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Poch - Too may players.

Interesting to see MP saying that we have too many players. Apparently he is poised to sell 5 players. At last some common sense coming out of the Lane.

I totally agree. Without going on about the magnificent 7 and too many midfielders, we have all been screaming out the squad is unbalanced. MP has been addressing this by bringing in Davies, Dier and possibly Yedlin and Musacchio. At last a manager who is addressing our biggest problem for years, our defence. With Kaboul's injuries and Dawson's lack of pace etc, Vlad not establishing himself despite some good aspects of his game, we have been looking for a solid defender to partner Verts.

If we do get MM, then we would have Walker, Naughton, Fredericks, Yedlin, Davies, Rose, BAE, Fryers ,Verts, MM, Dier, Dawson, Kaboul, Vlad, and Veljkovic. I can see at least 4 of Dawson, Kaboul, Vlad and Naughton and BAE, leaving us with 2 players for each position Dier also covering RB and Fryers covering LB/CB if needed. The question is who to sell.

Kaboul is injury prone, so if Napoli or anyone else is willing to pay anything over 5m, I would take it. He is also a big earner. I don't see Vlad staying to be 3rd choice and he will have good resale value. If we can get our money back on him, it would make sense to sell him. That leaves Dawson. Most of us want him out, solely based on his football ability, not his personality. But, he seems reluctant to go and due his testimonial next year. If he were to accept being 4th choice, then on a wet Tuesday cup night in Stoke etc, he could still do a job for a year allowing Veljkovic to develop into the first squad.

It seems like Pocho teams will be 4-2-3-1. Capoue, Sandro, Holtby, Dembele, Paulinho, Chadli, Lamela, Lennon, Townsend, Eriksen, Benteleb, Carroll. 12 players fighting for 10 places but not a balanced midfield by any means. Who goes is down to how MP sees what each player brings to the team. He might deem Sandro as expendable if Capoue, Holtby and Benteleb can anchor the midfield. Paulinho is the high profile name here and based on last season/WC, where does he fit into this team ahead of Eriksen? Leaving the 2 wide attacking players. Lennon, Lamela, Townsend and Chadli. Lamela is nailed on to be a starter, so hoping that Eriksen is not played on the left or right, that would leave Dembele, Paulinho without a natural starting place.

Up front Ade, Soldado and Kane. With African Nations this year, we might lose Ade for some games leaving just Soldado and Kane. A striker is needed? I would sell Ade if someone made an offer. He has rarely been at one club for so long and we know motivation is a problem for him. Bony is ideal to lead the line but he will also miss some games due to ACN.

With MP still looking to bring in Musacchio, Schneiderlin and Yedlin and possibly a striker adding to our already overgrown squad, there is definitely need to get rid of a few players. If we do bring in those players, then I can see Naughton, Kaboul, Vlad, BAE, Paulinho, Dembele, Chadli and Ade as players under threat. As ever, I welcome your opinion on who looks surplus to requirements.

Written by vicspur




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The journalist

Writer: vicspur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday August 11 2014

Time: 2:20PM

Your Comments

First of all, get rid of BAE.
Pollo
Second of all get rid of Chadli..
chavli
Selling Vlad would be a mistake. He has tremendous ability on the ball and can score like an attacking midfielder. Reads the game very well and can intercept balls as good as any. He has suffered with back injuries and had a baptism of fire in the EPL, but he has shown enough to me that he is a versatile defender. First and foremost he is a CB, unfortunately not tall as most CB's but makes up for that with his reading and ability on the ball. He can also cover RB and can play as a DM. Just a shame Pocho didn't have him on tour. He could have been the player that stood out. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
The players to go will be BAE, Daws, Chadli, Paulhinio or Djembele, Sandro
Horny Helen
For me those 5 are Kaboul, Dembele, Naughton, BAE, and Sandro.
LongTimeSpursFan64
There is certainly some trimming to be done. Shifting players like BAE, Dawson and Kaboul will be hard, nobody wants to pay the wages and transfer fees. We have 3 keepers, too many defenders and midfielders. It all depends on who he fancies and who he can get in. To go, BAE, Kaboul, Chadli, Townsend and Naughton. I'd get rid of Ade but nobody will take him.
RAF Yid
If Musacchio or another senior CB arrives, Kaboul or Dawson (and maybe both, depending on Dier's progress) should be sold. Naughton should go if Yedlin arrives. BAE should leave no matter what. The midfield is tricky: We currently have Holtby, Sandro, Dembélé, Paulinho, Capoue and Bentaleb who can play in the holding midfield places of a 4-2-3-1. If Schneiderlin arrives, this area becomes even more problematic. The advantage with Demblélé and Holtby is that they can also play higher up the pitch (as could Paulinho) and that versatility comes in handy when injuries start to pile up. So if Morgan arrives, Sandro or Capoue look like the ones most vulnerable. Bentaleb should be loaned. The front three will consist of the three listed previously plus Eriksen, Lamela, Lennon, Chadli, and Townsend.Eriksen and Holtby/Dembélé/Paulinho will play behind the striker. Lamela and Lennon will man the right, Townsend and Chadli the left. Based on fitness and injury record, I would tend to rely on Chadli more than Andros. If Rodriguez or Depay arrive, Townsend should be loaned. So I would say goodbye to Naughton, BAE, Kaboul and Dawson. In midfield, Sandro and Townsend & Bentaleb on loan.
BelgianSpur
If we sell Naughton we might not have a right back until January, when new lad arrives from the States, Walker has had the whole summer and is still not fit, I can see this injury running and running. BAE first out the door, Dawson if we can, probably Dembele and then my heart rules my head and don't want either Sandro or Kaboul to go. Interesting to see if players have to leave before new players come in, 3 weeks and counting before door slams shut.
Chelmspur
I'd be gutted if we got rid of Sandro. he's what Brazil missed in the World Cup.
Shannon
Too many players !?....welcome to THFC..and 4 comps'. Blackpool could do with a couple. Sounds like MoPo has put the...For Sale...sign, in the window. Decisions Decisions come with this high profile well paid position. Think Naughton is becoming a very good right fullback, should be, not, for sale.
82spursdebut
Here we go again. there are 32 players, 25 spots. Even if we accept that Khumalo and BAE will either be gone or allowed to run out their contracts, we need to offload 5 players assuming no others come in. If Yedlin comes in, I am not certain if he is considered u-21 (he turned 21 last month). If not, and if Musacchio, as I am informed is in the pipeline, we have some problems. Dawson and Kaboul don't want to go and we can't make them. Kaboul, I have read, wants to be offered a contract extension with Spurs or he will run his last year down and be available to sign wherever he wishes. Dawson, there's the testimonial and he doesn't want to go to a potential relegation team. Wages will be an issue for most of those we wish to sell.

