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Everythings Rosey.

Everythings Rosey.



The criticism that stirred up everyone, has been put aside.

Danny has spoken of the state of his relationship with Poch and according to him when speaking to Yahoo sports https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/tottenhams-danny-rose-insists-mauricio-pochettino-forgiven-outburst-223047705.html it is 'great".

Many fans will be comforted by these words in the hope that he isn`t still scheming for a move.

I remain unconvinced. The prospect of doubling his earnings remains hanging in the air, as does the now Walker inspired motivation of returning 'up norf`. Agents both for the Northern giants and even in Europe tell me that they've smelt blood and won't be put off by these latest comments, as far as they appear to be concerned, all it might do is delay the inevitable, not prevent it.

His outburst had (as all good outbursts do) a hint of a deep-seated issue that is gnawing away at him, and that almost certainly isn`t the issue of having to google new players.

For a good few seasons there have been a small but hardcore and persistent few who`ve insisted on giving him stick at every opportunity both on social media and at the matches, almost all of it unfairly with little justification.

After his breakthrough under Harry when he was converted to a left Back there were many who insisted that he wasn`t good enough, many wrote him off. Short sighted, unable to assess a blossoming talent, I`d argued with just about everyone and anyone that he had everything to become one of the very best in the Premier League, he just need a little time and patience as he really got to grips with learning the art of defence, as he now has.

I can well recall on his return from his last injury where he looked unfit and overweight and struggling for form when so many decided that he was not putting the effort in, and that`s when he attracted the ire of some 'fans` you could hear them giving him stick up and down the touchline and even booing him. Say what you like after the game, but in my book, undermining a player whilst he has the shirt on and easily within hearing distance has never made any sense to me.

I think that sort of 'support` has obviously hit him and even hurt him. Many think he shouldn`t have said anything and just accepted it and 'manned up`. Personally, I`m glad he got off his chest.
Danny perhaps surprisingly made his come back (after nearly a year out with a serious knee injury) against Real Madrid has now spoken up saying there is no problem with Poch;

'For my part, it is forgotten,' said Rose. 'I think it is forgotten on the club's part as well"

He added;

'There is no point dwelling in the past if we want to take the club forward and go that one stage further and win the league and go as far as possible in the Champions League."

He also made it clear what sort of relationship he`s had with Poch and how it will continue;

'Me and the gaffer are fine, we speak most days. The last three years, the lads will tell you I am the one in his office the most, speaking to him and going through videos and sharing text messages, even going round his house. Me and the manager are fine."

Perhaps the strength of the relationship can be seen in what he went on to Praise Poch`s handling of him;

"He has been great at integrating me back into the team and getting me some minutes.

I thought him putting me on against Real Madrid, even though it was only for 10 minutes, was a class act on his part, making me feel part of it again, even though he didn't need to bring me on. As far as I'm concerned me and the gaffer are great and as long as we've both got the same goals, which is to win a trophy for Tottenham, then there's nothing to worry about.'

I`m glad he`s cleared the air and in contrast to some of the unwarranted stick he has taken from some of our fans, it seems to me that at the Real Madrid and on Sunday against Crystal Palace his outburst has been forgotten and forgiven, perhaps the realisation has been driven home if we are to progress we need high quality competition for places and that means holding onto our best, so as well as Levy and the club getting the rewards right, we the fans have a role to play as well, and maybe it`s about time we stepped up and showed we can do our part too?



