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Spurs Find Vast Fortune.

Spurs Find Vast Fortune.

Money for Nothing.

Todays headlines are all to do with Money; according to the Daily Mail Harry is about to get a bumper pay-rise.


According to my source, there has been no discussion about an imminent new deal. Funnily enough, I know who I believe.

But the assumption could be sound, Poch has just said that the only way we sell Harry is if he asks for it, he said this to The Evening Standard

Harringay Council have got brave and signed a deal with mammoth property developer Lendlease to regenerate the area around the site of Tottenham Hotspur's new stadium in north London; I say brave, as their councillors are being picked off by Labours momentum group for not being left-wing enough and not being 'sound' Corbynista's and it's fair to say that the extreme left pressure group are said to have targeted a complete local party takeover, which if it happens, would most likely have scuppered the deal and may well complicate it in the future> a declaration that Harringay renames itself the Communist Republic of Tottenham and Soviet States would likely put off all investors - but such is Corbyn's destructive vision for Britain.

The Council and Lendlease are looking to regenerate the depressed under-invested area with the promise of a huge investment in 2,500 homes and 3,000 new jobs over the course of the project which will begin later this year. Of course, as in any regeneration project on planet Earth, let alone one of this size, it has attracted lots of criticism from local businesses and locals who live there and those simply jumping on another anti-capitalism bandwagon, but there are others who recognise that the area has been poorly run and an effective night-time no-go zone in some parts for decades.

The one big problem with the new stadium was no new tube station and as most of Tottenham's fans aren't drawn from the area anymore so transport links have been a red-hot issue for years. This deal will make all this happen, supposedly.

And to continue the Money theme The Soccerex Football Finance 100 which ranks the world's top teams based on both their playing and fixed assets, money in the bank, owner potential investment and debt, was published on Wednesday.

We're 5th in that global league., so according to some we've now got loads of money and can do whatever we like - the wrinkle in this assessment is that it takes into account your playing assets which skews our weighted ranking and means that we haven't suddenly found a gold mine under the old White Hart lane - it's above ground and running around at Wembley and unless we cash it in, it's means nothing.

But let's not kill a good story, money for nothing it is then. Levy must be brimming with pride this morning, either that or he had just found a way to prise a billion or so from down the back of Uncle Joes handmade Argentinian settees…

For those of you who like me, live, eat and die finance and analysis you can bore your elf to sleep and take pride in Daniel's stewardship by downloading the report here: http://mysoccerex.com/Soccerex_Football_Finance_100_2018.pdf

Now if only we had a bit of silver to top this silly report off with…



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:Spursex
Date:Thursday January 4 2018
Time: 12:00PM

Comments

0
Corbyn? Who did he play for again? I've heard he was a wiz on the left-wing and on his day would've given Bale a run for his money...
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 12:18:00
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Corbyn is an old never before tested crap manager who expects to be able to run amok with his spend spend spend and spend again approach and will bankrupt UK FC, destroy the economy of UK FC and then hand the running of the place over to handlers and mentors, the Russians. Personally, I wish we'd sell him to Euroland AFC, he'd soon turn them from a fraud ridden monster into an even bigger waste of money.
Spursex
04/01/2018 12:25:00
0
Politicians? I trust not one of them. Left, centre or right.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 12:27:00
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Probably right too - all a bit Harry Redknapp..
Spursex
04/01/2018 12:32:00
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As for the article. Tottenham is in great need of regeneration, better rail links, a general infrastructural makeover and a new lick or two of paint. Who knows if it'll be in the hands of the right people responsible for it or if it will be a roaring success? ... It's impossible to please everyone in this circumstances but change is constant and inevitable. For good and bad.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 12:50:00
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Spursex - didn't we just cash in on part of the gold mine by selling Walker for 45 million? Aren't there permanent rumblings about the potential of cashing in further (ie you implying an imminent Rose sale as recently as yesterday)? I'm all for dismissing skewed ways of counting money, but when there is a track record of selling top talent in recent years, why wouldn't we count that as a source of income? Isn't our academy so often lauded by several posters on here as a source of income at the very least? It's certainly not going to do anything to quash the idea that the club has riches at its disposal that are not being reivested in the squad.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 13:33:00
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This being said, if Levy was actually serious in wanting to reward Harry Kane in a way he deserves/he has earned, thereby solidifying his commitment to Spurs, I would be at the front of the line to praise him. I will believe it when I see it. But it would be a hugely welcome/positive development. That artificial, self-imposed wage cap has been holding us back for years.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 13:35:00
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BelgianSpur - The problem with your logic is that if you sell a player you generally need to replace him and I don't know how you would replace Harry Kane. Its like people boasting about the value of their house, fine but if you sell it you need somewhere else to live.
jod
04/01/2018 13:43:00
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BelgianSpur, we have NEVER had a 'wage-cap' as such, what we have always done is take a 'you get what you earn approach' to contracts, i.e. a base payment plus lots of performance and loyalty bonus's. There is an overall wage ceiling/target which is exactly in line with Premier league recommendations and guidelines, and their enforced capping of wage growth year on year.

