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Poch signings - can we trust his judgement in January?

Poch signings - can we trust his judgement in January?



Poch made it clear in his book that whilst we do have an acquisition and assessment team of analysts and scouts and we do have a head of recruitment, it is Poch that has the final yeah or nay and then these targets (expected to be within Budget) are handed over for Levy & Co to make them happen, or not.

As I recently pointed to, Poch's bemoaning of our inability to sign players in a timely manner was a very sharp boot up Levy`s backside - but does he and his recruitment team deserve one too for the number of failures we`ve had and discarded?

Mind you, when you look at the current value of the those on the 'Successful list' if you made a judgement on that alone, we are miles ahead. The one arguable on the failure list is Sissoko, although to me it is now unquestionably a financial and playing failure.

Part of Levy`s juggling act is to make sure that the required squads earning ambitions can be met whilst staying within our performance based remuneration packages; it is well known this can temper our ability to get the targets that we have aimed at and it is said it is this that led to Paul Mitchell to leave.

Our squad depth is shallow and our back-up quality is questionable, you either take the view that Poch has done some remarkable things with the resources available to him, or you take the view that in some area`s of need, he just doesn`t see what fans see and we have far too many misses than hits, but is that fair?

Looking at other clubs hit and miss lists taken as a whole, I keep seeing a 50/50 assessment - except perhaps for the moneybags clubs where on the face if it they are buying such quality that failures are somewhat rarer.

The Successful signings list:

Ben Davies
Eric Dier
Heung-Min Son
Toby Alderweireld
Kieran Trippier
Victor Wanyama
Davinson Sánchez
Dele Alli
Michel Vorm

The Juries out List:

Serge Aurier
Fernando Llorente
Juan Foyth
Paulo Gazzaniga

The Failure list:

Federico Fazio
Pau López
Benjamin Stambouli
DeAndre Yedlin
Clinton N'Jie
Kevin Wimmer
Moussa Sissoko
Vincent Janssen
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou

So will we start addressing the weaknesses in our squad in January, and if so will Poch get it right this time?

Or will Levy once again refuse to pay a January Premium and are we in for yet another disappointing and mostly inactive January?

Our predominantly weakening less than convincing performances this season (apart from the highlight of the champions league) suggests we need to make some big investments in the right sort of players and we need to do it in January, but with a minus £5 million spend in the last five seasons and a stadium build in full swing will we all be bitterly (including Poch) disappointed with our January business yet again?



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:Spursex
Date:Monday December 18 2017
Time: 10:40AM

