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Tottenhams Lloris and Poch Violently Disagree.

Tottenhams Lloris and Poch Violently Disagree.



A crack as wide as a chasm appeared this afternoon.

'Violently` is a subjective word, but what else do you call such a fundamental difference of opinion of what constitutes success or what, most importantly, should be unanimity on the club`s achievable aims and goals for the season?

Lloris has just made Poch`s recent musing on what we were/are striving for this season sound pretty silly.

Just over a month ago Poch insisted when talking to the standard;

"The project at Tottenham is to try to win the Premier League or the Champions League, the two big trophies," Pochettino said. "If we try to win the League Cup and forget the Premier League or Champions League, it`s a big mistake."

I`d suggest forgetting the Premier league and prioritising the Champions league is a piece of monumental folly. (Cue all the 'we have to reach for the stars believers!`) Did Poch really believe that a jumble sale of walking wounded and hastily reorganised defence and midfield was good enough to beat a team that had only lost once in the last nine? Worst still to almost guarantee we`d virtually hand 3 points to our nearest rivals?

Does he still believe that we can win the Premier league and did any of our players ever believe it?

Today we had our Captain either in blissful ignorance of what Poch said to the Standard so recently, or he was calling Poch an 'outsider`

LLoris was speaking to the very same Standard as Poch spoke to, and derided all the talk of winning the Premier league and made all our ambitions come down to Earth with an almighty thump, or more specifically a very English old rendition of blah de blah de bloody blah when he said;

"Before we think about City it`s important to stay in the top four. This is the main target for our team," the Spurs Captain declared.
"We heard from outside that Tottenham play for the title, blah, blah, blah. The most important thing is to stay consistent in the League"

Lloris didn`t stop there;

"We have been in the top four the last two years and we need to carry on, to settle the club in this position and try to get more experience because the team is still young, then reduce the gap with the best".
Looking forwards he said;
"Obviously the future for Tottenham will be bright if we keep the same mentality. It`s our ambition, but step by step, It`s true that we wanted to do more against Manchester United and Arsenal.
Unfortunately, we couldn`t do that so now it`s important to have a run of victories because we need to keep our place at the top."


It seems to me that as bitterly disappointing as the result and the manner of our loss on Saturday, that what you cannot have is your Captain going off message, especially when one of our rivals players now sitting just above us says this;

Pogba asked if Man Utd can still win the Premier League
A BBC reporter asked Pogba:
'You (Man United) can still win the league, do you think?'


To which Pogba said
'Yeah, the season is very long. Of course (we can win the league). If I don't believe that, I stop playing.
'If I don't believe that we can still win the league, I better stop, I'll leave my boots and I'll stop playing football, because I'm a believer and we keep fighting.'

That speaks to whole different mentality to me, does it you, maybe the next time Lloris is on international duty he should have a chat with his team mate and see what makes him tick?



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:Spursex
Date:Monday November 20 2017
Time: 6:00PM