I think what you are getting confused with is our seeming inability to accrue huge losses over the years in the pursuit of success, which would of course have to be funded by shareholders - prior to being taken private again and delisted I would attend every single AGM and the support for our financial policies by Shareholders (other than the main one - ENIC) would be overwhelming.
Is that what you are referring to?
Spursex
04/01/2018 13:48:00
0
The report is dodgy in another way in that it apparently factors in the wealth of the owners. The problem with this is that FFP is supposed to prevent rich owners subsidising clubs. City and PSG seem to be finding ways around it for the moment but it is biting to some extent. I don't know where this talk of a new tube station has come from. As far as I can see there is no such plan in place, a pity as a tube close to the ground would transform things.
jod
04/01/2018 13:50:00
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Fixed assets are different to variable assets and players are variable, trading profits have traditionally helped underpin both player acquisitions and the profitability of the club, although most fans still don't understand that apart from bonus's to directors all our profits have been ploughed back into club operations, in recent years that has helped fund the new training facilities/academy and of course the early costs of the new stadium project - until the project finance was put in place.
Spursex
04/01/2018 13:51:00
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Lendlease have signed a development deal with Haringey Council to regenerate the area around the site of Tottenham Hotspur's new stadium in north London. The company were named as preferred bidders back in the summer and the agreement has now been formally signed off with the promise of 2,500 homes and 3,000 new jobs over the course of the project which will begin later this year.Plans and images describe public spaces with shops and restaurants, a community park, library, community centre and a new Tube station that will help with getting fans to and from the new stadium once it has been opened. http://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/news/spurs-new-stadium-boosted-1bn-14110783
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 13:53:00
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Jod, sorry the tube part is still being discussed by TFL and is still in it's infancy, but lendlease are pushing heavily for it - I didn't make that clear.
Spursex
04/01/2018 13:54:00
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jod - I'm very happy to consider your logic, but tell me, when we sold Modric, which player did we sign to replace his production? Or Gareth Bale? There's a big difference between what one should theoretically do, and what the club has historically done. We have sold mansions and bought sheds to replace them.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 13:56:00
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The way I can't help but look at it when looking at Spurs' players wages. And, no matter what anyone thinks of Lewis/Levy/ENIC. When the players join and when they sign their contracts and then renew them (which most have done several times, these past few seasons), then they know full well what they will be getting and if they don't like it, they are the ones making the ultimate decision on whether to stay or to go.

Just 3 seasons ago, Harry was on less than 30 grand a week. Now, said to be a 120 grand. That is a huge raise whichever way we chose to look at it. It will increase more and within sensible THFC limits. We will not be paying him or anyone Messi and Ronaldo type money! Not yet anyhow. Not for a long while.

Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 13:58:00
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Eriksen, Son, Lamela and Dele are sheds? Who are the sheds exactly? :-) Did we finish 3rd and then 2nd with Bale and Modric in the team?
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:01:00
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Spursex - you may well be in agreement with how the club is run, but you should be aware that many other Spurs fans would be more than happy to hold shares of the club, and even pour personal money into the club if that's what it takes, if it in turn allowed the club more power in the transfer market. We can bang on about FFP all we want, but as jod readily admitted, clubs like City and PSG don't seem to give a ****. You seem to praise our incentive-laden contracts, and I see them as a liability. We have often given out contracts with bonus clauses which depend on team performance. Back when we had a liabilty at GK like Gomes, who probably cost us in the vicinity of 10 points every season, how did that stop our top performers from wanting to seek greener pastures? I'd like to see our top performers getting paid for their contribution to the team, regardless of where the team finishes. If Kane scores 30 goals and we still finish 14th, that doesn't take anything away from his individual performance. The fact that the bonus payments are linked to objectives out of the players' individual control is just another reason for them to look for clubs that will reward them for performing, no matter what. You also touch upon the compensation of our directors. How does the club justify Daniel Levy being the highest paid chairman in the PL? Does he have the track record of success to back it up? All interesting points for me.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 14:06:00
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Bonus and incentivised payments are paid to players at all clubs. It follows that the better a club does the more money is earn't and subsequently players are indeed rewarded. If we had finished near the relegation zone these past 2 seasons and no matter how many goals Harry had scored, of course it would be different.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:12:00
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When I last looked, Levy has never played in a cup final or London derby...
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:15:00
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HT - we finished in the top 4 twice and went to the CL quarters with Bale and Modric. While the current team has matched the domestic achievements, their performance in Europe has yet to be matched. As far as what we consider to be a shed, Erik Lamela has had 2 seasons with less than 10 appearances in the last 4 years. I rate his ability as much as anyone, but if he's never on the pitch, it's still a poor investment. Son took more than 1é months to start producing consistently. When we sold Bale, he was a dead certainty for 20+ league goals per season. Not exactly a n immediate, like for like replacement. You have to factor the timing of the deals, not what the players eventually become. Did we immediately replace the production of the players we sold, without missing a beat? I don't think anyone can claim that.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 14:17:00
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Yes, I know that. But we have improved so what is your real point in this. Teams inevitably miss a beat when top players are sold. It's how well and how quickly you build from there on and it hasn't taken long at all.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:20:00
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How long did Bale and Modric take to reach their highest peak with THFC? It certainly wasn't overnight. Harry has taken no lesss than 8 years!
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:23:00
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HT - that depends on how you define "not long at all". We Sold Bale in 2013, at a time when we were certainly in the conversation for a top 4 finish, and it took us 3 years to get back in it. That's 3 seasons. I happen to think that 3 seasons is quite a long time in the PL.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 14:24:00
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No, it's not a long time.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:25:00
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Anyway. We know we'll always disagree on all this until the Bales and Modric's come home. So I'm leaving it there. As much as I like a good debate with you....
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:28:00
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BelgianSpur, Yet again I totally agree with your posts on this thread. It amazes me that every measure of wealth and/or riches amongst football clubs, irrespective of how they are measured, is always shouted down and dismissed by those determined to portray us as poverty stricken and uncompetitive.
Frank
04/01/2018 14:29:00
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BelguimSpur, I'm not sure where I state I am in agreement with the way the club is run - I just stated that the vast majority of small shareholders that would attend the AGM were and voted as such. When the club were listed there were a number of Rights issues to raise funds, every issue was underpinned by ENIC i.e. they paid up when other shareholders didn't - and overall the number of small shareholders that did put their money where their mouth was/is - was utterly pathetic (I regularly did for each issue, but was one of less than 10% of the minority shareholders that did). So the purchasing power you speak of only really ever came from one source i.e. ENIC. As for FFP, ManC were fined £50 mill for their transgressions - not enough to stop them doing what they did, but that's UEFA's weakness again....same goes for PSG. Could Tottenham or it's shareholders go the same route - probably far too late now, and the new stadium might well make such maverick investments by oil-rich countries who own these clubs unnecessary and in light of the now tightened rules, also impossible. The performance clauses in player contracts both reflect personal performances and team results - most agents I know think that our contracts are some of the fairest in the land, but as we know we do not pay beyond our means and never will do under ENIC.

