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Jan Vertonghen

Now I will begin this article by saying that I was massively impressed by Jan, SuperJan, last season and saw him as a player to build our spine around - along with Loris and Sandro.

Clearly then he has talent. Now onto this season - I cannot remember a game in which Jan has impressed me and most certainly in the last few months it has seemed clear that he also has a poor attitude. There are so many images of Jan in the tunnel before the match on Sunday and quite rightly, as a supporter you have to be worried by that body language.

I have noticed it before. So, the big debate is - do we feel Jan is someone we should try to keep or sell? Those in the club will know the truth and his attitude and dip in form may just be second season syndrome and frustration at his form. However, I think it is more likely that he wants out and the AVB sacking and employment of Tim (don't get me started on that one) was a good excuse to force a move, protect himself for World Cup year and it would seem, appear too good for the club we love.

Speculation, loss of form or bad attitude. Either way, my opinion of Jan is no longer Super and his performances, for me, no longer warrant him being a natural starter and I would be looking for a centre back as well as a left back as a priority. I am expecting divided opinion on this, we are a loyal bunch and do not know the real facts, sympathy with his frustrations at Tim, but poor performances in a Spurs shirt none the less.

Written by Windlespur




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The journalist

Writer: windlespur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Wednesday April 2 2014

Time: 9:00AM

Your Comments

seems like now we have sold our best players, including Bale, players like Jan and Paulinho who signed based on the premise they'd be playing alongside Bale now feel betrayed. but that's football.
Spurfect11
Whats surprising about Jan is that he doesn't even try to hide his lack of effort. Ledley played on through pain, heck even Hossam Ghaley played on for us after having his front teath kicked out. Super Jan? More like Ginger tw*t, he has become haalf-a55ed to the club that pays him millions a year to perform for 90 minutes a week. He complains about where he plays and doesn't complain when Belgium play him there. His slips, mistakes and lazy play have cost us points and he doesn't even go to clap the travelling support. The man is a cancer within our club, get rid and good riddance!
sukhothai
Windle. I posted an article called "put up or shut up" a few weeks back saying pretty much what your article says. I completely agree. Bale might have wanted to leave but he still gave his all, something I don't see in Vertonghen.
spurfect one
If LVG is our next manager then we should keep Vertonghen. He will stay to play for LVG and LVG will make sure he works his knackers off or he'll be cleaning the toilets after training for a few weeks. What is clear is that Jan has a big, big ego. If he feels the manager he is playing for is a match for him in terms of ability and ambition then he will play for them. If he feels he is superior to them he will just take the pi$$. He will have met his match with LVG. If Sherwood stays or someone as unproven as him arrives as manager then we need to ship Vertonghen out because his malaise will be contagious and will cause nothing but problems. Over to you then Daniel Levy.
SpuriousLife
Its what Sherwood was saying, if te attitude isn't right then nothing else matters.
jod
The problem here I believe is Sherwood, why would you want to play for a moronic half wit with absolutely no idea. Jan has been brought up in a country who's philosophy is that of total football not "Right you F*ckers run a F*ckin rand or I'll Punch Ya".... We've lost the time hopefully this will lead to losing Tim Nice but Dim soon. I still don't rule out losing Lloris, Jan and Paulinho as the end of the season.
fletch77
fletch77 - If a player decides he can pick and choose who he plays for regardless of whose paying him then he isn't someone you want at your club. When a club is trying to punch above its weight, as we constantly are, then it can't afford players who play when they feel like it.
jod
There is a very obvious attitude issue with Verts. You would expect every player to look enthusiastic and be bouncing around to psych themselves up in the tunnel before the game. But he just looks like it’s an ordeal he has to go through. Even when he was playing well he never looked like he was enjoying it. Every Spurs fan would take his place for a tenth of his salary if they got the chance. I’d play for board and keep! If his attitude persists I think he has to go ... he looks like he’ll probably make it happen in any case. Sad really.
Geofspurs
Told you at the start of the season that Jan was massively over-rated as a defender (in that he's not actually that good in stopping the opposition scoring) and his flaws were covered up by scoring a few goals. I also said that I'd take both Kos and Merts above Jan and that Wenger had it right when he looked to buy him as a def-mid as opposed to a defender. And oh how you laughed.

He's just like Vermalen in style and ability. Look beyond the image he has and look at his stats - tackles, headers won/lost, clean sheet % etc and you'll find that he is not that good!

Think he will be off in the summer anyway and if Barca offer 15m bite their hand off and get Caulker back from Cardiff with some change!

