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Tim Says; No Top Four!

To some it will be just sour grapes, but Tim Sherwood, claims we are a top striker away from being a top four team this season, but to others, he will be spot on.

Perhaps this article is and should be far beyond the opinion of a former employee, however, I think that if we are honest, our realistic status is more top six that the Champions league top four, whether that is due to a lack of class at the top of the team or just a general lack of quality or something else.

Even when we consider that Chelsea look have done some exceptional business and balanced the books, the others of the Manchester`s, Liverpool and Arsenal have spent around £240m more than they have recouped, whilst only Southampton have made more from their summer activity that we have.

Spending money is of course, no guarantee of success, but history shows it helps a hell of a lot and is is becoming harder and harder, just to keep on track with the nations elite beyond the short term, without the ability to but big and buy the best?

Some will point to Spain and last seasons superb season for Athletico Madrid, however will they back that up and beat Barca and Real again after their mass spending and Athletico`s more Spurs like balancing of the books? Time will tell, but whats the betting that they return to the pool below Spain`s massive two sooner rather than later.

Sadly, I always judge a teams long term potential on its ability to spend and then its status in the game. No Champions league is an obvious negative, however if you are a Manchester United, you can get away with it for a while, just as long as you have the ability to pay massive wages and still be seen as playing for an elite club.

Have Spurs ever been seen as a club that might make the breakthrough, as opposed to a club that are most definitely the big four? Its almost always been that we might make the four into a five, but we were always the most likely 5th member and being the Pete Best of football isn`t exactly being a Beatle.

So for me, I will go with a disappointing but realistic 6th place for Spurs this season. My top places are Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, United, Spurs. I can potentially see United pipping Arsenal, however, I can also see Everton nicking our sixth place if we don`t make the required progression. What about you?..




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The journalist

Writer: OxfordSpur Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Thursday September 4 2014

Time: 8:22AM

Your Comments

Who's Tim?
MAN ON!
Stating the obvious ! does anyone thing we can ? a poll would be good ?
South L/Derry Spurs
Man on , C'mon you know Tim ! Statistically our best manager ever
South L/Derry Spurs
Can't argue much with your prediction of top teams, Ox.
Geofspurs
Tim Says; No Top Four!- finally he get's something right....and OX you seem to be writing off Spurs for the future....a real shame as we finished top4 twice recently but the owners we are so lucky to have (cough, how nice of them to make millions off the back of THFC) would not invest in a couple of quality players...there was of course no guarantee that would have got us CL again but it looked likely at the time and it looks likely in hindsight....we might be able to scrape something out this season but I hope we all enjoy mid table and winning just the odd big game-as that looks likely given the current set up. can we see the like of Lloris, Verts and (if fit) walker staying next year?...just a shame our owners threw in the towel....
shedboy2
I haven’t seen a Spurs team as exciting to watch as the 2010 team since the sixties. Okay we’ve had a few good times in between but I loved the way we played and the players that we had four years ago. I really thought we were close to title contenders. It fell apart for lots of reasons, none of which are worth discussing because it’s history, and now I’m resigned to waiting until the next time we are genuine contenders. In the meantime I’ll watch and enjoy every game we play without depressing myself with unrealistic expectations. But, just imagine my joyful surprise if we did manage top four this season. Anything can happen in football ... it's a statistical fact!
Geofspurs
It looks like the mouth of the season competition will be between Arry, LVG and TS!
Geofspurs
If they become PL class it will be good enough.
Geofspurs
I have no expectation on where we should finish this season... My hope is that we can see noticeable improvements in our general play, our attitude and our team ethic. Results, win, lose or draw, do not necessarily reflect these things. Sometimes things go against you but, if the ideas are right and there is self-beleif, even in defeat, then there is room to progress. If we beat Man City one week convincingly, then lose to Stoke the following week, statistically we've gained 3 points but then lost 3 points. If our attitude and play is on a par in both matches then there is hope. If not, then all is not lost either... Pochettino needs time, as does any coach of any club. He needs time to implement his tactics and time to learn from the mistakes, as well as time to assess the good bits. We have a great squad and, somewhere in there, is also a great team. As with most great teams, sometimes you have to take a few steps back before you can advance on up the ladder. Without time to build a solid foundation in MP's own image, he will struggle to maintain any success we may have, short term. We could win the FA cup but, finish in 12th place in the league. It happens. Does this show an improvement, having our first trophy for a good long while? We don't know, until we see it happen... To say that top 6 is our rightful spot is foolish. Surely it's how we go about getting to our final position, throughout an entire season and, not just where we finish. It is possible to finish in 4th again, only to see us drop down the league the following season. It is also possible to build a strong enough foundation this season, that even if we finish in 10th, we have the wherewithal, motivation and strength to gain top 4 in the next. We just don't know. After 3 PL matches, how can any of us be sure, either way.... Up the Spurs!
MAN ON!
Tim is spot on. Ade canot be arsed half the time and is very wasteful, Soldado, well he showed us last season how good he is, so it is up to young harry to make a name for himself, but how likley is that. Perhaps we should give Chadli or Dier a shot up front. 8th at the best this seasona nd THB we should put all our eggs in the Europe vase if we want any chance of CL football next season, just hope the Pooch sees that too.
Horny Helen
@ Shedboy, Im not exactly writing us off, but am sadly realistic that if there are clubs that can retain stability of sorts and still spend 30-60m every window compared with us almost breaking even year on year, there what else should I expect?
oxfordspur
Rex ... Good point. I should have covered that. :-)
Geofspurs
OK Tim, thank's for that, then she said ''I like the rimmel look London'' I thought she said ''I want rimming in London'' See how easy it is to get confused?
spu 4 life
One thing is certain, wherever we are in the table at the end of the season is where we deserve to be and will show us how we compare to 19 other PL teams.
Geofspurs
So what's new? When we finished 4th, no one - even many Spurs fans - thought that we would. Especially the first time. Statistically it is unlikely too. The thing is that no one had Liverpool in top four last season, yet they we odds on to win it 3 games from the end. No one really knows. For me, Chelsea will be 1st. Man C 2nd. But I still see a scrap for 3rd-6th. Liverpool are capable of maintaining top four, but they started poorly and just wait when the CL starts. For them to get top four, everything will have to go swimmingly for them. Arsenal have an amazing array of midfield threat, but without Giroud, I feel they are lacking. As for Spurs, I do not think that we are a striker away. I think that midfield is STILL the problem. Ade scored more than a goal a game last season. We have Soldado to come good, and have the improving Kane. That is fine for what we need. The problem is cutting edge. The only reason that adding a striker may help is that it could add more pace, or could cover injuries/absences. The likelihood is that we will end up 5th/6th, but if we progress in terms of quality of football and bedding in some of the large number of recent signings, then we will be in better position to attack top 4 the following season.
TonyRich
To be honest, I don't really expect ManU to be in the top four this year. When Ferguson was in charge, he always had a TEAM there. He then bought one or two major stars at the start of the season and used them to improve the team. Van Gaal is building the team from the bottom up and I think that it will be halfway through the season before they start winning on a regular basis. Our main rivals for top four are Citeh, Chelsea, Liverpool and of course Arsenal. I think that Everton will be up there, but probably won't stay the course as they don't have the strength in depth. If Poch can get the best out of the players available to him, we'll be top 5 or 6 again, and actually in with a genuine shout of winning a cup of some sort. Get the spine of the TEAM in place and tinker with the "stars" next window.
spurboy61
Ade scored more than a goal PER TWO GAMES last season....(early in morning...sorry)
TonyRich
Who won the england game of musical chairs last night, they kept standing up, warming up, sub's came on, so they dropped out, leaving Townsend and Rose in the final, who won?
spu 4 life
I see after the transfer window, we are still in 6th place. COYS
spu 4 life
Tony ... I agree. It's the unknown in football that makes it more interesting.
Geofspurs
spu ...Rose and AT played a draw ... the music was a variation of Pool's 'you'll never walk alone' called, 'you'll never sit alone'.
Geofspurs
Tim is being an @rse. Sorry but he should know better coming out with a statement like that. It's Poch's first season (3 games so far) and does Tim really think we are a striker away from top 4? Rubbish. Pocho has got to his his tactics and playing style wotking with the team first. Surely is going to take a while, a season at least for the team to adapt. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Realistically, anything is possible. With that thought in mind, I predict a top 2 finish and the FA cup.
MAN ON!
But, only if we get Tim back for the second half of the season...
MAN ON!
Rex agree regarding Soldado. If you're going to spend that amount on a 'fox in the box' striker than at least play to his strengths. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
We need to remove Ade from the leading the line role. Far too often when we have the ball Ade is too deep and nobody is in the box. Soldado is by far the best (in the box) striker we have we regarding to finishing. He needs to get a run of games and I believe he'll come good. I'm not saying drop Ade but he needs to be fighting for a front right/left position with the likes of Chadli/Lamela/Kane.

For me we need to line up with a 4-3-3 format and these are our options.