As for Levy's payments, I like you have found them over the years to be almost entirely unjustifiable, but then when the club has had financial affordability and sustainability so high up it's achievement list since the PL started, it's not surprising. twenty other 'big' clubs tried to buy success and they all virtually ended up committing financial suicide and now reside in the lower leagues - so the odds on getting it wrong are bigger than those who got it right....
Spursex
04/01/2018 14:30:00
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Frank. There is not one poster on here that pleads poverty. I certainly have never done so.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:32:00
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Jesus, how on earth could we afford some of the great players we have had and do have as it is, if we were poverty stricken, the top, top training facilities and the new stadium?
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:35:00
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BelgianSpur - I didn't say clubs like City and PSG said City and PSG. Chelsea by contrast seem to be hamstrung by FFP. The difference is City and PSG can manipulate commercial income, its effectively whatever they want it to be.
jod
04/01/2018 14:36:00
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For the record, I have always viewed Levy as getting more right than wrong, but I was the first to coin the phrase, penny wise, pound foolish - that said he was/is has always risked his own personal family money again and again - and whilst well of is millions an millions short of being a billionaire - the billionaire that owns ENIC shares only ever was backing levy, not Tottenham.
Spursex
04/01/2018 14:37:00
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Now, if we were fighting relegation year on year, have not had players such as Bale, Modric, Kane etc, no new stadium on the way and the third rate training facilities that Chelsea had not so long ago, maybe ENIC would never have had my backing.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 14:48:00
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Just the name alone should tell you the report is useless! What the hell does Soccer mean anyway?
jvd
04/01/2018 14:58:00
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Just two clubs have spent money the club did not have and succeeded and managed to not get themselves relegated and/or collapsed financially; Chelsea and Man City - of course there is one huge exception, Leicester - but even they are subject to a big FFP investigation amongst allegations of fraud as well and may yet be handed a massive fine/ban. Other big spenders have come and gone and left a trial of devastation behind them.
Spursex
04/01/2018 15:01:00
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It's the opposite to rugger!
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:02:00
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Spursex, either supporters of Spurs that disapprove of ENIC and Levy don't care about those other clubs that have miserably failed in over-financing gambles that didn't pay-off or they just choose to show their envy of the recent successes of the likes of both City and Chelsea. And in now well over a hundred years of the professional game of league football, their overall consistency of success is mostly recent. Coincidence or luck or not?
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:07:00
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Regarding the replacement of players sold. We sold Berbatov and failed to replace him, unless you count Frazer Campbell on loan as proper replacement. We sold Modric, VDV and Bale and spent the proceeds on "the magnificent 7" who all, with the exception of Eriksen, proved to be poor buys, so no our record of properly and adequately replacing players sold is not good. In addition our record on striker purchases is poor with Rebrov, Postiga, Bent, Soldado, Jannson and now Lloriente as examples of recent failures, all costing significant fees.
Frank
04/01/2018 15:07:00
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I do believe that Wembley added revenue to our club finances this season and the new stadium will continue the trend. It is very obvious to me that the top players will receive significant wage increases and possible increased performance bonuses also. As we must keep as many of them as possible. Players like Rose will be allowed to leave and maybe even Dier and replace them with better.
jvd
04/01/2018 15:08:00
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The club and the team are hardly failing. In the grand scheme of things There will always be individuals that are. It's the same for every single football club in existence. Always will be so.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:11:00
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Even the likes of Real will have a problem replacing players such as Ronaldo, Bale and Modric. Perhaps they will have to raid Spurs again for one or two.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:15:00
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I suppose it's the eternal debate of what a fan would consider more enviable. 10 years in the PL, a guaranteed top 10 finish, but no trophy, or 6 years in the Championship and 4 years in the PL, ()promotion to the PL, winning a significant trophy along the way, and the potential to drop back into the Championship/lower leagues after a few years (for example - not too dissimilar to Leicester's path in the last 10 actually). The question is there to be asked, but all I'm saying is that while the latter is a roller coaster of emotions, full of highs and lows, at least the fans have the highs to hold on to, several years later. We may not experience the lows, but I still think we're missing out on highs too.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 15:20:00
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I have no envy for any other club. I only have eyes for Tottenham..... Envy is a waste of time, energy and nothing but an emotional drain. I admire all winners (and Leicester), but my love of Spurs is enough to not be too down about the lack of trophies. It'll be all the more satisfying for me when we do eventually see the great rise to continued supremacy and Levy is one-day knighted for his services to football, Tottenham Hotspur and Tottenham N17. :-)
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:28:00
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Is there a game on tonight?
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:31:00
4
BS, can you only see highs if we win a trophy? Last season was some of the best football I have ever seen from a Spurs team. And we won an awful lot of football matches in the process. And that's the key for me. Each football match is an end in its own right. It's not a means to an end. So most weekends (and midweek) we had something to celebrate and enjoy, and take pride in. Yes, I'd love us to win a trophy. But a trophy is the icing on the cake. It's not the cake itself.
Gary Onedaysoon
04/01/2018 15:34:00