So, who do we think will be going, that we will actually be able to move? I haven't a clue. This is the conundrum every year and, I presume, it stops us being able to get deals done that we would like to do. Get the squad down tio 22 with anything else being made up of u-21's and academy players. I swear we haven't learned anything from the Harry days. Our squad is too big and you still can't make older surplus players on large wages go anywhere. Get the squad down to 22, pay a little more on wages and have flexibility to do deals when you want. COYS
peterballb
And Luiz behaving like a spoilt kid, Shannon.
RAF Yid
BAE is the only player I can see never getting a game, so he has to go. The others are dependant on who comes in i.e. if Scheniderland then Paulinho and Dembele could leave, if Yedlin then Naughton can leave but Kyle has been a relatively good squad player so a hard choice to make. Personally I can't see Dawson, Vlad, Kane, Chadli, Kaboul, as well as the other I mentioned really cutting it week in week out as a top4 player. As I said though all depends who comes in.
T.H.F.Chris
Not sure I agree with selling Adebayor to buy Bony... Adebayor is better. I think when he's been loved, he's been very very good for us (under 'arry & tim). There is a reason he's played for City & was taken to Real, he can be unplayable at times. Definitely better than Bony for me
King26
Belgian pretty much agree with everything you've said except regarding Chadli/Townsend, I have seen very little from Chadli that has impressed me, especially against superior opposition. Also considering how crap he was last season, how little he player and how quickly he went out the world I would have thought he would have cut his holiday short and battled for a place during our pre-season.
T.H.F.Chris
Agree with King26. Bony is not really an upgrade on Adebayor this year.
BelgianSpur
King26, there's also a reason why he is not still with Arsenal, City or RM. He plays when he can be bothered. Love has nothing to do with it. Let him do what he wants and he is fine. Ask him to be a part of a "team dynamic" with the same expectations of all the others, he is a disaster. But yes, he is miles better than Bony, who is not the answer, hence why his price continues to drop. Doesn't mean we won't do a deal for him if Soldado goes to Atletico (suspect we don't want a loan but expect most of our money back - personally, if available, I'd do the loan - he hits for 20 and market value is right back there and perhaps it will show the problem was not him). COYS
peterballb
Ade may have been better than Bony but considering the African Nations, age and potential Bony may be a better addition. Personally I think we should go for both, Kane doesn't look like a 12+ goals a season man.
T.H.F.Chris
The article suggests Dier can cover for RB but my understanding is it was either RCB/LCB or DCM. It is Musacchio that is RCB/RB. Key to selling Naughton is getting him in. Seems the only ones to sit down with and tell them they won't get in the 25 are BAE & CHADLI. I do not think we have to name Fredericks, Dier or Veljkovic as were under 21 at start of the year. I make it we have 25 with only the 2 mentioned not getting in. If we have more business to do coming in then obviously others move out. Not necessarily Sold or loaned but just wouldn't be able to play. Tough talking to be done and cards on the table time.
CoysRus
we are allowed 17 foreign players over the age of 21 in our squad(that's foreign football association players!). By my reckoning we have 28 players over the age of 21 in the squad ten of those are homegrown so we only need to lose 1 foreign player to make our foreign quota...of course we also have to lose two more to name a 25 man squad but Khumalo, BAE and loan out carroll and or mason and we're set....
shedboy2
James .... I agree with you re Vlad,
Geofspurs
My mistake, Friers, Carroll, Ceballos and Mason are ALL over 21, so only Fredericks and Dier do not need to be named. Looks like loans for most of these again. Kane too if we can get Bony.
CoysRus
When posters on here say MP is looking to bring in X,Y,Z, etc .... are their comments prompted by the media or by direct quotes from MP?! Because if they are not quotes from MP why assume it’s true?
Geofspurs
Said this on another thread - we seem to have a plan this time and it looks lke there is consensus on implementation - all working towards the same goal behind the scenes.....and it's confidential. All the ITK's have been way off mark - The Dier signing was from left field!
BTW where is Muttley when you need him? He is the resident expert on our squad!
Durbanspur
Ade, unplayable. When Ade wants, take any transfer to get rid, we have a really good CF in Soldado, he just needs the service.
RAF Yid
One problem we may have moving on players (apart from they don't want to leave ) is that the ones wanted by others may not be the ones we want gone. Some tough calls to be made .
ro6ertj
Ade was unplayable for the first half of last season ... and very good in the second half. He’s the best we have, imo.
Geofspurs
all these players and only two senior strikers...
shedboy2
Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet, take no money just get rid. Kaboul, Dawson and Friedel are finished in their careers either through age or injury.
RAF Yid
Durbanspur- oh yes we must have a great plan...what is it to finally be ready for a season in 20 years time...some plan, 1 week before kick off and we're all over the place....
shedboy2
What genius decided to give Brad another contract? we should pull his squad place for a start...
shedboy2
When players know they won't be in the named 25, it is then reality strikes that they will not play. This may focus the mind on wanting a move/loan to have a purpose other than a salary each week. Unless your name was Gomes of course. He then has the cheek to say he was treated badly.
CoysRus
Granted that it could have better Shed, but WC returnees and new manager bedding in has its consequences - other clubs haven't had both issues - can't hold MP responsible for this - he has to get on with it but must give all the players a fair shot before deciding who he doesn't want.....but agree that it's not ideal!
Durbanspur
'It could have been better'
Durbanspur
Rex - my thoughts entirely...Bony is all but nailed on for the African Nations...RAF - who are you replacing adebayor with? in his seasons with us, he's been top scorer for 2/3, he brings goals to the team, I don't care if his attitude isn't great, not while he scores goals.
King26
I would accept this squad: Lloris, Vorm, Friedel, Walker, Naughton, Davies, Rose, Musacchio, Vertonghen, Chiriches, Kaboul, Dier, Schneiderlin, Capoue, Sandro, Bentaleb, Dembele, Paulinho, Eriksen, Holtby, Lennon, Townsend, Chadli, Lamela, Adebayor, Soldado, Rodriguez, Kane. 28 players with 3 free picks and 8 homegrowns.

That would mean offloading Dawson, Ekotto, Khumalo and loans or sales for Fredericks, Mason, Ceballos, Fryers, Carroll etc. I'm also not worried about an over-crowded midfield as you've really only got Sandro, Schneiderlin and Capoue that have to play in the 2 man DCM. Guys like Paulinho, Dembele, Bentaleb, Holtby and Eriksen can push up into the 3 and be effective there. What it does mean though is that we will have to have significant positive net spending if we want Schneiderlin, Musacchio and Rodriguez and are only getting £10m back for the others. I don't think that will happen though. I think there will be a senior midfielder going, if not 2.
muttley
Durbanspur- no it's not Mopo's fault...we have a DoF who is supposed to ensure continuity and a chairman who likes to make bad appointments before making bad firing decisions...they get paid a fortune but our squad management is a dog's breakfast....they look incompetent.
shedboy2
Depay is a must to get from PSV.
blackcatladder
before LVG gobbles him up.
blackcatladder
It is a no brainer for me. Obika & Khumalo do not count - out. Unless Poch can get something outta Kyle, Naughton is gone. Bae is far removed from the team now. Gone. Ain't gonna happen for Kaboul. Let him go if possible. If a deal for Sandro is there, let him go. 6 names. There were 10 or more players who started more EPL games than them last season, so they will not be particularly missed from the field. The previous season, we shed too much of our most stared players, replaced with epl experienced players, and it showed. This time around - combined with with the also non-starting Siggy and Falque, that is the way to do it. Build on what you had last year. Dawson stays until we have a stable defence without him. The fact that he still plays too much is a barometer of how our defence is not sorted. We still have a lot of midfield players, and I personally need to see Dembele step up, or he should go too. New manager and tactics, so let's see. It is also make or break for Mason 'n' Carroll as they have seen Bentaleb overtake them.
TonyRich
don't be so quick to write off Vlad
stephenspurs1210
CoysRus, while I will be the first to say that Gomes shold get on with it and focus on where he is now, rather than where he was, nothing he has said seems counter to what was previously reported. There were clubs interested. I don't ever recall there being stories out there tha Gomes was nixing the deals. I do recall Harry suggesting he could not let him go as we would be short. I thought at one point that there was a deal in place for him to go back to Brazil which never materialised. Obviously none of us were on the inside, but I do not recall a single report suggesting that what Gomes is reporting cannot be true. We certainly did nothing to get rid of Pav, Gio and others when there were offers out there. It is a consistent ENIC behaviour. I just have not worked out the value in it. If you want to hold on to a player because your valuation is not being met, and the coach is unwiling to play said player, how does the valuation ever go up? Paying a player 3M to sit on his duff because he will not be played makes no sense rather than selling same player for 3M lower than your valuation. I have never understood keeping players around the team who are not wanted. COYS
peterballb
We have an age old bloated squad problem at Spurs, our transfer policy, and contract awarding system, has brought it about. We adopt scatter gun tactics in transfers. Rather than signing one or two quality players, we sign cheapy gambles like Khamalo, Chadli, Chiriches, as some examples, and due to our contract awarding policy, the latest being the ludicrous award of a 5 year deal for Rose, it is difficult to shift players to upgrade. We have Dawson who will not leave, Kaboul is reported to be the same, we have the likes of Obika, Carroll, and others, who have little first team potential, who go out on repetitive loans without shining, what do we do with them when they reach 21, Obika is 23 still here, and is never going to be first team potential, he should have been dumped into the army of ex Spurs players in leagues 1 and 2, several seasons ago. It is all very well for people to say we need to get rid of BAE and others, but unless they are willing to go, you can't move them, and of course before you can get rid, another club has to be interested. Our current overload in MF is perfect proof that our transfer business is conducted predominantly by a bloke who hasn't got a bloody clue what he is doing, there has been no one in, one out, no attempt to aim for a balanced squad, just a determination to move out every quality player for massive fees and profit, and to try and pick up perceived bargains, apparently with little regard to how they fit into a squad, these are mixed with the occasional unbelievable deals, like the paying of a massive fee for the then 28, now 29 year old Soldado, whose sell on value is probably 25% of his fee if we are lucky, after 1 season, and club record fees for Paulinho, why, and Lamela who may or may not turn out to be up to playing the 38 game PL season. To summarise our transfer policy, both in and out, in recent seasons has been a shambles, and the price we are now paying, is a totally unbalanced and bloated squad, high in numbers, and low in true game changing, or match winning, quality.
Frank
Chiriches is better than Verthongen! Faster, better at passing the ball and more technical.
dagobert
If I was Joe Lewis, Danny boy Levy wouldn't be allowed within miles of a potential transfer window, he is totally unable to organise the proverbial pi$$ up in a brewery, when it comes to signings, buying and selling players, and negotiating contracts. He should stick to what he is qualified to do, and confine himself to the new stadium project, if he is fully committed to this, perhaps things may happen quicker. Hopefully Baldini's appointment as DOF will help, but one wonders how much autonomy he will have in sourcing and signing players within an agreed budget, which of course is the normal role of a DOF, and how much Levy will stick his ample nose in, and deflect his actions. I just wonder whose finger prints were on the "re-investment" of the Bale, Huddlestone, Parker, Dempsey, proceeds on the "magnificent 7", not the best business we have ever done, or the wisest investment of £109M.
Frank
I don't see as CB is a huge issue (numbers-wise). Kaboul, if he is wanting to let his deal run down, and Dawson, if he will not go, makes 2. Vertonghen makes 3. If we sign Musacchio, that is 4. Dier doesn't count, so the only surplus one is Chiriches. I suspect Dawson's opinion will change after the Testimonial and once it is obvious Dier is ahead of him along with Musacchio and Vertonghen (who still has not signed on the dotted line). Chiriches is young, and, as I understand it, is on relatively low wages. Kaboul situation will be resolved next June, if not sooner. You don't have to name players to your PL squad and Europa League squad. Chirches could only be listed on the Europa and Kaboul only on the PL (where we'd like to see him playing). Now, if Vertonghen goes and Musacchio doesn't come about, then it is not numbers we are worried about, rather quality. COYS
peterballb
King26, I would replace him with Benteke or Bony. Similar, not as good admittedly but they won't cost 100k a week. I cannot understand why we have a DoF, the manager knows who he wants. Let him give targets and let Levy do the deal. We are not alone this year, Utd in turmoil, it's at CB we have massive issues, I just hope Musacchio is decent and coming.
RAF Yid
Frank - as DOF, Baldini is surely responsible for selling players on, not just signing them. You have to ask, exactly what does he do for his huge salary? As for the Vlad debate, I don't think he will want to be 3rd choice. So if we do sign Musacchio, then I think he is off, or he stays if he is first choice next to Verts. As for Danny boy, Joe Lewis surely by now can see how many opportunities has been missed to move us up a level and become a regular top 4 side. As was said on previous thread, Arsenal are coming out of their huge debt tunnel and pretty soon, they will be able to channel all that income into the club. Wenger has guided them through a financial minefield and come out the other side. The man deserves credit for that.
vicspur
vicspur - when Utd strolled to the Prem title in Fergie's last season they had 5 centre halves - Rio, Vidic, Jones, Smalling and Evans. None of them got frustrated and they dealt with injuries. We shouldn't think of anyone as 3rd choice. We just need to switch them out seamlessly and make sure they understand how to play in Poch's system. That is why Vlad could be so important.
muttley
Frank, the "Magnificent Seven" still have a market value of over 100M and they all underperformed last season. It's not a matterof poor business, necessarily, but more how quickly each and every one of them was rushed in to the lineup. Capoue has looked very good in pre-season and more of a value than what we paid. Eriksen, the second half of last season was very good indeed, and is valued higher than he was bought for. Paulinho looked very useful until he got crunched, but still managed to score goals. His value has not diminished, nor has Chadli's who never really got it going last season. Chiriches has been out more than in, so it's hard to say, but he was not bought for big money so there must still be value there. Both Soldado an Lamela have a wayys to go. Soldado has looked very lively in pre-season and is not only scoring goals but has looked very fluid in the build-up which is why he has got 4 assists. Lamela and eriksen are both players that will look like they have done nothing and will either wind up with a couple of assists or will have a moment of brilliance and be the centre of attention. It's frustrating to watch them play. That said, if they can work some magic on corners and free kicks, their values could be huge.. I expect a great year from Eriksen, far better from Lamela and Soldado, for Chadli to show why we bought him (has pretty much the same skill set as Lallana), for Capoue to dominate and for Paulinho to become more consistent and dynamic. All in all, I am encouraged, though the proof will be what comes out on the pitch. COYS
peterballb
Frank, the signings were Baldini and Levy deals, why not let AVB pick his targets? Moutinho was one, whatever happens all 3 should be singing off the same song sheet. We don't. Peter, CB is massive, Kaboul won't be bothered, Musaccahio not signed yet, Dawson is not good enough, his testimonial means nothing to him, it's always a charity game anyway?? Vertonghen might go yet!!
RAF Yid
Rex you are right, bit of an own goal from me... Bony being African (I was thinking he was Belgium but that's Lukaku isn't it) is totally useless. I don't know why Africa degrade their players so much by having a tournament every 2 years, 4 is normal, 3 would be bearable but 2 is ridiculous.
T.H.F.Chris
Benteke is a far better player than Bony. Creates far more for others, wins balls back far more than most up-top players. He is a very complete player. Bony is not and I suspect there is more to things than meet the eye because Swansea seem pretty determined to see the back of him, which seems somewhat odd. COYS
peterballb
It's actually the timing of the ACN which is really the problem. If it was in July no one would complain.
BelgianSpur
Peter agree in principle with Benteke but I don't like injured players, you never know who they'll come back.
T.H.F.Chris
Belgium yeah timing is a massive problem but you can't really blame them for that.. I assume they pick Feb-ish as it is the best/coolest time to play football out there... Choosing to do it every other season though is just thick.
T.H.F.Chris
T.H.F.Chris, Benteke, like Rodriguez, are for the January window (when Adebayor would be off at ACN anyway). I would not get Bony. Remy makes more sense but for the wage demands. COYS
peterballb
I admire, but cannot share the optomism of those who stillthink Musacchio will still be coming, it has gone to quie for too long, even for a Spurs deal, where momentum is never the order of the day, I am afraid it is dead and buried, but perhaps it suits our hierarchy to have us believe it is still live. Nothing appears to be happening with either this or the deal for the young yankee full back.
Frank
Yeah remy over Bony... Something must be up with him if no one wants him on the cheap though...?
T.H.F.Chris
The common denominator is Levy. We have a perennial unbalanced squad because the buying criteria isn't buying round pegs for round holes, more on financial considerations, price, selling on potential and availability, we have been lucky with the Bales etc but luck has a tendency to run out when you most need it.

