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If Only We Have Hindsight?

So the inevitable article about what to expect of this season has reared its ugly head in my mind. I cant seem to get it out of there and that is where I have trouble.

There is a difference between where I want the club to be, where the club actually is and what we can expect from the club, manager and players this season. I`ll start at the beginning. I want the club challenging at the top of the league year in, year out. Winning trophies regularly and playing the biggest clubs in Europe in the biggest competitions consistently. One day, maybe. When we have the right infrastructure behind the club to support that kind of activity, which I believe we aren't a million miles away from.

The club has consistently finished between 4th and 7th since the Martin Jol years and I see no reason why this season is going to be any different. We have one of the strongest squads in the league and are not likely to usurp the likes of Chelsea and City any time soon and in recent times are in the mix with Liverpool, Arsenal and Man U but tend to come up short across a whole season. This is based on the past few seasons and not isolated to last season.

So what do I expect from us this year. I try to be as objective as I possibly can and so remove the fine details that make our club Tottenham Hotspur and look at what we should expect. We are a club coming off the back of a very tumultuous campaign featuring two different managers both of which are now not with the club. So the club is adjusting to a new Coach with a completely new coaching staff. It looks like we will be making around 4 signings and moving some players out completely and others out on loan. So the playing staff is remaining fairly stable and remains very high in quality and the depth of that quality remains equally high.

At board level things are very stable and everyone knows what to expect from them. A club in that state I would expect to have a year of stabilising and getting used to the new managers methods. Maintaining their previous position and producing the new coach's style. Anything above and beyond that would be a bonus.

So when you add the little details back in I would expect us to have some good cup runs, produce a much more easy-on-the-eye attacking style of football and still mixing it with the big boys but I would say 5th or 6th is about right. Anything else is a bonus. Do I believe this squad is capable of getting top 4 or winning a cup? Absolutely they are certainly talented enough on paper. But do I EXPECT that this season. No. What do you want to happen this season? What do you expect to happen this season?

Written by Greekos




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The journalist

Writer: Greekos Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Wednesday July 30 2014

Time: 10:22AM

Your Comments

Someone to buy superglue and use it. Before the cracks set in.
82spursdebut
I expect nothing but the best a man can get.
MAN ON!
City first, Chelsea, Arsenil and then one of United Liverpool or us. Its hard to know which of United Liverpool or Spurs go into this seaon in a worse position. Liverpool have lost their "Bale" and won't replace him nor replicate their form from last season add inot the mix the Champions league games and I think they'll struggle this season. United are in a shambles, 27 million for a young fat lad, No proper CBs, very light weight midfield, the eggshell Ego of Wayne Rooney and the delicate fitness of RVP plus LVG my way or the highway appraoch could see it all end in tears for the red devils againt his seaosn. Spurs might be the biggest enigma of the lot, When everyone is fit we have a very decent squad, but when have we ever had everyone fit. Last season, even with the management upheavel most of the squad did a good impression of a team with football amnesia! we should be the most settle of the three squads but we also are heading into the new seaosn with big question marks over alot of our players plus the new guy who is stepping up to a higher expectation level. At this stage I'm going to say Spurs fourth United 5th and Liverpool 6th!
Slurms McKenzie
Win the europa league and we have CL qualification. gotta be an incentive to go for it in that competition as i cant see us finishing above Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool. Also does anyone know what happens if for example Liverpool win the champions league and finish 5th, Spurs win the Europa League and finish 6th because the top 4 all qualify for CL as well regardless if a team outside the top 4 wins and qualifies and champions. Could we see 6 PL teams qualify???? unlikeley i know but is it possible????
spurs-stelios
Until the transfer window closes, it is too hard to call. I foresee us missing out on a world class player on deadline day - because that's the way that we roll! I reckon 6 of the current roster to be gone by deadline day with maybe 3 additions on top of the couple we now have. I see us finishing sixth again but pushing all the way in the Europa cup. Last eight in the other cups barring being drawn away to any club above 7 th in the league. I hope to see our worst defeat limited to 2 goals. I suggest run this poll again on 1st of September!
scoops50
What I expect - top 7. What I would love - top 4 and/or silverwear. What I'll be happy with - Top 6, 2 good cup runs (semis), a striker scoring 18+ in the league, fast attractive football, and for there to be no talk whatsoever of Pochettinos job stability......Not asking much am I?!
King26
If the fifth place team wins CL then 4th placed team drops out!
scoops50
Slums - I hope you're right!!!
King26
King 26 I wouldn't have thopught so and all those should be fairly attainable with our current squad!
Slurms McKenzie
TOP FOUR!!! It's out time again. Lamela, Eriksen , Townsend, Lennon, Soldado, Ade . If we get good seasons from this lot of exciting talent and bring in one or two more face before West Ham game then I think we have (as usual) a great chance of top four!! COYS
willfry
Probably agree with your expectations. 5th or 6th place with a good cup run (im talking about making it to a final !) and giving it a good go in Europe. I know there are some decent teams in the EL especially when the CL dropouts come in but I think that is our best shot at CL footy for next year. Breaking into the top 4 is getting harder and harder and I just donít see it as a realistic target this year, therefore if we want CL footy we need to win the EL and I think we have the depth of squad to maintain a 5th / 6th finish in the league and focus on the cups / EL

There is a lot of work to be done at spurs, and I hope that MP can achieve his goals and get the best out of the players. I love his enthusiasm saying that his target over the next few years is to WIN the Premier League but he has to understand we are never going to do it with the likes of Dawson at CB and Soldado and Kane up front. To win the league means getting players like the Hazzardís and Augeroís that we just never seem to be able to pull in. We can take our time, develop the youth, gel as a squad etc but ultimately if you want to win the PL you need to invest in the squad and bring in at least 2 or 3 world class players. We are Waaayyyy off at the minute.
hudderspur
My hope is West Ham struggle On with BFS at the helm until we give them a right good stuffing!
Slurms McKenzie
King26... NO!
MAN ON!
We finished 10 points behind 4th place. So using last season as a marker, we have to improve our point total by at least 15%. Is our squad any better than last season? We shall see, however everyone else is improving their squad, so the gap in reality is already increasing. Wehen we look at the last few seasons, we could have finished 4th more than we did. Now, however, it will be more difficult than ever.
vicspur
I can see the weaknesses at Old Trafford being minimised due to the tactual acumen of LVG, whilst the bindippers had other players scoring goals and they may have strengthened but they may well have injuries. Unfortunately the other three just look stronger!
scoops50
spurs-stelios see this link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/10076205/England-could-be-awarded-five-spots-in-the-Champions-League-from-2015.html
In-spurs-ational
vicspur.. It's not our squad that needs major improvement it's the football itself that needs to step up a notch or two.
MAN ON!
In a nut shell, the most number of teams any country can have in the Champions League is five. Winners of the Europa league and champions league are "guaranteed" spots in the following seasons champions league
In-spurs-ational
Don't want to put too much pressure on the lad, as last season was so poor (for everyone, not just him)...but Lamela.....If he can play well consistently, and chip in with 10, 12 goals from off the right, he could be the difference between 6th & 4th. I am keeping everything crossed that he delivers this year. I think the loving arm MoPo has round him, all the Spurs Social Media sites bigging him up, it could be just what he needs......come on Erik, I know you can do it!
King26
Liverpool will also miss the chaos that Suarez caused in oppsoition defenses. He had a few assists but he also created a huge amount of space for others to exploit they have recruited players but they haven't really improved in my opinion. United are still in a shambles and tactical acumen means very little if the ability of the players is lacking. Which means united still have to go on a spending spree just to have a balanced team to take the field ont eh first day of the season. Then gelling and that other nonsense comes into it. And if they keep recruiting players from summer fat camps then they won't see they play this side of christmas!
Slurms McKenzie
What this means is that we will finish fourth with Man Utd finishing fifth (and winning the champions league) and Arsenal finishing sixth (and winning the Europa league).
In-spurs-ational
Ecerything!? King as long as they are crossed and not twisted you should be fine!!
Slurms McKenzie
In-spurs at least we know that can't possibly happen United aren't in the champions league!!
Slurms McKenzie
haha! Everything barring those!!!
King26
I don't subscribe to the view that Liverpool will struggle, not with their outstanding coach/manager, their squad strength, and the 12th man effect of their crowd in home games. Yes they lost Suarez, but they have another 20+ goal striker from last season in Sturridge. Utd won't struggle, LVG doesn't do struggles, he is one of the world's great coaches, he will sort them out, and they may yet buy another 1 or 2 before deadline. City, Chelsea, Arsenal, are all bankers for the top 4, so realistically we can only hope to stay as we are. To do so we still need to address our glaring weaknesses particularly at CB, and up front, the primary causes of our abysmal +4 GD figures from last season, which if replicated this season, could cost us even 6th place.
Frank
Well king if we don't finish in the champions league with at least two trophies in the cabinet we'll know who to blame for his lack of commitment!!!
Slurms McKenzie
5th or 6th is my expectation but stranger things have happened in football like Greece winning the Euro or Liverpool coming close to winning the league. So if we get a good cup run, get to a final or achieve 4th and playing good football I would be very happy man. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
i would settle for top 17.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Slurms, you spotted my deliberate mistake :)
In-spurs-ational
I expect us to beat West ham this year! I do not expect us to be humiliated by anyone! I expect us not to spend any real money on transfers (although want otherwise!), I expect us to start the season with the 6th best squad(fingers crossed we improve though)... so any lower and Poch isn't doing us any favours, higher and he's over achieving...As for hindsight, what we really need is some foresight....why oh why Brad is taking up a valuable place in our squad I have no idea? take it off him and promote Archer..Brad can still train and be an ambassador...he won't play any way...that'll free up a homegrown place...and get the players in before the season kicks off - will we ever learn!
shedboy2
a.k.a.james1spurs... Or Andros and Aaron scoring well taken goals......
MAN ON!
Liverpool imploded towards teh end of their seasona dn then sold their best player and bought in a truck load of names without really improving anywhere or even tryign to repalce some of suarez's goals. Rodgers had a good season when all he had to conentrate on were more or less forty games. United are in big trouble Frank and LVG has a massive task on his hands unfortunately for them LVG won't be takign the field in any of their matches and he will have to rely on the "talent" available to him. They will struggle. It will be a fairly close contest between Us United and Liverpool for that fourth spot we'll be about 10 points behind third! Everton will have a say but Southampton won't take poitns off many team sthis season!
Slurms McKenzie
tarkan mardinCOYS, things aren't looking good, we're currently 18th http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tables
In-spurs-ational
A good starting point Garry, come on the bit O'Red!
Slurms McKenzie
To be honest anything above 15th after the first game will be an improvement!
Slurms McKenzie
The games against the top four teams will allow us to see exactly what we are, and what we are not, capable of.
Geofspurs
King26 ... Your first post echoes my sentiments entirely.
Geofspurs
yep LvG - is bang in trouble...;)..really? he does have quite a good bunch to work with, a board that will give him funds to improve and a track record to suggest he can ride out the tough times and succeed....however look at us...have we increased our goals? have we a board that will give funds to a manager? does our new manager have a track record of success?...at the moment we can only look through the squads and see who looks to have the best and guess from there but there are a lot variables that can push that one way or the other...
shedboy2
It seems as though some THFC supporters have pretty much written the season off already because we arenít going to get top 4 and CL next year. If thatís the only thing that gets them excited then I suggest they try another team! It is going to be a bloody hard season! CAN we finhs in the top 4? Of course we can. We have a good overall squad and a decent manager (I hope). WILL we finish in the top 4? Most likely not, because the other 4 or 5 teams above us also have very good squads and decent managers

