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Spurs need to learn from Liverpool

Spurs need to learn from Liverpool

Summer 2012: Tottenham and Liverpool both appoint new managers.

At the time Spurs had only missed out on Champions League football due to Chelsea winning the competition, and Liverpool finished all the way down in 8th level on points with Fulham. Fast forward a year and a half, AVB is no longer Spurs manager and they have little chance of finishing in the top 4, and Liverpool are now challenging for the title. Where did things go wrong?

A lot of people will put it down to Rodgers being a better manager, but that's something I strongly disagree with. Both managers are two of the best young managers in the game, and Liverpool have backed Rodgers and allowed him to do everything his away and now Liverpool are reaping the rewards.

AVB did a fantastic job at Porto winning the treble and I firmly believe with the full backing of Daniel Levy that success could have been replicated. Another argument could be that Liverpool were able to keep Suarez at the club and Bale was sold to Madrid. A lot of players were brought in with the money from the Bale sale, but the majority of them were signed by Baldini and were players Boas didn't want. Surely for a club to succeed the manager needs to gage full control of transfers.

Levy brought Baldini in and a lot of mistakes were made in the transfer market. Therefore Levy and Baldini need to be held accountable. When Levy appointed AVB he was very impressed with his vision for the future, yet he didn't give him a proper chance to achieve it.

Last season a lot of Liverpool fans were questioning Rodgers but the board stuck by him and gave him time to get things right. Moving forward Baldini needs to go. I would either keep Sherwood or try and get Klopp or Simeone as manager. They should be given time and full control of players transfers.

Written by Matt Birkinshaw



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:Matt Birkinshaw
Date:Thursday March 20 2014
Time: 9:20AM

