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Keeping It Real

Keeping It Real

Geofspurs sent Vital Spurs the following:

We are second in the Premier League. We have the best home record. We have conceded less goals than any other team at home. We have the best defensive record in the EPL. Only one team has conceded less goals than us away from home. Only one team has won more games than us. No team has lost fewer games than us. We compare well in goals scored with all other teams. We are well in front of the two-points-per-game average that usually results in a top four finish. We are in the semi-final of the FA Cup. We have not lost a game when Kane has been missing (apparently). We have suffered long term injuries to key players throughout the season. In terms of draws, we are virtually on a par with all other top teams except one. We are well above our neighbours who must have trouble sleeping. We have a manager that has overseen all of the above and who relates well to the club, the players, the supporters, and the media. We have a settled squad of players (apart from a couple on the fringe) who enjoy playing with each other, for each other, and for the club. And still, for some supporters, it's not enough!

What does the above say about the state of other PL teams in comparison to Tottenham? Either we are doing something special and exciting or we are in the poorest league with the poorest teams in Europe. Which is it? And yet we still have Tottenham supporters who talk about; a winning mentality, about how can we survive without Kane's goals, about too many draws, about a lack of back-up goal scorers(?), about the lack of depth in some positions. We'd get less negativity from Arsenal supporters than some of our own at the moment! I'm sure we will drop more points and, when we do, all of the above will be forgotten and frenzied hysteria, by some, will reign again. It isn't perfect for any club and it never will be. Injuries could derail our season. It's football. It happens. Accept it!

I have read several comments on VS about how selling Dier for big money would be good business. Really? Is Dele Alli's best mate so expendable to the squad? Can he no longer do a good job? How would such a sale be viewed by his team-mates in terms of loyalty and trust? Most of us know how football works but this team are too young to be cynical. If he was not good enough for the squad, fine...but he is good enough. One snowball can start an avalanche. Is it worth the risk?

I cannot believe all the amazingly stupid comments on the Swansea thread. Some supporters really need to understand that a football game lasts for 90+ minutes and is full of twists and turns. If our team gave up as easily as some of our supporters (and I use the term loosely) we would be fighting a relegation battle. Does any supporter expect that we will never drop points again? Some seem to. Here's some advice...turn your phone off and watch the game!

Our off-field progress is well known. Our on-field progress is obvious. We have a plan which is working. We have a vision for the future. We have a club which is united in the desire to follow that plan and attain that vision. But there are 19 other teams who want the same thing. It's a competition! THFC can only do the best it can with the resources at its disposal...and the reality is that there are some clubs with greater resources. Anybody who knows anything about football has given credit to the way MP is managing the team and the results the team are achieving on the field. Everyone, it seems, except some of our own supporters. Their criticism stems from some unrealistic view that we have to win trophies NOW. But you have to admire the tenacity they show in trying to find something to criticise. The more optimistic supporters, ironically, accept that it is not that easy to create a future which will bring sustainable success on the park. It does not happen overnight.

We are currently seeing one of the most successful periods on the field this club has had since the sixties. I don't mean successful in terms of trophies (hopefully that will come), but rather successful in terms of our football brand and supporter-enjoyment. Our profile, globally, is on the rise and our progress is being recognised. Obviously we need to keep going forward. We all know that the wheels could drop off. Nothing is certain. The only way to rationally assess the club's progress is to wait for the end of the season and compare it with last season. But it seems to me that we'd have to lose all of our remaining games for our progress to be questioned. The other question at season`s end, which is probably more crucial is...did we enjoy the season however it ends? Not sure what happened to the English sense of humour and the ability to laugh at themselves but I guess the best way to sum it all up so far is, it could be worse...we could be Arsenal!

COYS!

