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Are Us Spurs Fans The Most Pessimistic In The League?

Are Us Spurs Fans The Most Pessimistic In The League?

(spurboy61 sent Vital Spurs this article prior to yesterday`s game against Burnley.)

I ask this question because, whichever player we are linked with, bid for or even buy, someone jumps on here and instantly says that they've never heard of him and if they HAVE heard of him, he's not good enough/too expensive/past it and we should be buying somebody else at twice or three times the price, e.g. Gareth Bale, 'we lose every time he plays, sell him to the first idiot who'll give us £2m'.

Harry Kane, 'he'll NEVER make it as a Premier League striker, get rid.' Danny Rose, 'he's a bit of a show pony in midfield, he'll never be a regular first teamer'. Eric Dier, 'never heard of him, he can't be any good'. Dele Alli, 'why are we wasting money on him. If he was any good a bigger team would have snapped him up', etc etc.

Why doesn't anybody seem to think that Poch was installed as manager because a) he can spot a good player in the making, b) he can turn promising youngsters into top class players and c) he isn't scared to get rid of players if they don't buy into his work ethic?

If Poch decides that a certain player is the one he wants, that's good enough for me, after all, HE gets paid to spot and nurture talent, the rest of us just think we could do a better job. Given our financial constraints, can any of you think of a better manager for Spurs?

COYS

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Writer:spurboy61
Date:Monday August 28 2017
Time: 7:11AM

Comments

0
Sadly after the last 2 displays maybe we were stupid to cash in on Walker. I admittedly said trippier will be excellent , but he showed yesterday he's bang on average .. just a back up not a first team regular .. and we need Rose back asap. I'm not to fussed as burnely beat Chelsea at the bridge we just have something a miss so far maybe a sloppy cylinder .. top 4 and I will be happy if we can grind that out this season
E17YID
28/08/2017 08:28:00
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Spurboy61 - a very biased article for me. It's easy to point out only the successes, but where are the mentions of Fazio, Chiriches, Stambouli, Soldado, N'Jie, Sissoko, Janssen, and others? The reality is that the club have opted for a recruitment strategy which has delivered more bad than good. On another article recently, I had a look at the 18 players bought under MP, of which only 8 at the most could be considered successes (and this is counting players like Davies, who is a solid PL player, but is he really good enough for a top 6 club ?). Yes, the names you list have been successes, but they are not the norm, sadly. Yes, every club is going to make mistakes, but not more than 50% of the time. 8 out of 18 is not a good record, no matter how you put it. As for academy players, again Kane and Rose are the pick of the litter, but what about the Townsends, Masonson, Carrolls of this world? And that's not to mention the players who were sold on before reaching the first team (Harrison, Lesniak, Oduwa and many others). The fact that we have produced a couple of good players is promising, but are we really turning out more first team players than Southampton a few years ago (Lallana, Shaw, Ward-Prowse, Chambers,...), or West Ham a decade ago (Defoe, Ferdinand, Lampard, Cole,..)? Is pointing out cold hard facts considered pessimism? Or is it actually the opposite: fans getting carried away about a solid, above average academy but no more, which is being overhyped to excuse a lack of success on the transfer market?
BelgianSpur
28/08/2017 10:02:00
0
Missing Walker already.Where's the back up for Kane? Going in to the Champions League with an inadequate squad. Nothing changes in the mentality of the boardroom.
Greavesaboveall
28/08/2017 10:31:00
0
Not pessimistic, simply realistic and certainly more knowledgable about what needs to done. Would that Levyy. Poch and others would pay more attention to them!
Stan Rosenthal
28/08/2017 12:42:00
4
We often confuse realism with pessimism. Both Belgianspur and I, amongst others, are often seen as negative, mainly because we don't buy into often either groundless optimism, or blatant lies and half truths from the powers that be. I remember the justified euphoria surrounding the achievements of the Billy Nick trail blazing team, did we build a dynasty on that team no, although this predated ENIC's control so they cannot be blamed. Harry Redknapp got Spurs as newcomers in the CL to the QF (at that time no one had achieved this before), did we build on this, no. We have managed to finish 3rd and 2nd in successive seasons under MP, a great achievement with limited support from the owners, have we taken the opportunity afforded in this window to fuel further improvement to at least maintain our challenge, no. We will in all probability with the sales of Walker, Wimmer, N'Jie, Fazio etc. And very limited investment, make our now customary TW profit, to go into the kitty with the Sky millions, and the 2nd place prize money, dedtined not to be invested in player recruitment. Yes we will build a posh new stadium, to go with the training facilities, to enhance the value of the business and improve revenues that may or may not be reinvested in the team/ squad, depending on how much you trust or believe in ENIC's true intentions, but to do this we are neglecting even reasonable investment on the pitch, contrary to what was promised by our chairman. We can plead poverty all we want, but with a billionaire owner it simply won't wash. I personally have been a life long Spurs supporter and I will always support the team, but I cannot and never will find myself able to support Lewis/Levy and ENIC.
Frank
28/08/2017 13:38:00
0
MP says he is confident of getting "at least 3 more players in" with now just 3 days left of the window. I wonder will be working o/t scouring Google to identify them, or might we, just might we get in a game changer, a player to make a difference.
Frank
28/08/2017 13:44:00
1
Add me to the list Frank. Cannot believe what is happening with the transfer window at Spurs this year, shambles.
ro6ertj
28/08/2017 13:49:00
0
Realist, why can't we back up this great football with a trophy it's about time. Because we lack a leader we have poor concentration and the mentality to go to next level. The players we have how many medal have they won.
123spurs
28/08/2017 14:26:00
0
What a chance to push on, next season new stadium will be played Thurs nit footy, last 2 season were great finishes, now others have improved while we stay static, with all money around with sky, yet we fail to make a statement, janssen may not look great, but what must he be thinking, if he can't come in at home to Burnley, why is he still with us.
123spurs
28/08/2017 14:32:00
0
BelgianSpur - I think we over rate our academy, are they really doing that well against other academies? Chelseas killed them last season, other teams have beaten them, and personally I think there is too much hype about them. Everyone bangs on about Marcus Edwards, yet when called on for international duty he is a sub a lot of the time, so may be there are just better out there.

I think the biggest problem wi have at the club is we are the club of 'inbetween'. We cannot compete finacially with the other top five clubs, for whatever reasons, everyone will argue about them. However, trying to bring our academies in to the first team isn't easy because we are now looking to sustain a top four status and its hard to give these youngsters playing time when we are imo been slowly improving and over achieving with the first team starters. Players like Onamah, Edwards, are potentially good players but trying to get regular footy is hard for them and I think it takes a special kind of character to break into our team simply becuase we are now a top four team. This is why winks has done well. He has managed to take his opportunites when given, even if they have been a few minutes here and there. Onamah was given a fe minutes here and there and imo didn't take them, but he is on loan now and doing well. Will he be good enough for a top four team, not sure. It was like Pritchard, heard nothing about him since he left yet everyone raved about him and didn't want him to be sold.

