it to win it and the players all looked the part. Once a goal went in, it was game over. There was no response from our lads on the pitch. They all switched off. They make way too much money to be bothered with that crap. Heck, most all know they don't want to be here next year.

And to go directly at the manager now, what exactly does he believe the board should be saying? I don't recall him running to the press and saying that the board should back AVB and allow him to do things his way. In fact, he clearly had Levy's ear, and, it strikes me by his comments since in the post, that he was probably not AVB's biggest fan. Careful what you wish for. Same applies to all those who want a new owner. Myself, I just want an owner that will allow football people to make football decisions and allow the plan to run its course. You simply cannot hire Ramos, spend ridiculous sums of money on new players and then sack the coach because it does not work from the off. Same can be said for AVB. We still have not been able to field our best XI players. We don't really know what we have beyond the obvious, too many MF'ers, not enough strikers for 4-4-2 and too many injuries to bed new foreign players in at a gradual pace. Another fine mess you have gotten us in to Ollie. Focus on the business. Let Baldini run the football operations or get Klinsmann in here to do so. Better still, hire Mancini as soon as Galatasaray are out of the CL. Perhaps there is still a window to make something of this before it all goes sideways this summer. COYS
peterballb
Good article, I tried to make my feelings clear before Harry got the chop that the next manager was absolutely vital for the short term future of Spurs. Unfortunately, Levy once again, ballsed it right up. I'm looking at our club now and despite being in 5th see a mess, we've lost star players year on year, we're relying on Sherwood, to get us top 4 with no management experience, our best players putting themselves in the shop window seemingly unopposed by any of the senior staff at Spurs, this coming after buying 100 million quids worth of talent. While Levy does balance the books exceptionally well, we may need someone with a bit more ambition to take us forward.
coys1717
James1 -- Completely agree, mate.

Just something regarding what you said on another thread that I meant to comment on. That story about your dad! While I have the greatest sympathy for him and what he went through, I spat coffee at my computer screen the way you described his fall in the bar! Too funny man ... and my condolences to the man, of course!!
SpursEagle
Peter, you say that your only criticsm of ENIC is their decisions regarding football matters. Well it is actually a football club they are supposed to be running.
matt hoten
As Slurms says - better to have owners that actually HAS progressed the club in terms of finance, league position, expectation, transfer expenditure, transfer revenue gained. The author mentions not delivering "success on the football pitch"... If I told you 6 years ago that ENIC would have delivered CL football, and a subsequent 4th place, and even after that got a record total of points, you would be thinking this as "success on the football" to a side that commonly finished in bottom half pre-ENIC. There are far worse owners....ones who get done for money laundering, change shirt colours, change club name, cause clubs to get relegated or nearly go out of business. Maintaining a CL is not easy when there are 5 teams at least with higher revenue than you, who want the CL just as much as we do. We ARE doing it the right way. We are in the same situation that Villa, Leeds, Newcastle were a while back. CL football within grasp. They over stretch themselves and pay for it for years afterwards. The best way is to do what we do: stay in contention. Stay getting 4th every other year. Sooner or later, the right blend will click into place. We will get the right manager, and we will kick on - especially once the stadium comes in. Patience. Yes, there were mistakes. Every owner makes mistakes. As long as we stay finishing above teams with higher revenue, then we are doing as much as we can - Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U... It will become harder and harder to keep doing that. To gamble it all is silly. You COULD argue that we did gamble away the 100m Bale windfall, and how many of those players have significantly progressed us? Splashing money isn't everything. And as we found out, you do not feel the benefit immediately. Next season, our "new" signings will eventually click. As for paying CL-level salaries, firstly you need the revenue to do that - either from stadium, CL money EVERY year, or the financial benefits of being a highly marketable club. You can't just conjure up money out of thin air and maintain that. The author moans about not maintaining a CL place, and his solution is non-maintainable. Fail to make CL 2-3 times in a row, and we are toast - as many teams have gone before. I understand the impatience and frustration, but this season we have merely been undone by Liverpool clicking. Aside from that, we are on course to match last season's points total - as long as we pick ourselves up from the recent loss.
TonyRich
Hahahaha SpursEagle that was funny mate. I think everyone laughed in the pub until they realised how bad it was, but my Dad still laughs about it now. Btw sorry about your coffee stained screen ;) COYS!
James1
Spurious Life, where do you get the 40-50M GBP numbers for just being in the CL? I have seen nothing to suggest that. Last season the group stage teams were guaranteed 8.6M Euros with a team being able to make 37.4 M Euros if they won everything. There are further bonuses for group stage wins and draws Then there is the TV pool share to add to it. Now, we don't get the allocation any of the other top EPL teams do (because we are not the same TV draw), so our monies are less. Yes, if we took just the raw numbers from "cash", which is where all the CL and other non-fixed incomes go, we increased from 17M to 64M. A huge number. Salary commitments also went from 67M to 91M, and there were a lot of other costs. Huge net spend in the markets made 2009-2010 numbers look worse. On the turnover, if you want to ignore all of the "why's" behind the numbers, we went from 119M in 2009-2010, to 163M in 2010-2011 (where we made it to the quarters), back down to 144 in 2011-2012. So, if one chooses to ignore the reasons for the numbers, it would equally be fair to say that not being in the CL only cost us 19M. All of the factors must be included. Salaries in 2009-2010 were 67M. They went up in the CL year to 91M and decreased to 90M the year after. That was all before we incresed the wages of Bale, Walker, Defoe, Dawson and brought in Lloris, Dempsey, Adebayor, Dembele all on decent wages. I expect (numbers won't be out until April or May) that the salary figures for 2012-2013 will have greatly eclipsed the 100M. That is the cost of a large squad and players being in Europe every year. So yes, you make more if you are in CL and you are required to spend more if you are in CL. I reckon the difference is 20-30M (which is not insignificant) and eventually those numbers get eaten up by salaries because every player expects their piece of the pie. COYS
peterballb
the article lost me at " it was not a great stretch to establish our club as genuine title contenders". Do you honestly believe that??? I dont know one spurs fan who thinks that. We burst through our glass ceiling but surely we all knew it was only for a year didnt we?? Surely you can see that our revenue streams just cant compete long term with the teams above us until we can get a new stadium?? Surely you can see that right?? Spurs great problem is our lunatic fanbase who fail to see reality for what it is and heap mountains of ridiculous expectations on a group that simply are not good enough. you can blame Levy, you can blame Sherwood all you like, the buck stops with the players. Look at Vertonghen, he couldnt give a monkeys at the minute, appalling from him and appaling again from our fans.
jimmy-yid
For me ENIC have stabalized us financially and have taken us as far as they really want to go. Where we all want to be comes at a cost and the risk involved is simply too great for ENIC to take.

