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Proven Winner over Proven Prem?

Proven Winner over Proven Prem?

If we are still assuming it is a two horse race between De Boer and Pochettino, what are the biggest advantages of one over the other?

For me it is always impossible to truly judge any manager until he has had time in the job and the opportunity to stamp his ideas and authority onto the players and club as a whole. This of course makes any discussion purely hypothetical, however I do feel that we see two obvious advantages between the two potential managers, over their rival.

Firstly there is the obvious consideration that Pochettino has already settled in England and of course the Premiership, which cannot be underestimated. I must confess to thinking Southampton mad to sack a good manager and employ someone with what appeared to be a very undistinguished track record in management and who had no Prem experience and hardly spoke a word of English. How wrong I was…

Pochettino has proved the doubters wrong and then some! He has developed the playing style, to make his side hard to beat, whilst also very easy on the eye. Can you imagine a Tottenham side that pressed so hard when not in possession, but retained and perhaps improved their possession game? You would like to think that Spurs have better players, greater financial muscle and ability to lure better players, not to mention superb facilities. should we expect This guy to make us a better side and improve our position?

The big question mark with Pochettino is that he has no history of winning or even competing for trophies. He has spent his managerial time either fighting relegation or in mid-table positions of relative comfort. Does this still ask a question over his ability to instil a winning mentality, whilst also how is he with player egos and reputations? The higher the ladder you climb, the greater pressure and expectation. Is he up to this?

Winning is something Frank De Boer has lived with as a player and latterly as a manager. 15 Player and 5 managerial winners trophies plus 112 international caps (including a World Cup final) would indicate that this guy is a winner and is at ease with pressure and working and dealing with big names and ego`s. Of course some will argue that AVB won trophies, but did he have the career of De Boer or the success in management over the same period. The same also applies to Juande Ramos.

Is there a downside to De Boer that he has no Premiership experience? He has done well against good English teams in the CL with a side that isn`t on the same financial planet and like Pochettino, looks to play attacking football, but also with a good structure. Having no Prem experience is greatly eased by his perfect English and no doubt he would look at having a coaching staff with Prem knowledge and experience to ease his transition. Dennis Bergkamp might be too Arsenal for Spurs, but what of someone like Bryan Roy, who played for Forest in the mid 90`s?

Does a proven history of being a winner or having experience in the league really offer either a major advantage? Personally I think either are decent shouts and it might come down to the interview and how badly they actually want the job...



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:OxfordSpur
Date:Tuesday May 20 2014
Time: 9:21AM

Comments

0
nooooo to Pochettino
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 09:28:00
0
the payers he bought for southhampton where poor buys
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 09:29:00
0
stephenspurs11210- Pochettino must be some manager to do so well with the poor players he bought.
camper
20/05/2014 09:35:00
0
I think the Premiership experienced argument is somewhat undermined by pointing out that Poch achieved relative success with no previous Prem experience. On paper, De Boer is the stand-out candidate offering playing experience at the highest levels, successful domestic management in winning the League 4 times in a row, and CL experience finishing 3rd in last seasons' group behind Barcelona and Milan by 1 point after Milan did a Mourinho, 10-man park the bus performance. Plus he has the education of the Ajax club structure which he can bring to us. Poch on the other hand is an unknown in many respects. People praise his Southampton team for style but the second half of the season managers had worked it out and he had a long barren spell. Was it lack of flexibility in tactics ie: no plan B or was he hit with injuries to key players I don't know. He may well make a great manager for us but for me the evidence for thinking so doesn't stack-up against De Boer's CV.
Harry-Kari
20/05/2014 09:35:00
0
the players that where already there was there best players he didn't buy Adam Lallana Jay Rodriguez Luke Shaw Rickie Lambert
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 09:41:00
0
buy
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 09:43:00
0
Pablo Osvaldo Lovren Wanyama was who he bough don't c people rushing to but them
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 09:43:00
0
i mentioned it in another article.

FDB is the man to take us forward. He is a football man with great experience in bringing players through the youth academies in Holland.