All I want for this season is to get back to enjoying football and enjoying watching spurs. Im sick of the 4-5 goal thrashings, the boring football, giving a every team we play a goal head start, the constant want for a new manager, the whole ďlife is over because ewe will finish 5thĒ talk on the forums. I just want a season where we play good football, compete as best we can and try and bring some silverware to the lane. I donít really care what position we finish TBH.
hudderspur
Even them scoring MAN ON! :) COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Agree with Frank. I think the lack of a goalscorer will cost us plus this is in effect Poch's second season in the EPL and other coaches will know what to expect from his team...there were signs of this last season towards the end. I like what I have seen so far but feel it is too lightweight with no end product. I just hope we produce better performances against the so-called top teams, including stuffing Arsenal a couple of times would do me for the season. Unreasonable to expect much else in my opinion.
Harry-Kari
I just want all the lads to be jolly. To play with a smile and a skip in their step but, most of all, I want them to entertain us with some really nice football. I want them to forget about all that nasty money stuff, shrug off that burden of fear and pressure and..... mow down every god damn son of a gun in site! Mopo is a Mofo, la la la la, hey!
MAN ON!
tarkan ... lol, I agree, that's always the bottom line!
Geofspurs
im not sure everything will be hunky dawry at manure as others seem to believe.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Sorry to go off topic but there are some twitter rumours of a bust up at the Southampton training ground today. could be nothing but you never know
DoncasterHotspur
Whatever happens this season, history tells us that there is always one or two surprises. I hope we are one of them ... and in a good way!
Geofspurs
Sorry to go off topic but there are some twitter rumours of a bust up at the Southampton training ground today. could be nothing but you never know
DoncasterHotspur
So Lamela doesn't count as a goal scorer despite his blestering start to pre-season? Why are some of us so depressed in the middle of pre-season when we are undefeated and recruiting players? I want to live in Hudderspur's world where we play a good brand of competitve football and we only loose games because the other team was better and deserved it not because we were awful! The leageu positions, Trophies and glory will follow once we settle ona manager who is allowed to manage the team to these things. Of course it would take a minor miracle for Pochettino to achieve these in his first season but as Man On alluded to football is a fickle mistress!
Slurms McKenzie
I can't honestly see Liverpool struggling. Whilst they will suffer from losing the fear factor that goes hand-in-hand with having an unhinged Uruguayan goal-machine/vampire as top boy, they still have oodles of quality. If they can add one more solid CB, then they should be top four. City and Chelsea are nailed on, and so there is one spot of for grabs. And as things currently stand, I can't decide on who I think will nab it. We can make arguments both for and against Man Utd, ourselves, our un-mentionable neighbours, and also Everton. I don't believe that any of the above have finished/will finish their transfer business pre-season, and so it's up in the air. Long story short, I've rambled on a bit and I haven't got a clue!! What do I want/expect? I want us to win the league, and I expect Lamela to have doubled his price tag by this time next year!! Come on you beautiful Spurs!!!
LilyWhiteHart
DDoncaster ... there arenít too many left to bust so it must have been a fairly subdued affair!
Geofspurs
I echo the 'compete as best we can' sentiment but that applies off as well as on the pitch for me...and that's when the frustration sets in....seeing a smug face taking millions out of the club whilst watching make do players and managers being humiliated on the pitch...people screaming that the players 'get paid a fortune but don't try' need to raise their heads a little and see where it stems from....so will it be 'Audere-est-Facere' or 'a day late and a dollar short'? over to you Levy....
shedboy2
Doncaster apparently Pochettino was so loved at Southampton that they commissioned a cast of his head and the bronze statue has been erected up today, hence the "bust up at Southampton" headlines
Slurms McKenzie
Spurs! Aim to reduce goals conceded, by at least 10-15, and aim to score more goals. Drop points as all clubs do, but so that draws result. Tighten everything that needs it, and concentrate for the 90 minutes+. What has been encouraging so far, is the calmer, happier atmosphere, and a bench that has staff neither uptight nor nutty. I'd still give them time to get it right, but I like directions taken so far.
Airwave
Tarkan, I agree with you re United. It is not a forgone conclusion that they'll be back amongst the title contenders. LVG is under HUGE pressure to deliver. They are in a rebuild mode, new manager, new 'philosophy' (LoL!)......May be we can send them all our leftover gel....never freekin worked for us anyway! COYS!
Critical_Spur
Airwave. Just wait. The season ain't started yet. If MP isn't just a little uptight when we're 3 nil down to WHU at half-time, I'll want to know why.
MAN ON!
We're joint top at the moment, we can only take it one game at ta time and if we get more poitns then the rest we'll wint eh leageu but at this stage its all to play for. we haven't lost a game in the 2014-15 season and we haven't conceded a league goal yet. Things are looking good!!
Slurms McKenzie
The two early goals at West Ham will really knock the stuffing out of them and the crowd will turn on their manager. I hope we don't see some rash tackles flying in from frustration with injuries doing damage to our season. I hope West Ham have the good grace to loose with dignity. 4-0
Slurms McKenzie
The only way is up.... or down... Sideways?
MAN ON!
WHU owes us one. Big Sam seems a generous man to me.
MAN ON!
What about forwards or backwards or does the third demension frighten you that much Man On!!
Slurms McKenzie
Critical ... I agree with you re United. I think their biggest problem will be how the players react to the managerís ego. LVG will not be happy if United arenít mixing it for a top four place ... the pressure, and his ego, could see him reacting in a way that creates bad feeling from his players. Of course, this may not happen, but I hope United have a relatively poor start to the season just to make it interesting and to see what the consequences are!
Geofspurs
Can't rule out another Chelsea implosion!
Slurms McKenzie
Slurms ... thatís what I love about stats because the same stats tell us we have not won a game and we have not scored any goals! Stats are awesome ... and totally useless!!
Geofspurs
So we now know we have expectations of varying degrees on here about Spurs prospects in the coming season, some will have over estimated some will have under estimated but I for one intend to be insufferiably smug if my predictions are proven correct.
Slurms McKenzie
I start getting confused Slurms.. I go all AVB and insert in on myself to the point that my knees go all trembly and I'm doing a Sandro all over the pitch. (Throwing up, not getting booked).
MAN ON!
Onderign the same thing Totties10! its nto on any ITV channel
Slurms McKenzie
Good point Man On, another hope of mine is to never see the word "inverted" associated with any Spurs player this season!!!!
Slurms McKenzie
The problem is that yes we want our club to be challenging and winning things, but so do Chelsea fans, Everton fans, Hull fans, Exeter fans etc... Everyone cannot be up there competing. To me, all you cannot expect is movement in the right direction - or at least hanging on in there. I believe that we are doing that. Set backs happen, and it would be unrealistic to not expect those as well. We had some setbacks last season. Hopefully this time we get a clear run. From a platform of 6th place last season, I expect no less than that. With some momentum, 5th place is definitely achievable. With some luck and shwred additions before the season starts - or perhaps in Jan, we could be competing for 4th. There is a lot of untapped potential in the squad. If it comes out, we could be quite good. Another key area is how we manage the cup competitions. AVB was usually playing most of the first team, and at times it affected the league form. Previous regimes played 100% kids and fringe which affects ability to win things and gain momentum in the cups. Up to Poch to see how he can manage it.
TonyRich
Hindsight was a good young prospect and could have been a real contender. A Spurs legend. Instead, he sat on the bench out on loan at Birmingham for 5 years...
MAN ON!
schneirderlin hands in a transfer request.
tarkan mardinCOYS
City, Chelsea and Arsenal will all make the top four. Liverpool, despite all their signings, might struggle with extra European games and no Suarez. Coversely United have the big advantage of no European football, just as liverpool had last season, so I wouldn't be surprised if they get the fourth place. As for us, the article says it all "The club has consistently finished between 4th and 7th since the Martin Jol years", yet every year we pretend a change of manager will change everything. We'll grind out another meaningless europa campaign, miss out on the top four again, end up in te europa again and then moan about how unlucky we were.
jod
Sorry folks, I do expect CL qualification -any which way how !!! This is a must !
Highgatespur
Frank I must say that's not a surprise you thinking that about L'pool - anything not Spurs will shine, aye ? Lol
Highgatespur
We need to revenge on the clubs that humiliated us last season.. starting at West Ham !! Then Win at Le Arse, Bindippers..Man Chitty then MP will be a hero of WHL...COYS
Block D Spurs
I've just looked on wiziwig and the Celtic match is listed on their schedule. So there will be some live internet streaming of the game.
MAN ON!
Is no one here fool enough to commit to winning the PL this season?
Falstaff the Fool
I always put a fiver on Spurs winning the PL...
MAN ON!
Spurs will win the PL this season. Off to be committed now.
In-spurs-ational
Im afraid at the moment all I can hope for is best of the rest.
spurgatso
Im afraid at the moment all I can hope for is best of the rest.
spurgatso
@spurgatso,