Lloris/Vorm/Friedel
Walker/Naughton....Dier/Kaboul/Fazio/Verts/Vlad....Rose/Davies
Lennon/Paulinho/Dembele/Capoue/Stambouli,/Mason/Eriksen
Wide right/left Townsend/Chadli/Lamela/Ceballos/Adebayor
Central Soldado/Kane.
yiddyboy
Lol MAN ON! :) COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Tim's right. We might not get top 4. We also won't have all our foreign stars feeling victimised because Tim hasn't got a clue about diversity of cultures. We won't have to put up with the stupid interviews either. We'll have tactics, formations, competition for places and players improving and enjoying being at Spurs. We'll also have a manager who can give a team-talk in English that isn't just 3 words..."spread out lads".
muttley
yiddy ... As Tony pointed out Ade has provided the majority of goals so far. I'm sure he would stay in position more if the team were able to get the ball to him. He wants to be in the game not twiddling his thumbs waiting for nothing. I like the fact that he refuses to be shut out and will chase the ball down or any opposition player that has the ball. I understand it' not his role but when MP sorts out the team and it’s shape I would expect to see Ade staying more in position. The same for Soldado ... nobody was able to get the ball to him in the right way. That’s another aspect teamwork will hopefully improve under MP's direction.
Geofspurs
We can all say give MP time, he will need time etc., What if we do finish this season in 10th or lower? It's conceivable that we have a better record against last seasons top 4 but not such a good one against the rest. Will 10th tell us we have regressed? Do we then fire him, regardless of how we've played our football?
MAN ON!
Yes I make him right, I see a battle between us United and Everton for 5th, 6th and 7th, I think we will finish 6th this season. I think the liverpool game showed us the level we at.
Ossie
A few points to make. Firstly re Atletico, no they won't challenge the top two in Spain every season, they don't have to. The point is they've done it once, that won't be erased from history or the memory of their fans. Their manager will now try and build another team to do it again down the line. It needs to be pointed out that their triumph was due more to attitude and organisation than the quality of their players, man for man the top two had better squads. That's how a club punching above its weight needs to operate. Secondly re Liverpool last season, what that proved was being out of europe is a big advantage, you have more time to prepare your team for each game and a light squad is less of a problem. Sadly not an advantage we will ever get as we are perpetually stranded in the twighlight zone of the europa league. Thirdly I question whether the fans still have the ambition. Poch is apparantly fine if he finishes sixth. AVB and Tim both managed that and were dreadful and had to go. Blind prejudice or fading ambition ?
jod
I think we should fire him even if we win the league and all three cups ... just out of habit.
Geofspurs
jod ... Do fans have to have ambition? The clubs do, but the fans are all different and are satisfied with different outcomes. Each to his own ... just like the diversity of opinion on here.
Geofspurs
jod.. That's kind of the point I'm making because I can't believe that if Pochettino has less success than AVB and Tim, that many supporters will be happy and still saying we have to give the man time. Will all the positive support he is getting now, wither and die if we finish in 7th? After all, both AVB and Tim are seen as failures.
MAN ON!
Rex_Vulgaris - Rogers has recruited nine extra players this year. He has stated that he need a bigger squad because of the demands of european football. If a fantasy of extra games not affecting performances makes you happy then fine, rogers lives in the real world.
jod
Excellent point Rex...
Ossie
Geofspurs - I remember on Sunday Ade chasing a ball that was intended for Chadli, he took over the situation and then looked up to see nobody in the middle, guess what. That's where he should be. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact he is hungry for the ball but he has to know his function in the team and not follow ole Arry's tactics and just run about a bit. I think a front 3 of Ade, Soldado, Lamela would be worth a punt..
yiddyboy
It may be easier to win the Europa than finish in the top 4.That would get us in the Champions League, plus a big ,shiny cup to wave around!
Greavesaboveall
Rex_Vulgaris - Somehow I have more faith in Rogers assesment than yours, I wonder why that is ...
jod
Even if either of AVB or Tim had stayed and we then went on to finish 4th this season, from some quarters there would still be an unbearable sound of discontent and abuse, for either of them during the entire course of the season, despite what they had eventually achieved... I read on here a few days ago someone saying that even if he brought us success, they would not be happy with LVG at Spurs because of his lack of charm! What? Harry was considered 'lucky', by some of the people that didn't like his abrasive, in your face personality and yet Jol was seen as unlucky, if they were seduced by his more softly spoken and charming personality. The results were similar. It was ok for some, if AVB's football was boring and yet not ok for Tim's football to be more lively but, the results were again similar. It seems that a lot of the positivity about Poch is because of his amiable character as much as anything. So, do we give him time because we like him or, because of his talent as a coach? I suppose it's yes to both until such a time that the football isn't working or, he loses it on the sideline, kicks Jesus in the shins and storms off down the Tottenham High Road ranting abuse at the players and fans.
MAN ON!
Name me any player in any game you have ever seen that did not makes a mistake or did something he should not really have done. It's easy to pick those things out in any game. I do understand your concern about positioning, yiddy, and I agree with you, I'm just saying that I think there have been reasons for it. When MP has got everything set up the way he wants it Ade will have to play the correct way or sit on the bench. So, I'm not disputing what you say but I do believe that Ade has a lot to offer.
Geofspurs
Man on - personality may come into it. But for me, and I think others PROGRESS is more important. I want to see that we are going in the right direction. Let's look at Tim. WRONG direction. We were NEVER going to compete with the big boys playing 4-4-2 with Bentaleb / Chadli / Siggy in the middle and no holding midfielders. We were not even close vs the big boys. He talked as if he knew it all and seen it all - despite having no experience. AVB - well, he took on a 4th placed team that was playing good football and unlucky to not be in the CL. He then turned that into not just dull football, but non-productive football. In the first season we got some good results - like that one at Old Trafford, but performance wise, we should have lost 4-1! The team got record points, but if it wasn't for Bale, (Superman) Vertonghen, and Dempsey pulling off the unexpected, we would have finished lower and it would have been more indicative. The second season showed a more realistic state of affairs. We couldn't create goals, and then started to get hammered. Inverted wingers, playing Townsend despite no tangible benefit, stupidly high line without the players to do it, omitting Ade who subsequently went on to score 1 in 2. Backwards progression and had to go. I would have been happy to stick with AVB or Tim had I saw the future looking bright, but there was no inkling - despite having highest points total stats.
TonyRich
Rex - Jod - No one really knows what will happen. I my opinion I believe that Liverpool will have a tougher time trying to replicate last season given the extra games, greater frequency of games, the travel, tiredness, injuries and all other stuff that comes with it. But they have signed 2 strikers to replace the one. Plus bolstered defence. Time will tell if they have done enough to cover. They have a good shout for top four, but I cannot see them being above 3rd/4th. My gut feeling (which may be wrong) is that they will be outside top 4. No one really knows. Let's move on.
TonyRich
Geofspur - I think we are tlaking about the same thing only expressing it differently :-) Ade is an important player for us but at the moment I don't think we've seem the team player the football that Poch desires to play. That will take time! In the meantime we need to continue beating the lesser clubs to maintain our push for top 4. 84 points can be gained by beating teams that finish 7th or below. We should be looking at this as a priority, beating the top 4 regularly is needed if you want to win the league. We are no way in contention of that accolade. Let's ensure we deliver against the mediocre teams and that gives us the best chance of achieving our objectives. A decent cup run will also be nice. We have a squad that should be able to tackle the EL group phase and Prem/Cups. Don't take games lightly, EL we should qualify with 2 games to spare (then rest players), league cup we should go out to win the game in 90 minutes. Avoid extra time against the likes of Forest.
yiddyboy
I feel we missed the top4 boat now, we should have kicked on when we first qualified in 4th place and gone out and spent the money on a world class striker. We got lucky with VdV that season and I feel Levy has tried to look for Bargains like him since. Yes we spent big last summer but on money that was out of the bale sale which to me was too late, were we really going to replace bale,modric and even VdV with that windfall? COYS
WestStandEnclosure
If I was Daniel Levy any Manager/Coach I hired would have to sign as part of his contract that he could not make any statement about the club in any respect for 3 years after termination. I am sick and tired of listening to these mouthy guys. It's the one thing I disliked about HR and Now it's the same with TS.
jvd
I get all that Tony but I think a lot of supporters judgements of coaches, chairman and players alike, DOES have a lot to do with if they find them likeable or not, regardless of how they achieve the end product. All 4 of the coaches I've mentioned had very similar outcomes, results wise. They all have good and bad points that we will either agree or disagree on. Not one of us can be certain that any one of those guys would have achieved success, as in winning something, if they had been given more time. We simply don't know, regardless of how astute we may think our analyses of them is. There are some of us that are saying great things about Pochettino and others that are far more cynical. Either way, we haven't a clue how good or bad he will be for Spurs based on the short time he has had with us. We can only hope for the best, so meanwhile I would love people to get behind him and the team despite his personality and/or perceived talent and despite one bad result. Already, I can see discontent and yet there is no rhyme nor reason for it. Up the Spurs!
MAN ON!
Rex_Vulgaris - he could have kept VDV if he really wanted to, but that was part of AVB's dismantling of the team. King played half the previous season, and wasn't as his best, so not part of our downfall. It is the manager's job to absorb things like that. No doubt that Modric was hard to replace.
TonyRich
I assume this is the same Tim that had the very same strikers last January and said that he didn't need to add any players to the squad to achieve his stated objective of a top 4 finish?
SpuriousLife
MAN ON - well to be honest, I hated AVB's guts whilst he was at Chelsea. I literally turned the sound down when he was interviewed. The only other manager I do that with is Neil Warnock....AND NOW HE IS BACK IN THE EPL!!! So I wasn't best pleased when AVB because Spurs manager. This wasn't just based on his personality, most of it was that I deemed him a) a failure at Chelsea and b) too fast-tracked as he had had just ONE full season in management in his whole career, and was lucky to get the Porto gig. Then did not stay at Porto to prove that it wasn't a fluke. Anyway, I turned up at AVB's second home game in good faith to see probably the worst performance I have ever seen - despite not losing. I like to think that I am objective, but we are all human. However I do believe that if the football and results were good, I would take even Neil Warnock as our manager (unlikely that he would be that good... ;)
TonyRich
SpuriousLife - touche!!!
TonyRich
TonyRich... :-)
MAN ON!
It's only football. Who cares? Where's jimmy Greaves when we need him? I liked him.
MAN ON!
Realistic targer is top 6, but even that will be hard to achieve with the current team.
Jables
yiddy ... A bit weird that ... I had to stop and think if I was arguing with you or agreeing! I think, as you said, we were agreeing in a different way. lol
Geofspurs
Rex_Vulgaris - Ade being more mobile is indeed the Poch approach, only he needs to know when to go and when to stay. Running after a ball that is intended for a colleague is just dumb. He gets the benefit of the doubt for the moment as this way of playing is new, I just hope he is smart enough to understand the role he is required to play. For me Lamela plays this role the best, he can drift around the field at ease. He turns up on the opposite side of the field without it being noticeable. Ade seems more deliberate in his movement rather than just ghosting around. This will take time and I totally agree with you, once they all execute this role(s) it will be a defensive nightmare for the opposition.
yiddyboy
Sorry, off topic but (questionably) football related! I had to visit the doctor today for some antibiotics to help get rid of the flu. She said, ‘Do you have any allergies?’ I said, ‘Hell yea! I’ve got heaps .... pain, poverty, prejudice, intolerance, politics religion, and Arsenal!’ She obviously wasn’t an Arsenal fan because she gave me a prescription.
Geofspurs
I'm not sure if this was posted earlier, but here's an interesting piece from Chadli: “We have Ade at the top and then, behind him, we had me, Christian [Eriksen] and Erik, who are all encouraged to change position during the game,” said Chadli. “That makes it very difficult for the opponents to choose which one of us to pick up. It’s a new way of playing and we are trying to play like that. It’s like we have three No10s, which means we can also get the full-backs forward in wide positions, which makes five players supporting Ade in attack. It is very different and I have never played this way before. But we have to learn it and it can help us improve. “For me, it is better to come off of the left wing and get into a central position to meet a cross. Or sometimes I can move out to the right and cut inside. It is good for me. When the full-back goes high, I have been told to get into the box because I am tall and can make a difference. But we are learning. Against Liverpool we have something to put right. We’ve learned from the experience of what they did to us last season. It was difficult losing like that.”
O'Brien
Tim got everything right ,average players' very little to choose between any of them,not really contenders for anything,the truth hurts its just deluded Spurs fans who expect the impossible.We do not have a team its just a load of blokes playing together,bit like Hackney Marsh teams.If we even get 6th this season I'll be surprised.
spurgatso
If manure finish above us this season then one player is better than a team then.
bazdog
Tonyrich, you bring AVB in virtually every post you make, now you admit that it is down to personal dislike, it all makes sense. Taking away personal issues, if Bale was so instrumental in getting us our best points tally, just think wath he could have done if he was there the previous with another three world class players. Problem was that the previous season we had Redknapp in chargeone of the worst coaches we have had at Spurs, CL and 4th places inspite of him not because of him. COYS.
ItalianYiddo
I believe we will finish where our resources dictate or higher. Anything less, IMO, is completely unacceptable. Where we will finish will be down to coaching. Everton have the extra games this season and do not have the squad to spread it around. They have essentially added Eto'o. We have not lost anyone who was a first team player and have arguably improved in a few positions. We are probably more of a balanced squad. ManU will not have it all their way but they will be able to ride their best 13 players until December. Chelsea and City were already up there and they have added players so they are both fairly settled. Liverpool, like Everton, got a free run of it last season with only a game a week. They have added a lot of potentially good players. The extra game will affect their play as will the loss of the best player in the league. They have the talent, but so do we. Has Arsenal done enough? I'm not so sure. We most certainly underachieved last season so we have better in us.

