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The Death of the Englishman!

The Death of the Englishman!

Luke Shaw - £30m! Adam Lallana £25m! It seems pretty obvious that aside from the elite, buying the better English players is out of the question.

We have always known that buying English players came at a premium. The acceptance that they knew the language, wouldn`t (in theory) get home-sick and as a result, would be an instant fit into game pace and physicality, the dressing room and clubs culture. Lets ignore the fact that English players seem to lack the technical ability and intelligence of many foreign players, it is all a balancing act of playing safe in how you spend your money.

Problem is that would you spend 50-100% more for English than you would for a talented and established foreign import? In using Shaw and Lallana, I am accepting that they are both excellent players, but are they worth a combined £60m? Shaw could of course play 500+ games for United, get 100+ caps and prove to be a footballing legend, but is paying that much for an 18 year old simply too high?

Cristian Eriksen for £12m or Adam Lallana for £25m? I will let you decide. Probably a close call in terms of ability, but Eriksen is a few years younger, cost half the price and almost certainly earns less a week. if we are looking at new signings, what about Lallana or £15m Bayern Munich player Xherdan Shaqiri? He has already proved he can play in a foreign country and has Champions league and international experience that so far, Lallana can only dream about. Also, what are the odds that he can also speak passable English?

History is littered with over-priced players, but are we more than ever, in an age, where clubs are simply unable or unwilling to buy English players due to their cost and as a result we find ourselves with more Foreign players and more closed doors for home-grown players to develop? We can look at clubs being able to buy emerging young talent, but with the pressure to progress or at least retain your footballing level, will clubs continue to buy for today, as opposed to developing young English players?

All credit to Southampton for playing these young English talent, but they remain very much in the minority, but as long as there is such a price premium for English players, do they have a choice of about five English clubs once they leave their developing one, simply because the rest are priced out of the market? This also begs the question, as to where the game is developing. Is is a sad inevitability that clubs will remain 70% foreign and the home-grown places will be taken by make-weights? In foreign players, is it still only ever going to be a small minority that truly have an affinity to the club and fans and does this actually take the fans even further away from the club they so loyally support regardless?..



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:OxfordSpur
Date:Saturday June 28 2014
Time: 12:08PM