Comments

0
Damien Comollo on Tallksport this morning. "Having no European football gives Liverpool a MASSIVE MASSIVE advantage. " yes that was two massives...........................learn from that!
rogerthelodger
20/03/2014 09:27:00
0
I'll say it again. Although Liverpool have been fantastic this season, they've still not won anything yet. (We'll see). Spurs on the other hand do have a big mess to sort out.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 09:27:00
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ManOn neither have we won anything have we have been crap and likely to finish 6th or 7th. We do indeed have a lot to learn.
rogerthelodger
20/03/2014 09:29:00
0
rogerthelodger. Yes they do have an advantage but that won't be the case next year...... We have been finishing above them for a good few years. We don't know if they can keep it up. I'll get back to this in a season or so.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 09:50:00
0
man on-our relatively good finishes 4th,5th,4th,5th have co-incidided with liverpools fall out of the champions league.them getting their act together is bad news for us
ghulamville
20/03/2014 09:54:00
0
When I say Liverpool have been fantastic, that's been as an attacking force. Defensively, they've not been so good. They've got a lot to learn themselves. We really don't know how all they will do next year. Personally, I don't care. All I'm concerned about is Spurs upping their game. COYS!
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 10:11:00
0
*how well*
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 10:12:00
0
ManOn, they will suffer when Suarez goes and Gerrard runs out of steam, but they have momentum, with a plan, which has clearly worked this year. They have a very good young manager who likes flexible, mobile quick footed players. At this moment in time they have a number of advantages over us which is showing in the prem. As Ghulam says, them coming good is bad for us.
rogerthelodger
20/03/2014 10:14:00
0
Couldn't disagree with this article any more. AVB proved he wasnt a top manager, by having failed at both us and Chelsea, of which at both he had resources which most clubs could dream of, I dont buy into the fact that AVB had no say in the transfers. I do agree with Levy c**king things up AGAIN. AVB lives in a dream land where on paper everything is full proof, in reality life doesnt work like that. Selling Bale, yes, looks like a crap idea now as nearly all the new signings have failed. But I dont buy for a second that these players of proven ability have turned rubbish over night. Bad decisions by Levy, Bad management by AVB, Bad decision by Levy not having a replacement, Bad decision leaving a coach with no management experience in charge with players obviously chosen to play in a flawed system which failed, as a result confidence of the fans is shot, confidence in the players is shot, our season over by the Norwich game.
coys1717
20/03/2014 10:15:00
0
Learn what? 3 of the clubs above us have been playing CL football, one of them is still in it, the team that sits in 7th two below us, is still in it. CL exposure is needed by this club, plus the financial rewards, years ago it was known as the European Cup, then you had the European Cup Winners Cup we won that, plus the other one that kept changing it's name, the one we won in 1984. Being in the CL means we play tuesday or wednesday, then Sat or Sun or Mon if TV has it's way, so being in the Europa this squad was big enough from the start to cope, injuries have put pay to that and tonight could see us exit, used in the right way is not the problem, our problems need searching a lot deeper then the Europa, start with the medical team.
spu 4 life
20/03/2014 10:16:00
0
Losing Bale and Liverpool keeping Suarez was obviously a huge part in it but I think Rodgers was and is a much better manager than AVB and that's why Liverpool are challenging for the league, plus Rodgers had to change the style of football Liverpool played for years so his first season was always going to be bumpy but as last year ended you could see Liverpool getting better and better. Rodgers is brilliant at developing players and tactics, just look at Henderson, Sterling, Flanagan Sturridge, and even the huge improvement in Suarez's finishing. If Rodgers had of picked Tottenham over Liverpool at the time, Tottenham would be the ones having a brilliant season.
Patrick Ó Fearghasa
20/03/2014 10:23:00
0
SPU-Our medical team operates on the cold sponge cures everything method.
coys1717
20/03/2014 10:29:00
0
Coys. Comolli said on talksport today that in all his time at Spurs he never saw Levy force a player on a manager. Doesn't prove it has not changed now but I think it probably has not, so AVB had a say in all signings.
rogerthelodger
20/03/2014 10:39:00
0
Rogerthelodger- Agree, it would be a huge coincidence that all the players brought fit nicely into AVB's 4-2-3-1 formation, with back-ups just in case, unless Levy decided for AVB he was going to play that formation.
coys1717
20/03/2014 10:48:00
0
Its become a standard excuse for sacked managers to claim they were forced to take players they didn't want. It makes no sense for a club to buy players the manager can't use and I don't buy it. Of course most managers don't get all the players they do want (Man City aside), that's part of being a manager. Rogers is a vastly better manager than AVB, I don't see how anyone can argue anything else. Where Levy is culpable is creating a reputation of Spurs being a hire and fire club, hence Rogers opting for Liverpool where he thought he'd be given more time.
jod
20/03/2014 11:02:00
0
Levy did try to sign Rodgers.He chose Liverpool after looking at the revolving doors policy at Spurs.He knew you need time & full control of transfers to build a good team.If Levy wants a similar manager to Rodgers then Pochettino is the obvious choice.His Southampton team play well organised attacking football,press the opposition high up the pitch [like Barca & Bayern] and use fast young players who are comfortable on the ball.I would pull out all the stops to sign him & give him full control of transfers.I wouldn't trust Tim to do my shopping in Waitrose,he come out with tins of spam.
Greavesaboveall
20/03/2014 11:05:00
0
Greavesaboveall - Interesting, so far Sherwood has had no say in signing any of the players in his squad. But you've already decided he's no good at it, no need for evidence then, you just "know".
jod
20/03/2014 11:17:00
0
After a relatively poor season Spurs are 5th and, Southampton after a relatively good season, are 8 points behind Spurs, in 8th. So why Pochettino?
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 11:21:00
0
I think we can learn a thing or two from the recent years - Two are paramount - patience and a strength of character to believe in our vision. We ought to have the AVB contract through to the end of this season... there was no point in getting rid of him and have no replacement lined up.

As for Commoli I don't believe a word he says - no player hoisted on to managers? - VdV comes to mind? Commoli is a toe rag - if he's so good where is he now ?

It seems Soldado had never played with the one man up front formation b4 so why would he have been bought to do that role? There are numerous examples through the years to suggest that Levy has fingers in all of the transfers - probably more than fingers...

We can't deride AVB and say at the same time Rodgers is great - lets see what happens in the future... it was less than a year ago that they were protesting about him...Let's see.

As previously stated we just have to look at the high frequency of injuries and the long recovery times we have had for the past 5-6 years as well as the (lack of) youth development at the club.