I think we did make a mistake to sell Walker and was never convinced Trippier was good enough, and still don't. He is a decent footballer but the way we play, high line we need pace at the back whether that's a back four or wing backs, and Trippier and Davies hasn't got enough, but Davies has done alright, he has been staeady in Roses absence but we lost that threat offensively, but when we had walker we got away with losing Roses speed while he has been out because we still has speed and offensive play on the other side in Walker, I think you can manage with lack of pace one sied but not both, not for long term anyway.

I think we are pessimistic fans because we are frustrated at the years of nearly making it and all the swapping and changes, and even though we now have stability under Poch there is still that sense of not taking the next step, impatience, disbelief it can be done, because we have always fallen short.
It'sME
28/08/2017 15:00:00
0
Yesterday I was upset and frustrated at imo not ever being ready for the start of a season and obvious things never being sorted, like I said, no striker to help Kane when we know he always starts slow, and not getting players in for pre season etc.

today I am a bit better, I am trying to have faith that the lads and manager can turn it around, we have done last two seasons after a slow start and I didn't expect to win the title this season anyway simply because of the wembley factor. The lads and the manager overcome obsticles in the last two seasons so that shows me they can overcome the problems this season.

Now I am thinking if we had all our players fit and we get three more players in then our bench will probably look better than last season.

Lets take a look: If say we start with three at the back, Toby, Verts and new boy Sanchez (assuming he fits in) and we get Rose back (he gets over himself) and we get Aurier in at RB (he settles and is as good as Walker1) then we will have two in the midfield, lets say at the moment Dier and Dembele. The we play Dele and Eriksen and kane at top.

Our bench would consist of Davies and Trippier and may be the young lad Foryth if he comes, so similar to last season in terms of cover. We will have Wanyama and Winks for midfielder cover. Then we will have Lamela, Son, GK and janssen and if we get barkley and sell Sissoko then I think our bench looks better. imagine having Trippier, Davies, lamela, Winks, Son, barkley Janssen on the bench or even GK and just one defender, you get my drift. I think if we can bring in Barkley and Aurier we will look better especilayy if we get Lamela fit and back to his best by christmas. I still think we need a better striker and another creatvie goal scoring midfielder but things will look better I am sure.
It'sME
28/08/2017 15:11:00
0
Regarding the article, I am not sure many on here are questioning the potential quality of the proposed signings but more whether they will improve our play as a team. Sanchez looks a great prospect in his sales video, young, fast aggressive and skillful. If Poch is going to play a back 3 then Toby, Sanchez and Verts looks very good on paper. Aurier, a person of dubious temperament but good defensive and offensive skills as a RB or RWB and Foyth a young Centre Back. Are these the critical positions that need filling in our squad when our attacking players struggle to break down fairly ordinary defenses. We already have two RBs that would be perfectly adequate if played with a back proper back 3 and Rose to come back for the LB position. When Wanyama is fit again our CM is ok but the front 4 just do not deliver consistently at the moment. A striker to play instead of Kane would make him concentrate more, as would someone to play instead of Alli or Eriksen but at the moment those 4 turn out but they don't turn up.It seems that Poch doesn't think we can afford improvements in that area and adding more pace and toughness to the RB/RWB and CB in a three position will be enough to bring us back to the right level. Time will tell, but from what I have seen so far this season, unless he upgrades the players attitude from the first whistle it will not matter who is playing., Final thought on Levy and the Annual TW negative spend, he has apparently told Toby and others that he will review contracts when the window is closed, so he may be keeping money back to pay for bigger salaries.......I know and the pigs may be flying as I write, but it's just a thought.
Harry-Kari
28/08/2017 15:12:00
0
BelgianSpur, the repeated criticism you level at the clubs recruitment success rate can likely be applied even more so, to almost every other club in the league. It could be that a 40% success rate for example, is actually really good, although you'd still have to account for the fact that as a top 6 club, with a relatively small budget, finding/developing a player from the small pool of players who would be a long term success at the club, is more difficult than it would be for a mid-lower table club, with more room for improvement. You can always cherry pick Southamptons golden spell, or West Ham a decade a goal, but ultimately, the proof is in the pudding and pound for pound, based on the value and standard of players currently at the club, we are one of the most efficient spenders in Europe. I actually read a financial times article that placed us 4th in Europe I believe, with only Everton in the EPL more efficient.
Guyver
28/08/2017 15:51:00
0
Guyver - I haven't done the history of all our rivals' recruitment but let's just look at Liverpool's last 3 seasons of recruitment (I chose Liverpool because out of the 5 clubs richer than us, they are the closest to our budget): Mohamed Salah, Dominic Solanke, Andrew Robertson, Mané, Wijnaldum, Karius, Klavan, Manninger, Matip, Benteke, Firmino, Ings, Grujic, Milner, Gomez, Bogdan. In that lot of 16 players, 6 of them are starters of undoubted quality (Salah ,Mané, Firmino, Wijnaldum, Matip, Milner), 4 more are current squad players (Solanke, Robertson, Klavan, Karius), 2 of them are promising future players (Gomez, Grujic), and the rest (Benteke, Ings, Bogdan, Manninger) are "failures" (and I think there are mitigating factors for Ings and Benteke, the other 2 being reserve goalkeepers). That's 10 out of 16 having a significant impact on their current first team, and 12 out of 16 who can be considered good transfers so far (in that the players are still at the club and have a future). As you say, the proof is in the pudding. And while some of those have been expensive purchases, Milner and Matip were free agents, and more than half the names on that list were bought for less than 10 million (none of the fees in that list surpassing what we are reportedly paying for Sanchez). I am also just pointing out that our record of producing talent is not unheard of, and there are other similar examples out there (Southampton and Wet Ham just a couple of examples, but I'm sure there are more if we actually look into it).
BelgianSpur
28/08/2017 17:08:00
0
my personal feeling about recruitment is we are poor considering our clout even if we can't compete with the top five finacially. Under Poch I don't think it has improved. I think when you consider what we keep paying for the likes of njie, GK, stomboili, fazio and non of them are anywhere near good enough we could have brought better to sit on the bench.

When you consider Sissoko, 30m that season there were better out there and I am sure we could have gave them a good signing on fee to make up the loss in lower wage structure.

I do think our scouting and recruitment is still behind and needs improving and I thought Mitchel was brought in for that, but he soon went and so did baldini, so it makes you wonder what does go on behind closed doors? Why are we unable to hold on to a scouting team? and why do we end up buying silly players like Sissoko! is it more to do with getting good payment terms rather than getting what we need. Than again the fee being thrown around for Sanchez is quite high, if true you ask is this another risk? I would prefer to have got one decent player last season instead of two duds, Sissoko and Janssen, and the jury is out on GK so could been three duds. last season we spent about 60m on these three players and non of them made an impact, for me that is not good business and are they likely to make a impact this season, well Gk look okish in pre season, janssen didn't look any different and Sissoko was and is still not good enough and just doesn't fit in, so as it stands I am not sure we can rely upon them again this season, I am not being negative, just realsitic at this point which could change of course.