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Spursex - by all means forgive me if you thought that I was calling you a Levy fan boy. You have voiced your opinion about him many times and your input is valuable. You bring interesting perspective and it's enlightening (and also slightly disappointing/saddening) to read that a lot of the minority owners at the time were reluctant to put their money where their mouth was. I know what I'd do if I was ever in that position. Ownership of a football club should never be viewed as a profit-making investment. If anything, it's a hobby, but all hobbies cost money. Those owners expecting to make money should have instead picked wiser/more profitable investments (but that's another discussion altogether). Like you, I am also not saying that Levy is all bad or that he has gotten every decision wrong. There is definitely something to be said about his financial management of the club. However it's also undeniable that, whether it's him or Lewis behind it, the club's management under ENIC has not only been prudent, but entirely too conservative, and that has held us back at times. I have never advocated for a gung-ho approach. My point of view has always been that there surely was/is a better middle ground to be found. I also am very suspicious about how the club has presented things over the years. I'm not sure Levy is being entirely transparent about how the stadium financing is being presented. Of course I don't have access to the club's books so I can't know for sure, but I think the stadium is holding us back more than Levy lets on. And it that was to be the case, I just don't understand why that isn't clearly communicated. Anyways, we could again beat this to death, but in the end I don't think yet another report on how (supposedly) rich we are is really going to change anyone's opinion on Levy/ENIC. Either fans like them for the good they have done over the years, or loathe their ownership and point to the many shortcomings/mistakes over the years as fuel to their fire. It remains, and will continue to be a point of contention amongst Spurs fans until ENIC eventually sells up, I think.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 15:35:00
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Well said Gary. Exactly how I view it.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:37:00
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Gary - that's a perspective, and I respect it. Of course we all enjoy a win on the day. But the key for me is progress. After winning lots of football games year on year for several seasons now, how do you rate progress? We finished 2nd after finishing 3rd. Yet finishing 2nd doesn't get us anything that finishing 3rd didn't, ie we stil lget to play in the CL the following year. Over the last 2 years we've probably won as many, if not more games than any other team in the PL. Yet we have nothing to show for it. Accepting your logic, how do we progress from here? As far as I'm concerned, where we are today, the next logical step is a trophy.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 15:42:00
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"As far as I'm concerned, where we are today, the next logical step is a trophy". I speak for myself of course but I reckon most would agree with you on that one, BS.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 15:44:00
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BS, finishing 3rd two seasons ago from where we were previously is progress. Finishing 2nd last season with a record 86 points is progress. I consider last season's league performance to be a significant achievement even if we didn't win a trophy. You say we had nothing to show for it, but we had some superlative football nearly every week, particularly in the second half of the season. Those are all highs for me. And whatever happens in the future I'll remember the last two seasons as passionately as any trophy we've won in the past.
Gary Onedaysoon
04/01/2018 16:05:00
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Gary - which is all fair. I thought we played some mesmerising football back in 2011, when we comprehensively beat the likes of Inter and AC Milan. Positive, attacking football. Do I rate the football in the last 2 years higher? Probably not - most likely on the same level. In that respect, have we progressed, based on the quality of the football alone? That's a very subjective evaluation. Points totals aren't a good measure of progress for me, because their relative value is highly dependent on what that points total actually means in the context of the table. In the last 5 years, 86 points could have won the league much like it could have meant 3rd place (the year City pipped United to the title on the final day of the season, both Manchester clubs finished on 89 points). Anyways, we all have different view on what constitutes progress I suppose.
BelgianSpur
04/01/2018 16:26:00
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Sorry BS but you seem to be contradicting yourself a wee bit there. If you are saying that we regressed after Bale and Modric and 2011's CL 'success' etc, (and you did), then surely we have progressed in the past couple of seasons. Unless I misunderstand, of course. (?)
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 16:36:00
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A season of football is at one with itself and all clubs play 38 matches and each other, twice. It is a competition relative to the time it's played in. 2nd is 2nd and 3rd is 3rd etc.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 16:44:00
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I mean that as a competition it is by nature different every season and a clubs finishing point is relative to all the rest and how good or bad they all played throughout the course of it. If Spurs won the PL with the lowest of points total since it started will that be any less of an acheivement? ... Actually, knowing how some supporters see things, it probably would be criticised.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 16:49:00
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BS, if you don't consider points to be a valid measure of progress then surely the finishing position is? And 2nd and 3rd are our highest finishing positions in the EPL. Other than points and finishing position, what else is there? And I disagree that we comprehensively beat both Milan clubs through positive, attacking football. We lost the away leg to Inter 4-3 after being 4-0 down at half time. That it ended up 4-3 was because they completely took their eye off the ball. We beat AC Milan 1-0 over two legs. In the second leg at WHL we defended for the whole match. The Italians called it anti-football. The team of 2011 was great going forward but not a patch defensively on this current team. But anyway, this is off the original point I was making about you only being able to see highs in our football if we win trophies (which wasn't a criticism by the way).
Gary Onedaysoon
04/01/2018 17:09:00
1
It's funny sometimes how we perceive things differently. In our first CL season (10-11) we got only 62 points in the league. We drew 14 and lost 8 and only scored 4 goals once in a game in our league campaign. We went 2 rounds in the FA Cup and lost in the first round of the League Cup to Arsenal. We lost Woodgate for the whole season and King was injured a fair bit. For me, this was the season when I first realised how tactically inept Harry was with a load of miserable league performances. However, the CL run started with Pav's goal against Young Boys and Bale mesmerised us against Inter Milan. That was fun.