Comments

0
The English are getting much better technically the youngsters will come through in the meantime, how much did Southampton pay for these English players? Seems to me there is a premium for 'homegrown' as there a stipulation about how many a team must have. That to me makes Lukaku a very good option for us...
shedboy2
28/06/2014 12:20:00
0
Or should we take a punt on Connor Wickham...?
shedboy2
28/06/2014 12:22:00
0
It's a highly inflated premium for English players and completely ridiculous. Both guys, even with their age differences have only had a couple of good PL seasons. That kind of money should be paying for much more experienced and established players. PL, English or otherwise.
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 12:24:00
0
Bale was considered expensive at the time we bought him, even though he was highly rated but, was only how much? 5-8m?
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 12:28:00
0
Lets look at what kind of players the achieving clubs are buying. as in title winners, cup winners etc. we can't afford the wages fair enough, but most are foreign. tend to be better quality and cheaper. there is a better chance of finding talent abroad, and from our academy, if coached in line with first team style, than from paying double or triple the price for english players from lower leagues, or from teams lower in our league!
Dublin Hotspur
28/06/2014 12:30:00
0
Imagine how much United would have had to pay if Shaw had played for England and had a very successful World Cup run.
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 12:31:00
0
The price for Shaw is ludicuriosly extortionate - manure bought him to appease their fans anxiety as no Europe ... £120m now spent... Shaw left for the greed ... many have trodden down that road AND fallen... I do fear Shaw but I suppose the money will look after him... I totally agree with Man On! it's two very dubious pieces of business there. Soton laughing to the bank!
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 12:32:00
0
seriously, those prices for english players are just daft. and it will cause an awful rift in the league if it isn't fixed, or the homegrown rule changed. Only the big clubs (us included here I think) will be able to afford the better english players. the lower teams will either have to develop their own, ultimately to sell (Like S'Ton) or fall away completely with muck from league one! 30m£ for an 18 year old prospect?? Madness!!!
Dublin Hotspur
28/06/2014 12:34:00
0
Surely we could now put up a sneaky 5m bid in for Suarez but, throw in some free top of the range dental treatment. Or perhaps we could feed him a regular diet of meaty ex-Gooners to keep him happy.
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 12:38:00
0
erickson or lallana?thats a good one
tarkan mardinCOYS
28/06/2014 12:45:00
0
In my opinion , transfer prices in general has spiraled out of control. All these vast sums of money, whether from TV, oligarchs etc has not made the game proportionally better . Don't know where it will all end - mega stadia with only the rich able to afford it.
Durbanspur
28/06/2014 12:46:00
0
Durbanspur. Sadly, we're not far off from that scenario.
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 12:49:00
0
i can just about understand lallana but shaw?
tarkan mardinCOYS
28/06/2014 12:50:00
0
Durbanspur - I fear scenes like in the French league; empty stadiums and all experts from on line communities !!
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 12:50:00
0
durbanspur-so true sadly
tarkan mardinCOYS
28/06/2014 12:51:00
0
the richest league in the world...that's why the homegrown in that league are the most expensive, it's a double edged sword...it's also why the academies are stuffed with foreign kids, people trying to create their own homegrown out of the best 16/17 yr olds they can find...
shedboy2
28/06/2014 12:51:00
0
I also share the concern of empty Stadiums...our new one in particular! The underlying demographics of the average attendee are scary...
shedboy2
28/06/2014 12:55:00
0
If Shaw or Lallana help Man Utd and Liverpool achieve a top four finish and win the Premier League they will have will have been good value. More ludicrous sums have been paid by Chelsea and Man. City for foreign players. (Torres for example)
camper
28/06/2014 13:00:00
0
Because buying foreign players with no experience of English football was so successful for us last year wasn't it ?
jod
28/06/2014 13:05:00
0
I remember my very first game at WHL vs Sheffield United in '92 - colld, wet midweek game - sat next to a proud dad with his six year old son listening to him telling his boy about dad's memories and tales of his youth and thinking how fortunate I was to experience that! Like you guys said, sadly, days of yore!
Durbanspur
28/06/2014 13:06:00
0
camper, are you sure ? Before his transfer, Torres was an established Champions league player, an international, one of the top scorers in one of the top leagues in Europe and so on and now compare that with Shaw's and Lalana's !!!
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 13:08:00
0
Durbanspur, that still happens;
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 13:09:00
0
only English player worth anything substantial right now in my eyes is Barkley. he would be worth a punt at £25m-£30m but with these recent sales i imagine everton would turn down anything under £50m
spurs-stelios
28/06/2014 13:11:00
0
jod, changing managers and selling our best player might have something to do with it - or is that part of your selective memory syndrome ?
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 13:11:00
0
Just as in cricket, where England became a Mecca for foreign players in the 70's thru the mid 90's, and totally became devoid of top English talent. The same will happen to Football. England will become unable to field a competitive football team. This will eventually lead to more realistic quotas on foreign players but even then it will take 10 years to regain competitiveness in international football. Sad but history once again is set to repeat itself.
jvd
28/06/2014 13:12:00
0
Levy and Lewis initially paid 'just 40m' to buy out the majority of shares in THFC that they didn't own and, in turn, delist the club. I think that puts it in to perspective just how ridiculous the cost of buying a half decent player has now become.
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 13:12:00
0
spurs-stelios - why would you value Barkley highly ? Really hasn't done much to justify that - not even a full season of playing... different expectations when transferred for a huge sum...
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 13:13:00
0
And on the opposite side of the equation we see how the change in cricket has affected West Indian talent who now have little opportunity outside of home tournaments to improve their talent and thus the quality of their players has fallen tremendously. The same will happen in football but to a lesser extent.
jvd
28/06/2014 13:14:00
0
Highgatespur-- you are right on the history and reputation of Torres, But is it not probable that Shaw and Lallana will prove better buys than Torres was for Chelsea.
camper
28/06/2014 13:15:00
0
so would you take Barkley at £40m-£50m or Memphis Depay for 20m EUROS. Also factor in that the EURO to GBP exchange rate is the best it has been in for the UK for about 5 years 80.1p GBP to 1EURO 20M EURO = £16M Then why wouldnt you buy abroad this summer
spurs-stelios
28/06/2014 13:18:00
0
... Mind you, I'd bite the Hand of God off to get Bale in for a good 60m...
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 13:18:00
0
camper that is not you said / suggested ... Torres fee was determined by what he achieved BEFORE his transfer whereas what has either Shaw and Lallana achieved so far... for all we know it could go like Torres and remember Lallana is 4 years younger than Torres - similar age to Torres when transferred to Chelsea. As for Shaw - what indications are there that he will be able withstand the pressure awaiting him ? Nothing is probable in football, as I am sure you know...
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 13:22:00
0
Pay for the Southampton coaches who are producing these players and know how to pick them young then we can stay a step ahead. With the new training ground and setup if spurs cant get a player getting into the first team every year the staff are not doing there job to well get rid of them and get the best as it will be money well spent. We now have the man at the helm to start a new era,so hope this is the start of dan finally getting it right ? He as tried often enough but never succeeded.hope this is the start with poch to making this great club for us fans great for the world. To see. Coys.
bazdog
28/06/2014 13:30:00
0
Shaw have not seen much of and what i have seen i wonder what the fuss is about. Lallana could of got him when linked about 5 years ago for 2-3 m and he is still only worth that.to slow and well over rated.
bazdog
28/06/2014 13:35:00
0
OFF TOPIC