I don't see Origi coming to us, why would Liverpool sell to a rival? and is he likely to get any more game time with us than at Liverpool? I thought Burke WBA was a decent youngsters to look at while he was at Forest, be interesting if he improves. Surely there has to be some gems in the lower English divisions like Dele? I think this is where we need to look more, they learn their trade in England, more physical and hopefully better suited to PL! but it seems we are looking abroad again. Take Foryth, is he really going to break into our first 11? I have no problem with him coming but are we going to bring in any players that are going to break into first 11 and push other players because i seriously think Eriksen, dele and kane need competition to keep them on their toes. I am slightly concerned about Dele, he doesn't seem himself, I wonder if its a personal issue or a footballing/club issue? I think his work rate has dropped and he doesn't seem to think he has to work hard, sometimes that can happen when you got talent, you think you just have to turn up, is this creeping into his game? has he been listening to all the hype about himself? lets hope things improve after TW shuts and the squad is settled and I wouldn't mind seeing Dele dropped for England and I am glad Southgate said he hadne't made it yet, he hasn't won anything, he needs to keep his feet on the ground
It'sME
28/08/2017 18:34:00
0
Totally agree with Frank who like me has been a supporter since the 50's. We have had two superb seasons but have failed with the final trophies because of a lack of depth and no investment of a top match winner. Someone would have come this transfer window... Even Burnley got one. So frustrating that Levy and Co wait so long. Poch and our top players will be gone if we struggle to mid table this year. Dele is one who will go with Rose and Toby .... Very sad to start our new ground with a fragmented team. What is happening to Sky money and transfer funds? We do not want another Sissoko on 31/08/17!
wentworth
28/08/2017 18:43:00
0
BelgianSpur, So what conclusion have you reached? Solanke, Robertson, Klavan, Kariu are current squad players for Liverpool, so are Janssen, Sissoko and N'Koudou for us.. we've finished above Liverpool for all of those 3 years plus several years prior to that, with multiple managers, despite spending less on transfers and wages. That doesn't sound like a recruitment success rate to be proud of. Of the players you mentioned, honestly, I think we'd all agree, only Mane is a signing to be envious of and we tried to sign him but Liverpools higher wages likely swayed him. I don't think you need to do extensive research on our rivals, you just need to compare the standard of players and the wages/transfer fees. We are competing despite a much inferior budget, which we wouldn't be able to do with bad transfer recruitment's. It would be the equivalent of West Ham being a regular top 4 club, with a squad of top players, but making the claim that they don't have good enough recruitment, despite spending significantly less the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool.
Guyver
28/08/2017 18:52:00
0
For the most part, we don't shop in the same places as wealthier clubs. Which is a good thing, as we will always lose that battle long-term. Instead, we look for players wealthier clubs mostly overlook, which means you will sign a few Holtbys or N'jies which will bring down the transfer success rate, but are not a massive financial risk. On the other hand, we have almost unchallenged access to the likes of Eric Dier and Dele. Its the way we've closed the financial gap, without spending. Obviously, if we can spend more, to increase the pool of viable players who can improve us, then we should, but thats a separate issue. We undeniably do well with what we currently do spend.
Guyver
28/08/2017 19:04:00
0
Guyver - the conclusion is that Liverpool have signed 16 players and the large majority of them are still there and have a future at the club, unlike our recent purchases who are already on borrowed time despite only recently joining (with 6 out of 18 already out the door in that same timeframe). You cannot defend that. We buy players and move them on at an alarming rate whereas they took the time to assemble a squad and are reaping the benefits now. Yes Liverpool finished below us but they are in the CL just like we are, and were arguably a better "big game" team than we were last year. They dropped many points to smaller clubs but if they find a bit of consistency, they will be nailed on for top 4, probably ahead of us. And in those 3 years they won the League Cup and went to an EL final. So one could indeed ask who had the better spell. Yes they have more money, but regardless of fees, it seems that they are gambling a lot less on signings. We seem to have a policy of buying and assessing 3 years down the road, hoping for the best. They are buying finished articles who fit their system. You seem to only rate Mane from that list but Firmino and Salah will probably outscore anyone at Spurs not named Alli or Kane this year, and Wijnaldum will probably compare favourably to any of our CM players in that department too. We have done a better job developing players than them, but that is about it.
BelgianSpur
28/08/2017 20:29:00
0
I see reports saying Aurier wants Utd move! Is this why the transfer is taking so long? is he holding out for Utd bid to increase on deadline day? or is it the media making stories up to attract interest to their stories? Well we have three days to grim and bare and then shop shuts for a while, and I really really hope the rules change and shop shuts before the season starts because its stupid being open and players being unsettled.

Hoping for an announcement tomorrow, one on Wednesday and two on Thursday, a suprise package on deadline day. We will see.
It'sME
28/08/2017 21:48:00
0
Belgian, yes most of them are still there, at a higher cost, contributing to what exactly? Thats not an objective way of measuring this. btw I didn't include Salah, because he's been at the club for barely 5 minutes.

"We buy players and move them on at an alarming rate whereas they took the time to assemble a squad and are reaping the benefits now."
What benefits? We're only 3 games into the season and they are showing identical flaws to last season, thrashing Arsenal this weekend, after conceding 3 goals to Watford and drawing the previous week"

"(with 6 out of 18 already out the door in that same timeframe). You cannot defend that.
" Without context, no. But the facts are, as you allude to, our transfer strategy is different, we do not always buy "the finished article", so we'll inevitably purchase a lot more Holtbys and Stamboulis, but also more Dele Alli's and Modrics. The end result for the past several years, is that despite spending significantly less on wages and transfers, we've had a superior squad to Liverpool and regularly finished far higher in the league. Here is the article I referred to earlier. https://www.ft.com/content/5928c186-e6c1-11e6-893c-082c54a7f539
Guyver
28/08/2017 22:06:00
0
https://www.ft.com/content/5928c186-e6c1-11e6-893c-082c54a7f539
Guyver
28/08/2017 22:08:00
1
Not sure why the link doesn't work, but im sure you can locate it if you want.
Guyver
28/08/2017 22:10:00
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Ironically, Liverpools EL final appearance, similar to Man Utd last season, was largely due to league form being so poor, that they were forced to prioritise the EL. The opposite of us.
Guyver
28/08/2017 22:49:00
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Title and article don't seem to me to go together. Are we pessimistic? Sure. We all want better and when we get better we are rarely happy with it. Interesting fact, we have the 6th greatest resources and thus, anything above sixth is a measure of success in the league. Can't really say as we have prioritized cups since Ramos, so the fact we have not succeeded is hard to bemoan. Harry had two glorious opportunities. Could not be bothered with the trinket cups. For transfers it is a bit of the same. I'd say the names we are getting compared to Stoke are way better, but then, Spurs, despite less resources, compare ourselves to Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Arsenal, despite the fact we are not on level resource terms, or even close in some cases. Yet, how many Arsenal players would we take in to our starting XI? How many of our players would all of the other top 6 teams take? I presume the answers are obvious. We all want to win. Poch does, the players do, the fans do and, I fully suspect Levy does.