Comments

0
Hmm, basically, we are aiming to win another top-4 trophy ... unless by January, the FA Cup becomes our priority. We can't seem to put two consecutive good performances together and we are aiming for the moon. Spurs and Poch, both need a trophy on their cv.
critical_spur
20/11/2017 19:11:00
0
Spurs need a new Captain. Verts or Kane. Oh and trophies.
palmover
20/11/2017 20:02:00
0
I'm actually OK if Spurs stay under the radar for a while. It would have been easy for Lloris to heap more pressure on us by making bold declarations. Let's just try and stay in touch at the top and see what happens. Right now, the squad doesn't look capable of winning the league but it would be special if we can move into the new stadium with CL football.
muttley
20/11/2017 21:57:00
0
muttley .... That's what I think, too.
Geofspurs
20/11/2017 22:38:00
0
'Lloris and Poch violently disagree' seems a bit extreme for what was actually said. I don't see what the problem is. Mind you, my eyesight isn't as good as it once was!
Geofspurs
20/11/2017 22:44:00
0
I admire Lloris for trying to set realistic expectations. I agree with him. I think Pogba has his head up a dark place if he thinks Man U are going to catch City but that's another story. You can look at that either as having a winning mentality, or just handing people the stick to beat you with if you fail. Man U also have a long history of winning, so he has to say that and the pressure to win is there regardless. At our club, I don't think the expectations are to win a trophy each year. For me, MP is making a mistake setting lofty expectations with fans. What happens if we continue playing great football but we still haven't won anything in 2 years? 5 years? Sooner or later someone is going to say that it won't happen under MP. And if MP himself is saying we can and will win things, it just adds pressure to his position until he does.
BelgianSpur
21/11/2017 07:42:00
0
If people believe some dude is coming from heaven to save the world then Pogba saying he still believes doesn't mean he is wrong. Man.u /spurs ply city twice should spurs lay down and let city win because they are playing great ball. City have been very good but a few key decisions have gone their way Kompany should have been sent off Vs Lester, when he fouled Vardy who was clean through on goal, only got a yellow. If it was 12 games to go i would agree but there is way too much football to throw in the towel now, in my humble opinion.
palmover
21/11/2017 09:03:00
0
palmover - I am just going of stats here. But teams that build up such a points gap, even as early as November, are rarely caught, if history can teach us anything. It CAN always happen, it's just not very likely to.
BelgianSpur
21/11/2017 10:07:00
0
Stop being like the media, looking for problems, we have enough of them to iron out as it is without adding more. I don't think there is any conflict, we know Poch and loris are on the same wave length. What I read into what Lloris said was simply this 'we have dropped behind and he wants the players to stay focused on an objective that appears more reasonable NOW since there is abig big gap, a top four finish' I felt he was wanting to make sure we don't let the title challenge that seems to be getting out of our reach affect our ability of styaing in the top 4, because it could well do, if the players were so focused on title and believed it was possible and now feel the gap has got too wide their heads may drop and this could be a disaster and see us fall away and struggle to get top 4 which has to be our main objective now. This doesn't mean they cannot still aim higher for the title, but it's not in our hands now, City and those above us have to drop points, City a lot of points and they look so good this season, so what Lloris is saying is simply that we need to aim for top 4 and see where it takes us, it's not about having less expectations it's about being realistic and keeping the players heads up after falling so far behind. If they stay focused on top 4, winning as mnay games as they can the title will come if others drop points and we win all our games, but it's unlikely now. He was imo simply trying to re focus the players which is what a captain should do. As for what Pogba said, well they are not so far behind are they, until the Arsenal loss there was still a glimmer of hope that we could catch both Utd and City, so obviously Utd still believe they are not so far behind City as we are, and besides Pogba isn't a captain that has a job to do like Lloris has at this moment. I also think it takes thr pressure of the lads with the media, speak about top 4 externally but internally aim higher, but I seriously think they will be focused on just trying to win every game and see where it takes them and if othes drop points and we come within reaching distance then there may be some enthusiasm for the title, but it's unlikely and Lloris job is give the players a new focus and he did just that, but you can bet internally they will still be watching others closely to see if they drop points and they will be ready to punce if they do.

Is it 11 points adrift now! if City lose to a lesser team and we win, like next game that takes us to 8 points adrift, if we beat them that takes us back to 5 points, so it's not over, and it is not unrealsitic that this couldn't happen. City could easily take their eye of the ball when they get so far ahead and drop points to a unlikely team, and then face a top six club who will pounce and go for the jugular and drop further points, so it's not over yet, but it's better Lloris said what he said to re focus the team becuase if they let this loss to Arsenal get to them and feel their target is gone they could well drop out of the top 4 and that would be devastating and a backward step.

I think from what Eriksen said, bit of a spikey response in press conference that the players will be determined to prove everyone wrong, starting tonight. They have pride now, they know they are part of a project that has got them this far and started to see themselves as bigger and better players and they will want to prove that and show the Arsenal game was a hiccup, these players are different to players of the past, they will want to put things right and make sure they have a good season.

It will be good to go under the radar for a few weeks, and xmas is a good time for that because a lot can happen and if we do that and go unnoticed and get good result in this period and others drop a fe points things may look different come January.