Comments

0
We properly won’t sign anyone. At this time every single player is a fail as the team is looking like lost sheep needing a field to chew on. Coys
bazdog
18/12/2017 11:07:00
1
Kyle walker ruined the good spirit in the camp and it don’t look as if it’s coming back with this group. We need to sign the best young ones in the world ahead of scity.coys
bazdog
18/12/2017 11:10:00
0
Answer to the titled question, NO!....unless it's yet another defender. Is there another N'something available on the cheap?!
Critical_Spur
18/12/2017 11:16:00
0
Rose may be busy googling in January.
Critical_Spur
18/12/2017 11:17:00
6
If you are expecting us to get every signing right you are living in a fantasy land. For one thing its hard to guage a players attitude before you've worked with him, he might say the right things then do the wrong ones once he has a contract. For another the player or his family might not settle, more of a problem with players coming in from abroad. Some signings are a gamble from the start. Poch knew Aurier had problems when he signed him, he's gambling he can sort them out and make him a better player. If he succeeds we'll have a hell of a player, if he fails Aurier will be unloaded. Its a gamble and we knew that going in. The word failure is itself emotive. Fazio rediscovered his talent at Roma, Yedlin and Wimmer are still playing in the premier league. So does not being good enough for us make them failures ? Another problem with your logic is with our income we don't buy the finished product, we buy players and make them better players. So anyone we buy in January is unlikely to make much impact before next season. That's assuming you can buy the players you want in January (unlikely) at prices and wages you can afford (also unlikely). Panic spending isn't a recipe for success its a recipe for trouble.
jod
18/12/2017 11:19:00
0
We can still scrape into the top 4,but there does seem to be something rotten eating away at the centre of our club. We all know his name & that he dances to Joe Lewis's tune. Spurs ambitions will always be limited by this mean twosome. They have taken the club to financial stability ,got a good manager & a super stadium & I applaud them for that.But I feel to get to the next level we need a billionaire who spends like he enjoys football more than just accumulating assets.
Greavesaboveall
18/12/2017 11:26:00
4
"Another problem with your logic is with our income we don't buy the finished product, we buy players and make them better players." For the most part, this is true. You cannot judge any Spurs manager in the transfer market, by the same standards as other clubs, below or above us. We are trying to buy top 4 level players on a relatively small budget. We're constantly buying potential, taking low risk punts, or purchasing talented players on the cheap due to poor behavioural reputations (Adebayor/Aurier). Anywhere close to a 50/50 success rate under these conditions is excellent.
Guyver
18/12/2017 11:39:00
0
Man Utd,Chelsea & Man City have all expanded their revenue streams by going into debt. They are now balancing the books because they have increased their revenue.We have slipped behind them due to underinvestment in players of the highest quality. We are stagnating under ENIC it is time for them to go.
Greavesaboveall
18/12/2017 12:33:00
6
As a Spurs fan for over 65 years I guess I’ve seen all the ups and downs. But what surprises me most is we have a great team that is not being paid top wages and when we will soon have a new stadium why oh why can’t Levy invest in a couple of top players instead of the likes of Sissoko and Llorente. W are led to believe Pochettino has the final say on all transfers well he has not done too well so far. I believe that he maybe a great fitness manager but when it comes to tactics he has a great deal to learn. It’s no could making excuses he has no plan B Or C when things are clearly wrong. His recent team changes by putting Son at left back lost us the Semi against Chelsea. In fact his substitutions are so late the player has not got warmed up before the final whistle. His set plays are so poor I wonder if they really practice them. When was the last time we headed a corner kick in. Or, a direct free kick in from outside the box. Sadly, there is no imagination in either of these areas. Danny Blanchflower could have shown him a few if he were still alive. Even West Ham can score headed goals two against us in one game. When was the last time we did it! As for defending set pieces we are all over the place we could probably have stopped a few goals by putting someone on the goal post position. So Mr Levy ?Ge?t your cheque book out now not at the end of the transfer period where you.oke to show off and buy a top striker and a winger with pace who can shoot. As for you Mr Pochetino don’t rest on your laurels for you have won nothing and unless you stop underestimating how much all Competitions are to the fans then you will not last as a manager at Spurs. We have always loved the Cups.
John Greenwood1
18/12/2017 12:49:00
1
Why has De Bruyne not been retrospectively banned for diving?
Megaadz
18/12/2017 14:53:00
1
It's unlikely that Levy will spend money in January. Even if he does it will be on potential that will mean even if they become excellent players they will not positively affect this season. Barkley has been heavily touted but he would be a massive injury risk and hardly likely to meet Poch's fitness standards for a couple of months (although after last Saturday, maybe not). I can see us carrying on with the current bunch until the Summer when there will be a clear out of anyone who still has a saleable value and 'The Project' will begin again. As things stand I wouldn't trust Poch or his recruiting team to buy a newspaper let alone a footballer.