Ideal result would be for us to get 4th with Arsenal and Liverpool missing out. Neither of them, with the wages they pay, can afford to not have the CL revenues. Our goal must be to finish ahead of one or both of them. Do that and we will be bridging the gap, even if it is only a small amount. Win a cup as well and things will truly be looking up. COYS
peterballb
Bazdog, United are already out of the League Cup. They can play 13 players until December. One player does not make a team but they have one player on 4 times the wages of our best paid player. Their starting XI is better than most and that's all they will be playing. COYS
peterballb
ItalianYiddo - hey. I was was exaggerating for some comic effect, but I admit to not being an admirer of him. But most of it, as I said was that a) he failed at Chelsea, b) inexperienced but got the best jobs without being proven enough. The reason why I bring AVB into it because I hardly saw a league performance where I was satisfied. Sure other managers have overseen bad performances, but they also had good ones to balance it. Whatever anyone says about harry, a good manager is one that takes the resources at their disposal and utilises them to reach potential. He did that with results and with performances. The basis of the opinion is performances. AVB struggled to get Chelsea performing, and he struggled to get us performing. AVB took over a Chelsea team full of players who had multiple EPL winner's medals and could not get them to perform. I just feel that it has come too early for AVB and he had to learn a bit more first.
TonyRich
United have a great front line although their midfield and defense is weaker this season compared to the past. They still haven't replaced Schole (IMO), Ferdinand and Vidic were up there with the best ever partnerships, time will tell if their new signings will settle and achieve the previous success. United have invested huge as they know they can't afford to miss out on CL again. There is enormous pressure on LVG to deliver top 4. Let them worry about that though, we can certainly spoil the party if we settle quickly enough and get a bit of lady luck along the way.
yiddyboy
I hate to say "I told you so" - but I did. At present Spurs are just not good enough for top 4. But, I suppose they have to get the best out of what there is. For me it is a godsend that Chiriches was not sold. So, apart from having Fazio(need to c him first though) and Verts as the mainstay CBs, Poch needs to use some imagination and utilize Chiriches in central midfield. Poch should now drop Capoue(proven hopeless) and Bentaleb; and have Chiriches play as CM, alongside the new promising guy, Stambouli. I've suggested this before and I now see it as an opportunity to try it out. I guess everybody recognizes Chiriches' skills, speed and moving forward prowess. With this set up I do think we'll be a force to be reckoned with. Poch needs to get his thinking cap on for this.
dagobert
Well that’s some good faith show in the rest of our squad from Sherwood. Fair play, a lot of other managers will feel the same. I would amend that to say we are one top striker away from being a title challenging team this season by the way. Why sour grapes for?? I don’t get that.. - even if I thought we could finish top4 without one I wouldn’t say sour grapes. Cheers. COYS.
SpursOne2
dagobert realistically we are not top 4, but you're jumping the gun a wee bit aren't you? Can't you save "I told you so" till the end of the season? As for Vlad, he can certainly do a job in the middle of the park but to dismiss Capoue after 3 games is plain daft, not to mention this is Pocho's first season in charge. He needs time to get the best of what he's got. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
If we accept that we should finish in a position based on where our resources dictate, then we can all just pack up and go home now... See you! If we finish lower than sixth and it is considered all down to our coaching and would be totally unacceptable to you Peter, then I can't take you seriously. An analytical mind such as yours should not come to such an illogical conclusion. If we take on board your stance on where we should finish and, believe it to be so, basing it on all your analyses of all the teams you mention, then you're a bloody genius. Unfortunately your all round logic fails to consider the unknown and the unpredictable. The dodgy ref, the missed penalty, the sacking of Wenger. LVG dropping dead from a heart attack, Soldado scoring 20+ goals.... la la la Lamela! This is football Peter, but not as you know it.
MAN ON!
Its just his opinion james, not fact - He can say what the ***** he likes. We are a top 6 team going by last years finish, regardless of who we signed before the window opened. But now, with the quality we have, there is no reason why we can beat our highest league finish this year. One more striker imo and we are kicking the *****e out of the other title challengers. COYS.
SpursOne2
I agree with you there. James.
Geofspurs
Tonyrich, Chelsea is totally irrelevant, he was there five minutes and the old guard he was brought in to replace didn't like it. The football wasn't always easy on the eye but it was work in progress, there were some good performances even last season, Everton away and Chelsea at home we played some brilliant football aginst two top sides, did Sherwood manage anything decent against any of the top sides? Re Harry, right place right time look at his record, look at how poorly he set QPR up against us, can we play him every week?
ItalianYiddo
dagobert - Firstly, as James says, you cannot dismiss Capoue as proven hopless with just 11 EPL starts in his career. That sort of thinking would have discarded Modric and especially Bale before greatness...not that I am suggesting that Capoue will be great. I do agree that Bentaleb should NOT be played against the big boys. We need experience to counteract their experience. Secondly, playing players out of position should be a last resort only. Chiriches is not only CB for Romania, he is captain. We signed Chiriches as a CB to solve a CB shortage, and if Kaboul gets injured, we will again have a shortage. Let him stay there. We also have a CM surplus, and it would make little logic to shuffle around like that, Let's wait until we see Stambouli play before we really see how best to utilise our midfield.
TonyRich
Why do people often dismiss someones opinion, who doesn't agree with someone else's opinion by saying that is his opinion and he can say what he likes..... ?
MAN ON!
James can also say what he likes then, I think. I may be wrong, IMO!
MAN ON!
Bloody international break ... 10 more days until our next game! But then again, this one has done us a favour as MP has more time with the squad and they can all move on from the Pool game.
Geofspurs
I don't think people should be allowed to have opinions. It creates too much conflict!
Geofspurs
Our next result? 4-0 I think. IMO, Geof. Then again we might lose 4-0. Based on our resources though, we should beat them easily.. By 7 or 8? How much have Sunderland spent this year? I'm getting a headache!
MAN ON!
ItalianYiddo - yes QPR were terrible, and Harry has not done a bang up job there. But he oversaw a good outcome at Spurs (careful wording) that I am grateful for. Many of us miss those times, despite many not liking him. Right time, right place yes, but he certainly did his time beforehand before getting that chance. Chelsea was not irrelevant. It showed that AVB was out of his depth. He could not manage the egos (part of management), and he could not get them to perform. AVB could not manage Ade, and even Tim managed to. Tim struggling with Sandro instead... To this day, AVB still has only 2 full seasons of football management. Yes has managed Spurs, Chelsea, Porto, Zenit
TonyRich
Sooooooo, AVB was unqualified because all he had done was to succeed in Portugal for one season where he won the treble, was a failure at Chelsea where his remit from the owner was to get new blood in to the starting XI and to start undoing the influence of the problematic starters, and, while he had been relived of his duties, that team, with all those rested and motivated veterans won 2 cups (while their PL insipid play continued). He had mentored for years under a manager we all agree is one of the greatest managers of these days, but still, not good enough. He needed to stay at Porto and prove himself. Thank goodness we have Pochettino, never won anything, left one club in relegation and the other got to 8th place. But he is a great developer of players because Adkins, who brought them all in and got them all to where Pochettino could take over, had nothing to do with. Pochettino is the developer. Of course, we can't attribute the same to Hulk, Moutinho et al into very expensive and coveted players. AVB had nothing to do with that. Nothing to do with taking a very good player in Bale and allowing him a forum in which to develop and to become a consistent player of World Class stature worth more money than any previous player sold. AVB is crap. Got it. Highest winning percentage of any Spurs manager, and the highest PL points total. Utter garbage. Lost Modric and VDV in his first season. Lost Bale in his second. 9 new players in the squad last season, 7 from foreign soils, never got the players he wanted, had long-term injuries to Sandro, Rose, Lennon, Kaboul and the constant Adebayor, I'll be there when it suits me drama, but really he should have done so much better. 10-0 in the cups but what a maroon.

Lucky for all he is at Zenit. Won 16 of 19 games there with 1 draw. He hasn't a clue.