We do tend to overreact to things though. Knives out for Trippier. Team game. I always have issues with blaming one for the loss of all. I would have started the game with three at the back. Most certainly with 10 minutes left and a one goal lead, I'd have definitely gone with three at the back. Just leading up to the goal, Kane had the ball, time and space. Rather than take it in to the corner to waste time (we were 90 seconds in to extra time), he tries an unlikely pass to Winks which misses. Winks does not pursue the ball, nor does he pressure the keeper (fresh legs as he was a sub). Keeper kicks the ball 40 yards. Dembele pushed off the ball like he is a roll of toilet paper. Uncontested header won. No pressure in the middle. Ball fed out to the left. No pressure. Dembele and Sissoko (again, fresh legs) jogging back, neither taking away the lane where the ball would eventually be fed. No players to the right or the left. The only direction a ball could go was diagonally from our left to right. Vertonghen stepped up, but then decided to fall back. Alderweirald, who was in a defensive line with three other backs, all of a sudden dropped off leaving room for Wood to run in to. Lloris did not move. Alderweirald did not get there. Tripper had turned which took him momentarily out of his run. And he was never going to get back. Frankly, watching it first time, I though Alderweirald had him. It was one on one. Wood was fresh. Alderweirald tired. That was the difference. Say what you want about Janssen, but had it been him and not Winks, he closes down the keeper stopping a ball going directly up the gut. IMO, lots of mistakes there. I can fault everyone from the coach down to most of the players on the pitch. Poor game management. Davies is correct. Time for all Spurs players and staff to start developing a little bit more street smarts and heart.

peterballb
29/08/2017 03:17:00
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peterballb- their goal was a team mistake I agree with that, but I still think Trippier was caught a few times out of position and doesn't, can't bust a gut to get back, this is where we miss Walkers pace imo. I also think he isn't positive enough for my liking, so many times he could have passed, one two and moved forward starting an attack, taking defenders out but he doesn't he keeps passing the ball sideways, small passeses and doessn't move offensively, so the oppositions back line are not threatened. My personal opinion the way we play I think we need pace on at least one of the FB or may be we need to play three at the back to give Trippier more cover and confidence to move forward! I thought we needed to change things towards the end of the game as they were getting closer, but then again we were walking in the first half, no uregency, we missed chances, we were naive there was many things that need addressing, but have we the players to make those changes and a leader to impliment them when our back is against the wall, when we need to shut shop!
It'sME
29/08/2017 10:01:00
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Guyver - the players are still there and contributing goals, for one. They've picked up 7 points from their first 3 games and dismantled the first top 6 rival they have faced. While I agree that it's too early for definitive conclusions, you have to admire what they are building under Klopp. Last year, they scored 78 goals, but no one individual scored more than 13. 8 different players scored 5 or more. Goals are coming from all over the pitch and they don't rely on one or 2 key performers. We scored 86 goals, but 61 of those goals came from Harry, Son and Alli. Harry gets injured and we lose more than a 3rd of goals scored. Compared to their 8 players with 5 or more goals, we only had 4 players who scored 5 or more. We're finishing higher in the league, but winning no trophies (whereas they are - and prioritising one competition or another is fine, we dropped the LC and the EL in favour of the league) and riding our luck doing so, hoping that Kane and Alli stay fit. They have depth we could only dream of, and interchangeable attacking players. Regarding our recruitment strategy, my point is that while different, we sooner or later have to come to the conclusion that the success rate is poor, and maybe adapt accordingly. We're not going to compete for the Moratas of this world but I don't think that any of their players are/were beyond our means. Levy may refuse to pay the wages but the club's finances (and a quick benchmark with other PL clubs) suggest we could be paying them. That's the point. I can't overlook the Holtbys and Stamboulis of this world because of Alli and Modric. Not when the ratio is what it is. We are creating avoidable unrest and squad turnover, when we should be looking to solidify and build on a promising core. The time for gambles is over when you're 2nd in the league and have a chance to push on for a title. If there was ever a time to buy the finished article it would be now, and no context will change that.
BelgianSpur
29/08/2017 10:10:00
0
I'm beginning to feel pessimistic about the Serge Aurier deal. I fear we'll be gazumped by Utd just like Chelsea did with Willian. I hope we have a plan B ready as we need a pacey, aggressive, attacking right back.
SpuriousLife
29/08/2017 10:10:00
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Wimmer has gone, that imo is a mistake. He wasn't given a fair crack of the whip.. when jan was injured he stepped up beside Toby.
E17YID
29/08/2017 10:58:00
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With 3 days to go in this TW i am very Pessimistic. Spurs seem like a team in transition when up until the Chavs semi final all was looking rosey. Up until that Chavs semi spurs only needed to add 3 quality players at most to be able to win trophies instead the squad is being dismantled.
palmover
29/08/2017 11:07:00
0
I am starting to get pessimistic now because new reports are saying Aurier wants Utd move, Chelsea want barkley and nothing remotely favouring Tottenham signings.

I hope we have plan B if our plan A on transfers are falling through?.

I like Wimmer, but I think its the right move for him. It wasn't so much as him not being good enough it was a matter of Verts being better and playing well and therefore hard to dislodge. Towards the end when he was given minutes he didn't impress too much, he always looked rusty, which was to be expected with the lack of playing time. Some players fair better playing regular and not great at making an impact from the bench. It was time for him to go and get regular footy. If Foryth is coming, it will take a miricale to dislodge our back pairing of verts and Toby, one for the future I think, and he will be given a couple of years or so like Wimmer to see if he can compete, he has age on his side and Verts and Toby are not getting any younger, whereas Wimmer is at the age now where he needs to play regular. Good signing for Stoke, good luck Wimmer
It'sME
29/08/2017 12:09:00
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Well done Daniel another 18M in the kitty, won't get us a single point in the PL but good for his bonus fund. If we get bad news re Aurier as seems possible what are we left with, an expensive addition to our defensive options, and another potential boy wonder defender, still no AMF option or alternative striker. 58 hrs of 3 months available still left. Wait for excuse speech from MP re failure to get in what we wanted, it is of course an annual event.
Frank
29/08/2017 12:15:00
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Its hard not to be pessimistic right now. 4 points out of 9 and a with just over 2 days left of the TW we have signed a CB to replace a CB and have brought in a third choice GK. Our bench is arguably the worst in the top 7-8 teams in the league yet we continue this fallacy that we don't really need to strengthen. I think its shows just how little faith the manager has in Jansen when he refuses to bring him on even when we need to score. We have once again gone from a situation where 3-4 decent signings could push us to real title contenders to worrying about even qualifying for CL next season

Renato Sanchez, Draxler, Mahrez, all attacking players who are available for the right price. We are crying out for talent but just wont pay for it. Whilst players like Trippier, Winks, Nkoudou are great to see they aren't going to win us titles and trophy's.
hudderspur
29/08/2017 12:42:00
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Frank-I must admit I am concerned about the Aurier situation. I was slightly unsure about him due to his behaviour, but from a footballing persepctive was getting excited and was coming to terms that may be for the first time, right or wrong, I am not here to judge that, Spurs were going to break the mould and bring in a bit of a naughty boy, outside football naughty boy, and I was thinking everyone deserves the opportunity to put right their wrongs, improve as a person and we are the right club to give Aurier that opportunity, so I was getting excited about him coming, but it's looking like Utd may have a say in that! but then again, is this just journalism sensationalism! I wonder whether he has already signed and it's a done deal as long as he gets clearence, I surely hope so.