Galway Gooner
fletch .... Forget about the politics .... why doesn't he just enjoy playing the beautiful game for it's own sake, just like we would. Or find a career he does enjoy!
Geofspurs
So Jan goes from our best player to being alienated by the "fans" as our worst player. Being called out for "His" dip in form and his "costly" mistakes... WOW!!! Lets put things into perspective a little, the WHOLE team is playing sheit! Jan has been asked to play either side of CB and LB and a cameo CDM role at some stage, Jan has had to share his def duties with the 'ever increasingly positively good guy who runs around and jumps into tackles with the captains arm band on' who who who is a complete joke of a defender and should not be on the same planet as Verts never mind the same phucking pitch!!! Tell me how is Dawsons form windlespurs? Danny Rose anyone? Phuckit if you actually take your rose tinted glasses off and see the picture as a whole u will notice that despite Jan operating at 50% he is still leagues ahead of any of our def players. Do u want to know why Jan is annoyed? Cause he is sick and tired of being managed by a complete novice who has phuckall clue about tactics! Add the deluded fan base who jeer rather than support! Sure lets sell Jan cause he looks annoyed by losing! Who's the phucking LOSERS then???
Mix26
GG ... difficult to argue with that!
Geofspurs
Mix26, Verts played with Dawson the whole of last season and that didn't do him any harm. All our defenders are not playing well, actually Rose is playing his normal game as is Dawson so it shows when Vert's form dips.
Kong
Kong that just tells me the guy has patience... I seriously doubt he would have expected to partner the calamity which is Dawson who week in and week out commits suicide in defense.
Mix26
GG phuck off with that non-sense Mr know it all! Show us the stats then u obnoxious****
Mix26
his too slow
ghulamville
Defo keep him, he's just as disillusioned as the fans. He probably wants a decent coach to develop his game. Something Dim isn't capable of. Surely the appointment of LVG would fire Jan up and show our ambition - at least for one more year.
mattspurs1982
This malaise has infected more than just vertonghen , if it was just him I would be the first to say get rid but their are plenty on the park showing a distinct lack of enthusiasm, players not closing down or chasing back or busting their asses to support an attack , there is something seriously wrong at our club and it is more than one issue . There wont be any easy or quick fix to this and personally think this could set us back for at least a couple of seasons . Some serious leadership is going to be needed , on and off the park .I hope i'm wrong .
sandroman
GG in the same line let's sell him to one of the best sides on the planet! Yes he is sooooo shiet! Belgium are a massively crap team ranked 10 on the planet.
Mix26
Ghulamville , I have seen plenty of players with no real speed , what he has is speed of thought , which all the best players have , plus Daws makes him look like speedy bluudy Gonzales .
sandroman
That is true Mix26, in an ideal world it would have been verts and Kaboul but that is not going to happen that often and kaboul doesn't look the player he was.
Kong
I'd rather ship out Chiriches, Dawson and Kaboul and start fresh with defence. Buy back Caulker, Fryers can be 4th CB and add another good EPL defender to compliment Verts. If Dim is in charge - probably Shawcross (aka Chris Perry) lol
mattspurs1982
Kong in truth I felt Chiriches would suit Jan better in the long run as Kaboul is far too injury prone to rely on.
Mix26
It is clear that Jan has limitations, attitude aside, in the areas of pace and aerial dominance but these are compensated by his reading of the game and the ability to bring the ball out of defence, or would be if any of the other players were looking to receive the ball rather than hiding. I think in a better team he would shine, but in a poor side his weaknesses are exposed This coupled with the sale of Bale and I guess the guy is just demotivated with Tim's tactics being the final straw. I agree with GG though, if Barca want him, grab the money but I wouldn't spend it on Caulker who is another defensive nightmare.
Harry-Kari
I forgot about Chiriches, he has not partnered Jan yet so that could work well if we get a chance to see them play together.
Kong
I'm with mix, sandroman and mattspurs!! Good posts. You too kong!
sandroman, and anyone else interested, aintree races start tomorrow and spu4life, me and anyone else who cares to will be posting selections and tips on coopsies last nonsense thread!
Dublin Hotspur
sandroman-if their was a foot race between verts/daws my money would be on daws
ghulamville
Oh and good posts fletch and spurious too!
Dublin Hotspur
Matt, I think vlad is class.
Dublin Hotspur
But Jan's reading of the game and anticipation of danger is far superior to Daws - so he doesn't need to be quicker. I don't think the high line helps any of our defenders. Maybe a change in tactics will see an overall change in defensive form. Maybe this is why Jan is fed up - he's not set up for success in our current approach
mattspurs1982
Harry-Kari, very well put and to be honest there is no real argument to that post. ghulamville do u regularly fold pocket aces cause u "also like to live dangerously'
Mix26
All of these so called underperforming players are full internationals or on the cusp , this is not footballing skill issue , there is a problem with the mindset at present , none of us know the inner workings of the club so have no way of truly knowing what is undermining these players motivation , I sure we can make some educated guesses but what ever the problems or issues are they do appear to be running deep .
sandroman
Unfortunately, I think we've already lost him and he'll agitate for a move in the summer. Similar to Lloris. And that's Levy's fault, not Dim's
mattspurs1982
The problem goes back to the summer...we needed to buy a LB, Rose as a returning loanee should never have been put as 1st choice and fryers was miles of....yet we didn't...resulting in Jan having to cover the left side -playing LB when Rose was injured and having to play CB and LB when Rose was fit- we had the opprtunity to fix that in January and again declined...you see Verts isn't the problem it's having players like Rose as 1st choice that's brings the others down....Capoue and Pauli watching a guy who should be cleaning their boots take their place...Soldado watching Townsend lose possession by blazing another shot into row Z instead of passing to him...the chairman selling the best players and then appointing an idiot to manage...'the project' is derailed, there is no ambition from the board...why does anyone expect players to jump for joy? Like anyone else they'll try and be professional but they will leave as soon as they can...
shedboy2
For me, Vlad isn't good enough in the air for the EPL. If he can cut out the lapses and Cryuff turns o the 18 yard line, he may be class
mattspurs1982
Ghulamville , was talking speed of thought and on the ball . Daws not even on the same page , nice guy but .
sandroman
Lloris will be te one big loss,the others can be dispensed with
ghulamville
sandroman-not this season he hasnt.positionally his been all over the place.
ghulamville
Mix26

Per PL Game

Tackles: Jan 1.4, Kos 2.1, Merts 1.3, Cahil 1 Terry 1 Komp 2.3 Agger 1.5

so not too shabby there!

Interceptions: Jan 1.7, Kos 2.7, Mert 1.7 Cahil 1.9, Terry 1.1, Komp 1.9, Agger 0.9

Not bad there either!

Blocked shots

Jan 0.3, Kos 0.7, Mert 0.6, Daws 0.1, Cahil 0.8, Terry 0.6, Komp 0.6 Agger 04

So underperforming there.

Overall clearances per game:

Jan 4.5, Kos 7.2 Mert 7, Daw 1.1,Cahil 7.4, Terry 6.7, Komp 5.5, Agger 5.5

So below average there.

Looking at those stats I'd say that over the defenders selected that Dawson is clearly the worst followed by Jan.

Also worth noting that since Jan joined your average goals per game (against) has gone from 1.08 in 2011/12, to 1.21 2012/13 to 1.38 this season.

Galway Gooner
I don't see Jan Vertonghen as a weekness, when he arrived he showed us all why we chased after him to sign for us, yes his had a dip in form, like the rest of them. He can't be that bad Barca would have him tomorrow if they could, can't say that about Dawson and Rose, when you have those two either side of you, it's hard to look a class player, which he is.
spu 4 life
Cannot underestimate how debilitating it must be for Jan to have to cover Danny Rose, who's ALWAYS half way up the pitch every time we concede from our left flank
mattspurs1982
until summer 2015
Kong
Barcelona have been given a transfer ban by Fifa until summer might mean Jan won't be going there even if he wanted to.
Kong
So we fans can get disillusioed withthe club, demand the manager be changed, deride the player sfor poor performances, dispare when certain players are selected despite the fact we all know they will struggle. But Jan must plaster on a $hit easting grin, and run around as if nothing is wrong and none of the above is allowed to phase him. Double standards?
Slurms McKenzie
I cannot understand why we pick on Jan now. Have Rose, Kaboul, Dawson, Walker been so excellent??? Jan is still our best defender and someone with whom you can build up play from the back. We should try to keep players like Jan and try to surround him with other players of his quality instead of the Roses or Naughtons that we keep year in year out!
G Spur
Good posts Slurms and G Spur.
SpuriousLife
G Spur our whole defensie unit has been awfull since the first hammering of the season, And they have only gotten worse since AVB left. I don't blame the individuals, I can sympathise with Jan as he sees his reputation been shredded by those being played aroudn him, this is not the set-up he signed for!
Slurms McKenzie
Sorry shoud have read "by how those are being played around him"
Slurms McKenzie
You're welcome Jan ... I mean SpuriousLife
Slurms McKenzie
Good post Jod and Harry Kari, but seeing as Barca has been banned from signing players for the nxt 2 TW's, he wont be going there soon

Wow a post for Mix u do agree with, the ones telling GG to phuck off, who cares what he thinks about Spurs players!!! bootom line is he's a good defender just having a poor season.
Ossie
Lol GG that's intriguing you've successfully compared Jan to the best def in the league and his stats look great as far as I can see. Basically a player which reads the game very well and played half the season at LB so not really in the position to block more shots and which none of those other few players u mentioned have played and he successfully passes the ball out of defense rather than hoofing it? Suffice to say that since Jan joined he is partnered with a donkey.
Mix26
Compared to last season (in brackets):

Tackles 1.4 (3.1)

Interceptions: 1.8 (2.9)

Blocked Shots: 0.3 (0.2) Clearances: 4.7 (8.7)

While your defence has gotten worse this season to last (by about 14% Goals per game ratio) Jan own performance level has dropped by about 80% (statistic based only!).

