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Can Sean Make Georges Gorgeous?

Can Sean Make Georges Gorgeous?

If the rumours are correct, Georges Kevin-N`koudou will join Burnley today in a season long loan.

Based on the assumption that the player either isn`t deemed good enough or ready for Spurs, it seems a sensible move and one that either gives the boy (hopefully) minutes to build up his confidence and game or proves once and for all that he isn`t right for us and we move him on.

A domestic move seems sensible if we retain hope that he can become a valuable Spurs player. Much in the way I believed that we should have pushed Vincent Janssen into joining Brighton over leaving for Turkish delights, this preps him for the rigours of our domestic game and though never a definitive indication of quality, success at a club like Burnley with a great dressing room and team ethic, cannot do too much harm. Surely....

Written by Oxfordspur



Click here to join in the debate on the club forum.

Writer:OxfordSpur
Date:Tuesday January 9 2018
Time: 8:06AM

Comments

1
We sign a static centre forward ,whose main asset is heading the ball. N'koudou is the only winger at S purs who was signed to supply crosses to the aforementioned centre-forward. To cut the wage bill Levy does his usual lend them out trick in January.If we have a joined up recruitment policy at Spurs I am unable to see it [or N'koudou for that matter].
Greavesaboveall
09/01/2018 09:53:00
0
Greavesaboveall - You obviously have a much higher opinion of N'koudou than I do, or maybe just like twisting things to have a go at Levy. Right now he's just not good enough, maybe he never will be. Still I have a high opinion of Sean Dyche and if he wants N'koudou on loan then maybe there is a decent player in there somewhere. If so let's hope Dyche can bring him out.
jod
09/01/2018 10:08:00
0
I'd much rather such players are loaned out to a PL club than abroad. He gets game time against teams that he would normally play whilst at Spurs....but at least PLAY!. So, that's Poch's early business concluded then!
Critical_Spur
09/01/2018 10:12:00
0
If this is true, and even if it's not, what is the point of holding on to a player for a season and a half if he's hardly ever being played. Just sell him.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 10:16:00
3
Jod,are you saying Dyche is a better coach than Poch? I happen to like wingers but Poch doesn't. He sold Townsend & Lennon. Then our fastest wing-back Walker. He bought N'jie ,hardly played him then swapped him for N'koudou,who he has hardly played. You say you don't rate him-I've never seen him! Do you have a flat overlooking the training ground? The TV pundits all say that we lack width & our counter-attacks are painfully slow because we have no pace on the flanks. I'm not merely having a go at Levy ,Jod [although I do enjoy that] I just think we have a major problem at Spurs with lack of pace & width, & it's not just me saying it.
Greavesaboveall
09/01/2018 10:27:00
0
Players only get to play regularly when they are on loan if they are picked to play and, this doesn't always necessarily happen. When Kane went to Norwich he barely played. In the same season he end up mostly on the bench with the Foxes. When Pritchard was recently loaned to WBA, he played just twice before being sold on to Norwich. In fact he spent most of his Tottenham career playing elsewhere.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 10:30:00
0
May be he's got his family up norf and wants to be near his mum.
Critical_Spur
09/01/2018 10:34:00
0
It would be ironic if he helps Burnley to finish in 4th place & we finish 5th.
Greavesaboveall
09/01/2018 10:59:00
0
Ironic but highly unlikely. :-) He can help them to finish above the Gooners.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 11:03:00
0
I suppose it's a win-win situation. Right now GKN doesn't seem to have much of a future at Spurs and his value is limited. We'd struggle to recoup what we paid for GKN at present time. If he goes to Burnley and doesn't play (because he can't crack the 11), I don't think it's going to hurt his value any further. It'll just solidify the idea that he isn't good enough and he'll be sold in the summer. If he does play, but badly, it's the same conclusion really, and he'll be sold for what we can get. However, if he does play and play well, it will either rebuild some value ahead of a more lucrative move in the summer, or give him a future at Spurs. We really have very little to lose and everything to win. Personally, I don't think he's ever going to come back to Spurs, but I hope that GKN can make a name for himself and establish himself as a PL player, for his sake. Probably not at top 6 level, but he may yet make a name for himself at a mid table club.