having said all this I still think there are issues that need sorting like our transfers, recruitment which I mentioned in other posts, and also back up striker for kane, and we need some injury players back, there is still room for improvement in these areas and I suggest recruitment is a priority and a striker is another one.
It'sME
21/11/2017 10:50:00
0
City haven't had a bad spell yet, they may not but they may well do. They look good though and anything can happen in football but then equally with such a gap they may well win the title easily, we just don't know. Two bad results can changed everything, and actually if you look at our own results, Utd was unlucky, a moment of madness cost us 3 points. Against Arsenal we had too mnay injuries. Our midfield was weak because dembele isn't fit and is rusty, and Sissoko isn't good enough but had to play him because Winks is recovering from injury and Dier is needed at the back, although we could have changed formation which I would have done if Winks wasn't able to start and played Dier in the middle. Dele come back from injury but is off form and we haven't any real subs with Lamela still out, GK not to be seen and Son hit and miss. We are struggling because of injuries and players out of form and our play against Arsenal was disjointed and lacked pace and urgency and aggression. Back to recruitment as I said, too many players brought in and having no impact on the first team. Are Llorente, GK, really pushing for a starting place - No. Janssen wasn't either and is gone, Njie wasn't when he was with us, Sissoko is actually playing but is way below our standards and didn't push last season, so we need to really adress this issue, because when we get out of form players or injuries other players have had little game time because they haven't pushed the first team enough. We need a bench that is pushing the first team and can come in a do a job when needed, and they will be able to do it because they have had more playing time because they have competed all season. Imagine bringing on GK for example, hasn't played much football because he is obviously not competing. These players need to be brought on as subs earlier in the game to feel part of it, and stay fresh and not be rusty and stay motivated, but it seems they are not good enough to do that, they hardly see game time, not even half hour, they are not pushing the first team imo so why are we buying so many of these players, may as well have youngsters in the sqaud.
It'sME
21/11/2017 11:03:00
0
It'sME - Realistically, City need 4 bad results on the trot, more to the point, in order to even reopen the possibility of a title race (all the while we pick up max points in the corresponding fixtures). You argue that it can always happen. True, it can, just as much as I can in theory win the lottery tomorrow. I would rather live in a world where we base hypotheses on what is likely to happen. City suddenly collapsing is not very likely. Much like Chelsea last year. Even Leicester 2 years ago, who were much more likely candidates to have a bad wobble, didn't. When you're in the driver's seat and you can smell success, it does wonders to motivate the squad. Plus they've got Kompany back now, which adds yet another dimension.
BelgianSpur
21/11/2017 13:11:00
0
belgianSpur-I do actually agree, I don't think City will lose it now ans I don't think we will push so much this season.

I think the problem with title challenging goes deeper in another direction. First getting of to a good start and for us to be at the top and let others chase us. EWe haven't learnt how to do that and haven't improved in that area. That to be is niave after the last two seasons. To do that with our squad it's blatently obvious we needed and need a striker who hits the ground running, kane is renouned for not starting quick, we haven't addressed that, so when kane starts slow we start slow and straight awaya we drop points. Secondly we need to get our business done early so all players are fit and had a decent pre season, we never do that either.

I agree when your in the driving seat it's easier than when your chasing and I really thought we would see that and try and remedy it from the past two seasons. But we didn't, we got Llorente last day, knowing Son was out as well so relied upon Kane knowing he starts slow. We didn't do most of our business until late either and so pre season was not great for some players. This season was harder because of the wembley factor, but we still could have done better with our recruitment and learnt from previous seasons, but then again as I keep saying our recruitment of late is not great, too many players coming in and not pushing or contributing to the first team.

It begs to believe why we let Vickers go out on loan and Onamah who seems to be doing alright. Vickers could have played while in a back 3 while Toby is out and Onamah could have brouyght something while Dele is off form and we have injuries in midfield, but no we keep GK over Onamah and we leave our self short when Toby is injured but let Sheffield have Vickers.

I think our objective now is top 4 and may be see if we can do well in the CL and FA cup but we are struggling with injuries.
It'sME
21/11/2017 17:34:00
0
It'sME - I am not as convinced as you are that Onomah and CCV are ready to contribute right away for us, and good performances in the lower leagues don't change that. For their own sake they are better off playing regularly, but I can't say I miss either. Let's see Onomah perform like a Loftus Cheek at PL level before we get excited.
BelgianSpur
22/11/2017 07:11:00
0
Very dramatic response I think... I can't even see where there is any dissagreement at all. Poch is talking about our project as a club. Our goal, and that it is to aim for the top. Hugo is simply saying in his own way, 'one game at a time'. It wasn't an argument between them but just two different points of view when looking at the same thing. Surely a dissagreement would be Lloris stating that our aim is NOT to win the PL or CL. And I'm most sure that he doesn't think that at all.
Hot Tottingham
22/11/2017 09:09:00
0
George Graham put it very well once when he said "I'm not in a position to pick and choose which trophies I win". We're operating at a higher level now but the situation is the same. In the league we are eleven points behind City, United are their closest challengers and they are eight points behind. If City keep going then there won't be a title race, they will win the league with points to spare. On the other hand we are if anything over achieving in the Champions league, so keep going. Having said all that top four is important. This year's performances in Europe are built on last season's failures. We learnt from them and came back stronger. You only do that if you qualify for the Champions league every season.
jod
22/11/2017 09:27:00
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