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You Can Shove FFP Where The Sun Doesn't Shine

You Can Shove FFP Where The Sun Doesn't Shine

European clubs with the most money are simply putting two fingers up at the FFP (Financial Fair Play) rules. I mean what on earth is going on?

There are poor countries dotted around the world who's GDP (gross domestic product - the total value of everything produced by all the people and companies in the country) is less than what PSG are going to fork out for Barcelona's Neymar. I mean, just imagine what £199m could do (plus his £40m a year salary) to improve countries like the Central African Republic - GDP per capita: $656 (£535), Democratic Republic of Congo — GDP per capita: $784 (£639), Burundi — GDP per capita: $818 (£667) - I'm sure you get the picture.

That's the last on world politics!

Summer transfers

Shall we begin with Tottenham Hotspur FC?

Out

Connor Ogilvie (Gillingham) Loan
Luke McGee (Portsmouth) Undisclosed
Kyle Walker (Manchester City) £45m
Federico Fazio (Roma) Undisclosed
Clinton Njie (Marseille) Undisclosed
Tom Glover (Central Coast Mariners) Loan
Anton Walkes (Atlanta United) Loan

In

 photo tumbleweed_zpst3vnndbi.jpg

Top Premier League Summer Transfers

Benjamin Mendy: Monaco to Manchester City
Price: £52m

Danilo: Real Madrid to Manchester City
Price: £26.5m

Alvaro Morata: Real Madrid to Chelsea
Price: £60m

Tiemoue Bakayoko: Monaco to Chelsea
Price: £40m

Romelu Lukaku: Everton to Manchester United
Price: £75m

Antonio Rudiger: Roma to Chelsea
Price: £29m

Alexandre Lacazette: Lyon to ArsenalPrice: £46.5mMohamed Salah: Roma to Liverpool
Price: £34m

Victor Lindelof: Benfica to Manchester United
Price: £30.75m

Ederson: Benfica to Manchester City
Price: £35m

Bernardo Silva: From AS Monaco to Manchester City
Price: £43 million

FFP

My understanding was, when it was introduced Financial Fair Play was to try and balance out what a club could spend based on its income. I know my explanation is simplistic and so if you tap / click here you can read the rules for yourself.

So, if you are Manchester City FC, PSG and the like and you have limitless money coming in from the Middle East then, in theory you could buy every single best player in the world and then, over the following decades dominate your respective league. I mean just look at Chelsea? They've been snapping up the world's best youth talent since a certain Russian purchased the club some years ago.

Sanctions

If a club falls foul of the FFP then UEFA can hit them with fines (look at City a couple of years ago - reduced CL squad and fine) etc. They (UEFA) can even stop clubs taking part in the Champions or the Europa League. But, do Europe's governing body want to cut their nose off to spite their face? Not on your nelly! They want the so-called glamorous clubs endorsing their products.

So, in my opinion, they (UEFA) can shove their FFP rules where the sun doesn't shine. I mean, this is what the wealthy clubs are doing - right?



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:Tino
Date:Thursday August 3 2017
Time: 9:19AM