BelgianSpur
09/01/2018 11:06:00
0
Greavesaboveall - Certainly tactically I rate Dyche ahead of Poch, both are great motivators. I actually think Dyche is currently the most under rated manager in the premier league and would be managing a bigger team if not for the prejudice against English managers. The question with Poch and wingers is why would he buy them if he never intended to play them ? It seems much more likely they just aren't living up to his expectations.
jod
09/01/2018 11:08:00
0
N'koudou seemed to try too hard when given a few minutes on the pitch. He must now be completely demoralised with training knowing you have no chance of playing. I think only judging a player during training can be misleading. Some players say that Dembele is a beast and the best at the training ground. but he is rarely the best in a real match. Also it appears that after a break between games on return our team performance is worse - due to over confidence, match practice, bad habits picked up at training against mates or what ? Josh Onomah might be an example who probably does ok training but lacks the Dele Alli attitude and work rate in a real match!
camper
09/01/2018 11:14:00
0
Dembele has many times been the best Spurs player on the pitch. Maybe not this season but certainly in the past two seasons. ..... Surely it has to be in training that a player needs to be assessed as to whether or not to play him more regularly if and when he does get to play in a competitive match,he doesn't then impress.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 11:20:00
0
Jod, I agree with all you say here except that Spurs are more enjoyable to watch. Dyche could be another Moyes,very good at setting up average players to defend well & stifle the opposition but can they produce flowing ,exciting football with talented players? Moyes failed dismally at Utd & I feel Dyche would be similar. My other point,does it make sense to weaken our squad every year after Xmas? We seem to miss our goals every year because Harry,Eriksen & Dele run out of puff by the end of the season.Against the weaker sides we should be rotating more & that's where N'koudou would be useful.Yes,No?
Greavesaboveall
09/01/2018 11:23:00
0
It's not just about an individuals raw talent and/or ability to train hard anyway. It's also a lot about how they can follow tactical instructions and work within the unit. Or fit in with their team mates. In this respect it's a misnomer to be calling players like N'Koudou wingers as such. If he can't adapt to the team tactics and be more flexible and willing to learn a new coaches methods, then it will not always work out for them. And, it really isn't such a simple task to know this in advance of them joining. It could also be down to various other personal reasons. Or a combination of many things. Not being able to settle in a new country or adapt to a new and very different culture, language, league etc.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 11:32:00
0
I don't want to dismiss Sean Dyche's achievements, he's doing very well. But as GAA said, Tony Pulis, Alan Pardew and other PL managers of the sort have all done well at various points, but never done quite enough to be trusted with big jobs. Allardyce, Hodgson and Moyes were, and failed miserably. Another name of a young manager who looks decent, but there is no way of knowing how he'd do at a bigger club: Eddie Howe.
BelgianSpur
09/01/2018 11:33:00
0
Greavesaboveall - Its the old story, a manager has to make the best of what he's got. Since Dyche has always had to work on a shoestring he's never had the option to play "flowing, exciting" football. But nevertheless you know he couldn't do it, how ? The truth is you have no way of knowing, you're just giving vent to your prejudices. Even Moyes at United wasn't as bad as you make out. He inherited a poor team and was given little money to spend. Once he was fired Van Gaal was given money and did just as badly. Mourinho has spent another fortune and done better but is still whining that he needs to spend a lot more.
jod
09/01/2018 11:34:00
0
Greavesaboveall, We thrashed the Foxes and Hull 6-1 and 7-1 respectively in our final 2 PL matches last season. With Harry pipping Lukaku on the last day to win the GB.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 11:38:00
0
jod - Eddie Howe and Mark Hughes play flowing, exciting football with the players they have, and on a budget. Their footballing philosophy is much more positive and doesn't solely rely on being hard to beat. That's the difference.
BelgianSpur
09/01/2018 11:40:00
0
