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Proven Winner over Proven Prem?

If we are still assuming it is a two horse race between De Boer and Pochettino, what are the biggest advantages of one over the other?

For me it is always impossible to truly judge any manager until he has had time in the job and the opportunity to stamp his ideas and authority onto the players and club as a whole. This of course makes any discussion purely hypothetical, however I do feel that we see two obvious advantages between the two potential managers, over their rival.

Firstly there is the obvious consideration that Pochettino has already settled in England and of course the Premiership, which cannot be underestimated. I must confess to thinking Southampton mad to sack a good manager and employ someone with what appeared to be a very undistinguished track record in management and who had no Prem experience and hardly spoke a word of English. How wrong I was…

Pochettino has proved the doubters wrong and then some! He has developed the playing style, to make his side hard to beat, whilst also very easy on the eye. Can you imagine a Tottenham side that pressed so hard when not in possession, but retained and perhaps improved their possession game? You would like to think that Spurs have better players, greater financial muscle and ability to lure better players, not to mention superb facilities. should we expect This guy to make us a better side and improve our position?

The big question mark with Pochettino is that he has no history of winning or even competing for trophies. He has spent his managerial time either fighting relegation or in mid-table positions of relative comfort. Does this still ask a question over his ability to instil a winning mentality, whilst also how is he with player egos and reputations? The higher the ladder you climb, the greater pressure and expectation. Is he up to this?

Winning is something Frank De Boer has lived with as a player and latterly as a manager. 15 Player and 5 managerial winners trophies plus 112 international caps (including a World Cup final) would indicate that this guy is a winner and is at ease with pressure and working and dealing with big names and ego`s. Of course some will argue that AVB won trophies, but did he have the career of De Boer or the success in management over the same period. The same also applies to Juande Ramos.

Is there a downside to De Boer that he has no Premiership experience? He has done well against good English teams in the CL with a side that isn`t on the same financial planet and like Pochettino, looks to play attacking football, but also with a good structure. Having no Prem experience is greatly eased by his perfect English and no doubt he would look at having a coaching staff with Prem knowledge and experience to ease his transition. Dennis Bergkamp might be too Arsenal for Spurs, but what of someone like Bryan Roy, who played for Forest in the mid 90`s?

Does a proven history of being a winner or having experience in the league really offer either a major advantage? Personally I think either are decent shouts and it might come down to the interview and how badly they actually want the job...




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday May 20 2014

Time: 9:21AM

Your Comments

nooooo to Pochettino
stephenspurs1210
the payers he bought for southhampton where poor buys
stephenspurs1210
stephenspurs11210- Pochettino must be some manager to do so well with the poor players he bought.
camper
I think the Premiership experienced argument is somewhat undermined by pointing out that Poch achieved relative success with no previous Prem experience. On paper, De Boer is the stand-out candidate offering playing experience at the highest levels, successful domestic management in winning the League 4 times in a row, and CL experience finishing 3rd in last seasons' group behind Barcelona and Milan by 1 point after Milan did a Mourinho, 10-man park the bus performance. Plus he has the education of the Ajax club structure which he can bring to us. Poch on the other hand is an unknown in many respects. People praise his Southampton team for style but the second half of the season managers had worked it out and he had a long barren spell. Was it lack of flexibility in tactics ie: no plan B or was he hit with injuries to key players I don't know. He may well make a great manager for us but for me the evidence for thinking so doesn't stack-up against De Boer's CV.
Harry-Kari
the players that where already there was there best players he didn't buy Adam Lallana Jay Rodriguez Luke Shaw Rickie Lambert
stephenspurs1210
buy
stephenspurs1210
Pablo Osvaldo Lovren Wanyama was who he bough don't c people rushing to but them
stephenspurs1210
i mentioned it in another article.

FDB is the man to take us forward. He is a football man with great experience in bringing players through the youth academies in Holland.

Bring Jordie Classe and the big CB from Ajax with you...
Yidmarks
Ashley Cole to leave Chelsea... LB anyone?
Yidmarks
stephenspurs Mourinho and Wenger spent 5X more than him and finished in the same places as last season... We spent 107 Million and finished off worse... The facts show he took a team that finished 14th to 8th with significantly changing the team to attack. Osvaldo and Wanyama are also in their first seasons much the same as our 7 players.
Mix26
I live in Southampton these days and have watched Saints games quite a bit over past 18 months. Pochettino has done very well in his time there so far. Wanyama and Lovren have not been bad buys and remember this was their first season in PL. In fact they have done better than most of our magnificent 7!
Metal Spurs
Both would probably bring similar styles to the club and get similar results. FDB is the bigger name because of his history, both would be a gamble, I would be happy with either.
Kong
most people are siding with fdb because they know its really a 2 horse race and he is seen as more appealing to pochettino.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Both strike me as excellent candidates and Levy would be hard pressed to choose. Safe bet is FDB as we all know but MP could just do a BR for us. My money would be on Levy going with FDB.
Mix26
Yidmarks - Yes to FdB and yes to Cashley Cole too.
SpuriousLife
if we are looking at fdb than why not murat yakin or neil lennon?as for lovren i think he is agood player who id be happy to have at spurs
tarkan mardinCOYS
cashley cole is heading to the bindippers.remember you heard it here first
tarkan mardinCOYS
I would be happy with either. Two horse race winner by a nose. If true I do not like FDB campaigning for the job and saying he had the chance to join Liverpool. Why? Is the implication that he would have achieved as much or more than Brendan Rodgers. Brendan Rodger who only managed in England to his great disadvantage.
camper
mix26 but still couldn't beat a tim Sherwood team tut tut southamton had the good players there already harry red took Tottenham from bottom to 4 what did that prove
stephenspurs1210
Pochettino NO NO NO NO. This would be an utter disaster. What has he done?? Nothing at Espanyol and nothing at Southampton. All the good southampton kids were already there and as for buying, well Osvaldo and Rameires have hardly worked out have they. If we get him, we can wave goodbye to being a serious football club.
jimmy-yid
noooo to Pochettino
stephenspurs1210
jimmy yid thank u took the words out my mouth
stephenspurs1210
it must be fdb yes poch has had a good season he hasnt won a thing and when some of his top players leave in the transfer window i think he will find next season alot harder if he succeeds next year then us big clubs will take him more seriously but of course by then hopefully fdb will be leading us out in the cl coys
tottspur
fdb is saying some weird stuff,i wouldnt be too happy with the guy if i was an ajax supporter
tarkan mardinCOYS
Pochettino took over Southampton when 3 points above relegation. He did not buy Ramirez, that was Adkins. He deserves credit for what he has done at Southampton. Both Pochettino and FDB bring the same risks, if we won;t a proven winner then go for a bigger manager who has been there and done it in different leagues.
Kong
kong-theirs absolutely nothing to suggest nigel adkins would not have done what poch is doing now.southampton were on an upwards curve.i remember the hoo haa when he was sacked
tarkan mardinCOYS
Whats he saying Tarkan? It's all Dutch to me?
Slurms McKenzie
tarkan I agree
stephenspurs1210
Tarkan, how were southampton on a upward curve, they won 5 out of 22 games before Adkins got sacked. That is more like a downward curve, yes they were doing well for a promoted team but don't make out that they were good before Pochettino took over. There is nothing to suggest that Adkins would have done what Pochettino has done.
Kong
stephenspurs --- Don’t forget the players he bought were restricted in choice due to a smaller budget! Hopefully this would not be as restrictive with Spurs. And as camper said ... he did pretty well with those ‘poor’ players!
Geofspurs
I think his been really lucky at Southampton. Is he worth the risk? It's a 50/50. I heard his a good English speaker too.
HolteEnd89
I agree Kong. Saints fans were somewhat dismayed when Adkins got the tin tack, but most of that was because they really liked Adkins for what he had achieved in previous seasons. Saints may have survived relegation with Adkins but I doubt they would have pushed on.
Metal Spurs
kong any one going in there would prob given them a lift that what a new manager does
stephenspurs1210
don't think Tottenham should take a chance on that do u ???
stephenspurs1210
A new manager twice this season didn't help Fulham did it?! Every team is different but of course.
Metal Spurs
I don’t get everyone’s obsession with historic managerial achievements. If any manager appears to have good potential for the future, well, ... that’s the direction I want to travel in! And, from the way Southampton plays, I’d say their manager has a lot of potential.
Geofspurs
southampton were never getting relegated.they were playing good stuff and the chairman was waiting for the first blip of the season to get rid.than after that they went on a mad spending spree.many observers predicted where they have finished as being par of the course
tarkan mardinCOYS
well lets c I no who the Pochettino lovers are and I will remind u all
stephenspurs1210
stephenspurs1210, yes he gave them a lift when he arrived but he carried it on so it wasn't a honeymoon period as they say. If we are going to be comparing him to FDB then there is no difference, both would be exactly the same gamble, yes FDB has won more things so he has that in his favour.
Kong
Metal ... Thanks for that info, Mate.
Geofspurs
Dan has not got it right yet over the years so how is it going to be any differant this time round.he would even make alex f a bad manager over the first season if he was to show up at the spurs.needs to be a lukey guy for starters and bigger than the players about 7 ft h 4 ft wide and stand in front of goal during games.qinner needed sick of the losers every other year.coys
bazdog
Why so anti Pochettino. Was the same attitude taken to Brendan Rodgers when he might have replaced Harry Redknapp. Lets us stick to Managerial Ability. Guillem Balague Spanish football expert on Sky sport and Glen Hoddle are two who rate Pochettino- but what do they know.
camper
People seem pretty split on this one. I don’t think Poch is the right guy at all but who knows. FDB is another one that could go either way. Unless the manager really is a top top draw manager there will always be an element of risk, some are just riskier than others. We seriously missed the boat with LVG, saying all the right things and has immediately put the confidence back into Man u fans and players. Pochettino won’t do that. Im not sure who will that is out there and available. I think Mancini could do well, but could he work with DL? What about Martino? Will be looking for a job now surely. I can see this dragging out for weeks and weeks. Always the same with good old spurs.
hudderspur
Winner needed
bazdog
his interpreter doing all the press interviews then zzzzzzzzz
stephenspurs1210
It is not Pochettino lovers stepenspurs but not writing him off and giving him credit when due.
Kong
I think it's hard to assess MoPo's track record...he's not spent long enough at a club to show he can buy and introduce players into a team, lose his better players and still maintain or improve results...(didn't he leave Espanyol as a relegation battlers?) FdB has done all of that whilst winning 4 consecutive titles..how much will lack of PL experience trouble him? hard to tell...you would think any coach would know that teams set up all kinds of ways in the PL and you have to earn the right to play...any manager is a risk...but for me we need a guy who can work without money as we haven't spent any new money in 4 years and don't look likely to with the stadium taking our resources....FDb can do that add gravitas, language skills and I think he's the best we can get....on our budget!
shedboy2
nigel adkins back to back promotions.
tarkan mardinCOYS
tottspur ... Of course he will find it harder if he loses his best players. Who Wouldn’t? Look at us since losing Modric and Bale!
Geofspurs
Tarkan, Southampton improved is what you are saying so Pochettino can take some credit for that.
Kong
I keep hearing that Southampton already had the talent pre Pochettino. My question, why did they finish 14th then?. It has said been said numerous times that Poch has improved many of the players, he aided their develoment, end result, league ascendancy.
Cider spurs
shedboy-to be fair if roles were reversed and poch was ajax manager i see him having the same success.because all that is required is ahalf decent manager which pochettino is
tarkan mardinCOYS
It’s all a risk! We, of all clubs, know that. Whoever comes in will be THFC and needs our full support. I hope everyone exercises some patience and gives the poor guy TIME ... whoever it is.
Geofspurs
That is right Cider, if Pochettino comes to us and does well will people be saying it is not him but because the players were here already. The manager makes all the difference like you say.
Kong
cider spurs they had the talent there did they not get promoted with them players
stephenspurs1210
tarkan - perhaps...but don't underestimate 4 consecutive titles whilst losing your better players...if it were so easy there'd be lots of Dutch managers that had done it...in fact only 1 has more - Guus Hiddinck...FdB has equaled that of LvG....I think it fair to say he's in good, rarefied company there!
shedboy2
Good article OX ... I don’t care if the new manager is a proven winner, or not ... I’d much prefer that he proves to BE a winner!
Geofspurs
I don't know how anyone can make a case for Pochettino over Frank De Boer. One has won nothing, the other has won 4 league titles. I don't care if it is in the Dutch league. One is a proven winner, from the time he started playing the game. One has vast international experience, being one of the most capped players for his country. One has been through the best footballing school in the world, and brought up playing and learning the Ajax school of football. One has played under world class managers like Van Gaal, who we all wanted. Played for Barcalona with players like Ronaldo (original and best), Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, etc. He has been amongst the biggest ego's in the world. He has managed young talent, given young talent a chance and more importantly, showed he can help develop young players. There is no argument against FDB. The people who talk about no prem experience, Mourinho, Wenger, Ancelotti, Ranieri, Pellegrini, Houllier, Benitez and Alex Ferguson had never managed in the Premiership (Div 1) before they took the job and they all did OK. So Mr Levy, given the choice or the fact that it is a no brainer, who will he choose. No doubt, the cheapest option. Welcome Mr Pochettino, take your seat for the next 18-22 months, when we will start all over again.
vicspur
FdB would also have two players in the 1st team that he knows/know him very well and can get the best out of Eriksen and Verts.....and don't forget we don't spend money!...Rafa, Mancini et al will all need a big budget...we don't have one!
shedboy2
vicspur spot on mate
stephenspurs1210
its a tough call between the 2
tarkan mardinCOYS
its not a tough call its easy no Pochettino
stephenspurs1210
stephen...Having the talent and getting the best out of them are two different things. 14th or 8th, which points to progress?.
Cider spurs
Ronald De Boer told TalkSPORT this morning that THFC have not contacted FDB about the managerial vacancy. Whether that is true or not who knows.
Kong
I'd go for Poch right up to Xmas and, after being thrashed by the top 4, get De Boer in to clean up the mess. Sack FDB at the end of the season for failing to qualify for the CL, wait a couple of weeks, just to wind up the supporters, then Levy to announce that Sherwood is to return, a new man. Happy days.......
MAN ON!
Well talk is that the Benfica boss Jorge Jesus is now in the frame, also Yaya Toure is unhappy at Man City. Go get FDB, Cashley and Yaya a decent striker and we are good to go next year. COYS
STEVEYNIX
We tend to get managers on previous form and then when he comes to Spurs the past form disappears ... only HR has improved his standing while in post at the club....
Highgatespur
Kong, heard that interview - a bit weird ... in a way he was completely retracting what he said about a month ago.... quiet word in his ear... this is getting way tedious... just it sorted Levy...
Highgatespur
No to Pochettino,,,Pablo Osvaldo ?
Fanny adams
Also being linked to Sead Kolasinac a 20 yr old left back at Schalke who has been called up to Bosnia and Hertz full squad and linked to Manure if they dont get Shaw. I know this one is off topic but thought I would drop it in. :)
STEVEYNIX
Good post vicspur. As much as many of us want FdB and (if the rumours are true) as much as he would apparently jump at the chance to manage us, Levy continues to drag his heels. It's for reasons like this that I decided not to renew my season ticket last week. It will probably end up being Pochettino over FdB. Forget everything about PL experience, trophies etc. and put yourself in the shoes of our 'world class' squad. How would you feel if you walk in the first day of training after the debacle of AVB and Sherwood and see Pochettino standing there as your new manager? Now the same scenario and you walk in to see FdB standing there. It's a no brainer for me.
SpuriousLife
Oh, and sell Eriksen to Real for 80 million, bring in 6 or 7 new foreign players with the ready cash, watch them fail and start it all over again, ad infinitum, baby!
MAN ON!
Whilst I don't believe there is much between them. Would we be looking at FDB if it were not for his exploits with Ajax. It is on that basis we are tempted. Why is it then that Ronald Koeman does not excite as much?. He's worked in numerous European leagues.