On the flip side, would we all be happy if a billionaire businessman took over and changed our colours to red and wanted to call us Tottenham Dragons?
Lets be honest, the grass is not always greener, I personally think Levy should be more accountable for his actions, he is constantly interferring with football matters where his knowledge is limited, his transfer policy is the 2nd biggest joke when the window opens (behind Harry hanging out his car window), everyone knows Levy likes to wait until the 11th hour yet we should be installing players at the start of the window to give them time to settle, meet their new team mates and understand the tactics of the team. Then we can hit the ground running in mid August instead of waiting until October until we see the new signings.

The last point is the lack of openness between hierarchy and fans, does any one fan know what our relationship with Real Madrid is, what's in it for Spurs?

For me ENIC need to move on but who is the right investor to take us forward?
yiddyboy
jimmy-yid -- completely agree with everything you say, especially regarding the unrealistic expectations of the fans.

Concerning Jan? Jury has to be out on whether he gives a toss or not. It could be he's just going through a bad patch. However, you could also be spot on. I'll give that a bit more time, though
SpursEagle
Good to see you back Peter, I always wonder where you are when we (as in Spurs) go on a winning run, but all the same good to see you find time for VS after we lose.....
Ossie
matt hoten, it is actually a business. This is not rec football. It is a business worth almost half a Billion that will be worth close to a Billion once the stadium is in place. Football is the product and, last I checked, people kept buying in as do sponsors, players, managers etc. Arsenal is a business, run by the owneres of WalMart as a going concern to not run losses and eventually, once the stadium is paid off, to have profits, all the while appreciating the asset. They are all businesses. Some models can stand the test of time. Some are poorly run. Others have benefactors who will eventually leave. Those businesses will not survive as they are now. COYS
peterballb
U21s won 5-2 in the end, last goal from Shaq Coulthirst. Well done lads at least you're back on track. Hope the first the first team squad will be next time out. Whomever is fit!!
longtimespur
Ossie, I said I would gve TS ten games. I did. Ihave posted here and there. I am in North America, so my schedule does no alays pmit me to post when you are available. I coach two hockey teams and am participating in winter baseball training. Time is at a minimum. I do, however, take the time to read regardless (as I did during the year I said I would give Harry). Yes, I have been fairweather or foulweather all the way back to the early70's. My apologies for being so. None of that however makes my points any more or less correct. That's what facts are for. And my subjective opinions, I am entitled to as well. As are all. COYS
peterballb
peter- do you really think Klinsmann would be interested in giving up the lifestyle he enjoys in USA to come to Spurs.No chance.
topspur53
Saying it for a while now a change at the top is needed to become a football club and team again. Balance sheets look great as for the team sheet who knows anymore
bazdog
ppl like TS should be staying i appauld hes honesty and the truth about us, finally a manager has balls tocome out and say it as it is, now of LVG done it well respect guy he would be praisedbut a itsa rookie who hasnt got a club its deemed hes dim, its allabout preception
123spurs
Hi Peterballb - good to hear from you. The £40m-£50m number wasn't particularly scientific but don't just think of the 'prize money' paid by UEFA. There are increased TV revenues (even if we aren't the draw of the other top PL teams), extra gate receipts (ticket prices are generally higher for CL games as demand is higher) and advertising and sponsorship returns are also higher. Granted we'd have to get quite deep into the competition to maximise the returns but we managed the last 8 the only time we were in it. Obviously different times and a very different squad then mind you!
SpuriousLife
to much player power theses days, pretty sick of it now to be honest
123spurs
topspur53, yes, I have read quite a bit about that too and Klinsmann did sign a new contract wih the USMNT a few months back. That said, I don't know that he has been offered the job he wants He does not want to coach Tottenham, he wants to run the football operations. Will that be on offer? I doubt it. Levy does not seem t want to take his nose out of things. Klinmann's family is also very happy in California, by all reports. It'd be a tough one, but there is always a number and some conditions that could be met to change that. COYS
peterballb
I appreciate what ENIC have done to push the club to where it has, and I have some severe reservations regarding a change of ownership, but the facts are that the current model that ENIC are operating for the business will not see us usurp our closest competitors season on season for the Cl places. There are many issues on the footballing side which I don't agree with, particularly the transfer strategy, which I don't understand at all, and the constant changes of management/footballing philosophy that has plagued us for the last few seasons.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
123spurs he should be dealing with that problem not preaching to the choir about a problem we can all see. Captain Hindsight!
Slurms McKenzie
The nubers I quote include all that. The only variable is the "goodwill" and new fans that comes from repeated involvement in the CL. That's where it all falls down because there are 5 teams with far better resources, so we are always at a dsadvantage. We have no right to expect CL. We should expect to be top 6. We should expect to be giving it our all in all of the competitions. Winning begets winning. Wigan have drawn big-time on their experience from last season. Can we win the league? Absolutely. We just have to do things better than everyone else. That means from the top, to the bottom. Can we expect to be in for the title every year? That might be a bridge too far, but we should always be building to competing for that. We should also now always be in the mix for top-4. Anything less is underachieving, and anything that sees us out of Europe should be unacceptable. Yes, it's more games, but the 5th place team is no worse off than the 4th place team in terms of games to play until out of the group stages. The only difference is one more round. CL is more money, more prestige, and should certainly be a goal every year. I just think it can't be an expectation given the financial realities that surround our club. COYS