I also wonder about Barkley, if Chelsea will take him. Although I think Barkley and O ought to stay well away from Chelsea, neither of them will get many opportunities at Chelsea, they may get a good pay packet but Chelsea are just trying to stop others buying, I really think they do that, but I could be paranoid of course.

I am really hoping we get Aurier, Barkley, Foryth and another (spurise) will Levy suprise us all? in a good way of course, and if Sissoko stays I am fine with that although I don't rate him, but to be fair, he has behaved well during his horrid time at Spurs and there have been glimpses he is trying to improve and if he keeps working he may turn it around and be useful, help shut games out, and take pressure of players for cups games, so i think if he stays and we do gets four more players we will be good to go - it's all 'if's' though isn't it
It'sME
29/08/2017 12:47:00
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hudderspur-you have a point. I would go for any of them. Some say Barkley and Marezh are not good enough, I disagree. I think both have PL experience, barkley can improve under Poch, create something out of nothing, do a job and be a suprise at times, Marezh, well he may not be great at defending work rate as some, but he surely bring more to the team than GK, Sissoko, and he is a match winner on his day. For 40m I would take him
It'sME
29/08/2017 12:50:00
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What's happened to this site. Two and a half days to go for TW to close and no new articles, hardly anyone on here posting, no ITK (whether true or not, they were interesting debates), there used to be new articles regular, lots of people posting in the hundreds, but its like a cemetary on here :-( I came back to discuss and enjoy, using my precious energy, but not sure it's worth it - so sad that this site has come to this, not disrespecting those who are keeping it going and those participating, but it's nothing like it used to be, in the last six years. COYS, I say Come on You Fans
It'sME
29/08/2017 13:45:00
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It'sME - to be fair, there isn't much to discuss. Nothing is happening. We sold Wimmer but that has been in the works for weeks now. If we had anything to discuss it would be different, but nothing going on at the moment. I still expect Thursday to be a busy day. If Daniel has any sense, he'll know that fans are underwhelmed. I expect a VdV/Lloris type signing.
BelgianSpur
29/08/2017 14:28:00
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Another appalling transfer window as one target after another falls way. Will Levy ever learn - the answer is no. We all new our squad was weak but we have made it even weaker by selling Walker to a rival. Now Wimmer, a perfectly decent back-up has gone. We have no pace in the team, it has already cost us points. We re probably the slowest team in the league. How are we going to cope with our incredibly tough schedule especially in October when we will have to play the same team in every game whilst our rivals are able to roar are without weakening the team. We have made around £100m from transfers since Hanuary and spent 340m. With the massive increase in Sky money and Champions league revenue we could have significantly strengthened the squad. As it is we are scrambling around for last minute deals - s0mething Pulis at West Brom said was something that teams like West Brom had to resort to. We don't have to resort to that tactic but Levy decides to do so. Truly pathetic management of the club. But oh so predictable
DoncasterHotspur
29/08/2017 14:36:00
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No not at all, in poch and levy we trust. Bringing some new faces in before the window slams shut will give me more of a reason to grin. I personally think those arsenal lot down the road are have far more reason to be gloomy. COYS.
SpursOne2
29/08/2017 14:55:00
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Levy is being out Levyed. We have Chelsea getting Oxlade Chamberlain. Liverpool getting Kietta, and possible Lemarr, now City trying for Alexis Sanchez, you don't have to google to identify them. Who will we get. Perhaps wevare heading for another Gregor Raziak, Clint Dempsey or
Frank
29/08/2017 14:57:00
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I bet if Levy's family needs a TV for x-mas he waits 'til the January sales and then watch 'catch up'. Two years' work being thrown down the drain. I seriously wonder how many players will stick around googling for another season. Poch, unless in agreement, may also choose to find a worthy club to manage.
Critical_Spur
29/08/2017 14:58:00
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Didn't finish that post, I wanted to add Frazer Campbell. Levy has made his usual cock up of yet another window. All he is interested in is making a profit never mind the squad/ team, he doesn't give a toss.
Frank
29/08/2017 15:01:00
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Guys, at this stage (ie very late in the window), there really isn't any difference anymore between getting a deal done today or Thursday. We might as well wait and see what Thursday brings. If Levy pulls 3 rabbits from a hat on Thursday, and by chance, we end up with good players, all the better. There is no point in being gloomy now. A few weeks ago yes, when getting deals done early was a real added value for the beginning of the season. That hasn't happened and any early disappointment is pointless now. At this stage, we might as well wait and see. If nothing has happened by Friday, I'll be the first to label the TW a failure. But where we are now (ie already in a poorly managed window), there is still the possibility to salvage something good from the situation.
BelgianSpur
29/08/2017 15:59:00
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nothing to get excited about. Spurs always mess up the TW .Levy should not be anywhere near it. Same thing every year.Totally agree with Frank and Hudderspur.
spurman61
29/08/2017 16:16:00
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It could of course be that we fans, mere supporters, have got transfer windows all wrong, at least Spurs transfer windows. The whole process has nothing whatsoever to do with strengthening the squad, or the team in order to sustain a challenge for honours/ trophies, that is only what they are trying to con us into believing, and I am a bit surprised that MP has joined in with the "fake news" con trick. The whole point of transfer windows to Lewis and Levy is to MAKE A PROFIT. We have sold Walker (£50M) , N'Jie (undisc), Fazio (undisc), Wimmer (18M), still have money from Benteleb move etc. and we have Signed Sanchez (38M), perhaps Foyth (Undisc), neither exactly household names, possibly but increasingly unlikely Aurier (£24M) if he gets a visa and doesn't do a Willian and actually go and sign for a rival as he did. We will make our now customary TW profit as we have for the last umpteen windows. Levy may be a handy lad as an accountant but an extremely poor chairman of a football club, we will never win anything while he holds the reigns, every time we look to have broken through, he cashes in and pours cold water on our prospects. He did it with the HR team that got to the QF of the CL, selling on all the key players and making signings like Saha and Nelson, He is now doing it to MP after 3rd and 2nd place PL finishes. Instead of investment in additional quality in order to push on, or even to hold our own, we effectively go backwards, while all the rest of the top teams are at least giving it a go. Surely Levy realised that the likes of City, Utd, and Liverpool who all had poor seasons and finished behind us last year would come back strong to compete, and that Chelsea who won it would not rest on their laurels but would continue investing, but we have just ignored the challenge. A top 4 finish and CL qualification looks unlikely, a shame as we move into the new stadium next season. We were assured that the stadium investment was independent to, and would not affect, on field investment, but this excuse for a transfer window puts that statement into doubt.
Frank
29/08/2017 17:15:00
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Frank - it doesn't put that statement into doubt, it exposes it for the lie that it is.
DoncasterHotspur
29/08/2017 17:21:00
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fair points Belgian, but im looking at the last 10 years, not just this season, which I believe will be disrupted by us playing home games at Wembley. Regardless of whether you disagree with our transfer methods or not, the simple facts are, thanks partially to our player recruitment's, we have managed to regularly challenge for a top 4 place against teams who spend significantly more than we do. Teams such as West Ham, Stoke and Everton are a lot closer to us financially, than we are to Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City, and yet the likes of West Ham and Everton cannot get near us. theres an obvious reason for that which you and many others do not seem willing to appreciate.
Guyver
29/08/2017 17:24:00
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Frank, Doncaster, 48 hours to go, not over yet! I hear what you're saying, but come Friday we could all be celebrating some great additions to the squad...
Thats Entertainment
29/08/2017 17:50:00
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Look I don't buy into a lot of this negativity, I am frustrated because it's human nature to want to have 'more' even though I am not a fan of it in my own life.