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Writer:Geofspurs
Date:Friday April 7 2017
Time: 7:41AM

Comments

1
Superb article Geoff. As to the all important question 'did we enjoy the season however it ends? - a resounding yes. This is the best league form that I can remember. We were always a renowned cup team - although our cup form, in all competitions with the odd exception, has generally been below par over the last 15 years or so - but the league is by far the most important competition for me. Being 38 matches long, it's a true test and to be honest I never expected to see Spurs competing at the very top. If we can maintain this standard I'm certain trophies will soon follow.
Gary Onedaysoon
07/04/2017 08:09:00
0
Well said, Geof. Agree with this 100% - Had exactly the same conversation with regards selling Dier/how it affects Alli on Saturday night - could we get a player as capable as him in numerous positions for the same money, that is guaranteed to gel with the rest of the squad? Almost certainly not. We don't need to sell any first teamers this summer, and we wont.
Freundian Slip
07/04/2017 08:12:00
0
Geof, yes yes yes yes, you have said what i have been thinking but you have said it a lot better then i ever could, i wonder if it is a age thing (65yrs young this month) that we older ones know how good things are (apart from the famous double in 1961 and all that) this style of football and the consistency of wins it is just fantastic, and there are more pluses such as one of the best training facilities and a new stadium in a few years oh can it get any better (yup i think so) keep watching and enjoy the ride, oh by the way did i mentioned that we are way above you know who.
spurs50yrs
07/04/2017 08:29:00
0
Excellent article, Geofspurs! I've been on the verge of writing something similar myself but I don't think I could have been as articulate as you. Re Eric Dier. I am tired of hearing negativity about this guy. He's worth his place for himself, not just because he's Dele Alli's best pal, although you didn't quite say that. Dier is unfortunate in a way, because he can play in several positions and qualifies for that dreaded moniker 'utility'. Such players tend to be underrated and this guy most certainly is. He keeps it simple and doesn't 'showboat'. You don't see stepovers and long mazy runs from him. He rarely gives away possession but it is his reading of the game that is so impressive, especially from a 23 year old. He gets himself into the right place, early. This guy could be a future Spurs captain. I'm not sure whether you mentioned this but we finished the season last year, admittedly after that sad implosion, with 70 points. We have 65 already, with 8 to play and it is quite possible that on current form, we will finish with more points than Leicester did last year. But, as you point out, that still won't be good enough for some.
SpokaneSpur
07/04/2017 08:52:00
0
People have short memories (not talking about winning the league...as that was too long ago now....) but about Dier. Last season he was one of the first names on the sheet, and he started FIFTY-EIGHT games in all comps for us last season - at various positions. When we rested CBs, he moved to CB, so he did not ever get a rest. Plus he played for England and the Euros. Last season was his real breakthrough. Now he is having that stereotyped "sophomore" season where you follow a season that is hard to back up. It did not help his cause when we sign Wanyama, who is more of a natural in that CM holding position. Everyone can see that Dier is not having the same season as last year, but has his value gone down...? No....and that is despite a troubled season. His value won't go down. So no need to sell in case the offers disappear... I am sure he wants to stay, and we want him to stay. He is the right age, an England international (sadly not a homegrown....silly rules), covers primarily CM, CB and also RB, has an eye for goal, and doesn't moan when rotated or moved around. He is the future of this club, and I believe he will settle down at CB at some point, especially as Jan will be 30 this year and Toby is 28. Yes we have CCV at the club, but he may take years to get up to speed. The other point is that we are now thriving on consistency of squad & management. We do not want to chop and change players too much, especially ones who have proven that they can perform at top level - such as Dier. This consistency is what we are building upon. As we can see with Sissoko, Janssen, N'Koudou, Lamela, Davies, Son, that spending the money is no guarantee of instant impact. So why sell Dier when we know what we are going to get from him, and try to re-invest that money for some unknown quantity? We have proven in the last 2 seasons that our squad only needs fine tuning. No need for any major sales to fund signings.... I am sure we have a budget to bolster next season, and that Dier will be a part of that.
TonyRich
07/04/2017 09:02:00
0