peterballb
Does Abramovich communicate with the fans? Does he care what they think? Heck, he doesn't care what his managers think. What about the Glazers? Kroenke? Tam? Fernandez? The Sheikh? In modern sports, we, the supprters, float the clubs. We live and die with all that goes on and we do not have a voice. They only care when it makes good business sense tio appease the fans. COYS
peterballb
Peter if Levy could make money off "badwill" we'd be the richest club in the world...
Slurms McKenzie
peter, you are of course correct re Abramovich, but is that also helped by the fact that they are usually successful and winning or at least competing for all the top honours. I do recall however when Ancelotti was struggling the season after winning the double, their fans were starting to get annoyed at the way the club was going. of course Chelsea are also usually able to spend 50m to placate the fans any window that RA feels there might need to be a bit of good will spreading
oxfordspur
Of course the success of Chelsea has something to do with it as does money. Chelsea is not the only team with a foot in the Cl most seasons. City, PSG and Monaco have added to AC Milan, Inter, Barca, RM, Porto, Bayern, ManU, Arsenal can all make similar claims. Some pay players more than others. How many teams can afford Ibrahimovich? Not many, but they are all on the list. The teams with Monopoly owners, until (and if ever) FFPR show their teeth, will continue to be able to buy their way out of things. I'd suggest Abramovich was acting as a fan in most of his sackings and hirings. Not as a business man, because he doesn't care. Chelsea is the business he does at the end of the day that he enjoys. It's that charity or sport that many of us, on here, give our time to at the end of the work day, so that we can give back with something in which we can emotionally invest. If I had Billions, I could go play football manager with Spurs. I don't. I help young kids become better hockey players, baseball players, soccer/football, rugby, squash, but most emportantly, to develop a love of whatever game it is that does it for them and to make them better people. Spurs is a business. Chelsea a plaything. One day Chelsea will again be a business. Where will the chips fall? COYS
peterballb
Super post peter! That's the fact of it. We are the emotion, the consumer! The clubs are playthings, businesses or ego boosters for their owners! What happens when abramovic gets bored? Formula 1? What happens when the venkys realise it's not for them? Pork? You keep coaching those kids, and supporting spurs! It's luck of the draw who you get with owners!
Dublin Hotspur
Maybe what we need to acknowledge is that everything has its useful life-span. ENIC have been very good for our club. They stabilised us financially at a time when we were in very serious trouble and since then they have implemented a prudent fiscal model that enables us to compete in the top half of the PL. However, we have the potential to compete at the very top. This doesn't seem to be high on ENIC's list of priorities so many Spurs fans experience an increasing sense of frustration and perceived 'under-achievement' when we're so close but apparently insist on remaining the bridesmaid rather than the bride. Perhaps the choice is that we stick with ENIC and know we'll be financially sound for the foreseeable future but we're unlikely to win anything soon and the new stadium could be another 10 to 15 years away. Or we could gamble and try to get new owners who will throw money at building the stadium now and strengthening the playing staff so we can compete for titles and trophies. There are risks to both choices. Safe but barren years in terms of silverware or selling to a potential megalomaniac that changes our name to Tottenham Hot Chickens as we compete at the top playing in a new stadium until the new owner finds a new toy or borrows against our assets. It's a tough one and a combination of ENIC with deeper pockets and a greater willingness to spend on the playing staff would be ideal but not easy to find.
SpuriousLife
Spurious! Same thoughts, you did it more eloquently!! Fair play and well said!
Dublin Hotspur
Evening Dublin. After reading my own post I'm not sure what choice I'd go for! ENIC or Sheik Mansour = no contest. ENIC or Vincent Tan = no contest. I'm getting splinters in my ar$e!
SpuriousLife
SpuriousLife, there is no longer a choice (assuming FFPR are more than toilet paper). City spent almost a Billion GBP to get to the team that they have. Their salaries are off the chart. Their average is higher than our best. It is not an economically viable model. Sure they hide things. Commercial Activities outstrip United. Really? BS. Wages, 87% of turnover. QPR for the same year had 91% of turnover and every pundit was saying how grossly irresponsible that was. United is 51%. That's real money. Ours was 63%, at what most consider the upper end of a viable percentage. Arsenal are 58%. These are all 2011/2012 numbers. City's loss was over 100M having been reduced from almost 200M the year prior. Arsenal made 37M. We lost 7M. United 5M. It's all a joke. But, one day, the toy will lose its lustre and the club will be sold. Even if the current owners take away all the debt, the salaries, expectations etc are not viable in the revenue streams that will be available. The only ones who suffer are the fans. QPR will make the playoff round. If they do not gain promotion, how much deeper will Fernandez go in to his pocket as parachute payments decrease? I just want Levy and the board to appoint a real football person and let them do their job (get players, appoint managers all within their budget). COYS
peterballb
Peter of course football is a business, all I was pointing out is that if you are running a football club you need to know something about football or appoint someone who does and let them get on with it. Our success wont rely on building a stadium unless the football side is right, you wont fill it otherwise.
matt hoten
That is of course true and is what I have been suggesting since Harry was hired. We need someone independant (but for budget constraints which should be reality) who can see the big picture, bring in the scouts, coaches and players to look after the smaller pictures and just make sure that it stays on the rails with a long-term plan abnd expectations. The only goal should be winning the league. Be fighting for that every year and CL will take care of itself. COYS