Harry-Kari
18/12/2017 16:01:00
0
If MP has any major say in our transfer policies, which I doubt, then given recent events with the arrival of the likes of N'Jie, N' Koudou, Jannson, and of course Mr Sissoko, whoever is responsible should get out of the way and let a semblance of common sense prevail. I would suggest targeting Zaha and Barkeley, at least they have proven PL quality and experience. The reason I don't totally blame MP for this is that he is only the latest in a line of managers at Spurs that have been let down in the transfer market. The managers are not the "common denominator", I wonder who is, answers on a post card.
Frank
18/12/2017 18:32:00
0
Whilst I can't justify either Kane or Ali for their tackles v City, deep down I secretly wish that Harry's tackle on that objectionable little prat Raheem Sterling had been more successful.
Frank
18/12/2017 18:38:00
0
Well said John Greenwood 1, I to am a Spurs supporter since the "Arthur Rowe push and run days" and share your thoughts and concerns.
Frank
18/12/2017 18:42:00
0
Seems quite gloomy on here after a run of disappointingish results. If you look at the last couple of seasons it's from this point on that we've kicked on and challenged it's just that other clubs weren't as strong as City this year. We're in 7th and 3 points off 4th having just lost to the table-toppers and the 3 teams above us don't look very convincing. I admit results are a little disappointing recently, but if this is as bad as it gets, a little faith in Poch and Levy would go a long way. I might be wrong, but I'm predicting we'll be no lower than 3rd by the time we play Everton in mid-Jan. COYS!
Parklaneyido
19/12/2017 01:13:00
0
Why sign anyone? Poch will not play them, apparently it takes at least six months to get up to fitness at Spurs, fitness for what? most certainly not for the high press or pace. Poch most certainly has his favourites and they (Dele Dier) and they play regardless. Really boring team atm.
ro6ertj
19/12/2017 08:38:00
0
Greavesaboveall - Not an accountant I take it ? United are one of the four richest clubs in the world, they have three times our revenue, any comparisons are ridiculous. Chelsea and City only "went into debt" in the sense the money their owners pumped in was originally shown as debt in the books. It was written off once FFP came in. Chelsea have now fallen behind Arsenal in terms of revenue, City still game the system through commercial revenue. Arsenal did go into real debt to build their stadium, guess what we are doing the same. I don't know how you think finance works but it doesn't seem to have much to do with how it actually works.
jod
19/12/2017 09:17:00
0
jod - therein lies the problem. We're the only top 6 club buying "gambles", or as someone recently said, "players you have to Google". It may have worked to a point (ie to get us where we are), but if we want to kick on, take the final (and often most difficult) step and actually win something, it's time to buy proven quality. I agree that January probably isn't the time to do that though. As for failures, you mention Fazio. We bought a player who was ill-suited for the PL. A recruitment error. Yedlin and Wimmer? Players who may be good enough for smaller teams, but that are unlikely to improve a top 6 team. Also a recruitment error. Or failures for us, no matter how you put it or what those players go on to be (in the same vein, Paulinho was also a PL failure, no matter what he does at Barca now). You seem to be OK with gambling on a player, and if he doesn't work out, we move on. Have you never heard of opportunity cost? Even if the deal itself comes out in the green, you've still failed to account for the missed opportunity of buying the right player in the first place. We have 3 or 4 key players who are rapidly approaching 30. Our window of opportunity isn't going to stay open forever. There's a time to take gambles, and there's a time to try to push on and win something. We tried the passive approach in 2011, and that led to nothing except the dismantling of a good team. I guess Levy isn't one to learn from history.
BelgianSpur
19/12/2017 09:51:00
0
BelgianSpur - Its the same old story isn't it ? no explanation as to where the money comes from. We gamble because we don't have a choice, other clubs can pay more in transfer fees and wages so we only get the players they reject if we go down that route. That's no way to win anything. So we develop our own talent and try to pick up players on the transfer market who we think we can turn into the top class talent we can't afford to buy. Its actually got us significantly further forward in the past few years. If you know of some large pile of cash laying around we can use please tell us (and Levy) where it is. Otherwise we are doing the best we can with what we have and it won't change until the full impact of the new stadium is felt. With regard to "opportunity cost", again if you know to get every transfer right please tell us. Telling us a player was wrong after the event doesn't help. Hindsight is great but its no use in the transfer market.
jod
19/12/2017 11:44:00
0
Christmas miracle coys
bazdog
19/12/2017 14:17:00
0
bazdog - I agree, Walker leaving has opened the door to unrest. Said it in another post another article. Last season all players were signing contracts. This season, there is uncertianty with Rose (outburst), Toby not signing, Dele looking at new agent. These issues need sorting, and the club have to take responsibility for their part in letting Walker go, even though Walker initiated it.