Geof - you have an opinion, and a lot of the points you list are very true and valid. It is true that there are many things to rejoice about at the moment. Where I struggle with your article is the seemingly judgmental tone you use in describing other poster's comments. Calling other posters's comments stupid ("I cannot believe all the amazingly stupid comments on the Swansea thread"), and questioning their love of the club ("some of our supporters (and I use the term loosely)") is just uncalled for. Much like you are entitled to your opinion, I think you should respect the fact that for some supporters, the ongoing trophy drought remains a big dark spot on the picture, and until we do win something, none of the positives you list will really fulfill them. You very quickly brush over the lack of trophies, yet talk about our brand and worldwide exposure. How long do you think the team will maintain this glowing image if we fail to win anything? If you look into brand recognition, teams like Man City are arguably more popular worldwide than Arsenal, despite not having nearly as much historic success. Why? They have won things recently. To summarise, I think you are right in talking about the positives around the club, and you're very entitled to do so. For the fans who worry more than you do about the club's lack of recent titles, I think it's also perfectly fine for them to do that.
BelgianSpur
07/04/2017 09:15:00
0
Also I am tired of hearing about our "implosion" last season. Even BBC interviewer said we "blew it" in terms of the title. Again people have short memories. We lost to leicester in Jan, and were 7 points behind. Then we went on a 6 game winning streak to claw our way into contention. Then we lost away to the Hammers and Leicester went on a 5 game winning streak to restore their gap. After that we were hyped up as title contenders but from that point on we were never in it. We had commendable draws to Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal and one slip at home to WBA where we drew. We won every other game barring the last two. So we did not implode, nor did we blow the title - all we did was have a tougher run in. The only implosion was in the last 2 games where we did "blow" second place.
TonyRich
07/04/2017 09:25:00
4
Belgianspurs, reading your comments is exactly what this article is all about, no need to say more
spurs50yrs
07/04/2017 09:27:00
0
BelgianSpur - yes there has been a lack of trophy action. But people have short memories when they forget the 2 cup finals that Spurs have lost in the last few years. Yes we lost them. But we lost to vastly better teams than us at the time. Beating them was a long shot at the time. Things are different now. We KNOW that we can give these guys a game now. We are getting closer, and we still have a chance this season. Most of the trophies are taken by the richest sides now. It is no longer shared around like it was when Spurs won the odd trophy. The best way for spurs to get trophies is to keep doing what we are doing: keep improving the squad, keep the best performers at the club, keep the manager at the club, improve consistency, and be good enough to beat the rich clubs.
TonyRich
07/04/2017 09:31:00
0
Thank you Geoff for a refreshingly upbeat and tremendously fair appraisal of our beloved Spurs
shelf88
07/04/2017 09:45:00
1
TonyRich, I completely agree with your comment at 09:25:00. I also think the notion that MrP's teams always collapse at the end of the season is also an often repeated myth. As for the article Geof, I agree with a lot of it. I will add, that the mid game comments I take with a pinch of salt, as it is when we're all at our most emotional. During and immediately after games, especially while losing, is where you are least likely to read anything rational on here, which is understandable. Last of all, as the article alludes to, sometimes, if you want a truly balanced view of how our club are currently doing, you have to step outside of your bubble and listen to what fans of other clubs are saying about Tottenham. You'll find a lot of begrudging praise, genuine admiration, envy and an almost desperate hope, that a "big" club will take Pochettino off our hands ;)
Guyver
07/04/2017 09:57:00
0
What a load of old rubbish
spurs50yrs
07/04/2017 10:31:00
0
The only bone of contention with the article Geof (A great article btw) is about the 'in-match' comments and funny enough, Guyver goes and covers my thoughts perfectly at 09:57. In-match is exactly as Guyver says, riding emotions and openly expressing one's observations AT THE TIME. I have also read several posts (including on the FORUM) where peeps have been happy to digest a large slice of the humble pie. Surely that's what it is all about. We are all wiser after the event and I welcome those in-match posts and see how the manager/players impact the changes and review the end result in the context. Every sport generates emotions, imo, none more so than football and the high and lows of the event affect each individual differently. I remember there being anything up to 100 in-match posts not so long ago. So hardly any wonder that the post count continues to drop if we discourage such reaction but bathe only in the end glory or drown our sorrows moping. One could also argue that the managers on the touchline should not react to a player missing a sitter or jumping up and down prematurely after the 1st goal! COYS!