peterballb
Anybody who actually believes that if an organisation as rich and powerful as ENIC, were genuinely determined, and enthusiastic, about a new stadium build, would allow some tuppenny halfpenny sheet metal business to hold up everything as is alleged, is deluded. Any big outfit could either buy the outfit, bully it either directly or indirectly, or lean on or coerce neighbours, customers, or suppliers, etc. and could if determined bust the business. There are many ways of applying pressure without quite breaking the law. After a determined campaign they might be very glad to move. The truth is it is a convenient excuse, and shows a lack of will, determination, and enthusiasm to build the stadium, and push the club forward, exactly the same as when they sat on their hands and failed to push on after the QF finish in the CL under Redknapp. They are always keen to asset strip with the sale of the likes of Carrick, Berbatov, Modric, Van Der Vaart, Bale, and others, gaining and earning the reputation of a selling club, making a profit in almost every transfer window, even after re-cycling £109M of the Bale, Huddlestone, Caulker, Dempsey money, on what have turned out to be poor purchases, they made a profit in last summer's window. There was no sign of the increased SKY revenue, or any new investment by the owners. In truth they are only owners of THFC because it was seen as a good financial opportunity, an investment at the right price to be ultimately sold on, especially with a state of the art training facility, and either a new stadium, if that is the best business alternative, or with planning permission and all the necessary consents to build it later. Providing we remain in the upper reaches of the PL, so as not to devalue the package, without incurring the additional running costs, and need for further investment, by playing in the CL, they are happy. They are not football people, the fact that they bought THFC had nothing to do with football, it was just business. They have dabbled before in the ownership of football clubs, with a record of achieving nothing from a football point of view, only lucrative deals when selling them on. The organisation is frightened of, and has no desire to achieve ultimate success on the pitch, as chasing it, and maintaining it is expensive, and they want to run the club as cheaply as possible, to maximise their profit when they finally sell. I personally just wish they would hurry up, and go, so that hopefully somebody with more enthusiasm for winning would come in, somebody like Fenway Sports would be nice, their enthusiasm for success at Liverpool is such a marked contrast, to the lethargy of ENIC.
Frank
I'm pro-Levy and pro-ENIC. With a slight tweak of attitude both Redknapp and AVB could well have been more successful. Ramos won a trophy. Levys' appointments are improving. The squad definitely is. Top ingredients have been gained despite our sometimes 'blue and white striped' product. We may have spent £100m but it was ours. We've been a smidgen away so often, from challenging to achieving top4.
jerkinmahjurgen
Frank, I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that there were political procedures to force the owners out. The City can repossess/expropriate land where development requires, and from personal experience, you often don't get what the market would have given you. Plans have not met final approval, so building cannot start anyway. All that said, yes, if we'd been willing to throw another 40-50M at the problem (above market buys for landowners), accept all the costs of metro and security by ourselves (rather than the partnership that was forged), accept the arguments of Haringey and Heritage (that were limiting the potential of the project), accept the smaller ground (56k rather than 60k plus), I suppose it could have all been pushed through a couple of years ago. This is a huge endeavour in a grossly underserviced area of London. Transport must be increased. Security is a real issue. To rejuvenate required all the lands, not just those heritage was permitting to have razed. And I am darned certain that Levy is no different with land owners than he is with transfers. There is a market value. he will not pay beyond what is reasonable. Would be nice to not care about the money, but since I do, I can appreciate that ENIC do too. COYS
peterballb
Proper business debate going on. I'm in, once the kids are down. Catch up soon!
Dublin Hotspur
Regarding ENIC, and Daniel Levy's penchant for hiring and firing of managers, he is legendary and rightly the butt of many jokes and inuendo by football journos. Up until now, he has always picked the wrong option (with one exception amongst 9, when we needed to avoid relegation, he got Redknapp in, and he over achieved, becoming expensive) . This aspect of his decision making aptly sums up Levy's total ignorance, and ineptitude, in all matters football. He is a questionably successful bean counter, but a football numb skull, and should leave all matters football well alone, to people who actually have half a clue as to what they are doing.
Frank
Slightly off topic ... Coops, did you manage to get tickets for the fight?
SpursEagle
Richard Peddie was the Predident and CEO of MLSE (Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment). During his tenure, the Air Canada Centre replaced Maple Leaf Gardens. That is now the home of the NHL Maple Leafs, NBA Raptors, and NLL Toronto Rock. They also own BMO field, the home of the Toronto FC (Defoe's new stomping ground) and the MLSE Toronto FC. The have redeveloped the area around the Air Canada Centre and have built everything up around Maple Leaf Square. Fancy buildings. Lots of money, lots of shops etc. That side is good. Maple Leafs last won a Stanley Cup in 1967. That was also their last Finals appearance. They have missed the playoffs 13 times since 1980 in a league where half of the teams make the playoffs. Their payroll was routinely in the top 2 or 3 of the league. The Raptors have been around since 1995. Thay have been to the playoffs five times (in a league where half the teams make the playoffs) and have only once won one playoff round (takes four rounds to win it all). The Toronto Rock (Professional Lacrosse - players almost all have second jobs) are the only success story having won on a regular basis. TFC, Defoe's new team, have never made the playoffs and have been, IMO, impossible to watch, since coming in to the league in 2007.