Jod - fair assessment. I don't think players that leave and don't work out are failures, it's harsh, it means they came with the intention to improve and it didn't work out. Most of them go on to have footballing careers, in different leagues and different countries, as you say some in the PL. We can't buy finished product now anyway, too expensive, so we will always take risks, bring in players that Poch feels he ca improve, the downside of this is that takes Time for most of them. The exception is Sanchez, he has come in a contributed immediately and will improve, but most will take time and some will not materialise, like Njie, Stamboli etc.
It'sME
19/12/2017 14:24:00
1
jod - again, I'm not the one the club has trusted to solve those issues, nor am I being paid to do so. We supposedly have a world class management team trying to fix these issues. They are certainly getting paid above average wages, are they delivering above average performance? Pretty much everything you say in your last post can be disproved. You ask where the money is coming from. We've answered that repeatedly. Our revenue-to-wages ratio is amongst the lowest in the PL, suggesting there is more than enough money. Where is the new money (Nike deal, CL prize money, PL prize money,...) going, if it's obviously not going into the squad? You still haven't answered that - probably because you can't. You say that it's impossible to buy the players to win things, because the big boys are snapping up the best players we can't afford. Tell that to the recruitment team who assembled Leicester's PL winning squad on a budget. You say we're developing our talent. 8 out of 10 players coming from the academy aren't good enough to impact our first team. It's never going to be a winning strategy and even teams with the best academies, like Barca, rely mostly on players they buy rather than ones they develop. Relying on the academy solely is never going to be a winning strategy. Hindsight is great if you actually learn from your previous mistakes. Repeating failing strategies is insanity, as Einstein once said. You may defend the current direction all you want, but the bottom line is that until proven otherwise (and we win something), the strategy is a failing one.
BelgianSpur
19/12/2017 14:29:00
0
Leicester winning the league is a once in a life time miracle, i wish people would stop using them as an example to prove anything. Its like saying playing the lottery is a viable way to earn lots of money because some guy named Bob won it 2 years ago.
Guyver
19/12/2017 15:08:00
0
Talking of signing prospects, we're being linked with a £20m move for Fulham LWB Ryan Sessegnon.
Guyver
19/12/2017 15:12:00
0
You also wanted Janssen yourself Frank, just proves transfers aint that easy.... Good points Jod!!
Ossie
19/12/2017 15:12:00
0
Guyver - the same could be said about much smaller teams winning trophies more recently than us... It's not just Leicester. I just reject the hypothesis that you have to have access to the very best players to win, and that you're doomed to winning nothing unless you do. Arsenal's squad is far from perfect, and by most people's views, a combined 11 would have no more than 3 Arsenal players in it. Yet they've won the FA Cup 2 years running. Using lack of resources as an excuse is just that. Overall, greater resources can explain greater success over a prolonged period of time. But as a one-off, there's no reason why we couldn't have won something.
BelgianSpur
19/12/2017 15:51:00
0
Ossie - can I have a go at the Janssen deal then ;-)?
BelgianSpur
19/12/2017 15:51:00
0
I meant the EPL Belgian. Ive seen many people cite Leicester, even though they themselves cannot come close to replicating that season, even with mostly the same players. Of course teams with less resources are more able to win the cups, because the bigger teams tend to take them less seriously.. especially the league cup. Although even cups are mostly dominated by the richest clubs.
Guyver
19/12/2017 16:26:00
0
Arsenal are a wealthy club, with a massive wage bill and a talented squad. They are reputedly prepared to spend £300k on Ozils wages. I'd consider them a club with resources.
Guyver
19/12/2017 16:32:00
0
btw I think the FA Cup is our best chance of success also as I don't think Arsenal and Spurs are too far apart. If they can win it, there is no reason we can't as well. I don't care so much about the league cup, the fact the big teams and even some of the smaller ones play their B team, takes a lot of the satisfaction away for me.
Guyver
19/12/2017 16:36:00
0
Guyver, how is the Leicester side the same side that won the league. They sold 2 of the best MFers in the PL in Kante and Drinkwater both to Chelsea, after winning the title. Incidentally they made a hefty profit on both having bought them for peanuts and selling them for "proper money", a lesson in recruitment that we should heed, we usually do it the other way around.
Frank
19/12/2017 16:52:00
0
BelgianSpur I totally agree with your 14.29 post, spot on.
Frank
19/12/2017 16:56:00
0
Frank, I said leicester had "mostly" the same players. Last season, Leicester only lost kante, thats one single player and yet they spent most of the season near the relegation zone, just like the season prior to their league win. Also if Leicesters recruitment is so great, surely they should easily be able to replace a couple of players with the vast profit they made, to get them close to their 15/16 season? Its just not that simple.
Guyver
19/12/2017 17:26:00
0