I'm afraid. At this stage of my life, all I can hope for is the best rest. I'm afraid. At this stage of my life, all I can hope for is the best rest.

Falstaff the Fool
Who would have given Liverpool a chance of winning the EPL, only to fail 2 games from the end...?
TonyRich
HOPE, win the prem. win against so called bigger teams regularly. HOPE NOT get demoted. Get beat by more than two goals in one game. As a spurs fan HOPE is all we got.coys
bazdog
Erik Faith, Bobby Hope and Christian Charity is all we need. Pochettino has Jesus by his side and miracles galore to pray for.
MAN ON!
@bazdog,


If as Spurs fans all we got is HOPE, then I hope for the signing of the famous box-to-box MF player, Pandora. I understand that Pandora's skills are being wasted playing for some obscure Greek club. Pandora is sure to bring in a new beginning. Always does.

Falstaff the Fool
Thinking inside the box...... I like it.
MAN ON!
Are Southampton getting any backlash from their fans at losing so many players (that would be understandable) ... if so they might want Sch to push for a transfer so that the club can say he forced their hand?!
Geofspurs
pool panic buying again, would they have bought so many players if they kept luiz.
123spurs
And drawing while keeping the crayon within the lines. No throw ins.


The season hasn't started. The signing window hasn't closed. A new hope is our manager. Undefeated and drawless (although we didn't drop our draws in public) we were in a trip to North America. This is the season not to think of mediocrity or despair. The future is only a dream and we might as well dream dreams of glory. We are THFC. To dare is to do. So let me not hear more of an upcoming season is 6th place, or making it to the semifinals of some cup competition. Have we forgotten our audacious history? Dare, do, glory. Nothing in that bespeaks of dreaming of a mid-table finish to a year that is yet to be. If you want to spread seeds of bewilderment or of despair or of doubts, visit vital Rs (pronounce the sound of the letter R followed by a hissing sound).

Falstaff the Fool
I want us to win the league, maybe not this season but just once while I am a ticket holder would make me happy. Don't care about top 4, getting that could only ever be considered a stepping stone and not a final destination - it is a chance to win the champions league, nothing else.

This season as high up the league as possible and either the FA or Europa Cup would be a good achievement.
T.H.F.Chris
On TalkSh*t they have now stated Morgan hasn't handed in a transfer request. Who knows. I would like 4th, but would accept 6th if we are playing entertaining football and you can see a continued gradual improvement throughout the season. COYS
Chelmspur
Falstaff the Fool- to dare is to do?....best we start doing something! as I said on another thread our motto should be 'a day late and dollar short'....
shedboy2
If you mean Arse, the Fool, then why not just say it?
MAN ON!
Shedboy, I like that 'a day late and dollar short' It always seems to be us, by all accounts the 2 Southampton boys deals were done and Southampton chairman at last minute panicked about the bad press and pulled the plug. So Liverpool, Man U and Ars* get their boys and we get bug*er all. You do wonder if the club is cursed.
Chelmspur
Cautiously optimistic and happy to be the underdog. Seriously hoping we can stay under the radar if I'm honest. Also, totally agree with the comments that we need the transfers to be completed first. We also need Poch to have more time with his players before we make predictions and set stupid expectations.
muttley
What I expect- Top 5 finish. A domestic cup final appearance. An attractive brand of football played, with lots of incisive/ clever movement in an around the oppositions final third. No capitulations. 15+ goals from Soldado (if he's still with us) failing that 20 plus goals from W.Bony (please sign him DL). I don't want much just to be able watch spurs and smile again! COYS
LongTimeSpursFan64
Yes absolutely - Levy has heavily invested and will continue to do so as best as possible so Pochettino is happy. This is important so we strengthen and get better. We are keeping our depth in squad to compete on more than one front, and so that we donít burn players out. Itís always going to be tricky to break in to the title challenging positions but I think it is there for the taking, but we are improving, and will smash it soon. CL league please, highest league finish possible and a trophy. Iíve got every faith that we are going in the right direction. Cheers for the article. COYS.
SpursOne2
"Falstaff the Fool- to dare is to do?....best we start doing something! as I said on another thread our motto should be 'a day late and dollar short'....," shedboy2


The expression "to dare is to do" seems to imply that doing follows from daring, no? all this talk about midtable mediocrity isn't very daring, after all. In which case, we won't ever do. Anyway, the future as of now is merely a dream. Might as well have some big dreams as some dreams of mediocrity. Let's be of foolish good cheer, not of morose misgivings over past disappointments. A new day is here with new cheer. Cheer up, lads. (I'm only fulfilling the job of a fool here.)

Falstaff the Fool
Falstaff the Fool.. Well, you cheered me up. Not that I need it right now in a hot and sunny London.
MAN ON!
Pochettino, Rodgers and Martinez have never managed in four competitions before. They could all be found way out of depth. LVG is a proven winner. I don't know that any of his previous teams have been so poor when he has come in and he has never done this in the PL where 6 good teams vie for four spots. It's going to be interesting. I still think talent wise, we are up there. We have a coach who has never gotten a team higher than 8th despite over 200M of talent on the pitch on any given date. Lot of unknowns and that will make it all interesting. I just hope we get in to the group stages of Europa. If not, this season will be a disaster. COYS
peterballb
"If you mean Arse, the Fool, then why not just say it?," MAN ON!