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:Spursex
Date:Tuesday November 7 2017
Time: 9:13AM

Comments

1
If a player wants to leave then eventually he will, the club needs to make sure they are prepared. From Rose's point of view though the injury has done a lot of damage, he needs to be playing if he wants to go to the world cup. So expect him to keep his mouth shut for the rest of this season. After that ? who knows.
jod
07/11/2017 09:25:00
0
I am glad Danny said the things he said I think many if they were honest agreed also! It shows that he cares about Spurs in that he wants spurs to sign quality players! Yes he should have kept his mouth shut but someone needed to say it and he did and that’s why I think it has been able to be brushed aside!
Ahren Perry
07/11/2017 09:36:00
0
Ahren, given his relationship with Poch, Rose better than anyone should and probably did know that his words for a one-on-one with his manager. Discussions like this are done behind closed doors. To this extent his outburst was ill-concieved; his moan about his worth/money could just as easily have been a pointed reference to how his agent/advisor (a relative) has let him down and sold him short in his latest new contract round - that he said, he was 'delighted' with. As for the rest, it was a direct and implied criticism of a man who he says he has a great relationship with; ans so to do that so publically strongly suggests this was all about preparing the battlefield that will come when his tapping up becomes clearer and the macinations of a a move truely begin. I love Danny as a player, I've supported and watched him from his early days after joining from Leeds, but in my book he's achieved nothing with his rush to the press and has displayed a real lack of class and worse still has shown that his advisors simply advised him very very badly (as it was they who at the end of the day set the interview up and knew what he'd be saying). He's 27, he wants the same as Walker - a massive payday for probably his last big contract and I'm pretty certain that's the potential deal that's been talked about by the people with the power to do this. ManU are still desperate for a top-class left back, so I don't see them giving up on him anytime soon. Come the end of the season, he's another £50 mill sale.
spursex
07/11/2017 09:52:00
0
spursex - was his rant aimed at MP or Levy? I'm pretty sure MP and Rose would agree on the need to bring in quality players. Ultimately Rose and MP want the same thing, and MP isn't the one imposing a wage cap at the club. MP could have very easily patched things up with Rose on that basis. Was the rant ill-advised? Probably, in the format. Now, content-wise? I'm not so sure. What he said needed to be said, at some point, in some way. I don't think he was/is the only player to think that. I agree with jod that Rose probably needs to buckle down if he wants to play in Russia. But if the club have any sense, they will also realise that replacing Rose will be hard (harder than Walker, and they have failed to do that appropriately already). Can a compromise not be found?
BelgianSpur
07/11/2017 10:07:00
1
Whatever the future holds for Rose will depend on him alone. If he decides to stay, good. If he decides to leave, we'll just move on. We've managed quite well without him so it's not something that worries me much.
Geofspurs
07/11/2017 10:14:00
1
BelgianSpur - Given the way Trippier is playing losing Walker was not the disaster it might have been at one stage. I love the way that even though Poch keeps improving one player after another you assume he can't do the same with Aurier and with the players coming through the youth set up you assume Wright-Phillips won't make the grade. If either of those things happens we will in fact have replaced Walker.
jod
07/11/2017 10:23:00
1
I'm with jod on this. I just have the feeling that MP will continue to get things right for the team, both short term and long term. Of course he is still human, and so is bound to make mistakes ... which will allow some supporters to enjoy and be quick to jump on and magnify out of all proportion.
Geofspurs
07/11/2017 10:29:00
2
WE did not miss him while he collected £65000 a week for the last 9 months while not playing. He maybe has expensive hobbies!. I hope he appreciates that Pochettino "made him" when many of our usual negative critics (not supporters) said "get rid, not good enough or rubbish etc." He is a good player who we should try to accommodate and keep but for any number of reasons a player might mistakenly think the grass is greener somewhere else.
camper
07/11/2017 10:45:00
0