People see him as an astute businessman, I see him as a property developer that should stay away from football matters and stick with bricks and mortar, Sainsbury is looking good on our site. Better than the stadium.
ItalianYiddo
I admire, but cannot share the optomism of those who stillthink Musacchio will still be coming, it has gone to quie for too long, even for a Spurs deal, where momentum is never the order of the day, I am afraid it is dead and buried, but perhaps it suits our hierarchy to have us believe it is still live. Nothing appears to be happening with either this or the deal for the young yankee full back.
Frank
Actually THF Chris, February is one of the hottest months in Africa below the equator, and just as hot either side of it. its only cooler further up north near the Med in February.
For me the definite outs are Khumalo and BAE, reducing the squad to 30. Players mentioned in the news regularly as sellable so far are: Dawson, Sandro, Naughton, Kaboul (hope not), Chadli, Townsend, possibly Capoue (i havent read that one tho, hope not), Soldado. I C Kyle Walker's name has come up today as a Barca target, wondered why we were after USA player, and why he (Walker) is still 'injured'. Same worry about Verts, altho the Vermaelen tfer must have stung his hopes of Barca.
Both Kane and Holtby were sought by MP when at Southhampton last season, or so i recall reading, so i think they are reasonably secure. What is Kane's age, is he a free pick?.
of the fringe players, Carroll, Bentalib, Mason, Ceballos, Fryers, Obika, i'm not sure how many there are U21, available as free picks, possibly only Bent and Fryers? of the rest, they need to be loaned or sold. Only one i would look at is Mason, and he and Bentalib are fighting for the same spot IMO.
10iscoach
sorry about the double post.
Frank
Re. a comparison between Remy and Bony. Personally I would prefer Bony, but ironically, although his wage demands (£80K/Wk) are higher, Remy would probably be cheaper over a 4 year deal. Remy could be bought for circa £10M, and his wages would cost £16.6M over 4 years. Bony's release clause is set at £19M, and his wages, at for argument's sake £50K/Wk over 4 years, would cost £10.4M. This means that Bony's total cost over 4 years is £29.4M, and Remy's total cost for the same period would be £26.6M. The only financial gain in favor of Bony would be, if he can be got at a "bargain fee", and due to his age, his higher probable sell on value.
Frank
Absolutely Rex Vulgaris, at last others are beginning to see the woods from the trees, I have been saying exactly as you have posted. ever since the CL QF season, it is as plain as your nose on your face. The failure to build on that CL performance, spoke volumes about ENIC/Lewis/Levy's total lack of on the pitch ambition, their commitment to success, and their "vision" for the club going forward, this amounting to ensuring cheap and cheerful mediocraty, the only underlying criteria being to stay as apparent proxy contenders in the PL in the top 6-10, to maintain the value of the business come selling day.
Frank
Rex, sadly I think you may be right, meanwhile idiots like me are still buying the dream, season in season out.
ItalianYiddo
OK, before I read any comments: To be loaned out to any top tier leagues out of Europe's big 6 where they'll get regular football:- Carrol, Bentaleb, Fryers, Fredricks and Velkovich? To be definitely sold:- BAE and Dawson Possible sales:- any one of Paulinho and Dembele. I'd be happy enough if no one else came in; that is, assuming everyone is motivated...
alee
ItalianYiddo, I hope all is well with you and yours. Saw the news the other day. Congrats. While I do wish that ENIC would leave their coaches to do what they need to do, I do not believe for a second that Levy runs around identifying players and looking for deals. The scouts and Baldini do all that and recommend it to Levy who either approves it or ot. I am sure the coach is allowed to submit his list of players he would like, but, as per policy (and while it sucks, it's hard to argue it is incorrect) there is a valuation that our organization submits for all players and when the numbers do not fit, we do not bite. Schneiderlin is rated as an 8M player by transfermarkt. We apparently bid 12M which was viewed as an insult because they wanted 27M. Frankly, if my people told me that 12M was the lower end of our valuation (no way is he worth more than 17M) you can't just stump 27M because they say so and our coach wants him. The fact that THFC continue to get their valuation means that something is right in the system, no matter how much it frustrates all of us. Yes, he should stay way away from the coaches, but whatever scouting and valuation system is in place seems to be doing the job. Where I do take issue (and there is nothing but conjecture out there to suggest it was the case) is if Leandro, Willian and Moutinho were all within a couple of Million of getting done. In those cases, surely a premium can be paid above and beyond when it is the specific wish of the coach. In that regard, AVB never got any of the players he wanted, and, if they were that close, clearly he never had the support of the board. Harry repeatedly said he had the players he wanted and that there was nothing out there that would make us better. Who is to argue? Maybe he should have used the other 12 players in his squad. As I see it, the only place we need immediate movement is at CB and neither Dawson (there is at least one deal agreed) nor Kaboul (wants his contract to run out unless we will extend) will leave, we are kind of stuck. Dier looked promising the other day. Haven't seen anything of Vertonghen. Dawson looks well off the pace, Kaboul is an injury away and Chiriches is injured. I still think we sign Musacchio and Yedlin and perhaps a striker out of the blue. But then, perhaps we do nothing because players just won't go. COYS
peterballb
Sandro and Capoue are stoppers. We need both. The way they play, injuries and cards are a reality. The other needs to be able to step in. MS (if we get him) is not that type of player. Yes, like dembele, he can tackle etc, but he is not that beast in the middle of the park. If we get MS, he and Dembele become the same type of player which is why, for me, Dembele should go, or just don't get MS and get Dembele getting the ball out quicker. Paulinho and Holtby offer a completely different option in there, when a Dembele/MS type player is not ideal. Once again though, shifting any such players requires that there be a buyer who will pay our valuation and that the player is willing to go. That's a lot of IF's. Rather see what we can get out of Dembele and if it is not working, look to MS in January. COYS
peterballb
Peter, I am astounded when you talk about, and refer to as though gospel, "the official club statement" when discussing the AVB departure, or indeed any other subject concerning THFC. I personally wouldn't believe a statement from Daniel Levy, if he told me Saturday always follows Friday, I would have to check my diary. The man is an habitual liar, as the old saying says "a bigger liar than Tom Pepper". Make no mistake any club statement released, will formulate and explain the argument to suit Levy's agenda, so why on earth take any notice of "official club statements", all they consist of is "the gospel according to Levy".
Frank
We should have dealt with all our signings before the start of the season, we will start the season again not knowing who is going to be sold or purchased, harder for new players to get settled into the team. Get players out now whoever they are and sort the squad out.
Kong
All good Peter, thank you all round. I think you are a little lenient on Levy, I am sure the coach was aware of the LB weakness last season and I am also sure he didn't want all the midfielders that we ended up with, I still think that financials come before the good of the squad. Of course any business that pays over the top for merchandise is ill fated but some times you have to do what you have to do to drive that business forward, I don't see the will from ENIC to drive us forward.
ItalianYiddo
What an utter load of nonsense. They don't want top 4. Why would they? Turnover was 20-30M more the season we played in the CL. Why would they wan that? We probably got more bonuses etc from sponsors as well. Again, wy would they want that. Of course they want CL. Why else would they have hired AVB? Could have just promoted Sherwood to continue on for Harry. Would have cost way less. We could also easily have pocketed the Bale monies, sold Lloris, bought Vorm, sold Vertonghen, bought Ferdinand or Agger and pocketed the new TV monies. We'd already have 175M minimum in pocket and be no more likely to drop down the table. We may fall out of Europe, but then that would llow us to offload another 4 or 5 players to generate 50M to add to next year's 30M plus TV monies. Tat would have us at 250M, and still we'd be able to hover above mid-table. There is no doubt it is economically better to be in the CL. No doubt at all, and none of that will change that our turnover will still remain in the 150-180M GBP range depending on CL or not. None of that changes the salaries we can afford or the transfer ees we can ship out. There will still be a budget and FFPR. COYS
peterballb
I want to see what Dembele can do playing for pochettino as I feel there is a very good player waiting to come out. He can be a huge part for us this season if he can stay fit.
Kong
I think Frank likes Levy less than I do and that is not a lot.
ItalianYiddo
Frank, the only time they have issued a statement that was a lie was when Levy stated that Modric would never be sold for any price. Any statement including Never or Always are destined to prove to be incorrect. Statements are rarely released. Had AVB quit, as some would suggest, Levy would have been dancing in the streets (I picture him spinning on his head on a sheet of cardboard), had AVB been fired he would have been doing all sorts of weird crouches at the kerb. Thankfully, neither occurred other than in my head and I am worse for it. I have no issues with people disliking ENIC etc (I have no financial interest in their company) but, calling him a liar goes a bit far. COYS
peterballb
Sandro has expressed a desire to play in Italy one day. He has not (that I am aware), since being at Spurs, stated he wants to go. I am sure he will stay unless a CL opportunity and better wages come his way. Sandro and Capoue are very similar players. We need two. No other player in the squad or that is being bandied about as a target, are anything like them. COYS
peterballb
We must do our very best to keep Capoue and Sandro, one or the other has to play, at times both. Injuries and suspensions will come at crucial times.
ItalianYiddo
ItalianYiddo, VB is not an idiot. He knew LB was an issue which is why we were in for Coentrao (another he wanted but did not get). Coentrao did not want to come to Spurs, so what are you going to do. Rose had done well at Sunderland. Fryers was there, as was Naughton for emergencies and then there was always Vertonghen. So, I think it's a little 20-20 o suggest we weren't covered at LB. Rose's injury affected our left side as much as Lennon's affected our right side. All of his offensive numbers were up there with Walker's and his defensive numbers were better. It was not the issue most made it out to be. We had far greater issues. COYS
peterballb
entwistle if that is the case why didn't the coach get the players he wanted, and why wasn't the LB issue addressed it was pivotal last season with Verts begrudgingly covering and then getting injured which resulted us playing Liverpool with a RB at LB and a midfielder at CB.
ItalianYiddo
I never claimed to be able tio do anything more than read what was actually released and to apply general knowledge about how contracts work and the general efferct of firing, quitting on obligations/restrictions. You, on the other hand are making crap up. But then, you have a name to earn. Heaven forfend that if we made more money and spent within our budget it would become economically unviable. I mean it defies all logic. But then please, illuminate me with all of your facts that suggest finishing higher requires one to spend more than your budget. I await edification. COYS
peterballb
Levy did not say that Bale would not be sold. You might want to check your facts on that one. COYS
peterballb