Maybe he's having a pi$$ poor season or maybe he simply had a great season last year and this season is his level?

Mix, he hasn't played that much at left back and even if he did left/right backs make far more tackles and interceptions than CB. They block less shots.

Galway Gooner
Thank you Galway, you have shown why Spurs have struggled so much this season over last season. And the massive impact a tactical change has on a team. I don't attribute a 80% drop in form to a player having a wonder season and then finding his level, I suggest it is the result of a very good player being played in a very bad defensive formation and set-up.
Slurms McKenzie
I am not saying that he's 80% worse than last season Slurms only that's what his stats show and while useful as a guide they never tell the full picture.

I think his form has been far worse than last year and that some of his limitations are being exposed this season far more than last. Maybe that's because he's known as a player now and opposition managers have targeted weak areas of his game.

As to the is he a great player having a bad season or a average player who was great last year well so far we only have 2 seasons worth of stats in the PL to go on so either theory has the same data for and against it!

My own feeling is that his lack of pace will always be an issue in England and he'd be better suited in Italy.

Galway Gooner
I'm not disputing the stats Galway, I agree that the "known" entity factor does come into play, but he has been very much hamstrung with the highline tactics Spurs insist on playing, despite not reallly having any CBs or full backs capable of playing this system, which in turn more then highlights his lack of pace. In this case I don't think the stats lie, he is very much having a season to forget but I think the blame for a lot of it lies at other peoples door.
Slurms McKenzie
A number of factors here. Jan was quite public about being used as LB. That's one of the reasons why he left Ajax. Ajax failed to play him in his preferred position and I bet he mentioned to AVB he must play CB. Injuries also dictated where he played ..yep LB again and to add to his woes Spurs failed to bring in a LB during the transfer window. Plus he gets injured playing LB. Also Verts gets thrown in to the lions den without much match practice hence his poor form. COYS!
James1
Also interesting how when we dismiss the value of a defensive midfielder this season, our top performing CB's stats tumble as well?
Slurms McKenzie
Good comments & agree Mix - I would not have Dawson in my side. I would love to have a motivated, performing Jan in our team. As some have said (& I did) he has qualities, but we have all seen that he has been poor this season (backed up by GG stats if you are into that). MY BIG VIEW is that we need a change of Manager NOW. Things with the likes of Jan, Hugo, Eriksen, Sandro (all players we should keep) could get much worse before the summer window opens. Lets hope they get better, but feel these players need an announcement and even if Freund in charge, a better end to the season for such momentum.
Windlespur
Of course the likes of Vertonghen, Paulinho, Lloris, Capoue have lost heart, and are going through the motions, waiting on an end of season move out. Who can blame them, they were fed all the crap about CL qualification, and the club's ambition, and vision for the future etc, what happens, Lloris apart, they have not known from week to week whether they are playing, or in what position they are playing, and have ended up in a side managed by a sponge man, a total novice, a football idiot, with no man management skills, no playing system, no understandable tactics, baffling team selections and set ups, and an insatiable ego, and they know there are others out there interested, probably prepared to pay them higher wages, providing they don't get themselves crocked before the end of the season. But no worries because if he stays in charge, which is apparently the chairman's preferred option, Sherwood will ensure that we will have the march of all the Benteleb clones into the first team, and we will begin our 2014-5 assault on reaching the 40 points necessary to retain PL status. We might even narrow the pitch, and find a long throw merchant to complete our conversion to a Stoke City under Tony Pullis look alike. What an absolutely inspired prospect, just the way to fill the new stadium, if indeed we ever build it.
Frank
A goalkeeper's job is made easier with a steady, consistent and confident back 4. Same applies to CB's when they know they can trust the midfield to plug the gaps between midfield and defence. Nothing worse knowing the midfield are not up to the task and have to do more than one job. CB was my position and I know how difficult it is with a leaky midfield and that goes for any standard of football. COYS!
James1
Mix - nobody has said Jan has gone from being our best player to our worst. His performances have gone from great to poor and his attitude to boot. Me, I would get a manager in who can make him great again (no coach can do that with Dawson) but can not hide how bitterly disappointed I am with his performances and attitude. Yes, TERRIBLE Decisions made have contributed massively I feel (Selling Bale, appointing Tim), but no excuse for his unprofessionalism. Do I want Jan to stay & regain high levels - Yes.
Windlespur
That's true, James. It's about having a good balance throughout the whole team, front to back, and then trusting in each other and playing as a team. Not easy if you don't have the right players with the right attitude.
Geofspurs
Remember at one point this season, we had the most clean sheets and best defence. Then it all went pear shaped. As for the goals against ratio, you cant hold Verts alone responsible, the entire defence takes the credit for that. He is accountable for the mistakes he has made and wether its down to form or lack of effort or attitude, he should be more professional and try and address his weaknesses. Or perhaps that is the managers job??? Anyway, if LVG was announced as next seasons manager tomorrow, I am sure you would see a change in attitude from the players. Then again if I had to play with Dawson and Rose every week I know how I would feel.
vicspur
It's also about players not thinking they might as well pi$$ into the wind, as play for a manager for whom they have no respect, or belief, they realise that they are better than that, and will go elsewhere and prove it. We will see the overwhelming majority of our better players seeking moves in the summer, unless we get an unambiguous statement from Levy very soon, on the manager position situation for next season. If it is to be Sherwood, then we should expect the exodus to accelerate at the end of the season.
Frank
Very true Geof. How are you mate? Been hectic at home over the last few weeks..not been able to post on VS as much as I would like (probably a good thing lol). COYS!
James1
my god..a spurs article and posts and not one mention of the words champions league or top 4... my god !!!!
I Bling Red
Frank, good point re:the silence from Levy on the manager's position. Is it because Sherwood is going to continue next season or is it, as the Guardian suggests, because the LVG deal is still being finalised. Either way, the lack of a clear statement from Levy is just going to cause the current malaise to continue.
Harry-Kari
windlespur, is this a wind up? Blimey. If no, please can you lot sell Jan(fondly called Verts on here last term, if memory serves correctly) to the Pride of London? Yes, that illustrious club that turns your grounds, WHL, to Three Lovely Points Lane, TLPL, and recently blitzed those Woolwich scums 6-nowt?? Also, while at it, can you kindly send Lloris, Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and Townsend on loan to our reserve team?? Thanks in anticipation ;) COYS lol
HGH Magic
Frank, spat my tea out at "sponge man"ha ha lol!
LongTimeSpursFan64
^^and Chelsea need more staff. So, would you be kind enough to include Paulinho, Dembele and Daws lol in that chicken contingent to serve as club janitor, butler and dishwasher respectively? Thanks bro, most kind of ya ;)
HGH Magic
Every season our big major players have this issue,it`s a pattern that continues to repeat itself at Spurs.
Carrick,Modric,keane,Berbatov,Bale,now Vertonghen.....