I meant that in respect of both yours and jods comments. We improved in the 2nd half of last season and we didn't run out of steam. We reached an FA cup semi final and finished 2nd in the PL. Earlier in that season many VS posters were saying much the same as they have done this season. That we'll be lucky to reach the top 4.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 11:44:00
0
If he's good or not ,what did we see in him when we bought him, now a players like him and others need to be playing consecutive games it's only way we can judge him,
123spurs
09/01/2018 11:45:00
0
...And yet, Hughes finds himself unemployed yet again. These managers nearly always initially do well at a club but often end up going backwards.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 11:48:00
0
BelgianSpur - You answered your own point. Dyche is a more successful manager than either Hughes or Howe. Making the best of what you've got is not defined by the type of football you play. Its defined by how well you do with the resources at your disposal. That's measured by league position and cup performances. The classic example was Pullis at Crystal Palace where he completely changed his normal style to fully utilise Zaha and Bolassie's pace on the wings. In normal circumstances of course attacking players tend to be more expensive than defensive ones so poor clubs have fewer good ones.
jod
09/01/2018 11:52:00
0
Most managers last less than 3 years with their clubs before the dreaded vote of confidence then the axe. Fergy & Wenger are the exceptions . I hope Poch lasts longer but fans are notoriously fickle & chairmen won't take the blame if the wheels start wobbling. It's like a fairground carousel, with the same old jockeys riding around in circles,until they fall off one horse then jump back on another. Hughes will probably take over Bournemouth & Eddie Howe take over Southampton.One things for certain 3 clubs will go down whichever jockey is riding them. Giddyup!
Greavesaboveall
09/01/2018 12:00:00
0
Greavesaboveall, we won 13 of our last 14 games last season, including some 1 sided thrashings like 7-1 vs Hull and 6-1 vs Leicester. That is the opposite of running out of puff. I thought we put that "Pochs teams always run out of steam" nonsense to bed..
Guyver
09/01/2018 12:04:00
0
jod - Eddie Howe and Mark Hughes both finished above Sean Dyche last year. And the year before, given that Burnley wasn't even in the PL. If league finishes are the evaluation for how good a manager is, how do you explain that? Just because Dyche has known relative success this year by being hard to beat, doesn't make him a good manager. Let's see him do it over several years, like the others I mentioned. Right now he's just a flash in the pan.
BelgianSpur
09/01/2018 12:06:00
0
Greavesaboveall. It is crazy... However Hughes did do very well with Stoke but so far this season not so well at all and they have just been knocked out of the FA cup by Coventry. So it usually is about obvious improvement when assessing a manager these days. Whether it is for the Champs or for relegation battlers. And MP has improved Spurs in his time.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 12:09:00
0
Sorry, missed your comments HT.
Guyver
09/01/2018 12:10:00
0
That's okay. At least I know someone else noticed how well we actually did last season :-)
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 12:14:00
0
Burnley are more likely to play counter attacking football and N'Koudou has pace. Even if he sets the world on fire in a Dyche system, that is no guarantee that he can do it in a Poch system. Clearly something isn't working with N'Koudou. When I first saw him I thought the plan was to mould him into more of a Danny Rose style wing back. That would have been useful for this squad. Clearly he hasn't hit the mark further forward whilst not getting many opportunities. Let's see what happens.
muttley
09/01/2018 13:25:00
0
He sold Walker because he has no choice, Walker wanted out, do you keep the unhappy player or get 50m+ for him in reference to the loan it makes sense, I like him, he seems level headed and committed ..get him to burnley give him game time, and he will come good ..l I long to see him as a regular at Spurs .. he's got all the attributes to be a success at Spurs just needs game time ... now let's get sissoko gone.
E17YID
09/01/2018 14:09:00
0
...But Sissoko imo has done so much better than N'Koudou has when he's played. :-)
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 14:12:00
0
Burnley are a strange choice for me. From what I've been reading most of GK's issues seem to be with Poch's fitness regime. But Burnley are among the fittest, if not the fittest, team in the league, so he'll face the same problems.