Unfortunately for Leicester is no there so their enviable brevet it meant policy that brought the likes of Vardy, Kante, Mahrez, Drinkwater, and the Japanese guy amongst others, all at bargain fees, will no doubt be interrupted at least for the time being.
Frank
19/12/2017 18:29:00
0
Guyver, of course you are absolutely right regarding the better chance of winning the FA Cup and I would add the League cup, than the PL due to the number of, and the one off nature of the games, required to be won. The trouble is we seem not to take either competition seriously. A trophy is a trophy and given it is almost 10 years since we won anything, one would be very welcome. We have a nice start this time with AFC Wimbledon (H), so let's see how determined we are to win the FACup 2017-18.
Frank
19/12/2017 18:39:00
0
Due to typo errors my post re Leicester's recruitment reads as a nonsense. It should say that the bloke responsible for the catalogue of players signed for peanuts fees, some of whom have now left for huge profits, has since left the club.
Frank
19/12/2017 18:42:00
0
Ossie, my concern over the Jannson deal was not that I wanted us to sign him as such, but that in true Spurs fashion, the deal was dragging on and on and apparently getting nowhere, so I said we should push on and get it done. As is too often the case with us, he has proved as several expensive striker signings before him to be a wrong signing, a square peg who Spurs try in vain to fit into a round hole, this is the precise situation with Lloriente, a player who is prolific with his head until he comes to us, where he never gets a cross.
Frank
19/12/2017 18:51:00
0
Yes Arsenal are now a rich club, but I can remember while we were winning the double etc. they were very much 2nd best in Nth London. They then got sold by the Hill-Wood family, the new owners pushed the boat out, built a new stadium when money was cheap, at the time when we should have done the same, they recruited a manager and backed him, and stuck with him, their revenue streams dramatically improved, they signed a series of top quality players, won trophies and had 17 or 18 seasons of CL qualification, and the rest is history. Oh how they got it right, and we, or rather ENIC, have got it spectacularly wrong. We are now shutting the door after the horse has bolted by at last building the new stadium, better late than never I suppose.
Frank
19/12/2017 19:05:00
0
How many teams have won back to back pl titles in recent times. City who spend the most haven't won the epl for four seasons. Lester compared to spurs since they won the title still managed to reach the last 8 of CL. MP has reached a cup final, semi final and has failed whereas wenger can get his players to perform on the big day knocking out city and beating the chavs in the final is something MP can only dream about. Belittle the LC, however, Pep, mourinho and conte want to win it.
palmover
19/12/2017 20:43:00
0
These topics wouldn't be as prevalent if City and United hadn't significantly improved. We are only 5 points off our tally from last season, even if we had the same points at this stage as we did last year we would still be a mammoth 16 points behind city.
spurfect one
19/12/2017 21:49:00
0
"Belittle the LC, however, Pep, mourinho and conte want to win it." When you genuinely want to win a cup palmover, you don't play your reserves. No decent premiership team cares about the League cup, until/unless they get to the final. As Mourinho says, it should be scrapped. For EPL clubs, it effectively has the same value as the community shield, hence most people would rather a top 4 finish, over a League Cup trophy. As for "no team wins the EPL back to back", Leicester will likely not win the EPL again in your life time. Its not just that they didn't win back to back titles, its that their 2nd season was spent fighting relegation for the most part. They currently hold the record for the worse EPL title defence in history.
Guyver
19/12/2017 22:11:00
0
spurfect one, Man Utd are just a couple of points behind the EPL points record at this same stage. Man City are setting a pace at unprecedented levels. Man Utd would be 1st or very close to first in any other season.
Guyver
19/12/2017 22:14:00
0
Frank, I believe we do take the FA Cup seriously, based on team selection, but it is clearly 3rd on the list of priorities, behind the Champions League and premiership.
Guyver
19/12/2017 22:23:00
0
The recent league cup winners are Chavs, City and Man.u So the big teams are winning it who ever they play. You keep making excuse's for a lack of any trophy over MP reign as if it is impossible, is he that bad.
palmover
19/12/2017 23:05:00
0
So palmover, surprise, surprise, the 3 richest clubs have won the LG in recent times, despite playing their reserves in the competition. Thank you for proving my point. Their squad players are better than most clubs A team, thanks to their massive financial advantage. It's not an "excuse" unless you are delusional and believe every non elite, non-big spending club in Europe happens to be using the exact same excuse.
Guyver
20/12/2017 04:25:00
0
BelgianSpur - So Leicester bought players who were more talented than those the big boys bought ? That is utter rubbish. Leicester's title was a classic case of mental strength and organisation trumping ability, the best team beating the best individuals. Its happened before and it will happen again in many sports. Spouting a few meaningless statistics is not explaining where the money is coming from. United have three times our income, City about twice. You can witter on about revenue-to-wages ratio until the cows come home, it won't change anything. Cash is cash and the competition has a lot more than we do, refusing to deal with reality and trying to pretend that you can somehow talk the problem away is just living in fantasy land. You sound a bit like those politicians who promise things they can't pay for.