Bring Jordie Classe and the big CB from Ajax with you...
Yidmarks
20/05/2014 09:46:00
0
Ashley Cole to leave Chelsea... LB anyone?
Yidmarks
20/05/2014 09:49:00
0
stephenspurs Mourinho and Wenger spent 5X more than him and finished in the same places as last season... We spent 107 Million and finished off worse... The facts show he took a team that finished 14th to 8th with significantly changing the team to attack. Osvaldo and Wanyama are also in their first seasons much the same as our 7 players.
Mix26
20/05/2014 10:03:00
0
I live in Southampton these days and have watched Saints games quite a bit over past 18 months. Pochettino has done very well in his time there so far. Wanyama and Lovren have not been bad buys and remember this was their first season in PL. In fact they have done better than most of our magnificent 7!
Metal Spurs
20/05/2014 10:04:00
0
Both would probably bring similar styles to the club and get similar results. FDB is the bigger name because of his history, both would be a gamble, I would be happy with either.
Kong
20/05/2014 10:05:00
0
most people are siding with fdb because they know its really a 2 horse race and he is seen as more appealing to pochettino.
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:05:00
0
Both strike me as excellent candidates and Levy would be hard pressed to choose. Safe bet is FDB as we all know but MP could just do a BR for us. My money would be on Levy going with FDB.
Mix26
20/05/2014 10:06:00
0
Yidmarks - Yes to FdB and yes to Cashley Cole too.
SpuriousLife
20/05/2014 10:07:00
0
if we are looking at fdb than why not murat yakin or neil lennon?as for lovren i think he is agood player who id be happy to have at spurs
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:10:00
0
cashley cole is heading to the bindippers.remember you heard it here first
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:12:00
0
mix26 but still couldn't beat a tim Sherwood team tut tut southamton had the good players there already harry red took Tottenham from bottom to 4 what did that prove
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:20:00
0
I would be happy with either. Two horse race winner by a nose. If true I do not like FDB campaigning for the job and saying he had the chance to join Liverpool. Why? Is the implication that he would have achieved as much or more than Brendan Rodgers. Brendan Rodger who only managed in England to his great disadvantage.
camper
20/05/2014 10:20:00
0
Pochettino NO NO NO NO. This would be an utter disaster. What has he done?? Nothing at Espanyol and nothing at Southampton. All the good southampton kids were already there and as for buying, well Osvaldo and Rameires have hardly worked out have they. If we get him, we can wave goodbye to being a serious football club.
jimmy-yid
20/05/2014 10:21:00
0
noooo to Pochettino
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:23:00
0
jimmy yid thank u took the words out my mouth
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:24:00
0
it must be fdb yes poch has had a good season he hasnt won a thing and when some of his top players leave in the transfer window i think he will find next season alot harder if he succeeds next year then us big clubs will take him more seriously but of course by then hopefully fdb will be leading us out in the cl coys
tottspur
20/05/2014 10:24:00
0
fdb is saying some weird stuff,i wouldnt be too happy with the guy if i was an ajax supporter
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:26:00
0
Pochettino took over Southampton when 3 points above relegation. He did not buy Ramirez, that was Adkins. He deserves credit for what he has done at Southampton. Both Pochettino and FDB bring the same risks, if we won;t a proven winner then go for a bigger manager who has been there and done it in different leagues.
Kong
20/05/2014 10:28:00
0
kong-theirs absolutely nothing to suggest nigel adkins would not have done what poch is doing now.southampton were on an upwards curve.i remember the hoo haa when he was sacked
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:31:00
0
Whats he saying Tarkan? It's all Dutch to me?
Slurms McKenzie
20/05/2014 10:34:00
0
tarkan I agree
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:38:00
0
Tarkan, how were southampton on a upward curve, they won 5 out of 22 games before Adkins got sacked. That is more like a downward curve, yes they were doing well for a promoted team but don't make out that they were good before Pochettino took over. There is nothing to suggest that Adkins would have done what Pochettino has done.
Kong
20/05/2014 10:39:00
0
stephenspurs --- Don’t forget the players he bought were restricted in choice due to a smaller budget! Hopefully this would not be as restrictive with Spurs. And as camper said ... he did pretty well with those ‘poor’ players!
Geofspurs
20/05/2014 10:42:00
0
I think his been really lucky at Southampton. Is he worth the risk? It's a 50/50. I heard his a good English speaker too.
HolteEnd89
20/05/2014 10:43:00
0
kong any one going in there would prob given them a lift that what a new manager does
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:43:00
0
I agree Kong. Saints fans were somewhat dismayed when Adkins got the tin tack, but most of that was because they really liked Adkins for what he had achieved in previous seasons. Saints may have survived relegation with Adkins but I doubt they would have pushed on.
Metal Spurs
20/05/2014 10:43:00
0
don't think Tottenham should take a chance on that do u ???
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:44:00
0