In many ways the 11-12 season was better. That's when we had that early season run of 10 out of 11 wins until we played Stoke and the ref Chris Foy had a bad day at the office. We were attacking teams from all directions with pace in that run and that is probably as good football I've seen from Spurs. However, in January we were simply awful and in one run of 9 league games got 5 points. We scrambled to 4th place only for Chelsea to win the CL. It was always a roller coaster ride under Harry !!!
muttley
04/01/2018 17:14:00
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I went to most home matches and a few away that season muttley and there were many poor performances along the way to go with some awful results. The 1st match losing against Young Boys away of all teams being a fine (or not so fine) example.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 17:35:00
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Can't really say I get the politics of this but as for Corbyn, well I think his intentions are better than some but like all politicans they are stupid and I don't trust any of them or even like politics.

Tell me how we can fund projects looking for another planet (probably to run to when we destroy this one) and yet we have food banks. Who the hell cares if there is another planet, same with a lot of projects, no political party has even used common sense and prioritised spending. It's a game they get well paid for at the expense of others. There is so much money in the world its unbelievable, but the problem is it isn't shared equally or used properly. when I leave this earth I have already decided to take a good pair of reading glasses because if I have to come back I want to read the small print on my contract for living on earth as a human because I for sure cannot fatham out the madness of the human race so there has to be something in the small print I missed this time because nothing makes sense to me when it comes to life on earth.
It'sME
04/01/2018 17:53:00
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It'sME... I have all the empathy in the world with you on that one. I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth and will probably pass on by without so much as a mere but tasty morsel sitting upon it.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 17:59:00
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But I'm doing good. I'm not greedy.
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 18:01:00
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As long as those goggles are a pair of Lily-white tinted ones...... You'll do just fine in the afterglow of the afterworld in that Great and beautiful White Hart Lane in the sky. And Hod is God and Jesus is a Tottenham coach and a Yid to boot!
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 18:25:00
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Here goes: #THFC: Lloris (C), Aurier, Sanchez, Vertonghen, Davies, Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane. #COYS
Hot Tottingham
04/01/2018 18:56:00
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Gary (15:34) ... Very well said.
Geofspurs
04/01/2018 23:27:00
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Well said Gary, saved me from typing ;)
Guyver
05/01/2018 10:24:00
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Also muttley. I remember that season, well. From January onwards (10-11) it was mostly depressing. We barely won a single game. The highlight of that season was the the game(s) against the 2 Milan clubs. Domestically, we were way below par.
Guyver
05/01/2018 10:55:00
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Of course in season 11-12, we also fell away at January. This was a standout feature of Harrys reign.
Guyver
05/01/2018 11:13:00
0
Gary - what exactly does finishing second bring that finishing 3rd didn't? You are either champion, directly qualified for the CL (places 2 and 3), qualified for the CL qualifiers (4th), qualified for the EL, mid table or relegated. Those are the only 6 tangible categories for me. Finishing 2nd or 3rd makes no difference in status, objectively. Much like finidhing 11th is no better than 15th. That's how I look at it, very rationally, anyways.
BelgianSpur
05/01/2018 19:18:00
0
BelgianSpur, subjectively speaking, how did you feel about last season compared to every other season you've been a Spurs supporter? Not everything has to be measured objectively. Support for a football team is ultimately a subjective experience. For me, last season was much more enjoyable, than 2008, where we won the League Cup under Ramos. I presume most fans would agree..