jod
20/12/2017 08:36:00
0
jod - you sound like an accountant who is so obsessed with his excel spreadsheets that he can't see the reality of the world he operates in. If Leicester's players weren't more talented than the others, why did Mahrez win PFA player of the year in 2016? Why was Kante bought for a huge fee by Chelsea, and how was he able to walk into Chelsea's team? And incidentally, win the PFA player of the year the following year? That's right - because they were more talented. These are cold hard facts, and you're just plain wrong if you refuse to accept them, I'm sorry to say. As far as cash is concerned, are transfers conducted in dodgy lobbies with suitcases full of cash? If it's only the 2 or 3 richest teams who win things, why has Arsenal won the FA Cup 2 years in a row, despite not being in the same financial world as the Manchester clubs? You are starting to sound desperate now, and personal attacks on other posters aren't going to make your false assumptions any less false..
BelgianSpur
20/12/2017 09:39:00
0
Guyver - I never said that Arsenal had no resources. But they're still some way short of Manchester's riches, yet they have managed to win things. We are not without resources ourselves. We've just either been unwilling to dedicate enough of those resources to our squad, or have been dreadful at making the best use of those resources. As the article points out, we've missed on about 50% of our transfers under MP. Coincidentally, Arsenal have bought less players than we have in recent years, but they have gone for quality over quantity. Sanchez, Ozil, Cech, Kolasinac, Lacazette - in the last 3 years. They've only bought one or 2 players per window, but all of those those players have improved their 11 every time. I'd rather buy 1 world class player than 5 Davies, Stamboulis, N'Koudous or players of that type. But Levy likes to hedge his bets, and resale value is an important factor to him. When Arsenal eventually move Giroud on, it's unlikely that they'll get anything near what they paid. But they will have gotten their money's worth from him. That's the difference.
BelgianSpur
20/12/2017 09:47:00
0
Having watched Conte, pep, Mourinho and Wenger closely they are better football managers than MP and i believed would have won at least one trophy in the time MP has been in charge. I can't understand why MP finds it so difficult to put together a balanced team in 4 seasons he's managed it for half a season last year apart from that it's always square pegs in round holes why do the other top managers put out balanced teams without any problems. MP comes across as if he's working from a manual, which he sticks to unless there are no other options.
palmover
20/12/2017 09:51:00
1
BelgianSpur, I never said you stated Arsenal had "no" resources, that would be a ridiculous thing to say. They simply prove that the more money you invest, the more likely you are to win things, as im sure you'd agree with. They invest significantly more than we (and most clubs) do, so not sure why you are using them as an example. Also if you are talking about the last 3-4 years, you are also talking about the likes of Xhaka, Asano, Perez,Gabriel, Welbeck, Chambers, Elneny, Mustafi ect Ive thats over £120m worth of players that haven't done well. Their annual wage bill is currently the 4th highest in the league at £235m, not too far off Man City at £244m, Chelsea £256m and Man Utd £264m. Liverpools is £200m. Our wage bill is £120m, which is a lot closer to the likes of Swansea, Sothampton, Stoke, West Ham and Everton who all pay between £90m-£100m. So Arsenal are in the elite category when it comes to overall spending. The fact you place us in the same bracket as Arsenal in terms of personnel, shows how well we've done in the transfer market despite spending a lot less.
Guyver
20/12/2017 11:31:00
1
palmover, what trophy would those managers have won with Tottenham? You can't even say the premiership in 15/16 because none of those managers were able to win it, or even compete, despite managing clubs who invest a lot more than we do.
Guyver
20/12/2017 11:36:00
0
Guyver - I struggle to define us as "doing well" while the most objective part of success, ie trophies, still eludes us. The original point I was trying to make is that the richest overall team doesn't always win. They win most of the time, but there are still a limited number of opportunities for the clubs next in line, as you go down the value chain. Arsenal are 4th down the list, we're 6th. Teams far below our resource levels have won things more recently than we have, so we are not punching our weight, statistically speaking.
BelgianSpur
20/12/2017 12:45:00
0
People can talk on about who makes the highest revenues all day if they want but if Poch had signed the right attacking players in his time here the chances are we would have won a trophy. As the rest of the team is there regardless of our financial restraints. We have blown nearly 80m on poor attacking signings in the last 2 seasons. One of them players earning 100k a week and costing 30m in transfer fee's. We also spent over 40m on a CB this summer. We also pay a really good bonus scheme at the club which others do not do. That proves we do pay out on transfer fee's and we do pay out on wages. Anyone with half a brain knows we can't compete with the big 5 financially at the moment. But that doesn't mean we are skint and can't compete. The victim act has to stop. Always an excuse for spurs fans when we fail. We must be smarter with our transfers.