Depending on what you or I read, taking into consideration ''spurs media watch'' which relates to the same story over and over from various micky mouse web sites, Pooch is happy with the squad, we are over loaded and have to many and Pooch is looking to add more signings, that alone is very confusing to say the least. But the real test starts this weekend and it just happens to be against my least favourite team. Strange how Brenda gets his targets from soton, LVG gets Shaw and the minute we knock on the door, it's bolted firmly shut, even though Schneiderlin wants out, not knowing what is going on with Musacchio, who has been pulled from two friendly games after what looked to be a done deal, what ever that is? Still what ever Pooch does I'm with him all the way.
spu 4 life
Anyway Peter, any plans to hop over the pond for a game this season? I only have one ticket now but I'm sure we can sort some tickets out.
ItalianYiddo
Rex, there is no big difference, we spent £109m last season, brought us 7 new players, that is reinvestment.
Kong
ItalianYiddo, I would love to but I am not sure this will be the year. Going to PEI in a couple of weeks and may go to Disney this winter. Next trip after that will likely be back to Europe. Not sure if UK, Spain, France. Always a different thing with the two young ones if they come. May well be willing to offer some free labour in Italy. Always wanted to go to the southern end (only been as far as the Amalfi Coast. COYS
peterballb
I always love the "invested" argument, like that money doesn't come out of the budget. Have had the discussion many times. Slash wages by 50M per season and we can have a net spend of 50M every season. No biggie. The numbers all work in an economicallyviable model. FFPR allow a 5% net loss based on turnover, so we can afford a net loss on salaries and transfer fees of 7.5M to be recouped over the next two years. Don't spend it all in one place and make sure you can move the player you will be shifting next season to do the recouping part of it. I just love life without budgets. Arsenal sold over 250M worth of players over a decade and ran a transfer surplus in most of those seasons. What a crap organization. COYS
peterballb
Understand Peter, I see the boys have the sporting genes, no surprise. We will talk nearer the time when you are thinking of coming over, I think you would like Sicily.
ItalianYiddo
No, I said that's what his answer was when he came out of the board meeting. Journos ran it as I'm no quitter. So, no, I did not say that. Please direct me to that quote where he said no key players would be sold. AVB said that. Don't recall ENIC offering a comment such as that. They did, however, release a statement saying that no offer had been submitted for Bale and that contract negociations were under way with Bale's representatives. All of which, it seems was true. COYS
peterballb
Rex, fair enough, my bad. I still don't think there is much difference between recycling and investment with what happened last summer. We got over £100m in sales and the club decided to recycle that by buying players, you are investing in players whether you are using sale funds or not imo.
Kong
Well, if Eriksen is now worth double what we paid for him, is it recycled or re-invested? When I return my empties for recycling, I can't ever recall considering it an investment. Selling one player for 100M and using that money to buy 7 players seems an investment to me. Whether it works out or not remains to be seen, so it may be a poor re-investment or a great re-investment. Who knows. Bringing Jenas back would be recycling. Let's not go there. COYS
peterballb
The actual quote was "no key players will be sold this summer". That quote was from 2011 when Chelsea were trying to unsettle Modric after having illegally had abramovich meet him on his yacht. Guess what, he was not sold that summer and, to his word, no key players were sold that summer. COYS
peterballb
Figures are for the accountants to play with. Accountants know how to manipulate figures. It is interesting to note that Spurs usually seem to have a small operating profit. So where is all the money going? Don't forget that they have been buying property around WHL for years, so building up the fixed assets of the company, then buying back all the shares and de-listing themelves etc. Remember, Joe Lewis knows how to make money work for him. Whilst Danny boy is screwing the team up, Lewis is fattening the Spurs pig, waiting for the right time to sell his prize porker. There was no way that Levy was not going to spend the Bale money, if they hadn't it would be a huge profit for the club and the taxman would have been very happy. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if they didn't just buy some of the players just for the sake of it.
vicspur
spent 109m brought in 7 players....let 13 walk out and brought in 114m profit....didn't re-invest it all now did we...and as for a transfer budget that would just be too much to hope for from the team with the lowest net spend in the PL over the past 5years! no point wasting any of the ticket, TV or commercial revenue on players is there....
shedboy2
Vicspur, even if we didn't spend the bale money the club would still have got out of paying tax on that as it is not £100m pure profit. Enough of finance talk from me :)
Kong
You neither have quotes nor facts. Good for you. But then there is a name to uphold. Keep at 'er. For what it's worth, here's his quote, within quotation marks “It’s not my call. I can’t control that. I have to get down to work. That’s the only thing I can focus on. The call on that decision is not mine. I won’t resign and I’m not a quitter. The only thing I can do is work hard with the players and try and get the results back on track.” That quote was taken the evening before he left by mutual consent. He didn't resign. He didn't quit. Baldini did offer to resign though as a result of all of that. COYS
peterballb
As it is FACT, please, share. Just like the resignation one. Please share the quote. Not what others say they think the tea lady may have heard a boy at the bus stop say. The actual quote. He resigned from Porto. That's fact. COYS
peterballb
I agree Dembele should go if we get MS. Imagine Sandro and Capoue holding tough away at top 4 teams with holtby in front chasing everything. Plus Sandro is good for morale with his guitar & singing :) I'd keep Paulinho as keep saying he's got a goal in him and can pass..again Dembele falls short here- can only really beat a man but handy squad player if can't shift no doubt - I have sneaky feeling he'll go to Stoke. Speaking of Stoke - Bojan - he's looking good- always though he was prem style player, too direct for Barca. I'ts gonna be interesting but yes only 3 weeks and all will be revealed :) COYS
chavli
Spurs financial figures do not include other projects. NDP is a fully separate entity. At some point in time, the stadium will become part of the THFC assets while other NDP assets will likely remain ENIC holdings under a separate name with a separate budget, tax implications etc. Such items are not allowed in the inclusions of revenues as proscribed by UEFA and the EPL. They are separate. COYS
peterballb
shedboy2, there is a budget. It includes all things related to the playing side. As I have said, we can have a net transfer spend of 50M. It's not a problem. The money just needs to come from somewhere. Really, other than wages, the other costs (operating WHL, staff etc) are pretty much fixed costs, so you really can't take it out of there. 65-70 of all of our monies out the door are in the form of player wages (90-96M) depending on the season. It would be robbing me to pay Paul, but, theoretically, it could be done. COYS
peterballb
He was fired, we all know it. Sacked! Given the push. His contract was terminated. He was not wanted anymore. He got the elbow, the boot, the old heave-ho. They showed him the door! Or did they? Who are we talking about, again? Who cares!?..... Too many player's eh?
MAN ON!
While Canadians are reknowned for apologizing for nothing, nothing in your statement says what you said it did. Nowhere did he say that he would not sell Bale. Nowhere did he say he would not sell key players. Clearly, as the season ended, they had no intention of selling Bale which was what was said until about August 28 when it became clear he was gone. Since he had already signed for them and no longer wanted to stay, I'd say that it had little to do with the owner's or the coach's intentions. Again, please show me the quote where he stated that he would not sell Bale. It does not exist because he did not utter it in the press. As an aside, they "intended" to start the season with Caulker, but they didn't "intend" for him to disrespect the owner's grand-daughter, such that the owner allegedly had him short-listed for immediate sale. You see, because ENIC don't intend to sell players does not mean that players will not insist on leaving. Not much that can be done about it but get your ridiculous valuation and move on. In brief, they sought to keep their key players, and but for one who sought to leave, they succeeded at keeping the rest. Hardly anything anyone can consider a lie, unless of course you have a statement from him saying he will not, under any circumstances, consider selling Bale. COYS
peterballb
Yes, far too many players. Even more if more come in. Less if some go out. Will still require loans, so will still be too many. By mutual consent is contractual. They came to an agreement to put an end to their relationship. It is two-sided. Quitting and firing are one-sided. COYS
peterballb
peterbalb - we can have a net spending of £50m but we won't based on history. I think we'll be happy to spend big on Schneiderlin, Musacchio and Rodriguez / Depay but it won't be without some rebalancing. I can see us recouping over £20-30m with a couple of senior exits.
muttley
Rex - why are you boring us with this nonsense? Who cares? Who even takes these types of statements on official football sites without a pinch of salt anyway? If I was offered £84m for Bale, I would have backtracked on any statement I made as well even if it wasn't my intention. Get over it. This thread is about looking forward, not backwards.
muttley
fack off from this site and take your job advertisement elsewhere.this is a footy site
tarkan mardinCOYS
well said muttley.boring as fack
tarkan mardinCOYS
TennisCoach thanks for the weather check, any ideas why if it is not cooler they choose to play the tournament at such a ridiculous time, I haven't googled it but I don't think it even co-insides with winter breaks?
T.H.F.Chris
You are taking a stated intention for the future and attributing a guarantee above and beyond what it states as if there is nothing that can affect it. He did not say he would not sell Bale (a categorical statement) nor did he say he would not sell any key players (another categorical statement). He stated, as things stood in May 2013, they did not intend to sell any key players. No lies. No semantics. The words mean what they say in the context in which they were stated. You still have no facts or quotes that specifically say what you say Levy said. COYS
peterballb
Thing is it doesn't matter what Levy says or even wants, when Real Madrid come knocking with a world record bid for one of your players, then said player refuses to play/turn up you kinda know he is going...
T.H.F.Chris
Absolutely shocked that Lennon- arguably the weakest of weakest links isn't on most people's transfer out list. His lack of goals, complete lack of assists or created chances over many seasons are testament to his inability. Is it because he's English, coz for me, he is a wasted position on the field.
van der haart lane
Yes about spending shedboy, and to be fair that stadium really will pay for itself without a bit of belt-tightening here and there. We should go mental on the purchases, it's only £400m+ of debt, pretty sure a whip-round on here could drum-up a tenner or two. Get Falcao or whoever in now, most individual people on here could go without food for a few decades to cover the costs. Is our situation different for other clubs at this exact point in time? Of course, widen the angle of your small-picture maybe. I'm glad you don't run my business, losses year on year seems an achievement in your eyes.
Crissybwoy
muttley is spot-on. The money was too good to turn down, I don't think he's worth more than Ronaldo, quality player but at THAT price? Madness to say no.
Crissybwoy
There are times when this site bogs down into tedious disputes. Now is one of them. The club never promised not to sell Bale but they seem to have stated an intention not to. Divide the baby in half, and let's more on to something more edifying, please. (coys)
Falstaff the Fool
Is that you Total Knobhead? Judging by your last sentence, custody must be a breeze for both parents.
Crissybwoy
Hello there, Crissybwoy.