A new manager twice this season didn't help Fulham did it?! Every team is different but of course.
Metal Spurs
20/05/2014 10:45:00
0
I don’t get everyone’s obsession with historic managerial achievements. If any manager appears to have good potential for the future, well, ... that’s the direction I want to travel in! And, from the way Southampton plays, I’d say their manager has a lot of potential.
Geofspurs
20/05/2014 10:46:00
0
southampton were never getting relegated.they were playing good stuff and the chairman was waiting for the first blip of the season to get rid.than after that they went on a mad spending spree.many observers predicted where they have finished as being par of the course
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:47:00
0
well lets c I no who the Pochettino lovers are and I will remind u all
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:48:00
0
stephenspurs1210, yes he gave them a lift when he arrived but he carried it on so it wasn't a honeymoon period as they say. If we are going to be comparing him to FDB then there is no difference, both would be exactly the same gamble, yes FDB has won more things so he has that in his favour.
Kong
20/05/2014 10:48:00
0
Metal ... Thanks for that info, Mate.
Geofspurs
20/05/2014 10:49:00
0
Dan has not got it right yet over the years so how is it going to be any differant this time round.he would even make alex f a bad manager over the first season if he was to show up at the spurs.needs to be a lukey guy for starters and bigger than the players about 7 ft h 4 ft wide and stand in front of goal during games.qinner needed sick of the losers every other year.coys
bazdog
20/05/2014 10:50:00
0
Why so anti Pochettino. Was the same attitude taken to Brendan Rodgers when he might have replaced Harry Redknapp. Lets us stick to Managerial Ability. Guillem Balague Spanish football expert on Sky sport and Glen Hoddle are two who rate Pochettino- but what do they know.
camper
20/05/2014 10:50:00
0
People seem pretty split on this one. I don’t think Poch is the right guy at all but who knows. FDB is another one that could go either way. Unless the manager really is a top top draw manager there will always be an element of risk, some are just riskier than others. We seriously missed the boat with LVG, saying all the right things and has immediately put the confidence back into Man u fans and players. Pochettino won’t do that. Im not sure who will that is out there and available. I think Mancini could do well, but could he work with DL? What about Martino? Will be looking for a job now surely. I can see this dragging out for weeks and weeks. Always the same with good old spurs.
hudderspur
20/05/2014 10:51:00
0
Winner needed
bazdog
20/05/2014 10:52:00
0
his interpreter doing all the press interviews then zzzzzzzzz
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 10:52:00
0
It is not Pochettino lovers stepenspurs but not writing him off and giving him credit when due.
Kong
20/05/2014 10:52:00
0
nigel adkins back to back promotions.
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:53:00
0
tottspur ... Of course he will find it harder if he loses his best players. Who Wouldn’t? Look at us since losing Modric and Bale!
Geofspurs
20/05/2014 10:53:00
0
I think it's hard to assess MoPo's track record...he's not spent long enough at a club to show he can buy and introduce players into a team, lose his better players and still maintain or improve results...(didn't he leave Espanyol as a relegation battlers?) FdB has done all of that whilst winning 4 consecutive titles..how much will lack of PL experience trouble him? hard to tell...you would think any coach would know that teams set up all kinds of ways in the PL and you have to earn the right to play...any manager is a risk...but for me we need a guy who can work without money as we haven't spent any new money in 4 years and don't look likely to with the stadium taking our resources....FDb can do that add gravitas, language skills and I think he's the best we can get....on our budget!
shedboy2
20/05/2014 10:53:00
0
Tarkan, Southampton improved is what you are saying so Pochettino can take some credit for that.
Kong
20/05/2014 10:54:00
0
I keep hearing that Southampton already had the talent pre Pochettino. My question, why did they finish 14th then?. It has said been said numerous times that Poch has improved many of the players, he aided their develoment, end result, league ascendancy.
Cider spurs
20/05/2014 10:57:00
0
shedboy-to be fair if roles were reversed and poch was ajax manager i see him having the same success.because all that is required is ahalf decent manager which pochettino is
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 10:58:00
0
It’s all a risk! We, of all clubs, know that. Whoever comes in will be THFC and needs our full support. I hope everyone exercises some patience and gives the poor guy TIME ... whoever it is.
Geofspurs
20/05/2014 10:59:00
0
That is right Cider, if Pochettino comes to us and does well will people be saying it is not him but because the players were here already. The manager makes all the difference like you say.
Kong
20/05/2014 11:01:00
0
cider spurs they had the talent there did they not get promoted with them players
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 11:01:00
0
tarkan - perhaps...but don't underestimate 4 consecutive titles whilst losing your better players...if it were so easy there'd be lots of Dutch managers that had done it...in fact only 1 has more - Guus Hiddinck...FdB has equaled that of LvG....I think it fair to say he's in good, rarefied company there!
shedboy2
20/05/2014 11:03:00