So, I would suggest that Richard Peddie, while not being wholly responsible, presided over 3 grossly underachieving major sports franchises in the largest City in Canada, and one of the largest in North America, all the while growing the business brilliantly for MLSE. All of those leagues have caps and limits on spending, so it is all profit.

As to the validity of the story? Who knows. Peddie reportedly offered 250M GBP in 2008 for the team, which was rejected, so whyhe would think that MLSE has trebled in value but THFC has remained static, is beyond me. As for 400M, I presume that includes Peddie taking on all of the THFC debt which puts the price closer to 500M, which is about right, given where the club could be in 5-10 years. COYS
peterballb
Peter, fair play! and I assume Peddie also enjoys huge rental returns for premises, shops, service charges and all that comes with being a commercial landlord! as per a shopping mall landlord, but with the addition of major sports franchises buying in also! sound a bit like the ENIC model to me, or at least their possible aspiration! (Sainsbury's, Haringey Council, Vendors, retailers etc paying rents!!)
Dublin Hotspur
Jonathon, thanks for presenting the article and I ALWAYS appreciate someone offering something for us to debate, whether I agree with it or not.

Lie many have said, no CEO in the world would've survived the axe had he made so many judgmental errors on recruitment. One has to remember, ENIC, Joe and Levy are UNTOUCHABLES!. ENIC will sell when the time and the offer suits them. LEVY will remain CEO for as long as HE wishes as he is part OWNER of club. Joe has the final say, being the majority stake holder. As long as his INVESTMENT continues to make him a handsome return, he probably doesn't feel the need to change anything.

IMO, therefore, we are stuck with ENIC for the foreseeable future. What we should be seeking isa) better dialogue with the fans, a revised strategy to address the footballing issues. We also need to shake off the 'selling club' image. Players and other teams recognise this and benefit from it whereas it is US the FANS that continue to suffer. Unfortunately, even with a new manager next season, I see another 'project' and another rebuilding phase. Need to wipe the slate clean and sort out the mess for once and for all. COYS!
Critical_Spur
No-one around so? I'll share with myself, after a cheltenham preview presentation this afternoon, I have two tips for tomorrow! Our Conor in the Champion Hurdle and Dodging Bullets in the Arkle!

I also put in the slow dropping toilet seats around the house today! 4 of them! because the misses finally got sick of me leaving the seat up! They are great fun! Its like a race to see if you can finish the job before the seat hits the porcelain! brilliant invention! probably invented by Enic!
Dublin Hotspur
Dublin , thanx for tips , on overnight here in NZ so was going to mysky and watch next day , will have a nibble now , much more interesting , cheers .
sandroman
Keep an eye on proceedings Sandro, I have a line in, as does Spu 4 life, so I'm gonna keep putting anything I hear through! Briar Hill in the Albert Bartlett is another, and Quevega tomorrow obviously! There is very good word for Veuteur in the first tomorrow from Mullins stable! thats a lottery race though! good luck!!
Dublin Hotspur
Question for peeps , when and if ENIC ever do build stadium and clear the debt do you believe that increased revenues will go into increased wages so we can bring in better players ? I myself have grave doubts that will happen , I think if not sold extra monies will go into increasing profit margin .
sandroman
Have to say Dublin it is one of the great racing carnivals in world , fantastic spectacle , watch every year as well as Royal Ascot . Racing in NZ is dire straights , we've given ourselves another 4 years to see some serious improvement here or we'll start racing horses on Aussie .
sandroman
Sandro, I think the wage increase opportunity will happen! It won't matter to ENIC then, as they will have the club out for Tender IMO by that stage! if they surprise us and hold onto the club, there would be no excuse for not putting the near double gate revenue into transfer and wage bills! the land, ground and rented retail units will be their assets, the club cash-flow would / should be for the club! It could only increase the re-sale value for the club for them if thats what they want…. but I'm often proven wrong on here and at home, so don't bank on it!
By the way, I think the only club debt is owed to themselves, but Shedboy or Cider or Coops or Kong could probably clarify better!
Dublin Hotspur
Sandro, SA racing is pretty good, and most head for the Dubai Festival! Aus has the Melbourne cup, but I don't see much more as its so early in the morning! I would have thought NZ would be perfect for racing, having a similar climate and love of sport as Ireland! Cheltenham is the hub of the NH year though! I have a book that I note horses from October to now! I said i would put a thread up for whispers and fancies from any VS members, but don't want to start a war if bets are taken and lose! so i'll just post up any fancies or tips from stables here that I get the night before! hope some come in! but don't blame the messenger!!
Dublin Hotspur
My selections for tomorrows racing at Cheltenham:
1.30 Vauteur
2.05 Dodging Bullets (Tip)
2.40 Alfie Sherrin
3.20 Our Conor (Tip)
4.00 Quevega(win) / Glens Melody (E/W Bet)
4.40 Shutthefrontdoor (tip)
5.15 Baby Mix