Something wrong with the club not the player as this situation should not happen as often as it does.

The right manager bringing the right mentality is what we need.

IMO it looks like Spurs actually give these players false promises & false dawns.Lloris will be next....
project??? please explain how this Spurs we`re seeing now is any sort of project.
To promise player one thing & find ourselves in this situation then maybe Vertonghen has been misread.

Maybe Vertonghen is feeling the same as Spurs fans,we`ve all given up the same as he has & a big part of me doesn`t blame him.
he came here in good spirits but the club has let him down,the club has let the fans down & all the club does it let people down.
Fanny adams
I just think we should see it from Vertonghens point of view.

Liverpool & Spurs this season are chalk & cheese in terms of motivation,happy fans & team spirit.

I find it odd that fans are criticising Vertonghen because he`s feeling exactly the same way you are.
Fanny adams
I'll not single out Jan but, I don't care what the circumstances are with tactics, coaching, broken promises or, whatever. A player should give his all, regardless. I'd rather watch 10 Dawson's running around with a blood and guts attitude and lose, than watch half a team of Messis' who couldn't give a damn and lose anyway. That is the same for Sunday league as it is for the PL.
MAN ON!
If I get a new boss at work that I think doesn't have a clue what their doing, then It's up to me to show them how. I can't make excuses for my own lack of a professional attitude, if I already know how the job should be done.
MAN ON!
why is everyone making escuses for jan.some of the reasons are truly mind boggling.we seem to be more critical on certain players and less so on others
ghulamville
*They're doing*
MAN ON!
ghulamville. I agree.
MAN ON!
I'm good, James. Hope it was 'hectic' in a good way! I'm trying to get my head around the thought that a new manager will fix everything. A lot of people seem to think so but I'm not sure it's that easy, but, we'll see. I'm really looking forward to the Sunderland game, even if the KO is 4am Monday morning!
Geofspurs
whoever is in charge next season has a massive clearing out job to do,i dont think the expectation should be top 4 at all.i just hope daniel levy realises this
ghulamville
MAN ON! "If you get a new boss at work that I think doesn't have a clue what their doing, then It's up to me to show them how."

But it`s not your job to show your boss how to do is,he should already be qualified enough to know,or he shouldn`t have got the job,you should have.

The point is Vertonghen is not in a good place,his boss is $hit & he`s mentally wrong for games.
Get the right boss in then players like vertonghen will be back to their best.Players are pawns & can only do what the manager says,Sherwood is getting too much wrong & the players are reacting negatively.

IMO Vertonghen has been made a scapegoat because he`s one of our best players & normally so reliable it`s a shock to see him like this.Soldado,Lennon,Rose,Walker,Dembele,Paulinho,Chadlii,Siggy,etc have all been the same.
,br.i don`t think it`s right to expect more from Vertonghen than any other player just because he`s normally one of the better ones.He`s been punished for being good & dependable,where as others have been $hit all season yet have got away with it.

lennons assists & goals this season? refused to go to the fans.You don`t expect anything from lennon so are not surprised when he don`t deliver,that`s lennon.Same with Rose,Dawson,Walker,Siggy etc
But with vertonghen you really think he`s going to do a Bale & carry the team all year? why should he..

And IMO Lloris is getting pi$$ed off with it to.It`s not their job to carry fellow pros who are earning the same money.
How many games as Adebayor played?but it`s alright for him to pick & choose when he wants to play,at least vertonghen shows his face.
Fanny adams
Agree & you know, if JAN really wants a move (Understandable BTW re: Tim) then he should be showing prospective employers exactly how fecking good he is, how great HIS attitude is - despite the team around him. He should not want a questionable attitude or dodgy stats. I am still hoping a new Manager can rescue the situation with him & a few others - just the silence is deafening.
Windlespur
if jan has anything about him he will have to give us another season.its only right and proper.he has let tim sherwood and his team mates down badly.he should use michael dawson as an example
ghulamville
I think that unfortunately Vertongen has turned out to be a player who is not as good as we hoped he'd be for us and it's being exposed this season more than last due to the fact that he is now a known entity and his weaknesses are being exploited by the more thorough PL managers. The good. He's definitely a good footballer, he sees a pass and can put crosses in the box when played at LB. He also reads the game well in the defensive sense.

The bad, he seriously lacks pace, he's poor in the air, is easily wound up by the opposition and seems to lack heart and desire. These traits especially the lack of pace, and being poor aerially are going to be exposed regularly against top PL sides, and so they have been. Vertonghen's problems like Dawson and Kaboul havn't been helped by the stupid highline, lack of MF cover and fullbacks that don't seem to know how to or want to defend.

The chaos this season at the club hasn't helped Verts, and for that I can sympathise but like the others he should still be out there trying his best for the fans who pay their money. The public talk about LB and possible move to a CL club IMO was totally inappropriate and suggests that he thinks he's better than the others and too good for Spurs. He may win a keepy uppy contest amongst the players, but PL defence isn't about who's the best footballer, it's about being able to keep the oppo from scoring. For me anyway, I would be happy to see him go, and for once replace him with a PL defender with the right attributes, one who knows how to head a ball, and if it's not too much to ask one who has some pace.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Fanny adams. Of course my boss should know what she's doing, but her job is different to mine. If they don't inspire confidence in me then I can't give up on the people that rely on me. That's my colleagues, other professionals, my clients and the public. By the way, my boss hasn't a clue how to motivate her staff but her admin skills are second to none. I still have to do my job properly.
MAN ON!
Vets will be gutted he won't be joining Barca for at least the next 2 years
Lee Treend
ghulamville 100% don`t agree but that`s opinions.

IMO & just that,i think it`s the club that has let Vertonghen & Lloris down.These players are feeling exactly how us fans are feeling & there are positives in that.
What was the first thing against liverpool Kaboul did?score an own goal
First thing Dawson did? give away a goal

What is worse for me is $hit players like Rose telling us how great Sherwood is,phuck off with at that $hit.
What is worse is lennon doing nothing for an hour,Bentaleb the same,where`s Adebayor?convenient,,,What did Siggy do?Chadlii?,,Dembele not the same,,,,Sandro not even brought on so something in that one,but you can hide on the bench & escape the wrath.
Massive fan of vertonghen & remember what he said when he first came here,the reasons he chose Spurs is because he brought into the Spurs bull$hit.He chose us over big big clubs & it`s about time we started to repay that faith.