TK

Falstaff the Fool
By the way, TK isn't Total Knobhead, but two thirds of In The Know, ITK.


Well, OK, TK is a totally knobheaded fool.

Falstaff the Fool
and with 50% of marriages ending in divorce, there's a lot of split-the-difference custody arrangements. They tend to breeze through family courts, me old son.
Falstaff the Fool
It has nothing to do with sawing the baby in half. When you are attributing statements to someone and then calling them a liar, you owe that person to get it correct. It's far too easy to impugn someone from behind a keyboard. If the comments are well wide of the mark, I will call people on it. I intended to do a couple of hours of gardening tonight. After about 20 minutes, the amount of mosquitoes made it unbearable, so I came in. It didn't make me a liar. Conditions changed. Such is life. Levy and ENIC did not lie. They were unable to follow through with their intention vis-a-vis Bale as he wanted out and RM were willing to meet our ridiculous valuation. Some may buy that Harry Redknapp's dog had a bank account which he opened, but it doesn't mean I have to ignore reality. COYS
peterballb
I always respected your posts for at least being coherent, self-proclaimed knob-head or not. Two-thirds of "in the know" is knowing slightly less than those that know people who know what is knowledge, but not by those that don't necessary know what the people with knowledge know or imagine or deny that they know, or indeed any further knowing than that, even if it's just so other persons peoples' don't necessarily know what they think they know about things to know. At least not in public anyway. That's all I know.
Crissybwoy
Ha ha Crissybwoy. I was just playing with the letters in TK and ITK. At any rate, I've consistently referred to myself as a knobhead and a fool, but the tradition I've had in mind is to be a fool in the sense of the court jester. In truth, I've not any inside information about much of anything and didn't mean to convey otherwise. And by the way, if ITK has something to do with TK, than those who claim in public to have special inside knowledege are knobheaded fools.


Peter, chill. You made your point about the issue of what Levy did or didn't say and whether he is or is not a liar. Now move on, mate. We got your side of it already. It's past being tedious to go back to it again and again. Although, keep it up, if that's what you're inclined to do. Your choice, and I don't get to decide what you do, but just saying... My opinion is that it's long past tedium. But what do I know (I'm not an ITK). I'm just a knobheaded old fool formerly known as TK, but never known as ITK.