Comments

0
Accountants always find a way around this like the Emirates sponsorship deal with City.
vicspur
03/08/2017 09:54:00
5
I agree completely. FFP is total crap, it was only ever meant to penalise English clubs, to stop them from out spending the 2 Biggest Spanish clubs. Don't get me started on how unfairly La Liga is arranged, imagine what some of those smaller clubs could do if the money was distributed more fairly like the premier league! Not that I believe that the Premier league is financed fairly, I think the tv money should be shared evenly between all teams, all money earned by Prem clubs should have a small percentage taken from it and that should filter down to lower league ENGLISH (English in caps because my tax money is already spent in places on things that disgust me) clubs to improve the over all standard of English football. The big problem is what now, we've stuck our fingers up at UEFA and FIFA too (just because they deserve it for being crooked and scummy) but we still don't have the money to spend unless you can inclench Joe Lewis' tight fist... I believe that Levy would spend the money if it was there to spend (how well he'd spend it is debatable) and Poch certainly would (no manager would willingly apply financial limitations to their ambitions, if they can spend their way to trophies 99.9% would) so where do we go now? We can't spend money that we haven't got! Unless Joe Lewis and Levy decide to put their billions in to the club for nothing but fun we stand still on spending. Fortunately our club hasn't been built on blood money from the Middle East or Russia, I want to see Spurs win titles in my lifetime but not at the expense of the club's soul.
Martyn Gray-Horwood
03/08/2017 10:16:00
0
Spoken from the heart Martyn.I agree that it is nobler to progress without oil or oilygarc money,but Arsenal,Liverpool & Utd seem to invest heavily in quality players without them.Is it something to do with revenue from turnover? The new stadium will help,but the way to really increase revenue is by winning trophies & increasing your world fanbase.That means investing in top players & selling a lot of shirts.You have to speculate to accumulate in business.
Greavesaboveall
03/08/2017 10:40:00
0
Spurs don't need to worry about FFP as spurs are about making money and not winning trophies. Levy doesn't want to spend the Walker money on any player who could add something to the squad. One trophy in 16 years says it all, plus a manager who hasn't won any trophys, points to another trophy less year. Spurs will still be competitive as they have a strong spine Verts, toby, wan, dem, ali and kane. CE and Son give the team a bit of x factor so a top4 is possible. Spurs have always been crap in Europe under Levy so don't think any thing will change their. Spurs could win a domestic cup depending on the draw if they have to play a top 6 team then the likely hood is that spurs will lose. Buying players so late in the window doesn't give the player time to get used to new training environment and usually takes them a year to settle. At this stage a player with a similar skill set to Son would be my preference Costa and under both looked good and in the spurs price range but spurs didn't buy them. Mahrez is the player that could add something and hit the ground running he would cost about 40mil ish. I hope spurs buy him
Palmover
03/08/2017 11:08:00
0
I expect Levy to demand over 20 mill for Wimmer now!
Critical_Spur
03/08/2017 11:10:00
0
Big season ahead For KWP, Winks, Onomah, GKN and Janssen. They all have to step up to the plate i think giving them a chance is a good idea.
Palmover
03/08/2017 11:11:00
0
An interesting speculative article by Sky last week re. Neymar's move creating a domino effect. Wonder if things really will start hotting up in the market?

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10967775/barcelonas-neymar-to-psg-imagining-the-domino-effect-on-the-premier-league-transfer-market
Critical_Spur
03/08/2017 11:17:00
1
Greavesaboveall - "You have to speculate to accumulate" talk to a Leeds fan and they will explain how that works out . United have three times our income, one of the four richest clubs in the world, so a lack of oil money isn't a major problem for them. Arsenal have abut 60% more income than us having built a new stadium years ago. What we are doing now is trying to close that gap. Liverpool are the closest with only about 40% more cash than us. The difference though is they aren't building a new stadium, short term gain for long term pain. If you really believe spending cash you don't have is going to lead to anything but bankruptcy then I hope you never have to manage money.
jod
03/08/2017 11:25:00
3
Several things, one, the phrase "you have to speculate to accumulate" is such a lie it isn't funny. It is the complete opposite. Speculation leads to loss, especially in business, the lottery and football. Having a vision, a proper plan and executing it despite criticism and pressure from outside so that in the end you become great on a consistent basis is the way to build a proper dynasty.