Fans must be wiser because Vertonghen is.The club needs a manager who can get these players playing to their best,not have them like this,it`s unhealthy & staff moral should never be underestimated,at any business.Look at Liverpool,i can do nothing but admire & respect them
Fanny adams
Agreed MAN ON, just cause your boss is incompetent, doesn't mean you have to be, it's about personal pride and integrity. Can many of the Spurs players this year really turn and face the fans and say that they gave it their all?. For example, when Chelski sacked AVB and Di Matteo took over. He was a manager that didn't have much experience, and no where near as high profile as they had been used to. How did they respond? They won the CL and the FA cup. Why can't our players circle the wagons and play like it's their last day on earth? I mean this year the player of the season vote is going to be interesting. I think I'd give it to Chirpy.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
C A, Chirpy has an uncanny resemblance to Tim. Are they related?...... I always think of Wimbledon's 'crazy gang' and their winning mentality. It got them from the 4th to the first division in successive seasons. Was that down to great tactics and beautiful football? Certainly not. It was down to sheer guts and hard fought teamwork. I hated them as a team and their bullyboy tactics but, hard work and a siege mentality got them there. Couple that with skill and flair and you have the balance of a winning team playing beautiful football. I would like to think so anyway.
MAN ON!
"IMO Vertonghen has been made a scapegoat because he`s one of our best players & normally so reliable it`s a shock to see him like this.Soldado,Lennon,Rose,Walker,Dembele,Paulinho,Chadlii,Siggy,etc have all been the same. .i don`t think it`s right to expect more from Vertonghen than any other player just because he`s normally one of the better ones.He`s been punished for being good & dependable,where as others have been $hit all season yet have got away with it."

Vertonghen isn't being made a scapegoat, no-one is blaming him for the clubs current situation. He is being criticized for putting in relatively poor performances and not playing with the desire he showed last season. All that's expected of Vertonghen and everyone else, is that they give 100% and play to the standard they are capable of. If a player is crap, that's not their fault, but if a player isn't making the effort, then it's all on them.
Guyver
MAN ON, get your CV into Levy for the manager job, definitely some talent there I think!!!
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Guyver My point is there are 10 players the same.The fact there are 10 players the same,playing as badly & without any effort like Vertonghen tells me he is used as a scapegoat.

Is Vertonghen alone in his playing attitude? IMO NO & it`s very collective.The fact it`s very collective tells me it`s wrong to single out one indivdual.

Or do people want to discuss everybody playing well giving 100% & Vertonghen letting them all down?
Vertonghen is being singled out because he`s our best outfield player.
Fanny adams
Fanny,is Vertonghen alone in being criticized? No, so how can he be a scapegoat? He's being blamed for his own performance and his own lack of desire, not for the demise of the club. Why should he be immune from criticism? Paulinho, Soldado, Siggy, Dembele, Lennon, Adebayor ect. They've all had their articles when form or effort has dropped. Should Vert's be given a free pass?
Guyver
I am quite sad to see such a posting on one of our best players. Jan Vertonghen was one of the best players in the league last year. It must be a concern to all at the club why such a fall in form... it's been said that JV was criticised at the Chelski game and since - well what has been done about it ?
If he is at fault drop him ! No he has played in all of the games - we could have played a combination of Fryers, dawson, Kaboul and a CD from the Development squad? We keep playing him - maybe he is depressed - I won't be surprised if no enquiry has been made.
Has anyone thought that JV plays for two people at every game due to the lack of a LB's skills.
What has been done at the training session - what are they coaching on? what are they doing to rectify the mistakes from the previous - maybe that should be the subject of posting.
Has anyone seen the effect when chins go down when others are not pulling their weight towards a team effort yet the boss doesn't have the balls to tackle it ?
I think we do need to know who is asking those questions and working to improve ?
Experienced players or not they all need to be coached - how have the coaches earned their salaries... Lets enquire why all this fiasco rather than pick one of best asset we have at the club.
Simple directive tie your laces well beforee the kick off - STOP - hasn't been either heeded or taken place>
Highgatespur
@Highgate, yesterday we talked a bit about the coaching situation at the club, and I'd love to hear some answers. Instead of the statement today regarding the stadium and the financials, I would have preferred it if DL would have told the fans his vision for improvement of development, coaching and management of players going forward. Right now I would sincerely love to know what Les Ferdinand, Tim Sherwood, Steffen Freund and Franco Baldini do with their time on non game days, because I've got absolutely no idea what their respective roles are supposed to be.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Cleveland - yes 100%. It is almost insane what the club is getting away ... I think this 'announcement' is meant to be a sweetener for us to ST renewals coming soon... as for coaching elements - what a joke !
Highgatespur
Jan has been mucked about all season, AVB played him out of position and now he is in a back four that contains Dawson and Rose who are consistent in their mediocrity and error making. Add to this that he is probably intellegent to see what some on here are apparently blind to: Sherwood is a caretaker - EU employment laws mean that all contracts are only good for half the time they are written for so 18 months means 9 months. He is a good player but he is fed-up, just as we are, at the way the club is being run at the moment. I believe that once we sell on some of the surplus midfielders and flog Rose and Dawson to QPR, or whoever 'Arry is managing next season, then move forward with a manager on a long term contract who can sign some decent replacements (2 or 3, not 7 this time) he will begin to shine again.
Conan_the_Spur
Its this simple! Jan is a great player! we have managed, on many levels to make him look bad! along with 90% of our squad (the other 10% are actually bad). Mismanagement and a lack of support on and off the pitch are the cause!
Dublin Hotspur
Agreed Man On, can't believe the excuses being made for Jan, Im nearly wiping away the tears, the poor poor guy, maybe we should just rest him till Tim is sacked, Dawson is sold, Kaboul is moved on, Enic sells up, we move stadium and get a B who he prefers to play with and are playing in the CL!!!
Ossie
Conan_the_Spur, give Vertonghen a £100k per week pay rise, I bet he won't feel fed up then (not that he isnt already highly paid). Suarez was fed up before Liverpool paid him £200k+, same with Rooney.. although at least they are the type of players who give 100% regardless of the circumstances. Guys like Van Persie, Adebayor, Vertonghen have to be in the right environment to do what they are paid to do.
Guyver
Guyver Is Vertonghen NOT the only player to have an article about him?
You could write with the same or similar issues with Adebayor,Lennon,Rose,Walker,Paulinho,Soldado,Sandro,Townsend,Sigurdsson,Chadlii,Kaboul,Dembele,Eriksen.
,br>Is it right to hammer the player who has played more outfield minutes than anyone else ( i believe)?

But i get it,Vertonghen picked & signed himself for Spurs.His body language is terrible not disputing that,but just don`t agree with him being sigalled out.

Write an article on Aaron lennon with his 1 goal & what 2 assists all season?
Write one about Adebayor & his turn up when i feel like it.
Why is Paulinho,Siggy,Rose Kaboul or Dembele any different to Vertonghen?