Falstaff the Fool
Ah, and Crissybwoy: Well spotted that Falstaff the Fool is the reincarnation of Total Knobhead. Somehow as I changed computers some months ago I found that what I thought was my old TK password didn't work anymore, so I thought it a sign that it was time to change my identity. But Clark Kent cannot become the Hulk and Bruce Banner cannot become Superman, so I tried to slide into a new identity that saved the essence of the old. Surely Falstaff the Fool continues to be a Total Knobhead, no? My super power is that as a knobheaded fool I am impervious to insult and can avoid the wrath of the King. You say something foolish and Ox offs your head, but me... ? So, one and all, save your energy and don't bother attacking me for saying knobheaded things, fool that I am.
Falstaff the Fool
Glad to hear you won't be telling me what to do. You also had at least one incarnation before Total Knobhead, did you not? Would gladly have dropped it. The King would not and when one goes personal, that's the way she blows. Too many enjoy the anti-Levy rant irrespective of facts. Surely there are enough facts to support such a position. That's all. COYS
peterballb
Peter, you act at times as though this site were a debating society where one should present facts and a logical argument, and that failing to do so on all occasions requires prosecution. But what this site really provides is not a debating society but an ongoing, daily group therapy session. An old fashioned put-style emotional rant cannot be held to the standards of an Oxbridge debate. Not everyone here signed on to provide statistical analyses and related interpretations, nor to provide citations for quotes. Not everyone here keeps meticulous records and not everyone planned to Google the quotes on demand when they said what was on their mind originally. Those are your standards, but not always shared by others when they state their take on matters. This is like a pub, not a court room. Sometimes when I'm reading through a thread I think, my God, I'm in the middle of a cross-examination by the Queen's Council; I thought I'd find a darts match here.
Falstaff the Fool
Damned auto correct function. That was intended to be "pub-style" emotional rant... I'm not sure what "put-style" would be, unless on a golf site.
Falstaff the Fool
One Hundred and Eighty!
MAN ON!
I'd hold the guy in the pub to the same standard. Rant away. No worries. Call someone a liar while inventing quotes is humorous in its irony until others start playing along as if it is gospel. As in a pub, at work, at home, I'll call BS when it is BS. COYS
peterballb
LOL. MAN ON. I was also thinking 180!! Great minds.
Madaboutspurs
Spanish ITK now reporting despite Villareal signing a replacement for Musacchio they have offered him a new deal with similar salary. Agger it is then. COYS
Chelmspur
Pear-shaped?!
Geofspurs
shedboy2 sum sums the whole situation at THFC up when he writes, "spent 109m brought in 7 players....let 13 walk out and brought in 114m profit....didn't re-invest it all now did we...and as for a transfer budget that would just be too much to hope for from the team with the lowest net spend in the PL over the past 5years! no point wasting any of the ticket, TV or commercial revenue on players is there...." There you have it, summed to perfection by Shed on how ENIC failed to take out the Arsenal when they were clinging onto their Champions League status for their dear life's because they were drowning in stadium debt and were forced to sell their star players, at a time we were totally debt free, and riding hi in the Champions League. To coincide with this wonderful opportunity Lewis decided to create a zero net spend policy, rather than invest any of the clubs money, (CL revenue, shirt sponsorship, Puma, or stadium revenue) into the team, totally cut spending, and we missed the best opportunity in the entire Sugar/Enic era to take out our bitter rivals and fight for the title! This is the truth! And now the Arsenal are back, and pumping hundreds of millions into the team, winning silverware and their fans are back to laughing at us again, don't see us as threat anymore. And why would they with ENIC running the show? They love ENIC...The huge RED AIA logo sums it ENIC up. Arsenal Is Arsenal...
Pele10
RAF - you'd replace someone with a player that you're admitting is 'not as good', simply because they're a cheaper option? That makes no sense, we're not in a poor financial position....sorry, but getting rid of a proven goalscorer for someone not as good just to save 20k a week is, in my opinion, absolutely laughable
King26
Sorry for lack of post match articles of late. Laptop finally gave up so have to go and get a replacement. Hope to be sorted ready for the curtain raiser this weekend.
Cider spurs
Cider- at least you'll be ready for the curtain raiser -shame about our squad!
shedboy2
So pochettino wants to sell five players from his squad and you lot are discussing selling Gareth Bale!? You guys really have your fingers on the pulse!
Slurms McKenzie
The thing that bothers me isn't so much the fact that we didn't reinvest all of the money in signings. After all, 109 million is a lot of money to spend on transfers and we can't complain there. The problem is the fact that the players brought in haven't made a difference yet. Yet is the important word. I still believe the 7 players we bought last year should get one more year to prove their worth. Sure, you expect instant impact from expensive signings, but the lack of preseason, numerous managers and systems/philosophies and overall lack of cohesion don't help. Signing 7 players and expecting them to all start means a massive change in the starting 11, with no understanding between the players. We are already seeing some signs of improvement, I feel, notably between Soldado and Lamela, who probably understand that their futures are linked and their success and future at WHL are largely dependent on how they perform together.
BelgianSpur
entwistle, the points Shed and I have raised are directly related to the article, the magnificent 7, (which the writer of this article raises) the state of the current THFC squad. To many players maybe, but not enough quality players...
Pele10
Another day passes, the CB issue still exists, Walker to miss the start of the season with his pelvic injury, yet there is still no word re. Musacchio or Vertonghen's new dael, or any other transfer business, either in or out, what are we paying Baldini for. We can assume that the Musacchio deal, the Schneiderlin chase, both of which have gone on forever in true Spurs fashion, and it appears even the "close" deal for the American full back, must now be doubtful, with no alternatives apparently in the fire. The start is now 5 days away, and the window closes only 19 days away, we still have our obvious problems, and we are still as far away from solving them as we were in May, after the last game, apart from the signing of LB Davies and 2nd GKer Vorm. Apart from last summer when we appear to have suffered a temporary lapse of policy and actually signed 7 players, alright with probably the wrong 4 or 5 a among them, but we appeared to be making an effort. but we have now reverted to type, ignoring problems, and on a gradual decline, from 4th to 5th to 6th, where to this season. Every team must improve in every window, to do nothing and stand still, is to go backwards, true for a football club, or indeed any business, stagnation is not an option. It is interesting to see that the team that won the league were far from satisfied and have made 6 signings. The team finishing 2nd have signed 7 and counting, the third have made significant investment, the 4th have also signed additional quality, the 5th have made the loan deal of a quality striker permanent, and I will concede may struggle, but we in 6th place last season, one above Man Utd who are also signing players, appeared to have failed to sign a CB, so we will limp along with Kaboul, until he breaks down again (72 starts in 4.5 years), Dawson a mid table CB plodder, and Chiriches, a mistake waiting to happen, and Dier, a young un for the future. We will rely on strikers Adebayor (ACN issues), providing he is motivated, our non scoring, £26M penalty king, and rookie Harry Kane. Apart from last season, we are back to normal. We seem to believe that Pochettino's arrival, in spite of his less than impressive history, two managerial appointments, one team got relegated, one finished 8th in the league, will suddenly turn water into wine at Spurs, we shall see, but miricles rarely happen in football.
Frank
King, not just money, less attitude. Ade, no potential except to go on strike, sulk and spend 4 weeks recovering from ACN. Benteke may not be as good, sometimes sulk but I fancy him to do a better job for Spurs.
RAF Yid
Frank, The reason for lack of transfer activity this summer? Simple! Levy has not been as yet been able to raise revenue from the sells of players this summer as he did last summer. Has not been able to sell Sandro, Pauli etc as yet, no one has come in with an offer he cant refuse for the likes of Ericksen who none of the top clubs in Europe are yet convinced is a world class player, so Levy will have to wait another season or so to raise revenue from him... Shed sums the situation up when he writes "no point wasting any of the ticket, TV or commercial revenue on players is there...."
Pele10
Only need one player. A Goalscorer. A few can go..in various ways. Kaboul, judging by the summer ....i.e...been playing plenty and training pretty much full on.....looks to be over his Knee problem. Quality....it's almost all there. Good management / coaching....is now required.
82spursdebut
Lack of transfer activity !!??.....what you talking about !!??.....we signed 3....and sold at least 3 ( Gomes, Livermore, Sigurdsson)
82spursdebut
Frank - In the words you used it reads like pure pessimism. What we actually have is a superb number 2 keeper to compete with Lloris. We have a fully fit Kaboul with a pre-season behind him and a promising youngster in Dier that should negate Dawson even having to pull on shirt. We also have competition at LB and 2 guys slugging it out for the jersey. We also have 7 newish players with a season behind them and guys like Lennon looking like they have a new lease in life. We also have Lamela fit and available for the first time. We have a new manager with a football philosophy that Spurs fans should enjoy based on what we've seen in the past from him. We also still have some time to freshen up the squad before the window. You might be right in that we finish 6th but now we're the underdogs. Surely we should be cautiously optimistic that we're heading in the right direction. We won't get instant success but we should now get some stability and trend in the right direction. We've been in free fall since Harry took a bunch of short term decisions on the playing staff and left us with a huge squad with some very average players. He got out just before he would have been absolutely slated by us fans. Like all Spurs fans, I'd love us to be competing right at the very top. We're probably at least a season away from that but there's still reasons to be very optimistic. Just not having to see Sherwood's mug on the TV every week is one !!!
muttley
Slums - Are we selling Bale again? Levy masterstroke or what. Who or What is AVB? Looking forward to taking 3pts off the claret and blue scum at the weekend, that's my only concern.
spu 4 life
82 spurs - I said that Spurs would remove 10 this summer. The 3 you mentioned plus Falque are 4. I still reckon 6 more out. Khumalo and Ekotto will be 2 of them. We'll see one of the other younger players go like Carroll, Ceballos, Fredericks, Mason etc and then there will be 3 senior players that leave. Poch might make a mistake or two with releasing good players but he has no choice. The squad is too big.
muttley
I'd swap Townsend for Remy in a flash! If we had to top it with cash then so be it......wouldn't let Kane go just yet...
shedboy2
Frank – It’s frustrating that the deal for the Villarreal bloke is dragging on but I don’t really think that’s our fault. What do you suggest…..pay them his 47m release clause to make everyone happy!! We have made a very fair offer, the struggle is Villarreal getting the 3rd party owner to lower their share of the deal. I know its waaaaayyy too early to say but Dier really impressed against Schalke, if the worst comes to worst if (when) Kaboul gets injured Jan would have to go on the right side and Dier slot in in the left. Not ideal in any way as we really do need to ship out 2 of Daws chiriches Kabs and bring in a new CB to pair with Jan