Ajax;
Eredivisie (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
KNVB Cup: 2001–02
Johan Cruijff Shield: 2002

Benfica
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2005

PSV
Eredivisie: 2006–07

Valencia
Copa del Rey: 2007–08

AZ Alkmaar
Johan Cruijff Shield: 2009

Whilst I have no problem with FDB, think he would be good, how hard is it to win in Holland?, can this transfer to the Prem. What is it about FDB, Koeman only having won 1 title less in Holland but achieved some success elsewhere.
Cider spurs
I agree with Geofspurs, I really would like a manager who will be a winner for Spurs!!!!
Highgatespur
Yaya unhappy? The PL title not good enough for him!?
MAN ON!
Just seen this while doing the rounds. SOUTH COAST SAINT! Pochettino is on his way to Tottenham Hotspur and a deal is imminent! He will be here in a matter of days!
STEVEYNIX
I doubt that Levy is 'dragging his heels'. Surely he's weighing up the pros and cons of all possible candidates, as we speak. Maybe even in advanced talks with one or two. I'm in no hurry.......
MAN ON!
Ronald De Boer is reported as saying, that there has been no further contact between his brother and Spurs, after the original tentative feeler put out originally, at the time of AVB's sacking. This suggests, as many of us suspect that it may already be a one horse race. On the subject of "PL experience", it is a total red herring, borne out by the list of "whos who" managers that have come fresh into the PL and succeeded, of course some have failed, possibly more because of their inability to do the job, rather than the league they are in. People like Mourinho, Ancelotti, Mancini, Van Gaal, Wenger, Ferguson, all came into the PL with no previous experience, and the rest as they say is history. Habitual winners whether players or managers in football, or indeed administrators and managers in life outside football, will just win, irrespective of where they work. If they can do the job, they can do the job simple as that. Frank De Boer is just a winner, both as a player where he achieved legendary status both at club and international level, and as a manager at Ajax where he has consistently had success while regularly having to sell his best players i.e. Suarez, Eriksen, Vertonghen and others, spending very little, and developing and bringing through young players. Ajax are far more successful now than for years before he took over.
Frank
Kong, arguments as well as statistics can always be turned out to own advantage ... read Dublin's post on the thread ? I would dearly love to see a manager use the talents already at the club to get some glory for the club!!!! We await....
Highgatespur
Prem experience - There are at least 10-15 managers with Prem experience who have managed, sacked, relegated, kept their team up. The likes of Harry, Sam Alladyce, Tony Pulis, pardew, Curbishley, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on. The 2nd most experienced manager in the prem is David Moyes. 10 years with Everton. Do you want experience or do you want someone who is a winner, who can bring his winning mentality to a club. That is exactly why we wanted Van Gaal. Look at Diego Simeone, has performed wonders at Athletico. Not a lot of experience, but he beat Madrid and Barca to the title and is in a CL final. Anyone who has watched them this year know that is no fluke. How many world class stars compared to madrid and Barca. That is down to coaching. Give me a choice between a winner and experience and I will take the winner every time. Winners have a determination to succeed that will inspire those around them. Also the title of this article, proven prem? Exactly what has Pocho proven after 1 season?
vicspur
Vicspur sums it up beautifully why FDB is my preferred choice. Why replace wide boy Tim with a Danny Dyer lookalike in a tracksuit and trainers!?
MAN ON!
I omitted Rafa Benitez from my list, another example of no PL experience.
Frank
It looks like it is Pochettino so we need to get used to it. Going by some reports it is his to lose now.
Kong
vicspur, as I say pedigree of the man's football development wins hands down... Hopefully Mr Levy sees it the same way....
Highgatespur
Pochettino has proven not much
stephenspurs1210
I`d be happy with Jorge Jesus.

I don`t even see Frank De Boer as being a winner as the Dutch league managing Ajax doesn`t take a footballing genius to win it.He should at least do well in Europa but fails miserably.Ajax in Europa are worse than us,that`s worrying.

Jorge Jesus would have won 4 trophies this season if they won the penalty shoot out in the Europa final,that`s how close they come.Jorge jesus knows his $hit both domestically & in Europe,knows how to compete on all fronts.
Fanny adams
Spurious I really hope that scenario belongs in the never to happen category....
Highgatespur
Why not add Bill Nicholson and Keith Burkinshaw having no previous 1st division experience.....
MAN ON!
If it is Pochettino I am hoping that Levy and Baldini have come to that decision and it is not an order from Joe Lewis.
Kong
Although I'd much rather prefer FdB than anyone else ... Pochettino would be a vast improvement on the two of the season just gone...
Highgatespur
Man On! They forget his b'day .... I think Barca is calling ....
Highgatespur
Kong, you are moving too fast ....
Highgatespur
You don't know that Highgate. Just as not one of us knows if FDB will be any better.
MAN ON!
Don't know what Man On! ?
Highgatespur
Man on-it would be funny if poch actually spoke like danny dyer
tarkan mardinCOYS
FDB is my choice and that's it. If it's Poch, then I've had it with Spurs. I'll be supporting whichever club Sherwood goes to......
MAN ON!
You, me or anyone, doesn't know for sure If any manager will definitely be better than the last two...... We can only hope and take yet another punt.
MAN ON!
The big question not asked in this article is how much of Ajax's success down to FDB and how much of it is down to their entire club setup. It's possible he's just the lucky guy that gets to sit in the hot seat and take all the kudos and would fail without the infrastructure behind him. What would happen if Pochettino managed Ajax for 4 years? Simple, he'd win the same amount as FDB has. Let's hire Neil Lennon - he must be the right appointment with his win ratio :-)
muttley
On topic I'd have to say time once more has a big part to play. If FDB is to be given time, then he just shades it for me, if we are to stick to our "Want it all now" as a club, then Poch has to be the man.