just a few tips (highlighted) or my fancies… good luck and enjoy the festival!
Dublin Hotspur
Good evening folks - looks like a hectic day on here as well as work!

WOW! Guess ole Dan won't be getting a Happy Hannukah card from some on here….

I don't like ENIC really but don't mind them when I reflect back at Sugar's reign and as much as I try to avoid, and Scholar's I have to remind myself.

Quite a few things here needs challenging: Didn't Spurs hold fast when Modric wanted to go to Chelski and went to RM the following year for less than offered ?
Unfortunately GB had effectively gone on strike and for £86m? Com'on folks….
VdV went because of his wife; Berbatov - remember how he went ? It's alright to turn on people but even better if done with facts!
Saurez would've stayed if someone bid £80m… come on, NO one came in for me other than the scum with a misery offer!

One of the biggest mistake of DL was to get rid AVB when he did - it compounded the problem - we will never know how it could've ended up but we now know how we are in March - 5th place and just lost to a team who we haven't beaten for 24 years!
We had ONLY four players out of position - hardly ENIC to blame - supposedly they had given the manager licence to name names to get in January, the manager said there was NO need!
Hardly a money grabbing lot's behaviour.

Yes I agree Levy ought stop meddling with the revolving door and wait for more than 18 months to follow a plan through.

4 years ago I remember we were put on a par with Villa and Everton - look where they've been since!

Yes I want us to compete in CL and yes I want them to buy in the class players but I was one of those who were overjoyed at the signings, wish I had the benefit of hindsight like some on here. at least we bought !

I am frustrated as the next guy about the weekend but we are not in danger of relegation like we were not so long ago!

As mentioned before - who would the ENIC out brigade want in ? Who are they in trust of so much that everything will be hunky dory…. come on folks smell the coffee they aren't anyone out there is there ?
No I don't want the likes of Tan anywhere near WHL.

The stadium? I'm on the hopeful side - hoping the eggs don't land on my face.
But to claim that WHL is not nearly sold out every game is JUST so wrong!!!

Guess I'm one of the few who is still expecting some positive result out of this season…but supporting Spurs is fantastic and in moments like this - 5th and round of 16 of EL - is even more fantastic!
So we lost on saturday and it hurts so much but it's nothing that Carrick, Bale, Modric, Berbatov, VdV Caulker or Dempsey could avoid in their time with us!

As said before we ought be careful what we wish for !

COYS!!!!

Highgatespur
Dublin , NZ is exactly as you say , a great nursery for horses , but NZ racing has and is being administered down the drain . All our best horses are sold at yearling sales rest the next stage of ready to run sales then out of trials , any thing missed there is gone as soon as it shows ability at races . Our absolute best 2 or 3 can match aussies and race there almost exclusively , the rest that win our G1 races are only G3/listed in aussie . Most young horses go to asia ,and have to put my hand and say that's where my last 3 have gone , couldn't win the money here that I've got selling . Best 3 3yo colts here at mo are aussie bred , damning indictment on our racing . We get British racing most nights so anything you hear will be gladly received with no comebacks . cheers
sandroman
Evening Highgate,
It's really a case of "be careful what you wish for" regarding the article….. but I'm wishing all my horse selections come in tomorrow!!
ONE game played out of 6 in March! ONE lost to the probable EPL title winners, big deal. scoreline was embarrassing but 1-0 would have been the same! we never went out to win that one!

I would love to put our best team out for Thursday and Sunday, but injuries / bans are worrying me! we need to pick up the pieces and carry on with the optimism we held for this month! One game played, one lost, yes: but 5 more big games to play!!

On another note, what the hell happened to that Plane? apparently on Sky News, the Civil Aviation officer for Malaysia said stolen passports were an issue and one, and I quote…"non asian looking man…. Do you know a footballer by the name of (Mario) Balotelli?(This is) what he looks like. I don't want to dwell on this but the men are not asian looking"
either blatant racist "they all look the same" or something is being hidden, well hidden from the public!!! a plane doesn't just disappear after 3 days! and you can't blame someone because they look like MB!!
Dublin Hotspur
Good post Highgate, especially that point at the end listing out the players from our past who also failed to get the win there
SpursEagle
Highgate , enjoy your posts , a lot of posters say the same regarding looking back at previous owners and be grateful , but I feel that because of that we are too scared to look forward a see what might be if the courage can be found to take that next step . Would hate to be in the same position in ten years , but unfortunately I can see that happening , I've resigned myself to the fact that as long as ENIC are in control I will see no success on the pitch , wish I had shares in them tho as I think they are making plenty off it . I am a cynic !
sandroman
Hey sandroman -- Good point about looking forward. To be honest, I am guilty of looking back and then making the comparison. You just may well have turned me into a cynic! lol
SpursEagle
As for players such as Berba , Modric , Bale , three of the best to ever play for Spurs ,maybe genuine other reasons for wanting out but perhaps if when all were at the top of their game , if they had seen genuine ambition on the part of our owners to get players of real quality around them to try and win something on the pitch , perhaps , just perhaps they might have stayed and been part of a dream . Just a thought .
sandroman
Spurs , your the first person I've influenced in two decades , HA .Influenced my wife to marry me but she reckons she quickly seen thru the illusion , my retort , your still bluudy here annoying 23 years later .
sandroman
lmoa sandroman ... Hope the missus isn't looking over your shoulder
SpursEagle
SandroMan, you appear to be a horse owner! are you a SELLING owner??? SANDROMAN OUT!!!! LOL
Dublin Hotspur
Dublin, Hiya mate.
Gonna follow the punt - know next to nothing about horses!