Critical_Spur
07/04/2017 10:47:00
1
Well you raised all the negatives in that article. How about lack of rotation, useless substitutions and no plan B to complete the misery and make some feel at home. The small group of repeat moaners are either glass half empty or brain half empty spectators - not supporters. Remember Harry Kane - a first division player at best. Wanyama - not an upgrade, Danny Rose - not good enough. Eric Dier - will never make a midfielder. Pochettino - not a A list manager. I could go on and on but you get the picture. Must be a London attitude or just an opinion turning out to be slightly wrong.
camper
07/04/2017 10:48:00
1
I have no problem with Spurs considering the benefits of selling Dier for 50m to Utd, as long as they pay as much interest in considering the negatives. As Dele-Arri says, the negatives are clear for all to see. It could be Bale all over again. 90 mill did not come close to compensating for the loss of Bale. The other difference is that we are finishing 2nd/3rd now. Selling players that you do not need is fine, but selling ones that help you get second just because someone offers you a suitcase of money no longer makes sense to us. We should only sell now when either we want him to go, or if the player himself wants to go. The fee should no longer come into it for core/key players. Offer 20 million for Wimmer? Yes consider it due to the fee. Over the odds for Dier? Consider the negatives of losing him irrespective of the fee. Not to mention the negative of helping to strengthen Man U - a rival who could be taking our place next season as a result.
TonyRich
07/04/2017 11:21:00
0
The Dier thing, it was only 1 poster that said he should be sold, everyone else disagreed......The best friend part with Alli is nothing, do we think if we sell Dier, Alli will leave to follow him cos he's his best friend, or leave Spurs to join another team that Dier doesn't play for. Hopefully we will keep them for a long time but I expect Alli if he continues to perform so well to leave at some stage. TR/Guvyer so agree with your posts about MP and our supposed implosion.
Ossie
07/04/2017 11:26:00
0
I just think it's dangerous to paint everyone with the same brush. As Guyver and Critical point out, judging people's emotional reactions during games if very rarely a good measure of their true opinions. I full agree - well worth pointing out. On top of that, just because someone is negative about one specific thing doesn't mean that they are systematically negative overall. Sure there are a few posters who do nothing but complain, but you can count them on one hand. Most others will go from pure joy to frustration depending the subject (look at Frank's hugely positive post after the Swansea game as a recent example), and can't be pigeon-holed into "positive" or "negative" all the time. I personally would never sell Dier, but I'm less convinced by Janssen. Does that make me positive for believing in Dier, or negative for having doubts about Janssen? It isn't black and white for me. Just a lot of varying opinions that come together on any specific subject, with a wide spectrum of points of view. Apparently the concept is too complicated to grasp for people like spurs50years, who would just label the whole thing "a load of old rubbish". Fair enough.
BelgianSpur
07/04/2017 11:33:00
0
camper - the exact opposite could also be said about the posters who were convinced Tom Carroll was going to be a great player, Townsend was going to be a Spurs legend, Paulinho being the next Lampard,... Being positive about everything all the time doesn't make you right either. All of us can probably point to things we said which turned out to be wrong, and other things which turned out to be true. The biggest thing for me is whether posters hold their hand up afterwards and recognise when they were wrong. A good few often do, and great. A lot of people who call Dembélé a beast now were ready to cut ties with him after 2 seasons. Similarly, you don't see too many people who are currently hugely optimistic about Sissoko do you? He may yet score the winner in the FA Cup final for us. Everyone is entitled to opinions. Nothing wrong with that. I don't think anyone should try to sway opinions in one direction or turn VS in a totalitarian forum where only happy thoughts are allowed. I though we'd had this discussion a few weeks ago but somehow it keeps being brought up again. I thought Tino had been very clear on this and I'm just surprised that this is on the table again.
BelgianSpur
07/04/2017 11:45:00
2