The job of a Fool sometimes is to speak in riddles, no? or to make the obvious less so. To be direct isn't so foolish, is it? The Fool takes the listener's ear off the obvious and into something unexpected. One can always ignore the rantings of a Fool, after all, and go directly to reading those who pepper the pages instead with insults. Comic relief instead of hostile insults, mates. Not all threads need be lines with the deadly serious.

Falstaff the Fool
Europa League (CL entry) & FA Cup double - some nice days out there, silverware & decent football hopefully. I really want to see more of a backbone to this team - funnily, Rodrigues & Schneiderlin both have that 110% commitment factor that some of our team lack at times. We need to bring in a Leader, a CB with drive.
Windlespur
will be interesting to see whether spurs can actually fight for top 4 this season just talk about it as usual..hopefully my team liverpool wont " do a Spurs " this season..hehe..
I Bling Red
SpursOne2-'Levy has heavily invested and will continue to do so as best as possible so Pochettino is happy' wow that made me smile...if you mean he recycles money so be it but he doesn't give his managers a transfer budget to spend....Falstaff the Fool- we're neither daring nor doing....
shedboy2
Muttley expectations are never stupid - especially when paying the highest prices in the country !!!
Highgatespur
"Falstaff the Fool- we're neither daring nor doing....," shedboy2


You've understood my point, then.

Falstaff the Fool
I meant every word I said shedboy2 Ė Yes he does, we invest pretty much each yearÖand Iím sure itís from a budget and not say Lewisís car ashtray for example? I'm not sure why you keep denying that but glad Iím raised a smile fella, thatís always a bonus. COYS.
SpursOne2
pretty true..dear god you sours fans pay crazy prices for your season tickets..over £1800 !!!!. By far the most in the country..what is the justification for paying so much?..and where would you spurs fans would say that money is going?
I Bling Red
sours = spurs
I Bling Red
Ah Cl qualification for winning the Europa. Itís tough when the other teams drop in (still a ***** rule if you ask me) but Iím sure itís going to have a knock on effect. Wonder how that pans out Ė Yeah we should probably go for that and the Prem. Want to win it all, but priorities will be there and rightly soÖwant to hear what Poch thinks. COYS
SpursOne2
Cheaper tickets would be ******** awesome it's becoming a joke. We should be doing our damnedest to make things affordable, not just WHL but everywhere, get the stadiums filled. COYS.
SpursOne2
SpursOne2- we've made a few mill or so (so far) in this window...if that's what you mean by 'investing'...then yes Levy is getting a pretty penny in return but it's not going on the team...he hasn't put a single penny of season ticket money into transfers for years, we are 19th on the list of net investors in our team over the past 5 years...I thought you'd be happy with that but then I read you want cheaper tickets...
shedboy2
Bling Red - in fairness, those are the most expensive season tickets, there are cheaper options available, they don't all cost £1800.
vicspur
http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fans-to-march-for-affordable-football-for-all-on-14th-august
SpursOne2
Sheboy2 - We invest in new players to strengthen our squad pretty much every year, very heavily last year, i really don't want to jump back on that round about with you because i don't fully agree with what you are putting forward...i think we have tried to discuss this a few times. I will think about what you have said in this post some more though. And we need to Invest in a few more players this year imo for us to really be covered but that will depend on some other factors. Cheers mate. COYS.
SpursOne2
Much like you Greekos, I would live to finish top 4, win the fa cup and/or the european trophy. Is it possible, yes. Do I expect, no. As long as we can beat some of those above us this season in one of games, that would make me happy...
thfc1989
SpursOne2- agree we need a couple more players this year...trouble is Levy sells our best players (so players to the sames or greater value) to pay for them...we'll see if he breaks with the last 5 years tradition...I wouldn't bet on it...
shedboy2
Shedboy2, yes, we make a small profit or suffer a small loss every year. There is no magic pot of gold out there that has been squirrelled away. 2012-2013 we made 4M GBP. That was the profit on the playing side of THFC. I can see where some might think that that money could get us Messi, but I think it might be a tad shy on the 250M GBP transfer fee and the 350k/week salary. Then again, the criticisms seem to be all based on smoke and mirrors. Our turnover is in the 150M GBP range. Salaries sit at about 67% of turnover. These are normal healthy numbers. Beyond expecting the ownership group to spend like it is a play toy and not a business, what are your expectations? We have the 6th highest turnover, pay the 6th most in wages and have finished 6th or better every year in recent memory and have been in Europe 8 of the last 9 seasons (I think - if not it's 7 of 8). We have, on a resource based basis, overachieved. Could we and should we have done better? YES. Should ENIC allow their managers to do what they hired them to do? YES. But then there is the Spurs dichotomy, which I have again read here today. I'd rather finish outside of Europe so long as the football is entertaining. This is where sport and entertainment get confused. Sport is supposed to be about excelling. There are no points for style in football, so it is, table wise and results wise, irrelevant how it looks. You either win or you lose. Had Liverpool won last season, they would have made far more money. 2nd sounds lovely, but it comes with nothing. Holding up the trophy is what it is about. If you can do it with style, so much the better. But the goal is to win. That is all we should be aiming for. To do that you must hire managers who have a pedigree of winning and you need character players that have a pedigree of winning. We hired a purported developer of young players. That's what we are striving for. Yippee Ki Yay. May work. Stranger things have happened. Odds are not on our side though. Odds are pretty good that the team will not spend more than they make. That, you can bank on. COYS
peterballb
The world cup players and Ade are all back in training.
Kong
Shedboy2, I appreciate your 'bee in the bonnet' argument about Levy recycling money. Definitely can't argue with that. But to be fair, he's not exactly pocketing every penny made from transfer either. Recycling is probably an ideal business model. In any event, the swapping and changing of squad (freshening up if you like) is a must else we stay static. Every manager has been backed so far, albeit via recycling. Some players WANTED to leave, so no choice there. Then the new manager has to apply his touches to the squad (ins/outs). If that can be achieved by balancing the books, I am happy with that. Sure, the occasional dipping in one's pocket would've served us well at the strategic times. But I am NOT unhappy about the business model. We have progressed under this regime and let's hope with Poch, we can get to challenging despite how the transfer kitty is assembled. I am sure there is any element of 'risk averse' with ENIC, especially learning from their previous experiences. COYS!
Critical_Spur
Every club sells their best players if the players want out and the valuation is met. The difference in our position (as compared to Chelsea, City and United) is that we do not pay the highest (or even close) wages and we are not in the reckoning for the title and the CL title. Teams like Chelsea, City and United pay the wages and will always be in the mix. Arsenal have sold all of their top players too. Liverpool just sold theirs. Bale wanted out. He was sold when the valuation was met. Same for Modric. Same for Carrick. Same for Keane. Same for Berbatov. Not one of these sales was initiated by the club. In each case the player wanted out. It's not like we have a for sale sign on any of our star players and it's not like Sunderland will be priding Lloris away tomorrow.. When our star players want out it is because they expect wages we will not pay and to move to teams that have players all around them earning similar amounts. We reportedly offered Bale 180k/week to try to get him to stay. He is reportedly on over 225k/week plus gets sponsorship and naming rights at RM. That is likely more than our top three players earn weekly within a sustainable economic model. The new stadium will bridge part of the gap to Arsenal. Just part. It'll be further ahead of the 7th best resources in the league but will still be well off the 5th. Reality. All of Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal will struggle to keep their top players. COYS
peterballb
peter- please we de-listed so that we can show a small profit or loss on accts every year...they are far from transparent. I notice you were unable to answer the question where the 70m debt appeared from the year before last? but hey we don't mind paying 6m interest do we? we couldn't have used that on players now could we? from what I can tell good job we moved a parcel of land and wiped most of it off..yes our wages are c65%pa....what have we done with the other 35% pa for the past 5 years? 'We have the 6th highest turnover, pay the 6th most in wages' so why spend like we're the 19th poorest in the league?...seems to me our resources are being used to fund a build that will earn ENIC eye watering profit...and all of that will be paid for by THFC....what we do know is that we are not backing the managers with any money over what they can raise through selling....let's see if Levy can actually use THFC revenue for the benefit of the team this year...
shedboy2
Sport IS about excelling but it is also entertainment. It's not one or the other. Of course it's better to win than not to but, I want to have a bloody good time watching it happen. Victory is not the be all and end all for me. However, I don't expect a Gazza or Hoddle in every position, I also want fight, guts and a determination to win. A combination of the two is enough for me, win lose or draw. A winners mentality and a flair for the beautiful game, no less. (When was the last time Stoke City won anything)? We have spent the last couple of years boring the fans and losing. I'd rather win and not be bored but I will never pay to regularly watch Spurs park the bus, when it will cost me F all to watch paint dry. Up the Spurs and football... for footballs sake... There's a very good reason why Messi will cost you a hell of a lot more money than Neuer.
MAN ON!
The Sky income goes up and up, the ticket prices go up and up. I'm sure player salaries don't go up proportionately and we have had a net income on transfer fees in the last five years. How come we are showing such small profits each year. There must be some clever accountants at work making sure we don't show the real profits!
DoncasterHotspur
Peterballb. Why do u keep putting liverpool in your bracket? Other than Suarez who have liverpool struggled to keep?. Torres was *****ed and livepool new it so big boss j henry ripped off chelsea because hes a business man and new chelsea would be dumb enough to buy caroll for us plus 15 mill on top. Granted caroll was crap. Suarez was sold because he was banned til november. Wouldve been dumb to keep him. No liverpool fan wanted him to sit on the bench til november. Plain dumb. Had to go. If suarez wanted to go but was not banned Liverpool wouldve made him stay whether he wanted to or not and you know this. We dont sell our top players unless they cant serve and benefit us which is what wouldve been the case with suarez. Tottenham are raped of their best players even when they are able to play for tottenham. Thats the difference. No way are pool in tottenhams category in any sense of the word. Wage wise we are out of your league stadium wise trophywise out of your league and competitive wise at the top end of the league we are not in the same bracket. You are only as good as your last season.
I Bling Red
new = knew
I Bling Red
Are we not in the process of building a state of the art Stadium shortly after building a state of the art training complex? These are not gifts from a secret admirer. A hell of a lot of money has and is being spent.
MAN ON!
Exactly MAN ON! You can entertain and win to the level that your resources permit. You can be very entertaining with no money at all. Throw all caution to the wind against teams with better players as a result of resources and you will losee far more than you win. Perhaps get relegated in all the excitement and I'm sure the fans and sponsors will flock in droves to see your "entertainment". Pompey entertained. So did West Ham with Tevez. Both got relegated for their troubles. Or you can try to win with lesser resources which will almost always require a brand of sport that requires you to stop the opponent doing what they want while you try to nick wins. In that case, you probably win more than you lose, and, if you catch lightning in a bottle, you just might win things. Odds are still long, but far shorter than going the entertainment way. It is impossible to win while entertaining with second level players and second level resources. It does not happen. We do not play in a two team league. Atletico Madrid did not win because they out entertained. They won because they were far more disciplined which allowed them to win despite scoring more than half a goal per game less than Barcelona and Real Madrid, who were most certainly more entertaining. I believe 100% that the team with the 6th best resources can win titles in an economically sustainable model. It will not be as entertaining as the three clubs that have average salaries higher than our best wage earners. That's reality. COYS
peterballb
How can a team that just missed out on 1st place be actively competing against a team that finished 4 places below and were never anywhere near winning the title at any stage in season. Totally illogical in any dimension or universe. Doesnt make sense. Yet this is what spurs fans say...so 2 and 6 dont have FOUR numbers between them no? or does i go 1 2 6 4 5 3?. Illogical. This is why spurs are a regular fix for laughter season after season amongst everyone else. The odd logic which always fails. Just saying
I Bling Red
shedboy2, what does the level of debt matter so long as it is serviceable within the model. For the record the debt for the 2012-2013 season was 55M. The year prior it was 70M and the year prior again was 57M. So, we have actually reduced debt though higher interest rates have meant that we have paid more in financing that debt (8M in 2012-2013 and 6M in 2011-2012).