Enough of that though. Pochettino is the man now. He seems a good guy and the players seem to like him. If he can get the players to play to potential, then, this team that grossly under-achieved last season (for a whole host of reasons) can finish above where our resources suggest. IMO, we absolutely have to be in Europe again next season. Anything else he and the lads accomplish will be gravy and a feather in the cap for Pochettino. If he fails to do that, he is not up to the task. We need to be winning things. We should have hired a winner. There is nothing in his CV that suggests he is capable of that. Then again, he does not have very much experience, so, to be fair, we can't suggest he won't win things either. (ignoring his League and FA Cup losses last season to Sunderland) COYS
peterballb
SpursOne2 of course it's his opinion and this is a forum to share but to say "I told you so" is stating fact. Season has only just begun. I look forward to your opinion on this. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Dont follow you MANON
SpursOne2
james - I know mate, if not fact but he can say what the ***** he likes, its a stupid thing to say imo and not fact COYS.
SpursOne2
SpursOne2... Don't worry. It wasn't about you. I'm confused today. As Highgate once said to me.. 'Keep taking the tablets".
MAN ON!
I liked Arry until his brain lost control over his mouth. I liked AVB. I liked TS. I like MP (hope that doesn't become past tense for a good while). My problem is I'm a very likable person.
Geofspurs
I mean I should keep taking the tablets...... Just in case you got me wrong...
MAN ON!
So we agree then lol. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
After all the nonsense I've written today, I firmly believe that we do have the players to take us to the top 4. IF!
MAN ON!
MAN ON! are you looking at your crystal ball or crystal meth :) COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
TonyRich, Harry has said many times that it is the players and not the coach. He tells players to go out and run around a bit. He doesn't practice penalties etc. Why bother? Not like they will ever amount to anything. Yes, Harry Redknapp allowed the 3rd best talented squad in the PL (last 2 seasons for sure) to run around a bit and thy got 8th, 4th, 5th and then 4th. He got rid of and ostracized the players that were brought in to play a more continental 4-5-1 line-up, brought in the old guard on large wages and with no resale value, switched to a 4-4-2 and then switched back to a 4-5-1 to accommodate VDV who took over 120 corners without a single one finding the back of the net. His quality of coaching can probably be summed up in the FA Cup loss to Pompey. Complete and utter incompetence. Was it not he who said we were a couple of top players from competing? What the heck were Gallas and VDV if not top players. He then got Ade on loan. He got to keep Modric. His refusal to use the squad cost us finishing in CL places two years running. The smartest thing he has ever done as a coach was to bring in Hoddle to actually do the coaching at QPR. That took him three decades to accomplish. Harry had an awesome young team at West Ham and destroyed them. He did the same to Bournemouth, Pompey and Southampton. He has done it with QPR though he did manage to get them back up playing a PL team in the Championship with wages way beyond their turnover (was over 120% of turnover when they went down). He is a nightmare for an owner and if he had been permitted his targets we would have Forlan, Ferdinand, Neville and a few others still on huge wages. It has taken 6 windows to get the squad numbers down to where they should have been. Even with Levy managing him, he created a situation wherein we were always required to sell before buying. His career winning percentage is 40%. That's over 20% lower than AVB's and is about right. COYS
peterballb
Crystal Palace I think.
MAN ON!
I don't think AVB took us to the quarter finals of the CL though. So, it's all swings and roundabouts and in the eye of the beholder. I know a lot of Spurs fans that still miss Harry. I wonder why?
MAN ON!
SpuirsOne2, I'll go even further and suggest that we could be in it for the title if Pochettino can get all of Adebayor, Soldado, Kane, Townsend, Chadli, Lennon, Eriksen, Lamela, Paulinho all clicking on the offensive end, get the free kicks and corners sorted and eliminate the huge gap he has left in the side between the attackers and the defenders. As was so obvious against Liverpool, the two goals conceded from open play were both as a result of giveaways with no cover behind which allowed 3 Liverpool players to break with pace at the defenders. They were in acres of space and just needed to pick out the correct pass. It happened more than that, but those were the two we were punished for. Thankfully Sterling and Sturridge and Balotelli are not Suarez or the result would have een a swift kick in the berries and we'd still be on the floor. Sort those three and we'll be just fine. I believe the talent in this squad is far better than most give credit for. The first will take time to develop and become consistent. The remaining two are all about coaching. Let's get it done. COYS
peterballb
Can't question the football played under Harry can we. Stunning football. Every team and a certain Ronaldo at Real Madrid admitted they respected Spurs. Harry was not everyone's cup of tea but his team produced great attacking football. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
I'm gonna go and freak out some normal people in the real world. Wish me luck... Think I might just win the Lotto this week.
MAN ON!
MAN ON, I don't understand the point of that. Was it Harry's coaching that got us there or was it the fabulous play of Wold Class players that did that. We did have Gallas, VDV, Bale, Modric, King in the lineup, who I would suggest were some decent playes. The problem is, that success came at a cost offinishing in the CL postions again. That is where the coach needs to be the adult and not act like a kid in a candy store. Harry rode his players and they burnt out. He then threw Lennon under the bus in one of the best coaching moves I have ever seen as he lied and then twisted in the wind as Crouch was getting sent off. I hope that is not the great coaching you are alluding to. We had some great players. they did themselves proud in the CL, we threw away the domestic cups and saw our league position go from in it for the title to out of the CL in a couple of months (tw seasons running). COYS
peterballb
Tim also said this about signings, "Say what you want about Daniel Levy but he backs them in the transfer market and makes sure they get the players, and he’s gone out there and signed six players. Fazio is an experienced Argentinian defender who won the Europa League last year with Sevilla. He [Pochettino] would know him very, very well. I think that’s what they need, they need some cover there at centre-half just in case Younes gets injured” Positive comments imo, I wonder what he would have said if we hadn’t had covered these areas? COYS.
SpursOne2
AVB was rejected by many Spurs supporters not because of how many points the team failed to collect, but because the team was playing a boring style on the pitch and showed no ambition to go forward with the ball. Timmy was reject by many Spurs supporters not because of points failed to be collected, but because he came across as clueless in so many ways--tactically, man management, loose cannon comments, etc. I suspect that MP will be cut more slack and shown more patience because he comes across as someone who has a clue about what he's trying to accomplish, he seems to have the confidence of the players, and he seems to have some common sense when he opens his mouth. In the mean time, he hasn't been here long enough for us to make reasonable judgments about how decent or not a manager/coach is will turn out to be.
Falstaff the Fool
After reading peter's post maybe I didn't like Arry after all! But he was great for a laugh, MAN.
Geofspurs
Don't know what is more difficult !?....predicting Football or the Numbers for the Lottery !?
82spursdebut
peterballb – Yes it will be interesting to see how he deals with that kind of problem in the future, but I think they are decent comments. I don’t personally believe that Poch is a one trick pony. I expected a tighter fought game against pool as well so fair play for highlighting those areas. Areas that can be worked on and fixed imo. I agree the coaching this lot you mentioned will be key, keeping players hungry enough to challenge those who may be in front of them in the pecking order as well. We lost a few attack minded plays but still clearly have bags attacking quality to work with. Not going to get the champagne out yet as there is tons of work to be done but other managers can see the potential there all ready. COYS.
SpursOne2
Falstaff the Fool, I was there for the first two home games under AVB (so yes, Tony Rich I was there for the same insipid Norwich game, which, I will agree, was one of the worst games of football I have ever seen) and to suggest that the support for him amongst the fans in the seats was less than luke warm would be sugar coating it. He was decried here and elsewhere before he was even hired. He never had the support of the fans. He plays possession football. That is, by its very nature deliberate. The fact that he had players at Porto who hiot the net rather than shooting it in to row Z is not really his fault. We did outchance the opposition in most of the games we played. We just didn't convert very much. I believe both Townsend and Paulinho last season were averaging 1 out of 10 shots on target. Rose and Walker were delivering tons of crosses. The fact that they were not within 10 yards of a Spurs player contributed as well. Yes, AVB plays a very deliberate style of play. If players convert their chances, goals are scored, if players don't we don't. At the back though we are solid as the number of clean sheets demonstrates. In most of TS games, the player of the game was Lloris. COYS
peterballb
peterballb. There's absolutely no need to read anything into that 'Harry' post. It is what is is. No more, no less.
MAN ON!
See you later lovely spud people....
MAN ON!
peter .... 'we could be in it for the title if ...' Look at what you followed this with. That's a pretty big 'if'. If one manager can't get the team working, and then another manager can't get the team working, and then another manager can't get the team working .... what does that suggest?
Geofspurs
I agree with MoPo.....slow start vs Liverpool. We were fairly competitive till..the 2nd goal conceded. Still learning...can do better..Let's see what occurs. "Should" be entertaining !
82spursdebut
See you MAN.
Geofspurs
Geofspurs, yes, he is entertaining. Always something to say. The media love him and so did the fans. He has been that same person for decades. He can call fans idiots and other fans defend him. AVB, when speaking for the players (and make no mistake, that's exactly what he was doing) suggested that the fans should cheer the team on rather than constantly groaning and moaning and he was way out of line. How dare he attack us idiots? You couldn't make it up. Anyway, both are gone. Pochettino is the man and he gives interviews only when required. I'm good with that. His focus should be on the team and nothing else. COYS
peterballb
peter ... you've actually answered my question in your last post. It suggests that the players were not performing the way they should be. Managers can do little about that except sell them and replace them with something better ... which, defensively at least, seems to have been done in this TW.
Geofspurs
peter, I share your views regarding AVB. And I like the way MP deals with the media and interviews ... cool, common sense, and to the point. He says nothing that makes me, as a Spurs supporter, cringe in embarrassment ... which was part of Arry's downfall, imo.
Geofspurs
LVG....is totally baffling to me, in his interviews.
82spursdebut
82spurs ... I agree, and you have to love it. I can imagine United imploding if LVG starts to feel too much pressure. For once the media could do us a favour!
Geofspurs
Geoffspurs, exactly what I was going to reply. It's one thing saying "we could be in it for the title if Pochettino can get all of Adebayor, Soldado, Kane, Townsend, Chadli, Lennon, Eriksen, Lamela, Paulinho all clicking on the offensive end, get the free kicks and corners sorted and eliminate the huge gap he has left in the side between the attackers and the defenders." But you have to have the manpower to do that. The setup with Chiriches that I suggested might improve things in that direction. Have to try first I suppose. But Spurs CAN'T leave things as they are. Their shortcomings have been too amply found out by Liverpool.
dagobert
dagobert ... Hopefully MP can work out the best combination over the next few matches and on the training ground. Not an easy job!
Geofspurs
I want us to be tested like the Liverpool again sooner rather than later. Dont want the same mistakes obviously and would love to see us making that progress. Big season still. COYS.
SpursOne2
Geof, sometimes I wonder if they try different things out during training. I mean you have a good player in Chiriches, and it does seem that he will be left out in the cold with Poch playing Fazio and Verts as CBs. Mainly because of his lack of aerial ability. So, given such a situation, if it was me I would try to slot him at midfield.
dagobert
SpursOne ... You will get your wish against a couple of top sides very soon. Big games! And, yes, progress would be nice to see. I can't wait to see the difference Fazio and Stambouli make.
Geofspurs
Geofspurs, so long as we have the 6th most resources in the PL and pay our top players less than the average salary of the top 3 every season will be filled with ifs. That's why we need the best possible coach and the best possible academy. It is the only way to achieve success when the opposition can continually throw money at problems. COYS
peterballb
peter ... I agree and you're right about the academy. Maybe we should be concentrating more on developing young players in the way that United have done twice in the past. It would take longer but, if successful, could provide a sound basis for future long term success ... and even Levy would be happy with the cost factor!
Geofspurs
Geofspurs - Hope so, but more so want to see if the current players have tightened the screws, and will improve. Lead by example and the new guys will be ok, they will get their chance. As far as I’m concerned Liverpool result should be a one off this season, but realistically we know how good some of these teams are. Yep big games are the best. COYS.
SpursOne2
Rex, I don't rate Capoue much. He literally was found out against the Reds. And by the way, Capoue is regarded as being able to play at CB as well as CM. So how come this doesn't apply to others as well?
dagobert
I would suggest that Chiriches would make a very good RB and would rather see Dier at RCB. Chiriches is very weak in the air while Dier is very assured and can be a force in the air. This is also what is expected of Fazio. Stambouli is also good in the air. If Eriksen or Lamela deliver free kicks and corners as they should, we should start getting more goals. The quickest way to stop a team from parking the bus is to get two by them. They may nick one against the run of play but they know that they will not get two and have to open up. It's exactly what happened against West Ham last season. They got a goal against the flow of play right after Defoe missed a sitter. They then converted on a very fortunate bounce after a great Lloris save and we were left chasing it. We opened up and they hit us for a third. Up until the second goal, we were still dominating the game in chances and possession.