This is quite funny on Defoe
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2112755-jermain-defoe-embarrassed-after-free-kick-row-when-gilberto-scores-wonder-goal
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 13:37:00
0
bazdog makes a good point..we should be targeting the best coaches...imo that is what holds the English back...we have shhhhhh....ocking coaches and managers (and grass roots organisation) who are regularly turning a good raw product into dross...it is changing but slowly...we have Roy in charge of the national team who is approaching tournament football with a national side as though he were running a club side -with that level of buffoonery the national side stands little chance...
shedboy2
28/06/2014 14:04:00
0
shedboy2, cider and I were having the same conversation around Arch time - when we did think it was the coaches that needed transformational change at the our club... By the ed of he Uruguayan game Yoy was looking like a rabbit caught in headlights ...
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 14:13:00
0
at least with lallana he was the saints best player,shaw wasnt even in the top 5 best players
tarkan mardinCOYS
28/06/2014 14:33:00
0
Thinking about it, if we believe our defence was bad last season, then the Saints were not that much better with only 5 less goals conceded. They, just like Spurs, started the season well defensively but, it didn't last.
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 14:51:00
0
Man On! from what you're saying, does that mean Rose can be sold for £25-30m ?
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 15:02:00
0
Man on-i remember when people were referring to the best defence in europe with around 10 games gone.were they found out in the end?this is what concerns me. what comes with open attractive play is defensive frailties.hope im proved wrong
tarkan mardinCOYS
28/06/2014 15:07:00
0
£25-30m?. We could do a straight swap for Davies and maybe thrown in Soldado just to keep it fair...
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 15:07:00
0
tarkan mardinCOYS. Hopefully Poch and our defenders have learnt a few lessons and can put it right. Liverpool only conceded 1 less than Spurs but scored almost twice as many. We need putting right all over the park.
MAN ON!
28/06/2014 15:13:00
0
IMO, Lallana is terribly over-rated
Shannon
28/06/2014 15:22:00
0
lallana is a brilliant player and will fit in with the bindippers style seamlessly
tarkan mardinCOYS
28/06/2014 15:25:00
0
Ghulam must well pleased as well !
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 15:33:00
0
Highgatespur - You bring in a player from a foreign league sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it takes a season to adjust. Trying to make excuses for players who don't deliver is a recipe for failure, I've seen too much of that at Spurs. Of course a safer option is buy foreign players who have already shown they can play in the premier league, but surprise, surprise, the price generally goes up. Why you imagine selling Bale means other players under perform I don't get. The kind of player you want if you are to create a winning team would look on it as an opportunity to become the star. But I guess mental toughness and hunger are not traits we look for in players.
jod
28/06/2014 15:56:00
0
Well TBH honest Shaw is worth £30M if he fulfills his potential. He can be their 1st choice LB for 15 years
Humza_96
28/06/2014 16:12:00
0
paulinho dropped
tarkan mardinCOYS
28/06/2014 16:18:00
0
Shaw for £30m or Davies for £8m? Is shaw four times better than Davies? Not in a million years. It isn't about all British players being overpriced it's about the British players that the media get behind being overpriced. The trick is to pick the quality British players the media miss or ignore. The media want looks, stories or hobby horses they can sell stories on. They're the ones whose numbers escalate ridiculously. Ignore them and find the 'proper' British players who will do the job we need of them on the pitch. Aside from that I'm taking my nephew and youngest daughter on a stadium tour on Monday in the vain hope it will be the last time we do a tour before the new stadium build starts. It's the hope that kills you!
SpuriousLife
28/06/2014 16:20:00
0
Here's what is happening in my opinion. You get a squad allocation of 25 players with 8 of them having to be homegrown. Therefore we've ended up with all of our best 1st team except a couple being foreign and most of the bench also being foreign. The homegrown simply make up the numbers 20 to 25 in the squad and we end up giving guys like Obika new contracts. The reason is that we won't pay £20-30m for a homegrown player like Shaw or Lallana.