Only player in this team who you could not write a similar article about is Lloris,& he`s started to feel the pinch himself,written all over him.
Fanny adams
Ossie - no exuces just reasons - what's your opinion of the way the coaches are carrying out their jobs then ?
Highgatespur
Guyver- have I missed something - Vertonghen asked for a pay rise ?
Highgatespur
Fanny ... I agree there are issues with other players but this article is about Verts, therefore he is being supported or criticised by various comments... but not see as a scapegoat.
Geofspurs
Geofspurs by choosing Verts as the sole subject of the article is somewhat scapegoating by Windlespur.
Highgatespur
It's just football.. Players are not being paid huge sums of money to save peoples lives. Just get out there and do the best you can. If anyone of them, (I wouldn't care if it was Messi), needs an excuse not to give it his all, then be gone with him. I am not talking about Jan, I'm talking about players, whoever they may be. (I don't have favourites myself). None are immune to criticism. It doesn't matter how good or bad the boss is, you still do your very best. Surely that's a given in all aspects and walks of life. I cannot possibly have any sympathy for a player who looks indifferent when playing for Spurs. Not every player is going to like or agree with every manager. No doubt there would be some that enjoy playing for Sherwood. Who are we to say this or that player isn't doing his job because of TS etc. I personally don't have a bloody clue. Every single one of them, from the coaching staff to the players, need to buck up and get on with the job they are paid handsomely to do. I would do it for nothing... It's football everyone, they are not foot soldiers being bombarded on the front line... Come on you lazy bar stewards!
MAN ON!
Geofspurs That`s exactly my point,the fact an article is made ONLY about one individual player tells me he is being made a scapegoat.

If an article was wrote about Paulinho i would`ve said the same thing.The trouble with Spurs is you more or less do have to tarnish them all with the same brush,they all seem to be carrying one issue or another.

lloris the exception,
As for player of the year it`s 3 choices,it`s either lloris,or Hugo or that French goalkeeper who plays for Spurs & keeping them in the top 8.
Fanny adams
Hihgate ... Not really. There is no theme apart from his name, so he could be praised as much as criticised, and the comments reflect both. The article was for a debate not a crucifixion. As Fanny said, any of their names could be put forward for discussion and there have been articles on some others.
Geofspurs
Key difference Fanny, is that even though players like Siggy, Lennon, Dawson ect have played poor, (you can even say they are poor) at least they try. Dawson, Siggy, Bentaleb ect are flooded with criticism on how crap they are, but you can't say they don't give 100%. You can't ask for much more from a player than that.

No he hasn't Highgatespur, but in modern football "more money" seems to be the best cure for player unrest.
Guyver
Fanny .. would you really put Lloris before Lennon as POTY?!
Geofspurs
Geof for the love of Spurs I don't know how you do it - 4am!? Your mad lol :) Geof the new manager will have to be an excellent tactician and motivator. LVG I pray for. COYS!
James1
Guyver Fairpost.So then which is the biggest issue we have at Spurs

1-,,-Players who are $hit but give 100%...?

2-,,,- Players who are great but give 0%...?

Or is it maybe a manager who is $hit that gives it 100%?

Is the solution therefore a manger who gets rid of triers but who are $hit,keeps the great ones & get the best out of them.
At what point are Bale,Modric,Berbatov,Vertonghen & lloris obliged to keep carrying these $hit players?
Was it in their contract & were told by Levy in meetings " you will have to carry our $hit players & just accept it".
Lennon is on top dollar,so is Siggy,& dembele,Adebayor is on twice more than all of them,Walker top dollar,Dawson top dollar.
It`s not vertonghens job to carry those who are on the same money just because they try harder.

IMO Vertonghen has nothing to prove as a Spurs player & i don`t blame him for being pi$$ed off with this situation,i`m pi$$ed off myself.

but it`s OK for Dawson & Lennon to be $hit earning £70 grand a week just because they try? For me that`s not enough & for Vertonghen it`s not enough.
Fanny adams
Geofspurs Deep breaths,count to 10 ,,,,,(if i can).OK good nothing got smashed or broken,still breathing.
breath IN
breath out
Fanny adams
James ... I'd prefer the person you're praying to as our manager!! It's 1:30am now ... I'm in training for Monday!!
Geofspurs
Fanny ... I was being naughty with my POTY comment!! :-)
Geofspurs
Okay ... I see you realise that!
Geofspurs
Geofspurs It was a good one,well played.
Still going through the breathing routine,with the odd growl :)
Fanny adams
Jesus, I'm pi$$ed off with the paltry wage I get for working my nuts off. I would be out of a job if I just gave up.... Those players, such as Dawson, are not crap players just because they are not the best players. We are what we are at Spurs. There really is not enough sensational, world class player to go around, otherwise we would have a team full of them.
MAN ON!
Geof, I re read the article upon your reply - It clearly states Jan V from start to finish thus the response...
I would probably ask the same questions about the coaches. Many of the players deserve the questions to be asked of them exposed here... I would much rather hear of these answer then another version of the 'how I wish'.

Don't know about a crucifixion this was to vilify one of the players. Who knows he may be suffering from mental illness!

Come on Geof one has to comment on what is written - no ?
Highgatespur
MAN ON! There is but Spurs keep selling them because they keep wanting out.

Imagine a team with Lloris,Vertonghen,Modric,Bale,V.D.V,Berbatov,Carrick,,,,,
I see an EPL challenge
Fanny adams
Guyver, if he hasn't then lets wait shall we... I think I have been attending and watching different Spurs to you btw. But that's the beauty of a diverse community.
Highgatespur
That would be nice... Where are the rest of the defenders?
MAN ON!
High ... I know, but the heading was 'Jan Vertonghen' so I guess all comments are valid.
Time for bed. But here’s a thought before I go. Fast forward 13 months; picture an open double decker bus coming down Tottenham High Road. In the front are TS and Lennon. Lennon is holding the FA cup and TS is holding the Premiership trophy. Both are smiling. Even you lot are smiling. Night all. :-)
Geofspurs
Geofspurs Hope you fall out of bed or forget to set your alarm clock
Fanny adams
Just re-read the article windlespur and I have to say that I see it to be a fair and objective view on Jan. I mean it's not as if you're laying in to him and calling the guy silly names..... Just an honest and reasonable opinion of him.
MAN ON!
Geof you're being bold there - too bold ... I've dreamt that as well the placard of Azza's face and TS 's face were a prank by Walker... Azza's placard was being held by Lamela whilst TS's was being held by Vertoghen!!! Good night Geof!
Highgatespur
trying this seeing if this works
Highgatespur
Highgatespur
Give up was trying to get rid of the bold - someone got it done recently...
Highgatespur
1-,,-Players who are $hit but give 100%...?

2-,,,- Players who are great but give 0%...?

2 sides of the same coin. Same outcome, both result in $hit performances. Verts isnt paid all that money to be "*****ed off" he's paid to do a "job" if you can even call a 15 year career playing a game of football, a "job". Many people PAY money to take part in their local leagues or tournaments, that's how much of a job football is. How many people would pay money to work in their local supermarket?