What I want to see is better free kicks, corners, throw ins with evidence that time is being spent on these in practice (seemed so in the preseason but was non-existent against liverpool). I also want to see our players start running at opposition players who are on cards. Liverpool had two players on yellows fairly early and we didn't do anything to press them. This goes all the way back to Jol. We seem to let off as soon as the player is on yellow rather than continue to run at him. Why? He now has to be cautious which means you have the advantage. If he lunges in again, he's off the pitch. It should be automatic. These things are all down to coaching. Let's get that done and see where we go. COYS
peterballb
dagobert, I thought Capoue played really well the other day. bentaleb was a waste of space and added nothing going forward and nothing going back. I believe it was Capoue who made that briliant pass in to Chadli. He also made another excellent long diagonal ball that led to an opportunity. He was closer to closing down the two goals than our CB's were which is fairly condemning of the CB's. Kaboul was off the pace and looked lost. Vertonghen looked very slow. COYS
peterballb
dagobert ... I’m not sure it’s fair to blame any individual for the Pool game. The team was so bad in terms of shape and performance that nobody really had the chance to shine. I’d put it down to a bad day at the office for virtually all of them, given that it was a home game.
Geofspurs
Fazio and verts as CBs? I'd prefer to see Kaboul on the bench at the moment. Capoue and Stambouli as centre MF (although have to admit I've not seen Stambouli play). Lots of interesting options for MP to sort out. Stop Eriksen taking corners ... unless they're short ones!
Geofspurs
Night guys.
Geofspurs
The ice-cream is not far wrong.
dogeatdog
The bale, modric, VDV, king, parker etc team was our "lightening in a bottle" moment. It is almost a criminal offence that team never won anything when with proper coaching we should have been in it for the PLitself that season. The players now are simply not as good. What do people expect we sold our best players. The likes of Lamela, Erikssen may come good but its going to take time to get anywhere near as good as Bale, Modric etc
StillRickyVilla
6th is the highest I can see us finishing this season, with new stadium to be paid for over next 5-10 years, 6th might even be optimistic in forthcoming seasons. Makes you wonder what the point of a 57000 ground is, unless you believe the Pele theory, maybe new owners is our only hope of being consistent top 4, whatever happens we will all still love the club, for better or worse eh! you can't divorce your team!! COYSS.
Thats Entertainment
StillRickyVilla, you are correct in that the starting XI is not as good as the team you mention. What I do believe though is that the squad, top to bottom, is of better quality and, if they can be properly motivated, rested and rotated, we can be in it for the cups while competing for the top 4. I do agree, at this stage, we are not currently title material because our starting XI needs to mature and learn to dominate. I have every belief that players like Lamela and Eriksen can prove to be top players in the PL. They are not there yet. On his day, Eriksen can be brilliant. His work ethic and precision, at times, seems to be completely wanting. Lamela was injured last season. I really like what I have seen of him this season. I also really like the obvious chemistry he has with Soldado and Lennon. Kane has also looked very at ease when put on with those others. I really want that top 4 to be given a run out or two after the international break. COYS
peterballb
We are stuck in 5th-7th no mans land. Chelsea, City, Arse, Pool and after the TW probably Utd are light years ahead of us. Given that CL qualification seems to be the be all and end all these days, we should focus all our resources on the Europa.
StillRickyVilla
Now 4th is no go, lets have a real go at all the cups.
Thats Entertainment
PeterB, I agree that all of last years signings have the potential. Thats why I defended AVB - he had inferior players yet still got better results than Harry. Whoever is manager its going to take 2-3 years to get the players up to the standard required. Given what's happened we have to ne patient. Unfortunately the knee jerkers are soon out in force. We could easily have conceded 5 on sunday. Would that mean sacking poch?
StillRickyVilla
Let's win the treble, LOL!
Thats Entertainment
TonyR completely agree with you post on Redknapp, not everyone liked him, yes he fecked up in the end but he played the best football and 'statistically' had the best spurs results for the past 10 years, actually have to go back to 1990 to beat him (I'm using the best place finish statistic not the how many did you win in a easy league statistic)... AVB was boring, Bill Nic would agree with us!

On Tim he is probably right but so is MAN ON, anything can happen. I'd say if Poch gets us up there he really is a top manager, we don't have the squad and we didnt make even one significant purchase this summer, just good potential as usual,,, to me the window will have been good but only if we are delaying our big purchase until January when Poch has had more time to decide who he really wants.
T.H.F.Chris
It's far more probable that Spurs will get into the CL by placing in the top 4 in the PL than by winning the Europa, contrary to what many comments say on this site. Assuming that Chelsea and Man City will place in the top 2, and that either Arsenal or Liverpool will take 3rd, then the team that doesn't take 3rd will be competing with Spurs and perhaps Everett for the final top 4 position. So, even if someone unexpected (perhaps Manure? Swansea? Who know?) also is competing for 4th, we reasonably are one of three or four teams competing for the 4th spot. So, we have at least a 25% chance of making it into the CL by landing a top 4 place.


Now let's think about the chances of winning the Europa. So, of the 130 something teams in the competition, at least half of them have no reasonable chance, but at least 15 to 20 teams have a reasonable chance to win the thing, including those who enter after being eliminated from the current CL competition. Further, at the knockout stages, each paired series eliminates one team unless it wins the home and away series, so a team must be perfect, that is, it must win each series it plays to continue. A single failure eliminates the team. That is not true in trying to gain a top four position in the PL, where a team can slip up without losing ground if one's competitors for the top 4 spot also slip up, which is likely to happen on several weekends during the season. There simply are more degrees of freedom, as a statistician would put it, in the quest for a top 4 spot than in winning the one top spot in the Europa competition. Suggestions that the best chance of getting a CL spot is by winning Europa are mistaken as a matter of mathematics. Our chances of gaining a top 4 spot are greater than our chance of winning the Europa. That's not to say that the team shouldn't try to win the Europa; but it also should try maximally to win a top 4 spot, and that's where the greater opportunity to enter the CL is, at least as a function of probability theory.

Falstaff the Fool
Good post Chris. I have a feeling he is looking to see how J-Rod is shaping up. Would be a fantastic coup if Schneiderlin and J-Rod were bought. I know striker is important but having Schneiderlin and Benji (if he's as good as many are making him out to be) would make the midfield quite tasty, allowing Eriksen, Lamela, Dembele and co licence to do what they do best. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Best we will do this season is 7th. Tim is sadly correct we need a top class strike unfortunately it is clear DL and JL have put cash before success as opposed to our direct competitors who have realised success on the field will bring cash rewards off it. Pretty sad and short sighted really but not suprising with ENICs record of club ownership.
pratts bottom
Tim Sherwood is really Harry Redknapp mark 2.

Glad he got the sack but you don`t have to be a rocket scientist to know that after the way we got rolled over by Liverpool that we are far from top 4,not just one player.
,br>There are fans who are expecting us to finish 6th.If you finish 6th then you have to lose many games,many games that may run into double figures.

I find it scary that so many fans have set themselves up for their club to lose 10+ games in a season,because to finish 6th or 7th that will be the case.

We need to stop overrating our own players because on one hand we have a great squad,on the other 6th is par for us,that doesn`t make sense.Then the same posters will have a pop at others for saying some of our players are not good enough.

If you finish 6th,7th,8th then it means some of your squad are not good enough,so it`s a fans prerogative to say so.Whose done who has not,you can`t support them all the same when some are clearly playing better than others.

if we do finish 6th as many expect,then you have to get rid of the carriers & bring in better,you can`t just keep supporting $hit.
identify the players who need to go & identify possible replacements,we don`t buy them but nothing wrong with harmless fun & sofa football management,that`s a fans luxury but we`re not paid millions to get it right.In fact we pay ourselves & have the right to get it wrong,who cares not our job ,we`re just backseat passengers.

Spurs have improved under Enic but i wonder where their own loyalties lie? making money off the fans or putting Spurs amongst the best?
Enic like playing it safe,no net spend,Danny Rose 5 year deal,buying small selling big etc etc .

But what do the fans get out of it at the end of the season?
Fanny adams
Falstaff the Fool, the raw numbers in the EL don't mean very much but you are correct in that the odds are long. We should get out of the group stages which already knocks teams out. 48 teams becomes 28 and then the 8 CL third place teams get to join in. Since winning now means a CL spot, the Cl teams that are not certain of CL next season will take it seriously. This makes it more of a gamble than previous seasons. The thing is, the odds will not be that much longer as teams from most countries have always taken the EL seriously. It's really only England that has looked down it's nose on it. Finish first in the group to keep our seeding and then go from there. First round after the group stages should be fairly routine and then the competition will heat up.