jod - If you want to believe that Trippier is matching Walker's contribution overall, go ahead. I see things differently. As you correctly say, "if" we develop Aurier or Walker-Peters (I'm assuming that's who you meant and not Wright-Phillips), we will have replaced Walker. That statement implies 2 things: 1) we have not replaced Walker immediately, which means we got weaker in the short term (when there probably were better options in the market), and 2) there is still an element of uncertainty as to whether Trippier, Aurier or KWP will ever be the player Walker is/was. We sold Walker for 45 million, which should have been more than enough to sign an adequate replacement. Instead we went for a cut-price deal on an out of favour PSG player with many question marks. The sheer fact that we signed Aurier means that MP couldn't have been 100% convinced that Trippier was ever going to be the club's long term solution at RB - so he hedged his bets. You also point to MP's apparently automatic ability to improve players. With all the talent in the world, and not to take anything away from MP's skill, he can't "work magic" on any player and there is a track record of players (Mason, Bentaleb, NJie, NKoudou, Janssen, Sissoko, Stambouli) who have failed to make the grade despite MP's guidance. Just looking at numbers, the odds of KWP failing are far greater than of him succeeding, unfortunately. It's why the richer clubs buy finished articles for large fees. It takes the uncertainty away, most of the time.
BelgianSpur
07/11/2017 11:11:00
0
Belgian, I think in part especially the need to google was aimed at Poch, money side targeting Levy/club. I think the day he gave the original interview, he got out of the wrong side of the bed, got put on the spot with the questioning and he couldn't help himself venting his frustrations all out. I don't buy the family and up norf thing as it's not as if we are talking travelling half way round the world to see your family. I've lived in Manchester for the past 30 odd years and still find time and can afford to visit my parents in London. My career and aspirations dictate this and for someone like Rose already earning more in a week than I do in a year, that is a feeble excuse. I can not see him being around beyond end of this season. All lovey dovey.... yeah right!
Critical_Spur
07/11/2017 11:13:00
0
The gaffer and Adebayor used to speak with each other down the corridors too!
Critical_Spur
07/11/2017 11:17:00
7
Belgianspur, Often (but not always) I accuse fans of being a touch niave; the sort of issues that Danny raised really are done behind closed doors at every club every day of the week, often but not always with their agent is present. I should say I'm not speculating for almost 10 years I held a significant stake in a sports agent and saw at first hand how these things are dealt with be it resolved or even (normally when it suits one of the parties) escalated. I am confident that Rose and his advisors were/are motivated by a positive financial outcome - for themselves. Forcing a club to consider a sale when you have only just signed a new contract and were brimming with 'wanting to stay for life' (something he didn't have to say, and no one forced him to say it) to me shows that his advisor(s) are preparing the way so as to negate the need to give up any loyalty / sale bonus. As for the 'wage cap' imposed on the club, this belief is a misnomer, it's entirely inaccurate - if we win the PL and the CL, players will earn not far double from what they would if we didn't finish in the TOP 4 or didn't qualify for the Champions league; so let's be clear, we have a wage structure, not a wages cap. The difference between the two is significant, potential earnings for players put us right up there with the Top 5 in Europe, actual historical earnings put us in the top 5/6 of the Premier league - so we crave quality and top quality performances; and we're prepared to pay for it. What we clearly don't do and never have is pay wages that are unsustainable because a sugar daddy was/is prepared to spend vast sums on capital purchases that then can't have their new players wages supported because the financial struture and revenues of the club couldn't support it. I'd urge all supporters to by all means be critical that an investor in ENIC didn't put a billion in, but he's an investor in ENIC, not a sugar daddy and that's always been my understanding of the relationship. Just look back at all the clubs that have been through the cycle of spending more than they can sustain and how long it was before their new sugar daddy couldn't sustain it anymore and either walked away, were forced out and the decade or more it's taken them to recover - and some still haven't. Danny didn't speak out for any ulterior motive, it's my absolute form belief it was inspired by a tapping and a cold assessment of what people would get out of a deal if Spurs become a willing seller....
spursex
07/11/2017 11:26:00
0
Good post, spursex.
Geofspurs
07/11/2017 11:59:00
1
Heard him talking on sport talk and he makes me nervous. His words were measured and I am not convinced he will be with us net season. I think Poch would love him to stay but he has made his feelings heard, he wants more money and trophies so I don't see that as changing. He may have been going through a difficult time but for me I still say he was out of order in the way he went crawling to the media and I am suprised he is allowed to do interviews again.