Whilst it will take both managers time to implement their playing philosophy, Poch will have the upper hand for the years experience he has already got under his belt. He knows what to expect and should be better for it, will we afford the time for FDB to adjust to the workings of the prem league?.
Cider spurs
In that case muttely why do Ajax even bother with such distinguished coaching staff? 4 lucky seasons on the trot for FDB? I want that kinda luck at Spurs! ;-)
MAN ON!
muttley-dont knock neil lennon.celtic got to the quarter finals 2 years ago beating thelikes of barca/benfica-ajax have bigger finances than celtic
tarkan mardinCOYS
muttley..... Sorry. Dastardly spellcheck gets me every time with your name.
MAN ON!
Man On! All i am expressing is my preference and my opinion ... surely you are doing the same ? The ONLY person that knows the facts what is going is staying stupmph!!! Btw I hear Norwich are going for Malcy Mackay.
Highgatespur
The Farmer,big club in small leaque,remeber avb,Poncho not proven aything really,finished behind Tim after 2 seasons in charge.I'd have given Tim his contract time and then started looking if it hadnt worked.But hey we're Spurs with the unnerring ability to cock,no pun intended,everything up.So I live in hope etc......... COYS
spurgatso
The Farmer,big club in small leaque,remeber avb,Poncho not proven aything really,finished behind Tim after 2 seasons in charge.I'd have given Tim his contract time and then started looking if it hadnt worked.But hey we're Spurs with the unnerring ability to cock,no pun intended,everything up.So I live in hope etc......... COYS
spurgatso
...and all I'm doing is responding to your opinion with my opinion Highgate..... ;-) In my opinion I don't have a clue. It's all speculation and bias. I'm not even being that serious with it all. I have no influence on any of this. FDB will succeed though. I feel it in my bones!
MAN ON!
People say how well Pochittino has done at Southampton, why, what has he done in reality? He finished 8th in the PL with a team consisting of some quality young players, and one or two experienced old hands, assembled by the previous manager. In Shaw, Lalana, and Lambert, he had 3 England world cup players. He spent a considerable amount of money on Osvaldo, Wanyama, Lovren, with only the latter really shining. The end result was that he won 16 games last season and finished 13 points adrift of us, who by common consent with 69 points, had a poor season in 6th place. All he did last season was to perform to his career win stats of approx 36%, some 20-25% less than it has to be, to propel us back to the top 4 finishes of the Redknapp era. What we are in danger of doing both as a club, and supporters is trying to convince ourselves to accept 4th or 5th best, having missed out on LVG to Man Utd, and apparently not pursuing Benitez, Mancinni, and seemingly now Frank De Boer, we are about to settle for Pochittino, who is AVB without winning anything. We might as well, God forbid, have kept Sherwood. It is the story of life at Spurs re player signings, and manager appointments, we start off by looking at Jaguars, and end up with a Proton. A perfect mirror of the senior management's total lack of ambition for on the pitch success, infinitely more interested in the balance sheet, than the PL table. Incidentally I see Joe Lewis retained his position in the top 10 of the annual rich list with his £3.7Billion.
Frank
muttley, you ask quite a few things that gets the thinking going bu impossible to answer ... will a man with lesser ability achieve 4 titles in a row ? Go back to L'pool in the eighties - did Fagan and Evans achieve because of the structure that existed before or fail because they were not up to the level of previous management skills ? Like ManOn! says I would easily welcome that sort of 'luck' at Spurs at anytime !!!
Highgatespur
Muttley, you are wrong mate. Ajax went down the route of appointing managers who were allowed to buy players in and ignore the youth set up. That failed miserably, and left Ajax in a lot of debt and they won nothing. So they went back to what they know best, got the old boys back in, FDB, RDB, Overmars, Bergy, etc and went back to focusing on the youth setup and the academy. What you see with FDB is not luck at all, they have come in and organised the club again. Exactly what is need at Spurs.
vicspur
Come on Levy,the sooner we sign the man the sooner we get to slag him off.. I want to get some hard-edged abuse in before the World Cup kicks off!
MAN ON!
Cider I think you are bigging up premiership experience a bit too much... Mourinho had lots more experience of the EPL than Pellegrini had this year .... yet ....
Highgatespur
im really sorry if i keep coming across as a broken but why oh why did we get rid of tim sherwood if we had a shortlist of fdb and pochetinno.WHY?WHY?WHY?
tarkan mardinCOYS
vicspur. I don't need FDB sold to me, I'm in. What you have done though is add on all the little extras, upgraded him and thrown in an extended warrantee. Cheers!
MAN ON!
Why indeed? Fan power? Even though the supporters don't believe they have it!
MAN ON!
I am with you on this one Frank, as much as we all hope that Pochettino is a success we are once again going for the cheap option. Every signing, every coach appointment is a gamble but some gambles a bigger than others. I am afraid that if Pochettino is appointed we are a making a statement of no ambition and confirmation of our best players exodus.
ItalianYiddo
on ajax-you just have to wonder why overmars,bergkamp,ronald deboer and jaap stam who are all legends would converge on the gravy train that is ajax and not cultivate a career on their own?because they are wimps,just like ryann giggs,a wimp.
tarkan mardinCOYS
tarkan, any of the mentioned are head and shoulders above Sherwood, there can be little debate on this.
ItalianYiddo
Haha! Wimps United Rule OK!
MAN ON!
Highgate...Whilst that is a given, I have submitted an article which hopefully will give us a platform to discuss this further. I will however state that the calibre of players in both teams kept that battle tight, I think when you get to a cerain level spending wise, you have a good chance of becoming successful from the off. We will return to this.
Cider spurs
jobs for the boys and all that...
tarkan mardinCOYS
It's been jobs for the boys at Spurs Tarkan.
MAN ON!
italian-you dont even believe that
tarkan mardinCOYS
Well let’s face up to it, it’s going to Pochettino isn’t it. The reason that im so furious about this appointment is it seems there has Benn no thought process whatsoever. Info is always leaked in the press, and so far it seems Poch is the ONLY person who THFC have approached. If Poch is first choice then I just phucking give in.
hudderspur
The Curious Case of: Tim Sherwood...
MAN ON!
hudderspur-we need to get behind whoever is the manager and give him a fair crack of the whip.lets not have another tim sherwood scenario
tarkan mardinCOYS
Cider, that's introducing a new variability to the argument... Look forward to the article... and seeing who we compare with ....
Highgatespur
The curious case of VS and infinite speculation!
Geofspurs
Southampton appear resigned to losing head coach Mauricio Pochettino to Tottenham after intermediaries started to make discreet checks on possible replacements. The Argentine is the favourite to become the new boss at White Hart Lane after Tim Sherwood was sacked last week, leaving Daniel Levy looking for his ninth permanent manager in 13 years as Tottenham chairman. Southampton had been hopeful of keeping Pochettino and have prepared a new deal for the 42-year-old, whose contract expires at the end of next season. But Standard Sport understands Saints have started to make contingency plans, in the event Pochettino decides to leave the south coast for north London. It is believed Southampton would like to be kept informed of the plans of Oscar Garcia, the Spanish coach who quit Brighton earlier this month after the team were eliminated by Derby in the semi-finals of the Championship play-offs. Garcia has also been the subject of interest from Sunderland and from his home country, where a number of managerial changes are expected in the close season. It is thought that Dan Petrescu, sacked by Russian club Dynamo Moscow in April, and former Chelsea boss Roberto di Matteo would also be considered by the Southampton board were they to lose Pochettino. Petrescu had a brief spell as a player with Saints in the 2001-02 season and admitted last season that he was desperate to manage in the Premier League.
tarkan mardinCOYS
latest london standard piece
tarkan mardinCOYS
Man On! The only curiosity on that subject is why did Levy ever go that way ...
Highgatespur
"I want to contribute something to a club, to build something. So people can say, I see Frank de Boer’s influence there." - Frank de Boer. That statement says it all for me. I'd give de Boer the job not just for the first team's benefit but also for the chance that he'd be able to install club wide changes that would especially see us start to address the youth sides and their progression into the first team. No guarantees of course, but clubs like Ajax & Barcelona have excellent track records with their youth sides progressing into top level professionals whether it be at their club or not. We lack the extraordinary spending power of City/Chelsea/Arsenal etc. so it would be good to finally put a system in place with a man like de Boer with experience working with this kind of strategy.
BlackStar Spur
Nice one Geof....
Highgatespur
i think it needs to come down to who has the best POWERPOINT PRESENTATION.that will satisfy daniel levy
tarkan mardinCOYS
MAN ON - Thanks, I just hope someone gets the message to Levy. Also, why would all those players converge on Ajax? Because, as they had done as players, they are learning their trade and building themselves a foundation for success, not a platform for failure.
vicspur
Fair point BlackStar Spur .... a way we have been seeking for a while now....
Highgatespur
BMJ managed us to fifth...couldn't cut it at ajax though...FdB is making his own luck....
shedboy2
Also on the subject of winners, sign Ashley Cole. Would instantly solve the left back crisis and add some winning mentality to the squad. Like gallas, I don't think he would have a problem playing for us if we pay him enough. 1 or 2 seasons of him with Zeki Fryers learning from the best. Zeki will be the next Ashley Cole.
vicspur
BlackStar Spur - Don't all football managerial candidates say that. Bit like standing for the European elections!. Talk is cheap!
camper
Shedboy2 , thanks for that forgot that BMJ was there - did he focus on spending or the developement way ?
Highgatespur
Oh the look on the faces of some of our players when they walk in and see MoPo...the ability to attract big names etc...just sends the wrong signal, coupled with us not spending any new money MoPo is not a guy for anymore than the next 18 mths whilst our squad dwindles away...we've regressed for two years in a row..time to stop the rot!...
shedboy2
IMO, Pochettino could very well succeed but what of the future? He'd be off to a PSG or Milan/Real Madrid in a heartbeat if he succeeded here and he'd leave us with no solid foundation to continue our upward progression. Not to say de Boer has no ambition to manage in Spain or Italy but I feel that coming from the school of Van Gaal where working with and developing younger players is the norm, with him in charge we'd no longer need to chase massive summer signings and undertake major financial risk like we did last year. The team would have a core of young players that would be supplemented by a solid signing here and there to keep the team competitive. Atletico Madrid have proved you dont need a team of stars on extortionate sums of money in order to succeed on the pitch.
BlackStar Spur
vicspur, high hopes indeed, I'm sure Cashley will be ok with playing for Spurs but will the supporters and fans be ok?
Highgatespur
I guess you're right camper but for some reason with de Boer, i really believe it.
BlackStar Spur
i am now hearing from a very good source OFFICIAL BID FOR POCH TO BE LODGED ON THURSDAY-if true it will be all over the media outlets.
tarkan mardinCOYS
For me, Spurs have to get back to winning. I dont mean we should looking to win the title, but just purely looking to win all the matches we play. We shouldn't be looking to do just enough in the league to finish 4th and throw away the cup competitions. If next year we finish 6th and win the Europa league, thats a great season imo. City will tell you that the carling cup had a big part to play in them winning the title, because winning breeds winning. Outside of Vertonghen, Eriksen, Paulinho and a couple others, the squad have no experience winning any trophies so I think employing a manager who has just won 4 titles in a row is a great place to start in helping this club fulfill its ambitions
BlackStar Spur
straight off the bat, Kroos looks like hes gonna sign for utd. thats what a top manager does, attracts the big names to a club that finished 7th! (I know… blip , biggest club in the world etc.. just saying!) they wouldn't have a chance of getting him with Moyes in charge! thats what success, kudos and achievements of a manager do for a club! we really do need De Boer. I think he carries that kudos, as do his team!
Dublin Hotspur
Super post, as was the previous one Blackstar!
Dublin Hotspur
I think too much emphasis is being placed on 'prem experience' I believe teams should play to their OWN strengths and abilities Tim and AVB often played players out of position or picked players not good enough for the position they play We dont just need a manager, we need a football manager, someone who understands the game We have a great squad of players, all we need is the right man to inspire them I hope whom ever takes over, for the sake of us fans, gets all the players to pull their weight and give their all for the club. In their defence, many players didnt seem to know where or how to play in recent time. Which is why im saying lets just focus on how we play and let other teams worry about us
Galwayspur
I'd have no problem with Ashley Cole lining up for Spurs.
Cider spurs
I think we all know deep down that we want De boer as the next manager and that why Levy will sign Pochettino.
Rapm
Also I think united got it right. We should have signed Van Gaal when we had the chance and then let Sherwood be his apprentice while he gets his badges like giggs. But Sherwood was too stubborn.
Rapm
We'll get in a new manager and never know how the others would do. Thankfully, most on here seem resigned to staying where we are in the table or lower and not winning cups. So it really doesn't matter who we get. Be nice to get the right guy for the players we have and watch this great squad of talent achieve all that they can. With no expectations we will all be very patient with the next guy. Personally, this squad is far too good for all that and we should be getting an A-List manager who can mould them in to glory seeking Spurs. But, since we'll settle, let's go cheap. Owen Coyle is available on a free. Yakin has done far better than FDB in Europe and managed to win the title with players worth a tuppance. Just get someone in already so we can all move on to calling for him OUT. The players will all tell us what they think of the new guy. Starting over has a certain charm. COYS
peterballb
No to Poch for me. I feel that he joined team on the up. All the players were already there and showing signs of potential. He just had to put his spin on it. His one major signing was a disaster - a talented player, but a well documented hot-head. You should always steer clear from those types. Spurs need more work than Soton. We need to re-ignite our passing play, our attacking play, our fluidity. We need some rebuilding/refactoring in defence + GK and also up front. Whilst Pochettino has proven himself in EPL, he hasn't proved that he can improve a team with Soton or Espanyol (admittedly difficult). De Boer took over from Jol's Ajax and improved them. Out of the two, De Boer I would choose. So I would not say "proven winner", I would say "proven improver" beats proven EPL.
TonyRich
peter, an A lister would be nice but I really dont think it will happen. For me, Murat Yakin is a top coach who did wonders with Basel, but de Boer's reputation as a player and now as a manager put him just ahead for me.
BlackStar Spur
Tr- agree with most of that although buying a hot head can be a masterstroke...what concerns me is buying one and then not being able to manage him!
shedboy2
Looks like lloris is gonna stay, and yahaya(sp) is joining us for pre season and tour!
Dublin Hotspur
can you imagine what Osvaldo would have done to Andros....he slapped Lamela for not passing to him...Andros would have been in A&E...;)
shedboy2
Im not sold on Cole, i think he would bring a lot of disharmony Danny Rose needs to be shipped out, itseemed he wanted to be playing lm as he never wanted to track back after loosing the ball attempting a ****e cross, leaving vert trying to cover two positions
Galwayspur
I have no problem with Cole unless, he's playing for Chelsea or Arsenal! If we bought him he'd be a Spurs player and that's ok with me.
MAN ON!
Not you frank. But you are in anyway!
Dublin Hotspur
I suppose if we get it wrong this time, we can always hope to get it right next time! Lol. Come on DL, you should have sealed the deal with LVG before moyes was sacked! Let's get it right now! Look at every poll on the web, the fans are in a strong majority for FDB! The players I am sure will echo this. Give us the right man! Frank IN!
Dublin Hotspur
now how on earth is fdb over 50% and benitez 22%?
tarkan mardinCOYS
Galwayspur .. Nice, sensible comment ... I can agree with that, Mate.
Geofspurs
shedboy2 - well, I never say never. But I cannot think of many hot head signings that worked. I would especially say that it is worse when they are strikers - e.g. Balotelli. But I fully agree that I do not think that there is always a plan in place to manage players when they are signed - especially in that case. Guys such as Lallana & Lambert are a doddle to manage in comparison to Osvaldo.
TonyRich
Galwayspur - As a professional player, Cole has been exemplary. I am not talking about his off field behaviour, which is different. He is in superb shape for his age and more importantly his level of playing consistancy has been second to none, except when Lennon used to terrorise him. He plays with passion and is a winner. Unless he tried to 5hag Sandro's girlfriend, I don;t see a problem.
vicspur
I wonder if this is part of the beginning of Poch's potential move to Spurs. Daniel said he wnated to continue with the youth breaking through.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2633682/EXCLUSIVE-Southampton-sack-academy-coaches-Jason-Dodd-Paul-Williams-not-spending-time-players.html
Cider spurs
No to Ashley Cole by the way. He has been one of England's best players - no doubt. An a hole off the field - no doubt. Certainly ripped us to shreds on numerous occasions. I don't care about who he played for before when the player is good. The respect is there as a player, but I feel the wrong move as I do not want short term solutions, plus can he play full seasons now? I believe that we need to get a LB that can be number 1 for years. Rose can deputise and try to improve (if he thinks he can).
TonyRich
Cashley is a very tough one. If we look at Gallas and what he brought to the team for approx 2 years I do feel Cashley would bring in some leadership and steady performances. He has probs had his worst season for sometime now and he wont last more than 25 odd games I suspect. Tough call but could be the right one if we cant get someone else in. Don't get me wrong I have a good laugh and joke about him and I would say there are few players that have had to endure the vile abuse he suffered.
Mix26
Great post Geof regarding the obsession with historical manager achievements. Bill Nicholson had no previous manager experience, apart from helping with Sir Walter Winterbottom with the England team. Clearly seen as a talent, the great Bill Nicholson took over the struggling Spurs team and the rest is history. Pocho and FDB are seen as young, motivated and highly talented coaches and I would like to see either of them at THFC. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
As Levy usually has a replacement manager in place rapidly..i.e. Harry or ramos.. (which means AVB walked out and not sacked by Levy) the waiting since TS departure is unusual. It suggests to me that FdB is the manger when he returns from Ajax Far East tour.
Block D Spurs
HELLO!...Southampton sack 2 of their famed academy coaches! WTF! Bit of a fallout between Academy and coaches, here's hoping it's not with Poch's lot if he is indeed to come. After dispensing with Tim and no reported role for Ramsey, the chance to acquire some youth coaches of this calibre can surely not be overlooked.
Cider spurs
a.k.a.james1spurs - not saying that historically successful managers are the ONLY ones than can work. I just feel that historically successful managers are the ONLY type of manager that we HAVE NOT tried yet in the ENIC era. We definitely need someone to take us to the next level, and who better than someone who is USED to a higher level than we are at right now?
TonyRich
Vacancy at Monaco as Ranieri stands down ..... uh,,oh!!!
Highgatespur
My preference for FDB over Benitez is based on wanting a young, fresh, dynamic and modern thinking new manager as opposed to, the been there and done that, older fella. I've nothing against Rafa per se but, I want the thrill of the new. I also believe that Rafa will be one to divide the fans and players alike, before we've even kicked a ball in anger come the new season.
MAN ON!
Block...FDB got back on Saturday.
Cider spurs
what about the original tinker man claudio ranieri
tarkan mardinCOYS
WHLN17london - by whole season, I mean NOT injured nor knackered for most of it. It has nothing to do with rotation. Let me put it this way: Out of our most started outfield players, the one with the least starts (all comps) was Soldado with 30 starts. I expect our new LB to be able to start 35 games next season - all comps - barring serious injury. Cole started 28 last season. So maybe....maybe not. My hunch is that we should go elsewhere.
TonyRich
Have 'em all, the long the short and the tall. Anyones ya like. 2 for a pound! I'll throw in a Gus Poyet for nothing!
MAN ON!
Out of our 10 most started outfield players...
TonyRich
MAN ON .... but how thrilling was AVB....?
TonyRich
good point tony rich
tarkan mardinCOYS
Cheers James ... How’s Jessica and mum doing? Yes, either of the two managers mentioned will do for me, too. I’m over it all now! I just want to see someone installed soon so that we can all start to focus on next season.
Geofspurs
Fair point TonyRich I can't argue with that point. Can we get a coach of that calibre? These top managers seem to get tossed around between CL clubs. Klopp, Beintez, Ancelotti, Pep Guardiola, LVG, Conte to name a few. I think FDB and Pocho can take us to the next level imho. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Recently Willian and now Van Gaal, blimey why do the Spuds keep getting gazumped by the big clubs? Food for thought for yer lol... Er meanwhile, it's "has proven" not "has proved", pal. So long ;)
HGH Magic
Tony, I liked AVB.... Different man, different ways, hopefully. Who knows? I'd be happy myself with the more experienced Rafa, I just like the romantic idea of the unknown in the PL, coming in and surprising us all. I do base my like of FDB more on just the thrill though and, believe he can succeed at Spurs.
MAN ON!
Vicspur: i believe we need two lbs, one seasoned pro and an understudy. I dont think Cole would take kindly to sitting out games to blood in a young lb which is why he is not on the plane to Brazil Dont get me wrong, i respect the lad but im not sure he is for us
Galwayspur
One English player i would like us to sign is James Milner.