You seem to be abandoning your own principles here. You're on a slippery slope once you start justifying the lack of effort shown by any player. Are you suggesting that talented players should only try 100% when they are surrounded by talent? Or when things are going perfect? That doesn't make sense to me. Suarez was phenomenal last season as he helped his club to the dizzying heights of 7th. Similar story with Rooney this year, who is at least trying under difficult circumstances. Why would Verts throw a strop, when we are 6th? He's a good player, but he isnt exactly Gareth Bale level, or even VDV standard in relation to on pitch influence and overall ability.

Highgatespur, what have you been watching?
Guyver
wow, Geofspurs drops a bomb on this site then says "night all" lol.
Guyver
Guyver have been going to all the games at WHL thus far as well as all but two away games ... and you ?

It's hard to work out if the players are giving the effort - it's not always detected by running around, pumping fists and seemingly blowing hot air... I remember Glenn Hoddle being accused of not trying hard enough/lazy in his playing days...
Highgatespur
Guyver NO my point is a great player who gives 0% is the same as a $hit player who gives 100%.

To say Dawson at his best is the same as Vertonghen at his worst.
Lennon at his best is the same as Bale at his worst.

Point is the answer is to get the best out of your great players & get rid of your $hit ones that your great ones are annoyed at getting carried.

Sherwood is a $hit manager that tries his best,Lennon,Walker,Dawson,Rose,Defoe,Siggy are versions.Perfect match,they are on equal par to their own talent.

So therefore Vertonghen needs his perfect match in manager,so does Lloris,Sandro,Dembele,Eriksen & Soldado.
The talent of the manager has to equal the talent of the players he is managing,& vice versa.Liverpool are having this comradery right now
Fanny adams
Is that empty seats I see at the Bernabeu ?
Highgatespur
Well Fanny adams, adebayor needs his perfect match in manager too, therefore Ade was justified with his attitude last season, as AVB was not his perfect match? No, no-one cares about the manager, Ade is on huge amounts of money, he should just try his best regardless. That was the general understanding last season, now it's fan favorite Verts, the rules change? Lack of effort doesn't need all these excuses, not with the money they are on.

Highgatespur, it's just my opinion. His body language seems different to last season and he has made a few comments to the press that give the impression he wasn't fully committed. Some have criticized him for his bad attitude, some are trying to justify it, but most are in agreement that something ain't right. So I guess im seeing what everyone else is seeing.
Guyver
1-0 PSG Get in !!!!
Highgatespur
Guyver Adebayor is a poor example as he has been like that everywhere he has been,& you knew that already.
Fanny adams
It's a competition fanny. Whether a player does it 4 times or once isnt the point. Maybe Verts will do the same at his next club, who knows? The point is, he's doing it now.
Guyver
it's NOT a competition....
Guyver
Guyver, I certainly agree with you there - something isn;t right - and that goes from the top to the bottom I'd say!!
This point was amplified last year, the way EA was treated and no one at the club intervened... EA was criticised mainly of his twittering skills and staying abroad as well as missing planes I thought... anyway

Gareth 1-0

there's something definitely wrong with the structure at the club.
Highgatespur
Guyver So Adebayor does the same thing to Spurs that he has done at his 3 previous clubs & it make no difference? really?

that`s like having a girlfriend who has cheated on her last 3 boyfriends but when she cheats on you act all surprised.

leopards don`t change their spots & all that.
Another expression worthy of Adebayor

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
Fanny adams
Leopards can't change their spots but humans can mature and change their ways. I'm definitely not the same man I was at 21.
MAN ON!
Vertonghen hasn`t got a history so you can give benefit of the doubt.Adebayor has so once bitten twice shy & all that
The circumstances surrounding Spurs tells me Vertonghen deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Fans are feeling no different to Vertonghen himself so how can they criticise him for not fighting when there`s nothing to fight for?

i`ve given up on this season & that`s why i`m backing vertonghen.He`s better than this
Fanny adams
So Adebayor can go 6 years being a (unt but Vertonghen can`t even go 6 weeks?
Fanny adams
No he can't!
MAN ON!
it seems inevitable that he will go! He's just going through the motions, Paulinho too and how phissed off must Llorris be. He will be the biggest loss.
ItalianYiddo
MAN ON! Who has done more for Tottenham Hotspurs football club this season & last included...

Lennon
Adebayor
Walker
Rose
Sigurdsson
Dawson?
Kaboul?
Fanny adams
Or Vertonghen?
Fanny adams
Before the Southampton away game I posted that the worst thing that could happen to our club was a win, it would give Levy encouragement to give Dimmo the job. I was slated for being anti Spurs, unfortunately I wasn't wrong, the damage caused in a few months is going to take years to repair.
ItalianYiddo
Did I miss the article on Townsend?..;)...we should however really look at our homegrown contingent, they are quite poor and will be a massive drag unless we start changing them out quickly....
shedboy2
IY- the eye has been taken off the ball so to speak...our homegrown aren't good enough, we still need a LB, reserve Keeper and in the meantime we appoint the monkey to organ grinder...this needs swift surgery or we will indeed be years behind and once you fall back into the pack there is no guarantee of ever coming out again...
shedboy2
Shedboy, really sad, for the first time in 15 years I am seriously contemplating not renewing my season ticket, we are rudderless, apathy is setting in.
ItalianYiddo
shedboy2 the home grown seem to be the bees knees up until 18 - when it sees to be nosedive as the loans increase... 18-22 development so negligible it's unbelievable.

IY - hold tight - they need the support now - times are tough - reckon 180 degree turn next season with the right management change - another announcement tomorrow please!!! Someone or something is keeping TS quiet!!
Highgatespur
Highgate, not sure I can bare another season with Dimmo in charge. We need a statement from Levy before the renewal deadline.
ItalianYiddo
When I watch Verts I see a pi$$ed off player but not one who is not trying. He has become more vocal in the last 8 games or so and that’s because the whole defence and in fact the whole team has been so disorganised. He is trying to organise the back4 and I have seen him arguing/discussing with Dawson and Kaboul how to do it and they have third rate players (Naughton and Rose) alongside them, I can only assume Sherwood has told them they are experienced defenders, go out and do it. I also remember the away game at St Marys and although a decent performance, you could see the disorganisation starting then. We appointed a total prat as a manager, and look no further than the one that appointed him
matt hoten
IY - a new man in charge is the only way !!! Not even contemplating any other alternative..1 man 1 change 1Spurs!!!! Keep tight IY... I am...
Highgatespur
Fanny adams, fair enough, if that's the position you take. I hope to see no more preaching from you about how much players earn and fans being taken for mugs, if you insist on sticking up for a players right to throw a strop, whenever he feels his standards aren't being met, despite being paid obscene amounts of money.
Guyver
matt hoten - I do agree with you word for word but the last bit... I thought one of the best performance was at Soton... Did you see the brush off from Rose to Verts v soton at WHL ? The disorganisation was visible with AVB somewhat but it has turned to shambolic nature of mammoth proportions....
Highgatespur
WOW what a goal 3-1 PSG!!! Pastore....
Highgatespur
That goal was similar to a goal Lamela scored for Roma last season.
Guyver
Guyver I was just about to add that - I could see Lamela scoring for us that way one day!!!
Highgatespur
Listening to Hoddle speaking on Sky and listening to Sherwood's pre and post match interviews and you think what a cock up Daniel.
ItalianYiddo
Interviewer: Who was at faultbr> Borinho: Don't ask that I can't do that I do that inside inside