He has a issue with fans, I do understand and it taught me a lot, it must hirt when fans give you stick when your not playing well, and I would never do it at a match so they can hear me, but I have done it on here and I want to stop that, it doesn't serve the players or our club. However, may be its time he forgave the fans like the fans have forgave him. can he not see we humans make mistakes, he made a big one, and the fans have made mistakes getting on his back.

My mind wants him to stay for the team because he is one of the best, but my heart says may be it's time to let him go if he really wants out. Problem is we don't know what he really feels now, has he seen things more clearly and can he see Poch made his as good as he is and he is part of a great bunch of lads, or does he still see and feel, he wants to go to a bigger club where he believes he will win things and get paid a lot more money? I feel for Poch, who seems to have invested a lot in him and these players and he wants to go when we are so close, just like Walker.

It's a ruthless environment to work in and not one I like really, very little loyalty and lots of money turning players heads.

My gut feeling is he wants to go, his interviews over the last day are not saying anything to convince me he wants to stay, as I said, they are carefully measured and while he says everything is fine with Poch and the club, I still think he wants out and will want to go next summer. I think Poch and Levy will have thought this through and would do what they have to do to get the best out of him for the rest of the season and have time to plan without him next season, find a replacement, and I think poch is forgiving but unless he has actually said to Poch and Levy, I want to stay an fight and win things with us then I expect him to go next summer.

My only concern is letting him go to Utd or City or Chelsea is going to be very hard to swollow. It basically strengthens our rivals as it has City with Walker and it shows players they can push for a move to our rivals and that is not good long term. I thought we had stopped sttengthening our rivals after Berby and now letting Walker go to City and if we let Rose go to City or Utd it feels like we are going backwards.

If he goes prefer him to go abroad, but doubt he will want that, bet he will want to go up north, but we will see. Until he says he wants to stay I think he will leave, and how on earth he is allowed to do interviews so soon after getting back is beyond me, I would have thought he would have been banned form such intervoews.
It'sME
07/11/2017 20:00:00
1
Oh and the outburst was simple really. Walker got wind that City were interested, he knew what he would get paid, once he knew that his head was turned. He reacted, went into the office and said he wanted to leave. There was no thought of anyone else, those who helped him become who he is now, the contract he had signed, noone other than himself. Best way to get a move if you have signed a contract is do something to bug the manager, chairman, so he did. he could have waited until end of season, but that would not have worked, he had to do something to cause 'effect' so the club/manager would act, so he went into the office a few weeks before end of seasonw ehn we were going for the title. That really bugged Poch and Levy, as Poch said 'disrespectful' Walker had achieved what he and his agent wanted to achieve, the wheels were in motion.

Rose saw walker going to a club to double his wage and a club that were serious about buying the title and trophies, he got jealous, he wanted the same opportunity, he didn't want to wait until the project blossomed, he wanted what Walker has, and this is why I think selling Walker has had a lot more damaged than people think, but anyway, Rose saw what Walker achieved and wanted the same, and he to got wind he could have it, with utd, so how do you get a move when you have just signed a contract, bug the manager/chairman, so he did. He knew what he was doing, there was no thought of anyone else but himself, he had forgotten, like Walker who had got them to where they were and he has now set the wheels in motion.

If you look at Modric situation, he wanted out, he went and talked about it and didn't kick up a fuss, bug anyone, do anything disrespectful, and he was made to stay another year and wasn't sold to chelsea. That is the difference, Walker and Rose knew it would be hard to get a move after signing contracts unless they did something to set the wheels in motion and they both did that.

What is interesting is both Rose and Walker could have gone nowhere if we had sold them when they were clearly very poor, but we stuck by them and under Poch they became the best fb in the PL and they seem to have forgotten that, so for me I feel for Poch.

As for replacements, hard to replace. Aurier for me hasn't shown anything like what I thought he would, but it's early days. Poch may well make our current fb's the best in the Pl again, but it will take time and that is why we are weaker imo. We managed without rose when injured, but what if he was fir, would we have won a trophy! I don't see Trippier or Davies good enough to be first choice for every game, we need pace on the wings but on their day they are very good. KWP seems to have been left out and Poch obviously doesn't think he is ready. Aurier, well its too soon. Talk about Utd Shaw coming, well not sure he is the right player. has he got pace? He seems injury prone as well.