I make 1-1 in March - Cardiff was played on March 2nd ?

Where does that man get the nerve ?!! Hear him about Levy? Remember what he said about AVB?
What a scrote - please just stop talking to the press!

Hope there will be better show on Thursday hope there are no 2nd strings theme to it!

COYS!!!!

Been very busy today and have missed the news.
Can't believe you that was said ?!!! Oh no!!!
It's bloody conspiracy.... like an episode of the"Twilight Zone!!"

Oh anything can happen these days, Dublin - like Wigan beating 'the best team in the world' on Sunday!!

COYS

Highgatespur
SpurEagle - thanks mate - "And we will sing, we will sing We will sing our own song." Hoping Thursday and Sunday will give us the reason!!! LOL COYS!!!!
Highgatespur
Dublin , yea mate I have been ,but then again might be a different story if I had a couple of billion sitting around , maybe . Freeholded the property on sales so with no mortgage hanging us not as much need to sell , but you have to be realistic ,if I get half a mill for the next one or two i'll ring Levy up asking to invest ,i'd soon shake things up . By the way the wife tried that 'Sandroman Out' once , still here , immovable , no sell on value .
sandroman
Sandroman, thanks for the compliment... you've got me slightly wrong... I don't hark back to those bad old days except for the worst team... teams that made you laugh... exercise.

I only referred to them as a reference point to how far we have come over the 'dreaded' Levy/ENIC years.
I am not scared of going forward but I do NOT want a scenario at WHL being played out as at Blackburn, Cardiff, Hull, Birmingham, Leeds and so on...

All I would like, is for Levy to leave things that he isn't good at alone!

We haven't stayed still at all in my mind - they sanctioned the purchases of the summer - were they to know they'd all fail to bring the successes?.. could you imagine the uproar if the GB money wasn't spent?!
It'd be the same scene on here except the other way round!
What's the impact of AVB going ? I'm in NO way a supporter of AVB but why the change, demanded by many, to what impact?..

Many cry out for old 'Arry - just look back at the spring records of 2011 and 2012!

I'm sorry you feel that we'll be stuck here for the next 10 years... We have won only two league cups in the past 23 years... More to the story than meets the eye.

One thing I totally agree with you on is why on earth didn't the club build on the strengths of the brilliant players we had in the late 2009 -12!!!

That was a travesty! But that doesn't mean that ENIC have been a total failure!

Questions need to be asked of Levy's role rather than the whole administration!

Or should we, the Spurs fans, admit to a tendency of being serial complainers?

Here's to handsome victories on Thursday and Sunday and sandroman I sincerely hope you are wrong!!!

COYS!!!
Highgatespur
Highgate , cheers for the reply , personally don't believe if we were sold we end up in the position of those clubs listed , different level of investment required to purchase us , whoever does will have enough to secure the future , Spurs won't be bought by speculaters , i'm no financial wizard but think when sold we will be close to our ceiling price . I agree re Bale money , but spending the Bale money meant they didn't have to dip into their own pocket , every xfer window is the same sell first , then buy . most of the newbies were bought at a level that if 1/2 kick on there would be healthy profits , even Lamela . As for AVB I agree to some extent , personally believe he had lost the dressing room , also believe he quit as much sacked , Levy always has a backup plan , not this time , got caught with his pants down .Had no choice but to appoint Sherwood till end of season so he had time to suss out a replacement .I would laugh if this type of appointment had been made a my local club . I also don't believe ENIC have been a total failure but just past their used by date .They have had 14 seasons to make a statement of intent on the park , and while they have upgraded the club in all aspects their major focus is on financial success and I have seen nothing to suggest that their focus is going to change , so yes i'm afraid as long as ENIC have control I see nothing in the way of on field success coming our way . Lastly on us being serial complainers , maybe , but I look at this site and it tells me we as individuals have more vested in this club spiritually and with the time and money we spend to support our club that we have a right to question anybody who comes in and has the ability to affect peoples daily lives and their spirituality , especially when their primary focus is making money. Agree re thurs and sunday , and I also hope i'm wrong !! cheers
sandroman
sandroman - thanks for detailed response yourself ... one little point - serial complainers wasn't about this site - I was talking about us in general.. we never seem to be satisfied at any a given moment!

In AC Milan I was next to some fellas who were complaining at our performance and this was after Peter Crouch had scored and were winning 1-0!!!