IMO James Milner is far superior to the inept & incompetent Lennon & overrated 2 game wonder Andross Townsend
Fanny adams
Hgh "it" has been proven. Not its has proven. Lol
Dublin Hotspur
I'm not adamant about De Boer, it's just a personal preference but, although I'll be disappointed if it's not him I won't be gutted if it's Poch or someone with proven experience.
MAN ON!
HGH-id start worrying about eden hazard if i was you.his too attack minded for bourinho
tarkan mardinCOYS
Spurs new 3rd kit?

https://twitter.com/AddictedtoSpurs/status/468412739384520704/photo/1
Fanny adams
Milner would be good. A great utility player that always puts in a good shift.
MAN ON!
I'm an old romantic, what can I say? I also like surprises. ;-)
MAN ON!
what about ryan shawcross as a replacement for jan vertonghen.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Hmmmm…anyone think something was said to the players after or during Sherwood’s departure?? Lloris is now the fourth player (after Paulinho, Adebayor and Eriksen) who have come out and said they are staying at spurs and want to do better for them next year. Maybe they know they are largely to blame for hacking through 2 managers in 6 months. Good to see though, especially as it’s the players we want to keep!! Come on Jan….take note!! Ranieri and Falcao to join within 48hrs BTW ; )
hudderspur
Tony ... Don’t really disagree with you about managers in general, but I think we’ve got a limited choice so it’s a matter of doing the best we (Levy) can, for now. I Just hope, this time, it’s good enough!
Geofspurs
Cider, thanks for that.. then Levy is negotiating with FdB / Poch, and their agents..
Block D Spurs
Ian Holloway would be too much of a surprise!
MAN ON!
,,,,,Well, theres one or two Italians out there that could come. That would be a first for Spurs.....
MAN ON!
Big C...you got to stop this love affair of all things City!. ;-)
Cider spurs
Tottenham won't get a clear run at Southampton boss Mauricio Pochettino. The Argentine is Spurs chairman Daniel Levy's priority target after the dismissal of Tim Sherwood last week. Pochettino has a year to run on his contract at Southampton – with a £2million buyout clause. But he has other options to consider, with Valencia and Marseille also keen to take him.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Can understand the leaning towards FDB, perceived less likely to fail!Think it will go down to their respective interviews - we can debate this all day but if the fly on the wall at the final interviews, will know who it should be.
Durbanspur
Hudders don't forget Sandro pledged his future to spurs as well last week!
Slurms McKenzie
latest from tribalfootball
tarkan mardinCOYS
Geofspurs - yes were are limited, I do not deny that. I am not one of these deluded guys in thinking that we can call Ancelotti and he'll be on the next flight over... I like Milner. The guy won't let you down.... But he won't let you "up" either. But he is the sort of guy who can give a consistent level of performance that only Lloris and Eriksen managed last season.
TonyRich
Man On, I really can't see Di Canio getting the job...
Slurms McKenzie
TonyRich, i'd rather Milner then siggy, livermore, chadli, or carrol
Slurms McKenzie
di canio and holloway as a dual management team,i would like to see
tarkan mardinCOYS
FA...I hope that is not our 3rd kit. I've already read that the yellow line right up through the middle of the back resembles a streak of pi$$. Not good!.
Cider spurs
that monstrosity shouldnt even be our 20th kit,i wont be getting it
tarkan mardinCOYS
Well it seems YaYa Toure is available... #getinthereLevy
Mix26
The job is FdB's has been since AVB was let go and Spurs apporached him about the job - he was committed to completing the season with Ajax hence the mysterious 5 month break clause in Sherwoods "deal". I also buy into Hudders conspiracy theory the players have already been informed about who the new manager is and Levy is just watching and waiting for the most oppertunistic moment to make the annoucement to guarantee maximum media exposure for the club and therefore the sponsors. FdB to Spurs done deal.
Slurms McKenzie
Well, hope so Slurms....
Highgatespur
Di Canio / Holloway sure would be entertaining - for everyone else 's fans - not sure how capable they'd be, but then we've never let a lack of ability stand in the way of someone becoming Spurs manager...
Slurms McKenzie
Tony ... I agree about Milner. We need a spine of reliable players, and he would be one, imo.
Geofspurs
Throw in David Pleat and you've got the next big dance troupe to win Britains Got Talent!
MAN ON!
Geof your raising the bar quite high, for next season I'd settle for a few players with a spine!
Slurms McKenzie
Dublin, I see that old Les has followed his boss...

courtesy of HH:
Here is a quote from Les Ferdinand.
When we talk about top four, the problem with Tottenham at the moment isn’t the players’ abilities I think you’re looking at the mentality.
You don’t get beat fours and fives by people in the top four if it isn’t about your mentality. When you go to those teams in the top four you need to have a bit of swagger about you.
Tottenham need to find that.
They also need some continuity. The difficult thing for us is that you’re at the club and you’ve got five months to prove yourself but if people realise you’re not going to be there at the end of those five months they no longer need to impress you. They’re going to wait for the next manager and make sure they’re right to impress the next manager. That goes to the support staff as well. I’m not saying anyone let us down but if your mentality is ‘a new manager is coming in’, whatever the current manager is shouting about you’re not going to listen to him are you?”

It’s extraordinary that a such a senior man on our actual coaching staff, is still in employment with us.
If you worked for someone, and they asked you, in your 8th year on the job, “how are things?” and you told them that you were no closer to achieving an absolutely crucial goal, than the day you walked in the door… would you genuinely expect to keep your job?
Interesting that Les uses the phrase “whatever the current manager is shouting about” too. Speaks volumes.
If “Sir Les” is still on the premises (even as a security guard) we may as well appoint Ian Dowie.