Gary Onedaysoon
09/01/2018 14:12:00
0
E17YID, even if the club wanted to, they can't get rid of Sissoko unless he wants to go. He's getting regular game time now and the World Cup is looming in the summer, so I don't think he's going anywhere soon.
Gary Onedaysoon
09/01/2018 14:18:00
0
It's now been confirmed that Georgie boy has indeed been loaned to Burnley. I hope he gets his chance to shine and does well of course. Good luck lad.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 14:33:00
0
BelgianSpur - Dyche has got Burnley promoted twice. After the first one they took a decision to invest much of the premier league windfall in improving their infrastructure. The fact that having got relegated Dyche was able to bring them back stronger says a lot about him in my book. By contrast Hughes has done nothing to improve Stoke from the Pulis days.
jod
09/01/2018 14:35:00
0
Hughes initially did improve Stoke a lot in getting them 9th in his first season. The highest League finish for them since the 70's I think. Then 9th two more seasons running if I recall. However last season they went backwards and further retreated in this one.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 14:47:00
0
jod - Pulis got Stoke to the PL, finishing 2nd in the Championship in 2007. From 2008 to 2013, Stoke finished between 12th and 14th in every single one of of Pulis' seasons in charge (albeit with an FA Cup final appearance, which they lost). Then Hughes took over, and the club finished 9th 3 seasons in a row and 13th last year. For a manager who has not been able to improve Stoke according to you, Hughes has led Stoke to consistently higher finishes than Pulis ever did, this season excluded. You either under rate Hughes as a manager, over rate Pulis, or both. As for Dyche, we'll see where he finishes the season, and how long his "success" lasts. But there is so far nothing to suggest he is any more than a Tony Pulis, who was capable of leading his team to a top 10 finish every once in a while, but no more.
BelgianSpur
09/01/2018 14:51:00
0
Hughes also did a fine job at Blackburn, way back. It landed him his job with Man City. He did alright with them but they weren't consistent enough and they quickly replaced him with Mancini..... Still, it's Dyche that is now responsible for Georges progress and not the unemployed Mark Hughes...
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 15:05:00
0
I agree Gary, but, all MP has to say is yo won't be playing first team football p, your best off going out on loan or a perm deal ... sissoko, I despise .. only looked good against AFC Wimbledon ... because they are just a tad below his level .... let's hope he goes still 3 weeks left.
E17YID
09/01/2018 15:35:00
0
Decent player, unfortunate not to be given more chances for us, I hope and believe he will do well at Burnley.
Guyver
09/01/2018 15:41:00
0
E17YID, you've still got to find someone willing to pay his wages. And the fact that Poch is playing him more suggests he's happier with him now than he was last season.
Gary Onedaysoon
09/01/2018 15:51:00
0
And has poch improved us, 2nd and 3rd because likes of arsenal Chelsea and pool were poor now look they have improved and look where we are ? Fightening for 4th
123spurs
09/01/2018 16:21:00
0
123spurs, the likes of Chelsea, Arse and Pool haven't improved. we're just poor this season... see, we can all play that game.
Guyver
09/01/2018 16:30:00
0
When were they poor, 123? Arsenal finished above us 2 seasons ago and Chelsea were last seasons champs. ... 123, we are in the last 16 of the CL and 6 points from 2nd in the PL. We are also in the 4th round of the FA cup. The season is far from over. I can't speak for how this season will end. I can only go by the past 3 seasons and yes MP has most definitely improved the team in that time.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 16:31:00
0
...and just 3 points behind Pool
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 16:34:00
0
See this is where the winning a trophy is everything obsession falls short if that is supposed to be our only proof of improvement. What if we do finish where we now sit in the PL but go on to win the FA cup? Meanwhile, if we so much as draw a match and then don't that day improve on our PL position, folks then start saying Poch ain't up to it and yet we still could indeed to go on and win a cup. It's a tough call for managers these days and no matter the club.
Hot Tottingham
09/01/2018 16:48:00
0