I think a fairer assessment of our TW is to see how we have progressed, at the end of each season. Before Poch we were playing decent football under Harry, but he always goes for older players and then we are left with players that had no resale value and not willing to go elsewhere because they were on to a good thing with us with the wages we were paying them. There had to be a clear out after Harry, and mistakes were made. We had AVB and then Tim and our football was stale under AVB, would it been affective long term, I don't know, but it wasa boring to watch and many fans were not happy. Then under Tim it was slightly 'mad' and it was a matter of time before luck would run out under him, he had to go. I thought letting Harry go was a gamble, but understood, his eye and heart was no longer with us, and he doesn't care about spending the boards money, if you let him he would bleed the club dry. The recruitment after him was poor, both in managers and players to a certain degree.

Selling Bale was heart breaking, but look, every club is a selling club at the right price, Neymar is a prime example, just like Saurez of Liverpool, you can't blame Levy for that. Bale price was good at the time, but it was naive and disaster after that regarding players, so mistakes were made, but Levy reinvested the money, he always spends, ok Enic don't invest but we usually spend and sometimes we get a bargain and sometimes we make huge mistakes, Sissoko one of them at present, but may come good.

Under Poch a different approach is emerging, and it's been hit and miss with some players, that happens and we 'could do better' but we have finished 3rd and 2nd and while it is unfortunate that we have had to go to wembley, it was going to happen at some time, shame it was after two good seasons.


I don't buy into this idea Levy doesn't care about the club, winning but just money, stupid idea, he loves the club and he wants success, but he also knows he has to keep us sustainable and if he is putting money away for a rainy day, that is sensible. It may well be that he is having a nest egg in case something doesn't go to plan re the stadium build, we don't know, but we need to have faith.

This season will be harder because of wembley, but lets not start disbelieving the players we have abilty to compete, they have done it last two seasons, so why not this season. We have lost one player, that is it from our starting 11, not ideal but if we do get players in it may not be so noticeable come end of season! wait and see.

Ok clubs have brought lots of players, spent lots, it may pay off it may not. I think if we get the players like Barkley, Aurier and Foryth then it want have been a bad window, so until the window closes I am frustrated, concerned like many, but try to keep faith and prepared to wait and see, and in the meantime try not to give Levy or anyone at the clob a hard time.
It'sME
29/08/2017 18:17:00
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in Levy we trust not to invest in the team. Dont waste your breath Frank. Same old same old.
spurman61
29/08/2017 18:31:00
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Barkley-injured for next 3mths Aurier- not allowed into country. Yes smoke and mirror time folks
spurman61
29/08/2017 18:48:00
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Spurman61, good, Barkley overrated, Aurier not allowed in, I wonder why???
Thats Entertainment
29/08/2017 19:37:00
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No doubt Aurier and Foyth will be announced on Thursday to give the appearance of activity. Reality is yet another failure to address the weaknesses in our squad. Teams like West Brom, Stoke, Watford, Bournemouth and West Ham are showing more ambition and with far less resources. Pathetic
DoncasterHotspur
29/08/2017 19:53:00
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spot on 100% agree Doncaster Hotspur
spurman61
29/08/2017 19:56:00
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Guyver - your whole point is that we have managed to compete thanks to our recruitment. My point is that we have managed to compete thanks to player devzeopment and good coaching, despite our poor recruitment. Just imagine the heights we could be hitting if we actually were better at identifying, attracting and rewarding talent. Interesting you bring up Everton. They have being handcuffed for many years financially but ever since the new owner has come in, they have changed their approach to recruitment. I will be monitoring their progress closely. We in theory have an owner/chairman who could be sanctioning the deals Everton have. I have made no secret of my admiration of both Keane and Siggy, who would have both improved us. Instead we have taken an expensive gamble on Sanchez, and ignored the need for attacking talent so far.
BelgianSpur
29/08/2017 21:35:00
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I remember watching Sky Sports on deadline day during AVB's reign, when at 8 or 9 pm we suddenly tabled a bid of £22M for Moutinho. It was of course doomed due to lack of time, I wonder if we will pull a similar cynical stunt this year to give the illusion of trying to do a deal to strengthen the squad. By the way whether you like him or lump him Ross Berkeley won't be coming, he is headed for Chelsea, they have bid while Levy tosses it off as usual. Who will be this window's Sissoko, or Rasiak or Clint Dempsey, this years BIGOF bargain. I can envisage the Red Top frenzy on Friday and Saturday taking the mickey out of our pathetic TW efforts, as they do every summer. Levy won't bother, he has made his profit, his bonus is safe.
Frank
29/08/2017 22:30:00
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BelgianSpur, that doesn't make sense. I accept coaching and developing plays a part, but that can only take you so far. Without good player recruitment, you will fall down the table. This is why I mention the last 10 years and multiple top 4 and top 5 finishes, under several different managers and coaching teams. Some that have now left and not achieved much. At the moment, we have a team that is as valuable as Chelseas, whilst spending nowhere near as much. We did not develop vertonghen, Toby, Wanyama, Dele, Eriksen ect. We've developed some, like Walker (now gone of course) and Rose, but we bought that potential THEN developed it. You cannot coach and develop anyone.