Highgatespur
DC, Holloway and Pleat. Bouncing up and down the touchline like demented kangaroos on speed! To dare..........
MAN ON!
Holloway ? Di Canio ? not that far off - we seem to have developed a rep. for giving no hopers aspiration for achieving....
Highgatespur
Slurm... That's what I'm thinking! Players will love FDB.
tarkan, are you actually Tim Sherwood? Towing the British line, loving the man himself, wanting the worst options for spurs??? ;)
Dublin Hotspur
I like Les...... I've no idea how good or bad he is at coaching but we ain't done that bad over the past few seasons.
MAN ON!
Slurms - I hope you're right, this week would not make sense what with Van Gaal to United. Levy will let that settle before announcing the next manager
yiddyboy
Am I the only one that doesn't dislike most of our recent staff?
MAN ON!
Slurms –Just seems to me that the players have relaxed a lot in the space of a week or so. Players who were frustrated and said so in the media seem to have calmed down a bit and appear a bit happier. Maybe its just because the season is over and they are taking it steady but I think you’re right in that FDB (or whoever) has pretty much signed and the players know what the score is. Im just very surprised that the FDB story seems to have died in the press. Maybe we are finally earning how to operate a clandestine transfer window!
hudderspur
Slurms ... That too!
Geofspurs
hudderspur - until this morning....
Highgatespur
There's no doubt in my mind that a manager must either have experience of the English game (the more the better) or must at the very least have an acute understanding of the nuances of PL football, or the ability to improvise and adapt quickly to them. If we look back at our recent history of non PL managers, we have had AVB, Ramos, Santini, Gross who have all failed, mainly because of their inability to adapt their style to the PL. AVB and in particular Ramos were high profile at the time, even though they weren't placed in the top bracket of European managers. So, it's tough,and previous success on the continent cannot always be used as a barometer for future success. The history however doesn't necessary define a potential manager's aptitude, talent or "X-factor". That is the variable, and there lies the gamble. As much as we all want an A list manager, we won't get one, we havn't really had one probably since George Graham. LVG was never going to come to us regardless of the Man U situation.

. So we come to our two protagonists, Pochetinno and FDB. Well IMO neither really inspire me with confidence, but for different reasons. FDB, is a proven winner in Holland, doesn't mean that he is a proven winner full stop, therefore it's unclear whether he can translate that success to Spurs. Both Ramos and AVB had a greater degree of success with their previous clubs in Europa and in their respective domestic leagues. Ramos, won back to back Europas and brought Sevilla from no where in to the CL, in a much tougher league than Holland. AVB won domestically and in Europe. Both of those guys struggled with Spurs, especially Ramos even though he had some success by winning the Carling Cup.

Pochetinno if it is true and is almost a done deal is particularly underwhelming. I agree with those who say that we may as well just have stuck it out with AVB. He may have figured it out. "Poch" only has a season and a half of experience with Southampton, and although he has done a laudable job with them, there is nothing to suggest that that will translate to success for Spurs. If this is true then this just represents another short sighted, "financially prudent" ill thought out appointment, and I suspect that "Poch" with join all the others who currently reside in ENIC's graveyard for "failed" managers in due course. I may take a step back from Spurs if this information is true. There's a clear lack of vision, focus and most importantly lack of investment by the board and it's just not worth my time or money supporting it anymore. I digress. If it was my choice, out of those two I would go for FDB. It's a more palatable risk than "Poch" for several reasons, however we should be trying to push the boat out for Benitez, Mancini or maybe even somebody like Klopp.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Man On! Maybe because you may be one of the few who knows what he's been doing !!!
Highgatespur
Cleveland, what makes you think that GG was an 'A lister' ?
Highgatespur
The sacking of the Southmpton academy coaches will have nothing to do with Pochettino. I understand the price for Pochettino is 2M. If he brings his coaching staff it is 4M. If these were people he was intending to bring, it makes no sense to fire them as there would not be any comp owed. I believe Southampton intend to cash in on players and that is why all want gone. COYS
peterballb
The new owner od Soton is set on selling her inheritance - she has NO interest in the game - that was the original point of protest of Pochettino and co.
Highgatespur
Cleveland, here, here. Absolutely, 100% agree. COYS
peterballb
Pochettino is NOT coming to Spurs.Not even Levy is that stupid.

I can see the logic in Frank De Boer even though i`m not convinced due his appalling European record of only winning one in every three games,that`s a poor return for a team that walks it`s own league & are apparently a big club.
Benfica & Sevilla are on a par with Ajax IMO & both got to the final,where are Ajax? you hear nothing of them in Europe except the odd fine result.
Fanny adams
Have the players been told who is coming in or have their agents been told we won't be selling them so best to make happy sounds. Selling any players we have bought these past two seasons (other than Adebayor) would be ridiculous. Whoever the new guy is will need until January o truly know who is surplus and who inot. Further, if they knew it was FDB, Jan would not be saying he will not decide his future until after the new person is named. I would assume he would not object to FDB. COYS
peterballb
I still don't buy this PL experience malarky. Since the PL's first season how many winning managers have there been compared to so called failures, or serial 'failures' that keep getting re-employed? A handful of winners. That's all.
MAN ON!
If Jan has indeed be saying that, then he can bugger off now. If not, I love you Vert's!
MAN ON!
Cleveland Artspurs is right,Mourinho,Benitez,Wenger,Pellegrini etc all had EPL experience before managing in England.

EPL experience whether player or manager is a myth,it`s horses for courses.Who was our player of the season? Not Lloris the man who had no EPL experience before joining Spurs,Gomes none either but went in a different direction.Doesn`t matter where they come from,it`s about making the right choices & understanding the individual,not his nationality.
Some succeed some fail but you have to keep trying.

AVB had NO EPL experience before joining Spurs.
Fanny adams
Fanny - you do make me laugh (seriously). You're right Ajax should be doing better in Europe, but then so should Spurs, Arsenal, United etc.... Getting into CL is the dream, let's worry about how we do in it later
yiddyboy
joe lewis wants pochettino,baldini wants fdb and daniel levy wants rafael benitez.surely it cant be an simple as this
tarkan mardinCOYS
I have to say that teh obsession with having EPL experience is a bit daft. How much more EPL experience did Moyes need when he took over at United? Yen years at everton and he failed miserably at United. What we should be focused on is the style of play implemented. The abiliyt of the manager to change things up when its not working and make it work! The development of players under their stewardship and how they have progressed. A high profile within the game would help but really the managerial traits that matter are how they deal and control thier players, how they develop them, how they deploy them and flexible they are.
Slurms McKenzie
Don't blame Jan for waiting to see whats in the melting pot for Spurs next season. More reason why a replace should have been in place and announced if Sherwood was to be let go. Get the replacement sin place and transfers lined up and steal a march on the opposition. Lets not cut off our noses to spite our faces. So one of our better players isn't a die hard spurs fan! Big Whoop! we sign these guys from round the world pay them well and promise the sun moon and stars if we don't deliver can we blame them for starting to have wandering eyes?
Slurms McKenzie
@Highgate, George Graham was successful with the other lot, he won the league with them, so for me that counts for something. I don't remember another Spurs manager in my life time with his pedigree. Maybe Venables.

@Fanny, Look at all those names that you listed there Apart from say Wenger, all the others had major success with top clubs in the bigger, more competitive leagues or in Europe, or both. They had the aptitude for success and proved it. Mourinho, won domestically and won the Cl with unfancied Porto (major achievement), Benitez won La Liga with Valencia, not RM or Barca ( a feat that nobody else has repeated until this season I believe) as well as taking Valencia I believe (I maybe wrong) to 2 Cl finals. Pellegrini, had had extensive years of management in Chile, Argentina, and Spain with some big clubs such as River Plate, RM, Valencia. All these guys did the "hard yards" and proved that they had the aptitude to manage anywhere, that's why they are regarded as A-list, that's why they are unobtainable for Spurs, and that's also why anyone of those guys when the took their first job in the PL, represented much less risk then for instance FDB or "Poch"
Cleveland ARTSPURS
I am failing to see previous EPL experience anything other than a red herring. I just wish Daniel Levy got on and announced the appointment - just to give VITAL a new thread!
Highgatespur
FDB or Poch for me. What I do find hard to fathom however is the way some are slating Poch before, or if he has even been given a chance. He's as unproven as FDB, but like FDB, very forward thinking. If you choose...at your pleasure.

http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2014/5/16/5722296/mauricio-pochettino-tottenham-hotspur-interview

http://talksport.com/football/exclusive-pochettino-would-work-wonders-tottenham-manager-insists-spurs-legend-14051891706#svgGKah6qdxV6pt6.99

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/jan/17/espanyol-la-liga-sid-lowe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21084201

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/15/mauricio-pochettino-saints-southampton-tottenham?CMP=twt_gu

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/pochettino-channels-bielsa-take-game-manchester-united

Enjoy!.
Cider spurs
I agree with needing EPL experience.

Manchester United went with Moyes who had none & it failed.

Ironic though, because those who want a manager who knows the EPL will cry like faggots if David LadyMoyes becomes Spurs manager.

levy has to stop looking at stats when appointing a manager & look at the character & the individual.Need to delve deeper into a persons personality & how strong headed they are.

Jorge Jesus is a man that will suit Spurs to a T.IMO so is Rudi Garcia.
Fanny adams
EPL experience is not the be all and end all. Speaking English is important. Experience managing large clubs in multiple competitions, domestically and in Europe is a must. Managing the egos of players earning far more than their coach is not to be underestimated. Nor is a proven ability to rotate a squad so that there are players able to get the job done in February and March. Whether DeBoer or Pochettino, they both used essentially the same players, game in and game out. So did Rodgers and Martinez. Whoever gets the Spurs job, Martinez and Rodgers will all be facing new challenges. Who knows how any will do. Mancini, Benitez, and other A-Listers are A-Listers because they have done this, not once, but several times, with levels of success. No guarantees and a much higher cost. But less of a gamble. Any choice has a risk that it is not the right person. I believe there is a right person out there for this squad. Who is that man? People being paid far more than I must determine that. COYS
peterballb
Cleveland granted that GG won the league but hardly coveted by others - came to us clubless and when he went, clubless as well. Anyway that point goes on to show that previous winning record doesn't necessarily mean that a successful stint with us will follow.. btw AVB was attainable by Spurs he also won 'with unfancied Porto (major achievement)'; All these arguments (not just the one put forward by you) are pointless and can easily be turned 180 degrees... For me a vision of strength and resiliency to achieve is needed above anything else ....
Highgatespur
why would a CL manager want to take a step down to a EL team, ppl on here this aint fantasy manger, even TS could of won we were denied a peno to make it 3-1
123spurs
why would a CL manager want to take a step down to a EL team, ppl on here this aint fantasy manger, even TS could of won we were denied a peno to make it 3-1
123spurs
BTW, that kit is awful. Pele10 is going to have a field day
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Cider, with all repect to you how can a man with 4 title wins be equated with a man with one ?!Beyond any reason surely ?!!!!
Highgatespur
How about "Claudio Ranieri" ?....Recently Monaco. Could be regarded as "A Lister".
82spursdebut
123spurs a step down? well if the manager believes in himself and his ability surely he will be making the step up the following season. We are not barred from the competiion we merely have to earn the right to play in it. Any team in the Champions league this year may not be in it next year most won't be in it after christmas! Another fallacy arguement. LVG took a step down to manage europeless United?
Slurms McKenzie
Slurms, what Moyes lacked was all that I mention. Success outside of the domestic league (never mind domestically), success managing big egos and salaries and success rotating players in a season that will probably include 55-60 games. Very few have the ability. Let's see what the new Spurs coach, Rodgers and Martinez have in their lockers because it eems that all three clubs are going in to the battle on potential. COYS
peterballb
82spursdebut82 that thought was behind the 'uh-oh' comment of mine earlier on in the thread....
Highgatespur
If someones name is on a list then does that not mean they are a lister?
Slurms McKenzie
Peter I happen to agree with you and your post and kind of said the same thing further up, prem experience is a nonsense arguement made by Xenophobes
Slurms McKenzie
interesting read on FdB http://tottenhamhotspur.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/de-boer-ajax-didnt-create-sound-familiar.html...as for getting an 'A list' manager....no point..we don't have the budget for one....Rafa, Mancini (imo would be a disaster) ancelloti (lol) would all want us to actually spend some new, serious coin...something we haven't done for four years and show no sign of doing so..
shedboy2
Shedboy if we get Ancelloti how much would Bale cost us?
Slurms McKenzie
peter, may be I am wrong in the feeling that he argument you are putting forward has a lot of twists and turns.... If manure finished in the top4 this past year and got knocked out in the QFs of CL Moyes would still be in post at manure.... Come on Mr Levy announce it ... this is going insane!!!!
Highgatespur
slurms - exactly..Levy could promise Ancelloti all sorts of things...so instead of Bale he'll be presented with Andros..and when he complains Levy will fire him...I would love this board to show some ambition but until they have rinsed the club I can't see any major investment....
shedboy2
shedboy2 good one - all the positivity gone aye ?
Highgatespur
Stop talking about the need to spend money. Mancini spent money at City because he could. What huge sums did he spend in Italy to win those cups before Inter? Whatmoney has Jose Mourinho really spent? He didn't really in Italy, nor in Spain. The talent was already there. We have 300M in talent that needs to be managed. Probaby have a surplus of 35M or more from last season and a further 30M or so for the TV money this year. So we have about 70M that we can spend, assuming we do not sell any players. We know some will be surplus. Livermore and others will bring in some funds to add to the kitty. Realistically, we could spend 100M again without even being in a deficit position.