Real Deal
20/12/2017 13:01:00
0
We are financially 6th, but a very distant 6th, much closer to the chasing pack, than to the nearest club above us (Liverpool). Success is relative. If Huddersfield stay up, they have succeeded wouldn't you agree? Depends on your expectations. If for example, we reach the final of the CL but lose, we've had a successful campaign. Whereas if Real Madrid reach the final and lose, they would consider it a failure. So unless you go into every season "expecting" to win the league, or a cup, then no, a trophy is not an objective measure of success. Im sure Birmingham fans would happily trade in their league Cup for a place in the premiership. But just to clarify, when I said we were doing well, this was based on your opinion that we have a superior team (1st 11) to Arsenal, despite spending much, much less on transfers and wages. Nothing to do with our lack of trophies, which would then be down to the manager.
Guyver
20/12/2017 13:21:00
0
Lot's of talk here about how much money we have and how we cannot compete. the fact is we finished second last season and since then we have performed markedly worse. Our recruitment as usual has been poor - all we have really done is replace like with like - we have upgraded with Sanchez over Wimmer but downgraded with Aurier over Walker. Whilst we cannot compete with the likes of Man City and Man U, we can with sensible decisions do a lot better. Firstly, selling the best right back in the league to a direct rival sends out the small club mentality message. If a player is adamant he wants to leave, you tell him that he has to go abroad but not to a direct rival. Secondly, we have made record premier league profits in the lat two years, this year will be even better (champions League money, improved Sky money, new commercial deal) so it is wrong to suggest that he can only have a zero net spend in any transfer window - Levy has said that the stadium build would not effect our transfer business. Incidentally, I wonder if Everton's wage bill is now higher than ours. there are other reasons for our decline of course, Wembley doesn't help and we have been hit quite badly by injuries - but then so have other clubs but I don't think we can blame a lack of resources on our appalling away performances against the big teams. That is down to Poch and the players
DoncasterHotspur
20/12/2017 14:10:00
0
The reason people regularly bring up money, is because it is the biggest indicator for "success". The more you spend, the better your chances of winning and the better you generally do. Its not an excuse, its a way of keeping things in perspective. We lack trophies in recent history for the same reason Bordeaux, Villarreal, Hoffenheim ect (6th richest clubs in their leagues) lack trophies. We don't invest enough in the team compared to our rivals.
Guyver
20/12/2017 14:34:00
0
Of one thing I’m fairly certain. If we had the services of Toby and Wanyama we would be about 7points better off and not having these conversations. Barkley for certain in January and 25 points from the last 10 games should see us in 3rd or 4th. Then back to the new WHL in August!!
jvd
21/12/2017 00:55:00
0
Guyver - well what are your expectations in terms of success then? We're a top 4 team - wouldn't you say that the logical next step for us has to be a trophy? We're the only team that has finished in the top 4 multiple times in recent years yet hasn't won a trophy. It's no good comparing us to Huddersfield - their definition of success isn't relevant for us. Our expectations should be at trophy level by now. Regarding my comment on Arsenal's team, I said we had a better 11, not a better squad.... Big difference for me. They're much better equipped to deal with multiple competitions. As for Birmingham and the likes, I'm not so sure I agree. I think there's a thrill to promotion too, and that's a hugely enjoyable time for fans. I would gladly trade our last 5 years with Leicester's, lower leagues included, for example. Staying 10 years in the PL and having nothing to show for it is less enjoyable than 5 years in the Championship, promotion, 5 years in the PL and a trophy, for me anyways. I also don't think that our failure to win anything recently can be pinned down to the manager solely. MP has to take some blame for poor squad management at times, poor tactical choices, etc. but a good chef is only as good as the ingredients he has at his disposal. Has the club's management consistently delivered deep squads and proper rotation options? Have we been able to attract the players on the manager's wish list? Failed transfers suggest otherwise.
BelgianSpur
21/12/2017 09:12:00
0
Agree with that 200% Doncaster.
BelgianSpur
21/12/2017 09:14:00
0