These are facts https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-assembled-mauricio-pochettinos-squad-for-452m-less-than-current-market-value-a3447646.html
Guyver
29/08/2017 23:44:00
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As much as I rate Pochettinos coaching ability, he isn't a magician. believe it or not, we actually have some really good players. Hopefully we make the necessary signings in the next few days.
Guyver
30/08/2017 00:08:00
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It'sME, every player on the pitch was out of position numerous times. No, Trippier is not as fast as Walker who was always out of position and had at least one, wtf moment, per game. Drippier's crosses are far better and the trough ball to Erikssen was brilliant. He doesn't need me to defend him. At the end of last season, he was far more positive than Walker. Pochettino will make the calls. If Aurier comes in and is better, that's all good. If Sanchez is better, same applies. Tripper is coming off of an injury. Had we played three across the back and freed up Trippier and Davies to push more forward, perhaps there would have been more of a positive level of attack, but we didn't. No point scapegoatting. Better to be behindd the lads. I have faith in Trippier and believe his crosses and passes will lead to far more assists than Walker ever would do. But then we'd need players to score. Tons of chances to kill that game off. Just not the necessary levels of desperation and intensity. Leader is what we need. Who is it going to be?
peterballb
30/08/2017 01:20:00
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Pochettino needs to learn to change formations and game plans within a game. To keep doing what is not working makes no sense. He needs to start having a Plan B. C and D for the team he is playing. We also need the MF'ers to be more direct. Only Alli and Son try to dribble in to the penalty area. We don't force the game enough. Son, from my perspective, is the backup striker, and is the game changer off the bench. WE need someone else to be in the starting XI who can dribble, use pace and cross. Too deliberate. This allows defences to continually regain their shape. Our players are plenty talented enough to do that. Dembele will glide by 5 players in MF, but the second he gets close to the box he runs out of ideas. This was the brilliance of Modric. He'd do the same but would then dish the ball off to the player who had a lane and the defence would be stretched. Sissoko did it once, then was a spectator. I so hope he goes. He is just so lost out there and it's not a lack of playing time. He sucked for Newcastle. He has sucked for us. My confidence goes every time he steps on the pitch. I think we need to get Winks in there more. His talent potential is huge. No Barkley until December (I assume we'll look in January if he is still there) so it needs to come from within.
peterballb
30/08/2017 01:31:00
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We have one of the best, if not the best, starting XI's in the league. No, Levy does not deliver. Such nonsense. Kept us from relegation after Harry - a feat yet to be achieved by any other PL team who went down that road. Lots of deals I'd have loved to have seen done, but if transfer fees are too high, wages too high, or players want to start over other players, what can Levy do? Wimmer didn't leave because he didn't want to be part of Spurs, he left to play, which, absent injuries, he was not going to do over Alderweirald or Vertonghen. It's why Keane and Maguire were never going to come. Levy did the best he could with what he had. Looks like Foyth is coming. Sanchez is in. Aurier, assuming Homeland clears him, will be in. We are covered at the back. CCV has gone out on loan to either prove he has got it, or he doesn't. Before him there was Yedlin. Onomah, it seems is in the same boat. But when Wimmer indicated he wanted to play, and was going to be surplus, Levy did what he is paid to do. He was sold for a 10M-13M GBP profit. Sanchez was yet another record breaking transfer (assuming performance bonuses). Articles talking about how we missed out on Balde (he wanted nothing to do with the PL), Diop (Lyon paid more than our valuation), Pereira (deemed by Pochettino to be too highly valued) etc are all just idle speculation. Were we interested? Probably, up to a certain price. Were they interested in coming? Who knows. Some were but not if they weren't going to start (see Morata). Everyone knows how the market works and how Levy manages the payroll, budget etc. What we never know is what is going on with agents etc behind the scene. Sanchez, by all accounts was never going to be done before we did it. (Absent paying ridiculous sums). Aurier was not going until Neymar was done. Same arguments every year. Exactly which player was it Levy was supposed to have signed? Lamar, by reports today, is now looking like going for 80M Euros plus Origi or similar - so between 90 and 100M Euros. For Lemar??????? The market is nuts. It is unsustainable. The wages some are getting are also insane, but that is for their clubs to deal with. Go to any Arsenal site and read through the posts. Not a lot of happiness there. Can't shift out some because of wages and others don't want to go (happy to take the funds and sit). Progress has been consistent and it shows in table position, European qualification and now CL. Players will be brought in at the last second, Levy being Levy. Hopefully a la VDV and not a la Sissoko. If it were to be just Sanchez, Foyth and Aurier, it's already pretty good. If a Meyer or Origi, or Zaha or a Sessegnon come in, it will be bordering brilliant. If the surprise is Cavani, Spectacular. I left out Barkley as he is crocked until November or December, so if he is added, it will be a great addition for the future. Approximately 100M has come in from transfers. Assuming Foyth and Aurier are coming at the rates mooted, we have spent about 80M. Hardly lining pockets given that a bunch of contracts need to be improved as well. Not as bad as some would have us believe.
peterballb
30/08/2017 04:33:00
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Frank, we have a stadium to pay for, look younger supporters like me never see the glory days of the title wins etc... best I see was when I was small and we won two Fa cups and the uefa in 84 I was 9 then. Why do we have to not make a transfer profit to buy players? ... when you accept this maybe you can move on form worrying about it.., this next 2 seasons will be very tough what with Wembley and the new lane l will be happy if we are able to consolidate the top 4 ... then we can move forward. I'm please levy is our chairman.
E17YID
30/08/2017 05:01:00
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I agree entirely re buying players, but if we spend 90m on the right players but get 110m ie a profit of 20m what's the issue?
E17YID
30/08/2017 05:03:00
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Aurier issue was supposed to be decided on tuesday...quiet....everyone we were said to be signing are going elsewhere.....and so we wait....but who gives us the right to think we can just go getting players from clubs on the final day of a three month window without them having time to replace....its a levy system mostly due to fail as he knows to give us a mirage in the desert....
62rovinella
30/08/2017 06:16:00
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I know there are several positions on Levy's transfer policy but to me it is indefensible. If we accept Levy's word that the new stadium would not impact on our transfer activity then how can this window be defended. We are a Champions League club with a massive increase in turnover in the last year (sky money,champions League money etc) and yet we see teams like Watford, Bournemouth, West Brom and West Ham showing more ambition than us. Everyone knew that our squad is not strong enough to compete in the premier league and champions league, yet in incomings are exceeded by the outgoings. The chronic lack of pace has not been addressed - in fact it has been weakened by laughably selling one of only two players with pace in the team to our rivals - and without even having a replacement. I would suggest that it is amateurish by Levy except for the fact that his policy is a deliberate policy to avoid spending big money. Announcing Aurier and Foyth on the last day of the window will not fool the fans into believing there is ambition at the club. Barkley looks lost already - I said at least a month ago that if we delayed he would go to Chelsea and that is what looks like happening. No doubt there will be countless rumours of bids going in in the next 48 hours but we all know nothing will come of them and we will end up with another Sissoko. Levy is happy though - he has sold 40,000'season tickets and there will be another transfer window profit. Pathetic and shameful.
DoncasterHotspur
30/08/2017 07:33:00
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We are missing out on a last chance for a productive TW in the foreseeable future, as for the next 10 years (if they are still around) Lewis/Levy will be pleading austerity while we "pay down the stadium". Our "never spend a shilling where a farthing will do" transfer strategy will only get worse, as we gradually get left behind. But don't worry about it, because we will be selling a lot more match day tickets, and making a lot more money, so as to keep Mr Lewis in the manner to which he has become accustomed, and maintain Daniel's very healthy salary and annual bonus levels, everything will be going according to plan. Where we are in the PL will be immaterial.
Frank
30/08/2017 08:11:00
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Excellent post Doncaster agree with every word you say. As I have said before I will aiways support Spurs, but never this ownership regime, under them we will win nothing.
Frank
30/08/2017 08:35:00
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peterballb If you think trippier is a better player than walker fair enough, however, in my opinion Walker is a far better player than trippier saying the only thing walker has is speed is wrong Walker is stronger, more skillful, more aggressive and tougher than Trippier. Walkers pace, strength and skill allowed him to run the right hand side freeing up space for CE to roam. Trippiers great crosses have lead to zero goals this season and he has put in a fair few crap ones. Players like Ronaldo, Mane, and Martial will tear Trippier to shreds.
palmover
30/08/2017 08:52:00
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Guyver - if you don't think we as a club developed Alli, I don't know what to say. We bought him as a 17 year old from League One and turned him into one of the better AM's in the PL in 3 years. We didn't buy the finished article. He was nowhere near as good as he is now, and nowhere near the players we compare him to now. Of our starting 11, we bought Lloris, Toby, Mousa, Jan and Victor as finished articles. The rest has been bought at a very young age (22 or younger - so U23 level in most clubs) and bred to a large extent. That's valid for Rose, Walker, Dier, Alli, Kane, Eriksen, Lamela and many more. In that same time our rivals were buying finished articles (ie Chelsea buying the Hazards of this world, City the De Bruynes or Silvas,...). We took gambles on young players and a minority of the worked out.
BelgianSpur
30/08/2017 09:52:00
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Peter - I fail to grasp the logic. Keane or Maguire would not join us because they would fear not playing, but Sanchez would despite starring for a team that went to the EL final? Why would Sanchez be any less ambitious? That makes no sense to me. There is no reason to believe that Keane/Maguire would not join our club, especially Maguire coming from a relegated club.
BelgianSpur
30/08/2017 09:55:00
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Peterballb, re Trippier, I rated him highly and since late last season when he got some game time, those trade mark crosses were there for all to see and even Kane benefited form them. However, I was at the game v Burnley and I can't recall a single cross from him and found him doing a Walkeresque cutting inside. But the WHOLE team was all over the shop, the lethargic start, sideways/backwards and many players out of sync. Kane trying too hard to break his duck, Poch failing to make tactical changes and what was another substitution in injury time all about?