While there is plenty to learn from others - we have to pursue our own goals rather than 'copy' anybody else's!!!

Highgatespur
20/03/2014 11:21:00
0
Highgatespur... Here, here.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 11:23:00
0
Jod, the evidence is in the way we are playing.
Kong
20/03/2014 11:23:00
0
Brendon Rogers 1st season in charge of Liverpool? 7th in the PL and 11 points behind Spurs. AVB's 1st season in charge of Spurs, 5th.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 11:41:00
0
Pochettino didn't have £100 million to spend or inherit any big names [internationals]He spent very little but very wisely.Look how well organised his team looks on the pitch and the lovely football they play.Compare that to the headless chicken shambles that Spurs play under Tim.I have seen no progress under Tim ,apart from a re-vitalised Ade who just needed someone to believe in him.If Pochettino had Suarez,Sturridge,Gerrard etc in his team Saints would be well above us.Pochettino needs a big club to win the premiership -let it be us!
Greavesaboveall
20/03/2014 11:44:00
0
Greavesaboveall, I haven't mentioned TS against those two. I'm not going to big up managers of other teams after 1 relatively good season. In the PL we've seen it all before. Players and managers/coaches alike; one or two good seasons and then nothing to really speak of for many years to come.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 11:49:00
0
Can anybody seriously think that Levy would sit back for 2 years or more without implementing his will on the team/manager? I just think he is a control freak and must have his way on all things, even if he knows little about them. IF, as stated, he is a Spurs fan then he should get the right manager in and let him run the footballing side of the club. Give him an annual budget for buying players and, if the manager wants more, then he has to sell to fund the kitty. But I honestly cannot see Levy doing that. It is a really sorry situation for us fans.
longtimespur
20/03/2014 11:50:00
0
Man on- Rogers 2nd season in charge challenge for the title, AVB 2nd season in charge put us back 3-4 years.
coys1717
20/03/2014 11:52:00
0
coys1717. AVB left us in December. We don't know where we'd be if he had stayed.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 11:56:00
0
Anyway, like I said before, other teams don't concern me. It's how we turn things around that I care about.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 11:57:00
0
Man On,it's always a gamble signing a new manager,look how long it took Fergie to win anything with Utd.The candidates I like are similar to Fergie,Wenger,Mourinho & Rogers. Managers in their 30's who have cut their teeth in smaller leagues,play well-organised football,buy the right players [not necesarilly the most expensive] to fit in with their system,have a good youth policy and show progress every season.Pochettino ticks those boxes.
Greavesaboveall
20/03/2014 12:10:00
0
Greavesaboveall - as we all know it's a different ball
-when people have high expectations or even expectations
- when the management of players include high profile ones
- have impatient quick fire shooting habits at the club