I have no issues with the finances I have seen. I will be looking on with interest at last season's figures when they are released next April/May. We made a transfer profit, probably reduced wages and never touched the additional 30M plus in new TV revenues. Will we see a profit of 40-50M? COYS
peterballb
Peter,
Love those 'Line Breaks' and paragraphs!
MrFrancis
Highgatespur, don't be silly about anti Spurs and all that rubbish, you are better than that. Perhaps you should face reality, and look at some facts. Liverpool came from 7th to second last season, scored goals for fun, and OK have lost Suarez but still have a 20+/season goal scorer in Sturridge, they have bought well, and have 2 of the outstanding young players in the PL, in Stirling and Coutinho. To face reality, they are better and stronger than us, and as much as I wish/hope/fantasise about us finishing above them, I honestly can't see it happening. I also think that City, Chelsea, Arsenal, and very likely Man Utd will finish above us. If we had bought a quality CB, to assist Verts in preventing us leaking goals, and a striker likely to get 20 PL goals/season, my opinion just might be different. I love this club and have done for 64 years, but I can face facts, reality, recognize our failures, and don't live in cloud cuckoo, or never never lands. Unreasonable expectation only breeds disappointment and frustration, which leads to the allocation of blame, when the unlikely, or the near impossible, is not achieved. I repeat, a realistic finish for us is to maintain 6th place if we improve our GD, success in cups is dependent on the lottery of the draws, and we have been unlucky in this in recent seasons.
Frank
And where did Livepool with resources superior to Arsenal and Spurs finish the past few years? How did your magical table read those seasons? Liverpool, in the last 3 reported seasons have lost 50M, 41M and 11M. I suspect last season will be yet another year well in the red. Liverpool's debt went from 87M in 2011-2012 to 114M in 2012-2013. Sounds solid. COYS
peterballb
i honestly cant see liverpool doing a tottenham.they are buying players who fit into their style seamlessly.
tarkan mardinCOYS
For me there is no joy in endlessly analysing every move of our great club, either statistically, financially, retrospectively or by comparisons with others. Football is in my heart and reality is what F's around in my head... A nice little kick about on the park will do for me right now. See you later, I've got goals to save... ;-)
MAN ON!
dont forget the bindippers are in 4 competions next season.just ask peterballb
tarkan mardinCOYS
FRank, you did not mention Suarez' assists totals. He was far and away the best provider as well. We'll see how they do this season in four competitions, 2 games a week, all the new faces and the loss of their best player. They relied on the same players all last season (much like Southampton). They will not be able to do that this season. None of Pochettino, Rodgers or Martinez have ever managed teams in four competitions. There will be bumps. Liverpool are not a lock for CL. COYS
peterballb
One thing I hope, is that we don't get bogged down in a long protracted saga re Schneiderlin, and lose sight of what should be the priority, which is a CB, and a striker, and maybe if there is time to shift one or two out, either on loans, or in a few cases permanent deals. It is now 30th July 2 and a bit weeks from kick off, we need to get sorted.
Frank
If Liverpool do a tottenham then they will finish 6th, hardly the end of the world for them, if tottenham brought who Liverpool just have last season instead of the 7 we did get then I would not have been jumping for joy. We will soon find out how it will go.
Kong
Frank, there will be no saga from our side. If Schneiderlin comes, it will be for our valuation (plus or minus). It will likely be later, rather than sooner, because that's what it will take for a meeting of the minds. That is our reality. The Southampton situation will be, if not already, a mess. I feel bad for their fans. COYS
peterballb
Geofspurs, my understanding is that the Southampton fans are making noises, thus the statement yesterday. I think that they blew it. If this coach and these players were all that, they should have extended contracts, bought a few players and pushed up the table. They chose to take the money and run and are now trying to hold on to the few they have remaining. They can't have it both ways. If they stand tough, they will lose Rodriguez in a year for nothing and they will have a poisoned room and atmosphere in the Championship. cOYS
peterballb
Frank, I am not being silly - have you ever read your posts back to yourself? It's a very long time since you written anything positive about Spurs. I know that you don't attend the games anymore, partly in protest, perhaps it's more than that. As a supporter I see nothing wrong in being optimistic, or as you put it in the never-never land; it's much better than being negative adnausium - how is the Supporting Spurs ? Don't let 60 wonderful years of sup[porting |Spurs be negated by the negativity you are leaking these days. Come on it doesn't cost you much to be positive - or does it ?
Highgatespur
Frank is a highly respected poster on here.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Fascist?!!!....Bit OTT ain't it?!
Critical_Spur
I love everyone's posts, Frank + Highgate included! In fact I love my own posts!!!...I love everything Spurs! What does that make me?!! :0) Peace!....talking about which, where is Worldpeace.
Critical_Spur
anyone got some good gossip that dosnt concern southampton players?whats the goat saying nowadays.
tarkan mardinCOYS
Hey Frank, would that be raising our expectations a bit now - to expect signings - I say lets temper our expectations and NOT expect to sign anyone else. Finishing 5th /6th this year would deem a failure for me - as things stand now. We did replace a novice with an experienced one - surely our expectations has to be higher - otherwise why replace him ? I thought there was general agreement that our squad was good enough and just needed tweaking ? Change of minds ? Personally I would like the club focus on signing an experienced quality CH.
Highgatespur
Critical - like your posts as well. We will just have to agree to disagree when it's unveiling good or not! LOL....
Highgatespur
Have all the world cup returnees clocked in yet?...any training videos?, Ade got the all clear?....very silent. No news is good news? Even the Roast update from Cider has gone very quiet! COYS!
Critical_Spur
I seem to remember being very positive about the signs shown only last week on the tour, when Lamela and Capoue and Co. looked good v Toronto, and often during our superb season some 4 years ago when we got to the CL QF. I always praise the side, and individual players and the coach, when it is warranted, when performances justify it, but equally I will reserve the right to criticize and vilify either individuals, or the team, when they fail to perform, and get poor results. I will also and often do criticize our owner and chairman when I consider their emphasis is misplaced, and their level of ambition for on the pitch success is less than I expect from this club. Supporting a team is about honesty and objectivity and being prepared if something is wrong, isn't working, to admit it, and to crtiticize accordingly, as well as praising and excercising bragging right etc when everthing is going well. Regarding not attending games, you are quite right, I am unable any longer so to do, not because of any protest, but due to the fact that I have lived on the wonderful Nth Yorkshire coast since 1965, and travel is difficult and expensive. I still attend away games where possible, and watch Spurs games on every conceivable TV network, so keep up to the minute with performances and all things Spurs, so I would like to think my loyalty is beyond question.
Frank
Critical - here's a link ... according to Kong all are safely and soundly back in training!