Take care.
Highgatespur
Highgate , was using this site as example of how much many supporters of SPURS have vested in the club , heart and soul for many . Human nature to complain , we could win the league and moan if we didn't win it the next season . the bit that pishes me off the most , is the total disdain and lack of respect our owners ,owners in general , have for supporters of the club , just don't seem to understand what lengths and cost , financialy , the majority of supporters go to be part of the family .You seem to be a perfect example , travel here there and every where to support the club , but treated as an non entity in respect of your value to the club , financially but more so spiritually . Why should some one such as yourself have any say in how the club is managed . Give us your money , watch the game , now phuck off !! cheers
sandroman
Sandroman, I have to disagree with some of that. First off, I have seen nothing to suggest that AVB lost the dressing room. There was nowhere near the discontent between players that there is now. This squad is entirely made up of individuals now. There is no one playing for anyone but themselves. AVB had lost the board. They wanted to tell him how to play and who to play and he said I am the coach I will dress and play who I choose. He did not quit, but, I will say that he knew during the Liverpool that he was finished at Spurs. All of his fight was gone. He apparently met with the board that night, was not fired but was told who and how to play. He thought about it, said no way Danny, and they were left with the unthinkable - can't fire him (would cost way too much) and he won't walk (would cost AVB too much). They decided to part ways. I agree with your assessment, there was no plan. There remains no plan. This will cost us immensely in players leaving, and, if my fears pan out, we will drop down the table and well out of Europe. We will have a bloated squad of discontent and will be starting all over again. I also believe that ENIC can take us forward, BUT, and it is a big BUT, they must appoint a football person to oversee all football operations. Give him a budget and let him build. If ENIC cannot find a person they trust, they will continue to meddle. It doesn't matter who is in charge. It will always wind up in ridiculous, incongruous change. We need to stop taking steps back. COYS
peterballb
Peter , hi ,semantics whether AVB was kicked , walked , or mutually agreed to go , none of us truly know and highly unlikely Levy will tell us ,what I do know is Levy has all but once had plan B ready , was caught short this time , perhaps it went down as you suggest but I don't believe Levy expected AVB not to buckle down when told to , and for the record I agreed with his handling of Ade , the man is nothing but a self server , pleased he's performing now , imagine if he'd done that at beginning of last 2 seasons .Personally think the players had stopped playing for AVB , they could see the AVB's playing style wasn't working and he was becoming dogmatic in his attempt to make it work ,as to whether things are worse now , yes agree it appears that way , is it Sherwood or can they see how this season has imploded and maybe waking up to the fact that whilst Levy is there things aren't really going to change .Good luck on getting Levy to stop meddling , 14 seasons and hasn't learn't the lesson, and we'll have to disagree on ENIC being able to take us forward , certainly not on the footballings side of things , we were 5th twice with Jol , that was 6 or 7 seasons ago ,were still fighting for the scraps off the big boys table .I'll get slated for this but I believe if ENIC wanted success on the park they would have done it , the moneys there , but the foremost interest is making money not spending it .You buy a sports team to win things ,especially if you have billions , that's where the prestige is , Chelski , Man City , they don't care about the money it's the prestige of winning .The arabs with Godolphin racing , their Australasian arm Darley , do they make money , possibly , but winning big races and the prestige is what it is all about for them, the richest horse race in the world the Dubai world cup , no gambling ,they spend a fortune just trying to win their own race . I race horses , not because i'm rich but because I love it , we spend what we can afford . I believe if ENIC truly wanted success on the park they would have shown their hand by now , there is no way they will do so now , now is all about protecting the profit the have gained in Spurs and increasing if possible and then out , do you think they will care who they sell to ,will they care about the future once they are gone .They will be too busy counting their pennies . Simplistic maybe , cynical for sure .But i'll still get up early Monday morning to watch and support . Cheers
sandroman
The CLASH.....Should I stay or should I go.
Cider spurs
Cider- Shakespeare Sister - Stay with me...
Slurms McKenzie
Cider- Shakespeare Sister - Stay with me...
Slurms McKenzie
Slurms,,,The Cranberries....No need to Argue!.
Cider spurs
Or evenGloria Gaynor/Bronski Beat's Never can say goodbye....
Highgatespur
How ironic that the most anti-ENIC poster on this forum doesn't post on a thread relating to ENIC to go, hope you are ok Pele?
yiddyboy
More and more people are thinking like you Jonathan, one more managerial appoint and one more silent season of stadium start date is all they have left. Coming 5th every season just pi$$es me off, it's a proper wooden spoon place and we deserve better.

Totally agree with the missed opportunity a few years back. All we had to do was pay an extra 2m for Scott Parker that January and we would have qualified again, we didnt invest and f-(ked up big time, lost out by a couple of points which Parker would have helped save.

Last chance for levy and co.
T.H.F.Chris
Sandroman, that last post is absolutely superb and I totally agree with every word, your analogies of the other rich owners of sports organisations, and their determination to succeed, win, and collect trophies, and the kudos and prestige gained from victory, which is their motivation and reason for being there. If ENIC just want to make money why don't they just buy a pay day loan company and leave football to those who want to win.
Frank
ENIC/Levy OUT!


Let's bring back Scholar


Or, better yet that Piers Morgan wannabe, Sugar



Grass greener and all that
miamispur
Levy has to be in the gun for his decisions no doubt about it Levy out.
Uskok
ERIC OUT! LEVI'S OUT! The Pope for President! God Save The Queen... the bean counters regime.... He made us all morons...
MAN ON!
 

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