The question that must be asked once again following on from Soldado, N'Jie, N'Koudou, Jannson, Sissoko, and seemingly Lloriente is who scouted them and agreed to sign them, and why. Did we know what we needed and wanted, or were those involved totally clueless as none of these players have had a positive influence on the team and have proved to be money misspent.
Frank
09/01/2018 18:13:00
0
Can't for the life of me understand why we brought him when we supposed to have some young talent in our youth set up if he wasn't going to play. Good luck to him we may finally see how good he actually is or whether it's another poor buy
It'sME
09/01/2018 20:09:00
0
It'sMe, what I can't figure out is why we have to loan out players to find out how good they are?. It's fine if we are talking about academy players. But seriously has any of the loanees under Poch come back to improve us?...in fact have they even come back?! Jannsen out, Now N'Koudou, Onomah (Villa, with mixed reports), that lad that went to Rangers (rainbow flicks) was praised for a short while, now I have no idea where he ended up, other academy players were actually shipped out as permanent sales. Since Winks, there has been no further young promotions. KWP only just got a game. So, a 12 mill GKN, 18 mill Jannsen, 12 mill N'Jie. X mill Yedlin, ...I am sure there are more. One has to remember, while these players are out on loan, our team has moved on to a different level. So, imo, based on record under Poch, I see this another one way ticket for N'Koudou.
critical_spur
09/01/2018 20:31:00
0
CS. That was Nathan Oduwa we loaned to Rangers. He was sold to a Slovenian club early last year.
Hot Tottingham
10/01/2018 07:56:00
0
That's why I don't believe betting everything on the academy is the right way to go. It's hit and miss and can't be relied on to consistently strengthen the 1st team. No academy in the world can do that once the club is at a certain level (which we've reached now). The policy of buying young, promising players is equally as risky and one has to ask if given our success rate, we wouldn't be better off buying 1 or 2 "sure bets" rather than 6 or 7 promising players who may or may not fulfill their potential. I also believe that our fans have the tendency to over rate/over hype our academy products just because they're from the academy, (which is normal to a certain extent). It’s like we are wishing so hard that academy player X is going to be the next Kane or Rose that we forget where those players are today and how much they can contribute for the time being.
BelgianSpur
10/01/2018 09:06:00
0
HT - "See this is where the winning a trophy is everything obsession falls short if that is supposed to be our only proof of improvement. What if we do finish where we now sit in the PL but go on to win the FA cup?" I actually believe that for a certain type of player, that will actually convince them to stay more than finishing in the top 4 with no trophy would. Once you have played in the CL, you can cross that of your bucket list. Winning silverware is an entirely different item on the list. We've shown in the last 2 years that if we prioritise the league, we're probably good enough for top 4. We've also seen recently that our squad remains thin when it comes to dealing with multiple competitions. We still have to pick our battles, it seems. Being in the CL a 3rd year running would certainly appeal to players outside the organisation and make the club more attractive for any transfer target out there, but for the Kanes, Allis, Eriksens of this world, winning the FA Cup would probably mean more to them personally, given what they have (and haven't) already experienced with the club so far.
BelgianSpur
10/01/2018 09:11:00
0
Agree with B.S.
palmover
10/01/2018 09:27:00
0
BelgianSpur. I agree with most of that. But I wasn't referring to how the players may view it . It's the attitude of some (many) supporters of football (and not just Spurs followers), that I had in mind. And it came from 123's post that disputed my earlier comment that was simply about MP improving Spurs in his (short) time at the club.
Hot Tottingham
10/01/2018 10:15:00
0
GKN wasn't really given a chance at the club. After a fairly long injury he usually came on occasionally for about ten minutes in a game, which is no time at all to make your mark. to me he did well enough in the even more occasional games when he had a longer run. As has been said elsewhere I think Poch's aversion to out and out wingers lies at the root of it. Which is odd when you consider that the attacking success of the best team in the PL, Man City, is based on having a pacey winger on each flank to open up the opposition. Having at least one in our ranks as an option when we come up against parked buses should be a no-brainer.
Stan Rosenthal
12/01/2018 17:38:00
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