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/07/30/photo-ben-davies-training-with-his-new-spurs-teammates/?
Highgatespur
From today's training photos, Lloris, Bentaleb, Chadli, Vertonghen, Dembele and Ade were all there. Saw nothing of Sandro or Chiriches. COYS
peterballb
Did not see Paulinho anywhere either. COYS
peterballb
Peter if it's my magical table that you refer to then 'Pool are 4th in net spending over the past 5 years just one place ahead of Arsenal...so Chelsea, City, Manu, Pool and Arse occupy the top 5 as you would expect but the 6th richest team are not in 6th...we're all the way down in 19th!
shedboy2
HGS - check out physioroom.com. According to them we have Carroll and Fryers out with concussion and no return date on Chiriches (back) and Dembele (calf/shin). I think there is a few stragglers missing from training still but we have a pretty fit squad.
muttley
Frank, my apologies for getting my facts I thought I remembered you saying you stopped attending due to a personal protest. The close season is still in play so I don't see any negativity can be poured on anything at the moment. I can be negative at best of times but I find little reason to when the ball is yet to be kicked in anger. Your devout support of and unswerving loyalty to Spurs is undeniable - there can be no question about it. i just thought your posts could be more supportive thus positive towards the club - it's just my thought. I missed that moment 4 years ago as I only joined this last December. I like reading your posts, what I'm really saying a bit of positivity wouldn't go amiss. If not, that's fine. No offence meant!
Highgatespur
Thanks muttley I just relaying what Kong had said earlier about the WC returnees.
Highgatespur
Yes, shedboy2, but we spend far more on salary than we used to. You have to take all of the numbers in to account. As a club with a large squad of quality players, we also get a fair amount in for those players we sell and thus, do not have to spend shedloads above and beyond. We are basically at the max on what we can pay salary wise (though I'd like to see us reduce our squad size to 22 players and pay players a bit more) so long as we keep balancing out the transfer numbers. Again, I am somewhat shocked that we have not spent a bit more because of the 30M extra TV money, which we again get this season. However, I will wait and see what the numbers say in April/May. Up to this season, the numbers that have been posted seem to reflect what I had anticipated. COYS
peterballb
salary is well under 70%, may have crept up a couple of percentage points but it's not a valid reason not to spend any of the money you take from fans on buying players... those top5 spenders all pay way more salary than us but the difference between us and 5th place is over 100m!...truth is as Man On! points out we're spending vast amounts on property....to who's benefit?
shedboy2
Hear hear Shedboy2.
Frank
I predict Sky Sports will bang on about how this season is "the best, most open season in years" before the 2 or 3 limitless funds clubs clean up. We will finish 5th - 7th like we do every year. Nothing much is going to change until our lowest wage earner is on 100k a week and we can spend 50-100 million each transfer window without batting an eyelid. The only way is to keep gradually progressing on and off the pitch until a new owner with proper capabilities comes in. How about a joint venture with NFL for the London franchise. Could be our golden ticket.
StillRickyVilla
Tarkan, your love of Liverpool gors on and on and on..
maldives
Just reading Derby could be in for

Tom Carroll

, if no one wants him in the EPL, Derby is a good move in the championship, but is it not in direct conflict with Will Hughes?
MrFrancis
A couple of percentage points under 70% does not equate well under. Our turnover is 50M less than that of Liverpool, at last report. In real terms, that means that Liverpool could spend an additional 35M on salaries or players without being irresponsible. By contrast, increasing our wages by the 2% you suggest represents another 3M in wages across the board. So we give each of the 30 players another 100k/year or about 2000GBP per week more. I'm sure the players will be queueing up for all that money. So, Liverpool is able to pay 1M per player per year, you suggest we up our salaries 100k/year to compete. Not a business major, but I see a slight flaw in your argument. The only way to compete is to increase turnover/revenues. Long way off. COYS
peterballb
1-4-2-3-1..... It's a funny old game of numbers... I remember the good old days, hanging around the London Stock Exchange, watching those slick city boys, giving me the runaround, slipping me a dummy... a quick one two and boom, bang, back o' the net! Now it's all .com this and .net that..... Oh, what a palaver! I'm forever bursting bubbles.......
MAN ON!
Hey, thanks for the name check shed.
MAN ON!
MrFrancis, you are correct. Sandro was there. Blind and can't read. COYS
peterballb
Mais Futebol, a reliable source in Portugal, understand Tottenham Hotspur are closing in on the signing of England and Sporting Lisbon centre back Eric Dier. The report believes the player has spoken and chosen to join Spurs and the confirmation could come as soon as the next few hours.
Yidmarks
What I'm hoping for this season is we tighten up at the back, don't concede more than 3 goals in any game, bloody ridiculous the amount of goals we shipped last year. Oh and win FA cup and finish top three! COYSS!!!
Thats Entertainment
Thanks yidmarks
Highgatespur
I know it's nothing to do with football so sorry,, but I've just played 5-a-side so watching C4+1 news, how many children do Israile have to kill before we take action!? #gaza
T.H.F.Chris
peterballb, no worries, I always study those photos intently,
Speaking of observations what is your opinion, or anyone else's opinion on Eriksen, lack of fitness, form, or Lamela taking over his zones...?
MrFrancis
Eric Dier signing shortly.......
LuvWhites
Personally, I would enquire about Isco, he knows we have prior interest, and if Franks friend (Levy) could do a good deal, why not, even on loan, to buy option.
I know we now have Coco , but what do you think?
MrFrancis
Eric Dier must be for the future as he has not played that much for sporting, Lukaku signing for Everton, it's getting going with transfers.
Kong
peter- I haven't suggested increasing our wages by 2% of t/o, I merely pointed out that it MAY have crept up a little in recent times but that is small in percentage terms...you're deflecting our lack of transfer budget on to wages...but as agreed ( I thought) under 70% wages are not an issue...you then try and conflate percentage points with physical sums...why? you write as though ENIC selling Spurs for a billion would be a good thing? why? Using your figures 2%=3m..surely we can use some of the remaining 35/32% of t/o for transfers just 4% pa over the past 4 years would see us with another 24m to spend on players above those we have sold...in other words we could afford a Benteke/Lukaku outright....but we don't need one of those type players now do we?...far better to borrow money and pay millions in interest (shame our owner couldn't lend us some of his money to build his property portfolio that will pocket him a vast fortune- oh wait he is...converting the debt for equity so he can make even more!) for a project that will saddle the club with debt for a generation...Man on!...I do read your posts...sometimes I ask myself why...;)
shedboy2
Isco is a very talented player. We'd only get him on loan. He is all over the pitch, when I have seen him play, so I'd suggest he'd be competition for Erikssen. Personally, I'd rather see Holtby be competing there than have a player on loan who will again be gone in a season. He could have come to us instead of going to RM but didn't. I'd pass on that one.