0
Good article OX ... I don’t care if the new manager is a proven winner, or not ... I’d much prefer that he proves to BE a winner!
Geofspurs
20/05/2014 11:03:00
0
I don't know how anyone can make a case for Pochettino over Frank De Boer. One has won nothing, the other has won 4 league titles. I don't care if it is in the Dutch league. One is a proven winner, from the time he started playing the game. One has vast international experience, being one of the most capped players for his country. One has been through the best footballing school in the world, and brought up playing and learning the Ajax school of football. One has played under world class managers like Van Gaal, who we all wanted. Played for Barcalona with players like Ronaldo (original and best), Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, etc. He has been amongst the biggest ego's in the world. He has managed young talent, given young talent a chance and more importantly, showed he can help develop young players. There is no argument against FDB. The people who talk about no prem experience, Mourinho, Wenger, Ancelotti, Ranieri, Pellegrini, Houllier, Benitez and Alex Ferguson had never managed in the Premiership (Div 1) before they took the job and they all did OK. So Mr Levy, given the choice or the fact that it is a no brainer, who will he choose. No doubt, the cheapest option. Welcome Mr Pochettino, take your seat for the next 18-22 months, when we will start all over again.
vicspur
20/05/2014 11:03:00
0
FdB would also have two players in the 1st team that he knows/know him very well and can get the best out of Eriksen and Verts.....and don't forget we don't spend money!...Rafa, Mancini et al will all need a big budget...we don't have one!
shedboy2
20/05/2014 11:07:00
0
vicspur spot on mate
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 11:08:00
0
its a tough call between the 2
tarkan mardinCOYS
20/05/2014 11:10:00
0
its not a tough call its easy no Pochettino
stephenspurs1210
20/05/2014 11:14:00
0
stephen...Having the talent and getting the best out of them are two different things. 14th or 8th, which points to progress?.
Cider spurs
20/05/2014 11:24:00
0
Ronald De Boer told TalkSPORT this morning that THFC have not contacted FDB about the managerial vacancy. Whether that is true or not who knows.
Kong
20/05/2014 11:26:00
0
I'd go for Poch right up to Xmas and, after being thrashed by the top 4, get De Boer in to clean up the mess. Sack FDB at the end of the season for failing to qualify for the CL, wait a couple of weeks, just to wind up the supporters, then Levy to announce that Sherwood is to return, a new man. Happy days.......
MAN ON!
20/05/2014 11:30:00
0
Well talk is that the Benfica boss Jorge Jesus is now in the frame, also Yaya Toure is unhappy at Man City. Go get FDB, Cashley and Yaya a decent striker and we are good to go next year. COYS
STEVEYNIX
20/05/2014 11:31:00
0
We tend to get managers on previous form and then when he comes to Spurs the past form disappears ... only HR has improved his standing while in post at the club....
Highgatespur
20/05/2014 11:32:00
0
Kong, heard that interview - a bit weird ... in a way he was completely retracting what he said about a month ago.... quiet word in his ear... this is getting way tedious... just it sorted Levy...
Highgatespur
20/05/2014 11:34:00
0
No to Pochettino,,,Pablo Osvaldo ?
Fanny adams
20/05/2014 11:34:00
0
Also being linked to Sead Kolasinac a 20 yr old left back at Schalke who has been called up to Bosnia and Hertz full squad and linked to Manure if they dont get Shaw. I know this one is off topic but thought I would drop it in. :)
STEVEYNIX
20/05/2014 11:35:00
0
Good post vicspur. As much as many of us want FdB and (if the rumours are true) as much as he would apparently jump at the chance to manage us, Levy continues to drag his heels. It's for reasons like this that I decided not to renew my season ticket last week. It will probably end up being Pochettino over FdB. Forget everything about PL experience, trophies etc. and put yourself in the shoes of our 'world class' squad. How would you feel if you walk in the first day of training after the debacle of AVB and Sherwood and see Pochettino standing there as your new manager? Now the same scenario and you walk in to see FdB standing there. It's a no brainer for me.
SpuriousLife
20/05/2014 11:36:00
0
Oh, and sell Eriksen to Real for 80 million, bring in 6 or 7 new foreign players with the ready cash, watch them fail and start it all over again, ad infinitum, baby!
MAN ON!
20/05/2014 11:36:00
0
I agree with Geofspurs, I really would like a manager who will be a winner for Spurs!!!!
Highgatespur
20/05/2014 11:37:00
0
Whilst I don't believe there is much between them. Would we be looking at FDB if it were not for his exploits with Ajax. It is on that basis we are tempted. Why is it then that Ronald Koeman does not excite as much?. He's worked in numerous European leagues.

Ajax;
Eredivisie (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
KNVB Cup: 2001–02
Johan Cruijff Shield: 2002

Benfica
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2005

PSV
Eredivisie: 2006–07

Valencia
Copa del Rey: 2007–08

AZ Alkmaar
Johan Cruijff Shield: 2009

Whilst I have no problem with FDB, think he would be good, how hard is it to win in Holland?, can this transfer to the Prem. What is it about FDB, Koeman only having won 1 title less in Holland but achieved some success elsewhere.
Cider spurs
20/05/2014 11:37:00
0
Yaya unhappy? The PL title not good enough for him!?
MAN ON!
20/05/2014 11:37:00
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