The schnderlien deal is dead in the water, he isn’t going, simple as. The real annoying deal is for Yedlin. What the F id the hold up here, he has pretty much said he’s coming, his manager has, I just don’t understand why it has dragged on (as in being “nearly done”) for over a week. Regarding the striker situation, unl;ess Ade or Soldado leaves I don’t think we can accommodate another playing the system we are. The only other option would be to sell Kane and bring in “the next drogba”…….again! Just don’t see the point in that. IF Eriksen, Lamela, Paulinho and Lennon all chip in I think we are fine up front.
hudderspur
Crissybwoy- that's exactly my point - not only a whip round on here but the THFC fans will be paying off the stadium debt together with the profit ENIC make for a generation (how long will the extra 20k capacity take to pay off half a billion debt?)....it's a millstone project, not one that will propel us any further up the food-chain...as for going mental on purchases no need, even a modest net spend of 5-10m pa would have seen us be able to afford the players we need to improve...and I doubt your business could afford me, shame as I’d take you a level or two up…;)
shedboy2
Yes, Exactly.....Shedboy 2....you wanna start watching Spurs and not Chelski !!...lol
82spursdebut
I disagree with Frank on his outlook, but I will say this: Levy needs to sort out this Musacchio thing. He looks quality, we need a CB, and the potential gain of having two quality CB's should mean more to the club (both financially and performance-wise) than the amount between the two sides. Get. It. Done. If we only sign one player it should be a CB, and Musacchio looks about as good as we can attract and/or pay at this moment.
BelgianSpur
muttley writes, "We've been in free fall since Harry took a bunch of short term decisions on the playing staff and left us with a huge squad with some very average players." Free fall??? As the final whistle blew in Harry's last ever game as head coach of THFC, he for the second occasion in his 3 full seasons took the club to the Champions League, only to be the only coach in the entire history of the CL to be denied the right to go into the competition because another team (Chelsea) had won the Champions League. No other coach will ever have to endure this disgraceful treatment again as the rule has since been banned! As for taking the club into free fall, it was Levy, not Harry who broke up that successful CL squad selling it's 3 stars players, VDV, Modric and Bale with the space of twelve months of Harry's sacking, and other important players thereafter... Still the ENIC apologists come on here trying to blame the most successful coach in the ENIC era (in terms of the Premier League and CL) for the clubs demise, since his departure...
Pele10
BelgianSpur- you may have missed it but we have already signed a CB!...we now have too many CB's...
shedboy2
And you Pele10...wanna start supporting THFC and not all the other London Clubs !!!!!!...lol
82spursdebut
What pubs do you Mad and MAN ON drink in, I was thinking 18.
T.H.F.Chris
82spursdebut, I love my Spurs! Am Tottenham till I die... But I will continue to study and learn from the enemy! The AFC board and owners are a class above are own, so much to be learn from them. Why? Because no matter what business you’re in, you will benefit greatly from studying your competition. Just take a look at the world’s best—athletes, entrepreneurs, executives, and etc.—and you’ll see that they all make studying their competition part of their routine. Kobe Bryant watches videos of his opponents before games, and Sam Walton visited stores that competed with Walmart. Why do the world’s best do this? Because it works!!! Daniel Levy and Joe Lewis refuse to do so, which is why they continue to fail... Have different motives than on the pitch success for owning THFC, which is why they refuse to look and learn... Are not interested!
Pele10
In a two horse race.....one wins and the other comes 2nd, fact of life.
82spursdebut
It's not horse racing and a draw is always a possibility. A dead heat, if you like?
MAN ON!
Hudderspur, how do you know what we have offered, or, what the release clause is, where is the information coming from, nowt from the club, at least not officially, is it "Red Top" guessing games or a bit of bollox being "leaked" or "fed out" from the Spurs PR machine. If it is so difficult then rather than waste weeks pi$$ing about, kick the deal into touch and look elsewhere, or is this the only CB in Europe or Sth America that our esteemed DOF has on file, incidentally what the bloody hell does he do, not much by the look of it. The way we are going, or not going, we will waste the rest of the window and end up where we are now, square one, there is just no urgency in this bloody club.
Frank
You miss the point Man on......mind you do get half a point to a point..if you draw. I.e...THFC...are Not losers...spurs fans are not losers...Levy / enic are not losers. You are only a loser..if you think you are a loser....and as a spurs fan....I do not wish to be called a loser and that should go for all spurs fans and including Pele10. We Finished 6th of 90 ish teams. Better than some, not as good as others.....can do better.
82spursdebut
Where does it say anywhere that Spurs have a zero net spend policy? I have never read that. We do end every season with a nominal profit or loss and our turnover remains at about 150M and we pay about 65-70% in wages. A decade ago our wage bills ran about 35% of turnover, so clearly there was more room for net spends (which we used to have on a yearly basis despite being a mid-table team). the only policy of which I am aware (not stated, but is certainly applied) is the one where our revenues will balance out our expenditures. So again, the money must come out of somewhere. lower the wage bill and we can spend lots on players we can't pay. I can pretty much guarantee, that as our turnover increases, our wage bill will increase as that is the only way to get and retain the better players. I fully expect a more or less balanced transfer policy. If we can sell on players like Hudd, Livermore etc for decent amounts, and we continue to buy young talent, it should be able to balance. I don't understand why it is an issue to spend within our means. If we were to get Schneiderlin for 17M and we sold one of the MF'ers for 17M to make room, how is that a bad thing? What is bad about selling Livermore, Sigurdsson, Defoe and bringing in Dier, Davies and Vorm? Are we not better off having sold surplus players to bring in players to solidify our depth and perhaps bring in a future starting LB and CB? The only questions I ask at the close of every window is, did we improve the squad and have we gotten rid of any excess players. That's it. COYS
peterballb
82spursdebut.. It was a joke..
MAN ON!
Pele, you have not studied Arsenal at all. they are owned by Kroenke who holds Sports properties in the US and in the UK. It is all about increasing the value of the investment and, if possible, having it generate revenue. Be a Colorado Avalanche fan where the club spends as little as they are allowed because the Kroenke family does not wish to put one cent from their pockets in to an organization that for a decade was one of the best in the entire NHL winning two Stanley Cups. Rams last made the playoffs in 2004. Yes, Arsenal won a Cup last season after years of disappointment, but when was their last Title? CL? What has Kroenke done to make Arsenal better than Chelsea and City? The answer is nothing. He is appreciating the asset, the same as most of the top club owners out there. MLSE is one of the most successful ownership groups out there for appreciating their investments. Success, as any Maple Leafs Fan can tel you, is way in the rear-view mirror. 1967. And guess what, Spurs have partnership deals with RM and TFC (owned by MLSE). I wonder why that is? Synergies and studying other business models to make your business model better. I guess they are already doing what you suggest they ought to be doing. Funny, if you just take the time to look, they are not as incompetent as they seem (though they need to figure out the hiring and firing of coach thing). COYS
peterballb
82spursdebut, It's all a question of perspective! Arsenal and Chelsea fans consider themselves winners, and regular Champions League competitors. Just look at their honors list since ENIC acquired themselves THFC on the cheap along with that worst trophy per season percentage of any THFC owner since world war two percentage they have created. You may not want to call ENIC losers but you can't hide the fact they have been the worst THFC owners since world war two in terms of winning silverware. We Tottenham fans have had to accept that the clubs two main local competitors dominate us both on and off the pitch. Your OK with that, hundreds of thousands of Spurs fans are not! Just look at the thousands of posts on here every week from Spurs fans voicing their disapproval of how ENIC are running THFC. I accept we are a none successful club, have been the opposite of winners since ENIC and Sugar have run us going right back to our last big win in terms of level of trophy in 1991, the FA Cup which Arsenal won in May this year. A 23 year difference in time. They have won 4 FA Cups since ENIC came! Look in any thesaurus or dictionary the Antonyms for winner are Loser and failure. I accept the FACT that my team, the 12 richest club on the entire planet have become a losing football club since ENIC arrived. I want THFC to WINNERS because that's the business of playing BIG TIME competitive commercial sport! Did you not so those dirty Gooners going crazy when they won the FA Cup in May? No glory with ENIC...
Pele10
I would keep Dembele, but think it will be quite easy to offload some - even if on loan. Bae,Kane need to be gone or loaned at least to prove himself in kanes case. If possible, I would try to sell Paulinho and if money in the table for Sandro ( and a year ago I would not have contemplated) I would sell Sandro to allow us to keep Carroll. Coys
Windlespur
Keep kaboom as when over his injuries and fit, he is our fastest, strongest and most commanding centre half. Dawson to go before kaboul.
Windlespur
Pele - just a question. What players in the squad would you get rid off, as that is what the article is about - not u our response above......
Windlespur
Funny - everyone saying get rid of Charities and kaboul. Diet is a great acquisition and CB is a weak area, but surely those two above are head and shoulders above Dawson.
Windlespur