It's time for ENIC and fans alike to stop with all the smoke and mirrors excuses. You either want to win, or you don't. What is missing is a managing talent that can get this squad to perform to the levels of their potential. Hate to say it, but at the business en of the table, the difference is talent and management. I believe we have better squad talent than Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton and ManU. Did last year too, and the year before. We finished where we did because of managers. United had Fergie and Arsenal had Wenger. City and Chelsea can just buy the talent they need (FFPR sanctions are a bit of a joke - fine someone who succeeds by overspending - right - and that will work how?). The talent is in the manager's hands. You can let them run around a bit, try to sort out four competitions on the fly, rotation, keeping international players happy, making sure you don't burn players out, but it's so much easer when you have a manager who does this ll as a matter of course. An -Lister, if you will. To me there are two choices. Continue along, manager to manager, with the manager never being up to it because it is a step too far and they won't get the time (I actually believe AVB would have got us there), or, go all in and appoint a manager who can do the business and back them as far as the budget will allow. Name Mancini manager and we are a threat to every PL team at the top of the table and we will be a draw to any up and coming talent who believe in the man and the plan. COYS
peterballb
@Fanny. You, I or any of the other commentators on this site could see that Moyes was never going to succeed at Man U. He was never "big" enough for them, it was obvious, I can't believe that they paid someone to make a decision like that, especially when they are Man U, a club in their position, could have any manager they wanted, (it's like George Clooney going out with an "bird" who isn't stunning) and they pick Moyes. Moyes had 11 years or so of experience at Everton, but for me he is in that pool of managers that contains the likes of Hughes, Pulis, Bruce etc. He's competent, but never showed aptitude to overachieve. It's not horses for courses, that's a shotgun approach, which is what we have been doing, its, about talent, experience, aptitude, "je ne sais quoi" or whatever. "Poch" and FDB are big risks, because they don't strike high on any of those attribute bars. You have to look at our recent history, because there is a very clear trend. Foreign non top tier managers with 0 previous PL experience do not perform well at Spurs. Is it them, is it ENIC, is it us the fans who prevent them from succeeding? Those questions need answering before we dive back into the management pool. However, the more domestic or PL experienced guys such as BMJ and HR gave us our moments of success. It's funny in a way, because DL is between a rock and a hard place. He wants to get somebody who will appeal to the fans, so he dare not dabble in the Hughes, Pulis, Bruce pool, even though the one time he dabbled in that pool in desperation he pulled out HR and we got to the CL QF. We can't however attract the very best, so what does he do? Take another risk?
Cleveland ARTSPURS
82 - Ive just a read up of Ranieri's record as a manger. The first thing that hit me was the number of clubs he has managed in such a short space of time. His trophy record doesn't read all that well either. The other thing that struck me was the amount of money he has spent as those clubs. All in all he seems to go to a club, under achieve for a year or two, move on and leave the club in a shed load of debt. Maybe send his CV to the Arsenal owners lol
hudderspur
Any suggestion for a solution Cleveland ?
Highgatespur
@Highgate, yes you are correct, there's nothing guaranteed, when it comes to manager appointments e'g Scolari at Chelski, however I believe you have to look at as big a picture as you can in order to minimise the risk as much as possible, even then it doesn't always turn out smelling of roses. Everybody has a part to play in this, including us the fans. E.g, if "Poch" or FDB come in, then we have to give them time. On AVB, I don't think that we could have got him direct from Porto, he was hot property at the time and went to Chelsea. We got him by virtue of the fact that his stock had fallen due to his experiences with the blues.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Cleveland ARTSPURS That`s true say & the last thing i want Spurs to do is make the same mistake by trying to play it safe,when in reality playing it safe is worse than taking a risk.
You can always respect the risk & the good intentions of wanting Spurs to do well,failure is far easier to take when the ambition was there for all to see.
Fanny adams
highgate...i pretty much care not for titles won with other clubs, only matters when winning for Spurs. No guarantee whatsoever that FDB can translate that form in the Prem.

it can be used as an indicator, but not a given. I'm calling both Poch and FDB equal as in that they both come and have to start from scratch at Spurs. Will FDBs 4 titles mean anything to anyone of us if he bombs at Spurs?. No, of course not, so they mean nothing now either because he has not achieved anything at Spurs. 4 titles, great if you support Ajax, we however support Spurs.

Poch is just as much considered a forward thinking, dedicated ambitous manager as FDB, but maybe some are blinded by his non winning titles elsewhere. Means nothing, maybe a few should have a read of the links I put up, from what is written I see nothing less than that can be of comparison to FDB ethos, philosophy and drive wise.

Forget the titles for a minute, it has no bearing on Spurs, now start considering what has been said about Poch and by whom. Two clubs, both sets of fans not wanting him to leave. Never finished in Europe placings, so what is it about him?. It's because like FDB, he actually is a very compotent manager with the potential to be a true great.

people harp on about wanting youth incorporated, a playing identity, players showing desire. Guess what, Poch does also, the links really are enlightening and hopefully will allow for a little more considered thinking as opposed to winning four titles in Holland.
Cider spurs
Highgatespur, of course Moyes would have the job ifhe'd have managed all that. That was a chance they took and was, by all accounts, the successor that Fergie wanted. They would never have hired him otherwise because he has not proven himself in any of the areas I suggest one must. They went from Champs to 15 points out of top 4. Now they have brought in a manager who ticks off all of the necessary boxes. They still need to refresh the squad, but do have some money to throw around Their challenge will be that they still have a lot of players on large wages that really cannot be moved and must e key going forward. Will it work for them? Who knows, but, going the route of A-List Manager (who, by the way, will not bein the CL next season) will probably give them a leg up to any managers trying to learn on the job how to manage a large squad, with large egos and keeping players focused and motivated in games in four competitions. Our manager is likely to be one step behind Rodgers and Martinez because it will be a wholly new squad whereas they are established with their squads. COYS
peterballb
*Highgate*...Sorry.
Cider spurs
No idea, Highgate, I don't really know who we can feasibly get ATM. If it was up to me, I'd try and get Benitez or Mancini, and work from there. Whoever we get, needs time from the board and the fans to build something though.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
By the way, I'm not swaying toward Poch as opposed to FDB, for me they are similar. I just believe the whole picture and background needs considering, fed up with players and managers alike being written off before taking the field or hot seat alike.

How hard do you reckon that was for Pochettino to come in after the sacking of Adkins?. Everybody stating it was madness, that says alot about the man to me, not only did he accept the challenge, he exceeded many peoples expectations in the space of just over a season.
Cider spurs
Cider, one thing I truly value is the past experiences of building up a club which I feel one has an abundant of and the other hardly any... also I don't think we can be the judge and the jury even before a man gets here... As I said in my previous posting previous success doesn't mean much but ir helps if they know what success looks like ... take care (hope the hospital visit went well foe the wife)...
Highgatespur
cleveland , nor do I but I would suggest neither Beniteznor benitez would glance at us.... maybe we should all wait for the announcement and then let the avalange start ... LOL ... take care
Highgatespur
Cider about Pochettino ,I suppose his best mate being charge helped and his lack of English helped as well... similarly how would one feel if 4 title wins were demoted to nothing ... LOL
Highgatespur
Highgatespur......yes, have to admit, not that impressed. Rule him out !..lol
82spursdebut
@Highgate, yes that's probably the best tactic, this manager speculation is already making my head hurt.@Cider If we are looking at "Poch" and FDB in those terms, then we should also be considering Laudrup and as Peter says Yakin. For me, they are all in the same "pot". One thing to bear in mind is that just because the media is quoting the "runners and riders", they are not always accurate. HR and AVB were both a bit of a surprise, so we could end up with somebody completely unexpected.
Cleveland ARTSPURS
Unexpected >>>> Moyes<<<<<< Not that he would be my choice.
82spursdebut
Highgate...Nicely played, you know how it was meant. ;-) FDBs 4 title wins are relevant to him, something he is very proud of I'm sure. What do those 4 titles mean for Spurs...Nothing?. I rest my case m'lord.

On the other hand, if we appoint FDB and end up 18th at the end of the season, it matters not, he's got 4 Eredivisie titles. Where would they have got us?.
Cider spurs
Highgate...Hospital 5th and 9th June. ;-) Thanks!.
Cider spurs
Cider - sorry I didn't mean anything scrupulous ... 4 titles does mean that he has the taste of success and going through the experience of winning things - better than no experience of winning.... If we appoint anyone and end up 18th - we've got to support the man! All the best to all those at home ;-)...
Highgatespur
Another day and yet no clue as to who will come in,...boooo
Arky
If rumours are to be believed, "Geavesaboveall" will be delighted.
Arky
Cleveland...If you look on the forum side of VS, under the thread "Spurs next Manager" you will see that I am the only one to vote Yakin. Performed the deed a good while ago. ;-)
Cider spurs
Arky, new rumours?
Highgatespur
Highgate...Of course winning titles should be considered, I suppose I maybe base my argument on the fact that it still does not guarantee success here. But yes, maybe more acceptance of what that may bring from myself should be considered.

I suppose a winner should point to maybe having more chance of success, but I do not like the idea that one who has not, is not capable of succeeding. Bear in mind Poch did endure an awful lot of boardroom unrest and struggles during his Espanyol tenure. Very hard working conditions by all accounts.
Cider spurs
This is all going around in increasingly dizzy circles... I think I'm getting one of your headaches Highgate..... Let's consider Harry Redknapp. Not the man and his traits but his career. From 1976 with Seattle Sounders as a player coach through to Spurs. A typical career path for an English League manager ensued..... He achieved nothing much to mention that was out of the ordinary, as has been the case for most PL managers, that we have all seen come and go.... First season with Spurs, a league cup final. First full season and he takes us to 4th place, CL and he's Manager of the year! We all know the rest..... Under Harry we played some fantastic football. When we were good we were great. When we were bad we were bad and, occasionally awful..... HR fired, in with AVB. Harry joins QPR, spends a fortune and gets relegated with QPR! Why did Harry do so well with Spurs and not so good with all the others? Truth is we don't know why? It's not all as predictable as we like to think..... Levy takes a punt on whoever comes in. The more high profile the guy the greater the fall. The less experienced the guy, the greater the rise, if it comes.... That's the beauty of football, for me. The risk, the uncertainty and the unexpected. Let's see who comes in and hope we get to win more than we lose. Up the Spurs!
MAN ON!
Nice summary there MAN ON... Problem with the risers is if pochettino does come and does really well he has already left espanoyal for Southampton and he would have left Southampton for us all in contract, and our track record of keeping hold of anyone good is diabolical,, basically he'll be gone in a year and a half regardless, sacked if he is shi1, onto another stepping stone if successful.
T.H.F.Chris
Highgatespur, apologizes, no new rumours. Just the ones from the thread above. TtId.
Arky
MAN ON! we had the third best squad (IMO) under Harry. So why did he get fourth? Because that was where the talent played to. Ramos was never going to get relegated. Yes, he got us to a cup final, and a cup semi-final in his tenure at Spurs. We were the defending League Cup Champs because "hapless" Ramos beat a superior team, with tactics. We lost to an understaffed, bankrupt Pompey because we were outworked and out managed. 4th is not the prize. First is. Fourth was a perfect storm. Liverpool way off the mark. City on the ascent but not quite there. Who was the other competition. Good for Harry, but just like at West Ham (where he also flattered to deceive) the talent of his players was not relected in the results in the table, regardless of how "nice on th eyes" it was. People talk of all the great football yet gloss over the 21 points dropped in games we dominated in the year we got 4th. 21 corners and free kicks for an Aston villa 1-1 draw. Conceding late goals. The year of CL qualification was as a result of the strength in the squad and Harry being forced to rotate because of injuries and cards. Bale set to leave, Modric accidentally in the middle and so on. Kranjcar, Pav, bentley and others all played their part in that. And the season ended to the tune of 2 or 3 top signings and we'll be competing for the league. VDV, Gallas cme in and we go back. Why, burnout. His own players were saying they were knackered, yet continue to play them he did. 2 straight years of relegation form in February and March saw us go from contenders for the title to outside of the CL positions. Sure, bad luck that Chelsea won the CL, but our squad was still better than Arsenal's.