As you say though, finishing fourth is probably shorter odds. One bad result in any cup can put an end to the run. As you point out, one bad result in the league does not have the same effect. 37 other chances mitigate against that. We could still finish on 111 points this season. That would give us the title and CL. Over to you now Pochettino. COYS
peterballb
Fanny adams, just being realistic suggests that ENIC is a business entity with a design on makng money, so, I believe that their loyalties re tied in with money. NDP will be huge for ENIC as it is much more than just a stadium deal. It will transform their THFC holdings from 450M to over 1B, if I am correct. Considering that they bought it for less than 100M, they have done fairly well on that side of things. Our year in the CL raised our turnover 20-30M from the year to year numbers. That demonstrates that there is a financial benefit to being in the competition. I am sure there are also sponsor bonuses as there would be for winning any cup. It's all about exposure and that's what they are marketing.

Here's the thing though. At the risk of sounding very Pele-esque, none of that means that any extra monies will be invested in the squad. We will continue to pay 65-70% of turnover on salary. If turnover increases by 30M (as CL would likely do) we then can pay players a little more, or, more likely, can afford one or two more upgrades in the starting XI. The whole process, so long as ENIC are in charge, will be about balancing the books on the football side of things. We will not have a net spend of 100M and have salaries at 150% of turnover. Not only is it counter to the FFPR, it is also counter to any viable business model. We will continue to build, brick by brick and within our means. Quickest way to more exposure which equals more international money is to win things. That's what we need to be doing. Go all out for the League Cup. We are at home for the next round against Championship opposition. Win it and that guarantees EL and then we can go all out for the EL. You don't control the draws but it would not be the first time that a team can win the League Cup without having to play any top sides. ManU are already out. COYS
peterballb
< b r > < b r >

Just remove all of the spaces and you'll be there. COYS
peterballb
What are TS's motive in making these comments ?
Arky
Who gives a toss what that pillock Sherwood, him that can't get a job without dragging Chris Reilly's coaching badges with him, says. I happen to agree with him, that we won't come close to the top 4, but I still object, when he continues to comment to the media on things Spurs. Perhaps the prat should concentrate on getting of the dole.
Frank
funny how we used to balance the books, have a wage bill of less than 70% and still have a transfer fund...funny how that stopped when we de-listed, funny how the whole NLDP only got the go ahead because of Spurs yet spurs won't keep all the revenue streams....imo we're being shafted nice and slow by our owners....yet another Pele-esque comment...give it a few years and we may find it hard to believe people used to support ENIC...
shedboy2
Shed your sounding more like Pele10 everyday! :) COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
King_Ordinary:


For a paragraph break type the "less than" symbol, then p, then the "more than" symbol. On most keyboards the two symbols are "Shift ," and "Shift ." respectively. For a line break type the less than symbol, followed by br, followed by the more than symbol. The two procedures can be used together, one after the other.


Save the "feck you" comments for supporters of Arsenal and Chelsea, and avoid using when communicating with a Spurs supporter.


There, you have the commands and a couple of examples of their usage in the same comment.

Falstaff the Fool
Some people call the "more than" symbol the "greater than" symbol, by the way.
Falstaff the Fool
peterballb IMO it makes no sense for Enic to charge Champions league prices for Championship football.
It also makes no sense because in area like Tottenham you`re not going to make your money back.
IMO Enic are just playing it safe & are not there to win things,but more trying to make a business model.Because it all comes at the cost of the fans,who are blindly loyal.
If you don`t like one supermarket you shop somewhere else,don`t like a restaraunt you eat somewhere else.In football once a supporter always a supporter,the way it is,it`s different altogether.

I just don`t get how Enic can get away with taking the heart & soul away form our club by focusing more on profit & less about productivity.I`d like to see a balance because yes it`s a business but also there`s some football to be played.

IMO Enic hold the fans to ransom because it`s their way or no way,no different to a dictatorship IMO.I fEnic tried to win the league but failed i`d accept that,but this window & the last 5 have told me they`re happy to lose 5-0 if it means they earn money.
If one million people pay to see a bad film at the cinema the film producers don`t care,you already put in,money was made.Like Man of steal,terrible film but too late i already paid,they don`t care if i liked it or not but unlike most things,in the entertainment industry you don`t get to take back what you bought if you didn`t like it.
Buy the missus a dress she hates? no problem take it back,in football you can`t do that,buy a ticket,bad game,refund.

I`m very worried how Spurs are so happy to lose 10+ games this season & so many fans are happy with that also,like it`s par.
To pay the prices Enic charge par should be zero but just a few defeats along the way,it happens,it`s football.

Footballers walk off the field mostly not giving a $hit when we lose & play badly,do fans walk out the stadium that way?

Enic & the pied piper spring to mind,something needs & should be done.
Fanny adams
< p > < br > in case I was too obscure, no spaces within the less than and more than symbols
Falstaff the Fool
shedboy2, really? Could it be that our salaries went from 35-60-95M while our turnover only icreased 25M? You can't then balance out a 50M net spend unless you cut 50M from the salary side of the equation. Yes, when we spent far less on salary (nowhere near 65-70%of turnover) we had far more to spend on transfers. Now we spend more on salary which has us paying and retaining players of better quality. I remember all of the hand-wringing about salary when Jol wanted Davids. Modric was never well paid under Spurs. Nor was Berbatov. Certainly better than where they were but nowhere near at a comparable level to what other teams were paying similar players. How long was King held out as the top of the wage structure? Micah Richards made more with City than we ever gave Ledley. Point is, we used to spend money on transfers. Now we try to break even on transfers and pay 65-70% of turnover on salary. However you do it, the numbers need to all balance out. COYS
peterballb
make sure you type the br rather than just b or you may screw up the entire thread
Falstaff the Fool
MAN ON,and others, surely the only measure of a football club, are results, you can't get points for artistic impression, or degree of difficulty, as you can in sports where there is no definitive measure of the merit of one team, or competitor, over the other. In football fortunately there is, you get more goals than the opposition, win the game, progress in the cup competition, or get 3 points and determine your league position. The only way we can measure any improvement season on season, is in what we achieve, compared to the previous season, whether we win, or progress further in the trophies, and where we finish in the league. Where we are in the pecking order. Any progress must be objective, subject to measurement, beyond argument or opinion. Anything else is subjective and a matter of often biased opinion. If we finish below 6th, and fail to win a trophy there is no improvement, we will have regressed. The current trend will have continued. We have gone from 4th to 5th to 6th, fact not opinion, we have regressed. The reasons or excuses are immaterial, the only issue is, if we finish below 6th we cannot have improved.
Frank
I used to be a massive Enic fan by the way but i have now seen through their wicked & greedy ways.
Pele10 was more right than wrong it seems.The club is void of any heart,soul or romance.

Enic have turned our club more into microsoft than they have a football team playing the used to be beautiful game.
Fanny adams
Fanny adams, they charge what the market will bear. To call the football that we play Championship is grossly unfair to all involved. Yes, fans are blindly loyal. As I stated when people were complaing about the large AIA in bright red on the white kit that they didn't care what those who will buy it anyway cared. They aren't the market they are selling to. The markets in Asia and in North America is the target audience. As I also said following our opening home game, there seemed to be a decent amount of red AIA's in evidence, so those that buy anyway, bought anyway.

I don't know what profit you are talking about. On the playing side, we break even, more or less every season. Their profit will be thir pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and, as an ongoing business entity, isn't that what they are supposed to be doing? Football has been played. Heart and soul is not gone. We are also no longer in the bottom hlf of the table and are perennially in the conversation about top 4.

The fans are not held at ransom. They choose to pay the money of their own free will. Price is set by those who are willing to do so. Come live in Toronto and be a Maple Leafs fan and you'll understand exactly what I mean. I stopped doing it and chose to become a Quebec Nordique fan because I liked what they offered. Have been a fan ever since even though they moved to Colorado and are owned by the same family as owns Arsenal. It is entertainment but it is also sport. To their credit, the owners are spending the money that comes in to the club on the football side of things. No, they are not personally bankrolling things as Fernandez has, but then they never said they would. If you don't like the product you are watching, don't buy the tickets. You don't get your money back for a poor showing any more than you owe the club triple because we beat Wigan 9-1. I would hope by now that all supporters of Spurs are aware of how ENIC run things and that they are not going to dip in to the pockets of Levy or Tavistock to play Monopoly football.

I don't think at Spurs fan would be happy with 10 losses. Then again, if we win the other 28 games we will be in the CL and perhaps win the title. As for the players, I am sure they all care, to a degree. The problem is it has all become a business for them too. I don't like it, but it's how it is. All I expect of them is to be professional and go out there and do the best job they can. It would be nice to see them all ticked off after a performance like the other day, but you see it less and less. 20 years ago BAE would have walked away from his contract rather than collect his money for doing nothing. Now he'd rather collect the money than be playing. Sad. But how it is. COYS
peterballb
Off Topic....With thanks to Hoopspur, where?.. from another spurs site... info. can be found at this link..THFC Annual Accounts 2013http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/up coments/Annual_Reports/annual-report-2013.pdf.

If there are any errors i apologise....See page 10 for the cash flow. We repaid RBS £27m bank loan and £7m HMRC.

Page 20 section 9 for stadium spending (£40m so far) Also £27m paid to THFC for properties bought around the stadium, a profit of £5m for the club....Page 35 section 25 for money input by Joe Lewis.. Aug 2013... £50m from one of his companies, of which £40m as equity stake in THFC (add to his 85% already) This backs up what I have mentioned before.. Joe put in £50m to help support Levy (club cash flow) buying the 7 players last year...Which means he has input a gift to the club and not a loan. There are more details, but this is the gist of it. So ENIC are not taking money out of THFC, they are putting in. Are committed to building the stadium, by spending £40m as of the 2013 accounts... Levy and Joe Lewis do not spend this massive level of money then just throw it away..and not have further available money to build the stadium. As the resident monotone negative poster on here says, "Loser Levy, is a bean counter"... which means he knows about property & finances...and is a multi millionaire... with Joe Lewis who is also into property developments / currency trading worth £3.5b+.... Then we have the THFC Board of Directors at £4.5b according to the estimate of the monotone poster own words. !!