I am not sure what the best solution is but I do think rose will go in the summer.
It'sME
07/11/2017 20:24:00
1
Itsme: Walker won the Pfa young player when he was 19/20, he has always been a top RB, yeah he might make the odd mistake however, never out of top 3-4 rb in the league. Walker, verts, dembele and Ce where always good players what MP is doing is getting them to the level they should be playing at. A few seasons back Verts had a big sulk on and was playing like a wussey, look at him now MOM most games, however, doesn't get the recognition. Rose has definitely improved under MP, he is fitter and defends better than before. Spurs can sell in the summer but not in Jan as Rose is needed for this season, if he goes i would prefer selling outside of the pl if not he honors his contract.
palmover
07/11/2017 21:14:00
0
spursex - well if we are so in line with market pay, why are we struggling to attract the very best players? As I understand it, a lot of a Spurs player's compensation is incentivised, ie if the team win this, you get that bonus. The problem is that if the team struggle for whatever reason (like Chelsea 2 years ago), most players won't get their bonuses and they'll be making a fraction of what they'd be making elsewhere. Essentially, players are getting paid (or not) based on something they only have limited control over (ie team results), and the mistakes of one player (say a goalkeeper having a catastrophic season) could negatively impact the salaries of all. As a prospective candidate, I would never join any organisation offering that sort of compensation. Our pay structure depends on so many if and buts that we are simply not competitive. Your previous experience at an agency would surely confirm that: if one of your clients had the choice between a club who would guarantee the compensation, and a club who heavily incentivised the compensation based on KPI's out of your client's sole control, which would you advise him to join? As for the "sugar daddy" model being unsustainable, tell that to Chelsea fans who have been benefiting from it for the last 13 years... I am not disputing your overall premise that unbalanced models are in theory unsustainable, because they rely on constant outside help. However, if a billionaire is crazy enough to be willing to "throw money at it" every year for prolonged periods of time (and the proof is in the pudding, several billionaires apparently are), there has to be a point when the model has survived for long enough to be called stable. If Roman keeps this up for another 20 years and becomes CFC's longest tenured owner, surely "unsustainable" is the wrong choice of word. Humans have been known to do stupid things for prolonged periods of time, becoming predictably/sustainably stupid. That possibility also exists - open your mind.
BelgianSpur
08/11/2017 10:02:00
0

It's the same for all clubs in that respect BS. Players have incentives and are paid bonuses at all levels. Rose would not have earned as much when not playing than if he were for the past however many months. Same as if it were Kompany et al for City or any number of the many injury prone Gooners etc... There are appearances bonuses. Remaining in the PL bonuses. Finishing 2nd as opposed to 17th bonuses ... Or whatever else may or may not be written into the personal and private contracts of any pro football anywhere.

If Watford were to finish above Spurs this season, should it then follow that their players are automatically deserving of average higher earnings than Lloris, Harry and co., regardless of their clubs overall income, running costs and expenditure? Or, do they simply get paid in line with and relative to their clubs standard policies and wage structures, If they are to realistically continue into the following season in a similar vein?