Dier is a very interesting one. Big, young. Has spent time with Everton. Seems to be a competent young CB. I'm sure the fee would be half what Lascelles would cost. Seems odd though that he'd leave when they are in the CL. Wages will, no doubt, be much improved in England. But then a campaign in the CL would potentially rise that further. Just saying. COYS
peterballb
T.H.F.Chris- you're right nothing to do with football...there's only one Gazza to talk about on this site...
shedboy2
Reports suggest if Dier is signed he will be loaned straight back
Chelmspur
Our owner lent us 15M just a few seasons back for players, if anyone was watching. As for the numbers, the total must still be the total. So yes, we can remove 30M from the wage bill in a given year and have a 30M net spend in that same season and still wind up in the same place. It remains the same numbers. The only way to do what you suggest is to raise turnover 50M so that you can buy two players costing 20M each and pay them each 5M per season which would have them at the top of our wage scale. But you still have to find that 50M, which is where the stumbling block remains. Or, you pay 50M of monies that you don't have and hope that one day you will find those monies. Wing and a prayer to the Championship. It usually doesn't work. COYS
peterballb
£28m for Lukaku, never thought Everton would spend that.
Kong
peterballb,
do you see Hotby making it at Tottenham?
The reason I mention Isco, is that now is the time, if we are interested?
MrFrancis
Chelsea were never going to sell to us. I'm more surprised that Lukaku does not fit in to the plans of Chelsea. Yes, 28M and a five year deal seems a lot for them to offer. COYS
peterballb
£28 would have been a lot for us to pay too.
Kong
MrFrancis, I hear Isco is only being made available on a loan. If it were a permanent deal, then perhaps that's a different story. Yes, Holtby has enough to fully merit a place in a 25 man squad. COYS
peterballb
£28m even.
Kong
yes peter the numbers are the numbers...only one revenue in reality...and that is being diverted away from football towards property...and a big fat profit for ENIC!...and the Lukaku deal should see us fall to 20th in the net spend table! Best Levy get his finger out or the discontent will grow....
shedboy2
shedboy2, your comment that the football side revenues are being diverted to property are wholly unsubstantiated. What are you basing this on? What set of numbers are you referring to? We know what the audited turnover is. It is published. Also published (and audited) is the fact for the last 4 or 5 seasons, our wages have been in the 90-95M range, representing between 65 and 70 percent of turnover. That leaves 30-35% for all other expenses related to the football side of things. Staff aren't free. Nor are any of the other expenses that every club incurs to run a football club. Happy to read it all. Just not willing to make leaps of accusation without some foundation. THFC is one of many enterprises that ENIC run. That now includes the training complex and the NDP. COYS
peterballb
Lakaku to Everton shows us that some players prefer to being playing every week and not sit on the bench with a club that cannot guarantee that. Chelsea will not guarantee players first choice they like competition so he has took a step down to Everton which imo is good. Ok he may have got some medals with Chelsea but how many games would he had got. Chelsea rather go for the world class foreign players. I do think however, Lakaku would have done alright at Chelsea if given a chance, I think he is good enough, but I guess he rather not take the chance and be number 1 at Everton.
BigSpursFan
Southampton are still saying Morgan is not for sale even though he has put in a transfer request. Either they are shutting shop or being awkward because it is Poch or doing their best to stop paying his bonus hence get him to put in a TR and to get a higher fee for him as levy has not met their valuation.

Unhappy players at a club like Southampton can be more damaging because they will not have good enough experienced players to fill in if he doesn't play. My bet he will be sold last day, with five minutes to go. Who to not sure as it depends on the reasons behind their reluctance to sell. If it is because of Poch then they may well only sanction a last minute sale to another club, tell him take it or leave it. If its more about valuation and not paying bonuses and we are in for him then I can see it happening. We just don't know how they feel about Poch, what went of behind the scenes.
BigSpursFan
peter-Paulinho has been extra time of due to how long he was in WC it says so on the official site.
BigSpursFan
If Vlad is injured again I really cannot be bothered with him. I mean he had a back injury last season. Back injuries are troublesome if you don't look after yourself. I look at Lamela who had back injury but he stayed positive and looked after himself and worked hard, is Vlad doing the same - Hmm not sure.
BigSpursFan
Interesting that Everton have stumped up 28 million. Shows the impact of sky money and whilst I try my best to be positive, really does highlight the underinvestment in the team each year from us. We make a profit and to date have money from Livermore and siggy sales giving a surplus on Davies and vorm in's. however, back to positive and am sure a centre back will be arriving soon ( glad it's not Lovren, over rated IMO).
Windlespur
Shed you are right but the title of the article is 'Hindsight', it's pre-season and it really p1sses me off meant I had to write it somewhere...
T.H.F.Chris
I think unless the owners spend some of their own money on players this season we may even slide further down the table. I still do not see how a team is run on player sales only. Surely there is a set transfer budget each season plus extra from players sold. That does not seem to be the case for us. I think when a player chooses a club like Everton above us we should be worried. Starting to agree with Gomes on what he said about Levy. I really do not think he is a football man. If Poch is under orders to get top four but has no transfer budget he is in dream land. We cannot keep selling our best players each year. I hope we sign a top centre back, a striker that will do that business for us, another quality winger and a right back to challenge Walker. While I do not see it in either of the Saints players we need to back him up in the market. With regards to Schneiderlin I would not be looking to spend a large chunk of my budget on a area we are overloaded in. With Jay Rod I would not touch a player that is injured. Why would you risk it. Can always come back in the winter window. I think we can afford to lose Naughton, Benny, Lennon, Daws, Soldado and maybe at least a few centre midfield players. Also if offers came in for Townsend, Chadli, Paulinho, Sandro and Dembele I would consider them providing we can bring in better replacements. I also do not think that Kane can make the grade either and although we need to keep certain players to stay in the squad as home grown based, some of the one we have are never going to be good enough for a top 6 side let alone top 4.
nothappyharry
Look, Everton essentially spent the Fellaini money on Lukaku. It does not make them stronger because he was in the team last season. It does not get them closer to a deep squad, because he was there last season. They are still old at the back and will be playing two games a week. Last year they sold Fellaini. The year prior Rodwell. Another year prior Arteta. All of their purchases in those respective years did not total the one they sold, and others went out too. Lukaku will do a job for them, to be sure. There are concussion concerns etc. He is one player. If we are worried about them we will be seeing another two manager season. COYS
peterballb
@Windlespur good point but why arent we spending our sky money.
123spurs
what happenes if a team finishes top 4 in there league, but then gets knocked out of groups in CL and goes into the EL and wins it
123spurs
everton spent the fellaini money on mccarthy 12.8 million and arouna kone 7-8 million and extending baines,mirrales and and getting in a few loanees.
tarkan mardinCOYS
admittedly they have not been spending for years
tarkan mardinCOYS
everton have managed to keep everyone from last season.my worry is we will be in a dog fight with everton for the 6th place
tarkan mardinCOYS
nothappyharry, I have never really understood the idea of a transfer budget. It has been reported that Pochettino has a 50M transfer budget. So let's take that number. WE already have too many senior players, so any coming in will surely signal the exits of players. Gomes is out of contract, he's gone. Vorm in. Livermore out. Davies in. Sigurdsson out. And we are still up money, plus the tV revenues, plus the Transfer surplus for last season. So, does that mean that all of that (perhaps 50M) can be spent along with 50M of uncle Joe's money? Oh wait, but I forgot. We have this years TV money too. So can Pochettino spend another 130M, just on transfers, irrespective of budgets? And does each transfer out further add to those monies? To me, it makes no sense at all. It seems far more reasonable to assume that Pochettino has identified 3 or 4 players, that we value at 50M, that we are going to try to get. Davies 8. Vorm 3. Schneiderlin and Rodriguez 15-20 each. That's 50M. That 50M will be offset by sales, so that transfer budget is not a net number and will probably represent a small loss or a small profit when salaries, fees etc all come in to play. Arsenal don't generally have net spends. They usually have money left over. But they pay as much as they can afford in slaty. I'd suggest we are doing the same.

IMO (and I am not in the room with them all) a transfer budget comes down to the identifying positions that need strengthening, identifying preferred targets in each and a grand total amount that is approved by the board to accomplish this, knowing fully well that there will be sales of players with each player who is brought in to keep us at a certain squad size.