People are touting all sorts of players without considering the type of player Poch likes. Is Mahrez a Poch type? When you watch him play, do you see him tracking back? I have many time seen him actually avoid making a tackle. I doubt highly that he is a player we would go after. I said it before the window began. We will not be making many signings, one or two PL players who can come in now and play and one or two young guys to add to the under 21s who are ripe for development. I still feel exactly the same.
jvd
03/08/2017 11:30:00
0
jvd, funny how Vardy and Mahrez went pretty quiet last season. So much for Mahrez wanting the 'big' move. PL teams are not quite queuing up for his signature. IMO, he has shot himself in the foot and I bet he thought he be plying his trade at Ar$en-all!
Critical_Spur
03/08/2017 11:46:00
0
I'd also be interested in seeing how Leicester manage with the salary increases they dished out after the PL triumph. The owner has probably recalled all the BMW's he handed out!
Critical_Spur
03/08/2017 11:48:00
0
"Money we don't have", more accurately money we won't spend. The main difference between us and Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and Utd, is the attitude of the owners. Some are ambitious and determined to be successful, the other is too busy building a property empire and making money, never spending a penny when a halfpenny will do, hence our 1 trophy in 16 years, compared to their returns.
Frank
03/08/2017 12:18:00
0
Mr Plattini's brainchild the FFP regs was always destined to fail, high profile owners and accountants have far more demanding rules to avoid than this, they take on tax authorities never mind little EUFA, they are only small potatoes, hence the £196M Neymar deal going through unopposed.
Frank
03/08/2017 12:24:00
0
Liverpool were on the brink of going bust under the previous owners only few years ago, but they have soon recovered to be 40% better off than us, but they have still carried on investing and trying the sign top players. Why do people assume that the additional revenue from the new stadium will be invested in the football club, rather than Bahamas Joe's back pocket, previous evidence suggests this is unlikely.
Frank
03/08/2017 12:34:00
0
Jod when Leeds Utd got into trouble they never had a tax evading billionaire.
Frank
03/08/2017 12:41:00
0
And Liverpool have a 54,000 seater stadium frank, rather than just critique the club ... suggest player we can buy for whom are willing to warm the bench.
E17YID
03/08/2017 12:41:00
0
There is one other way to control it. Today a club can have 17 overseas players but need to have 8 homegrown players to name a squad of 25. That means that a lot of squads now have their named 17 but only have 4 or 5 homegrown. That means that the first eleven is mostly foreign and the homegrown players can sometimes be sparingly used to make up the number on the bench. The managers then spend their budget on mostly expensive foreign imports. Now imagine if you turned that the other way round and said that you need 15 homegrown players and can only have 10 overseas. Suddenly, guys like Mourinho, Pep and Klopp would need to show their skills differently by finding and nurturing homegrown players more. The emphasis would be back on the academies and it would promote the national team as well.
muttley
03/08/2017 13:03:00
0
When I said speculate to accumulate ,I meant it in the old fashioned way-investment.I ran my own business sucessfully for 35 years & used borrowed money [bank] to get started & keep investing.That's how business works Jod.You use other people's money to expand your business.That's how we are building a completely over the top stadium-on borrowed money.I believe you must invest in the team as well,otherwise you risk having a second rate team in a first rate stadium.We know levy has banked £ 75 million in player sales ,he must invest that in a couple of quality players to take us to the next level.Or don't you want to win anything ever Jod?
Greavesaboveall
03/08/2017 13:15:00
0
I will presume for the sake of argument, that if it were not for the FFP regulations, that the spending would be even more crazy than it now is without such restrictions. ..... If clubs fall foul of them then they are initially fined and could then go on to have league points deducted. If for instance Man City were proven to break the regulations again, they could risk being expelled from the CL. .... These punishments are not fake punishments and they will be exercised. However, the crucial thing is proving such misdemeanours and of course there are ways and means to be found of sidestepping such regulations. Also, Clubs can and will instigate legal proceedings against UEFA if they feel they are in the right or at least able to prove their "innocence". ..... I don't believe that FFP is a bad idea, I think it's a great one but whether or not it is or can be as effective as it should be is another matter.