Let's revisit these plaudits next year - remember Coyle, Allerdyce, Pardew, Lambert etc all purported to be GREAT manager at some point?!
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:12:00
0
Completely in agreement with you Man On! about AVB and concentrating on Spurs..
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:13:00
0
If we are to.consider Pochettino then Sean Dyche also should be on the list
kernowboy71
20/03/2014 12:15:00
0
Greavesaboveall - so who are the signings of Pochettino has taken to your liking and have been central to Soton's playing well ? Lovren, Wanyama or Osvaldo ?
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:18:00
0
Kong - Managing players is one thing, signing them a completely different skill, don't you understand the difference ? All our performances are showing is Tim can't get us into the top four with someone else's squad, what's that got to do with managing transfers ?
jod
20/03/2014 12:21:00
0
Greavesaboveall. I do agree about those guys but look at AVB and what he did with Porto. Those two have a long way to go before they've proved themselves to be the best. For next season I would like someone with proven ability and a long and successful career to date. LVG? Followed by the much younger De Boer?
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:22:00
0
Southampton are 8th, Newcastle 2 points behind with a game in hand, Pardew has had to sell his best player with no replacement. But Pochettino walks on water because he's foreign and Pardew is crap because he's English. Not my idea of how to assess managers.
jod
20/03/2014 12:26:00
0
Jod, to be fair, with the tactics Tim has shown and performances we have see, I really don't believe he could manage city or Chelsea into the top 4! I think even most of us could manage that! and then let him near a cheque book? no chance! he would buy a load of League 1 players and turn us even coder to being the wimbledon of the 80s than we are now! and he's done that with a squad of players, most of whom have played successfully for several clubs and their countries! Keep him away from anything to do with transfers! just a hunch! and preferably keep him away from Enfield, WHL and our players! just my opinion!
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 12:27:00
0
...and keep him away from Jesus tonight. Or he'll get the Wrath of God.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:29:00
0
.. or should that be the Wrath of Hod?
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:32:00
0
Jod, Pardew is crap not because he's English but for all his anti social behaviour on the sidelines!!! And what has he done with that 'security'' of an eight year contract?! If he doesn't like players being sold then go somewhere else where they don't - he must have known about the philosophy of Ashley when he signed... No comparison but Pardew is just no good as a man let alone a manager.
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:33:00
0
I believe their dug outs are further apart in Portugal, so he's gonna have to flap and flail really hard to build momentum to get anywhere near Jesus tonight! I'd say the ball boys, and any Benfica player taking throw-ins would be much more at danger!
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 12:34:00
0
keep Sherwood, he is passionate, knows football and the club, more importantly, he is a real person and a spurs blood.!
SpursWho
20/03/2014 12:34:00
0
Jod - The way we are going it is showing that Sherwood might get us lower than 5th with someone else's squad. Managing players is the main thing even if you selected them yourself. Does that mean Sherwood has to change all the squad because he did not sign them so we can judge him.
Kong
20/03/2014 12:34:00
0
like liverpool did, treat football club as a club, not a atm. yes, talking to you levi sir
SpursWho
20/03/2014 12:35:00
0
SpursWho. We'll see soon enough, come May.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:36:00
0
Spurs who, with a bedroom full of Arsenal Memorabilia!
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 12:36:00
0
SpursWho. Liverpool have quite a hefty debt.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:37:00
0
Dublin, agree on all that - but surely NO One will need to be giving an assurance like that to a person with only 12 months to run on his contract!!! So could the targets look like hmmmmm - give up!!!

COYS (going to the Pride to see the mighty ones win tonight!!!)
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:37:00
0
Maybe Tim could learn something from Liverpool, how to spit when speaking! he could have a quiet word with Jesus, really offend him with his dribbling and spraying, and get away with it. and maybe pick his pocket and nick his jacket at the same time! (he does need one with sleeves after all!) ;-?
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 12:40:00
0
Sorry, I didn't say that, it was the devil in me! sorry Jesus, and Hod!
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 12:40:00
0
....Their ATM is running low on cash.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:40:00
0
Man On! I think he's had the wrath of Hod ever since 2002 ... TS handing in an official grievance complaint...
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:43:00
0
Kong - I say again what has any of what you are saying got do with whether or not he's any good at signing players ? You don't assume someone is no good at plumbing because he's a lousy electrician, or do you ?
jod
20/03/2014 12:44:00
0
Yeah Highgate, I seriously doubt he would be in control of transfers with a questionable year left on his short term contract! He will have no say, and he won't be here anyway so no need to worry! I put up an article in Jan about him being a charlatan or a genius. I think the former is more likely, and his words playing down any transfers we are looking at and unsettling the squad players is becoming tantamount to sabotage! I did say that!
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 12:44:00
0
Highgatespur.. That's what I had in mind. I wonder if Hod will be a pundit tonight?
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:45:00
0
Dublin I hear he's invested in straws for him and his boyz to aim those pellets with !!!