If memory serves, uncle Joe has reached in to his pockets on a few occasions for player purchases and each time they were stated to be low interest loans. FFPR (without arguing whether they work, are enforced etc) allow a club to spend 5% above turnover. If we have a turnover of 150M, we could spend an additional 7.5M. Not gonna buy a lot of players or pay a lot of salary, assuming we are running a break-even business. It's a drop in the bucket. 50M extra in transfers probably conservatively also adds about 160k/week in salaries or over 8M. So that real cost is 60M or 30% of our yearly turnover. That does not make sense. COYS
peterballb
tarkan mardinCOYS, Deulofeu is not there this season. Like Lukaku and Barry, he was a huge loan player. Distin, Barry, Jagielka, Howard, Pienaar, Osman and Baines all played huge minutes for them. They will now have two games a week and all these 30 plus year olds are one year further on. I don't think they will have it as easy as you suggest. Very few of their players underachieved last season. All of ours not named Lloris did. They do not have much upside and they have a team that relies heavily on older players. It's going to be rough. COYS
peterballb
Peter, are you saying that we are effectively "doomed" in the 5th-7th zone year in year out as our owners want to run a tight ship? Obviously their perogative as it is also to charge top dollar for tickets, we are definitely not in the 5th-7th zone on ticket prices.
ItalianYiddo
ItalianYiddo, you know me far better than that. I believe that we can win cups and the title even with our. It will take a serious coach and serious players. I believe, if we get the players playing to potential, that we are as good as Arsenal, Liverpool and United. Only Chelsea and City, who have average salaries that are higher than our best paid players, stand above that in talent, top to bottom. I think AVB knew what he is doing. I have no idea whether Pochettino is that guy because there is no track record to suggest that he is. If we rotate effectively, keep all the players hungry, have the best "team" in the PL, there is a possibility of catching lightning in a bottle, all without spending irresponsibly. I would have hired a winner as a coach. We have gone the other direction. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. The players are still good, so we should, regardless of other things, be able to finish within our "doomed" position. For me, Europe is a must every year. After that, it's all gravy. Get the stadium done and we are closer to Liverpool and Arsenal. Win a cup every couple of years, and the marketing will get us even closer. Step by step.

Short answer, NO, we are not doomed, YES we can win and do it now. COYS
peterballb
Not having a dig Peter, I admire your faith in Enic unfortunately I have lost mine. I tend to agree with Gomez that the problem lies with Levy, football deficient and starting to look to be deficient on the business side too. We have missed the boat more than once when a sensible investment could have propelled us to the next level. I am intrigued at the five year contract given to Pochettino, hopefully he gets to see half of that.
ItalianYiddo
As we are now past midnight this side of the pond I am off to bed dreaming that Lewis has a "calling" and gives the green light for the necessary investment to make us contenders instead of also runs. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
That investment will come organically. It will not be gifted. He will front one third of the stadium costs (which he will get back and then some at a later date) and the balance is costed. The new stadium will happen and that will see revenues increased. If we are fortunate enough to be in Europe, so much the better. If we are in the CL, then the monies can truly start gushing. I have no faith in ENIC when it comes to coach appointments. I cannot argue with the balance of the business model. It is very difficult to watch Chelsea and City be able to grow with Monopoly money and see your club grow organically. We do not have a similarly disposed owner. We are run similar to Arsenal and Everton. We missed the PL and CL gravy train before ENIC was even in the picture. We have to play catch-up and there is no organic quick fix. Catch lightning in a bottle is the best I can hope.

It is our double edged sword. You go out and get talent like Modric, Bale and Berbatov who live up to our hopes and dreams, but then they become wanted men elsewhere and can make far more elsewhere, so elsewhere they go, leaving you to look for a suitable replacement. It's harsh, not easy, but I believe can be done. COYS
peterballb
THFChris ... I totally agree. Forget about CL until we are league champions and competitive in the top four every year. The reason the CL exists (originally the European Cup) is to provide a showcase of Europeís finest teams in all leagues ... and that does not include us until we establish our credentials by winning the EPL. We need to aim for the top, not 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. To put the horse before the cart would only give us a false sense of success, imo.
Geofspurs
Frank ... Gotta say that you show a lot of insight about our team and football in general, and few could argue with the base you form your opinions on. I think, to an extent, some of us older supporters are victims of witnessing a glorious past (and I donít mean Ďvictimsí in a bad way) ... and our thoughts and opinions on most things are mainly determined by the experiences we have had in Ďlifeí.
Geofspurs
Critical ... re Ďpostsí ... I agree with you about them all except mine ... I donít agree with, or love, my posts!
Geofspurs
I think itís fine that we can all disagree and even argue certain points, thatís what the site is for and makes it quite educational. But I find it a bit patronising to suggest people are not thinking correctly or Ďare better than thatí, etc, just because we donít hold the same opinions. We all have our own take on what is, and what is not, and we all have our reasons for those opinions. Personally, I prefer to be abused than patronised (now thereís a set-up!).
Geofspurs
Peter ... I like the way you express your opinions, and the paragraphs make for much easier reading, cheers, mate.
Geofspurs
I think Everton have moved beyond us in terms of real quality. People talks about Spurs having quality but in all honesty we still dont know whether Lamela can play in the prem, whether Chadli, Paulinho and Soldado are as bad as they looked last year. Add to that the fact that our owners will not spend any proper money we are destined for mid table and most likely average cup runs. Daviess is an ok signing, but he's slow, it's all been very underwhelming at WHL this summer especially now MS deal is off.
jordtheyid
Oh great news Eric Dier is coming in. Levy really pushing the boat out with another established top quality player...not
jordtheyid
jordtheyid, while it may well pan out to be as poor as you suggest, the tone of your e-mail suggests that you too feel that all of those players under performed. I am sure if you asked Soldado, Lamela, Chadli et al if they were satisfied with last season, you will get a resounding no. So, I am prepared to let them earn their keep, so to speak. I care far more that the players in and around the team seem to be accepting of Pochettino and that there is somewhat of a "team" atmosphere there. Davies is not fleet of foot, but he is quick of mind and execution and his positioning is very good. I expect he will push Rose and Rose will push him. AS for Everton, I think you are way off the mark. They are very old at the back and had the fortune of nominal injuries and one game a week. Let's see how that same team does a year later with two games a week. COYS
peterballb
Dier, as I understand it, will be immediately loaned straight back. Snip of a price and next summer he'll he a year older with CL experience. He is fairly well regarded,so, until I see him with minutes in the PL, I'll give their judgment the benefit of the doubt. COYS
peterballb
I agree that all the players should have a chance to prove themselves under the new manager ... but for some of them this has to be a make or break season as far as their future careers with Spurs goes.
Geofspurs
Eric Dier I think is left-sided and can play full-back, CB and as a defensive mid. He's English and just 20 years old. He sounds like a good prospect but I've not seen him play myself.
MAN ON!
Geofspurs. I agree with your post about being educated on here. I'm not really one for understanding the finances and politics of Spurs and football in general but, even though I may joke about it, I do read other peoples posts about these things, with interest. It can bore me sometimes but I still find it informative... I do get frustrated when there's no real football to discuss, as that is my over riding passion... I look forward to the new season with genuine excitement and just a little trepidation. Once again it's all change, with a new coach and a new way. I'm up for it and ready to go. Up the Lilywhites... or whatever colours we are this season.
MAN ON!
My prediction as always is that we'll be Champions. I'll be right one day, won't I?
MAN ON!
Good morning and good day everyone. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Good morning james... Are you well?
MAN ON!
Rumours around that falque is about to join Genoa, will be interesting to see the squad that flies out for the friendly this weekend, who goes and who stays behind.
Kong
More rumours around Eriksen and Lamela interest as well. It's par for the course I suppose.
MAN ON!
I except much of the same. We will see the potential of the team, which will excite at times, but then we will fall short, because the squad is not quite strong enough. This has been the repeated since we qualified for the Champions League, only back then we had a very strong starting 11, that fell short, because there was not strength in depth, not two top quality players for every position. We are weaker now of course, because the starting 11 is not as good, because it lacks game changers, lock pickers, like VDV, Bale and Modric from deep...
Pele10
Plenty of rumours to keep us going.
Kong
All good thanks MAN ON! Sorry for the delay. Was about to sit down with a cup of tea and then the kids took over lol. On my way to work now. This Eriksen business is bull but if Pocho doesn't fancy him then we have to trust him? COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
MAN ON! I hope these rumors about Ericksen and Lamela are not true, because these two guys could potentially be the lock pickers we so urgently need!!! But of course if an offer that is suitable for the ENIC board comes in, one or both will be gone, and winning silverware at other clubs...
Pele10
Critical...Roast update. Ate out on Sunday at a local establishment. Very poor, to be expected, it was a League Two fixture. Potatoes handled themselves in a cool manner, no really, they were cold. It appeared the chairman had placed a trialist within my ranks, stuffing placed inside my Yorkshire pudding?, most weird I had Beef, no chicken in sight. I thought my team was going to make this a game to remember, after all, the 40 minute wait to get served suggested that it was a packed house for the match.

Anyway, home fixture next week so a sense of normality should resume, nothing sensible, just normality.
Cider spurs
One more day at work wooohooo! COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
I have published a good article over on www.onehotspurs.co.uk about how the new season is looking from a fans point of view.... the same 5 questions asked to fans from all over the country.. be really good if you could have a read...... Thanks. OneHotspurs - HAVE YOUR SAY
OneHotspurs
 

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