Hot Tottingham
08/11/2017 11:14:00
0
BS. If we look at the cold hard stats as opposed to just watching him play for Spurs Trippier is out performing Walker, (when a Spurs player) a lot already this season as part of a team and with his own personal productivity. Comparing him to Walker and Spurs at this stage of last season we were slightly worse off in the PL and nowhere near as well off in the CL. Tripper has just a couple of assists short of De Bruyne (at the top) and the same as Walker. However Walker is playing for the high-flying City, that as a club, are doing better than Spurs. But this is not how to judge an individual player and even the assists do not prove one way or the other who is the better player/wing back.
Hot Tottingham
08/11/2017 11:27:00
0
HT - as you say yourself, you can't argue that Trippier is outperforming Walker last year, just because the team, as a whole, is better off. Our better showings in the PL and CL are not entirely down to Trippier, as a matter of fact Aurier has also started some of those games. In terms of direct competition between the 2, Walker is still starting for England ahead of Trippier, and we'll see what individual accolades (ie team of the season) either wins. But there really is no debate for me as long as Walker is the clear cut starter in his team, and Trippier isn't for Spurs. You can't be the best RB in the PL if you can't even show that you're the best RB at your club. At the moment, Walker is at least in the conversation, as all the other automatic starters for their clubs. With regards to compensation, it's one thing to guarantee 80% of total potential earnings and throw a carrot of 20% in bonuses - all clubs do that. But if you are incentivising 50% of total potential earnings, and linking that to team results, you're not competitive.That's my point. Having some degree of variable income is fairly standard, but Jenas was saying earlier this season that at Spurs, it's a huge proportion.
BelgianSpur
08/11/2017 15:14:00
0

But that was my point, BS. If the team is doing better at this time, with both Aurier AND Trippier, then why should we now still concern ourselves about having sold Walker.

Walker being picked for England is not a definite indicator of who is the better footballer/option for Spurs or even the National team, long term, anyway.

Kyle wanted to leave. He left for a club that is paying him a ton more cash. We have 2 able full/wing backs to now share the duties and we are doing fine, as a team, without him.

It will always be about the team and how it functions as a whole. For instance, (when talking of who plays for England), Alf Ramsey in '66 had to defend at least 2 or 3 of his squad choices when talking to the hyper-critical media, as they were players not considered by many to be the best in their positions. And why oh why did he not pick a fit again Greaves for the final and retain the inexperienced Geof Hurst?! Sir Alf insisted that they were all indeed the best for his planned set-up and his tactics. He was proved right.

If Trippier is now seen as England's No 2, then that aint so shabby anyway, is it? And, who knows, come the summer, he may well have earned himself the right to start in Russia. With the inevitable drop of form of both Kyle and City, that's to be taken over by the stunning rise above them, of Kieran, Aurier and Tottenham.

Hot Tottingham
09/11/2017 06:37:00
0
HT - I think you miss my point. We could very well be getting weaker defensively and better overall, just because we've gotten even better going forward. Whatever improvement we have seen as a team would be further heightened with Walker still in the team, in my opinion. That's the point. While there is no point in staying stuck in the past, I agree, we can certainly discuss the failure to bring in an adequate replacement. Back to Rose, the same logic applies. Davies has done OK, and because of improvements elsewhere in the team, we are doing better overall. But I am convinced that an in-form Rose will add yet another dimension to the team. Letting him go would be a mistake.
BelgianSpur
09/11/2017 18:17:00
0

BS, I didn't want Walker to go and I definitely want Rose to stay but whatever has happened and what ever does happen, if the team is performing and does perform to a better end result then where is the problem in that? I can only go on what I've seen and, it's a complete waste of my thoughts and time to be speculating that possibly, with an ex-player still at Spurs, we would be doing even better....... With both Walker and Rose, if it is their choice to go to pastures new then so be it. To say letting Rose go will be a mistake is again just speculation. If he is still wanted but actually wants to leave then what can we do? Even so, If we do not have adequate replacements for Kyle, as you are suggesting, then the simple logic would be that we would be doing worse and not better. Surely?

I'll say it again, even though it remains an obvious claim... It's how the team functions as a whole that counts. Individuals can improve that whole or detract from it. If the overall results are improved and the team/squad is performing better, then it's working. Regardless of our own subjective views on this or that player being better or not than another, ex-player.

Hot Tottingham
10/11/2017 09:58:00
0
HT - I have no problem seeing good players go if I feel that the club has done all it could to retain them. That's where the discussion lies, I think.
BelgianSpur
10/11/2017 14:44:00
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