Guyver
05/01/2018 22:27:00
0
And my presumptions are based on the fact people rarely talk with pride about 2008, despite winning a Cup. Last season, we broke our EPL position and points total record. Surely that has some meaning..
Guyver
05/01/2018 22:30:00
1
BS, you've answered your own question at last. Clearly nothing other than winning a trophy can give you any sort of a high. Fair enough, if that's how you feel. Personally, as a fan, I have never viewed supporting Spurs as a rational activity, which I guess is why I find it much easier to enjoy, appreciate and remember our football, irrespective of whether it has led to a trophy.
Gary Onedaysoon
06/01/2018 06:45:00
0
Guyver - I enjoyed last season as much as I enjoyed the season before, to be honest. We played great games in both seasons, and the only difference, even in the table, can come down to just one game - the final day disaster against Newcastle in 2016. Had we won that game we'd have finished 2nd, so the margins are very small. That illustrates my point though. Very subjectively, even looking at just the football, can I really make a big difference between the 2 seasons? No. Do I feel we were even in 2017 than in 2016? Not really. Does the fact that we finished one place higher bring a great deal of satisfaction? No. The fact that we were in the CL for a 2nd consecutive season did, but we could have finished 3rd or won the EL and achieved that too. I will easily contend that Man U had a better season than us last year despite finishing many points and several places below us. After a while, entertaining football is only so much. We could play great football on our day and finish 6th. To take that next step and give fans a high they haven't had in so long, I feel only a trophy can do that.
BelgianSpur
06/01/2018 10:17:00
2
Well the difference between the last 2 seasons, was about 15 points. Thats quite a difference, although I didn't ask about comparing the last 2 seasons. I said, compare last season, to your entire experience as a Spurs supporter. Unless you were born in the 50's or 70's, you likely enjoyed last season, as much, if not more so than any other. 99% of football clubs will not win the EPL and they know this, so there are obviously varying degrees of enjoyment that do not include winning trophies. Winning a major trophy is simply the ultimate level of enjoyment, although im sure this can be matched by say, Swansea staying up on the last day of the season. As ive said in the past, its all relative and ties in with your level of expectations.
Guyver
06/01/2018 10:33:00
2
Correction, enjoyment is "often" relative and based on your expectations. There are some who are unreasonable and get little to no enjoyment out of finishing in one of the highest positions the club has achieved in its 130+ year history. I think that was the 5th or 6th time we've finished in the top 2. As I said, its all subjective anyway. To each their own.
Guyver
06/01/2018 10:42:00
0
Then by that token BS. Playing great, exciting football and finishing 6th is no better than playing poor and boring football and finishing 6th? I know what I'd prefer considering I am addicted to watching Spurs and have been since the 1970's. Only in retrospect, do the stats actually mean anything. I can enjoy a great football match that we have gone on to lose. But be bored senseless by a match that we won. In real time during the 90 minutes, I could feel completely cheated by the football on display but satisfied after that we gained the 3 points. It still doesn't make a boring match any the better to have witnessed in play. Worse still, if one was actually there at the stadium.
Hot Tottingham
06/01/2018 14:18:00
0
We may as well not bother watching any matches and only ever pay attention to the fact that we either won drew or lost..... "Yes, I recall, we had a great season that year and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing all the fine results in the media and finding out in May that we had won the FA cup. Apparently it was the most boring of all FA cup finals and I'm so pleased that I didn't watch it. But hey, we won"!
Hot Tottingham
06/01/2018 14:31:00
0
I'd rather win and play boring football than play great and finish mid table. In Spurs terms, I'd take AVB over Sherwood any day of the week again. But as Guyver said, to each his own. All other things being equal, style is a nice plus. But not at the detriment of results, for me.
BelgianSpur
06/01/2018 16:32:00
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