BS. There is a difference from about the comparison you make. It is about supporting our own and giving time and chance before condemning a player. Even then until moved on he deserves backing if he is trying. Opinions are great rosy or negative but booing etc does not help anyone. But some always lean to criticise every time and rather than to make a positive comment. Here goes - I do not think Dembele is a beast - in stature maybe but winning a 50/50 header or scoring no.
camper
07/04/2017 12:46:00
0
camper - fully agree there. Booing helps no one. Fans often forget that players are humans. this being said, at the end of the day, a b
BelgianSpur
07/04/2017 12:56:00
0
Oops - the full version now. camper - fully agree there. Booing helps no one. Fans often forget that players are humans. This being said, at the end of the day, a bar has to be set somewhere in terms of quality, and players are either good enough or aren't, whether they are from the academy or bought. If young players get a bit more time to show their worth (and even that has a limit - in Carroll's case he had more than enough chances, and more than enough support early on), we probably are entitled to expect more immediate returns from established players. For what it's worth, I agree with your assessment of Dembélé. In Belgium we view him as the ultimate frustrating player - all the talent in the world, but little end product. What a player he could be! But the player he already is certainly adds value.
BelgianSpur
07/04/2017 13:03:00
0
At the end of the day this group of players and the manager will be judged by what they win. That's what creates the identity of a club, the successes and the failures. If they fulfil their potential then they will be the best since the doubles team. But as with England's "Golden Generation" potential isn't always fulfilled. If people choose to pretend potential and achievement are the same thing or winning doesn't matter that's their choice. Somehow I don't think either the manager or the players see it that way.
jod
07/04/2017 15:06:00
0
So we can't post on how the team is doing during a game. Wait until it's over to post, so why at start of ur article has given us stats when the season ain't over as a lot can change as it's 38 game season
123spurs
07/04/2017 19:13:00
2
BS .... Just got back from a trip to Perth. I take your point about the ‘stupid’ inference. But even very intelligent people can make stupid remarks ... as you’re aware I’ve often done it myself! My main point was that, as soon as we drop our next point, comments about ‘plan B’ and ‘a winning mentality’ will hit the thread. The season’s results and performances will go out the window like they never existed. For a Spurs supporter to make such comments would be, to me, stupid and undeserved by the squad and manager ... especially as other clubs and their supporters are currently full of praise for everything Tottenham. I have made negative comments in the past and will no doubt do so in the future ... but only when it’s deserved, not because I’m disappointed at dropping a point. It might be my imagination but I have the sense that you were a lot more positive before we started doing so well. Sorry if I’m wrong but I do enjoy reading all your comments whether I agree or not.
Geofspurs
08/04/2017 06:13:00
1
I really liked this article, both for its content (well written Geoff) and for the reaction it produced. When I post something I hope someone will disagree with it or the conversation ends there. A little bit of banter brightens my day too ( as I recover from a broken leg) but no-one needs to be personally abusive. Religion is the only valid excuse for real hatred apparently and ironically. COYS love this team however the season ends.
Love totty
08/04/2017 08:45:00
0
LT ... Agree with your post, mate. Good to see so much positivity on the thread too. I was getting worried!
Geofspurs
08/04/2017 09:49:00
0
Geof - for what it's worth, in my opinion you are a hugely valuable member of VS, always willing to debate. We don't always agree but I respect your opinions. My comment above was just there to say that in my mind, everyone on VS should be welcome to voice opinions, positive or negative. I know you agree and probably didn't intend to make anyone in particular feel bad, but in my reading of the article, I just thought that some posters might take offence to it. But as I said, there is a lot to feel good about at the moment, today's thrashing of Watford the most recent example. And another Dier goal to boot! Not for sale!
BelgianSpur
08/04/2017 16:23:00
0
Hi Geof - Great article - Negative is as Negative does, you will never stop it... You can embrace it, argue with it, or give it no valuable time or energy and even chuckle at it in an in-game thread, when were 1-0 down, with 75, 60, 45, 20, 10, or even 2 mins to go. Even when we eventually win the Premier League it will never stop. Thankfully its just someone's opinion and just like life, it is what it is. 2-1 Saturday against Bournemouth.
BestCaseScenario
10/04/2017 22:02:00
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