Hope that was a learning point while sitting high up in the stands...
Highgatespur
IY: Every single time .... Every single ****** time!!!!
Highgatespur
Oh what put down on Jamie by Glenn !!! Classic!!!
Highgatespur
vertonghen chose spurs, he was so adamant that he only wanted to come here it meant we got him at a rather low price. he was sold on whatever he was told, and I bet it was a pretty picture of an ambitious upward moving club securing CL and pushing forward under an exciting coach in AVB etc... I doubt it involved playing out of position - the reason he wasn't interested in arsenal, and I doubt it involved being managed by tim sherwood. I don't think one leaves Ajax and de boer to work with sherwood. these are his prime years, he invested heavily in spurs, it is no doubt beginning to look like a pretty bad decision. He has not sulked like berbatov, refused to play like adebayor. His heart is no longer in it, that is for sure, but can you really blame him for being disillusioned? lining up next to dawson and rose (if he is lucky and rose is fit so that he isn't playing LB) having listened to Tim's go out and get them speech he must be thinking how the ***** did I end up in this situation.
Guernman
Guernman - agree - but some might say it's stretching the point when you say play alongside Rose - when Rose is up that wing as the soon as the whistle blows!!!! LOL
Highgatespur
HGHMagic Don't come back until you finish your meal, what you having Pastore?
spu 4 life
Fanny adams. I've not been talking about Jan at all. I'm talking about all or any players attitudes in general.
MAN ON!
Good one spu!!
Highgatespur
thanks Man On - glad you re-read and despite some accusations, it is exactly that - a discussion article,. thought that was what this site was for. sadly Jan encapsulates our current woes, bad attitude, bad performances and no heart - from a player we all know was excellent last year. e is not alone and we need a fix and quick, but still can't give him any excuses - or the others.
Windlespur
Highgate I was actually disappointed with Saints at their place and didn't rate their manager until I realized what they were like a year earlier and how far he has taken them. They get deservedly a lot of praise for their young England stars but there overall squad is a bit short on quality. Adebuyor won the game for us and I did say it was a decent performance
matt hoten
High gate - scapegoat - please re-read the article. I don't know myself, want him to stay and know he can be good, but fed up with his attitude and bad performances. And no, players like Lennon do not warrant any debate, neither does Tim - they can just go. Simple.
Windlespur
matt holden really liked the soldado cross fro Adebayor goal.... and AE dance in front of the bemused ref!!!

Squad's pretty weak - getting good write ups though... wonder how they will do second time around after being so high profiled this year?
Highgatespur
Highgate I enjoyed "Theres only one Harry Redknapp" chant, must have gone down well with them
matt hoten
Windlespur I did re-read and it does read like a scapegoating - nevertheless it got the discussion going. I do wonder, really wonder, what the coaches think their roles are ... besides standing statuesque or like a livewire on match days. There seems to be a chronic problem at the club....
Highgatespur
matt holden - I didn't join in then - but loved their comeback on it "we want our money back" and our applause after!! Classic!
Highgatespur
I know someone at the club well. Whatever his faults, avb turned up at 7am and in his office planning everything - caterers, pitch heights, sizes, coaches etc. players respected that. Apparently Tim has never been in office, turns up just after 9 and there is no preparation. Harry ensue, so understand Joan's frustrations, just not the unprofessional ism. That is what our coaches do not do sadly high gate.
Windlespur
Yup Windlespur heard that as well - AVB was almost too professional for some> The unpreparedness really shows up - that's what made the players not connect with the man in charge.... it's so obvious at the games...
Highgatespur
Guernman, are you from southgate? used to know a fella back in the day who could quern before his time… ladies used to love it! spurs head too!!
Dublin Hotspur
Morning. Just checked in and noticed that it all went bold on my departure last night! It wasn’t my fault. It was TS! Honestly, TS was to blame! Or .... sorry guys, my bad!
Geofspurs
No one (esp Jan) should be sold this year until we get the new gaffer in to assess the squad. keep this squad and add a GK, LB and CB and maybe one 5hit fast attacker and we are sorted.
neymar
G'd morning Geof, No problem - did make it a change someone else going bold rather than the usual, me!!!
Highgatespur
Chav fans crying on vital Chelsea after loss to PSG, a lot of them saying willian is 5hit and we dodged a bullet, here's one of the comments: "jose favoritism cost us the game....why the hell rami was on the field...he is a disater in the waiting....why sub schrulle...what a waste of 32 million is willian....i think.spuds dodge the bullet...the guy is not worth 10 million also...at chelsea under jose favoritsm at its best..some.people say chech has 4 or 5 good season in him....good that they are not in the chelsea board...next season TC has to be our no 1 goalkeeper...give chech a cheque and say your time is over..."
neymar
Hi Highgate ... Wonder what today will bring in the great Spurs story?! Well, I'm off up the highway on my chosen mode of transport (another passion) for a ride and then I'll update my fishing tackle and hit the beach this afternoon/evening. I like a stress-free day!!
Geofspurs
disgrace to the club
123spurs
Lennon Adebayor Walker Rose Sigurdsson Dawson? Kaboul?
verts?

paulinho?
123spurs
Sounds like a plan Geof..hope you enjoy the day. I've taken half day today and I'm meeting with my younger brother for a few drinks by the Thames. Been a longtime. Hope the weather holds out. Can't believe he's a Spam lol. COYS!
James1
Geof, well you what news I'm hoping to hear ... your plan just sounds great... what is the favoured mode of transport ? Love driving myself! Well mate hope you had a great day...
Highgatespur
*know after you!!
Highgatespur
High ... Kawasaki 900cc cruiser!
Geofspurs
Oh WOW - brave man!!!
Highgatespur
Italian Yiddo, I can understand your dilema, regarding the renewal of ypu season ticket. Another season of Sherwood is simply unthinkable, and if it happens it will only confirm what many of us have suspected for some 14 years, our chairman is a competent bean counter, but a football idiot.
Frank
How much is a players mindset responsible for his form? I would suggest its massive. Jan doesn't look like he is enjoying his football and hasn't all season. Do we blame tactics, players, manager or simply that he isn't focused on his game for whatever reason. If his problems are attitude/motivation, could he suddenly come alive next season with the right managerial appointment?
oxfordspur
 

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