As you say, the history of Harry was like all other "average" British managers. They do ok when able to trot out the same guys week in and week out. Let's see how Rodgers does next season. Let's see how Moyes does wherever he ends up. Give him our squad and he'll finish 5th-7th. No cups and out of Europe early on. Harry has a PL team in the Championship, and if they don't win at the weekend, they will be so far in debt it won't even be funny. They should have won the Championship at a trot. Look at the talent and experience they have. And how'd they do in the cups. He is moderately better than Sam Allardyce. COYS
peterballb
peterballb. That's my point. Harry is historically, just an average manager but, he improved Spurs position and standing as a club in a relatively short space of time. Who predicted it? It's down to Redknapp that our expectations of what Spurs can do, has increased amongst so many supporters. I believe that an up and coming coach with talent can achieve more than Harry an with our much improved squad. I don't necessarily think it has to be one of the golden oldie brigade of achievers.
MAN ON!
Harry did a good job with Spurs. He had a lot of input and influence on our improved position. I'll give credit where it's due. Why belittle it by saying, only 4th and we didn't win a cup. I think that's unfair. In turn, I can't credit Ramos for what he may have done had he not been fired.
MAN ON!
Hard to beat - apart from twice to us :) also, not proven. 1 season with a good team and a good finish. He needs to prove he can cope when shaw, lallana etc leave. Frank de boer for me.
Windlespur
Any management appointment carries a risk, as somebody said, Scolari was a WC winner and failed at Chelsea, likewise Santini failed at Spurs, or rather lost his bottle at the prospect of failure and ran. The thing you have to do is to attempt to minimise the risk, just as you do when you buy a second hand car. You check the service history, you look at where has he worked, how much success has he enjoyed, is he a winner, what is his management style, do players respect him, and want to play for him, can he attract the caliber of player you hope to sign, what is his record in the transfer market, does he bring young talent through, does he play the game the right way, will he be a stabilising, rather than a disruptive personality. Although both have qualities I think FDB comes out ahead. Having said that, if as Ronald De Boer and others have stated, there has been no contact between FDB and Spurs, since AVB's departure, nothing can progress. So it depends on who you believe, with his track record who would believe Levy. This means FDB is either not fancied, and probably will not get an interview, just as nobody else did, when either Ramos or AVB were appointed, or it could be of course be that Pochittino, as strongly alleged, has a friend in high places, in fact in the highest place, none other than Joe Lewis, although his knowledge of football, and football team management, could be fully summarised on the back of a postage stamp. It looks like a done deal with Pochettino, and it looks for all the world that Levy and Co. have done it again, and have got it wrong for the eighth/ninth time, you have to admire their consistency. Incidentally why do we employ a DOF, if as seems to be the case, the decisions to fire a manager, and then to select his replacement, are taken by others. Surely this renders the DOF redundant, and he then becomes an expensive luxury to just be around the place, while others do his job. Or is it simply that Baldini is saying something re. the manager appointment that Lewis/Levy just don't want to hear. This club will never progress until bean counters stick to counting beans, even on a sun lounger in the Bahamas, and leave football decisions to football people. It is simple really, as many clubs around the world can testify.
Frank
Why do you not like frank de boer campaigning for the job camper ? Surely that is a good sign that someone is trying to join us, wants to join us, trying to force the move to be here. That is a good sign.
Windlespur
MAN ON!, sorry, can't buy that. Ramos was brought in because 5th was not good enough for ENIC or the fans. They brought in the players that carried Harry through when he took over. Harry is average. With what he had, he should have done better. He shold have finished above Arsenal when he was given the players But he didn't because Wenger has far more nous, and it is not good enough, at the top of the table, in four competitions, to just play your way, with the same XI and expect to win. That doesn't work for any team. Coaching is so much better now. For me, I will watch next season with great interest to see how Rodgers and Martinez manage the increased schedules and expectations as a result of their abilities. And, let's wait and see who Sprs get. If Harry loses on the weekend, he may be available too. COYS
peterballb
peterballb has never been a fan of harry redknapp,ive read through some of the archives
tarkan mardinCOYS
I don't think you're understanding me clearly, peter. I wasn't praising Harry for being a great coach. I didn't say that. I said he had done well for a run of the mill one and for that I give him my praise. Nothing more. On the back of that I'm saying a better coach than Harry should achieve more with us, with what i see as a better squad. I don't care what Rogers and Martinez may or may not do next season. Their fans and the rest of us can only judge them from where they are right now.
MAN ON!
peter. We were not 5th when Ramos was fired...
MAN ON!
choosing managers is such an inexact science and shall remain long after we have all snuffed it.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Gus Poyet, anyone?
Falstaff the Fool
tarken? Why didn't I just say that and be done with it.
MAN ON!
Harry did so well because he decided with Levy who he wanted in his squad. You can debate all day whether he picked the right ones but what cannot be debated is that he had the most success of any premier league spurs boss and for much of that time it was exciting to watch.
sweeneyspurs
Man on-the bit about snuffing it
tarkan mardinCOYS
Snuff said. I like a bit of snuff to snort, as it goes.
MAN ON!
tarkan mardinCOYS... Yeah! ;-)
MAN ON!
sweeneyspurs-i got that impression as well whilst harry was manager.
tarkan mardinCOYS
sweeneyspurs. That's all I was really saying. I didn't really like the guy as a personality but, I'll still give him credit where it's due. We can't all be champions....
MAN ON!
i hated when harry was in front of a camera,it was like hiding behind the sofa stuff
tarkan mardinCOYS
....and Bale was a much better player when he left us than he was when Harry arrived. AVB helped him along also.
MAN ON!
No MAN ON! and I don't expect you to credit Ramos for what might have been. He won one cup in one season. That's what Harry has managed his entire almost three decades of coaching. And he didn't do it with either of the talented teams he managed, which is the irony of the whole thing. Personally, I believe our talent in the squad was better than what Harry achieved. I believe, last season, AVB had the 5th best talent to work with. Where did we finish? This season was the same. All the changes and the injuries made CL highly unlikely. But not good enough for ENIC or Spurs fans who have a need to be entertained. Yes, it is entertainment, but one is judged by success. This is not the People's Choice Awards. Goal should be to win every Cup possible while building to win the league. Under Harry, I never believed we would win anything. Under AVB and Ramos I did. Pochettino, Poyet, Martinez, Rodgers, FDB, Yakin, Laudrup are all guys with the potential to win stuff, in time. Will they get the time? COYS
peterballb
I don't know peter... ;-) I do think you're reading more into what I'm saying though, than I'm actually saying...
MAN ON!
In truth I'm not as fussed about winning trophies as I am about being entertained. Much more fun to have been a Liverpool supporter this year than a Spurs one and Liverpool ain't won a thing.
MAN ON!
tarkan, you don't need to read the archives. He is a hack. My opinion based on decades (not a couple of games here and there) of watching him ply his trade. I would no sooner want Sam Allardyce as Manager, for the exact same reasons. Both fine when they have their 13 guys that they like to trot out every game. Very limited when the job calls for more. Again, my opinion.