Dele-Arri
03/08/2017 13:44:00
0
When a business such as ENIC make huge investments into a football club like Spurs, then this is in effect speculating to accumulate. Speculation in this sense means there is always a certain risk attached to it. In other words there is always the chance that the business will fail to achieve what it has set out to do. To take such huge financial risks (i.e., Investing in the new stadium) there has to be a balanced and sensible approach to help minimise such risks and there has to be a contingency to deal with occasional and/or unexpected losses. ..... However, given all this, professional football clubs are so much more involved than being just a business (or even sport). (I ain’t talkin’ "cups”). There are family generations of supporters that have invested their time, money, life and passions into it. And, there is the complete local history and strong cultural identity that is deeply embedded in an area and the business and social community of a long standing club. It also has more far reaching implications spread out to a global audience and to the continued success of the sport itself as a whole. ......... To throw stupid money around as an addicted gambler in a casino might do, and without regard to any sound, long term business sense, is to ignore all this and show a disdain and disregard for - not just the top end of the game - but also the grass roots of it. And in turn, endanger the integrity of a sport, that goes way beyond the money, in peoples hearts and minds. … Without recognising all this and paying it due respect, it not only risks jeopardising the long term future of the sport but of course, the very business itself of making money from it. … . As Danny "Shylock" Levy would say: It’s “Unsustainable" MAAAN! ……. On me ‘ead Son!
Dele-Arri
03/08/2017 15:36:00
0
Greavesaboveall - So for £75m you are going to buy two players to take us to "the next level" That presumably means two players as good if not better than the ones we already have. So the first question is can you name the two players we can get for that money. The next question is how are you going to pay them ? Presumably they will want more than we are already paying, which will mean players like Kane will want a pay increase. You seem to think a player and a stadium are similar investments, they aren't. The stadium will probably double our match day income and will be an asset for the next hundred years. A player is someone who will if we are lucky improve the squad for a few years. If we aren't lucky they can actually be a liability that drains money and gives nothing back (Sissoko). If you have one of a handful of the top players in the world (Messi, Ronaldo etc) a player can generate serious commercial revenue. But even most top players don't have that kind of pull. Certainly no one we could afford does. I have to say that you don't really sound like a businessman, no evidence of a clearly thought out and costed strategy here.
jod
03/08/2017 16:58:00
0
Frank - One of these days you will say something that actually makes sense, not today though. "The main difference between us and Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and Utd, is the attitude of the owners". No Frank the main difference is they all have more money than us. Its in the published accounts, you could read them but of course you won't. "Liverpool were on the brink of going bust under the previous owners only few years ago, but they have soon recovered to be 40% better off than us ". No Frank, Liverpool have 40% MORE INCOME than us. Whether they are better or worse off depends on how much they spend compared to how much they earn. Its basic finance but seems too complicated for you. "when Leeds Utd got into trouble they never had a tax evading billionaire", what does that mean ? "
jod
03/08/2017 17:06:00
0
First off, I said at the time they were brought in that FFPR were not designed to make a level playing field, they were introduced to protect and enshrine the rich clubs. Nothing I have seen since then makes me believe any different. Now if an oligarch buys a team, they have to build things slower so as to make ends meet within the rules as turnover does not just jump up overnight.