Great post - about the jacket!!!
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:45:00
0
Kong - that's what you can do in the fantasy league - buy players with the minimum value - then pretend to tell them they are playing for their futures - who cares? you won't be in the house in a year's time? Mission - destroy Spurs!!!
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:46:00
0
Highgatespur - Given their relative league positions then if Pardew is a crap manager then so is Pochettino. The only rational way to judge managers is on their performance.
jod
20/03/2014 12:46:00
0
Enjoy the pride Highgate, Hopefully a good atmosphere, and a good performance from our depleted team! If Utd can come back, why can't we! come on lads, for the fans, the travelling faithful and for pride! COYS!
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 12:46:00
0
Dublin Hotspur... I remember that article. ;-)
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:47:00
0
Jod - I agree - including their performance on the sidelines - No comparison there mate!!! Pardew - one of the classless men!
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:48:00
0
Highgate,you have a point there.I don't know much about 2 of them,but Osvaldo is a good player but also a bit psycho,so yes bad buys.We can have good look at Saints on Sunday and see if I talking b----x or not.One things for sure I wouldn't want to hand my wallet over anyone who hasn't got a track record in the transfer market.We really do need an experienced manager but not an old bloke parachuted in for a quick fix like Van Gaal.We need to build a dynasty not a retirement home.
Greavesaboveall
20/03/2014 12:48:00
0
Jod - It doesn't but my point is how would you know if someone is good at signing players if they are a bad manager and the team does bad. I know we can't judge Tim until be actually does buy his own players but by the evidence of how his teams play I don't want to find out.
Kong
20/03/2014 12:49:00
0
Greavesaboveall. He could be the foundation to that dynasty before retiring to Portugal, a Spurs legend.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:54:00
0
Totally agree with this article. AVB wasn't given the environment or the time to make a go of it. I find it hilarious that Tim Sherwood who used to say 'it makes me laugh when people talk about about a project - the fact is you win games or get sacked' is now saying 'we need to be patient like Liverpool'. That said, I would also like to see him stay and be given the right level of backing. I think the fundamental flaw at our great club is Daniel Levy's belief that the 'coach' should be part of a committee, which means the whole squad doesn't have to change when the coach changes. Wrong! The 'Manager' needs to be backed to develop the profile and authority to manage a group of players. If the manager does need replacing at some point, any intelligent manager wouldn't look to change the whole squad. If he thinks he needs to - don't employ him.
Archibald Leitch
20/03/2014 12:54:00
0
ManOn! Does GH do ITV4 - it will probably be GS and the other one... I get bored easily with the pundits unless I agree with them!!!

GH won't resist the temptation will he ? He's done well so far....
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:55:00
0
Dublin, that article was probably before I was tempted by Vital Spurs and in my period of "Give him time" until that mouth just couldn't stop spewing garbage!! btw my thoughts exactly....
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:56:00
0
Well said Dublin - by the looks of it yesterday many will be at the bookies to bet against Soton on Sunday and will be elsewhere with no interest in the game... hmmmmm

COME ON YOU SPURS!!!
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 12:56:00
0
Not sure. I do like Strachan though. He at least has a sense of humour and seems to be pro Spurs.
MAN ON!
20/03/2014 12:57:00
0
some things we could learn from Liverpool: how not to be classy

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/liverpool-trailer-new-reality-show-3182132
Dublin Hotspur
20/03/2014 13:01:00
0
We may surprise everyone tonight,after all Manure did last night!C'mon you Spurs.
Greavesaboveall
20/03/2014 13:02:00
0
to be fair, Liverpool are relying a lot on Suarez as Tottenham did on Bale. IF Suarez goes at the end of teh season then next year will be a huge season for Liverpool, as this has been for Tottenham.
Paddavis5
20/03/2014 13:03:00
0
It is unfair to allege Tottenham have not learned their lesson. They have learned how to appoint the wrong manager every time.
cynicspur
20/03/2014 13:03:00
0
The only thing you can learn from Liverpool is that if you have a superstar who wants out, offer them a new contract and an obscene amount of money to improve your chances of hanging on to the player.
Guyver
20/03/2014 13:05:00
0
Greavesaboveall, Bob Paisley wasn't that young nor was Shankly... For me the likes of Van Gaal is the only option!!!
Agree with ManOn! here

Pochettiono will be competing against xxxx this Sunday, no contest there mate - unfair to judge anyone on this...

Are you retracting your previous point on his good quality signings as Adkins had a good style of play there before he was fired! I think you are saying what I'm thinking - it's too early to give him the plaudit you were giving him previously.
Highgatespur
20/03/2014 13:06:00
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