Everything about my £250 round trip (for 2) was value for money except the game. I was seething, on the verge of taking it up with the trading standards.

Absolutely nowt to do with Wembley and the pitch size. You'd thought with a wider pitch Lloris would be able to keep his clearances IN. Nope, at least two went over the player on the left hand side for a throw in.
Critical_Spur
30/08/2017 10:16:00
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BelgianSpur, if you are a top 4 EPL club, and you buy a player who proves to be an important 1st team player in his very 1st season, regardless of his age, you had little to do with the majority of his development. But this is all meaningless. We both bought players and we developed players, but we have a team that rivals Chelseas and Man Utd's in value, despite spending a lot less. If it was as simple as just "development" we wouldn't need to buy anyone, we'd just develop our own academy players. You have to give credit to the player recruitment. Im not sure why you are so reluctant to accept what is so evidently and objectively true.
Guyver
30/08/2017 16:16:00
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Guyver- if you remember, we bought Alli and the 1st thing we did for his development was loan him back to MK Dons, as to not throw him in the deep end too soon. Does that not count as a decision for his development? Was he a starter on day one, or progressively brought into the team? Finished articles arrive to be starters on day one, which was never the plan for Alli. I also don't consider that we are competing with our rivals when objectively, we can only challenge on one front at a time, while our rivals are competing on many. It's only looking at part of the story, the part which is more convenient for us. It goes back to the discussion about whether we or Man U had a better season last year. Depending on one's perspective, our squad is either a lot better or a lot worse. We have had certain holes in our squad forever, and we have failed to address them over many years. For example, we have tried and failed to buy proper strikers so often, it's not even funny. We eventually were able to develop one, whether that is skill or luck is up for debate (but I will be optimistic and say it was skill). How this is not evident and objectively true to you is baffling to me. Is proper recruitment about buying good players as a general rule, regardless of where they fit in, or is it about addressing specific needs in a squad? If your point of view is the former, I can see your point to a certain extent (even though I still feel there are a lot of mistakes). If you look at it as the latter (my expectation from a good recruitment strategy), we are shambolic. We just bought 2 CB's who, even if they turn out to be good players, fail to address any pressing need. What's the point?
BelgianSpur
30/08/2017 17:19:00
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BS, im not saying Dele was the finished article when he officially arrived, im saying most of the development was already done. He played 33 league games in his 1st season with us and scored 10 goals for one of the best teams in the world. He proved to be one of the better players in the EPL.

Also we bought Dele late in January 2015 and loaned him back for 4 months. MK Dons wouldn't have had time for a replacement and it was MK Dons who demanded we loan him back for the rest of the season. So it had nothing to do with a development choice on our part. So no that does not count. Now you're not telling me he went from league one quality to top 4 EPL quality in the space of a few weeks of joining us. That is simply ridiculous.

Our rivals are not competing in multiple comps, in recent times hey have struggled in the league (their priority competition) and have used cups as a last resort and put out 2nd string sides in the league as Man utd did last season against us. Chelsea didn't have Europe, neither Liverpool last season. How are they competing on multiple fronts? when Liverpool made the EL final, they had already given up on the league ect ect.

"Is proper recruitment about buying good players as a general rule, regardless of where they fit in, or is it about addressing specific needs in a squad?" This is a false dilema as quite clearly, it is about both. The problem is, you focus on our striker problems, but ignore Man City and Liverpools long term defensive issue, or Arsenals midfield problems. Comparatively speaking, now matter what angle you try to use, or what issue you have with player recruitment, the end result is that we have a team that matches, or in some cases, exceed, our rivals, despite spending far less. We've managed to close the gap on them, in ways clubs below us and closer to us financially, have been unable to do to us (Leicester aside).
Guyver
30/08/2017 17:51:00
0
When asked if he could keep Alli at MK Dons, (manager) Robinson told Sky Sports’ ‘Goals on Sunday’: “No, probably not. The big stumbling block in a transfer fee will be that we will want him back immediately on loan. http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2015/01/25/8287512/alli-could-hold-his-own-in-the-premier-league-says-mk-dons

Not sure where you got the idea that we sent Dele Alli back on loan for development purposes. It's well known, MrP prefers to keep youngsters at the club, rather than loaning them out, although he seems to have done a 180 turn on that this season.
Guyver
30/08/2017 18:08:00
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