When we look to improve the team we find positions like centre half and left back that are constrained to buying homegrown so it's not surprising that we're after Ben Davies. If there wasn't a homegrown rule, then we may not even consider Davies and guys like Naughton would be long gone and we may have never bought Siggy who qualifies. I fully support where UEFA are going with homegrown but at the moment it's tough for Spurs. We will probably have to accept for a while longer that their could be a squad imbalance unless guys like Pritchard or Archer can compete at that level eventually. Does make you wonder why Caulker isn't still a lily-white though.
muttley
28/06/2014 16:28:00
0
Enjoy SpuriousLife ....
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 16:30:00
0
Come on Brazil!!!
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 17:01:00
0
A good article, but for balance you could quote Ozils price tag v Eriksen and even bloody Paulinhos. We also paid more for Lamela than the price on Lallana, so balance needed and a core of home grown players is important IMO. e missed that core last season and had a lack of premier league experience and winning mentality. That is why I would buy Ashley cole - that and the fact we need a left back.
Windlespur
28/06/2014 17:14:00
0
Alot of money for Shaw, but have seen him a few times this season and he is very talented and could be a top player for the next ten years or more.
Windlespur
28/06/2014 17:19:00
0
Good goal 1-0
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 17:20:00
0
Cile 1-1 bad goal to give !!
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 17:34:00
0
Hulk!!! Bad decision
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 18:18:00
0
"Hulk muscled out of it" - great commentary !!!
muttley
28/06/2014 18:28:00
0
Come on Brazil....
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 19:47:00
0
Indeed - come on Brazil !!!
muttley
28/06/2014 19:51:00
0
WOW - that was close - well played Chile!!!
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 20:01:00
0
looks like defoe is as selfish as ever, check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9K6Q2_aIT4
123spurs
28/06/2014 23:21:00
0
123 - that was posted earlier on...
Highgatespur
28/06/2014 23:52:00
0
Paulinho had his best game of the tournament tonight. After his team talk before extra time I wanted Brazil to win and it seemed to work on Hulk too. Uruguay are a One man team!
Slurms McKenzie
29/06/2014 00:07:00
0
cheers for that.
123spurs
29/06/2014 00:11:00
0
Let me know when to stop laughing Slurms... so droll....
Highgatespur
29/06/2014 00:17:00
0
Sorry highgate, but at least he showed some passion! Pity we didn't see someof that last season. The game did show that like Spurs last season there is big problems in midfield as none of the replacements did any better either!
Slurms McKenzie
29/06/2014 00:20:00
0
Slurms sorry I didn't express myself too well .... meant to mean he was never given that chance last year - I reckon his confidence was torn to shreds and he wasn't able to contribute to the team at any significant level - hopefully he'll see more of him ned year with more urgency /nrg!!! Apologies again
Highgatespur
29/06/2014 00:38:00
0
I suppose its a positive for Pochettino that so many of the players are starting this season with a very low expectation level. Egos must have taken some hammering as well so it maybe easy to get the squad on board with his philosophy and any improvement in performances will win over the fans. I am concerned that we have appointed another coach / manager that has to win over the fans though.
Slurms McKenzie
29/06/2014 00:48:00
0
We just need to make sure that Paulinho cares as much for Spurs as he clearly does for Braizil. Even sitting on the bench and playing no part in the game itself he was still the biggest motivator for his team-mates when it came to penalties. That shows the character of the guy.

My guess is that Pochettino is hugely excited about having someone with the talent and personality of Paulinho in his ranks. He's already observed how Paulino dealt publicly with Sherwood last season when he wanted to use him as a scapegoat. His public statements were professional and informed as opposed to the shooting from the hip we saw from our so called manager.

Forget his Annus Horribillus, no doubt in my mind we have a huge talent in Paulinho for next season.
muttley
29/06/2014 01:15:00
0
slurms if the players start with low expectations....they'll achieve them!...having a new guy should give them a lift, keep the better players and inject a couple of quality additions they'll try and compete...lose the best and add a few journeymen or 'ones for the future' and mid table here we come....
shedboy2
29/06/2014 09:31:00
0
how long is that poll going to stay up for? when MoPo was appointed less than half wanted him...good to see he's garnering support when there isn't a choice but it'll never get up to 100%...;)
shedboy2
29/06/2014 09:34:00
0
stats, stats and more stats.......and while 'almost the same' seems good.....the difference between success and failure at the highest level is fractions..of a second, a width of a post etc...re: the price that varies on age, current contract and who else wants to buy etc etc...
shedboy2
29/06/2014 10:49:00
0
Is "being English" the only home country that counts in FIFA rules? What about Welsh, Scottish or Irish players? I do know about the "bringing foreign players over young" to bypass the regulation but does that include our GB friends?
longtimespur
29/06/2014 11:12:00
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