AAHHH...thanks Pele10..supposed THFC supporter for letting us know that we not the No.1 London club. Really spoilt my appetite. I know...I know....I should blame Enic / Levy ..for that !! ;-)
82spursdebut
peterballb,you tell me I have not studied Arsenal? Well here is a quick summary as I have to rush off to a meeting. The history of Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur during the 14 seasons of ENIC. Champions League Qualification. AFC - 14, THFC - 1, Honors (silverware) AFC - 2 Premiership titles, 4 FA Cups. THFC 1 League Cup. Stadium. Arsenal have built and moved into their new stadium 7 seasons ago. THFC have not even raised the budget to build their new stadium 15 seasons after Daniel Levy announced increasing capacity of the stadium on their arrival was an urgent requirement... Can you hear the ENIC sing???
Pele10
Sorry Pele, nothing in what you stated shows that you have studied how Arsenal are run at all. You are compaing a team that was valued at almost half a Billion who had a stadium constructed and lament that yor less than 100M team could not just go out and build a 450M stadium. It's all in the numbers. Now we are worth what Arsenal was back then and we can move forward. Plannings and permits are all in place and CPO has gone through. Initial stages are already generating revenue which will be used to offset financing charges, uncle Joe has promised 150M towards the project and we will not have to sell players to fund our build, unlike Arsenal. The entire NDP is costed and funded and will, as has been stated in every press release that you clearly choose to not believe, not affect the product on the pitch as they are two different streams. On the pitch revenues will continue to go in to the club. Yes, it would have been lovely 15 years ago when we were a mid-table team worth less than 100M. But this is not Fantasy Island and that is not the plane boss. It's a crane working on NDP. COYS
peterballb
Pele10, it's cyclical. If one just took the past 9 seasons we have won as many cups as they have. We still have won more European titles than they have and that's just cold hard fact. They lucked out with the PL and the CL timing, all of which was etched in stone before ENIC bought the team. He hasn't caught up as quickly as you would like. Got it. Just so you are aware, the new stadium will not bridge the gap either. Only success will do that and that is where the achilles heel of ENIC comes in. They just can't manage to select and back a manager and allow them the time to win. That is my only issue with them. I don't think we need a net spend or ridiculous wages to achieve that. We just need a plan and we need to see it through. COYS
peterballb
Peter selecting the right manager is so far definitely where ENIC have let us down. After AVB (right decision to sack him but let's not go into that) we should have gone for a proven manager (imho) instead of an up and coming one, Mancini, Benitez, etc... Thing with Poch is Levy knows he won't demand expensive players and will toe the line.. This is the last chance I give Levy, if Poch is sacked in 18 months and we are back to sq one I will be taking Pele's arguements to WHL. For now it's COYS, MP's blue and white army!!
T.H.F.Chris
Peterbalb, "all the permits are in place", "the CPO has been completed" ( not strictly true as I understand that Archway Steel may seek the right to appeal), of course I could be wrong. The key question is, as we sit here now on 12/08/2014, how many bricks have been laid on the football stadium, rather than the Sainsbury super market, I would hazard a guess at zero, this after how many years from announcing that the raising of stadium capacity was a priority of the owners. Will we be told what the finish date is, not a best guess, or an estimate, we need a date on which Levy would be prepared to stake his credibility and authority on, as I had to do many times as a manufacturing manager in the engineering industry, to keep customers informed of realistic and accurate delivery dates. This project just drags on and on due to a lack of pressure being applied to those hampering it's progress, and on the person allegedly managing it.
Frank
I would dare to suggest that if the project management of the new stadium build had been in Japanese or American hands, there would by now had been a good amount of arse kicking, threatening, and a fair amount of palm crossing going on, and the occasional bung changing hands, but I wager that the new stadium build would be a lot further on, or even completed by now.
Frank
Right decision to sack AVB? Maybe if Ancelotti, Mourinho, VDG, Conte, Mancini, Guardiola or even Rodgers were queing up. Sherwood? Would make you laugh if it didn't make you want to cry.
ItalianYiddo
A plan sounds good Peter, has Levy got one? Does he have a project? Do we have a philosophy? We or should I say he, sacks a coach to replace him with another who has a complete style of play to the previous and then sacks him to replace him another that has a similar style to the one he sacked before the last one. Bit of an iffy plan.....
ItalianYiddo
Italian, Manchini and Benitez were interested, loads of press about it at the time but any I quote you'd just say is paper talk... Point is though you don't expect them to be queuing up for spurs, you expect spurs to go out and get them!!
T.H.F.Chris
Mancini and Benitez were possibily gettable, proven, have won everywhere they have coached, at this moment in time they would have been the right choice. Of course proven managers would want assurances of no interference, budgets etc, not sure Levy would oblige.
ItalianYiddo
Agree mate, kinda my point that Levy goes for the safe option I.e. safe for him... This I believe has been the only area he has let us down (stadium/spend I am not too disappointed with), but management selection and backing them is probably the most important area, has to have got it right with Poch this time, COYS
T.H.F.Chris
Hopefully he has stumbled on the right coach, hope so, going to be embarassing to see another premature sacking. He seems to get the players on board, will be interesting to see how Ade fares, we all need to pull in the right direction, fans, players and management even when things are not going well.
ItalianYiddo
One good thing we have got is a lot of players with potential, if he is the best man of turning that potential we could be in for a very good season.. Eriksen, Lamela, Walker, Rose, even Lennon are potentially exceptional players, think he might have to replace Dawson though.
T.H.F.Chris
Dier looks to be a bargain, hoping we hold onto him. It really is fascinating to see all the opinions on here. I agree with one thing, then i read another response and its almost the dead opposite of what i just read, yet it also sounds reasonable. There's not just one way to do it and i cant even imagine how hard it would be to all be on the same page in terms of the back room staff and hierarchy of the club. It plays such a huge role, the trickle down success is always evident. More than anything i hope MP can bring stability to this club of ours. Its not a word usually associated with Tottenham but now more than ever we need that. Dier, Davies and Vorm is a solid start but we need either a proven striker or another CB but i dont think we can or will get both. The question i ask is do i currently trust the 3 strikers more right now than i trust the 5 CB's we have at the moment and my answer is always we need a defender more than a striker. MP's system feeds into midfielders scoring goals, we have the players capable of doing that and if it clicks this really could be an amazing team to love and watch week in and week out. Soldado cant possibly be worse than he was last year, i loved his link up play and assists and he has lots of great attributes but we signed him to score goals, lots of them and he knows that. Better year for him, Kane needs to be given a chance. IDK what it is about him but he always does something i notice when he's playing on or off the ball and that cant always be said for a striker, look no further than Defoe, Pav, Crouch etc.....Musacchio would be ideal so hoping that wraps up soon as these teams around us as previously pointed out are only getting stronger. This league as a whole is getting tougher all the time and we cant lose ground, period. Five days til we can get some much needed revenge on the spammers. Cant imagine the doom and gloom on here saturday afternoon if we draw or lose. Please god let us put the pedal down and lay the wood to them at their place. Support the club fellas, its a long season. Dont shoot your loads too early now :) COYS.
YankeeSpur23
Now Peter is telling us that Arsenal "lucked out with the PL and the CL timing"... So Arsenal have been lucky to qualify and maintain CL status during the entire ENIC period? And those 4 FA Cups and 2 Premiership titles were lucky too? They were also lucky to stuff the team with the richest owner in the land to lift the charity shield last weekend were they? And I guess your going to tell me that the reason 'Lucky Arsenal' built their stadium 7 seasons (and counting...) ahead of us was because they were lucky not to have an Archway Steel blocking their path, or an owner who refuses to loan money from a bank to build a stadium??? Get your head out of the ENIC sand Peter. Denial is not a river in Egypt...
Pele10
According to today's Telegraph, "Tottenham Hotspur are willing to listen to offers for an entire team’s worth of players in their desperate attempt to cut down the size of Mauricio Pochettino’s squad. Andros Townsend and Aaron Lennon are among the 11 players who face uncertain futures before the transfer window shuts at the end of the month..." And there is the real reason we have not seen any top quality expensive players arrive at the Lane this summer. The clubs entire zero net spend transfer policy is based around the selling of the clubs players to raise revenue to buy players, unlike clubs like Chelsea, Arsenal etc who use their stadium revenue, their CL revenue, their TV money, merchandising revenue, stadium revenue, shirt sponsorship revenue, as well as the money they bring in from the sells of players etc to purchase players... The only revenue available to the Spurs coach is through the the sells of his players... All Spurs become used car sells men on their arrival. If only Poch could sell his players on Ebay...
Pele10
And why the lack of sells? is it due to the quality of players on offer? Or is because football chairman throughout the land are tired, (fed up) of doing business with Daniel Levy???
Pele10
 

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