IMO ...With this financial amounts, one possibility is to build the stadium with our own money, directors taking an investment with profit later, and THFC not held to ransom by the Banks, which allows us to use club cash flow / trading funding to buy players of better quality. The stadium is the main target and will be built for 2017 season start, as Levy has said this is his target. Difficult to balance with spending millions on players and wages to match until we have a 56k or 60k seat stadium... COYS
Block D Spurs
So, Peter, you left your beloved Maple Leafs for a Quebec team that then moved to Colorado and is owned by family of the Arsenal owner because you didn't like the direction that the Leafs were taking? Would you do the same to the Spurs if you conclude that ENIC aren't running the team the way you want? Perhaps you could have changed you affections to the Wimbledon Dons and followed them to Milton Keynes? LOL.


As to BAE continuing to cash his pay checks rather than walking way--I wouldn't walk away from the sort of money he's getting just because ENIC decided not to play me any more. The problem isn't Bennie, but an insane capitalist system that creates such distorted economic situations. I don't know what Bennie's salary is, but would you give up plus or minus 40,000 pounds sterling a week just because ENIC decided to make you sit? This could be enough money for the man to invest and take care of himself and his family for the rest of his life. Bennie didn't create this situation, he's just dealing with it in the same way most people would. Cash the checks that are due you on your contract. Play well when asked to do so. I'm fine with bashing ENIC, but I'm not into bashing Bennie for taking what he's owed on his contract. He's not the problem. The problem is that the things we cherish--our clubs, our schools, our homes and neighborhoods, our lives--are controlled by a small group of super rich who control and manipulate the politics and money of our lives.

Falstaff the Fool
Funny Frank, just the other day I stated that this was not rhythmic gymnastics. In principal I agree with what you are saying. Personally, I think that this squad is far too good to finish anywhere below where our resources suggest we should and I believe we have the talent to exceed where our resources suggest we ought to be. I do think though that the club must always be realistic with the expectations. found it hilarious that people thought we should be getting top 4 last year and that anything less should see AVB out on his ears. 9 new players in the squad, injuries to major players and we were supposed to run riot. Yet others suggested we would be lucky to get in to the top 6. I don't know what coloured glasses some wear but it isso odd that there is such a divergence of opinion. United, regardless of all of the money spent, is probably not a title contender. They will be in the mix though and will probably get top 4. They have played 4 games and have looked poor in them all. New coach, new players. Never easy. As I have said though, they can run with 13 players for the season as they only have one game a week until December. They have a pretty talented tarting XI, so they could do very well. It's going to take time though. COYS
peterballb
Frank. I was only posing questions more than anything but what you say is not as factual as you insist it is. For argument sake, if we win 2 trophies and finish 7th in the league that could still be deemed as progress, as we've not won one for a wee while. We could also improve on our in the results in the PL and still finish lower. It could be that one or two teams have improved more so than we have, rather than us regressing. It's not as straightforward and as black and white as you say. There will also be many supporters who will see improvement, if our football is simply more enjoyable than it was last year, and/or we let in a lot less goals. Is finishing 7th or 8th so much of a difference to finishing 6th when it could be down to one missed penalty or bad ref decision, in the last minute, of the last match of the season? These things can and do happen. Dodgy Lasagna anyone?
MAN ON!
Block-that is very interesting and give us a different perspective on things actually gives us a more positive outlook. So if Levy is generating cash and Enic are putting in to pay for the stadium ourselves that makes the future much brighter and much safer imo. We will not have debt round our neck for years after the stadium is built. I'm all for that, so slowly but surely, paying cash as we go along rather than going into debt is sound financial business and in the meantime they are doing their best to try and keep us in contention. I said before with Poch appointment given a five year contract I think levy feels he will deliver good football and keep us in and around the top six and that will suit suit Levy and co for now and then we push on once stadium is built. I think he now knows top four is difficult and has accepted at this moment we cannot compete and that is why he has given Poch long term contract because he feels Poch will at least give us good football and develop the players which will help with funds as well. I see levy upping his game once the stadium is built. I don't see him bailing out at any point regardless what some people on here wish for. I am behind Levy always have been even though I do not always agree with his decisions but I do believe he is a genuine Spurs fan and does what he feels is best for the club and that he wants to see us succeed. Some people want the quick fix, get into debt or get a sugar daddy in. I'm not one of them I am patient and am all for living within our means. I do it in my own life I want the club I support to do the same. This world is a mess because of greed and debt.
BigSpursFan
Easy pickings there Tim - he may be right, but last season we were a top striker, left back, right back, two centre backs, motivated players, tactical structure and a decent manager away from top four. So progress.....
Windlespur
Falstaff the Fool, the reason I do not support the Maple Leafs is because they have never shown a desire to win despite having the greatest resources of all of the teams in the NHL. Now that there is a salary cap, they are shielded from excess criticism but they still spend at the top of the League to win nothing (since 1967). Spurs, contrary to popular belief, have won things under ENIC and have finished above where their resources suggested they should most seasons. Both teams charge what the market will bear. That doesn't bother me at all. I choose not to pay $250-300 CDN to watch my Avalanche when they are in Toronto. Flying out of Buffalo, I could probably get four flights, 4 sets of tickets, 4 hot dogs, four drinks, 4 Avalanche caps and 4 popcorns for what one ticket costs in Toronto. Add a second ticketand you've covered hotel and skiing for a day. My choice.

As for BAE it's a tough one. If I am honest, I would be unlikely to leave for less money, just as he, Dawson, Crouch, Keane etc etc etc etc have refused to do. I get that. What I was suggesting is that 20 years ago the player would have walked away from his contract to play elsewhere. The monies were not so ridiculous that what you were losing was paltry. Reality is BAE is probably going to see his wages halved if he goes elsewhere. It probably represents 1M or more lost. Not mere farthings. I don't begrudge him his decision. I'm just saying that society and attitudes have all changed. He would rather sit and earn more than play and earn less. COYS
peterballb
I have to say it but Tim has actually been very positive about Spurs since he was fired. Someone asks him some question and he answers them. No big deal. No hidden agenda.
MAN ON!
Block D, thanks for the accounts info. Very interesting. Perhaps you should cut 'n paste that after of Pele10's posts to add some perspective. COYS!
Critical_Spur
I don't have an issue with Tim expressing an opinion, just like all of us here. He is no longer in management, probably still not got his badges.....probably the same for many on here! What if a pundit said the same about Spurs on TV? Matters not. Overall, the whole idea of making predictions after just 3 games is crazy. At the start of LAST season, I bet many Saints fans were predicting relegation under Poch. COYS!
Critical_Spur
True critical... Why should we care?
MAN ON!
Critical.. I really can't be bothered to counter balance what Pele 10 says..not interested anymore. I have better things to do..
Block D Spurs
No worries Black D! Thanks for bringing it to our attention tho. COYS!
Critical_Spur
First off going from the Leafs to the Nordiques is no big deal. Had it been to another original 6 team, that would have been sacriledge and not a move I would have ever considered. I continue to hate the Montreal Canadians and that will never change. They were the arch-enemy of the leafs and were hated by the Nordiques. If you ever get a chance watch the Nordiques-Habs game that is known as the match de vendredi Saint. Insane but the hatred between the teams was real. Quite a natural fit actually. Football teams are different than hockey teams. You can't ever get relegated in the NHL so there is no punishment for the owners for doing a crap job. As for allegiances to teams, the only team I have ever switched was the Maple Leafs. As I was born in Mississauga, Toronto was the defacto team to support. It was not a choice I made. It was the only team you could follow back inthe 70's because TV didn't cover the other teams and radio didn't get many games from other centres )Chicago if I stood on one side of the radio, Hartford if I stood on the other side, Detroit sometimes, St. Louis rarely, montreal in French only and Buffalo. I liked Quebec because I immediately took to Peter Stastny and have followed the franchise ever since. Have been a Spurs fan since early 70's (by choice), Redskins fan since the mid-70' (by choice), Lakers fan since the late 70's (by choice); Blue Jays fan because they are local but also because they did want to win (still do just incompetent). Liked Borg and Conners, hated McEnroe. Loved Gary Player and Watson, hated Nichlaus. I still follow all of my favourites. I love hockey though and I love football. Give me a good game to watch and I am happy. Give me a Spurs game or an Avalanche game and I just want them to win, win, win, as Mad would say. I don't bet on the teams I support because I have never been able to bet against my own teams. Back to the Leafs, I actually take great pleasure in watching all of the bandwagon jumpers get back on every year just to get thrown off the cart some time in January or February. Lots of people limping in the streets of Toronto. Not as much as seeing Colorado win, but it gives me immense pleasure. Kind of like whenever Arsenal loses. I never chose the Leafs, it was chosen for me. When I became smart enough, i chose otherwise. Avalanche have won 2 Stanley Cups and have a really good young team. looking forward to hockey season as well. The rep team I coach is already on the ice and on Saturday I have hockey from 10-11:30, rep baseball tryouts from 12-2 and then am back on the ice for House League player evaluations at 3. Gonna be a busy day for me and my eldest son.

I have no regrets in the decisions I have made. COYS
peterballb
Sorry for off topic, but a footy rant...

Not only the England match was so poor last night, I could not see a single solitary reason for bringing on Lambert with 1 min remaining in normal time. Talk about stats and records, the whole idea of England caps has taken a different meaning and disrespects the records held by past players for decades. To think, when Lambert retires and does punditry, the caption might read....200 caps for England. When in fact he may have played a total of 200 mins!! Meaningless international friendlies where you make 10 changes....it's caps galore, confetti time!