MA ON!, the pro-Harry press kept trying to get Bale to say Harry was the reason and Bale continually stated it was because he was finally being allowed to play. He, himself, gives AVB far more credit and the two seem to have a great admiration one for the other. That's not spin. It' all there for any who choose to read rather than be told what the press think. Not a dig at you. The pro-Harry press is so biased, it's no wonder he could get away with saying fans were idiots, we've never had it so good and thousands of othr ridiculous things. AVB says that the plyers feel like the home fans aren't behind him and he is the devil incarnate (even though it was true). It's all about selling advertising and AVB was boring. Nothing to see here. COYS
peterballb
AVB,s tenure was disjointed through no fault of his but his stifling tactics and narrow wins in low scoring games was always concerning and when these tactics lead to thrashings you are in trouble.
sweeneyspurs
Spurs have not won a lot in my 50 odd years but I'm still looking forward to the next match. That's what the score is for the vast majority of football fans around the world....... Most of us are, unfortunately more often than not, losers!
MAN ON!
The Liverpool fans expect to win though and don't think that if Rodgers drops back they won't move on. Benitez was not exciting, but he had them playing above their level and the fans recognized that. Keegan wasn't seeing much love and the games were poor. If they lose Suarez, they won't be the same team. Their back end, like Everton's are getting up there. The extra games will take a toll. Say what you will, Liverpool fans support their team, good times and bad. That does not mean they don't expect their teams to achieve to their level. COYS
peterballb
I agree about Bale and AVB but Harry did also help him along the way. My point was really only that football can surprise us and it's not always as predictable as we'd like it to be. Harry was used, merely as an example.....
MAN ON!
AVB's tactics didn't lead to thrashings. Players not putting in a shift or being ready did us in. It was not the tactics. Who told 5 players to not pay attention to the start of the City game? It sure wasn't AVB. He got the "boring" tactics right against Mourinho. Sherwood's exciting play was no better. In fact, he did worse against Chelsea. COYS
peterballb
Let's see who ENIC appoint. The positives and negatives of all have been canvassed. If we are not appointing an A-List Manager, either none were willing or that's where our ambition lies. Talent is there to be better than Arsenal, ManU, Liverpool and Everton, IMO. COYS
peterballb
MAN ON! It's how you lose that counts. i
Thats Entertainment
I was saying all season, when Rogers was being praised, hey, they've not won anything yet but it was fun watching them get close. One slip up from their most consistent and loyal player, for many years, Gerard, may possibly of lost them the title. One slip is all it can take between being loser or champion...
MAN ON!
peterballb...With that I can agree.......
MAN ON!
Ask my ex-wife........ ;-)
MAN ON!
One little slip..... just one! ;-)
MAN ON!
Levy I think will hire Raffa Benitez, who will hit the ground running and get the best out of what we have. Levy has already said no major changes for new season just tweaking.
Thats Entertainment
I think Ferdinand said on Sky that the talent is there but the mentality of a top club isn't. Peter, the Chelsea Sherwood loss was also down to individual errors after stifling, then dominating the first half.
sweeneyspurs
I'll take Rafa... I do think he'll be a controversial choice though, regardless of his standing.
MAN ON!
Is Rafa available?
sweeneyspurs
I thought he'd already counted himself out of the running though.
MAN ON!
Wit Sherwood it was always a game of two halves. Virtually every goal is down to individual errors. Whether players bailing out of a tackle, not closing, not being in the correct position. It's why teams can park the bus against us. So long as we miss our chances and they don't make mistakes, they are always in it. The only "good" game under Sherwood (where there appeared to be a plan and execution) was Newcastle. I have been listening to all the press and I know it was never ever Tim's doing. Sherwood, Ferdinand blaming the players, the organization, the DOF etc. Wasn't them. Just like it was never Harry. Funny, AVB walked 6 months ago and has still not fired a single shot across the bow. Class can't be taught. Yet one's a hero, the other a zero. Boggles the mind. None will be the next manager so it matters not. COYS
peterballb
Benitez would be good but I have not heard any rumblings from Italy that he is looking to move. He had success this seson and there is lots of talk of potential transfers, so I'd expect him to stay. That said, he and Mancini. for the right contract, could be brought in. Both would be unpopular. Both are proven winners. Both don't care what th fans or papers think. They have a job to do and will do it, their way. COYS
peterballb
Both candidates have much in their favour, so I am another person who would be happy with whoever gets the job. If Denis Bergkampf comes in as part of FDB's team, then so be it. If MP is appointed and still gives post-match media interviews in Spanish, then so be it. Nor do I care whether any of those named are heterosexual or homosexual, are vegetarian, carnivores or omnivores. I don't care about any of that. Whoever is appointed, wish him the best and make some allowances for a new man in a new job at a new workplace. Whoever is appointed, allow for there fact that there will be good runs, hot and miss patches, rough periods and great runs in this or that competition. In other words, be serious and keep uppermost in mind the main thing — that Spurs get sensible, get down to it, and take the rough with the smooth. The club and the squad will feel the benefit of it.
Airwave
This is a total no no but I am so impressed with the organisation of Tony Pullis and what he has done with a disjointed squad at Palace. Never be at Spurs but what could he do with a talented squad. Could he get the mental side of the players right? Meticulous preparation and thought for every game.
sweeneyspurs
Yes, managers can make sure players are doing what needs to be done or not in the lineup. Just saying. COYS
peterballb
Sherwood will learn how to be a proper manager somewhere else but doubt it will stop him keeping his mouth shut, he can't help it. He was sacked just like AVB and others before him. Let's focus on the potential new man.
Kong
It is not just about the manager, but getting in a couple of winners, with winning mentality. This squad is very good, but frail and a new man at the top and a couple of leaders on the pitch is all we need. I would take Cole, just for a season and just for that mentality which would make the likes of lloris and verts take note, step up and go into the season positive. evy should do that deal now.
Windlespur
WHLN17london, you know it isn't about Sherwood but as he was being mentioned by others I thought I would talk about him too. I can talk about AVB too, doesn't have to be just Sherwood.
Kong
Peter - best post of the day starting 'wit Sherwood....' hopefully tomorrow the guessing game will stop....
Highgatespur
Benitez is stepping nowhere near N17....
Highgatespur
High gate - why tomorrow? Hope you are right, we need to get started now...
Windlespur
WHLN17 Pulis was by far manager of the season, really impressive as soon as he took over, you could hear him bellowing instruction every game, proper man management... Before palace I never wanted him near Tottenham but compared to pochettino I don't see what the problem would be, seem to remember he got some big scalps at stoke as well.
T.H.F.Chris
That is why i talk about Sherwood WHLN17london, much more interesting and never a dull moment. He is part of our history now so let's hope we get the right man to do a proper job now to get us fans all united behind the team.
Kong
Regarding class, Peterballb, +1. TtId.
Arky
Kong. I'm finding all the strange,and continued obsession people have with Sherwood pretty boring. He had a job and now he doesn't have that job. The End..... The next subject for our discontent will be....... Cue Loser Levy.
MAN ON!
Windlespur - well it wasn't today - hopefully tomorrow, the sooner the better!!!!
Highgatespur
All those that don't like him are still posting links about his every move for the past week. I like the guy but have paid no attention to it whatsoever. The man's being stalked by jilted love-haters! The rest of us don't give a damn.
MAN ON!
Levy has done most things right business wise and most of his management decisions have been backed by the fans. Is he simply too much of a fan to make rational decisions? Pulis in!!
sweeneyspurs
Man On, very true, not sure why I brought Sherwood up, bad obsession. Onto the next victim, sorry I mean manager.
Kong
come on daniel levy time to wake up
tarkan mardinCOYS
That's something I've always felt sweeney. So many fans pile on the pressure to sack whoever's in charge and then swiftly follow it with why was he not given time? Or Levy needs to show patience. Levy should stay out of the affairs of football.. Etc. Well his main job is to hire and fire. If the he does what the fans want he's still criticised and if he doesn't he's a loser. Spurs can't win and neither can Levy. He is just one of numerous chairmen that have exactly the same dilemma, win or lose.
MAN ON!
Kong. I'm not referring to you as such.
MAN ON!
Whoever the next guy is, hello! Thank you, you did your best but it wasn't good enough. Goodbye and good luck. It was nice knowing you.
MAN ON!
I know you wasn't Man On but I have been guilty of talking about Sherwood too, time to focus on the present and that is our next manager whoever he may be.
Kong
It's a funny kind of limbo right now. It's easier to refer to our recent past when we're yet to know our immediate future.
MAN ON!
Still, it's a good while until we kick-off the new season and there's still a world cup to look forward to.
MAN ON!
Man On! It's only natural that the supporters would be interested in anyone talking about the club we support... I'm sure the posters are no love-haters but just bewildered at what is being said by the ex boss. Personally I as a bit taken back by what was said by Ferdinand.... it's our club and shouldn't be too surprised by the interest.... it'll hopefully stop by the news of the new appointment....
Highgatespur
haha, if it werent for city you wouldnt be on this high wage, The 31-year-old Ivory Coast international is upset with staff, not the players at the Etihad, who forgot his birthday on May 13
123spurs
That sounded convincing.. ;-)
MAN ON!
Happy Birthday YAYA......... Give the man a PL winners medal, a kiss and a hug.
MAN ON!
ppl wanted TS gone and now they got there wish, but it seems hes spirit is still here on VS, hes name keeps popping up
123spurs
Highgatespur. I know. I'm just making light of the matter. I'm as impatient as the rest of us to know who the next guy is. I'll close my mind to all that stuff and just think about the future Champions of England. THFC!
MAN ON!
Whatever Tim says, wether we like it or not, is just hot air now. Tim will not upstage the world cup, or THFC.
MAN ON!
mayb TS forgot verts birthday, sandro an paulinho and capoue......bentelab and kane def got there birthday cakes....holtby wasnt around to collect hes :P
123spurs
Just ignore it, it's only words. Those words will not affect how our results will pan out next season.
MAN ON!
man on TS an Les were only speaking the in house truth about spurs, sorry the truth hurts some times, we have buckle so many times over the years, finallly someone has the balls to come out an say it, we lack winning fighting mentailty, ive even said it myself.
123spurs
Haha.....
MAN ON!
123spurs... I've been saying it too. So has Ardiles. In that case maybe those words should have an effect. I've just stopped listening.
MAN ON!
ppl dont like him causee he never went to get hes "arrogent badge"
123spurs
so have most fans......
MAN ON!
.....So have most fans said what they're saying I meant. To me it shows they care. Not the contrary.
MAN ON!
well thats 3 of us so far lol. but we what do we know
123spurs
One thing that is increasingly noticeable about the vacancy for a coach/manager at Spurs, is that there are very few candidates putting their heads above the parapet to declare an interest, or anybody canvassing for the job. It appears that the Spurs job may not be that attractive after all, I wonder why. Often when a "big club" job comes up there is daily press speculation, and statements, and claims, and people vying for the job, not this time there seems to be universal apathy. Could this be because, despite us fans being reluctant to accept it, and most not wanting it, Pochettino is a done deal, and this is known in the football community.
Frank
Why would a man that doesn't care feel the need to express himself at all about the situation? He just got fired, a week ago!
MAN ON!
Frank. I see what you're saying but the various leagues seasons have just come to an end, the world cup is looming and people, I'm sure, are just taking stock before any moves are made. I'm sure there's a lot going on under cover, if you like.
MAN ON!
I'm not saying that mouthing off after the fact is right but I can understand why....
MAN ON!
Sorry that was to 123....
MAN ON!
Man On! I did quite well so far... by my standards!!! Had to share what ferdinand said though... the vacuum created by Levy's lack of decision is causing a lot of it - so heres hoping the announcement is soon... btw I am already dreaming of THFC being the PL Champions, EL winners, CL winners, FA Cup Holders, Capital Cup holders, NLD winners and the rest .... COYMS!!!!
Highgatespur
Highgatespur.. Sounds fair to me...
MAN ON!
No matter who gets the job it won't change the fact that we are an ungrateful moany lot! Ever read back over the comments with a crital eye or with a neutral mind set? He only won us one trophy, he only got us in the champions league once we've only finished fourth a couple of times, we've only finished sixth or higher for the last number of years. Even with potential managers: ooh we don't
Slurms McKenzie
?...Ooh we don't want him he's only won Dutch titles, he's never succeeded in the champions league, he's never won a trophy, blah blah blah. Why can't we accept that as a club we are improving granted its slowly but a slight tug of the forelock to our previous managers who have all come in and done a job for us, there is room for improvement but there was a far wider margin for failure or at least dis-improvement. We are a team that is steadly improving we are straved of out right sucess and we need someone capable of managing fans expectation while keeping the boards expectations reasonable and most importantly someone who can out think the bulk of the opposition managers.
Slurms McKenzie
Slurms, that's what I have hearing of us from others ever since i began supporters the Mighty Spurs!!! COYMS!!!
Highgatespur
Where does our interest in Poch come from until now? Is it not just the bookies and the press talking? I don't think we should presume that it's fully known exactly what Levy is up to.
MAN ON!
very true man its all speculation...........agent like to use spurs as a steping stone and up the interest, just like willian
123spurs
Man On! I think that was said very early on - the circle finally comes around !!!!
Highgatespur
That's what this board has come to Slurms. Unfortunately its fueled by the mastermind Levy. I used to have a lot of respect for him but his trigger happiness over the last few years has taken its toll. Now I have no faith that he will appoint someone who has the stature to stabilize this bunch of talented but uninspired players. Although I can never turn my back on Spurs I would be truly upset if we settled for a lesser name than a Benitez or Mancini or similar. Time to get it right Levy!
jvd
We seem to have forgotten... For an A list manager who has won titles and cups in different leagues. He had to start out from nothing..build his experience... So having thought about this, and levy's "change of direction" statement when Harry was moved on...AVB started this new direction..for us.... It looks like Poch. will be the manager..Or if not any one from 6 possibles.
Block D Spurs
I think it's safe to say FFB is the fans favourite however it's more than likely Pochettino has been offered the job.

"Pochettino's future up in the air"
"FDB claims Spurs have made no further contact"
RyanHotSpur
The truth is neither of these managers has achieved anything to suggest they can take a club like ours to the next level. We've fired yet another manager and are scratching around for a replacement, no one who could do the job is interested. The Dutch league proves nothing, McClaren winning it with FC Twente was a bigger triumph than anything De Boer has done. Taking a club to a mid table position in the premier league proves even less. What you would be looking for is someone with a history of winning things with a club of our size or smaller, premiership experience would be nice, failing that winning in europe would do. Since neither the fans nor Levy seem to understand that you can't have a successful club if the manager is not in charge whoever is appointed will quickly be undermined anyway. I expect next season to be the same as last, whoever we appoint. I've never renewed a season ticket with less enthusiasm. Still if it keeps people happy pretending that we are going to get different results by repeating the same mistakes so be it.
jod
I don't get it? Scores of you truly believed Van Gaal would be the next THFC coach! I kept reading it on here! I don't get it? Bale was going no where many of Danny Babies loyal followers announced repeatedly announced on here last summer, and verbally abused Spurs fans who dared to inform us the truth, that Bale was gone! We are going to win the OS bid we were told by so many on here. AVB is Levy's long term coach we were told by those who celebrated CL quarter final coach Harry's stab in the back sacking! We are about to take the Arsenal out, because of Levy's shrewd activities in the transfer market we were told by Levy's adoring clan, after Levy sold Bale and other fine squad players to bring in the magnificent 7! What happened? And now many of the magnificent 7 want out. Are demanding to to be put in LOSER Levy's famous Fantasy football ENIC Auction house. Why? Every few months we get stadium updates from Levy's kiss arse crew, that the stadium is about to built. But a decade and half in Levy has not even raised the budget to build the bloody thing... Not come close to raising it, because multi billionaire tax exiles hate to borrow money from banks, unlike FA Cup winners and CL qualifier the Arsenal. Paying interest hurts! Especially when the mortgage debt will effect (hurt) the scrooges profit hugely when he sells up shortly after it is built. But of course there will be no build... Eventually big Joe will have enough off LOSER Levy's fantasy football game playing and sell the old stadium, with the planning permission to build the new stadium along with THFC and all it's football players and coaching staff to another billionaire who hopefully, DEAR GOD will not be a member of the Sugar, Levy, Lewis MAFIA, that have poisoned our great club for a quarter of a century!!! On yer tax free yacht football mercenary, and don't spare the horses...
Pele10
thfc1882whl, your last post says it all, clearly concisely and in a nut shell, and I agree with every word. I like you, can't understand how many seem to trust Levy to get it right, after all he has had 8 gos in 14 years, and has consistently got it wrong. Never mind making excuses, like the impending WC and that European seasons have just finished, if Man Utd and Barcelona can get their manager situations already sorted, whats holding Spurs back.
Frank
Frank, I was not making excuses for Levy. That is fact is it not?
MAN ON!
 

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