Yes, Liverpool, as a result of poor ownership decisions and mismanagement, have had their turnover drop significantly. It has allowed Arsenal to overtake them on the financial side and has resulted in Spurs finishing ahead of them 7 of the past 8 seasons, notwithstanding the fact that Liverpool can still outspend Spurs. There is something to be said about spending wisely and living within your means. 16 Liverpool players made over 60k/week last season. How many of them are good enough to make it in to the Spurs starting lineup? I'd suggest that their wages are not spent in the best manner. The new stadium will help up bridge the 18-20M that we trail in game day receipts and on the chasm we have between us and them on the commercial side.

Where FFPR are a joke is on the sanction side of things. The fines are a joke and I have yet to see a top team turned away from Europe and, I expect, it will not happen. Spurs just need to keep building in the fashion that they have done. Bridge the gap with Liverpool and Arsenal and we will remain in the mix for CL every year. In the interim, chairman, manager and players need to learn to win. That is now essential for our growth to continue.

peterballb
03/08/2017 18:03:00
0
There is no doubt we should invest whatever monies we get from sales in to the squad, whether that is as a result of transfers, new salaries or bettering the wage packages of the current squad. I still don't expect Spurs to make major moves until after all the dust settles from the top teams. What will Barcelona now do? What knock-on effect will that have? Can Rabiot now be gotten as PSG will have to balance the books somewhat. There are lots of questions and we are still weeks away from knowing which of the better players will be available. I still believe Sissoko and Wimmer will be gone. Rimmer won't go until we have decided who is coming in. Sissoko going will allow us to bring in someone else. We don't have the funds to just buy and then remain stuck with players we can't sell or be forced to sell for way less than we are prepared to accept. The market still looks like it's waiting for certain dominoes to fall before everything falls in to place.
peterballb
03/08/2017 18:25:00
0
Jod spurs have finished above teams who have more cash and Lester actual won it. So it's about spending wisely. Most supporters are not scouts and are not privy to what spurs can pay so asking them who they would sign and how much wages said player would command is a bit unfair.
palmover
03/08/2017 20:50:00
0
I can see why some posters on here say it is the owners and some say its financial income. IMO its a bit of both...for example... Chavs owner puts in ?1b (thanks Peterballb) which I guess is various loans.. which has given them their success over last 12 years. This has counteracted their actual (47,000 seat stadium ?) turnover if you strip away stadium match day returns etc. Joe Lewis and Levy, Alan Sugar are jewish business men, and as such are much more concerned about profit margins. For instance.. I seem to remember Sugar bought THFC 22m took on EL Tel as manager amongst others, built west stand, Sold to ENIC with retaining ?22m in shares capital (so effectively, 100% in his original investment, plus capitol gains in values of THFC). ENIC are building a new stadium giving a more solid financial base to sell THFC at ?1b + so it is a balancing act for them to do this, and spend 100's of millions on players, which will negatively show on bottom line in the accounts.... I agree it is very frustrating for fans to see arsenal successes over last 15 years, and other PL clubs. But we are on the brink of having this success as well, as last 2 seasons have shown. COYS
Block D Spurs
04/08/2017 09:16:00
0
The one thing I don't quite ever get is this: Why, if one is a supporter that believes ENIC are only in it to build up the wealth and world standing of the club, just in order to eventually sell at a vast profit, that that is so bad for Spurs anyway? There's a strange kind of irony and funny sort of contradiction there. Because if they have been (supposedly) detrimental to the success of THFC as a football club, then it would be safe to assume that there would be no vast profit to be made in selling the club. And so, if one doesn't actually want them as our owners, then surely this is an ideal scenario for you, if you believe there is soon to be new ones. Because, those new owners would have to be multi billionaires with perhaps a far greater wealth than Lewis to afford to buy Spurs in the first place. These new owners should then be ideally placed to start investing much larger sums on players and their wage bills as, of course, there will be no new stadium to build, a training complex that would be tough to improve upon, along with, conceivably, one of the most respected and successful academies in world football. By contrast, If Abramovich were to soon sell Chelsea then...... Okay, so he would have left the club with an attractive looking trophy cabinet to admire, BUT, there will probably still be the same old Stamford Bridge standing there and on top of that, a Billion pounds plus worth of debt owing to the Russian. You see, it's all well and good for us to desire more money to be spent in order to achieve more immediate on the pitch success but tell me this, is it all about our own personal gratifications and here and now needs as a supporter and sod the future circumstances and stability of THFC? Or, is it about a more solid and stable future and sitting atop the table with the big boys, for many moons to come? Presuming of course that those new owners actually give a damn or don't **** up. Life, it ain't ever perfect and we can't always get what we want. But, if you try sometimes you just might find..... You get what you need. Meanwhile, whilst Spurs continue to build impressively for the long term future success of the club, my only need is to watch them continue to play some bloody good football and enjoy witnessing this almost inevitable rise. It's been said that hindsight is a wonderful thing but, foresight is better. Especially when it comes to Tottenham Hotspur. ..... When does it all kick-off? Can't wait. Can wait!
Dele-Arri
04/08/2017 12:21:00
0
Reading through this thread I find it more than a little sad that the focus of many supporters has shifted from enjoying match-day to focusing on the politics and financial aspects of the sport ... something nobody can change and something which detracts from the enjoyment of football. It’s not a question of burying one’s head in the sand over certain issues; it’s more about refusing to let them affect the passion we have for the game and, more importantly, for our club. I could go on but what’s the point. It’s a week until the season starts and I am looking forward to whatever happens, however it happens. COYS!
Geofspurs
05/08/2017 00:36:00
0
I see they are still working through the night on the stadium build. Someone must be committed to the cause.
Geofspurs
05/08/2017 00:41:00
0
Muttely-exactly, but the likes of Mouriniho Conte etc would just go elsewhere rather than face the struggle of bringing youth through. These managers want sucesss and don't want their cv threatened so they go to club with money and buy success.

I personally think this FFP is a load of rubbish. It will only hurt if it hits clubs where it hurts them. Throw them out of the PL into Championship or take 15 points of them, fines isn't going to work, and they are unlikely to throw them out of CL, also PL even though I should.

Where ever money is in vast amounts there is fraud imo. Look at our government, banks etc football is going the same way, it's ruined.

My biggest concern now is Barca are they going to come and unsettle Dele, Eriksen, Kane? I am totally dissolutioned with football and the finances, and it will be interesting to see where it ends, because it will, something will crash, the banks did, governments have, businesses do when they get out of control, everything has a life span, and as it stands I say football is going to crash at some point.
It'sME
05/08/2017 14:58:00
0
IM .... Unfortunately, I think you make some very valid points.
Geofspurs
06/08/2017 05:54:00
0
I can't see this bubble bursting any time soon. Football and global interest in it is growing exponentially as huge markets in China, India and the USA are exploited. The amount of money that globalisation and energy exploitation has put in nefarious hands will ensure that the madness continues for some time to come imo. Only regulation will curb it and i don't see much appetite for that yet. Talk of a European superleague has gone quiet but for how long?
Love totty
06/08/2017 18:34:00
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