Guyver - it's also interesting that you bring up Bordeaux. If we are to take your word for it that they are indeed the 6th richest club in France, it's interesting to look at their trophy return in recent years. Bordeaux's last title was in 2009 (along with a LC double) and they won the French cup as recently as 2013. They have been in and out of Europe since, but this is more in line with what I'd expect from a club who's 6th down the pecking order. Not a perennial challenger for the title, but a trophy every once in a while. It just goes to show that we're not really punching our weight statistically, as I was saying earlier. As far as the other teams you list, I'd like to think that beyond Real and Barca, Valencia, Sevilla, Atletico, and Bilbao round out the top 6 in terms of money (ahead of Villarreal), and incidentally they've all won their league far more recently than we have. The same goes for Germany, where after Bayern and Dortmund, clubs like Wolfsburg, Schalke, Leverkusen and Munchengladbach largely outspend the likes of Hoffenheim (a lot of those clubs being backed by large companies). Again, all of those clubs have easily won titles more recently than us. We are an outlier.
BelgianSpur
21/12/2017 09:37:00
0
Gwann Guvyer..
Ossie
22/12/2017 14:22:00
1
BS, Bordeaux won 2 trophies since 2008/9, their version of the league cup and their version of the FA Cup in 2012/13. Im not counting their version of the community shield as a trophy.. So they've won 1 more cup than we have in that time period. Real, Barca , Sevilla, Atletico are La Ligas top 4 financially. If you want to put Bilbao 6th ahead of Villarreal , thats fine, but their last trophy was in the 80's, unless you count their "community shield" in 2015. We've won two League Cups an FA Cup and a UEFA Cup in that period, although going back to a time where money was less of a factor is a bit pointless. If Monchengladbach are the 6th richest in Germany, they also haven't won anything significant since the mid 80's. So where in world football do you find the 6th richest club in their league winning significantly more trophies than we've done in recent times? When you have five clubs richer than you, or willing to spend significantly more than you in your own league, then its incredibly difficult to win trophies. But this applies more so in the EPL, where the top 4 or 5 clubs are spending substantially more than anyone else, The graph/chart goes off the scale once you reach liverpool and above. You obviously agree with this, as you accept our squad is weaker than Arsenals for the reason that we are simply not willing/able to spend more.
Guyver
22/12/2017 15:04:00
1
With the relatively little that we have spent, to match and in your opinion surpass Arsenals 1st team, is not a sign of bad recruitment. That just doesn't make sense. If we were willing to spend more, we'd likely match their squad depth as well. As for your question of what my expectations are, under current circumstances, its the same as yours and most Spurs fans at the beginning of the season. Top 4 and a good cup run. We'd probably win the League cup more if we took it more seriously, but we'd be putting ourselves at a disadvantage by stretching our 1st team while our EPL rivals were sending out "strong" B teams. As important as money is in todays era, its no surprise our priority is always the EPL and CL, despite not really being likely to win either. Catch 22.
Guyver
22/12/2017 15:17:00
1
"As for Birmingham and the likes, I'm not so sure I agree." The proof is there for you to see. Look at the starting lineups for Bournmouth, Leicester and West Ham in the Quarter finals of the Carabao Cup. This is a quarter final, yet even the smaller clubs were playing weakened teams. None of them want to jeopardise their EPL form for the sake of a cup that no-one respects or values.
Guyver
22/12/2017 15:31:00
0
Interesting comments/discussions by all. Good to see zero slagging off though. Hope we buy a couple do not see it though. Merry Christmas all .
ro6ertj
23/12/2017 09:42:00
0
Whats the excuse for not winning the EL. Savile have dominated it in recent seasons why not spurs?, what financial constraints can you come up with for spurs lack of success in this tournament. Lol
palmover
23/12/2017 11:29:00
0
The "excuse" palmover, is that we, like most EPL clubs, were focusing on the EPL rather than the Europa league, and often put out B teams for the Europa. We don't have the squad depth the top 4 have. Even when Man Utd won it last season, they played a weaken side in the EPL after accepting they had no chance of finishing 4th. But don't think im speaking retrospectively. When we drew Dortmund in 2016, in the Europa, I posted the reaction of Dortmund fans and they were saying how dangerous we were, BUT, that we were in a title challenge with Leicester, while they were certain for 2nd place, but had no chance of finishing 1st in the Bundesliga, so could focus on the EL.br>
http://www.spurs.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7520379#comment-container

Read my post at "26/02/2016 14:36:00" even Dortmund fans were aware of the dilemma we faced.
Guyver
23/12/2017 15:51:00
0
Spurs are rich enough to win the E/L that is all i want to know, priorities are a management issue. Your full of excuses, do you work for the spurs Pr dept?
palmover
23/12/2017 21:40:00
0
They sound like excuses, to someone irrational and obsessively against Spurs and Pochettino for some unknown reason. The fact even Dortmund fans back up what im saying, proves im at least being objective.
Guyver
23/12/2017 23:05:00
0
Who cares what Dortmund fans think. Spurs need to win trophies for their fans and stop making excuse's. I don't go to matches but the fans that do pay up to 100pds per match to watch a team that is run by people who lack ambition and want to fleece them for every penny.
palmover
23/12/2017 23:39:00
0
Guyver - our last title was in 1961. Even winning in the 80's would be a heck of a lot more recently than us...
BelgianSpur
26/12/2017 11:48:00
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