Right, got that off my chest!....now who feck is this Tim? :)
Critical_Spur
I neglected to mention as well that I had followed the Quebec Nordiques from their time in the WHA so when the WHA and the NHL merged it was not really like jumping ship, rather choosing one over another. The choice was easy for me. COYS
peterballb
Critical_Spur, I agree wholeheartedly. It means very little nowadays. What do you think of bringing on Friedel with a couple of minutes left in a game to get the record? My position is it is wrong for the very same reasons. COYS
peterballb
James be very interesting to see if J-Rod gets back to form quickly, been out for a long time, if he does and we snap him up with Schniderlain in January you'd say we had a very good season of transfers, properly improved our team. That said we'd have to keep Verts and Lloris to actually progress..
T.H.F.Chris
Doesn't Schneiderlin have three years remaining on his deal? Isn't Stambouli pretty much a similar player? I doubt we'll be back in for him. Rodriguez is another story though. COYS
peterballb
I don't know. I grew up in London and in North America, and I know if I'd changed allegiance from the Boston Bruins to the New York Rangers (both original 6 teams) it would have been akin to leaving Spurs for West Ham or Arsenal. Just because Quebec wasn't one of the original 6 doesn't change things all that much for me, so I'm not sure I grasp that point. But, I'm not Saint Peter, so I can't judge another man's sense of loyalties.
Falstaff the Fool
As to Bennie AE and whether he should continue to cash his checks: St Peter is right that the world has changed and players have a different relationship to their clubs and to the sport from what existed 20 or 30 years ago. The reason? Corporate capitalism, especially since the days of Reagan and Thatcher, treats all things as commodities that can be bought and sold. This includes football players, and, indeed, includes football club supporters. If you find this distressing, then you should put some energy into resisting corporate capitalism, which devalues you and me, and devalues things we love, like THFC, which is reduced by its owners to just another commodity.
Falstaff the Fool
BAE will always have a special place in my heart because of his comportment at the time of the N17 riot. God bless him.
Falstaff the Fool
Falstaff / PB - interesting stuff. I was born and raised in Kent and will alway support Kent County Cricket Club regardless of which county I live in. Having had generations of my family before from North london, I could never switch allegiances from my birth right, Spurs, but did used to watch Maidstone Utd for a couple of seasons. Saying that, I spent most of the first half waiting for half time as they read out the top division scores. Obviously, no mobile phones and WIFI in those days so it was wait or carry a pocket radio. Maidstone Utd became my second team but I would never see them as anymore than that. I was also in San Diego last week and went to one of the Padres games (baseball). When I got talking to a few of the folks I work with they were big Padres fans but some had ended up in San Diego through their lifetimes. They weren't born there and only became fans when they moved there. They still had soft spots for their home city but they were certainly pretty crazy about their "new home" team. That became the team they wore the colours for. I was at the game with a Red Sox fan who lives in Boston. He spent more time looking at the Red Sox score on his phone than the live game we were watching. Not that it's the most riveting game :-)
muttley
@muttley, Ha ha. Red Sox fans extreme in their loyalty. Same owner of Sox as Liverpool FC. Red Sox were the worst team in baseball two years ago, won the championship last year, and are the worst team inthe league again this year. Drastic change of players from year to year.


Anyway, to switch allegiance from one hockey team to another (especially in Canada) isn't usual by any means, original 6 team or not. Divorce a wife, no problem. Change hockey teams in Canada or football clubs in England, it just isn't done. LOL.

Falstaff the Fool
When George Graham was in charge I considered supporting Charlton, then he beat Arsenal and I got over it....
T.H.F.Chris
Given what I've been saying, in the spirit of truth in advertising, I should admit to a waver once in my allegiance to Spurs. I supported Spurs first when I was eight years old, although I think my support wasn't very deep as it came only through a couple of mates who supported THFC. Then as Blanchflower and his mates took to world of football and shook it, I knew I was Spurs for life. But I met a young footballer in Valentines Park near Gants Hill a couple of times, and he became Bobby Moore of West Ham fame--perhaps the best defender in modern history--although I didn't really know what he'd become at that time, and I flirted with feelings of rooting for Spam because of him when I saw him grow into Bobby Moore. But that flirtation lasted only a few weeks and I discovered the impossibility of rooting against Spurs when they played vs. Spam. Spurs for life for me, no questions about it, in spite of a real affection for Bobby Moore, who was a gracious person in my experience, as well as a wonderful footballer. If Bobby Moore couldn't turn my eye, ENIC certainly wouldn't be sufficient to turn me away from Spurs.
Falstaff the Fool
When one's team breaks bad, because of poor players, poor manager, evil owner, or whatever, one doesn't change one's support, but mourns for the state of the club, like one mourns the state of a brother or son when they take a bad turn. love transcends performance, especially bad performance. you've got to love Spurs even when George Graham arrives, and even if they don't beat while he's around.
Falstaff the Fool
Actually Falstaff the Fool, there are two types of hockey fans in Toronto and that probably applies from coast to coast, those that are Leafs fans and those that are hockey fans. Hockey fans tend to like another team and, by and large, support them above all others. You are drawn in to Leaf Mania because it is omnipresent in Toronto. Watch a Leafs/Oilers/Flames/Senators game on TV and you'll quickly note how many Leafs fans are in Edmonton/Calgray etc. part of that goes to the old WHA days when the only NHL (which was covered coast to coast) team that was seen West of Quebec was the Leafs and it is partly due to relocated Torontonians. Anyway, as I said, the switch from Toronto (never my choice) to Quebec (entirely my choice) was no biggie. They have never played each other in a single meaningful game and have never been in the same division or conference. Been my choice since the late 70's and is unlikely to change. No Saint. More a sinner. I'll sleep well tonight. COYS
peterballb
even if they don't beat arsenal while he's around
Falstaff the Fool
Fal I was about 17 at the time and the facts are I never stopped supporting spurs the option was taken out of my hands before such a life changing decision could be made.. also I hate south London so I don't think it would have worked out anyway.... "Tottenham till I die!!!"
T.H.F.Chris
Peter, you need explain nothing to us about your sports loyalties. You, and you alone, are the judge of your loyalties. But I know that if someone in Boston told people that he had become a Rangers or Montreal supporter after rooting for the Boston Bruins, he wouldn't be forgiven easily (if at all). Same thing if a Bruins fan suddenly announced he supported Edmonton or Winnipeg (not orginal 6 teams), although the passion of the animosity to someone who changed allegiances would be lesser than starting to support New York or Montreal. Perhaps we'd be more forgiving on VS if you announced you now are supporting Toronto FC rather than Spurs than if you announced you now are a rabid gooner. I guess rooting for Colorado Avalanche is a lesser offense given that Colorado has legalized recreational ganja this year.
Falstaff the Fool
Your hatred for South London explains your antipathy for Woolwich Arsenal.
Falstaff the Fool
In the days of the NHL and WHA it was not uncommon for people to support teams in the two leagues especially if they were hockey fans. Since being in the same league I have only supported the Nordiques/Avalanche. As I said, no biggie and no conflict. Players is another thing. I appreciate lots of players on lots of teams sometimes even when they are sticking it to my team. I know, shocking. COYS
peterballb
'Hatred' didnt know you could spell that as one word..
T.H.F.Chris
I still appreciate what a great player Bobby Moore was.
Falstaff the Fool
But I never could support an ice hockey club other than the Bruins!
Falstaff the Fool
I heard that Pele called Bobby Moore the best defender he saw in his life
Falstaff the Fool
I reckon our best chance of getting into Europe is to get the ferry from Dover!
Geofspurs
Sorry, just woke up and couldn’t resist that one.
Geofspurs
Fanny ... why are fans ‘setting themselves up’ by expecting to lose 10 games this season. How many times over the last 20 seasons have we lost LESS than 10 games?

No matter what happens each season the fans get a different journey out of it.
Geofspurs
Frank you do get points for the ‘degree of difficulty’ as you put it, but in a very subtle way. Attractive football will attract new young fans who will go on to support the club for life, like you and I. In 2010 we did not win anything but we impressed all of the footballing world with the way we played. A minor point I know, but something.
Geofspurs
Falstaff ... excellent comments regarding BAE, mate. Exactly right, no matter how you look at it.
Geofspurs
Geoff, I appreciate your appreciation of my comments, and I anticipate that you will appreciate my mutual appreciation.


Yours appreciatively,


the Fool

Falstaff the Fool
Rex ... Yes, mate, but it takes a while as you have to get to Dover first.
Geofspurs
Peter ... I’m not having a go at you, mate, but if you look up the thread and see how to create paragraphs it would make it so much easier to read your posts. And I do like an easier life! :-)
Geofspurs
I think the mutual appreciation society is progressing quite nicely. We need to build up the membership and then aim for the top four!
Geofspurs
THFC ... What’s wrong with South London. I’m from South of the river and fondly remember playing schoolboy football on the uphill, cratered pitches that were Blackheath!!
Geofspurs
Actually, I still live south of the river ... it’s just a different river.
Geofspurs
The problem with South London is obvious. The most odious club in existence is from South London: Woolwich Arsenal. Thus pollution from South London is spoiling North London. QED
Falstaff the Fool
Falstaff ... That's too restrictive .... there's much more of the world to explore south of the river than north of the river. It's an adventurer's playground.
Geofspurs
Aim for the horizon and keep going ... life’s an adventure. But take Spurs with ya!
Geofspurs
New thread required?
Geofspurs
I'm only joking, Geofspurs. But you must admit, sending their detritus north in the form of the Gooners wasn't very nice of them.
Falstaff the Fool
Falstaff ... Well, we didn't want them in the south either. Clever move when you think about it. The only mistake was not bringing Spurs south! :-) I might be 12 thousand miles away now but it only takes a second to get there ... just one push on the Foxtel control button. lol
Geofspurs
Rex I remembered footage seeing a player squaring up to the great Bobby Moore after a tangle. Any other player would have shoved him or worse but Bobby smiled, hugged his face with both hands like you would expect a Dad to do and gave the expression of understanding. Real class and a gentleman of the highest order. My Dad was fortunate to see him in the pub with his friends. He wore a jumper and jeans and still looked the best dressed man surrounded by suits. COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
Chris keeping Lloris will be extremely difficult. It wouldn't surprise me if someone comes in January with crazy money. Is this why we've kept Brad? Maybe I'm paranoid or just a plain old cynic but keeping Lloris for one season is all we can hope for. Hope I'm bloody wrong :) COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
James ... What happens to LLoris probably depends on how things go for us this season. If we do well he might want to stay.
Geofspurs
Geof I really hope that happens but like you said we need to keep him happy and the only way is to win matches and stay competitive. On a positive note I'm looking to see how the new boys fit in. Fazio and Benji is just the tonic to strengthen the defence. Now we need some champagne football :) COYS!
a.k.a.james1spurs
When we had Modders, VDV and Bale, it was easy to imagine that we had a quality of squad (but not the depth) to eclipse Liverpool and Arsenal and challenge the the other three. Hard to imagine now I'm afraid. We have the depth but not the player quality so we are dependent on the quality of the coaching to produce a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
Love totty
tim is not predicting. it's just an average comment of loads of other pundits. A prediction would be spurs are going to win the PL or to be relegated...
SpursWho
 

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